Guild Wars 2

Batlav.6318:

Torment deals same dmg for both moving and standing
even the tooltip does not show difference nor the tests i did

It ticks twice per second while moving so it might be hard to see.

Yes I cba to edit nor do decent quality but it should deliver the point well enough.

Just food for a thought.

Confirmed. I’m glad its fixed even if it took quite a bit time. Helps wvw and pve survival by alot.

spoj.9672:

Mammoth.1975:

spoj.9672:

Im tempted to post up some builds for the team comp and exact tactics, but I still wouldnt trust casual necro players to do it properly.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRBIbhG2IjW6elmxG9eCA6Ru46c0jjXmZqClD-j0xAYrioRT+DdyrIasthioxqrxUuER127ioVLFQEjBA-w

What would you change on that? I’d be interested in trying this out with some friends and since I know almost nothing about pve I’d love some advice.

That is the exact build id use on 3 of the necro’s. The gate controller necro would run 30/10/0/0/30 for stability.

Still not sure about elites though. If lich really is bad scaling in cof due to downscaling then i guess it has to be flesh golem.

There is always option to lich+jagged horror mark+vulnerability mark on slaver before he goes hostile. It might even be better than flesh golem.

Softspoken.2410:

Targuil.3741:

May I add something to putrid mark? It doesn’t actually trigger combo field twice, it triggers it only once, when it hits a foe in a field. The other finisher is just a visual bug which shows on screen but actually does absolutely nothing. It appears when you put putrid mark on a field. You can easily test it by using well of blood on yourself and blasting it with putrid mark. “Area retaliation” pops up, but no retaliation was given that day. Do it again with a monster and you get combo finish pop twice, but only get once the effect.

I recall specifically testing this and getting double the retaliation I usually get with a bone minion. I’ll check it again though.

To be completely honest, I’m not sure if enemy triggers it, would it then cause double effect? But in any case, when not triggered, the putrid mark does not give proper finish even though it says it does.

May I add something to putrid mark? It doesn’t actually trigger combo field twice, it triggers it only once, when it hits a foe in a field. The other finisher is just a visual bug which shows on screen but actually does absolutely nothing. It appears when you put putrid mark on a field. You can easily test it by using well of blood on yourself and blasting it with putrid mark. “Area retaliation” pops up, but no retaliation was given that day. Do it again with a monster and you get combo finish pop twice, but only get once the effect.

RashanDale.3609:

Softspoken.2410:

RashanDale.3609:

As far as i know, the DPS of lich is not rly higher.
The insane amount of bonus-power you get is countered by the abysmal scaling of lich’s autoattack and the slow attack speed.
Also, Lich form seems to be a bit bugged when youre downscaled or in dungeons (or something like that, i dont know it exactly and i never used it in CoF1.).

When you’re in Lich Form (And I think also in Plague Form) you lose the stats from your weaponry, but not your armor.

I have considered the weapons. aswell as the bonus stats from traitlines.
Look at the screenshot; I had the exact same amount of power when i was in lich form and when i was COMPLETELY naked in Lich form.
Just tested it again in bloodtide coast and Cof Explorable (the screenshot is made in CoF):
when youre downleveled and a Lich, the power-stat on ALL your equipment is not taken into account.

It’s more about the transformations capping the stat values they affect based on level if it’s below lvl80. See, it happens to your precision and vitality too, but in lesser extend as you dont reach the cap with your equipment. Lich does not affect your toughness so that difference is just your equipment.

Softspoken.2410:

RashanDale.3609:

As far as i know, the DPS of lich is not rly higher.
The insane amount of bonus-power you get is countered by the abysmal scaling of lich’s autoattack and the slow attack speed.
Also, Lich form seems to be a bit bugged when youre downscaled or in dungeons (or something like that, i dont know it exactly and i never used it in CoF1.).

When you’re in Lich Form (And I think also in Plague Form) you lose the stats from your weaponry, but not your armor.

Edit: I think the bonus power might only be enough to match dagger’s auto-chain, but Lich form gives about 40% additional crit rate. I’m not sure how relevant that is to a full berzerker set-up (It’s not like you’ll have many more opportunities to sacrifice precision for power / prowess) but it’s still something to factor in.

On a larger balance scale, it’s also a 1200 range piercing attack, so that’s pretty great. But if all we care about is single-target damage, dagger makes a strong case.

Even if you take your weapon off and compare lvl 79 lich to lvl 80 lich, you’ll notice huge differences in berserker’s gear. Easy way to test this: Go to Malchor’s leap between two temples, find the spot where your level scales from 80 to 79. Then compare your stats with weapon on/off. Then go to lich and compare them with weapon on/off. Do it first without any traits. Then put 30 in spite and notice the VERY interesting results. What happens there, happens with every single transformation skill, though they arent so noticeable unless you min/max stats they boost.

About lich critting: While it is true you can get 40% additional crit rate and it’s great, you can still reach ~80-100% with fury easily, depending on warrior banners and possible sigil stacks and food used. But true, if you minmaxed for lich, you’d want as much power (which sadly scales poorly with lich), crit damage and damage traits as possible.

I also agree that lich is great for situations when you don’t have/want to use DS, but need to be in ranged combat. both of them do huge, consistent ranged single target damage with piercing.

Now that would be an actual reason to trait there. I actually thought about similar scaling without it being bound to a trait, but this should work just as well.

Just a note: SR grandmaster minor does not give 5% extra damage over 50% lifeforce. It gives 20 power per 20% lifeforce, which means 100 power at full lifeforce. (Bugged or bugged tooltip, cant tell)

Another thing to note: When buffed with high might, lich’s dps will be lower than dagger’s against single target after wells stop ticking in lich (i’m not even counting flesh golem here). This is because of lich’s autoattack has low base co-effiecient boosted by extra power. Boosting it further does not yield as good results as boosting dagger.

Also, why is nobody considering 30/15/0/0/25 or 30/25/0/0/15. Those bring a good balance between crit rate and crit dmg and grant you the most dps giving traits from the traitlines.

spoj.9672:

Targuil.3741:

spoj.9672:

Our cof speed run was awful btw. Ghastly claws doesnt do enough damage to be worth while when your forced to axe auto attack or lifeblast until you switch back to dagger. This trait change might make the burst on axe ok when the target is under 50% hp but it will probably still be less dps than dagger + locust swarm.

I may be wrong, but assuming 14 second cooldown on reaper’s touch on focus (traited), and it hitting the foe three times, makes it much more desireable for dps purposes than mildly hitting locust swarm. Yes it hits 10 times, but one reaper’s touch will do more damage in addition to vulnerability than locust swarm does in its whole duration. It would, however, decent option for swiftness even though it constantly puts you in combat just by being close to enemies.

Locust swarm crits for 600 up to 1200 damage and provides low radius aoe. Makes it very good dps because it adds dps while you are doing the dagger auto attack chain. Also means you should trait for warhorn skill cooldowns. You can have both though. Take dagger and warhorn and then put a focus in the second weapon set. When you swap weapons it wont interupt the auto attack on the dagger. Same principle was used on the axe/mace axe/axe warrior build when that was popular.

I haven’t experienced anything over ~600 damage crits under normal circumstances, though that may be I haven’t used it extensively with might stacks. Just going by tooltip damage, in full ascended berserker build with ruby orbs, it should be around ~158, times 10, meaning 1580. For reapers touch, the numbers are 595, times 3, meaning 1785, plus vulnerability. We should also take into account that locust swarm has long casting time, which could be used to use dagger 1. Whether this is worth it or not… depends on locust swarms true casting time with aftercast and if low enough to make it worth it to cast (<1s+0,41s) and whether the target will survive it’s whole duration. To make a comparison: with same amount of power, my whole dagger chain does 2465 tooltip damage over 2,2 seconds.

Also to note: To attain the highest possible damage with dagger 1 in solo situation: Don’t ever interrupt dagger 1 chain, only cast something else after completing it.
Try to time your vulnerability spikes with DS fury flashing and possible wells/BiP to gain multiplicative benefit of all at the same time.
Flashing in DS for fury and enfeebling blood does NOT interrupt dagger 1 chain.

E: Corrected firstly incorrect numbers due to annoying equipment bug.

spoj.9672:

Our cof speed run was awful btw. Ghastly claws doesnt do enough damage to be worth while when your forced to axe auto attack or lifeblast until you switch back to dagger. This trait change might make the burst on axe ok when the target is under 50% hp but it will probably still be less dps than dagger + locust swarm.

I may be wrong, but assuming 14 second cooldown on reaper’s touch on focus (traited), and it hitting the foe three times, makes it much more desireable for dps purposes than mildly hitting locust swarm. Yes it hits 10 times, but one reaper’s touch will do more damage in addition to vulnerability than locust swarm does in its whole duration. It would, however, decent option for swiftness even though it constantly puts you in combat just by being close to enemies.

youlostthegame.8102:

SJWhat.9237:

Yes but too bad necro axe still hits like a feather duster. I don’t think it will matter much.

This guy thinks that all Zerker necros use the #1 ability instead of life blast and dagger #1 lol. In the Necro CoF speed run, all but 1 person used axe as their main weapon.

If that’s true, they have alot to improve.

It was veteran risen giant, and 40 seconds is a snail speed for it. With dagger wells or dagger minions I easily got below 30 seconds but I dont remember the exact time though. Would be even faster now that focus is fixed.

1/3 of the others’ downed health combined with zero 100% sure bailout invulnerabilities/blinks means if you get ran over by the zerg in fight they get a free rally.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Enferian.2705:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Here have a blast finisher on a mark.. that an enemy has to activate.. lol..

The blast finisher activates twice on putrid mark. First when u lay the mark donw and a second time when the mark is activated.
Just though i should clarify this.

Can i blast someones field with it?

Visually putrid mark activates on a field without enemy, but its only visual. There is no effects whatsoever. You can try well of blood+putrid mark on yourself and you see “area retaliation” pop up and nothing happens. If it triggers on enemy on a field, it shows 2 activations visually, but in reality only the trigger one gives effects.

jportell.2197:

Necro downed state has AOE fear (have seen it work on several people)

It’s a trait which has like 1 minute icd.

Rennoko.5731:

I apologize….. I went to retest and I had made a mistake

I can verify what you said above…. the two sigils of para do not stack in any way….

But what is so very strange about what I found happening, is that at exactly 89% duration, if 15% of that was from one sigil of para, you will get two ticks from terror.

Tested with 10% from lyssa runes, master of terror for 50%, 14 points in spite for 14%, and the sigil of para for 15%.

This gives exactly 89% duration, yet it gives your fear 100% duration….. the only thing I can determine is that the sigil of para does not stack, but has some sort of rounding going on.

Not sure how to leverage this to my benifit, but I am going to think about it.

EDIT: It is also horribly buggy…. i can literally equip a weapon with the sigil, have it work, equip another weapon with the same sigil, and the sigil does nothing… I hate it when the game does things like this with no rhyme or reason….

Now that you mention it. They might be multiplicative.

Base duration 1 sec
10% cond from lyssa
14% cond from spite
50% cond from master of terror
=74%

sigil 15%

1,74*1,15=2,001 which means it’ll reach the double.

This is HUGE. What it basically means is that you can squeeze out the 100% fear duration in spvp even without bugged runes nor going 30 to spite.

Take in consideration that BiP has around average uptime of ~40-50% depending on your boon duration. Assuming 50%, it translates to average gain of 175 power over time + negligible bleed damage in power builds. Signet is constant 180 power.

Even if we possibly did it faster for kills, we’d probably lose some in running time as we have no out of combat leaps whatsoever. Still would be interesting to see.

Nemesis.8593:

Emmm… the thread is getting a bit of course. I shouldn’t have said anything off topic myself, but the whole “worship” idea doesn’t bode well with me.

I wanted to inspire a bit new necromancers out there, so that they don’t fall to peer pressure when encountering other players that run the most popular dungeon at this moment: CoF.
Speaking of inspiring and CoF… i think i need 2 more berserker necromancers to set up a test run…

Here I am. What group composition were you thinking?

Nice hit, though, looking by the rules, you should have used a normal level 80 mob, not a berserking mob which take extra damage from frenzy.. Yes, those berserkers use some version of it. So one could say you broke your own rules by enchanced damage from situational mechanic. That being said, warrior would probably have done ~70k damage in same situation.

Best of luck to all!

Idea:
Spectral burning
Spectral wall applies burning every time a foe crosses it.
Spectral armor applies burning when you’re hit.
Spectral walk applies burning in area while in effect.
Spectral grasp applies burning to target.

Durations and general spectral skill balance are negotiable.

They should, however, include accurate aftercast time to all abilities.

About every cast time on tooltips is more or less wrong and doesn’t account any aftercast time whatsoever.

Did you test it based on tooltips or actual chill effect time on target? Tooltips are largely incorrect with many duration boosts (mainly specific conditions). That being said, i’ve tested my chill-minion master build with 80% chill duration and Spinal Shivers inflicted ~9s chill in spvp while having base chill duration of 5s which means roughly 80% increase.

I also thank the devs for ramping up the active communication. It really means alot to know what’s going on.

JonPeters.5630:

Ok Spiteful Talisman is fixed locally. This should appear in about 2 weeks.

For reals? For PvE reals?

Sadly, I didn’t. Maybe next time.

My guild had a blast with 3+ minion master group yesterday in Temple of silent storm. We won most, lost some, which went pretty well considering we were mostly against 40-50 ranked premades and one of our guys played necro for the first time ever (after a small introduction ofcourse). Probably the funniest thing we did was that we all rolled smallest asuras and named them as “Bone mínion, Bone Miníon and Bone Míníon”. As expected, we all also ran with bone minions.

8) When the wurm teleport moves you to the wall right next to you.

Even as full berserker you can take moderate beating with high base health+shroud.

Go for dagger/focus + Staff with berserker.
30/0/0/0/0 for trait baseline for close to death. Rest of the traits are quite flexible.
Damaging wells for utilities and golem/lich for elite.

Andele.1306:

Pendragon.8735:

Karka aren’t a problem they are dumb AI, and weak to condition. But when you face live humans, the above issues begin to present more obviously.

You know, that was kinda the thing the whole thread was based on, its just i noticed it when i tried to run past 8 karka in a small hallway and they ate 100% LF in half a second…

I assume you mean that suicide cave… I couldn’t run through it even with plague. I got straight dps’d out of it, and then out of LF, and then dead.

Jon Peters personally said (he was in hearts of the mists) that they try to get it in a hotfix when they fix it.

Execrable.1064:

OmegaProject.9831:

I believe Chesire is close to why there was no action by ANet. We provided nothing but “hearsay” and corroborating statements, which is great, but no pictures or hard evidence were presented. snip

Actually, Targuil performed a more thorough test than what you did and documented the results in a spreadsheet. He posted an explanation and links to the spreadsheet in the bug forum.

Well, anyhow, I’m happy now, regardless of the way, devs now aknowledge this. I guess the video was more “in your face” style for them. Might take that as reference for future bug testing.

JonPeters.5630:

Ok we found a good repro case. It has to do with how death shroud and downed used to interact. I will get someone on it today and try and get a fix to you all asap.

Thanks! I hope to see it in the next patch.

JonPeters.5630:

This video is actually great. Thank you. I see that you have 1/3rd the health. This is not happening to my necromancer on live nor am I seeing it on test. Is this only happening when downleveled?

Jon

No, it is happening happening everywhere outside sPvP.

See my test, and feel free to test it yourself again. But don’t base the conclusion on feels. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Necromancer-PvE-downed-state-health/first

We all know that lich seems to be bugged when downleveled in some way. I decided to do a minor test regarding the amount of power you have with it:
lvl 79 lich without weapons. (weapons get removed when you go to lich and replaced by lich’s “weapon”)
lvl 79 lich without weapons and amulet.
lvl 80 lich without weapons.
lvl 80 lich without weapons and amulet.

Draw your own conclusions. I have some theories how this works and it might be the same for all stat-altering transformations while downlevelled. Glad it only affects downleveled so it has no big impact except lich being hindered for powermancers in most of the dungeons.

Anchoku.8142:

Edit: Perhaps the low downed state health is part of the profession on purpose, though. The dev’s might just say it is a feature and, “L2P.”

Necromancer does not have this disadvantage in spvp.

There are some similar wurms in Frostgorge sound, near Claw of Jormag claw event. Not sure if it is level 80 zone though.

About the downscaling, I know for sure that lich’s bonus power is bugged for downscaled (maybe non-lvl80), resulting in almost zero bonus power (it is 2×916=1836 at lvl 80). Doubt it is the case here though as the video shows.

Thanks for your input. Now we even got some video footage supporting the conclusion of my test (at least when downleveled). Method used is very valid (though different from mine) and pretty hard (read: impossible) to argue against.

Though, as a control group, I’d like to see this being tested in spvp too even though it could be pretty hard to do so.

Anet, it’s time to fix this and not “feel” it’s alright.

Execrable.1064:

Jon Peters mentioned in response my question on a Twitch stream today that he and Powerr tested the downstate health in sPvP, Pve and WvW yesterday May 10th and they felt there was no bug with our downstate heath. That may be the end of the issue as far as ArenaNet is concerned.

I wonder what methods they used to test that, and how they reached that conclusion.

Bhawb.7408:

We’re fine in PvE and WvW too, although there is plenty they can do to perfect the class.

Could argue WvW viablity considering we are half-free rallies for enemies in zergs due to our downed health.

Arenanet, I am disappoint.

This is just laughable, ridiculously laughable.

So we still die at sneeze when downed in pve? Great.

flow.6043:

snip

1 handed weapons gain 90+90=180, not 179 (i know, not making enough difference)

Also, did you count master tuning crystal? (not sure what nourishment you’re using). 6% toughness+4% vitality to condition damage. Also, did you count base toughness (916) for the rune bonus?

Other than that, it seems we are nearing our maximum.