Guild Wars 2

This is a great change, and I disagree entirely with the OP of this thread.

I kittening hate blobaddon, joke of a server.

Fantastic news, very much looking forward to this!

This will be interesting for sure. I will be looking forward to facing Gandara, Gunnar’s Hold and Far Shiverpeaks the most, simply because of the amount of organized guilds these server has.

Fantastic news if true, but I wouldn’t hold my breath on it happening anytime soon.

I’m surprised they haven’t closed this thread yet.

Our match-up got changed as well, so currently it is:

Ring of Fire - Elona Reach - Aurora Glade

And RoF is leading by quite a bit

MithranArkanere.8957:

The rules are rules are must be followed. The game’s rules are the ones dictating what can’t be done, not me.

Now, how about you actually back up your claims and provide the rest of us with a valid source that specifically states that doing these type of events in WvW is forbidden, and something that’s against the rules.

Would Chris Whiteside(dev) be making an apology on behalf of his co-worker if these players were doing something forbidden? If these players were actually violating the rules you claimed to be there, they would be banned on the spot, not because of the verbal abuse that they rightfully should have been punished for, but for their actually actions, which they weren’t.

MithranArkanere.8957:

This is not about elitism.

It’s about your action impacting others’ gameplay.

This is like when people hijacked random aremas to do 1vs1, or when people harassed others for completing events that produced champions they were farming, o when people grabbed the keg in Keg Brawl and ran outside the field to get their achievements.

When you use up WvW slots to not do WvW stuff (WvW stuff including things like grabbing vistas and points as they don’t take much time or are in places you have to capture to get), you impact others’ gameplay.

There could be people waiting to enter a puzzle, or do some dailies, or get some score of their world, or some WvW guild raid. So the less people using up slots, the easier it’ll be for them to join.

When what you do starts impacting other players in any way, then whoever is not following the official rulesets has to yield.

There’s simply no other way around that.

Do you even see what your writing? It sounds very much like you want to dictate what other’s should be able to do and not. As long as it doesn’t suit you it obviously has to be forbidden and wrong. The fact that you justify doing exploration, jumping puzzles etc. just clarifies my point.

So this is very much like elitism, since your trying to force people out of WvW, and saying that their not wanted because they don’t cater to your vision of how WvW should be like.

Disgraceful.

mrstealth.6701:

It’s not related to wvw at all, other than taking place on the same maps. And that only happens because there is no other place in the game where it’s possible. It has absolutely nothing to do with wvw.

According to you it isn’t, but look at the bigger picture. GvG’s might be used as training sessions in order for guilds to improve their general playstyle against like-minded guilds. In the long run the guilds doing GvG’s will get more experienced, and this is something their servers will benefit from, as these guilds will be better suited to handle open-field fights etc.

mrstealth.6701:

By the same right, gvg’ers on a queued map have no right to be denying wvw’ers access to that map. Yet that is exactly what they are doing. You are expecting non-interference from the same people you are interfering with.

Your in no right to deny me access to WvW regardless of what my intentions are, just as I’m not allowed to deny you access for the very same principle (This has been my point ever since my very first post today).

I never said I expected non-interference while I GvG, I however appreciate the common decency the majority seems to show, in game, by not doing so.

mrstealth.6701:

The most important part is that it’s *WvW*, not GvG. WvW is in the intended and designed game format, so of course that takes priority. GvG is not "another aspect of this gametype", it’s a separate player-generated gametype that happens on the same maps.

It is another aspect though, created by the players themselves. In my opinion GvG’s belongs in WvW, because the whole setup is based on WvW, just the spectators, surrounding the area, gives a different feel to it. Ideally thought there would be guild halls for each guild, where these could battle against one another, but at current time WvW is the only reasonable places these guilds can face off each-other.

mrstealth.6701:

As you point out, we all paid for the game, so I should not be denied enjoyment from playing wvw because someone else wants to use that map for their own unrelated purpose.

You should also not be denying others from enjoying themselves, regardless of how "unrelated" you think their purposes are.

mrstealth.6701:

There is a huge difference between saying "you can’t gvg" and "don’t gvg when it will interfere with wvw"
What I am saying is the latter. Have your gvg, but you need to realize that it can, and does in some cases, infringe upon the wvw community.

You simply don’t have the monopoly or authority to decide whats right and wrong here. While I understand where your going with this you also have to try and understand that you cannot dictate how others are meant to be playing the game, as we are all equal here.

Certain people still seem to feel obligated to point out what other people can and cannot do in WvW. Let me stress once again, that I’ve paid for this game in the same way you have, so am I not allowed to find enjoyment in other aspects of this gametype, that might not necessarily cater towards your vision of what WvW should be like? (As long as it’s within the rules of the game of course)

mrstealth.6701:

I don’t see how that qualifies as "elitism" at all. Elitism would be expecting you to play perfectly and conquer the whole map. The only expectation here is for you to actually participate in the game. gvg is actively _avoiding_ that.

It qualifies as elitism for the simple fact that you would be telling others to leave the map because their not contributing as much as they should, in your eyes, towards the ppt-score. It’s exactly like telling people doing their dailies, jumping puzzles etc. in WvW, to get the hell out, because they sure as hell ain’t contributing towards the ppt-score either.

The meaning of an "elitist" seems to differ I suppose, and I should probably have expressed myself in a different manner. However I hope you understand my point regardless of this.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Tellerion.8102:

I find it a bit hypocritical that certain people are calling out “GvG’ers” for being elitists and childish, yet they go ahead themselves and try to dictate how other’s are mean’t to be playing the game, and how they are supposed to be having fun.

Perfect example: “If you don’t contribute directly towards the ppt your worthless and should be doing spvp, instead of taking up valuable spaces!”

As far as I’m aware of this is actually a game and not a bloody job, so how about you lot try to realize that there’s different kind of people out there, that enjoys different things. Just because you don’t find enjoyment in it doesn’t make it forbidden or wrong (as long it’s not against any rules).

It’s not a single player game. IF you are taking up spaces, you are putting your fun over others. That score helps the whole world.
People waiting in queue to actually play WvW could be getting score that would give everyone bonuses instead.

End everyone would enjoy those little extras.

When you put your fun over other’s that’s being selfish.

This is exactly the kind of elitism I was talking about. You basically expect others to threat WvW as a job, instead of them enjoying themselves within the rules of the game. Just because your vision of WvW is to play by the ppt score doesn’t necessarily mean I have to follow that vision, as I find much more enjoyment in other aspects of this game-mode.

Now, if I enjoy open-field fights, who are you to tell me that I’m not worthy of taking up a space in WvW to do exactly that? I’ve paid for the game just as much as the next person.

I find it a bit hypocritical that certain people are calling out "GvG’ers" for being elitists and childish, yet they go ahead themselves and try to dictate how other’s are mean’t to be playing the game, and how they are supposed to be having fun.

Perfect example: "If you don’t contribute directly towards the ppt your worthless and should be doing spvp, instead of taking up valuable spaces!"

As far as I’m aware of this is actually a game and not a bloody job, so how about you lot try to realize that there’s different kind of people out there, that enjoys different things. Just because you don’t find enjoyment in it doesn’t make it forbidden or wrong (as long it’s not against any rules).

Shakki.3219:

Im still heavily impressed how really so many people call it GvG….. it seems most of you didn’t play real GvG’s in the original GW… what the people are doing here is nothing but Zerg vs Zerg….

I’m heavily impressed that some people, like yourself, are unable to see that these community-driven events happens between guilds, hence why people call it guild versus guild.

Necroing this.

XRKUN.1782:

i thought you wanna fix it, not destroy the whole thing?

1. player limit goes to 500 per server...lets have baaaaattles.
2. no more gay magic effects or any pink glowing flower weapons within WvW.
3. darker light setup, weather effects, day/night circle.
4. blood and gore patch enabled on entering WvW.
5. AFK kicks, so noone is blocking one of the 500 spots aye?
6. loads of new server hardware.

and there it is....THE only real WvW fix solution.

That’s good and all, but how exactly does this solve the large population imbalances, which was basically OP’s main point?

Wemil.7052:

except the servers that create a good community get a lot loyality for it.

and 50 game?

wow you want to cut it in half your probably one of those pve scrubs.

here is what anet should do

a) buy better servers

b) show us how many ppls currently in your server in WvW so we know when its close to que.

I’m not surprised that someone, who’s on the most stacked server in the EU-scene, has this mindset.

Riondron.1069:

Really? How about the gvg’ers start having respect for their server by actually contributing. and if those same guilds can’t get the ’data’ they need by fighting for real in wvw, then they should probably be playing Mario Cart.

Samhayn.2385:

Tellerion.8102:

Samhayn.2385:

it doesn’t matter when your gvg us being held, if your on a map and that map has a que (during prime NA this happens) then your taking spots from people who want to play.

disclaimer, I’m not for or against gvg, being a 5 man roamer my form of play isn’t actively supported either, I’m just playing devils advocate, it as a neutral observer I have seen solid arguments in both sides and I have seen people who ruin the image of both sides.

To clarify, GvG’s happen in WvW, therefore you are in no right to say that these people are taking up spots, as they have every right to be there as much as the next person.

If your going to be an elitist kitten about this, then you might as well tell the people doing crafting, gathering, their dailies and jumping puzzles to get the hell out of WvW as well.

or you could have quoted my whole post? Just asking.

Fixed now.

Apologize for that, it wasn’t aimed at you, but more as a general clarification to the people that’s under the impression that they can dictate how others are mean’t to be playing the game, and how they are supposed to be having fun.

Samhayn.2385:

it doesn’t matter when your gvg us being held, if your on a map and that map has a que (during prime NA this happens) then your taking spots from people who want to play.

disclaimer, I’m not for or against gvg, being a 5 man roamer my form of play isn’t actively supported either, I’m just playing devils advocate, it as a neutral observer I have seen solid arguments in both sides and I have seen people who ruin the image of both sides.

To clarify, GvG’s happen in WvW, therefore you are in no right to say that these people are taking up spots, as they have every right to be there as much as the next person.

If your going to be an elitist kitten about this, then you might as well tell the people doing crafting, gathering, their dailies and jumping puzzles to get the hell out of WvW as well.

Marquie Thomas.1873:

Grotesque.6479:

I just lost every last bit of respect for ArenaNet. Ban or infract me if you like, I really couldn’t care less. But you guys are totally out of your mind.

If you don’t care why post on the topic any way?

You misread it. He cares about the topic, but not about being infracted or banned for stating his opinion.

Magnetron.5823:

And GvG are people who are bad in Spvp.

Super is in Votf, and he won PAX with Car Crash, so your argument holds no ground.

sergei.5618:

Stop these hate posts and watch the video! The Commander insulted the Anet guy with “move kittening kitten” before he even said something. The Commander even called him an idiot. The Anet Guy’s reaction wasn’t even that unprofessional, it was reasonable.

Regardless of how impolite these guys were, it doesn’t change the fact that this Anet employee was there in the first place to provoke these people, by interfering in their GvG, and it’s clear to see that he was aiming to cause some sort of reaction, which he obviously succeeded in.

Sylv.5324:

I don’t see the problem with the employee’s behavior. GvG guys were being rude jerks and their attitude and words would have been reportable.

If the GvG folks had been polite, I might have a different opinion, but they weren’t. They started out being kittens and the employee was right in flipping his tag and calling them out.

I agree to a certain extent, they could have picked a nicer tone to start with, asking him kindly to move out of the way and stop interfering etc.

With that said, as an employee of a company you should never act like that towards your customers, and I know for a fact that if this was me doing something similar I would have gotten the sack as soon as my supervisors got hold of it.

Most pathetic incident so far, keep it up Anet.

Surely this can’t be true ..

Nybor.9687:

I can’t even be bothered to argue. At least Arena Net now know my and probably many others opinion. That’s all that matters

There may be tons of people sharing your opinion, but once you’ve expressed them on here, it instantly becomes the opinion of a minority.

That’s just how Devon’s logic works.

I like how they’ve decreased the amount of mobs in WvW.

The bloody warthogs near the mill are still there in numbers though ...

Terrahero.9358:

Tellerion.8102:

I’m going to have serious doubts about Anet if this isn’t their top priority at the moment.

WvW is very unrewarding. Very unfriendly to new players. Stacking buffs snowball winning servers out of control. New map changes and masteries make defense utterly pointless. People are leaving WvW out of sheer frustration left right and centre.

But making map completion easier for the PvE’ers is what their priority should be? My god…

Finally a decent match-up, thanks to mainly [FURY] and [RAGE] for an entertaining reset on GH border.

I’m going to have serious doubts about Anet if this isn’t their top priority at the moment ...

CC Danicia.1394:

It is! Thank you.

Feedback, as long as it’s about butterflies, red roses and/or child birth.

I’m surprised as well, oh well as long as we keep talking about red roses and butterflies I’m sure everything will be fine.

What’s Tequatl?

Dual.8953:

Let us act astounded and disgusted that they did what they said they’d do!!!

In all seriousness, I find people’s reaction on these board face palm worthy. It’s like no one sees the value of strategy and coordination. Only basic number, be it damage or body count. They wouldn’t know a fortifide military base from a hole in the ground. I mean it, the can’t tell the differemce between locking an orb in the center of a fully equipped, fully upgraded keep; and a series of capture point, left in the open where anyone can waltz in.

I might have exaggerated a bit, but the principle is the same, I don’t expect you to understand that though.

Shiren.9532:

For the supposed WvW elite you guys seem to have great difficulty comprehending the difference between a server wide buff that can be locked away in a fully upgraded keep stacked with siege and two gates to break down before you can get the orb or having to defend three points at all times with no defensive gates or walls, just terrain designed to raise the skill cap on combat.

There’s obviously a difference, never claimed it wasn’t. The effect from the stats increase however will be pretty much the same, and it’s bound to be in favor of the strongest (read: most populated) servers most of the time, leading to even more uneven match-ups, that’s basically settled before the weekend is over, thinking otherwise is just naive.

Shiren.9532:

I doubt it will turn the tide in battle for a losing server. What I expect it will do is it will give players something new and valuable to fight over. It will create new activities to do in WvW that will matter. Instead of having the option of joining the zerg, pointlessly roaming, scouting or flipping supply camps, you can now fight over the ruins. Open field combat, no walls or gates to knock down, lots of emphasis on terrain in combat and a guarantee that a zerg alone can’t replace you. The stat bonus from holding it means that you can feel like you are contributing to your server (honestly very few people will care about reduced damage from seige, especially on lower servers, a celestial buff is something most players can understand and care about).

I believe we both agree that the buff obviously needs to hold some kind of value for people to actually care about them, but I’m also under the impression that having a stats increase will make them slightly too meaningful, as holding them on all 3 borderlands will provide a significant amount of stats that will simply be far too game-changing for servers to not care about. This will again result in larger groups spending the majority of their time here, which again means that you can kiss your “roaming-paradise” farewell before it’s even began.

I really like the look of the new area, and definitely think it would be in a step in the right direction, I don’t mind the extra points you get for stomping, but what worries me is the mentioned stats increase, and I’d much rather see something like reduced siege damage instead, as it would still encourage people to care about the buff, but not too much. The very least they could do would be to drop the scaling of it between the borderlands, and instead just having it count towards the border your actually on.

Shiren.9532:

In addition to this, the ability to score points with stomps means that roamers will contribute more to their server.

I like this as well

Shiren.9532:

The orb buff and the ruins mechanic offers a lot of the WvW community. The fact that some other communities don’t like it doesn’t detract from its value to WvW.

This will certainly spice WvW up a bit, but again, if it’s made too meaningful I believe the actually concept behind it will be working against it’s cause. Secondary objects should remain secondary, and should not be seen as main objectives, if that makes any sense.

What other communities are you on about exactly? Because as far as I’m aware of I’m first and foremost a WvWer, I’ve played since early beta, and I’ve spent countless of hours raiding with my guild in WvW, on pretty much a daily basis. Just because I find enjoyment in the odd experience of having a GvG every once in awhile, to get away from what has become kind of tedious WvW’ing, doesn’t give you the right to belittle my opinions.

Shiren.9532:

The whining from the “GvG” community because their interests aren’t being placed ahead of WvW is getting really old.

I wouldn’t categorize most of it as whining, as believe it or not, there are actually people on here who has invested time and effort into this game and don’t want to see all that being wasted, without at least having shared their thoughts and letting their voices being heard on the matter. If anything I’d call that being passionate.

So this is Habib’s reasoning for removing orb’s from WvW a while back ago:

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

That’s right, it’s going to be deja kittening vu, while the way of getting it will be different the issue that’s described in the bolded part will very much be the same.

Or am I missing something?

Habib Loew.6239:

After a careful reevaluation of orbs of power we have decided to remove them from WvW in an upcoming build. As implemented, orbs tend to strengthen teams who are already winning and make it even more difficult for underdog teams to fight back. In addition, the current implementation seems to be irresistible to hackers/cheaters and will require significant modification to prevent cheaters from having an unfortunately large impact on the state of any given WvW game. Under the circumstances we believe that removing orbs completely is a better choice than attempting an in-place redesign/re-implementation as it will immediately put a stop to all orb hacking. It is likely that orbs, or some orb-like mechanic, will return at some point in the future, but only after we are confident that they will not exhibit the sorts of issues that we see with orbs today.

There you have it.

(Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Orbs-will-be-removed-from-WvW-in-an-upcoming-build/first#post608170)

Unkitteningbelievable

ParaldaWind.4523:

30v30 is actually fine on NA. We don’t get skill lag until 60v60v60.

I’m on the wrong side of the ocean then

I wouldn’t hold my breath on the queuing issues been fixed in the nearest future.

And allowing more players into a zone isn’t the right way to go, since the servers can barely handle 30v30 action without breaking down, resulting in heavy skill-lag and such.

As others have pointed out it’s bound to get worse the closer we get to the season 1, as people will obviously want to have an easy ride for their precious rewards, with minimal to no effort, and that leads them to jump to already over-stacked servers like the one your on.

For the last time, this discussion/voting is about the bloodlust buff, meaning the stats increase and extra points for stomping, and not about the map changes, that will (hopefully) split up the zone zergs.

The stats increase gained by such a buff is guaranteed to have a snowballing effect, which in reality means that the strongest/most populated server is pretty much bound to have a significant stats advantage most of the time, making match-ups even more uneven than they currently are.

So please lay your GvG hatred aside for a brief second and try to understand that this change caters to WvW as a whole in a negative way.

I fully support this idea.

DrWhom.3105:

No to the buff, or more specifically no to a buff that effects combat. Better options are faster dolyaks, faster upgrades, more supply capacity, or any number of other sensible things that have been suggested.

But higher population (i.e. that ability to cover a larger number of capture points) should never reward higher individual combat effectiveness.

I agree entirely with this.

Zikory.6871:

Tellerion.8102:

Zikory.6871:

YES

Do you guys really fail to see how this will make the strongest servers even stronger?

That isn’t the point of what I said. Its getting implemented, regardless of this post. This whole system is bring a whole new meta where small man groups can be extremely effective for your server, was that not the complaint last week? Need more for small groups?

As far as I’m aware of this discussion is about the bloodlust buff you get from holding these points, not about the actual map changes, who by the way I think will be a great change in order to encourage smaller scaled combat.

Do you really fail to see that the stat increase, the strongest servers are bound to have most of the time, will affect WvW in a negative matter?

Do you guys really fail to see how this will make the strongest servers even stronger?

The stat increase such a buff would give is a massive NO, it’s clear for everyone to see, apart from the devs, that it’s guaranteed to have a negative impact on WvW as a whole, for obvious reasons.

Although I understand that there needs to be something of value for people to fight over these buffs, giving them a stat boost isn’t the right way to go. The extra points for stomping people however is an idea I like.

Great post Aneu, agree with everything.