For those saying “Don’t focus on the score” or anything like that… I’m not. I’m focused on my repair bill. When I’m constantly dying to the zergs and being pushed back, my bill soars and I slowly lose money. More so when I buy siege or upgrades only to have them snagged away before I have a chance to get the cash back. Being unable to gain any ground at all and doing effectively nothing doesn’t help… and I don’t even look at the points.
Being able to hold ground? Hearing strategies? Fighting to keep what we have? Yeah that’s fun. But dying over and over and over…….. there’s a point where that just stops being fun.
And no, I’m not that good a PVPer. That’s why I instead do other things. Sieging, scouting, repairs, tactical advice, occasionally defense or attacking of NPCs and the like.
You hit the nail on the head.
When the map is being dominated by another server, the rational choice is not to play WvW.
Per hour played you will earn much less karma than in PvE (or in a balanced WvW map) because it will be impossible to consistently take, hold or defend objectives. You will also be dying to the zerg more often, with your repair bill not being offset by event rewards.
And of course, rewards aside, it’s just not fun.
Exactly how is this stopping you from having fun in WvW? I am on TC and my small guild of 5 members (none of us 80) have been running around in WvW having a blast. We take supply camps, kill sentries and do whatever we can to mess with the other sides. We have been involved in taking keeps and defending them successfully.
Seriously, stop focusing on the score and try to have some fun. Move away from the golem zerg and hit something else. In the end after matchmaking has had more than one freaking round of weekly match-ups to work it’s algorithm it will balance the overall servers better.
I started playing WvW for the massed epic battles around keeps and towers.
The small group excursions are fun, but not the main draw for me. Unfortunately you can’t have the big sieges when you can’t get out of your spawn, or actually hold a supply camp, let alone a tower.
Lol, you should try playing on TC or maguuma. It would change your perspective.
I’ve played an under populated realm in DAoC for many years. I know how its like to be dominated. Its just how WvW is supposed to be played.
And DAoC topped out at what, 250k subs?
I really don’t think ArenaNet’s intention for WvW is for it to become a niche game at the DAoC or Eve Online level. They are thinking in terms of the mass market: millions of copies sold.
That said, if the snowball effect/off-peak/map domination issue is not fixed, WvW will become a niche game mode, at the DAoC level.
‘WvW is designed to accommodate players that would not normally participate in PvP’, according to Anet. I don’t see how that statement supports being 100% dominated?
ArenaNet has been sending mixed signals on whether they want WvW to be a casual game mode, or one that requires worldwide 24/7 hardcore alliances.
I assume the current radio silence on their end is because they are trying to work out what they actually want WvW to be, and what the roadmap is going forward.
I can vouch that the TC vs DB vs MG match-up has been fun in NA primetime, with all servers pretty much even. It is only on NA off-hours that the game just becomes unplayable.
To me this indicates that the overall problem is the “snowball effect” — winning servers utterly dominating a map, which is why off-peak capping has become such an issue.
People are going to deal with it by quitting WvW.
By all means, make WvW hardcore 24/7 worldwide alliances like Eve Online and watch the playerbase top out at 500k max. Can you say niche game?
Or, investigate options for balancing off-peak capping like the Op has suggested.
I’ll take what’s behind door #2.
I spend perhaps 90% of my time in WvW, and I’ve had many epic experiences. They usually involve holding objectives against huge odds, particularly creative captures, reinforcements arriving in the nick of time, open field fights where everyone is synced together etc. etc. Pretty standard stuff really.
I guess we just have different definitions of what constitutes “epic”.
There are also tons of choke points (I know, I play an area control Guardian who specializes in them). They tend to be at the mouths of supply camps, the doors of keeps, bridges across islands on the way to keeps or camps etc. etc.
And GW2 WvW is it own game. It really should be described as semi-persistent, half-way between a battleground and a virtual world. Personally I prefer this, as it is (once they get the imbalances worked out), better for the casual player. But this is different strokes for different folks.
Maguuma and Tarnished Coast were actually doing okay against Dragonbrand for a short while – even during the night – but the orb bonuses just add up. Once the map looks bad enough, people just give up, and that’s it until enough people log on to rally. We have some pretty epic fights taking stuff back, but that’s the end of it really.
I know at least for TC, we do well in our weekday prime time which seems to be around 8pm to 11pm Eastern. We can hold first for a time, and are usually within a hundred of the first placed sever.
Then we lose everything when the opposing team night comes on. This is the hole we have to dig ourselves out of every day. Sometimes not even our primetime crew is up to it (this happened on Monday night, when we couldn’t get anything going).
There is obviously a problem when there are only 3 hours in the day you can enjoyably play a large part of GW2’s endgame.
Appreciate the effort find fixes for WvW. But I have to disagree.
Why? I love the Borderlands, and hate EB.
The Borderlands are more wide open, there is more open field fighting, underwater combat, and less keep flipping then EB.
I agree that I don’t see how WvW excludes casual players. There’s enough people on your team so that you don’t have to have ferocious timing and finely-tuned builds, you can jump on and play for an hour, or stay on all day and be rewarded either way. So individual skill and play time are not really enforced by the system. There’s not really anything that pushes casual players out of the format.
The casual player is pushed out when he jumps on to play for an hour and can’t get out of his spawn. He, quite rationally, goes back to PvE.
Starting Monday morning, this was the case in most WvW match-ups.
I cant believe all of the posts coming from you guys who cant stand to lose. WvW is EPIC. And it is only going to get better with time. If you are one of those guys who are saying you aren’t going to play anymore based on not even a weeks worth of play because you are losing, please take your own advice and don’t play. That will free up server space for the hundreds of peeps that cant get in each night.
This WvW is totally unique in the market and it is special. I love it. Why would anyone want to limit the time you can enjoy it. get organized. Recruit people who play at night, and stop trying to take my content away with your crappy attitude. Go play a game that has no losers so you can be happy.
This is a game with winners and losers each week. Hallelujah! Every week I’m going to get to play for something against other similarly matched servers! woooot again Hallelujah! Way to go Anet. You are definitely on the right track. Keep it up.
Ok enough time in the forums reading whiner post. Time to go defend my tower in WvW come find me.
WvW is great, but it was also sold as endgame for casual users. And casual users are the vast majority of GW2’s player base.
Recruiting off-peak guilds on game forums, forming server-wide alliances etc. etc., is something that is beyond the casual player. Casual players just do not have the time or willingness to organize even at this level.
As has been said before, by all means, let WvW become a hardcore game mode where you have to organize a 24/7 alliance with gamers from around the world. But in that case:
1) ArenaNet is guilty of false advertising: WvW was sold as casual.
2) You are looking at an Eve Online niche level game mode: 500k tops.
You people need to stop with the night capping BS, as someone else said in another post " you consider it bed time, I considered it prime time". If you are getting stomped its because your server lacks the drive/tactics to win.
I appreciate how i paid for the same game yet you want to limit my content or force me to play on a server without my buddies
But is WvW a casual or a hardcore game mode?
You can’t expect the casual player to get on game forums to recruit off-peak guilds, form server-wide alliances etc. The casual player just does not have the time or willingness to do this.
By all means, allow WvW to become hardcore. But if that is the case, then ArenaNet is guilty of false advertising. WvW was sold as endgame for casual players.
(And I will also add, if WvW does go hardcore, it will end up with niche numbers like Eve Online: 500k tops).
Yes, but every 2 weeks WvW stops.
Thus, no great principle is broken if at midnight very day WvW stops, or is modified, reset, using new scoring etc. We are only debating the degree of persistence WvW should have.
Any modification of the 24 hour cycle should, however, try to balance the best results for players who play at the different times.
My feeling is it is neither good nor bad, just different.
It does take away from the “this is my guild” feeling, but at the same time does widen your social circle.
In WvW at least, it is a good way to build up ties between guilds.
Without repair WvW would be the best way to make cash in the game as there would be no loss of income(short of the suckers who buy siege).
Then nerf drops from defeated enemies (with the exclusion of the badge drop rate) and nerf the gold rewards from defending/attacking events.
Agree, take out repair.
It further discourages melee players, who die frequently to range, and need all the help they can get.
Enough of this stuff. ANet has already responded to this QQ. It’s not going to change. Persistent world PvP requires that these types of things are possible. Things aren’t ever going to be fair all the time in WvW. If you want fair, sPvP is over there >>>>
They responded ? Where ? Where did they say it’s not going to change ?
Mike Ferguson responded with a half-hearted, defensive posts about the problems in WvW. His argument was:
1) WvW is persistent.
2) Losing servers should recruit off-peak players.
The problem with his response was that it was both incorrect and contradicted ArenaNet’s stated description of WvW As in:
1) WvW is not persistent. It resets every 2 weeks, and at best can be described as semi-persistent. No great principle of “persistence” is broken if the 24 hour day is broken up into 3 scoring periods.
2) ArenaNet said WvW is for casual players. Yet, here is a dev counseling those same casual players to get on game forums and start recruiting off-peak guilds, form alliances etc. etc. Even this organization is beyond the effort casual players are willing to put in.
So, ArenaNet has to clarify their thinking on WvW:
1) Is WvW persistent, or is it not?
2) Is WvW for casual players, or is WvW for the hardcore who have the time and willingness to organize 24/7 alliances.
EDIT: The text of Ferguson’s original post is above me.
With all the problems in WvW, the basic mechanics and design are so fun that nothing else on the market compares.
So, it would really depend it something came along to beat it, which seems like a remote possibility at this point in time.
I wonder why Anet hasn’t responded to such match manipulation such as server transferring to stop the enemy team from using their siege weapons. Even admitting to do so in chat.
ArenaNet is still slightly confused about what kind of gamemode WvW is.
Is WvW for casual afterwork players, or is it for hardcore, EVE Online style alliances who use every dirty trick possible 24/7 to win?
At the moment, they are letting the hardcore dominate, and it threatens to decimate the casual population. Will see what changes the weeks ahead bring.
So far on Tarnished Coast (unofficial NA RP server) we have RP WvW guilds, rather than RP guilds in WvW. Most of our best leaders are light role-players when commanding, which is fun and good for world cohesion.
We did have one guild (great people) who did start RP’ing during a crucial fight (walking a Yak, after the escort event was cut), but there was a discussion and I think they realized the impact they were having on others.
My suggestion would be to have your most diplomatic person talk to them, and point out the effect they are having on the enjoyment of others. Tell them they don’t have to stop RP’ing, just change how they do it when in WvW.
Like I said in another thread, I’m up for “screwing” Oceanic players if that what it takes to save WvW for North American (and European) players.
The combined NA and EU player base dwarfs anyone in Australia/New Zealand. ArenaNet will do what they have to do to save this huge amount of paying customers.
I know it sucks, but that’s capitalism.
Exotic Toughness/Vitality/Power gear is available from the temple vendors in Orr (at least for Heavy armour users).
You can get enough Karma to buy the full set in probably about a month of regular WvW play.
1) Exotic gear is obtainable through playing WvW. Karma falls like rain, and this can be used to buy armour from Orr. (All this requires is zoning in to Orr when the temples are under Pact control). Also, badges can be used to buy Exotic weapons. Have no info on Trinkets yet.
2) Size of Map: Different Strokes for Different Folks. ArenaNet clearly wanted a game where the non-hardcore player could quickly find some action in a group context. This is why GW2 has sold 2 million copies, to what, DAoC’s 250k subscriber base.
3) Sameness of Maps. In this area, ArenaNet is veering more towards repeatable battlegrounds than a persistent “realm”. Just a different design choice, no better or worse than DAoC, just different. It does make it more “gamey” than “worldly”, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
4) Queues. Again, this choice on the “gamey” side of things, rather than the “world”. ArenaNet wants a relatively balanced fight for the average player (timezones imbalances aside). So far, the most serious impact of queues is only on the top servers, and huge guilds, wherever they may reside.
5) Players sticking around. How many people actually stuck around in DAoC? As was said above, 250k. GW2 is currently at 2 million sales. We’ll see which game form, WvW or RvR is ultimately successful in the long run.
Do we have to have these threads repeated ad nauseum? Anet have said WvWvW is designed to be a persistent 24 hour battle. This is working as intended. Perhaps you could invite some Canadians to your server so you can be competitive?
ArenaNet is confused about their own game when they call WvW “persistent”.
WvW will reset every 2 weeks — it is in no way persistent.
Thus, further dividing the 24 hour cycle into three scoring periods (for example) will break no great principle of “persistence”.
I think repair costs should be nerfed as well.
As they are, it rewards conservative play, and people running away from battle.
They also disadvantage melee classes who die a lot, when melee classes need all the encouragement they can get vs range.
we finally got the keep outside our spawn. We had people running supplies for the siege engines we were putting up. We got zerged immediately. They stood in the circle of fire for the arrow carts and used retaliation to bring them down. Our 10 defenders had nothing on the 20-30 people outside. When your anti-zerg siege equipment dies because you’re shooting the zerg, there’s a problem.
ArenaNet is on the record as reconsidering retaliation vs siege. It looks like they will remove it.
sPvP is for individual competition.
WvW is for the masses and server-wide competition.
/no names
Sanctuary has a long cooldown, but it actually has amazing utility. You can use it in the following circumstances.
1) Cast over downed ally to rez. Blocks projectiles of enemies trying to kill him, and its heal speeds up the rez.
2) Cast to block a control point or knock enemies out of it. Sanctuary actually ejects enemies out of the area it is cast in (unless they have Stability on). This is great, for example, if you are protecting a piece of siege and a stealthed thief shows up in the middle of it. Cast, and away he goes.
3) Cast when escaping from the enemy. Sanctuary both blocks movement and projectiles, so this makes it great to cast when running away from a zerg. (Sanctuary can be cast on the run).
Shelter is a constant 2 second block, which, in itself very valuable, at least in WvW.
Do you know how many attacks you can block in 2 seconds? Most other blocks on the Guardian only last for a number of hits, usually 3 or less. It is also mobile.
A buffed heal would probably make it OP.
Yes it does. If I remember correctly, 8 points in healing power gets you one extra HP regen per second.
The virtue of resolve, on the other hand, is not a true regen. You need around 16-17 points of healing power to get on extra HP regen from the virtue.
Do you mean the passive resolve tick, or the heal on activation untraited?
If you put 5 points in Virtues, activating Resolve does give the Regeneration boon, which should be affected by Healing power.
It’s a dungeon rune. You can only get it by running Ascalonian Catacombs explorable and buying it from the merchant with tokens. Same with runes of balefire, noble, forge, orrian, etc. There’s one unique rune for each dungeon.
Ah! Thank you very much for the information.
I had no idea that was the case.
Come to Tarnished Coast if you want. We may be the unofficial RP server, but we’ve been holding our own. In the Points Ranking we’re smack dab in the middle, not too high (So we don’t have hours of queues) and not too low (So we’re not trashed by everything). A little boost could help.
Especially now, facing against the goons in Dragonbrand.
Only come to TC though if you can fit in with Role-Players. It’s not really fair to the community if you don’t contribute on that side of things.
Also, with most servers close to cap, you are possibly taking up the slot of actual role-players.
I agree.
This is needed ASAP. Surprised it wasn’t in at launch.
We don’t like this either we were really hoping for a matchup vs HoD trust me this type of match isn’t fun for anyone.
No you weren’t. It’s common knowledge that your threw the last matchup before the 1 week battles started specifically so you didn’t have to face HoD and got a nice easy match for this week.
The main problem with this is that it isn’t going to get any better for IoJ/SoS unless both of them do so bad as to drop down to the next tier. Once reset comes again we will still be up against one of the top 4 servers.
As has been said, organized alliances have too much power. The one on ET throwing their match is an example of this. The result is almost a form of griefing.
No doubt this will happen again and again and again in the months that follow. ArenaNet has to address the problem, or WvW will end up niche like Eve Online.
We have boycotted WvW this week until ET are out of this bracket, whoever is in charge of putting them down there needs a serious talking to.
Even if the rumors are true that ET threw some games to get dropped a bracket, whoever is in charge of matching them up should have half a brain to realise that they are one of the top ranked servers not down in this bracket.
Way to go on ruining WvW for 3 servers for a week
I know how bad it sucks getting matched up with one of the mega servers, but what is Anet supposed to do? There’s 4 servers that match up fairly well with each other, so what happens with the 4th? They sit out for a week until they can play in the top tier again so other servers don’t have to face them?
This is incorrect. ArenaNet is not matching servers within the same bracket. They are matching servers one or two brackets away from each other.
For example, my server Tarnished Coast was matched against Dragonbrand (4 ranks ahead of us) and Maguuma (2 ranks ahead of us).
If we had been fighting 2 servers of Maguumas rank (+2) we probably would have had a relatively fun match-up, though they would have had the overall advantage.
However, add a +4 rank and the scale is just tilted too far against those in the lower bracket. The deficit is just too much to make up, and this creates the ultimate in unfun.
The Orbs do give quite an advantage.
However, nerfing the orbs would reduce the importance of the Borderland maps. That would be a shame, as I find them way more fun than EB.
If the Orbs are nerfed, then something else should be added to maintain the strategic importance of the Borderlands (besides the points).
Very good points all.
1) You put your finger on the problem with server structure. They made EU and NA servers, but not Oceanic ones for the third region. The number of off-peak players in their home regions is negligible compared to the impact of guilds playing outside their region. ArenaNet’s efforts to paint customer complaints as “being unfair to shift workers” is a straw man.
2) Equilibrium restoration is needed. ’Nuff said, has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere.
3) Great suggestion on supply. When you are overwhelmingly outmanned on a map, it can be impossible to even take and hold 1 supply camp. Making supply available in the spawn when you are far behind would help.
Server’s in last right now but it seems to be a manageable situation if we really work some strategies. I’m cautiously optimistic that even if we don’t win, we will have put up a worthwhile fight.
TC did well Saturday night prime time and with a midnight crew. We were actually able to take the towers outside our spawn in the enemy borderlands, and later a Bay (that was held for 5 minutes).
But Sunday morning/afternoon we are back to same unfun situation, with both enemy Borderlands being camped. And supply camps being overwhelmed by zergs 3x what you have.
I can’t describe how terrible it is to play in these circumstances. I try to be a team player. I’m not in it to farm badges or 1v1 (which are fine choices). But when the odds are so bad, all you are doing is throwing yourself into a meatgrinder. It is a crappy, crappy feeling. The type that makes people quit games.
We’ll see over the next few days, especially in regards to the weekday population. But it still looks like the match-making screwed up.
I don’t craft at all, and so buy most of my equipment from the TP.
I have been looking for the Superior Rune of the Monk, but have no seen it for sale. So I wondered what the reasons were for its absence.
Is this a high level recipe, or one that hasn’t bee discovered yet?
It has to be said.
The advantage that organized groups have in WvW is just too extreme vis-a-vis the unorganized casual player. If this persists, as the current lop-sided match-ups show, most casual players will stop showing up to WvW.
So ArenaNet has a choice:
1) Handicap servers that pull away in score and buff those who fall behind, or
2) Admit WvW is a hardcore game mode.
If you support 1), how would you even the playing field?
If you support 2) why do you think WvW should become a hardcore game mode?
It is not the matchmaking systems fault you have no night crew. It its not lets take turns winning it is a fight there are winners and losers so step up or stand down. You could try recruiting from EU servers.
Asking players to recruit guilds is not the answer for a game mode that was sold as “casual”.
The casual player does not haunt forums or even have the level of organization needed to make something like that work. They just log in to play, and zone to WvW when they feel like it.
If recruiting off-peak players is to become a requirement of enjoying WvW, then ArenaNet should drop the mask, and openly say WvW is for 24/7 hardcore alliances.
A (Hopefully Reasonable) Suggestion For Guardian Elites: Let Us Move While Channeling
in Guardian
Posted by: Thrumdi.9216
Making Renewed Focus mobile would probably make it too OP, in my opinion, when combined with all the other Guardian blocks available.
Letting it grant stability (or other buffs) to your allies might be a possibility, and bring it up to par with what is granted by the other elites.
(Or reducing its cooldown by 10 or 15 seconds).
What is your playstyle, and what do you actually like doing in game?
You can’t really advise on a build without this info.
Check out the wiki under exotic armours. You can get Pow/Tou/Vit on all six pieces, but you have to mix and max a bit from different vendors.
As was said above, simply make siege undeployable in the PvP jumping puzzle.
Seems like an easy fix, and would probably lead to some great fights.
(And may make the PvP puzzle the place to go for unobstructed duels).
Any game depending on only 1 type of its player base is not working as intended. We all paid 59.99 an every ones efforts should be equal. Currently that’s not the case. Recruiting players from oceanic/Australia/China etc etc is not a solution its a exploit of a design oversight. Taking advantage of a situation is never the answer. They will be forced to fix world vs world or watch it decline rapidly into obscurity. All servers should be able to function in WvWvW as is with the only deciding factor being teamwork communication and skill. Population is not a factor that should ever take place in this type of game mode if you want people to take it seriously and enjoy it.
ArenaNet’s advice to recruit off-peak players also directly contradicts their assertion that WvW is for casual players.
ArenaNet actually expects the casual player base of most WvW servers to start combing gaming forums, starting alliances etc. etc. for off-peak guilds to move to their server?
Think about that for a second. They are asking casuals to recruit at least the semi-hardcore i.e. a guild big enough and organized enough to make a difference if they transfer.
Such advice is completely ludicrous, and suggests ArenaNet is grasping at straws re: the problems in WvW.
Every hour should be worth the same, it’s 24/7 and has been stated multiple times by the devs that it will remain that way. Unnecessary development time for something that doesn’t need to be fixed and is working as intended.
Actually the idea that WvW is “persistent” is a myth.
The server resets every two weeks — there goes your persistence. Thus, no great principle will be broken if the persistence over a 24 hour cycle is divided or reset.
And ArenaNet is actually incoherent on this particular point and needs to get their story straight, by answering these 2 questions:
1) Is WvW persistent, or is it not?
2) Is WvW a game for casual players, or is it one where 24/7 hardcore alliances dominate (as appears to be happening).
Clear up your thinking soon, or watch WvW degrade.
Dragonband 485 > Maguuma 150 > Tarnished Coast 60
Thanks ArenaNet! What a great week this is going to be.
(As an aside, it looks like TC dropped back because we took SM and lost the rest of our forts in the process. Let that be a lesson to you kids).
(edited by Thrumdi.9216)
You do have to do some damage, but this very possible for a staff Guardian during a siege.
The best way is to get right up to the gate itself and shoot through it. Or if the fight is outside, pop out, use Wall of Reflection, shoot off some Orbs etc. Your survivability means you could roll back in whenever you need to.
In siege situations though, you have to play the Guardian more as mid line (popping in front when needed), than backline support. Which may mean a change in playstyle.
Changes to WvW which would greatly benefit the overall feel of the pvp.
in WvW
Posted by: Thrumdi.9216
On Autoloot, in Beta the Dev’s said they would like an autoloot system. But, there are some edge cases where autoloot is extremely difficult to implement (they didn’t say what these are).
So, I assume they are working on autoloot, and if it is technically possible, they will implement it.
(Also, in Beta, bags didn’t drop at your feet, but where the enemy died, which could have been outside the keep wall etc. So looting has been gradually improved).