Guild Wars 2

Morsheira.6102:

Actually I am in game right now and I just checked on all the outfits I have and you can only hide the head piece. Infact I’d honestly like many of the outfits more if I could hide the shoulders.

Maybe it varies depending on the outfit, then?

Because I have the Pirate Captain’s Outfit and you can definitely hide the gloves on that.

It’s harder to tell with the shoulders, as it doesn’t really have shoulders, as such.

I just assumed that, if you could hide the head and gloves, you could probably also hide the shoulders.

MrRuin.9740:

I do not care for the outfit system of having to wear everything except the headpiece.

You can also hide the shoulders and the gloves.

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Guhracie.3419:

Tigaseye.2047:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lorgus.6148:

I doubt that charr standards of seduction would even match our own. For all we know, a charrs attractiveness could be measured by size of the horns, with no merit being given to the outfit at all.

But what if said female charr is trying to attract a handsome human thief that killed an Elder Dragon by joining the Tyria High Varsity Cheerleader team, only to be disappointed by the lack of seductive outfits in the Gem Store? The day the Exemplar outfits are released, is the day of redemption.

She could always transfer to TC Bayside High, where the cheerleader squad is ranked #1 NA, but her family currently doesn’t have the funds to pay for such a move. Still, Tyria High is a fine school for all RPers to attend. A charr can learn a lot about humans there.

Why would a female Charr be trying to attract a human?

Sentient beings who can communicate will find ways to love one another. It’s kind of beautiful, if you don’t think about it too hard. (They’ll find ways to hate each other, too, of course.) /serious note

Well, obviously it’s not as bad as a human sexually abusing an animal, but I still think the general rule is:

If the coupling is incapable of creating offspring (in general, I mean – I’m not referring to specific cases of infertility), it probably shouldn’t be happening at all.

It’s like you have never loved someone before. Once you love someone (which generally isn’t a choice you make) you can’t just turn your heart off.

No, it’s like I have only loved other human beings in that way.

As, I would hope, have we all…

I can’t hold a conversation with anything other than a human in real life. That’s different in fantasy worlds. I would hope you understand that.

Yes, of course I do.

That wasn’t a dig at you personally – it was more a reference to the worrying things that are thrown up by a thread like this.

The thing is, this isn’t even a thread about sexualising extremely human-looking, sentient aliens, is it?

This is a thread about asking to be able to sexualise extremely animal-looking, albeit also sentient, creatures, in a human way.

Quite frankly, no human being should be viewing Charr (in their current form) in a sexual way, as they are far too close to animals that exist in our world, physically speaking.

Closer than they are to humans, in fact.

I understand some people may just want to play dress-up, in a fairly innocent way, but still.

Fact is, you are focused more on looks than anything. You don’t see anything intelligent as a being of soul and mind. All you see is the body and since it’s against your personal beliefs, you find it abhorrent. Not everyone thinks and feels the same way. In Tyria, Charr aren’t cat people. They are charr. You are being raciest/speciesist against them just like someone would be in real life against someone of a different skin color and it’s pretty sad you can’t see that. If they are intelligent and it’s consensual, who are we to judge? It’s arguably the same for LGBT. Who cares if they can procreate or not? Relationships aren’t founded on procreation in a civilized society. It’s based around mutual respect and understanding. Procreation is for animals, ironically enough.

Am I really?

Maybe you would like to tell my (half Asian) long term BF that I’m a racist, then?

I’m sure he’d be fascinated to know.

No, I can just tell the difference between race (as in, skin colour and possibly a few other very minor physical differences, that don’t prevent interbreeding) and species, that’s all.

…and for the record, I’m also someone who is more interested in my potential mate’s mind, than I am in their physical appearance.

I just know where to draw the line in terms of who I should mate with and who I shouldn’t.

Comparing it to an interracial (as in skin colour), or gay relationship, is ridiculous.

These are, genetically, very different creatures – the physical appearance is just evidence of that.

That is supposed to be the clue that makes you draw the line at nothing more than just good friends…

That doesn’t mean I couldn’t like/love Charr in other (non-sexual) ways, though.

I could and no doubt I would, if I lived in Tyria.

Please note my char name – I love big cats, just not in that way.

…and whether they are, or are not (technically) cat people is also besides the point, because the point is that they look almost exactly like cats.

So we, as human beings living in the real world (where there are cats), are not supposed to find them attractive.

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Guhracie.3419:

Tigaseye.2047:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lorgus.6148:

I doubt that charr standards of seduction would even match our own. For all we know, a charrs attractiveness could be measured by size of the horns, with no merit being given to the outfit at all.

But what if said female charr is trying to attract a handsome human thief that killed an Elder Dragon by joining the Tyria High Varsity Cheerleader team, only to be disappointed by the lack of seductive outfits in the Gem Store? The day the Exemplar outfits are released, is the day of redemption.

She could always transfer to TC Bayside High, where the cheerleader squad is ranked #1 NA, but her family currently doesn’t have the funds to pay for such a move. Still, Tyria High is a fine school for all RPers to attend. A charr can learn a lot about humans there.

Why would a female Charr be trying to attract a human?

Sentient beings who can communicate will find ways to love one another. It’s kind of beautiful, if you don’t think about it too hard. (They’ll find ways to hate each other, too, of course.) /serious note

Well, obviously it’s not as bad as a human sexually abusing an animal, but I still think the general rule is:

If the coupling is incapable of creating offspring (in general, I mean – I’m not referring to specific cases of infertility), it probably shouldn’t be happening at all.

It’s like you have never loved someone before. Once you love someone (which generally isn’t a choice you make) you can’t just turn your heart off.

No, it’s like I have only loved other human beings in that way.

As, I would hope, have we all…

I can’t hold a conversation with anything other than a human in real life. That’s different in fantasy worlds. I would hope you understand that.

Yes, of course I do.

That wasn’t a dig at you personally – it was more a reference to the worrying things that are thrown up by a thread like this.

The thing is, this isn’t even a thread about sexualising extremely human-looking, sentient aliens, is it?

This is a thread about asking to be able to sexualise extremely animal-looking, albeit also sentient, creatures, in a human way.

Quite frankly, no human being should be viewing Charr (in their current form) in a sexual way, as they are far too close to animals that exist in our world, physically speaking.

Closer than they are to humans, in fact.

I understand some people may just want to play dress-up, in a fairly innocent way, but still.

Dante.1763:

Tigaseye.2047:

Well, obviously it’s not as bad as a human sexually abusing an animal, but I still think the general rule is:

If the coupling is incapable of creating offspring (in general, I mean – I’m not referring to specific cases of infertility), it probably shouldn’t be happening at all.

No offense intended really, but im glad that the law makers dont really agree with this!(i didnt get offended! xD) Otherwise me and my BF, because of what i am, wouldnt be allowed to be together

Now i do agree on the animal sexual abuse though!

Plus, relationships that cant produce offspring have been going forever in fantasy worlds! I know it wont change your opinion at all(Nor am i trying to) but, in a book from the greyhawk series, the “Whiteplume Mountain Trilogy” A fairy and human get married, a sphinx and a human fall in love. It makes for a good story sometimes, and thats really only one of many examples from the books i own let alone have read!

Well, obviously, I’m referring to a hetero coupling there.

I probably should have added that gay couplings are obviously also perfectly fine, as long as the male/female equivalent of them could potentially produce offspring.

It’s OK in a story, I suppose (kind of…), but I still don’t think it would be advisable IRL.

Stories like that are just supposed to be fiction – not a manual for how you should live your own life.

Fortunately, it’s not something we currently have to deal with IRL.

Ralanost.8913:

Tigaseye.2047:

Guhracie.3419:

Tigaseye.2047:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lorgus.6148:

I doubt that charr standards of seduction would even match our own. For all we know, a charrs attractiveness could be measured by size of the horns, with no merit being given to the outfit at all.

But what if said female charr is trying to attract a handsome human thief that killed an Elder Dragon by joining the Tyria High Varsity Cheerleader team, only to be disappointed by the lack of seductive outfits in the Gem Store? The day the Exemplar outfits are released, is the day of redemption.

She could always transfer to TC Bayside High, where the cheerleader squad is ranked #1 NA, but her family currently doesn’t have the funds to pay for such a move. Still, Tyria High is a fine school for all RPers to attend. A charr can learn a lot about humans there.

Why would a female Charr be trying to attract a human?

Sentient beings who can communicate will find ways to love one another. It’s kind of beautiful, if you don’t think about it too hard. (They’ll find ways to hate each other, too, of course.) /serious note

Well, obviously it’s not as bad as a human sexually abusing an animal, but I still think the general rule is:

If the coupling is incapable of creating offspring (in general, I mean – I’m not referring to specific cases of infertility), it probably shouldn’t be happening at all.

It’s like you have never loved someone before. Once you love someone (which generally isn’t a choice you make) you can’t just turn your heart off.

No, it’s like I have only loved other human beings in that way.

As, I would hope, have we all…

Smooth Penguin.5294:

In real life, women in the military still dress nice when going out. You’re not constantly at war, so there’s no need to be in digies 24/7. Warbands are the same. Females remove their plate armors when looking for mates, and might buy an outfit like the Exemplar.

Zero Day.2594:

Next thing up will be a request for asura in seductive outfits…

Nothing wrong with Exemplar outfits for asura. If an asura were to want to attract that big burly norn that saved her from dragon minions, this would be the perfect outfit for her.

I’m trying not to think would happen to the poor Asura in that kind of totally size inappropriate situation.

Guhracie.3419:

Tigaseye.2047:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lorgus.6148:

I doubt that charr standards of seduction would even match our own. For all we know, a charrs attractiveness could be measured by size of the horns, with no merit being given to the outfit at all.

But what if said female charr is trying to attract a handsome human thief that killed an Elder Dragon by joining the Tyria High Varsity Cheerleader team, only to be disappointed by the lack of seductive outfits in the Gem Store? The day the Exemplar outfits are released, is the day of redemption.

She could always transfer to TC Bayside High, where the cheerleader squad is ranked #1 NA, but her family currently doesn’t have the funds to pay for such a move. Still, Tyria High is a fine school for all RPers to attend. A charr can learn a lot about humans there.

Why would a female Charr be trying to attract a human?

Sentient beings who can communicate will find ways to love one another. It’s kind of beautiful, if you don’t think about it too hard. (They’ll find ways to hate each other, too, of course.) /serious note

Well, obviously it’s not as bad as a human sexually abusing an animal, but I still think the general rule is:

If the coupling is incapable of creating offspring (in general, I mean – I’m not referring to specific cases of infertility), it probably shouldn’t be happening at all.

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

rapthorne.7345:

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

We are getting free armour sets now, so why complain about them selling outfits?

I’m not?

Sorry if it came out that way, I didn’t mean to sound like you were whining.

All I’m trying to say is that there are people, like me, that love outfits.

But when they are making BOTH armour sets and outfits, what is the problem then?

Well, the problem presumably is that people are gazing at a certain part of an outfit and wishing they could either just buy that item, on its own, or that they could buy all of it and only use that item on its own.

Outfits are great for levelling and just great anyway (if you like all the pieces), so they should still exist.

However, if you are past the levelling stage, they are obviously like walking into a store IRL, because you love a pair of boots in the window, only to discover that not only they are only sold as part of a whole outfit (most of which you wouldn’t wear), but that the whole outfit is firmly and irretrievably sewn together!

Yes, there may also be other boots available to wear on their own, but that doesn’t really help someone who has their heart set on a particular pair, which are only available as part of an outfit.

I think the solution is to sell every armour set and outfit as both.

The clipping issue could, presumably, be got around by still selling outfits as outfits primarily, with the option to break them up into pieces, but with the caveat that, as they are primarily outfits, there may be clipping in some cases.

Then people can choose to take the risk, or not and after a while I assume other people will have taken the risk for them and there will be info available online as to which pieces have the worst problems.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tigaseye.2047:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lorgus.6148:

I doubt that charr standards of seduction would even match our own. For all we know, a charrs attractiveness could be measured by size of the horns, with no merit being given to the outfit at all.

But what if said female charr is trying to attract a handsome human thief that killed an Elder Dragon by joining the Tyria High Varsity Cheerleader team, only to be disappointed by the lack of seductive outfits in the Gem Store? The day the Exemplar outfits are released, is the day of redemption.

She could always transfer to TC Bayside High, where the cheerleader squad is ranked #1 NA, but her family currently doesn’t have the funds to pay for such a move. Still, Tyria High is a fine school for all RPers to attend. A charr can learn a lot about humans there.

Why would a female Charr be trying to attract a human?

Because interracial love has no boundaries?

Interracial love doesn’t have, no.

Interspecies love, however, definitely should have.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Lorgus.6148:

I doubt that charr standards of seduction would even match our own. For all we know, a charrs attractiveness could be measured by size of the horns, with no merit being given to the outfit at all.

But what if said female charr is trying to attract a handsome human thief that killed an Elder Dragon by joining the Tyria High Varsity Cheerleader team, only to be disappointed by the lack of seductive outfits in the Gem Store? The day the Exemplar outfits are released, is the day of redemption.

She could always transfer to TC Bayside High, where the cheerleader squad is ranked #1 NA, but her family currently doesn’t have the funds to pay for such a move. Still, Tyria High is a fine school for all RPers to attend. A charr can learn a lot about humans there.

Why would a female Charr be trying to attract a human?

Yeah, they look less evolved in GW2, than the ones in your pics, assuming the evolutionary idea is cat>humanoid cat?

They now look kind of like a missing link.

Not that I dislike them in their current form – I don’t.

But, they do look a bit like walking upright might still be slightly uncomfortable for them.

rapthorne.7345:

Tigaseye.2047:

Another thing is that, surely, they have designed female Charr to be about as conventionally unsexy (from a human POV) as they possibly could?

They could easily have made them big-eyed, long-legged and busty/hourglass-shaped.

But, they didn’t – they made them, basically, look like a tomcat with horns.

Therefore, I can’t help feeling that sexy human clothing looks a little incongruous?

most MMO’s would have gone the cat girl route.

True.

Another thing is that, surely, they have designed female Charr to be about as conventionally unsexy (from a human POV) as they possibly could?

They could easily have made them big-eyed, long-legged and busty/hourglass-shaped.

But, they didn’t – they made them, basically, look like a tomcat with horns.

Therefore, I can’t help feeling that sexy human clothing looks a little incongruous?

Um, yeah, much as I like big cats, I don’t really want to see them (or humanised versions of them) in seductive outfits.

I find the game kind of half-formed, TBH.

The parts of it that are fully formed are great, but the parts that aren’t are almost comically bad.

The fact that people openly admit that some classes are next to useless and that guild chat is full of people laughing about how good they are at cheesing the game are evidence of that.

As a former WoW player, I’m used to a more fully rounded, more balanced, less amateur-feeling, less easily cheesed product.

It’s a very pretty game, though.

Styxx.1564:

Tigaseye.2047:

Zaklex.6308:

Here’s why you shouldn’t expect a toggle off option…when someone pranks you on April Fool’s Day do you get the option to opt out of it? No, so why should anyone expect to get the option to opt-out of A.nets April Fool’s Day joke on all of the players?

Here’s why you should expect a toggle off option:

When someone pranks you on April Fools Day, it never lasts a full 24 hours and when someone pranks you after 12 noon, traditionally, the joke is considered to be “on them”.

Ah… then explain me this.

How do you cope with a game that covers all timezones? Hmmm?

Not really my problem how they cope with that.

Maybe they could use the clock in the game?

Ultimately, though, as long as it was toggle-able, I would be happy to forgive them their faux pas.

Styxx.1564:

But on April 1st, you don’t get to choose if pranks are played on you or not

Or you just stay home and disconnect.

Yeah, you stay home until noon (not for a full 24 hours) and/or get some less annoying friends.

Eight Samurai.6840:

Zaklex.6308:

Here’s why you shouldn’t expect a toggle off option…when someone pranks you on April Fool’s Day do you get the option to opt out of it? No, so why should anyone expect to get the option to opt-out of A.nets April Fool’s Day joke on all of the players?

^ winner winner chicken dinner!

Nope.

Zaklex.6308:

Here’s why you shouldn’t expect a toggle off option…when someone pranks you on April Fool’s Day do you get the option to opt out of it? No, so why should anyone expect to get the option to opt-out of A.nets April Fool’s Day joke on all of the players?

Here’s why you should expect a toggle off option:

When someone pranks you on April Fools Day, it never lasts a full 24 hours and when someone pranks you after 12 noon, traditionally, the joke is considered to be “on them”.

If you/ANet really do insist on people being pranked (whether they like it, or not) for a minimum period of time, then I guess the toggle could only become useable after, say, 5 minutes?

If people were asking to remove the prank entirely, from everyone, I would object to that as strongly as anyone.

No one has asked for that, however.

A toggle option hurts no one.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Remember, people ripped into the work done for the last release to the point where the dev that designed said he’d learned his lesson in regards to pouring so much effort into it. He was really hurt by what people spit out as “feedback” for his effort, so I really wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t want to do anything with it for a while.

I think, if you are someone who makes public entertainment, you just have to be really determined to not take anything to heart.

Honest negative feedback is the best feedback, as it should help you pinpoint any issues.

People just going “Oh yeah, it’s really great, thank you ANet!” about everything is not going to get you anywhere fast.

Most people don’t mean any harm to the devs involved when they criticise a game (most probably don’t even know, or particularly care, who did what), so there is no point in taking it personally.

Obviously, any insulting personal remarks, aimed at specific devs, are not acceptable, though.

Panites.6798:

SAB was terrible. I hate it and so does a lot of the community. Just we don’t whine on the forums like a spoiled child when we don’t get something.

Is this “spoiled child” accusation thing really necessary, on every thread?

We all like different things and have a perfect right to say what we do, or don’t like, on here.

So, it’s not spoiled to ask for something you enjoyed to come back (especially if it would be purely optional).

Jerus.4350:

Andred.1087:

Gibson.4036:

Not to say that I never see vulgar chat. The vast majority of it, though, comes across as teenage boys trying to seem mature (ironically) with drug references or sexual chat.

Almost all of the vulgar or religious themed names I’ve reported seem to be about someone thinking they are being clever and funny, rather than promoting hate.

This is the experience I have had. Mostly kids who don’t get it.

Speaking of which, I’m pretty appalled at the discussion going on in this thread right now. How is this hard to understand? If you know something is considered hurtful in the context you’re about to say it, don’t say it.

You may have a right to say whatever you want, but don’t act like you’re the victim when people treat you like the jerk that you are. People who complain about political correctness are those who refuse to come to terms with the fact that the behavior they learned growing up is not acceptable in society at large.

Ehh, when discussing political correctness it’s not about what is acceptable in society, it’s about what isn’t going to kitten off that one overly up tight guy who is not going to let it go. Those people aren’t worth dealing with so it’s often better to try and avoid it, or not care and not have any issues 99% of the time when you call someone black instead of african american.

Well, in the UK, we would still call someone black, as they’re obviously not African Americans, if they’re British.

The term “African British” doesn’t exist, as far as I know.

Similarly, the word “Asian”, in the UK, generally refers only to people from India, or Pakistan (and maybe Bangladesh etc.); not to people from (or originally from) China/Japan/Singapore etc..

I was on another American forum, a few years ago and an Asian (as in, Chinese) British woman was being reprimanded by American Asians for calling herself “Oriental”, as they found that offensive.

Didn’t matter how much she tried to explain that she didn’t find it offensive, at all, as it wasn’t considered an offensive term in the UK, or that it was awkward for her to use the word Asian to describe herself, as everyone here then assumes you must be Indian/Pakistani, they still insisted she should call herself Asian.

I think, at this point, most British people have just given up and now just call Chinese etc. people Asian as well (at least online), but it is obviously slightly confusing.

So, to a certain extent what is considered right, or wrong, will be cultural, as well.

I liked it for about 10 mins, after that I just wanted to toggle it off, but of course I couldn’t, so I just didn’t play until it was over.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tigaseye.2047:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tigaseye.2047:

scarasyte.4179:

Tigaseye.2047:

As I say, it depends how they died and what the game is normally about.

If a game isn’t normally about the thing your relative died to, you might log on, thinking you would be safe from references (in this case, to flying) only to find yourself immediately confronted by it.

You have to try to fully imagine it from their POV.

Perhaps there is truth to that, but by the logic I’ve seen thus far in this thread I guess my Engie is offensive to victims of terrorism because I run in with bombs and blow people up. Granted I only do that for crowd control but still.

Well, firstly, I don’t think it’s about offense.

It’s about people being, genuinely, upset and unexpectedly reminded of the thing that happened.

I think the word “offended” conjures up an indignant person, who is angry that anyone would have the nerve to mention something.

Whereas, the truth here is more that it may have made a bereaved person truly and unexpectedly upset, unnecessarily.

Secondly, as I say, if you had lost someone to an act of warfare, you would probably either choose not to log onto a game like this, at all; or you would do so fully prepared with the knowledge that it might remind you of what happened.

So, your Engie is a separate issue from an unexpected plane reference, as it is a regular part of the game.

That might conceivably be true if the persons claiming offense had family members or friends who died in that plane. Otherwise, I can’t see it. Saddened that it happened maybe, but bereaved is a strong emotion that people feel for the loss of family or close friends.

Well, yes, obviously.

I’m saying that people who lost people might have been directly affected, if they play the game.

I, obviously, have no idea if that is actually the case, though.

However, even if bereaved people haven’t been directly affected by it, it could be that the people who are concerned about it, are worried that it could potentially have affected bereaved people (whether it actually did, or not).

Meaning that their reaction wouldn’t be so much outrage, as empathy.

It’s quite possible to feel empathy for the people that died and for their families. However they are asking that a company change their planned festivity because the festivity reminds them of it.

How far should that go? My brother, Butchy, was born with hydrocephalus. This is a disorder where the child’s head becomes grossly enlarged. It killed him. When the bobble head April fools day came out, did I post on the forums saying it made fun of a serious disease and that it offended me? When they made the bobble headed toy, did I say that was offensive? No, because I knew it was a April fools joke and the giant, wobbly heads was completely unrelated to him and his death.

Just because they can see a resemblance to this prank and those people’s deaths doesn’t mean that ANet should have not put this in the game.

I guess that is open to debate.

It is a sad fact of life (or death), that if someone dies privately and alone (i.e. not in a large incident), their relatives just have to cope and no one in that situation ever expects the world to stop for their grief.

However, when people die en masse, in a public kind of way, most people do tend to think some kind of reverence should be shown.

Presumably, partly because of the sheer numbers involved and partly because, if it’s been all over the news, no one can really claim they didn’t know…

It’s just the way people tend to think.

I doubt anything will change that.

Sorry to hear about your loss, BTW.

Broom.2561:

Tigaseye.2047:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tigaseye.2047:

scarasyte.4179:

Tigaseye.2047:

As I say, it depends how they died and what the game is normally about.

If a game isn’t normally about the thing your relative died to, you might log on, thinking you would be safe from references (in this case, to flying) only to find yourself immediately confronted by it.

You have to try to fully imagine it from their POV.

Perhaps there is truth to that, but by the logic I’ve seen thus far in this thread I guess my Engie is offensive to victims of terrorism because I run in with bombs and blow people up. Granted I only do that for crowd control but still.

Well, firstly, I don’t think it’s about offense.

It’s about people being, genuinely, upset and unexpectedly reminded of the thing that happened.

I think the word “offended” conjures up an indignant person, who is angry that anyone would have the nerve to mention something.

Whereas, the truth here is more that it may have made a bereaved person truly and unexpectedly upset, unnecessarily.

Secondly, as I say, if you had lost someone to an act of warfare, you would probably either choose not to log onto a game like this, at all; or you would do so fully prepared with the knowledge that it might remind you of what happened.

So, your Engie is a separate issue from an unexpected plane reference, as it is a regular part of the game.

That might conceivably be true if the persons claiming offense had family members or friends who died in that plane. Otherwise, I can’t see it. Saddened that it happened maybe, but bereaved is a strong emotion that people feel for the loss of family or close friends.

Well, yes, obviously.

I’m saying that people who lost people might have been directly affected, if they play the game.

I, obviously, have no idea if that is actually the case, though.

However, even if bereaved people haven’t been directly affected by it, it could be that the people who are concerned about it are worried that it could have affected bereaved people (whether it actually did, or not).

Meaning that the reaction wouldn’t be so much outrage, as empathy.

I disagree, it’s a bit more than empathy. From personal experience I can tell you a nation CAN grieve and have strong feelings of outrage over disasters like this. I’ve seen it here in The Netherlands in the aftermath of the MH17 disaster last year. Hundreds of thousands of people lining the roads when the victims were repatriated, flowers everywhere…. it’s not something to be made light of.

I’m not making light of it.

I’m trying to explain to people, who seem to think that taking “offense” is the only reason anyone has to not support a joke like this, that that is probably not the main motivation for people.

If you read the rest of the thread, heck the entire forum, you will see that there is a prevailing view on here that people only complain about things, because they are taking offense and want to control things via the claim that they are offended.

As opposed to them feeling genuine empathy for other people and other, more subtle, less potentially controlling, emotions.

Obviously, people can and will feel outrage over the RL incidents that occur, but I’m trying to convey the fact that they are not, necessarily, feeling outrage over ANet’s joke, if they complain about it.

Awaltir.5302:

for every person complaining here there is 10 more in game who enjoys it. Also i have never understood the phenomena that when ppl die all in one place it is tragedy but if they die one by one in car crashes etc. it is statistic.
This is just charmless joke based on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CunHb3TJsg if you feel offended then you should go seek help at doctor place rather than forum

Really not sure about that…

When I logged off, DR on my realm was virtually empty.

It’s never, normally, virtually empty at US peak time.

Prior to that, there had been a lot of negative/unhappy comments in /s, on map chat and in guild chat.

Mainly people asking how they could get rid of it.

A few positive ones, too, but mainly negative.

I think the issue was less the “joke” itself, but more that they couldn’t get rid of it.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tigaseye.2047:

scarasyte.4179:

Tigaseye.2047:

As I say, it depends how they died and what the game is normally about.

If a game isn’t normally about the thing your relative died to, you might log on, thinking you would be safe from references (in this case, to flying) only to find yourself immediately confronted by it.

You have to try to fully imagine it from their POV.

Perhaps there is truth to that, but by the logic I’ve seen thus far in this thread I guess my Engie is offensive to victims of terrorism because I run in with bombs and blow people up. Granted I only do that for crowd control but still.

Well, firstly, I don’t think it’s about offense.

It’s about people being, genuinely, upset and unexpectedly reminded of the thing that happened.

I think the word “offended” conjures up an indignant person, who is angry that anyone would have the nerve to mention something.

Whereas, the truth here is more that it may have made a bereaved person truly and unexpectedly upset, unnecessarily.

Secondly, as I say, if you had lost someone to an act of warfare, you would probably either choose not to log onto a game like this, at all; or you would do so fully prepared with the knowledge that it might remind you of what happened.

So, your Engie is a separate issue from an unexpected plane reference, as it is a regular part of the game.

That might conceivably be true if the persons claiming offense had family members or friends who died in that plane. Otherwise, I can’t see it. Saddened that it happened maybe, but bereaved is a strong emotion that people feel for the loss of family or close friends.

Well, yes, obviously.

I’m saying that people who lost people might have been directly affected, if they play the game.

I, obviously, have no idea if that is actually the case, though.

However, even if bereaved people haven’t been directly affected by it, it could be that the people who are concerned about it, are worried that it could potentially have affected bereaved people (whether it actually did, or not).

Meaning that their reaction wouldn’t be so much outrage, as empathy.

TBH, she looks slightly “special”.

The smile, while dancing, is far more normal looking.

Yes, I believe this is thread No. 7776 on the subject?

Nokaru.7831:

Tigaseye.2047:

Secondly, as I say, if you had lost someone to an act of warfare, you would probably either choose not to log onto a game like this, at all

Citation needed.

How is a citation needed?

Especially if you quote the entirety of that sentence, instead of cherry picking.

All I’m saying is that, if you know you have been recently bereaved, via warfare, to the extent that seeing something involving warfare will upset you, you are either not going to knowingly log into a game about warfare, at all, or you are going to be fully prepared for what you will see if you do.

I would have thought that was fairly self explanatory.

Satenia.9025:

Tigaseye.2047:

It’s not hypocrisy, because it concerns two separate sets of people.

The people who lost relatives in the plane crash(es) are almost certainly not the same people who were involved in refugee situations.

It would only be hyprocrisy, if the people who were involved in refugee situations IRL had complained about the game and were then told by the same people, who were later affected by the plane crashes (and the planes in game), that their concerns had no merit.

I doubt that was the case, was it?

I highly doubt that the people who lost someone in the recent plane crash are the (only) ones posting about this on the forums now.

My comment was aimed at the “not directly affected” kind of people, the ones who hear about such things through the media and then decide that their weird sense of justice is somehow being offended by this April fools joke.

Oh, OK.

Well, I think the thing is that people take into account the likelihood of the affected people playing the game, when they think about things like this?

So, rightly or wrongly, they assume people who have been directly affected by refugee situations are less likely to be playing this game, than a Western European who was affected by a plane crash?

I think there were also American people on the plane, as well, so inevitably people will imagine that their relatives could have been directly affected.

Olvendred.3027:

Tigaseye.2047:

The people who lost relatives in the plane crash(es) are almost certainly not the same people who were involved in refugee situations.

The people who lost relatives in the plane crash(es) are almost certainly not the same people complaining on this forum. Just fyi.

IDK, I think people were saying that there were people who were directly affected posting on the German forums?

Unfortuately, the extent of my German is “Der himmel ist blau.”, so I can’t really check it out for myself.

Satenia.9025:

Tragedies happen everyday. Some are covered by the media more intense than others.

Back when LA got “destroyed” and we had those refugee-related activities in the game, none bothered to point out any parallels to the ongoing tragic events in the real world.

This recent plane crash however seems to be an entirely different matter.

Personally, I find such hypocrisy extremely insensitive.

It’s not hypocrisy, because it concerns two separate sets of people.

The people who lost relatives in the plane crash(es) are almost certainly not the same people who were involved in refugee situations.

It would only be hyprocrisy, if the people who were involved in refugee situations IRL had complained about the game and were then told by the same people, who were later affected by the plane crashes (and the planes in game), that their concerns had no merit.

I doubt that was the case, was it?

scarasyte.4179:

Tigaseye.2047:

As I say, it depends how they died and what the game is normally about.

If a game isn’t normally about the thing your relative died to, you might log on, thinking you would be safe from references (in this case, to flying) only to find yourself immediately confronted by it.

You have to try to fully imagine it from their POV.

Perhaps there is truth to that, but by the logic I’ve seen thus far in this thread I guess my Engie is offensive to victims of terrorism because I run in with bombs and blow people up. Granted I only do that for crowd control but still.

Well, firstly, I don’t think it’s about offense.

It’s about people being, genuinely, upset and unexpectedly reminded of the thing that happened.

I think the word “offended” conjures up an indignant person, who is angry that anyone would have the nerve to mention something.

Whereas, the truth here is more that it may have made a bereaved person truly and unexpectedly upset, unnecessarily.

Secondly, as I say, if you had lost someone to an act of warfare, you would probably either choose not to log onto a game like this, at all; or you would do so fully prepared with the knowledge that it might remind you of what happened.

So, your Engie is a separate issue from an unexpected plane reference, as it is a regular part of the game.

scarasyte.4179:

This is more of a T-Pose joke than it is anything else. T-Pose being that standing pose game developers look at when designing character models and armor. But regarding the plane crash issue, people die every day. Should we take death out of video games entirely because it might offend the victims of dead loved ones? This political correctness stuff needs to stop. It’s why we can’t have nice things.

As I say, it depends how they died and what the game is normally about.

If a game isn’t normally about the thing your relative died to, you might log on, thinking you would be safe from references (in this case, to flying) only to find yourself immediately confronted by it.

You have to try to fully imagine it from their POV.

Ugh, I don’t know if I would exactly classify it as insensitive, personally.

However, if affected people are upset, then I guess it must be, to an extent at least.

I’m sure that wasn’t the intention, but perhaps they could have employed a little more awareness and tact, IDK?

The point about it not being insensitive, due to it being a game about war (so, you have bombs and guns and stuff), is not really pertinent, though.

As it is all about player expectations.

When you log onto a game like this, you know you will encounter warfare stuff.

So, if you had recently lost a relative in a war, you might think twice about doing so, if you thought it might affect you adversely.

Whereas, it is not normally a game about flying.

So, if you had lost a family member in a plane crash, you might log-on thinking you could escape from thoughts about it, for a while.

Only to then discover, to your horror, that you were immediately being reminded of it.

So, what was supposed to be a moment of escapism, becomes an unexpected reminder, instead.

Obviously, it’s almost impossible to avoid things that remind you of loved ones and how they passed, when you lose someone, as the world (unfortunately) can’t be made to stop for one grieving person.

However, I suppose in the case of a tragedy like this one, it is well known, so one would probably hope there would be some consideration from entertainment companies etc., at least for a week, or two.

As I say, I’m sure it wasn’t intentional.

But, yes, perhaps a little less than thoughtful, under the circumstances.

Dragon.8612:

Wildkitten.3872:

This from your OP…

“Also I think it would be very big of you, and really appropriate, if you issued just a small apology for the whole thing.”

So yes, you did say they should apologize.

And yes, when you say things like "So I just want to group my thoughts here as a game designer myself " that IS you saying “Hey listen to me cause I am an expert” because there is absolutely NO OTHER REASON TO SAY IT.

Okay last one then bed XD

Yes I did in my original statement say they should apologize. However as I have now stated several time you should READ POSTS AND NOT JUST JUMP TO THE CONCLUSION, I have changed my mind over the course of listening to other people’s comments. I don’t believe they need to apologize I have changed my opinion, and guess why, because that is what people do, they listen to facts. They take their ego out of the equation and don’t care about always being right and they listen to what others have to say and learn from that. That is what I did.

Again for your assault of who I am and what I stated. The same statement could be made by a cook coming in and saying “I am a cook myself and I want to gather my ideas as a cook on the subject.” I’m not saying I am better than you, I am saying I am a game designer here is what I believe in relation to this specific situation. Those other aren’t saying “hey listen to me I am an expert!” They are just stating who they are! I grouped my thoughts as a game designer. You are taking that as a threat for god knows what reason.

Thanks again for posting and have a wonderful night

Don’t worry, anyone with even half a brain knows what you’re saying.

Hopefully, ANet fall into that category.

Bottom line is, it would affect no one adversely to give people an opt-out.

Whereas, it does affect some people adversely to not do so.

Sensible companies try to please as many people as they can – assuming that, by doing so, they hurt no one.

End of story.

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

You’re the one who is trying to foist this on all of us and insist we are given no way out of it.

Even though it would not affect you adversely, in the slightest, if we were.

How immature and selfish is that?

Did I make the game? No, so I can’t be foisting it off on you.

How dare Anet foist only a choice of Mesmers and Rangers and Elementalists and Thieves and Engineers and Guadians and Warriors on us. I want to play as a Paladin and a Monk!!!!

You get things “foisted” on you all the time. This is a MINOR thing. The most obvious affects are able to be turned off. The two things that can’t be you never even notice if you play the game as intended, and yet you still go on about it.

The way you complain it’s like you feel Anet should come to beg your approval for anything they do to the game.

I refer you to my previous post.

We are customers.

We have a right to our opinions.

If you don’t like customers voicing their opinions, I suggest you find something else to read, because this place will get on your nerves.

And I will refer you to my post above.

I too am a customer. Most people love this. Only a few vocal entitlement mentality people don’t. If you don’t like the fact that other customers do like it and will support it bother you, I suggest you find something else to read, because I will get on your nerves.

Yes, we are both customers.

We are both equally entitled to our opinions.

The only difference is that my suggestion would NOT adversely affect you in the slightest.

Whereas, your suggestion (that we should just suck it up, basically) DOES adversely affect me.

See the difference?

I DO like the fact that some other people like it and I want them to continue to be able to enjoy it.

I DON’T like the fact that some people don’t like it (and can’t remove it) and I want them to be given a, purely personal, optional opt-out.

Clear enough for you?

Yes, it’s very clear to me that you have no concept of what Aprils Fools is, how Guild Wars, and every other MMO handles things, and that your life is so adversely affected that your characters arms have to be outstretched for a few hours one time has got you so worked up.

Yes, it’s very clear.

I know what it is.

I also know that, after noon, the joke is traditionally considered to be on them.

Therefore, 24 full hours of this “joke” is not even in the true spirit of April Fools Day, anyway.

As I say, other companies (like Blizzard, for example) also have an April Fools Day event, but it isn’t for the entire day and (if I remember correctly?) is removable.

That is the correct way to approach something like this.

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

You’re the one who is trying to foist this on all of us and insist we are given no way out of it.

Even though it would not affect you adversely, in the slightest, if we were.

How immature and selfish is that?

Did I make the game? No, so I can’t be foisting it off on you.

How dare Anet foist only a choice of Mesmers and Rangers and Elementalists and Thieves and Engineers and Guadians and Warriors on us. I want to play as a Paladin and a Monk!!!!

You get things “foisted” on you all the time. This is a MINOR thing. The most obvious affects are able to be turned off. The two things that can’t be you never even notice if you play the game as intended, and yet you still go on about it.

The way you complain it’s like you feel Anet should come to beg your approval for anything they do to the game.

I refer you to my previous post.

We are customers.

We have a right to our opinions.

If you don’t like customers voicing their opinions, I suggest you find something else to read, because this place will get on your nerves.

And I will refer you to my post above.

I too am a customer. Most people love this. Only a few vocal entitlement mentality people don’t. If you don’t like the fact that other customers do like it and will support it bother you, I suggest you find something else to read, because I will get on your nerves.

Yes, we are both customers.

We are both equally entitled to our opinions.

The only difference is that my suggestion would NOT adversely affect you in the slightest.

Whereas, your suggestion (that we should just suck it up, basically) DOES adversely affect me.

See the difference?

I DO like the fact that some other people like it and I want them to continue to be able to enjoy it.

I DON’T like the fact that some people don’t like it (and can’t remove it) and I want them to be given a, purely personal, optional opt-out.

Clear enough for you?

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

You’re the one who is trying to foist this on all of us and insist we are given no way out of it.

Even though it would not affect you adversely, in the slightest, if we were.

How immature and selfish is that?

Did I make the game? No, so I can’t be foisting it off on you.

How dare Anet foist only a choice of Mesmers and Rangers and Elementalists and Thieves and Engineers and Guadians and Warriors on us. I want to play as a Paladin and a Monk!!!!

You get things “foisted” on you all the time. This is a MINOR thing. The most obvious affects are able to be turned off. The two things that can’t be you never even notice if you play the game as intended, and yet you still go on about it.

The way you complain it’s like you feel Anet should come to beg your approval for anything they do to the game.

I refer you to my previous post.

We are customers.

We have a right to our opinions.

If you don’t like customers voicing their opinions, I suggest you find something else to read, because this place will get on your nerves.

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

The outstretched arms, well, if that annoys you or anyone else, you should really seek counseling, and I mean that in all sincerity because it shows you have deep issues to let a simple few pixels being outstretched in a game bother you.

Thanks so much for your professional diagnosis, doctor.

Because, that is exactly the part that irritates me.

Funny, because other people in my guild have more of an issue with the hat, which I would have thought would be slightly less of a problem, visually speaking, than permanently outstretched arms.

But still, what would I know?

You’re the doctor…

All we are asking for is the option to switch it off, after a while, that’s all.

It shouldn’t be a big deal – other games companies manage it, so why not ANet?

You mean option like Post Processing which does in fact turn off the most obvious parts?

And sorry, but really, if you are bothered by pixels being outstretched in a game, you really do have issues. Don’t need to be a doctor to know it, merely have common sense.

No, I obviously don’t mean that, do I?

Did you read my post, at all?

I don’t want to play with my char’s arms permanently outstretched, in the same way that some people, apparently, don’t want to play in a hat.

I’m not going to lose sleep over it, but I just don’t feel like playing like that.

That is my opinion, it is a perfectly reasonable opinion and I am entitled to it.

Yep, even the most immature, entitlement mentality individuals have a right to their opinion. Fortunately so do people with common sense.

What on earth is your problem?

How does my opinion on this even affect you?

Even if they gave us an option to switch stuff like this off, you could still leave your on, if you wanted, so who is the entitled one?

You, or me?

Who is the one complaining about what Anet does to THEIR game, you or me? Oh, that would be you. Who is the one who let’s pixel arms being outstretched bother them even though during normal gameplay it’s not noticeable, you or me? Once again, that would be you.

The simple fact of the matter every year on every MMO people complain about the April Fool’s gags. People such as yourself simply are incapable of relaxing and enjoying the joke.

OK, you’re boring me now.

Moving on…

…and in case you hadn’t noticed, we are their customers.

This isn’t their private little game.

We pay for it.

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

The outstretched arms, well, if that annoys you or anyone else, you should really seek counseling, and I mean that in all sincerity because it shows you have deep issues to let a simple few pixels being outstretched in a game bother you.

Thanks so much for your professional diagnosis, doctor.

Because, that is exactly the part that irritates me.

Funny, because other people in my guild have more of an issue with the hat, which I would have thought would be slightly less of a problem, visually speaking, than permanently outstretched arms.

But still, what would I know?

You’re the doctor…

All we are asking for is the option to switch it off, after a while, that’s all.

It shouldn’t be a big deal – other games companies manage it, so why not ANet?

You mean option like Post Processing which does in fact turn off the most obvious parts?

And sorry, but really, if you are bothered by pixels being outstretched in a game, you really do have issues. Don’t need to be a doctor to know it, merely have common sense.

No, I obviously don’t mean that, do I?

Did you read my post, at all?

I don’t want to play with my char’s arms permanently outstretched, in the same way that some people, apparently, don’t want to play in a hat.

I’m not going to lose sleep over it, but I just don’t feel like playing like that.

That is my opinion, it is a perfectly reasonable opinion and I am entitled to it.

Yep, even the most immature, entitlement mentality individuals have a right to their opinion. Fortunately so do people with common sense.

What on earth is your problem?

How does my opinion on this even affect you?

Even if they gave us an option to switch stuff like this off, you could still leave yours on, if you wanted, so who is the entitled one?

You, or me?

You’re the one who is trying to foist this on all of us and insist we are given no way out of it.

Even though it would not affect you adversely, in the slightest, if we were.

How immature and selfish is that?

Wildkitten.3872:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wildkitten.3872:

The outstretched arms, well, if that annoys you or anyone else, you should really seek counseling, and I mean that in all sincerity because it shows you have deep issues to let a simple few pixels being outstretched in a game bother you.

Thanks so much for your professional diagnosis, doctor.

Because, that is exactly the part that irritates me.

Funny, because other people in my guild have more of an issue with the hat, which I would have thought would be slightly less of a problem, visually speaking, than permanently outstretched arms.

But still, what would I know?

You’re the doctor…

All we are asking for is the option to switch it off, after a while, that’s all.

It shouldn’t be a big deal – other games companies manage it, so why not ANet?

You mean option like Post Processing which does in fact turn off the most obvious parts?

And sorry, but really, if you are bothered by pixels being outstretched in a game, you really do have issues. Don’t need to be a doctor to know it, merely have common sense.

No, I obviously don’t mean that, do I?

Did you read my post, at all?

I don’t want to play with my char’s arms permanently outstretched, in the same way that some people, apparently, don’t want to play in a hat.

I’m not going to lose sleep over it, but I just don’t feel like playing like that.

That is my opinion, it is a perfectly reasonable opinion and I am entitled to it.

Wildkitten.3872:

The outstretched arms, well, if that annoys you or anyone else, you should really seek counseling, and I mean that in all sincerity because it shows you have deep issues to let a simple few pixels being outstretched in a game bother you.

Thanks so much for your professional diagnosis, doctor.

Because, that is exactly the part that irritates me.

Funny, because other people in my guild have more of an issue with the hat, which I would have thought would be slightly less of a problem, visually speaking, than permanently outstretched arms.

But still, what would I know?

You’re the doctor…

All we are asking for is the option to switch it off, after a while, that’s all.

It shouldn’t be a big deal – other games companies manage it, so why not ANet?

Klonoa.7068:

I can’t believe people are upset about this. It’s for one day and it’s hilarious. Get the stick out of your kitten.

It’s not hilarious.

It was certainly quite fun for a few minutes.

I really don’t understand how you could find it funny, though?

You have seen some comedy shows and stand up comedians, right?

They’re funny, whereas this is just fun (for a while).

ITA, OP.

It should be optional, simple as that.

Then everyone is happy.

…or just don’t read them?

Cazamar.7148:

Read a book? Watch something on Netflix? Play a different game?

Not really the point, is it?

Obviously, we can do something else, but why would a company want us to do that?

The point is, while April Fools jokes are fun, not many people consider them fun if one of them lasts a full 24 hours.

Pretty sure the WoW ones are either a removable buff, or only last a little while?

Can’t really remember TBH, but I’m sure they didn’t last a whole day, whether you liked it, or not.

The only upside is that I’m virtually lag-free in DR, even at maximum graphics, because there is virtually no one online anymore.

Proving that the lag problem is at ANet’s end – not at ours and not at “the middle men’s”.

So, thanks for wasting an hour of my time installing ReduceTheLag (which, not surprisingly, did nothing to help).

Buy some new/more servers, please, ANet.