Guild Wars 2

Behellagh.1468:

A business isn’t always about catering to the capricious will of it’s loudest customers

No, I know.

That is exactly what I am saying.

I also, I think, made it extremely clear that I am talking about the games industry in general; not just Anet (or not even especially Anet) and not about my own personal likes/dislikes/needs.

So, leaving the game wouldn’t help me, would it?

This kind of irrelevant (and slightly hostile) reaction illustrates the problem very well, so thanks for that.

…and with that, I will bid you adieu, as this topic has been talked into the ground, already.

If games devs/companies want to continue to behave like patronising older brothers, who make games for their “entitled” younger brothers, who should be grateful for whatever they’re “given” (including insults), that is up to them, I guess.

I just hope they don’t expect to maximise customer loyalty that way…

Problem seems to be resolved (for my Mes, at least).

Hopefully, everyone else can log-in successfully now, too.

I’ve said all this before, but what it all boils down to, IMO, is devs listening to the wrong type of people and/or being the wrong type of people themselves.

Not just Anet devs, but most games devs, frankly.

By “the wrong type” I mean non-representative of the (typically silent, or at least quiet) majority of players and incapable and/or unwilling to cater to them fairly.

Inevitably, this “We know what’s good for you.” approach of devs, stubbornly doing only what they feel like doing and/or what the vocal minority demand and ignoring (or even treating with outright disdain and disrespect, frankly) the majority, will lead to not just slight deviations in game direction, but complete missteps.

GW2 has a lot of potential, but like many other games, it will never even get close to reaching that full potential while this is happening.

It’s a shame, but people have tried to point this out to devs (of various games) for ages and they just don’t seem to care…

I would never risk investing in the games industry, under these circumstances, frankly.

I’m amazed anyone does.

Other industries are not perfect, either, but never before have I witnessed the complete lack of respect and disdain many devs/games companies seem to have for their customers.

Cowboy builders and other dishonest tradesmen would probably be the closest…

Obviously, this is a huge generalisation – I’m sure there are some good, emotionally intelligent, fair minded devs and hardcore players, as well, but still.

It continues to be a problem.

I totally agree, basically.

It’s one of my main issues with the game – especially if you’re trying to do anything, even vaguely, serious.

What if they made gemstore and/or BL skins rare drops?

So, not enough to really impact their income from the gemstore/gems, but enough to make it slightly more exciting, for those who like getting drops, rather than just currency to buy stuff?

I mean, actually, you’re generally better off with currency (assuming you get enough of it), because then you can buy exactly what you like; rather than getting whatever you end up with, from a drop.

But, I can also see how that is less exciting, for those who like random, valuable, drops.

In the case of BL skins, they could be sold-on on the TP, anyway, if you didn’t want them.

So, wouldn’t make much difference I guess.

I don’t do PVP, or map completion very often, so I’m totally starved of them.

ATM, I’m not even using a new piece of ascended armour, on my Ranger, as I don’t have a transmutation charge and don’t feel like buying them, for that price, when I keep hearing they give them out like candy in PvP…

So, yeah, I would support your suggestion, or maybe if they just made them a reward for PvE and WvW, as well as PvP.

They’re really nice.

I like that they (and the hawk wings) look more like anatomically correct wings than the black/white ones.

I even like the music – especially as I have lag/graphics issues, so it tells me that the glider has redeployed successfully, even if I can’t see it yet.

So, it’s actually of practical help to me.

Would be nice if they were also a backpack, I totally agree.

Starfall Leyline.2481:

There are people who hate the wings, that’s fine. They don’t have to buy them.

I, however, love them, and I was very disappointed that this wasn’t included as a back item. The sad thing is, I don’t really expect Anet to change it. Once it’s done, it’s done. That’s kind of their way. If you had made this a backpack item, you could have gotten even more money out of me.

If you do change it? Well, I’ll be pleased.

They may do…

After all, they made the black/white wings, which were originally just a backpack, into a glider, due to popular demand.

^ Thanks, Irene.

Same problem trying to log-in on my Mesmer, in Lion’s Arch.

Can log-in on another character, who is in DR, absolutely fine.

I don’t mind, as long as it’s a choice and they don’t make items, that are sold separately, artificially expensive.

The problems, obviously, arise when you can’t get something, without buying a whole bundle of stuff you don’t want.

This thread is, ultimately, pointless.

Most of the not-at-all representative of the playerbase people, on the WoW forum, said they didn’t want flying.

So, Blizz removed flying from WoD.

The forums then erupted, once the regular players (finally) found out and half the playerbase left…

Not just because of flying.

In fact, I suspect the negative changes to LFR and the attempt to force people into the ninja-ridden hellhole, that is WoW (non personal loot) PUG raids, had even more of an impact.

But, it was definitely a major reason.

If the removal of flying is a reason to leave a game; no mounts are definitely a reason to not join one.

Moral of the story?

Listening to the typical games forum poster gets you nowhere fast and employing them (if they then get to make decisions about the game) is, basically, like making a conscious choice to go slowly bankrupt.

Sad, but true.

zenleto.6179:

It’s not terribly original, Tiga. You might want to google Daoc RvR. WvW is a lot like the lower level battlegrounds in Daoc in feel and less like the end game Frontier which was a vast open map.

Oh, well, fair enough.

It felt fairly original, to me (with player commanders etc.), but I haven’t played the game you mention.

arcorian.2183:

A 3 years old post… and still not fix on this issue. Recommendation: just copy WoW targeting system and thats it. Its a pain in the back playing with this annoying targeting system. Don’t try to improve anything, just copy it from WoW

It’s not good, I totally agree.

However, I think it may be the same in WoW?

Pretty sure hitting tab, in WoW, targets yellow mobs first, too (for some unknown reason).

Crazy design, but there you go.

I used to do a lot of BGs, in that game and I had to use another key (the one above tab) for “target nearest enemy player”.

Even then, I’m not sure it was always, actually, the nearest enemy player? But still.

At least it was a player and not just random wildlife.

I agree, basically.

WvW is, or could be, one of the most engaging things, in the game and also, feels like a relatively original concept.

…and yet, it feels neglected.

Apparently they are working on WvW stuff, though, so I guess we will have to wait and see.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Tigaseye.2047:

If random people can start their own forums and keep them properly running and moderated, I’m not sure why a multi-million dollar company can’t seem to manage it?

Random fun-fact. Reddit was actually valued at around $500 million at one point in 2014.

Yeah, that’s totally insane…

But, I didn’t mean Reddit – I meant random people who like shoes, or cars, or collect football shirts, or whatever.

Individuals like that have started hobby forums and they work and are run better than this one.

They’re probably, at least originally, off-the-shelf templates, but they have their own URL.

I don’t really know how it works, as I’ve never done it, but you can get free templates.

As opposed to using a pre-existing forum, like Reddit.

Which just seems weird, when you have your own official website.

IDK, maybe I’m missing something?

Forgot to add that I’m not interested in the “reward”, either.

So, seeing as I have sudden lag spikes (even on low graphics settings) that make regular jumping almost impossible to do accurately, I would have to be some kind of idiotic masochist, with no foresight and completely unrealistic expectations, to even try.

But, thanks for your input, anyway, Reaver.

I’m sure Anet appreciates all your unasked-for fighting on their behalf.

Makes us all totally change our opinions and love their not-at-all grindy old game just that little bit more, I’m sure.

Vayne.8563:

Tigaseye.2047:

Vayne.8563:

Plyply.8621:

Soon.5240:

I’m sure the White Knights “protecting” Anet will find some way to blame you….

You’re so “Vayne”. I bet you think this comments about you! You’re so “Vayne”, I bet you think this comments about you, don’t you don’t you….

That’s very cute. I’ve never heard that before…except like…every day in my guild. And you know the song that this comment was based on? That song WAS about me. lol

Are you Warren Beatty?

If so, only one verse was about you, apparently.

Or maybe you’re one of the other two unknown people?

Re. Warren, that had to hurt – he thought the whole song was about him…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain

That’s a different song. You’re so Vayne is about me. lol

lol, OK.

Vayne.8563:

Plyply.8621:

Soon.5240:

I’m sure the White Knights “protecting” Anet will find some way to blame you….

You’re so “Vayne”. I bet you think this comments about you! You’re so “Vayne”, I bet you think this comments about you, don’t you don’t you….

That’s very cute. I’ve never heard that before…except like…every day in my guild. And you know the song that this comment was based on? That song WAS about me. lol

Are you Warren Beatty?

If so, only one verse was about you, apparently.

Or maybe you’re one of the other two unknown people?

Re. Warren, that had to hurt – he thought the whole song was about him…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_So_Vain

If you have enough Vitality and Toughness, you should be able to run through them, dodging every now and again and survive them, until you’ve lost them.

If you’re in full Zerker gear, I have no idea though, as I basically only did HoT in my WvW gear.

I hate having to stop and kill everything, in openworld, too.

Especially as everything respawns so fast.

So, I don’t.

I agree – they would be a very cute mini.

ETA: Oh, it’s a necro.

Well, they would still make a cute mini…

Are you on the 64 bit client?

It certainly helps (after it settles down), from the point of view of crashing.

Although, it’s a bit of a hassle to have to implement.

Not sure if it helps with bugs like this, though?

Pandaman.4758:

Fun, but unrewarding.

It is unrewarding.

I don’t understand why they try to dissuade people from doing WvW, by making things like Fractals far more rewarding?

WvW maps are almost empty.

That is partly due to the new maps, but it is also due to an ongoing problem with lack of adequate rewards.

Why not make WvW and Fractals equally rewarding?

They are, at least, equally challenging.

Not that I think they should nerf Fractal rewards, as well, or anything…

I know, I haven’t even tried it.

I used to like jumping, in things like Mario and Sonic, but online games, played on PCs/laptops are not the same as offline ones, played on consoles.

Also, I play on the US servers, despite living in the UK and have pretty severe lag and FPS issues, even when it comes to doing normal activities in the game.

So there is no way I would be able to do something like this.

I just know, in advance.

Maybe I could do it, if I turned my graphics down to lego brick mode, but who wants to do that, to a beautiful game like this?

I’ve just come to terms with the fact that I can’t do certain things and when I have finally got tired of the things I can do, I will only log for the log-in rewards, or not at all.

I think they should consider different people’s situations, but with the current prevailing attitude, in the gaming industry, I suspect that is a pipe dream.

So, the only real option is probably going to be to vote with our wallets, from now on.

One thing all companies need is money and that is obviously something we can choose to give them, or not.

Aeon.4127:

Charrbeque.8729:

Aeon.4127:

Charrbeque.8729

These pics are great lol, Feel free to post mopre people *Remember to hide all names though as it would be considered “blame and shame” *. These pics are done well

Those aren’t my screenshots. I saved them to my computer. They were posted on the botter’s public forums* by one of the players botting the jumping puzzle.

*Public forums meaning no registration is required to read them.

Speaking of which, 1 of the botters posted this on their forums:

So I added another botter as a friend to check their AP out of curiosity, but the list showed them offline. This means one of two things: they either blocked me or reported me. Considering that I never spoke to them or gave any indication that I was at the computer, I assume they didn’t block, but reported me instead.

I started checking to see if I was being reported by every fellow botter I saw. At least half are reporting me, which means they’re probably reporting you, too. It’s probably safer if the botting program didn’t put you under the starting area so that others would know for sure that you’re botting.

It’s disgusting to think that the main source of ban reports that ArenaNet reviews comes from our own ******* community.

Sounds like the botters are turning on each other. LOL

Note the bolded part in the quote. I’m curious as to how they would know who is reporting them or even if they were reported.

Wow……. lmao! Good, serves them right those bot cheating low life pleb scums! Cant wait to see forum post like "Banned for no “Reason” I will for once be overwhelmingly joyful to see another ban wave. For those botting that are reading this, you are not safe, FT2Bot most likely will still lead to your main account, that gold goes somewhere and they will find out! *laughs maniacally * “Muahahahahaha”!

“Disgusting”, eh?

Apparently he’s never heard “There’s no honour amongst thieves.”.

Will they even really care if they’re banned, though?

If you only play a game, like this, because you can cheat the system for gold, does it really bother you that much when you’re caught?

Most of us don’t cheat because; a) we don’t see the point of playing games, if you’re going to cheat and/or b) we think it’s wrong and/or c) we don’t want to get banned.

If you don’t agree with the first two things, will you care that much if you’re banned?

Obviously, you hope you won’t be caught, but the thought of trying to play the game without cheating, is presumably so heinous to you, that it’s always going to be worth the risk.

It’s another problem with sub-free games.

They starve you of gold and encourage this type of behaviour.

Sub games also have bots, but it’s more about goldsellers who need to make extraordinary amounts of gold to sell, or people who get bored playing the game normally but still want to progress, or people who are very greedy when it comes to making gold, or a way of easily getting other forms of currency, or ratings, or whatever.

It’s normally not so much about just making ends meet, ingame.

Whereas, in this kind of game, fairly ordinary players are probably more tempted to risk botting, just to try to make enough gold/mats to get what they feel they need/want.

Behellagh.1468:

if you think reddit is a wretched hive of scum and villainy

It’s more the opposite, in my case.

Reddit seems to be a jumbled, albeit delightful, mess; mostly full of threads about fluffy bunnies and cupcakes and how everything is simply lovely.

Which is nice, in a way, but you can’t easily find anything of any real importance.

Then, when you eventually do, the layout of the threads is kind of annoying and basic looking.

It’s not fun to use.

Not that this is, either, but for different reasons.

Basically, I think companies should use their official forums, if they have them and make sure those forums are up to a certain standard.

If random people can start their own forums and keep them properly running and moderated, I’m not sure why a multi-million dollar company can’t seem to manage it?

^ That is not how we think about things, in the West.

Companies can try to treat the customer badly, but most of us simply won’t tolerate it.

We won’t be dragged back into the Dark Ages, in that regard, simply because some people, somewhere in the world, apparently don’t yet believe they are entitled to be treated with respect, as a customer.

If companies want to behave like that, I suggest they go and do their business (both literally and figuratively) elsewhere.

This isn’t just here – it’s happening elsewhere, as well.

I don’t know whether the problem is coming from the top, in games lately?

Or whether (probably more likely) it is the new crop of games devs, who are determined to take games in a very specific type of direction (mainly backwards!) and forget the majority of the players’ wants/needs?

But, yes, it seems to be an industry trend.

It’s a mistake, but there you go.

Sarevok.2638:

The last few weeks have been far worse due to the horrendous balance issues with the game in sPvP and how that filters through to PvE. Warriors and Thieves have been kicked down the crapper, metacrap has been all the rage and not even having a pro-team QUIT ON STREAM is enough to get Anet to push out more MEANINGFUL BALANCE CHANGES.

I’m happy to see all the negativity, because it’s reflective of my own feelings on the PvP situation.

They were both very OP, in WvW.

Thieves weren’t considered to be good, in zergs, but they were the kings of ganking.

I don’t do sPVP, so I can’t comment on that, but I’m assuming they were probably OP there, too?

It’s possible they have been over-adjusted the other way, or that they just got used to being Gods.

That often happened in WoW.

Something very OP got nerfed slightly and its players, who were generally the type of players who only ever played OP classes, weren’t used to ever losing.

So, if they started losing, they extrapolated from that, that they must have been over-nerfed.

Even though, in many cases, they were still stronger than some other classes had ever been…

Not saying that is the case here, but it is something that happens.

Either way, both classes were extremely OP, previously, so it’s kind of hard to be too upset for them, now.

Especially as they were, almost certainly, totally scaring off newer players.

Especially newer players who were playing less strong classes.

When I first started playing, on Ranger, thieves were one (or, at most, two) shotting me from stealth and trying to fight warriors was a total non-starter.

If I knew a thief was lurking around (as they ALWAYS were, then, as they were so OP), I just didn’t try to go anywhere, anymore.

That, pretty obviously, isn’t good for the game.

Of course, things should be made fair, if they really aren’t ATM, but still.

I’m all for meaningful balance changes, but those take time and just making those two classes stronger again, would obviously just return us to the previous (totally undesirable) situation.

Pandaman.4758:

Yargesh.4965:

Why wasn’t this merged a long time ago?

I suspect the moderators working over the holidays don’t have permission to move threads, only to delete them and issue infractions.

I know, it’s an absolute joke.

Not that I personally care if this thread is merged, or not.

But the rest of the “moderation” has been totally unacceptable.

Raziel.4216:

No.
When asked about why feelings were valid you claimed “Some people have a sense for these things”
I was talking to the guy who has access to some external info + some weird interpretation of patch notes that somehow back his claims.

OK, well I don’t know what he may have said previously, on other threads, but he didn’t say that, at all, in the post you were responding to.

Here it is:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

This post and your reply to it is all I was responding to.

Not some previous conversation you two may, or may not, have been having, on some other thread.

This comment is the first and only post, made by this poster, in this thread.

So, I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Swagger.1459:

Tigaseye.2047:

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Not a valid argument, unless you can prove that your “sense” is somehow a valid predictor when compared to real evidence.

Tigaseye.2047:

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

You’d need a huge sample size for that to be valid.
My guild is very active, can I extrapolate that and assume that everyone else’s is doing just fine?
No, that’d be just as flawed.
Same for WvW maps, we know they’re doing bad not because we “feel” it, we’ve Arenanet telling us they’ll try to fix it.
Bellyfeelings are subjective and not a valid source of info.

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

…and in fact, one could argue that people’s feelings about things are, quite possibly, more important than evidence, when it comes to frivolous things, like games.

As, if people don’t “feel” like playing a game, for whatever reason (proven, or otherwise), they don’t have to.

Swagger.1459:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm that wasn’t my quote… You got it mixed up with someone else…

Yeah, sorry Swagger.

I tried to edit, to delete a long swathe of quoted text and the first time I tried I must have left both your names, as it didn’t post at all and by the time I got to redo it, I must have deleted the wrong name.

For some reason, this forum can take up to a minute to load a reply/edit.

So, by then, I have often totally lost the will to live, frankly.

I’ve never had this problem with any other forum.

Or not to anywhere near this extent, anyway.

Haha I forgive you

See, these broken forums are another reason ncsoft should dump more money into Anet

lol, yes quite.

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

Sure, just don’t call’em valid sources of info when one is requested to check the validity of an argument, and make sure you admit you lack any real info to back up the “game’s dying!!!1!, mass exodus!! everyone abandon ship!!” arguments.
There’s way too many people throwing the doom predictions around like they’re facts. When a source is requested, people have “numbers”, heck someone even had “a conference call” between important people and “financial documents” to prove his point, he just forgot to link’em.
Remember, you’re entitled to your opinion, your “bellyfeelings”, but not your facts, reality checks are not limited to science projects.

As far as I’m aware, no one has called any opinion they have stated, on this thread, a “valid source of info”.

I certainly didn’t, anyway.

That is entirely your choice of words.

You’ve, basically, invented your own totally arbitrary criteria, which you apparently think we are all supposed to adhere to, while posting on this forum.

Then, as if that wasn’t enough, you have not only accused people of not adhering to your arbitrary (and rather bizarre) criteria, but you have also (totally falsely) accused them of wrongly describing their comments as adhering to that criteria.

That isn’t at all reasonable, you know.

As I say – we can say what we like, when it comes to personal opinion about the game.

If we say we “feel” something, that is fine and totally acceptable.

We don’t have to try to prove it.

If you don’t like people posting their unproven feelings and impressions, I suggest you either try to adapt, or avoid all forums, from now on.

Not just this one.

Because forums everywhere are full of people saying “I think” and “I feel”, all the time and that isn’t going to change any time soon.

Nor should it.

Palador.2170:

Soleil.1304:

Let’s talk about lore more.

Convince me that, although the mobs in the game use mounts, the intelligent races in GW2 NEVER thought about using mounts because:

Do NOT give me dev answers or mechanics answers here. Lets talk lore.

Okay, let’s talk lore. And bathrooms.

Bathrooms exist in GW2 lore. Not only do we kind of need something along those lines, but there were some NPCs that discussed them back in old Lion’s Arch (before Scarlet blew it up). But as you explore the game, you don’t ever see them, much less get to use one. They’re there, they’re just not shown.

Several things work like this with the lore and the game, mounts are one of them. If you join the Priory, you get to see the ghost of a dwarven drake mount. And let’s not forget Taimi pretty much uses Scruffy as a mount, often riding on his shoulder as he goes where she directs. And, of course, some NPCs in HoT use them. Beyond this, they’re assumed to be there, somewhere in the background but not shown.

Now, why do we, the Player Characters, not use mounts? Well, we have something better, that’s why. And no, I’m not talking about waypoints and asura gates.

You see, taking care of a mount is a lot of work. Food, grooming supplies, riding gear, and figuring out what to do with it when we’re someplace where we can’t have it with us. In Tyria, we can do better than that. We don’t need to bring a faster animal to ride, we can BECOME the faster animal. Wolves, jaguars, snow owls… all it takes is a small potion or charm. Fast as any mount (lore-wise) and smarter too, we can travel the world without the burdens of caring for an animal big enough to carry us. It’s simple, and actually fairly cheap.

It’s not that we’ve not gotten to horses yet, it’s that we’re past that stage thanks to magic.

Yes, so that suits the WoW Druid type player.

The kind of player who enjoys being their own mount.

What about all the players who prefer the idea of having a mount, not being one?

All the non WoW Druids?

If people could become their own vehicles IRL, I bet a lot of people would still prefer the idea of using vehicles; not being them.

I just think this lore is a bit dodgy…

It assumes that being your own transport is always better than using a vehicle.

Which isn’t, necessarily, how most people feel about the situation, at all.

Loner.3452:

Huh? we already have broomstick and flying carpet…but I guess a rideable centaur would not hurt XD …if mount would be a thing make it like broomstick and flying carpet, where your speed is not affected by it, please.

Problem is, no one seems to use those mounts, as they offer absolutely nothing in terms of functionality and (from what I understand) you are dismounted immediately, on entering combat.

Much as people like nice mounts, they don’t want to feel as though they are totally pointless.

A bit like, it wouldn’t matter how much you liked cars, you would probably still feel silly riding around in one at walking speed.

Especially if it then disappeared, as soon as anyone else even touched it…

So, I think, to be popular, the mounts would have to offer a speed boost and the rider would have to be non-dismountable.

That potential advantage would then have to be off-set by a basic one being provided free in-game (like the basic glider).

My only concern then would be the possibility of even worse lag/fps.

If that could be avoided, somehow, then they would be fine, IMO.

Soleil.1304:

Obtena.7952:

Nothing in that link is a stock price and furthermore, that’s NCSoft financial report, not ANet; this just reinforces the fact you don’t understand the relationship these two companies have and how one impacts the other. Let’s put aside the fact you have no idea about the ‘business’ stuff. Let’s move on to what you wanted to focus on:

I’m still waiting for you to explain how mounts is the only thing that will save the game … based on a logical argument related to lore.

I never said that it was the “only” thing. I only claimed that it is “the” thing. A good income will trickle down to resolving the other issues as well. A well-paid engineer can do amazing things a low-budget one will give you low-quality results. None of us want that. As players, we should invest in the game ourselves. Starting with mounts.

The thing is, I’ve already spent enough on this game, that I really shouldn’t spend any more for about 2 years…

But, that is because I joined later than most, am into fashion and minis and stuff, don’t have multiple cheap accounts to milk for log-in rewards, didn’t enjoy speedrunning dungeons and don’t enjoy playing the TP.

So, they have already got plenty out of people like me (i.e. mainly women, frankly), but I know that there are other players, mostly male players, who love mounts and who would, almost certainly, be tempted by them, if they were good looking and functional.

TBH, it’s probably already too late, for many of the existing players, though…

As many of them have this multiple log-in rewards thing sewn-up, to the extent where they don’t need to ever buy anything with real money, ever again (if they ever even did).

That is why Anet should really have done this before.

Before they put the original game on deep discount sale and made it, essentially, free to make gold, for anyone who took advantage of that, just by logging on every day and spending their laurels cleverly.

Not saying they couldn’t still make money from the right mounts; they almost certainly could.

But, they would have to attract new players; ones without multiple accounts.

The mounts might be enough to do that, or they might not, at this point.

As I say, from a financial perspective, they really should have done this earlier.

Serophous.9085:

Soleil.1304:

Blude.6812:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-merged/first

OLD conversation.

Mods please merge.

This is not a conversation only about mounts. It’s also about saving this game.

I for one know for sure that if ANET makes more money, the better the game will become. Skilled engineers working on a game that’s already good is a recipe for success.

Again, this is about saving the game and mounts is a MUST for that. I’ve already agreed to many posts suggesting other improvements. Mounts is an easy addition that will change gw2 for the better forever.

more money =/= better game. Or else WoW would never have fallen as much as it has

Interesting you should mention WoW…

One of the main reasons WoW lost half of its playerbase, in WoD, was because Blizzard removed flying.

It’s not the only reason, by any means, but it’s one of the main ones.

Taking something away is worse than not adding it, certainly, but still.

The WoW situation illustrates that most people do care about mounts.

In that case, their grounded flying mounts, specifically.

As I say, I wouldn’t expect much support for this suggestion, on this forum.

As this is a private forum, for people who have bought the game and/or HoT and is, mostly, full of the people who still remain in the game, despite it being mount-free.

I doubt many of the people who left the game still post on here, very often…

…and obviously, the people who never joined the game, in the first place, due to it not having mounts, don’t (as they can’t).

So, this forum can never hope to reflect the typical views of most of the gamers who could be potential customers.

I don’t personally mind if Anet want to remain niche, from this point of view.

As I say, I’m not mount obsessed and I’m not a shareholder, so it doesn’t directly affect me.

But, if they have been acting like it’s the right choice, from a purely maximising profits point of view, they are almost certainly incorrect.

As Blizzard’s experiences, over the last year or two, have clearly shown.

Squee.7829:

Mounts (and even horses specifically) are sometimes referenced in really obscure places. The novels had horses randomly in a field and I’m pretty sure there’s a story about King Thorn riding or being knocked off of a horse sometime when he was alive.
In Guildwars 1 dwarves often rode on dolyaks (that loved knocking you down all the time) and even drakes. Canthans rode on turtles.
So Tyria has learned all about riding on animals, it’s just they choose not to because it’s an obsolete mode of transportation. The same reason we don’t ride horses today.
And the same reason people will stop buying cars if we ever discover a way to teleport to where we need to go for a few dollars.

Firstly, we can’t teleport to where we want to go.

We can teleport to near where we want to go, at best and quite often, not even that near, at all.

Secondly, even if we could teleport right to the front door of the place we want to go, people like mounts.

I realise most of the players this game has managed to retain either don’t like them, or (more likely) don’t care that much either way.

But, this game could have had far more players than that.

People who particularly like mounts will have, inevitably, steered away from playing the game, on hearing it doesn’t have (and will never have) them.

Or, they will have left, after hearing that.

At this point, I doubt Anet will change their minds, but that doesn’t change the fact that it was, almost certainly, a mistake to ignore the millions of (especially) boys/men who love them, possibly more than they like anything else in games.

Every single guy I ever spoke to, in WoW, was obsessed with mounts and spent inordinant amounts of time trying to acquire new ones.

I would happily bet everything I own that the vast majority of them would still have loved mounts and collected them, even with waypoints in that game; because, it wasn’t about getting from A to B.

They could have done that on just a basic mount and not bothered with collecting any of the others.

If that is, even vaguely, typical, Anet have seriously missed a trick here and continue to do so, but whatever.

I’m not their accountant.

BTW, just asked my boyfriend if he would still use a car, if we had similar waypoints IRL to the ones in GW2 and he said he still would, now and then.

So, yeah…

vesica tempestas.1563:

i will ignore the ad hominem and qoute yourself:

’I just hate it when developers keep bringing back old stuff. If you like to repeat history and keep doing what you’ve been doing, you should go back to WoW. They’ll give you lots of the “same thing.”

Mounts that give speed boosts are old hat, they introduce lazy ‘ride past content’ behaviour, unless as i said at best they dont offer a speed boost’

The irony, in this game, is that people habitually skip things, in instances (like dungeons) and yet they, apparently (according to you), shouldn’t be allowed to skip things, via mounts, in openworld.

It’s all the wrong way around…

Instances are the places where things should be more intense and unskippable; not openworld.

You shouldn’t have to go to an instance for a rest, lol.

Not only that, but people can already run (and/or stealth – depending on class) past stuff in openworld, anyway.

Mounts wouldn’t, necessarily, change that and even if they did, so what?

This prevailing “No fun must be had.” attitude is just bizarre.

I’m not used to being the least serious person in a group and quite frankly, I don’t like it…

Also, this attempt people are making, to cover-up their actual, un-fun, Competitive Dad type personalities, with corny jokes, is not helping anything.

It’s just highlighting how ridiculously overly-serious games have become, lately, in contrast.

Soleil.1304:

I just tried to rationalize a world without mounts again. Nope, still convinced that intelligent beings would have mounts.

I know.

It’s just ridiculous.

Like you would, if waypoints existed IRL, say “Well, I could ride around in a car, but of course I have that set of waypoints that take me not very close to where I want to go, at all, at a relatively high cost (if you add it all up, over time).”.

No, of course you wouldn’t – you’d use your car, or a combination of the two, depending on exactly where you were going and how much of a hurry you were in.

Much like, IRL, where you have public transportation, that does much the same thing, of taking you somewhere, but not necessarily very near where you want to go (albeit, not almost instantly).

Most people still use their own cars, most of the time and probably would do so even more, if they could carry them with them on public transport and use them at the other end, to finish their journey.

In fact, most governments can’t get us out of our cars, at all, despite trying for years.

Palador.2170:

That studio was a child (in company terms). Now, it’s grown up. It’s at that horrible teenage stage where everything is oh so ungodly serious. Most of the stuffed toys are gone from the bedroom, and the few that were too precious to throw away are hidden out of sight. This change was caused by how much they grew up and out to make GW2 and keep it running.

In time, they may reach the next level of being comfortable with who and what they are, and become more stable again. But for the moment, you can tell that ANet still sometimes flounders between trying to be a big company, and wanting to have some fun. If/when the hardcore content approach fails, I expect a period of “black clothes and black hair dye” from them as well.

lol, love it.

Perfect analogy.

Of course, it’s probably not helped, at all, by the people who are now (almost certainly) working in gaming.

You know?

All those people on games forums, two or three years ago, who hated anything fun and wanted everything to be super grown-up and serious?

They probably left college and are now the new wave of games devs.

It may be time for me to take my next, long, game-free period.

I did it before, so I can easily do it again, if necessary.

^ It’s not really hypocritical, as you can always do stuff in a group, if you want to.

Yes, you may trivialise it, by doing so (if it doesn’t scale), but you can do it.

Whereas, if something is made so it has to be done in a group and is impossible to solo (assuming that is the case, here), then you are effectively removing the soloer’s way of playing the game.

At least, in that way.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Aidenwolf.5964:

ProtoGunner.4953:

The biggest problem with all those whiners is that they interpret their own opinion into the minds of everyone.

Many people like to have skill challenges hard/group content, just be cause you don’t think it’s fun you don’t have to come here like 10’000 others and whine about it for the 10’000th time and tell that it is not fun.

Ironically your post sounds whiney.

The 10,000 number you used twice to emphasize your point is also very ironic. Talking about what you don’t like is actually better than leaving the game as many have done over the last 3 years. Whichever of us is in the minority we’ll soon know. Whining about whining is the new meta.

Whining about whining isn’t whining. But I understand that you hate the game.

It is.

There is nothing in the definition of the word “whine” that states it can’t be used to describe a complaint about a whine.

I know, totally.

Apparently, much like eating our greens IRL, it’s all about what we “need” in games, now.

Not about what most people want, or would find fun, at all.

Games appear to have become a sort of weird moral lesson in hard work and perseverance.

Ironically, really, given that the more you play, the less actual real life work you’re likely to get done…

Maybe that is the whole idea?

As the computers and robots take over our jobs and render most of us useless (as it is widely predicted they soon will), we won’t even notice, or care, as we’ll be too busy working in games…

OK, that’s just too twisted to even think about. xD

(not the robots taking over part – the part where we wont even notice the difference)

Agemnon.4608:

Europe tends to be more socially liberal than America, which unfortunately edits outs swears, violence, and other “inappropriate” elements far too often. It’s why I don’t like big corporate fake “translations” of animes and prefer fan translations.

In other words consider being thought of in Europe as a gift assuming localizations are different from America to Europe. Some stuff deemed “inappropriate” in America is shown in even kid shows in Japan, don’t know about Europe however but do know they have nude billboards so make of that what you will.

Unfortunately, an American translator won’t keep true to the original and think to himself, “Whoa! That would offend a lot of Americans, better delete the episode or at least change some things around utterly obliterating the original author’s intended feel and message!”

Like I said fan dubs and subs are typically better for this reason as they keep the originals.

Pretty sure we don’t have nude billboards in the UK (which is, obviously, part of the EU)?

There have been nude, but with all the important bits strategically covered, ones; but, don’t think that is what you meant?

We have nudity in TV shows and stuff, occasionally, but normally after the 9pm watershed.

I’m for mounts, but they would need to also provide a free (or near-free) one, ingame, to make sure things remained balanced.

I think 1700 gems would be a bit much, though.

I think 1000-1500 gems would be nearer the mark (depending on how elaborate the particular mount was).

Rio.4259:

What will mounts save the game from, exactly? Un-crowded NPCs? I don’t really miss seeing a mammoth’s backside every time I need to sell mah goods.

They wouldn’t have to introduce massive ones.

They could just be big cat-sized, or horse-sized, at most.

I guess they would have to make slightly larger ones for Charr and Norns, but only proportionately so.

They could also exclude them from certain areas – like the areas around trading posts and banks etc..

No real need to ride them into the bank, after all.

Kreejaffa.3682:

Soleil.1304:

An entire world with no mounts for player NOR NPC’s is just too unrealistic.

Should I mention that some mobs in HoT have mounts?

Theory debunked. Mounts exist.

In all serious though, this horse has been beaten into the ground so many times we should have held a funeral 50 times over by now. Mounts are not needed. Waypoints exist for FTM (faster than mount) travel. There are various methods of gaining speed boosts already in the game to help you get those waypoints unlocked.

Mounts do exist in the form of cosmetic toys. Magic carpet, broomstick. Not many, but a couple.

Now go eat some pie.

Hmmm…

“not needed”.

Always find that argument strange, in games.

Like most people are only concerned about need.

Not fun, or interest, or added depth; just “need”.

I’m not even that desperately into mounts, personally (always more of a pet person); but I also know how unlike most gamers that makes me.

Most people (or most men) are mount-obsessed.

Just like most men are car obsessed, IRL.

If you were a games dev, you would likely ignore that fact and talk only about “need”, at your peril.

Raziel.4216:

Tigaseye.2047:

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Not a valid argument, unless you can prove that your “sense” is somehow a valid predictor when compared to real evidence.

Tigaseye.2047:

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

You’d need a huge sample size for that to be valid.
My guild is very active, can I extrapolate that and assume that everyone else’s is doing just fine?
No, that’d be just as flawed.
Same for WvW maps, we know they’re doing bad not because we “feel” it, we’ve Arenanet telling us they’ll try to fix it.
Bellyfeelings are subjective and not a valid source of info.

Of course it isn’t a “valid source of info” – it’s just a hunch (albeit, possibly, a somewhat informed one).

This isn’t a science project; it’s just a forum.

People are allowed to post their feelings here, too.

…and in fact, one could argue that people’s feelings about things are, quite possibly, more important than evidence, when it comes to frivolous things, like games.

As, if people don’t “feel” like playing a game, for whatever reason (proven, or otherwise), they don’t have to.

Swagger.1459:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm that wasn’t my quote… You got it mixed up with someone else…

Yeah, sorry Swagger.

I tried to edit, to delete a long swathe of quoted text and the first time I tried I must have left both your names, as it didn’t post at all and by the time I got to redo it, I must have deleted the wrong name.

For some reason, this forum can take up to a minute to load a reply/edit.

So, by then, I have often totally lost the will to live, frankly.

I’ve never had this problem with any other forum.

Or not to anywhere near this extent, anyway.

You can get by without extra bag slots, but it’s a relief to have them.

Otherwise, he will, almost certainly, find himself constantly getting the inventory full thing, at inconvenient moments.

The main problem with them is that they are not account-wide.

So, if you switch mains, you have to buy them all again…

TBH, I think they’re more than a little overpriced for something you can’t even use on all characters.

I think you should really be able to close them, again, on one char and then open them on another.

Either that, or they should cost less.

Raziel.4216:

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Do we need facts? You can FEEL it in-game, something has changed, and not for the better. I pretty much have played every day since launch, now due to a log jam on masteries I mostly log in for dailies only.

Sales are one part of the pie, running through ghost maps is another. I always see more people at SB then I do in VB. Congratulations on the challenging content Anet that 2.7% of the population asked for.

You can “feel” sales dropping?
I can “feel” them just fine.
Someone else probably “feels” they’re rising.

Was that sarcasm or something?

Some people have a sense for these things.

Probably not sensing that sales are falling, as such, but sensing discontent, unhappiness, or just sheer (relative) emptiness.

Even taking into account things that mask the actual evidence, like megaservers.

Not to mention that, for example, if you are in a few big guilds and they seem a lot emptier, it’s not rocket science to extrapolate from that, that it might be happening in more than just your guilds.

Similarly, if you do WvW and the maps are a lot emptier than they were, you don’t need to be psychic to think that that may not be a good sign.

Personally, the bigger guild I’m in is not noticeably emptier (the same people, who always talked in chat, still do), but I do get a feeling of people being less content and the game being less active, in general.

Swagger.1459:

Added some images showing some examples of cost efficiency (notice the bird flocks in the 3 images? pretty much the same flock used several times, same with falling leaves, and so many more…

I can live with that, TBH.

Especially as, other than that, the artwork is very good.

What I couldn’t live with, was the stuff in-game in SWTOR, where it all looked far too similar, you could clearly see the octagonal tile patterns that made up the grass and the same building layout was used for way too many buildings.

I accepted octagons (or was it hexagons?) from TBC-era WoW landscapes, due to the age, but by the time SWTOR came out, I expected better.

Same with the buildings – I expect that there will be some duplication, but the amount of same building syndrome, in that game, was off the charts.

Other than that, it wasn’t a bad game, to be fair.

Harper.4173:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jana.6831:

Tigaseye.2047:

People who “can’t control their feelings”?

No one can control their feelings, they’re just feelings…

Of course you can control your feelings – if you can’t then you better be locked away as you’re a danger to mankind or yourself.

Actually, Tigaseye is correct. The closest people can come to controlling their feelings is to not put themselves into situations which might elicit feelings. This works, up to the point where something unexpected happens.

What you’re talking about is self-control. This means that people can control their reactions. However, this requires a certain degree of self-awareness and discipline. The most common incentive to exercise self-control is fear of consequence. That’s been a remarkably effective motivation over the centuries. However, it’s not perfect, and it is eroding as social systems erode.

As far as the OP’s issue… while I can understand the feelings elicited, the reaction seems to indicate a bit too much immersion in the game world. This is not alcohol — it’s clicking icons which produce a virtual effect. I recommend regarding it as such.

I disagree – people can control feelings but to some extent – which varies from individual to individual.
Yes you can’t fully control emotional states but humans have the capacity to somewhat shape what emotional states they’ll find themselves in through different means.

And yes- there are individuals that can control their emotional states – their feelings so to say.

Feelings are (at least at first) instant things, that just happen to us.

Yes, you can choose to ignore them, or just bury them (although, that’s probably inadvisable), once you have had them; but you can’t stop that initial burst of feeling from happening.

That’s all I meant.

Wish I hadn’t even brought it up, now.

But it’s hard to ignore someone telling someone they can’t “control their feelings”, while acting fully on theirs.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Tigaseye.2047:

I’m kind to those who deserve it… OP not being one of them.

Why isn’t he deserving of you being kind?

Has he done something wrong to you, or other people, that we should know about?

PopeUrban.2578:

Never going to happen, and here’s why.

The primary reason microtransaction stores use an internal currency is to abstract the actual financial cost of the items in it, and to charge you arbitrary overages so that you have enough fake money in your fake wallet that you feel like you’re “wasting” it if you don’t buy more fake money so you can use the fake money you have that isn’t enough to buy anything with.

Gems, or all of the various jewels, credits, or whatever a game calls their fake currency is explicitly designed so that you have a much more difficut time determining how much money you have spent, are going to spend, and how many actual dollars items cost.

It’s a consumer abusive model built on tried and true systems designed in the mobile space and eventually ported over to MMOs because just using fake money actually results in people spending more money in your game simply because they are less likely to think about how much money they’re spending when it’s converted to an arbitrary token currency.

Basically, think about it this way.

A harvesting tool costs 1000 gems.

You can buy gems in 10 dollar lots of 800.

This means gems, in real money terms, cost 0.0125 cents per gems.

Now, let’s remove the abstraction, and pretend gems were just their actual dollar equivalent.

While we’re at it, let’s pretend that the gem store was a real place, and your gem store items were real things.

Hello sir, welcom to Gnashmart, are you ready to check out?
Yes, I’d like to buy this harvesting flute, I’m taking a trip to Chile next week and I think it’d be safer to mine from a distance.
Okay, that’s going to be 12 dollars and fifty cents
Alright, here you go.
I’m sorry sir, we only accept ten dollar bills.
What?
Our cash register only accepts ten dollar bills.
Fine. Whatever. Here’s two ten dollar bills,
Alright, thank you for your purchase and enjoy your flute!
Uh. Aren’t you forgetting something?
Excuse me?
My change. You owe me seven fifty.
I’m sorry sir, we don’t give change.
You mean you don’t have change, right?
Uh. Well I suppose that’s technically correct… Don’t worry though. We’ll keep this amount on file so you can come back and spend it later on more of our fine products!
What if I don’t want to?
I’m sorry sir, its nonrefundable. Would you like to purchase something else to use the rest of the amount?
Uh, okay sure, give me that wreath there. I should decorate for the holidays.
Alright sir, one Festive Wreath backpack at six dollars, twenty five cents.
That’s not a backp.- you know what? forget it. Now you only owe me a dollar twenty five.
I’m sorry sir, we don’t give change
Oh I don’t need a bill, I’ll take coins. pennies even, whatever.
I’m afraid you don’t understand. This register doesn’t open. I can’t give you anything.
but you owe me a dollar twenty five
And we’ll hang on to that amount until you’re ready to buy another fine Gnashmart product or service!
What about that thing there? How much is that?
The festive hat? That’s a very popular item right now! It’s one dollar and eighty seven cents. I’m sorry but there isn’t enough here to cover that.
How much am I short again?
Sixty two cents sir
Okay here’s sixty two cents.
We only take ten dollar bills sir, remember?
So you’re telling me, that even though I’m only short sixty two cents, I have to give you ten more dollars?
Yes, but you can buy even more fine Gnashmart products and services with the remaining amount!
Exactly how much stuff do you think I came in here to buy?

As you can see, in real currency it’s probably not something people would put up with.

However, since there’s a legal language loophole in which you’re technically paying for virtual currency and not items, monetization managers the world over discovered that by locking up consumer funds in a nonrefundable vendor locked bank they can exploit people’s perception of the sunk cost fallacy to trick customers in to returning and paying in even more money, and generally charge hoigher costs than people would normally be willing to tolerate were those prices listed in easily accessible real currency amounts.

lol, very true.

Of course, you can transfer gold to gems, to make up the difference.

So, that is what I tend to do, if I have some left over gems that aren’t enough to buy anything I want with.

But, yeah, essentially that is true.

I think they can also get away with other things, that they wouldn’t be able to get away with, with a non fake currency.

For example, in the UK, you can’t claim something is discounted from “regular price”, unless you have already offered that item, at that price, for a certain amount of time.

A famous sportswear retailer, for example, tried to flout this consumer law and were in hot water over it.

But, the gems conversion probably circumvents that law.

Similarly, children are not allowed to gamble, or enter raffles, or lotteries, in the UK.

So, the gambling elements, in the gem store (like keys), would almost certainly be considered illegal, if they were (directly) sold for real money.

Honestly, it’s all a little shady, IMO and is essentially about skirting around the law and finding loopholes, rather than being totally and irreproachably above board.

At some point, we may see that consumer law is amended, to take things like alternative currencies into account.

Would certainly be interesting, in a way…

Obviously, they wouldn’t do it, though.

^ That’s very interesting.

It’s a shame that, potentially, good games are being ruined by their P2W model.

It would appear, from what you say, that if most parents won’t pay for their kids to play games, at all, that often ends up in a situation where their kids end up paying more than they otherwise would have, once they become adults?

Just to end up dominating other people’s kids, in games, via paying to do so!

An unhealthy situation all around, really…

It would, almost certainly, be better if parents were prepared to pay a little towards a game, via a sub.

If all games were pay-to-play, rather than pay-to-win and the parents were the ones paying, they would know exactly what their kids were playing, as well.

So, better from that POV, too.

Duke Nukem.6783:

i think we can all agree that the black lion glittering set should NOT have had melee weps

Um, no we can’t all, actually…

Even if I did agree, which I don’t, if you remove some of the weapons, it makes it less likely people will bother to buy the others.

As people, often, like to have matching weapons for both sets.

Even removing the underwater weaps was a mistake, IMO.

You also have to remember that people have different tastes.

We’re not all the same gender, or the same age group, or sexuality etc..