Guild Wars 2

Harper, I still don’t care.

PopeUrban.2578:

WvW rewards are and have always been severely out of touch with the basic expenditures required to play wvw. Your game mode can not sustain a population if it actively requires players to switch to PvE in order to play it proplerly.

This I totally agree with.

It should be at least as rewarding as any PVE.

Re. the proof of heroics specifically:

I didn’t even notice the chests weren’t originally soulbound, TBH, so did EotM on my 2 level 80s, anyway.

I can see how it would be annoying if you wanted to get them all on one char and then pass them on to your alts.

Maybe Anet did it to try to make us do WvW on more than one class?

Thing is, if they want that, they need to make things less imbalanced and every class equally useful in that mode.

Give Rangers untargeted stealth utilities, for example, so it’s easier for them to get to the zerg.

Otherwise, of course most people will just jump on their Mesmer, or whatever, instead.

fdgod.9710:

In browsing the forums these past few days, I have noticed they respond to threads about invisible shoes

Actually, a lot of people have a problem with the method of acquiring those invisible shoes, in the same way people have a problem with the method of acquiring the items in this bundle.

Plus they cost 2K+ (normally 2.5K) on the TP.

So, that’s £200+ vs around £20.

Not to say paying £20, for one thing that should cost £6, is OK – it’s not – but, still.

Personally, I wouldn’t want the shoes, as my characters’ ankles, especially in leggings, look too disproportionally small and fragile, to me, compared with their thighs (so, look better covered).

But, many do and they just wanted a toggle.

I agree with you.

Is it just me, or have they removed the bundle from the gemstore?

Matt Hax.8927:

maybe you have some spy cameras installed in you room

:/

Let’s hope not.

Linken.6345:

And you can test up to lvl 20 for free so try before you buy.

Problem with that is, it really doesn’t give you much indication of what endgame will be like (or even vaguely current content), but it’s definitely worth a go, anyway.

The thing is, the game is 11 years old now.

So, even with the revamp they did several years ago, to the older zones, the difference between newer and older stuff is still fairly noticeable.

What I would say WoW is best for is dungeons and raiding – and even if you don’t want to real raid, you can do LFR.

Also, the continents are huge and completely open – no portals/loading screens – which is obviously nice.

Nike.2631:

Tigaseye.2047:

OK, moving swiftly on, before I say something I might regret.

Another thing I found, while Googling:

“5th Planet chief executive Robert Winkler revealed at the Game Developers Conference Online in 2012 that with its game Clash of the Dragons, 40 percent of revenue came from 2 percent of players who spent $1,000 or more. Ninety percent came from those who spent $100 or more, and the top whale had spent $6,700.”

So, if this is, even vaguely, typical, it would appear that the people you really have to try to please, as a games developer, is not so much the whales (or certainly not only them), but the dolphins.

The “dolphins” thing is my definition, BTW – no idea what they’re really referred to, if anything.

Which would perfectly illustrate why various “let’s withhold money!” forum strategies don’t work. All you do is move yourself out of the category they need to concern themselves with. Their business is people who consistently spend hundreds of dollars, not the people threatening to withhold a couple of 20s. If you’re angry off about having to spend 12$ you pretty much just announced you’re a nobody.

And ‘dolphins’ is a good choice for what you’re describing .

Well yeah and I’m not, personally, suggesting withholding money, as such – more spreading it more evenly around various playstyles.

As a bit of a dolphin, myself…

…actually, I have been dangerously close to becoming a whale, this year, but it is (hopefully) mainly because it has been my first year playing…

…I am more inclined to spend RL money, if I feel I am getting enough ingame gold, doing the things I enjoy.

I know that probably sounds like a contradiction, to some people, as if I am getting too much ingame gold, that will stop me needing to spend any RL money (like the TP flippers); but when I say “enough”, I really mean enough.

Not totally excessive amounts; just enough.

I am more inclined, if I feel I am well on my way to getting something, to just help it along with a few quid of real money, than I am when I feel I would have to contribute all, or most of it, in that way.

…and that is, presumably, the balancing act they have to try to play, here.

The problem as far as I can see it, ATM, is that the TP has just become too prominent – too much THE way to make gold, as opposed to just A way.

…and that is exacerbated, by the fact that we’re (almost) all painfully aware that, every time we try to buy something on the TP, it may have had its price, artificially, increased by the TP flippers.

So, it’s like a double-whammy for people and that is very hard to ignore.

OK, when we sell something, they may also be, inadvertently, helping us to get a little more for it, too, but still…

The point is, that that is less likely to stick in the minds of people, who mainly buy.

If either, or both, weren’t the case, or weren’t so much the case, it would be far easier to let them just get on with it.

Land of Cheese.2584:

Daddicus.6128:

Tigaseye.2047:

Do you really want to raid in this game, with people like Harper, anyway?

Nope. Well, yes, if s/he isn’t being hardcore at the time.

Well, good, because I’m sure Harper doesn’t want to play with you, either. You see, Harper is interested in being successful, killing the boss, and winning the encounter. You’re not.

No, if you read his other posts, Harper is mainly “interested” in telling other players he doesn’t care about them, or their concerns and then acting surprised when people react badly to that.

Oh and in himself, obviously.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tigaseye.2047:

Well, from what I understand, it’s gear diversity to a very limited extent.

As in, the tank might get to gear slightly tanky and the healer slightly healerish; but, mostly, people are still in very specific DPS gear.

I just wish they would end the pretence.

Reduce the gear to a far more manageable pool of gear.

You’re embracing a fallacy. A gear prefix does not have to be relevant to all players in every game mode to deserve being in existence. A given prefix is irrelevant in raids. So what? Maybe its relevant to a player who likes to run around PvE doing what s/he wants. Maybe it’s relevant in WvW.

I’m not saying they should reduce it to one set.

But, the sheer number of sets is overwhelming., ATM.

Personally, I would prefer the WoW route, in this situation, where all armour has a certain amount of power stat and Stamina and then, the secondary variations (two of them, basically) happen beyond that.

I dislike that I have felt the need to promote WoW twice on this thread, but still.

On other threads, I might have criticised them twice.

But, there are just certain things they do better, in my eyes at least.

OK, moving swiftly on, before I say something I might regret.

Another thing I found, while Googling:

“5th Planet chief executive Robert Winkler revealed at the Game Developers Conference Online in 2012 that with its game Clash of the Dragons, 40 percent of revenue came from 2 percent of players who spent $1,000 or more. Ninety percent came from those who spent $100 or more, and the top whale had spent $6,700.”

So, if this is, even vaguely, typical, it would appear that the people you really have to try to please, as a games developer, is not so much the whales (or certainly not only them), but the dolphins.

The “dolphins” thing is my definition, BTW – no idea what they’re really referred to, if anything.

Nike.2631:

The definition of whale you are drawing on (commonly popularized in casinos, not videogame micro-transactions — we’re all tiny minnows compared to those antics) just means person who can and does throw a lot of money around. What kind of money isn’t the issue.

Well, in casinos, you can’t originally spend anything other than real money.

So, there wouldn’t be the same need to draw a distinction, there, would there?

It’s not like you can go to a casino, spend no RL money at all (aside from, possibly, a registration fee [to mirror the game/xpac purchase]) and then generate chips from absolutely nothing.

Whereas, you can in online games.

Obviously, a very small number of people in the casino might have won a lot of money, that they then continue to gamble, via a very small intitial stake; but the vast majority won’t have.

…and if at any time they wish to cash-in, they can.

Whereas, you can’t, legally, cash-in your “chips” in online games.

The RL money to gold exchange only works one way.

So, it’s a different situation, in a couple of ways.

Assuming you’re playing by the rules of the house…

Nike.2631:

Would it be shocking to suggest there’s more than one type of whale?

A person who can casually spend 10k+ gold is pretty rightly referred to by that term even if they didn’t buy that gold.

…Not that most of our resident TP moguls keep their wealth in any form so useless as coin…

Well, from what I have always understood, “whale”, in this context, refers to people who spend a great deal of RL money on a game.

That is the definition.

There isn’t, as far as I know, another definition of “whale” that extends to making a lot of in-game gold.

That probably has another name, but it isn’t “whale”.

ETA: Just been Googling and it would appear a few companies do refer to different categories of “whale”,

But I still think that the majority of people think of a “whale” as someone who spends a lot of RL money.

As that was the original meaning.

I will say one more thing, in general, though.

Someone, on here, I believe described the TP flippers as “whales”?

They are not “whales”.

“Whales” are people who spend a lot of RL money on a game.

They are not people who make a lot of in-game gold and then either sit on it, or spend it on gemstore stuff/other TP stuff.

The TP flippers are, typically, spending far less (or no – beyond the game/xpac price) RL money than the average player.

So, they are the opposite of “whales”.

In fact, in the Anet’s accountants’ eyes, they are less than plankton.

They might be forcing/obliging other people to buy more gold, via their actions.

But, that doesn’t make them “whales”.

Smooth, I can’t be bothered with this.

Whether you realise it, or not, we’re going around in circles here.

Oh and trust me, I don’t need a “101” on anything, from you, TYVM.

…apart from, possibly, sliding on the ice on my belly.

Thaddeus.4891:

Tigaseye.2047:

Eh, I think asking people for humility is a lot easier when you’re not also asking them for money.

Not you personally, obviously, but Anet.

People bought the xpac and now find that almost nothing is designed for them.

At the very least, IMO, they could have thrown in an LFR-style version, with occasional ascended drops.

Fortunately, I’m more interested in WvW, in this game.

Although, that has also largely taken a nosedive, since HoT, as well.

At least EotM is still relatively fun, most of the time.

Ok on that I agree with you. But that’s a totally different topic then. Raid is a big success because it was made like it was suppose to. It was suppose to be the hardest thing in the game, Check. It was suppose to improve the diversity in build/gear, check.

Now if we talk about the fact that the expansion wasn’t worth 50$. Or that a lot of poor choice were made (nerf to dungeon reward, fractal redesign, etc) Then I’m with you. But like I said, that not a problem with raid. It’s a problem with HoT.

Well, from what I understand, it’s gear diversity to a very limited extent.

As in, the tank might get to gear slightly tanky and the healer slightly healerish; but, mostly, people are still in very specific DPS gear.

I just wish they would end the pretence.

Reduce the gear to a far more manageable pool of gear.

Officially state which gear is for what.

Leave people less confused and less inclined to blame other players.

They know what they balanced raids around.

So, just tell people, get rid of any totally useless gear (as in, the least optimal for any gamemode) and be done with it.

Thaddeus.4891:

Devildoc.6721:

No, they’re inherently bad because they limit build choices. You can’t successfuly beat enrage timers with anything but a heavy amount of glass cannon dps.

And that’s your opinion, but not mine.

TBH honest, i’m not a fan of straight overall timer for the boss, but I’m a very big fan of dps checks like gorseval fight where you need to dps him enough before he does it’s big attack twice in a phase.

Have the humility to understand that other people like other kind of stuff than you. Some people wanted that kind of stuff for raids and I’m aware that it’s not something that everybody like.

I don’t like everything in the game, but I’m able to understand that other people might love it that way and it’s cool with me.

Eh, I think asking people for humility is a lot easier when you’re not also asking them for money.

Not you personally, obviously, but Anet.

People bought the xpac and now find that almost nothing is designed for them, anymore.

At the very least, IMO, they could have thrown in an LFR-style version, with occasional ascended drops.

Fortunately, I’m more interested in WvW, in this game.

Although, that has also largely taken a nosedive, since HoT.

At least EotM is still relatively fun, most of the time.

Daddicus.6128:

Harper.4173:

but other people are just as allowed to avoid you and not play with you if they don’t want to.

It’s kind of amusing that you can’t see the irony in this. ANet built GW2 on the philosophy of “play how you want to play”. But, your statement screams “you can’t play your way, because you must play my way.”

But, regardless, why is my idea wrong? Wouldn’t setting up a separate raiding lobby that requires certain gear completely solve the problem? The elitists get their sandbox, and the casuals get theirs.

NOTE: The idea of setting up a lobby has been put forth in another thread. This idea would create two lobbies instead of just one.

Do you really want to raid in this game, with people like Harper, anyway?

I can’t think of anything worse, frankly.

…and the first boss isn’t anything to write home about, either.

I hate myself for saying this, as I’m annoyed with Blizzard, but if you want to raid, play WoW.

Do LFR and then join a good guild, with nice people and try out some Normal and then HC and finally, if you want to, Mythic.

The raids are better there and they come in different difficulties (the first one queueable).

They kind of messed up LFR, in WoD, but hopefully it will be better in Legion.

The gear is, also, less variable – so, you can be sure the raids are designed around that gear.

The game looks older, but it is immeasurably better from the raiding POV.

Maybe this game will, eventually, catch up; I hope so.

But, I honestly think some fundamental things need to be changed for that to happen.

All I can say is, you’re not missing much.

Land of Cheese.2584:

Devildoc.6721:

Serophous.9085:

That isn’t Anet’s fault. That’s players enforcing those rules (and the 15k AP requirement is LOL).

It was obvious from the start that once someone found a successful raid comp, everyone would start copying it and trying to enforce it. This was a given.

As for the TD meta, there was a guild helping with the meta last night I believe, people in my guild were talking about it. Its probably the hardest meta in the game at the moment, and people needed to learn it in order to beat it. I’m hoping the guilds that help get more pugs in to learn it will spread and it gets completed more.

It is anet’s fault. They put in timers on both raid content and world bosses, if you’re not pushing the envelope on DPS, you’re not going to make the timer on Garent or any of the raid bosses. In these 2 specific cases, it is anet’s fault.

I think that perhaps “fault” isn’t the right word here. That’s Anet’s design. To say it’s Anet’s “fault” is like me saying it’s my mother’s “fault” that her chili is so good — and that I want to eat lots of it.

Well, it’s not really the same.

You may feel that your mom’s chilli is so good you can’t resist it, but you’re not going to fail anything if you don’t eat it, or eat less of it.

So, you could (with some willpower) choose not to eat it.

Whereas, if Anet design something, with a timer, that rewards those who go full DPS and makes those, who don’t, run out of time; it’s no longer really a choice.

That’s assuming that is the case, which it seems to be, at least to an extent.

If they had wanted to premote more defensive builds, for example, they would have extended the timer, but made the boss attacks more punishing.

It is entirely in their hands how they chose to design this and if they chose to make the timer the hardest to beat part, they were indicating the highest damage gear via that design.

Therefore, if Zerker is needed, it is their fault.

I guess it’s mostly semantics, in the end, though.

What do you mean by accurate?

StinVec.3621:

Just noting that the thread creator (Aleksandr.4635) deleted their OP.

I did not want people thinking Doggie started it with their response that was to the OP. Thread will likely be (auto-?)deleted eventually due to the OP being deleted.

Ah, OK.

Wonder why?

Frostfire.7492:

Tigaseye.2047:

Jana.6831:

Tigaseye.2047:

snip

Ayrilana.1396:

snip

As far as I remember Anet themselves said ascended would be required to beat the bosses – but don’t ask me for a link – probably someone else knows.

Depends who you ask.

Apparently, it was a rather vague tweet, although I didn’t see it.

Some people read it as ascended required, some people read it as ascended recommended and some people as ascended required for the last boss, only.

No idea what the truth is.

http://dulfy.net/2015/09/30/gw2-ascended-gear-will-be-needed-in-raids/

@blacklionchest Earlier wing bosses can prob be killed by top tier players in mix of asc/ex. Last boss should be full asc.
Yeah

I think this clearly states that asc. should be needed.

Well, unless you’re a “top tier player” (whatever that is, or isn’t, in this game) it would appear so.

Ayrilana.1396:

Anet actually outright stated that it was recommended.

OK, well it doesn’t surprise me, TBH.

But, when I tried to say that it was basically required (because I’d heard that, on here) on the HoT subforum, someone practically bit my head off and said Anet had only said it was necessary for the last boss.

So, there does seem to be some confusion.

ucheks.2894:

If you cant deal with the jungle in berserker gear, than raids arent the place for you. Sorry.

IDK about that, it’s kind of different.

Also, people might want to chill a bit, in openworld content.

Being fully alert, at all times, is hardly relaxing.

You expect to have to be alert in raids, but not for hours on end in openworld.

Jana.6831:

Tigaseye.2047:

snip

Ayrilana.1396:

snip

As far as I remember Anet themselves said ascended would be required to beat the bosses – but don’t ask me for a link – probably someone else knows.

Depends who you ask.

Apparently, it was a rather vague tweet, although I didn’t see it.

Some people read it as ascended required, some people read it as ascended recommended and some people as ascended required for the last boss, only.

No idea what the truth is.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

Yeah, I know.

Honestly, I can’t be bothered with it.

Good luck to those who can.

Ayrilana.1396:

Berserker meta? You do know that many teams have a tank (that may or may not be using berserkers, condition players, and a healer. In other MMO’s you normally have the same set up so I don’t know why people are expecting anything different. At least classes have the ability to perform many of these roles.

Yeah, but the issue is more about needing (or being far better off with) several sets of ascended gear.

Except that you don’t. That’s a requirement imposed by other players.

Well, probably partly, but the OP’s description of preferring to use more defensive gear in HoT and then DPS gear in raids is pretty accurate.

I’ve only tried the raid once, briefly and people seemed to think you need a tank, a healer and then both zerker and condi build DPS.

So, they were feeling under pressure to change their gear and builds etc..

Then, of course, they’d go outside into the HoT maps and might wish they had more defence again.

I know you can use exotics for the HoT maps, so you could go and get some exotic Soldiers gear, or whatever.

But, naturally, people tend to dislike having to go down a gear tier, once they have the higher tier.

It’s just human nature.

Plus, it’s just so much gear piling up in your bags, plus faffing around changing it, as we don’t have equipment sets.

Yeah, I know.

Honestly, I can’t be bothered with it.

Good luck to those who can.

Ayrilana.1396:

Berserker meta? You do know that many teams have a tank (that may or may not be using berserkers, condition players, and a healer. In other MMO’s you normally have the same set up so I don’t know why people are expecting anything different. At least classes have the ability to perform many of these roles.

Yeah, but the issue is more about needing (or being far better off with) several sets of ascended gear.

mcwurth.2081:

Tigaseye.2047:

Celtic Lady.3729:

mcwurth.2081:

Celtic Lady.3729:

mcwurth.2081:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

mcwurth.2081:

For some reason this whole topic makes me laugh out loud.

If you are laughing at this topic then you are either insensitive or have partaken in actions that these poor folks are describing… either way I suggest you look up the definition of empathy.

you are exactly the type that make me laugh. prejudice and idiotic statements about people you NEVER (and never will) have met and know nothing about.

He’s right. Your comment was rude, insensitive, and totally unnecessary.

grow some skin, getting a comment without anything but a statement about something makes people feel attacked on a internet forum? that makes me laugh too. very much so. Instead of giving judgement about the post, one could wonder about the why how and what. But noooooo the kitten people of gw2 do not do that, instead they feel like snowflakes in an avalanche.

Yeah…I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

The only thing I “wonder” is how someone can get their kicks and giggles out of laughing at someone else’s distress, even online.

But then, there are things in this world that I do NOT want to understand. This is basically one of them.

Don’t worry.

I have a feeling he won’t be doing that here, for much longer.

That is one thing I will say for Anet and this forum – they don’t tolerate trolling, if it’s reported.

If you called that trolling…. meh do not worry clearly I got reported and it is deleted now.

If it wasn’t trolling, all I can say is you have some pretty socially unacceptable views.

Harper.4173:

His agenda is the same as everyone else’s – but at least most other players aren’t hiding it behind “the masses” as all would-be communist ( excuse me – he prefers rational socialist) sympathizers do.

He wants to change the game to better suit him and work more towards his advantage. By promoting his vision he hopes to find support from others and perhaps attempt to make a change. It’s been done before – no change will come but people still try.

TP flipping being rewarding is good because it’s allowing them to control the economy – more flips = more gold being taken out of the economy.
Plus – through flipping only a few truly profit – and that doesn’t matter when most players aren’t affected by it being too lazy, uninterested or incapable to flip successfully.

I am profoundly baffled by your statement regarding my caring. Did you expect me to care? Do you care about me?

Do you honestly believe you’re more than a walking talking NPC for the majority of the people you meet in game?

Of course you’re “profoundly baffled” Harper, because you’re not like most of the rest of us.

Yes, most of us do care.

The only people I don’t care about, at all, are people who don’t care about other people.

Yes, there are quite a lot of them in MMOs, unfortunately.

Probably due to the fact that the real world, understandably, doesn’t react well to their kind.

Far easier to hide-out in games, or on the real life stock market etc..

The thing is, much as you’re trying to accuse Ohoni of wanting to change the game, to suit himself, the truth is it wouldn’t make his life any better than it could otherwise be, if he was like you.

He’s, clearly, more than bright enough and more than dedicated enough to the game to work the TP, just like you do.

He just morally objects to the idea of a few people becoming very rich, ingame, while others either can’t, or don’t want to, do what it takes to follow suit.

Whereas you, Harper…

You just want everything your own way, for your own totally selfish reasons and freely admit you don’t care, at all, about other players.

I know which one I prefer, by far.

Oh and BTW, communism and socialism are not the same thing, at all.

I live in Western Europe and people would be absolutely furious that you didn’t know the difference, or falsely tried to pretend you didn’t.

Not that I expect you care.

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Cyninja.2954:

Ohoni.6057:

So getting the account bound mats like spirit shards, laurels, karma, bloodstone dust, empyrial fragments, dragonite ore for the old stat combos as well as airship oil, auric dust, obsi shards and ley line sparks for the new ones is considered by you no problem at all, while listing your loot for twice or triple the value you usually do is considered impossible.

Right.

I think you simply lost perspective on some things.

That you seem to believe you’ve made a point here just shows that you really don’t understand how the game’s economy works for the average player.

If I had to pick as to who has the better understanding of the ingame economy, it definately be Wanze over you Ohoni.

I’m sure many forum regulars will agree on this point no matter if they are sympathetic to Wanze or not. In order to effectively “play the trading post” one must understand the market. Your theories are nice and dandy, but so far all you’ve been advocating for is “free stuff”. That doesn’t show a lot of understanding.

Haven’t been following this thread, as it was just too depressing to even think about, but just thought I should say that I don’t agree with you, at all.

Both of them probably understand how markets work, it’s just that Ohoni also understands how this affects the players who either don’t understand, or choose not to participate.

The problem is that IRL, even in this unfair world, most people are not forced to gamble on the stock market.

Or to be a business entrepreneur.

Most people can, or should, be able to make a decent living in other ways.

Ways that, hopefully, inspire and challenge them; or, at least, don’t bore and depress them.

So, if you make the only option to make decent money, in a game, something most people either don’t find easy, or don’t enjoy doing, you are inevitably limiting the appeal of that game to a relatively small number of people.

Accusing anyone, who dares to point this out, of being ignorant and/or suffering from sour grapes, is doing them, Anet and most of the other players of the game a disservice.

You mean Ohoni pretends to realize and care about how the regular player is affected in order to further his own personal agenda.
You have zero indication that he has any reason other than his own benefit for pushing these ideas and claims that he makes.

So, if you make the only option to make decent money, in a game, something most people either don’t find easy, or don’t enjoy doing, you are inevitably limiting the appeal of that game to a relatively small number of people.

Except the game has other ways to make decent money fast – Gems to Gold. It is probably intended that the alternatives are not so pleasant in order to incentivize people to buy Gems and convert to gold.

Let’s not forget how Dungeon rewards were nerfed and then no other rewards were buffed.

Oh, hello Harper, what a surprise to see you here…

…and what, exactly, would his “agenda” be?

I’m all ears (or eyes, or whatever).

Well, if they want us to buy gems, all the more reason I would have thought, to make the TP flipping less rewarding?

Why leave that way to make gold unaffected, while all the other ways, including ones which are far less effective, are nerfed?

At the end of the day, yes they want us to buy gold, but they have to make sure they have a game left for us to want to buy gold for.

Harper.4173:

what you fail to understand is that while I do understand – I and many others do not care.

…and here we have it, ladies and gentlemen.

Straight from the Harper’s mouth.

He doesn’t care and doesn’t care who knows it.

You know what, Harper?

Don’t bother to get back to me.

I and many others don’t care.

I agree with most of your concerns, but I think they should make all max level activities gross roughly the same amount of gold per hour.

The problem with only giving those returns back to dungeons, is you risk returning to the previous speedrunning situation, where virtually all groups are only there to gold farm.

Whereas, if you make all activities roughly equal in rewards, people can then choose the one(s) they truly prefer to play and we might (with any luck…) even get back to a situation where people are running dungeons mainly for fun, whilst_ also_ making some gold.

As opposed to only running them for gold, while not really enjoying them, as most seemed to be previously.

Possibly they need to add some additional loot mechanics, too?

Maybe make the end rewards rely on you clearing most of the mobs in a dungeon and/or make random regular mobs drop significant amounts of the gold, to encourage people to kill them, rather than skip them all.

In an ideal world, there would be additional gameplay mechanics to break up the permastacking, as well; but without new dungeons, I guess that probably won’t happen.

The picnic thing is really sweet, BTW.

^ Thank you, that’s very kind of you, Loth.

Exactly – most people come to games as an escape from real life.

I know MMOs tend to reflect more aspects of real life than a typical non-MMO game does.

But that obviously doesn’t mean that most people will be content with an MMO which places too much emphasise on the financial wheeling and dealing side of life, to the detriment of everything else.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

It’s a game to you, but a business to NCSoft. Big difference.

No, it’s not a “big difference”.

In fact, it’s not any kind of difference.

It is both things, simultaneously.

It is a game to the players and a business to Anet.

They’re not mutually exclusive things.

GW2 had a big increase of players when HoT went live. That seems to say people are enjoying the new content.

What has that got to do with this specific subject?

Actually, if the increase was when it went live, all it says is that a lot of new and/or returning players wanted to try the new content.

I’m not saying that that isn’t the case, or that some (or most) aren’t still enjoying, at least some of, it now.

I’m just saying that, if people are unhappy with the amount of gold they can make, by playing the parts of the game they enjoy, some (or all) of them might decide to leave, sooner or later.

In other words, I’m stating (what should be) the obvious.

False. That’s only how you feel.

No, it’s not only how I feel.

I’m not even talking about myself, here.

If you notice, I didn’t even bother contributing to this thread for almost a week, after my initial responses.

I support the subject of the thread, but life is too short to dwell on these things, for too long, in a game.

Afterall, unlike life, you can just leave games – which is kind of my point.

No, I don’t particularly enjoy ripping people off on the TP, as it happens, but I know for a fact I’m not alone in that.

I come from WoW – I didn’t enjoy auction house stuff, there, either – even though I was pretty “successful”, for the relatively short time I bothered with it and even though there isn’t such a direct correlation between real money and gold, there.

Or wasn’t, at the time.

But, just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you enjoy it, think it’s morally good, or want to have to do it.

Again, this is a game.

If I’m not having fun, I just leave games, sooner or later

…and I’m not alone.

WoW lost half its population, in a few months, when people were unhappy with WoD.

I mean, honestly, what a ridiculous conversation.

Having to explain that people might leave games if they’re not happy.

For my next trick, I will be explaining how night follows day.

You’re not Entitled to making as much money as a TP player, as you can’t compare other activities to TP trading. Scroll up in this thread for an explanation as to why there’s a difference. Your whole argument fails because you’re comparing apples to an airplane.

It’s not a question of “Entitlement” – seriously, wth is with the “E”?

It’s not a proper noun, you know.

There isn’t an NPC called Entitlement I should know about, somewhere, is there? xD

…and as far as that goes, the game makers can do anything they like.

For example, if they wanted, they could bring in a swingeing income tax and/or a capital gains tax and/or tax you on your entire in-game capital.

They can do anything they like.

Now, that might be a mistake, if it risked annoying more people than it pleased.

But, quite honestly, it probably wouldn’t and they could do it.

Especially if they, simultaneously, gave people more, active, ways to make more gold.

Then they would be removing gold from the economy, in one way and reintroducing it, in another.

Thus not causing any additional gold to enter the system.

Which, I believe was your concern?

That’s called redistributing wealth, as I’m sure you know.

Anet will never do this to a Free Market.

Really?

If not, they would be going against what virtually all other real life economies do, to one extent or another, on a regular basis.

I know Anet already take a small cut, with the TP fees, but they could do far more to very successful TP players, than that, if they liked.

Not saying they necessarily should, or shouldn’t, but of course they could.

Either way, there need to be far more ways than one to make decent gold than just playing the TP.

Or, things need to be made more equal, in some way.

GW2 has no subscription fees. They’re free to come back at anytime. Anet will never delete their accounts, items, or progression unless specifically asked to.

That’s irrelevant and you know it.

If enough people stop playing, or play far less, the game dies.

As you say, this is a business to Anet.

They can’t allow that to happen.

Celtic Lady.3729:

mcwurth.2081:

Celtic Lady.3729:

mcwurth.2081:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

mcwurth.2081:

For some reason this whole topic makes me laugh out loud.

If you are laughing at this topic then you are either insensitive or have partaken in actions that these poor folks are describing… either way I suggest you look up the definition of empathy.

you are exactly the type that make me laugh. prejudice and idiotic statements about people you NEVER (and never will) have met and know nothing about.

He’s right. Your comment was rude, insensitive, and totally unnecessary.

grow some skin, getting a comment without anything but a statement about something makes people feel attacked on a internet forum? that makes me laugh too. very much so. Instead of giving judgement about the post, one could wonder about the why how and what. But noooooo the kitten people of gw2 do not do that, instead they feel like snowflakes in an avalanche.

Yeah…I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

The only thing I “wonder” is how someone can get their kicks and giggles out of laughing at someone else’s distress, even online.

But then, there are things in this world that I do NOT want to understand. This is basically one of them.

Don’t worry.

I have a feeling he won’t be doing that here, for much longer.

That is one thing I will say for Anet and this forum – they don’t tolerate trolling, if it’s reported.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tigaseye.2047:

I’ve also said, previously, that most people simply don’t enjoy playing the TP, so won’t want to do that.

You don’t want to play a part of the game that allows you to make a lot of money, so you want Anet to give it to you for no effort? That’s Entitlement. Not sure why you don’t understand this. Let me quote myself so you can see a real life example:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Example: I told you that you could make $10,000 by rubbing 2 sticks together for 8 hours, or you could make $100 by just telling me the capital of Texas. What you’re doing is taking the $100, and then complaining that it’s not fair for the next guy to get the $10,000.

Smooth, I’m not going to carry on with this farce of a conversation for much longer.

This is a game.

People have to enjoy themselves, at least somewhat, to want to keep playing it.

If people actively dislike standing around in LA, flipping things on the TP, they will not continue to play for long, if that is the only well-paid option.

Now, as far as I see it, Anet have three possible solutions:

1. Make other, more popular, activities (ideally, all of them) more rewarding – not, necessarily, quite as rewarding as flipping the TP can be, but at least almost.

2. Limit the amount people can make by playing the TP, in some way.

3. A little of both of the above.

You telling people, repeatedly, that they are jealous/lazy/“Entitled” for not wanting to flip the TP, in a game, all day long won’t change anything.

If enough people are unhappy, they will just leave.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tigaseye.2047:

It’s a (justifiable) feeling of injustice and unfairness, that makes people feel undervalued, depressed and/or hopeless.

There is no injustice or unfairness, but rather laziness. Asking Anet to give you something because you don’t want to use existing mechanics to get for yourself is pretty much Entitlement.

No, it’s not laziness either.

Not wanting to play one, EXTREMELY inactive part of the game, is not “laziness”.

Not jealousy, not laziness, not “Entitlement” (why on earth give that an upper case E, BTW?).

I’ve explained exactly what it is.

I’ve also said, previously, that most people simply don’t enjoy playing the TP, so won’t want to do that.

If you still can’t understand any of this, or refuse to admit that you do, I obviously can’t help you.

Nike.2631:

Tigaseye.2047:

Nike.2631:

Hey new players, on every page of a thread except the first you can clear the forum bug by clicking on the red page number in the upper left under “add reply” causing the page to reload correctly, instead of putting in a ‘forum bug post’.

Oh, can you?

That’s FAR better then. ><

…and here I was thinking this forum was an embarrassing mess.

How wrong I was.

I’m totally with you they need to fix it. Just pointing out there’s a somewhat more tidy workaround .

Yeah and I appreciate it and really should have thanked you.

It’s my ongoing annoyance with the bug, not with your suggestion.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Tigaseye.2047:

~~~ snip ~~~

Jealousy is never a good reason why Anet should cater to the Entitled.

For the last time (for me, anyway), jealousy is not the issue, here.

Or even envy, which is the correct word for what you’re assuming here, actually, as it specifically refers to someone’s possessions and/or luck.

Jealousy/envy are not constructive things, by any means, but this is something that is even less constructive than that.

It’s a (justifiable) feeling of injustice and unfairness, that makes people feel undervalued, depressed and/or hopeless.

So much so that, at its worst, they just give up/refuse to cooperate entirely.

Someone who is, supposedly, an expert in psychology should really be able to see the difference.

I shouldn’t need to explain this to you.

At least pure envy might motivate some people to try harder; but, that is not (or not only) what we’re dealing with, here.

That is the entire point.

I’m not even going to bother with the “Entitled” part.

That is just a joke, frankly.

Pandaman.4758:

loseridoit.2756:

Pandaman.4758:

warbignime.4610:

If you crash at DS just use 64 bit client.

Sadly the 64 bit client doesn’t help everyone as people are still reporting crashes when they use it. It’s a memory usage problem, all the 64 bit client does is delay crashing by giving the game access to more memory to flounder in, so it’s more a band-aid than an actual solution.

errrr not really…… memory fragmentation is a much more different problem than memory leak.

Giving more memory addresses to memory allocate to play with allows it to make better decisions by stop forcing it to aggressive reuse memory addresses.

Memory fragmentation is a natural problem with memory allocators. Sometimes, I wonder about giving Anet lots of flak that their game is so huge and expansive that they are easily hitting 32 bits limitations which are commonly faced by server applications.

Thing is we still have people on 64-bit client and 8+ GB of RAM reporting crashes, so address limitations isn’t the only cause of this issue.

I was still crashing, to begin with, but then what (I would assume) would have previously been crashes, turned into really long lag spikes (or whatever you would call a freeze-type situation, like that), but no crash.

I know what you mean, but after WoD, I don’t trust Blizzard, either.

In fact, I trust them even less.

Last I heard, they were threatening to repeat the flying/no flying will we?/won’t we? game, again…

…and wasn’t that fun? ><

If I feel the need to be psychologically duped and messed around with, like that, I can always bring up the question of outstanding DIY jobs, at home, for free. xD

Not to mention that, unless I can be bothered to find out whether they are reinstating LFR difficulty and rewards, I will have no reason to go back, anyway.

As LFR was my main (relatively relaxing) thing, there.

Same goes for enforced personal loot.

Having to try to have and screenshot loot rules convos, for the inevitable ticket, after the inevitable loot scam, isn’t high on my list of fun activities.

…and then, there’s the human female char models.

Much as I complain about the lack of body type choices, in this game, when I think of what they did to human females in WoW…

Running back into Blizzard’s fickle and misleading arms, ATM, would almost certainly be a mistake for most people.

It’s one thing not getting new things right, first time; but, intentionally, removing your own, previous, good additions (especially to please scammers and other psychos and control freaks) is pretty much unforgivable, in my eyes.

You knew exactly what you were doing, Blizzard and yet, you still did it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Tigaseye.2047:

I sometimes feel there is a passive-aggression to the fan club mentality.

Yeah, really. Or they ride into a thread on their white horses, waving their Crusade banners, and beating us all over the heads with their Good Books.

I don’t really respond well to the whole “Convert or Die!” approach.

Quite.

Me neither.

Tiger Ashante.1792:

Vavume.8065:

OP, if you are still clicking your skills like I just saw on one of your youtube vids then this would explain why you are having difficulty with the content, sure HoT is harder than vanilla GW2 but you certainly do not need a zerg to get through areas, I’m sorry but this is a learn to play issue.

I’m not sure what relevance my playstyle has to do with my thread and it saddens me that all you could say is ltp. I always find it amusing how many people come on this forum and accuse Anet of not letting them play how they want, yet some of those very people will come on here telling others how they should play. I’m fine playing the way i do. Not that it’s anyone’s business, but i do have problems with my hands due to a car accident and its the only way i can play, but tnx for your input anyway.

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Just to clarify – does this mean you can’t hit keybound keys, on the keyboard, without problems?

If so, I can see how that would make HoT virtually impossible.

Re. gliding: I have the same issue with lag.

What I have to do is keep the space bar held down when I jump (so, don’t release it, at all).

There is still a slight delay, sometimes, but at least it means no more plummeting to your death, without the glider deploying, at all.

I totally agree with you re. too many mobs and mobs respawning constantly.

Even if you are lucky enough to be able to cope with that, physically, it is still annoying, if you can’t even stand still anywhere, for a few seconds, without having to fight.

We need, at least, little safe areas, just to make it less constantly intense.

People would then be able to make it intense, if they wanted, by avoiding any safe areas, but those who wanted to stop and smell the roses (or lilies) would be able to.

If you want to soldier on (pun kind of intended), I would recommend you wear all-Soldier gear (or the equivalent).

It really does help a lot.

Obviously, it makes the fights a little longer, but it really reduces your likelihood of dying and having to run back.

Either way, I totally get where you’re coming from and empathise with your situation.

I also totally agree with you re. small guilds – it’s a travesty, frankly.

zombyturtle.5980:

My argument is; casual players who dont want to improve their skills and dont like a challenge have all of core tyria maps to play in. Other players like me have HOT maps only.

Except, it doesn’t really work like that, does it?

As these “casuals” also paid for HoT and are also, probably, pretty tired of core Tyria.

If they had produced two HoTs, one easier and/or less intense and one more difficult and/or more intense, you might have a point; but they didn’t.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Tigaseye.2047:

I, personally, find complaints interesting (even the rude ones!), as I feel they shed light on possible issues and hold the most sincerity.

So do I. Honestly, I’d rather wade through a thousand complaint posts than read a handful of ones BSing about how Anet can do no wrong.

No disrespect to Anet, of course.

Me too.

I know some of the compliment posts may be sincere, too; but, it’s pretty much impossible to tell.

Whereas, a good complaint screams honesty, whether you agree with it, or not.

I sometimes feel there is a passive-aggression to the fan club mentality.

They may be saying nice things, on the surface, but dig a little deeper and it’s all about control.

They’re pretending to be the world’s greatest fan, but they’re actually just trying to manipulate the target of their admiration, if you see what I mean?

I don’t trust it, frankly.

warbignime.4610:

draugris.9872:

warbignime.4610:

If you crash at DS just use 64 bit client. Dev respond more often on reddit because people there are not raging mobs who trying to burn down castle Arena net.

The irony is that Arenanet self created that environment with their refusal to communication. And it seems that they understood that they can´t fool the people here any longer.

Point proven, people here are just so much more toxic and complain about every little thing in GW2 since day 1 of launch. I mean if some new player just read forum and don’t play the game they would think GW2 is one of the worst game ever made.

Only, maybe, if they were a novice to games forums.

Anyone, who has any experience of them, knows that it is when people stop posting you really have to worry.

While they’re still posting, it means they like enough things about the game to care, or did like enough things about it to still care.

They just have certain issues with it and/or its new direction.

warbignime.4610:

Reddit does have negativity of course, but there are also positivity. Player help each other, guide, news, shout out, fan art. This place is pages of complaining after complaining, nothing good ever comes out of here.

Maybe you’re spending too much time in the wrong parts of the forum?

I, personally, find complaints interesting (even the rude ones!), as I feel they shed light on possible issues and hold the most sincerity.

But, if I found them disturbing, or upsetting, I either wouldn’t hang around on the parts of the forums that contained most of them, or I wouldn’t click on them.

Straylight.7529:

sephiroth.4217:

If I understand this right:

You’re complaining about players who are complaining the game THEY bought under the pretenses of “casual, grindless MMO” is now a grindfest with no room for casuals?

They have every right to complain in my opinion, they did after all make a purchase based off marketing tactics produced by this company. A selling point to most players now rendered void.

Arenanet made it very clear that HoT is going to offer the most challenging content to date. Everyone who spent 15 minutes googling the expansion before purchasing knew that. Those who didn’t only have themselves to blame.

If people were just going from that statement, alone, it is not nearly specific enough.

“Going to offer…” doesn’t and shouldn’t mean “Will exclusively offer…”, or “Will give you no other option than doing…”.

Adding raids to a game, alone, could have been the entire reason for that “Going to offer the most challenging content to date.” statement; without the entire game being made that way.

…and if people were going from their prior experience of a game like WoW, for example (which wouldn’t have been unreasonable), that game has raids, but it also has far more accessible content, simultaneously.

In fact, it even has a more accessible version of the raids, themselves.

So, based on that statement alone, it’s not at all unreasonable if they assumed the two could (and probably would) exist side-by-side.

knives.6345:

There will always be complaints because some people think the game is made for themselves instead of for the community.

Well, it is made at least partially for them, because they are part of the “community”.

Obviously, if they always seem to have minority opinions and/or unfair-to-others opinions, any well thought-out game will tend to be disappointing for them.

But, assuming that is not the case, it is reasonable for them to expect that at least most of the content will please them.

Otherwise, why would most people even bother playing games?

This game has taken a departure from its roots, in this xpac, so of course that will displease people.

If you liked Snickers and bought a “New, Improved, Snickers” and it turned out to be a fish stick, in a Snickers wrapper, of course you would probably be disappointed.

Even if it was a good quality fish stick and they kind of did try to, partially, warn you in advance, in some rather obscure postings and long online streams.

There are certain things you can change in a game and probably get away with; especially things that were badly designed/unbalanced, to begin with.

Some people would probably still complain, but they wouldn’t be too many and some well written responses, about how the new things were objectively better, would be hard for them to refute.

But, these changes are solely about subjective taste.

So, of course you’re not going to get away with a massive shift in gameplay direction, difficulty and priorities, without quite a lot of people being upset.

Some other people might be happy, or might not mind.

But, if the people who do mind are in the majority, which is as you would expect when a game changes like this, there will inevitably be a lot of complaints.

Please learn what MMO actually refers to.

Clue: it doesn’t, automatically, mean everyone actively playing together.

Also, you can make the most gold by standing, on your own, in DR/LA, playing the TP.

Um, what was that about people being lazy and antisocial, again?

I do find it hard to support ex-speedrunners, in their quest to become the number 1 gold-earners, again, but still.

Playing the TP 24/7 isn’t any better.

In fact, it’s probably even worse.

…and yes, you are being the very definition of a hypocrite, in complaining about the game, while denigrating other people’s complaints.

Everyone has a right to complain about anything about the game.

They don’t need your approval, just as you don’t need theirs.

I would support this.

I don’t think you, or your niece, should have to make new accounts just to avoid him.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

There are no “flaws” to our positions.

What a bold statement.

Even verified experts, in professional situations, are normally far too cautious to make claims like that.

I won’t comment on the rest of it, suffice to say that I do believe that you should strive to make the majority of players happy, I do believe doing that makes for a better game; but I don’t believe you have to make everyone instantly “rich”, or give everyone what they want immediately, to make that happen.

Also, I don’t fall into the category of customer you describe, at all.

I have known people who do, they certainly exist – but this assumption, that certain people seem to have, that everyone does, is incorrect.

Ohoni.6057:

Wanze has more money than dozens of players put together, and he apparently put 10K hours in. You greatly underestimate your fellow players. I’m not saying that players should be given “everything for free,” I’m just saying that the average player should have no less access to the things they want than those who are particularly good at the TP. If gold is relatively easy to come by for some, then it should be equally easy to come by for all, regardless of their skills at economics. If you argue that the average player should not have more than he already does, then fair enough, but then TP fatcats should have no more than those other players have either.

Quite.

The fundamental point, here, is that if it is deemed OK, by Anet, for us to make lots of gold via TP flipping, then it should also be deemed OK, by Anet, for us to make roughly the same amount of gold, via doing pretty much any other (legal) in-game activity.

…and if it is not deemed OK, by Anet,. for us to make lots of gold via most other in-game activities, why should it continue to be deemed OK for us to do it via TP flipping, alone?

…and whatever the answer is to that, how many people actually want to play a TP mini game, all day every day, or know they are seriously wasting their time (gold-wise), doing other things?

Especially in a game where gold = real money.

…and if people know that, why on earth should they continue wasting their time playing a game like that, unless they just happen to be one of the relatively few who enjoy TP flipping?

You see, guys?

It is important to cater to the majority of players, if for no other reason than they will be bloody annoyed once they figure out you aren’t and may just refuse to continue to play ball.

…and now, we really are back to the original subject of this thread.

Ensign.2189:

Tigaseye.2047:

I totally see why they do it – they need to make money, somehow – but it does make the game a less interesting and fulfilling experience than it could otherwise be.

It’s not even about making money – they need to have rewards for players who have played the game for 10 hours, and rewards for players who have played 100 hours, and rewards for those who have played 1000 hours. That’s basic player engagement, and them making money from having an engaging game and not ‘lulz I can make someone buy more gold!’

What I’ll say about GW2 is that the 10 hour rewards don’t feel much like rewards, and the 100 hour rewards (roughly full exotics) being delivered by the TP feel less like rewards and more like a slow grind. So everyone ends up fixating on the thousand hour rewards (legendaries and other high price skins).

Except those are thousand hour rewards and people in the hundred hour category are fixated on them, and instead of looking at the hundred hour rewards they get mad at A.Net for holding the thousand hour rewards out of reach and promoting buying gold to get them faster.

Of course, third party gold sellers have always offered that service (with a side of account theft) so A.Net is cleaning that up by offering a legit service…but the real problem is that any rewards outside the biggest and baddest don’t feel much like accomplishments, so for most players it feels like the real rewards are perpetually out of reach without opening the wallet.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

It does feel as though all the, meaningful, objectives are at the end of the endgame.

…and that most of them are about saving and/or buying gold.

In a way, that is a good thing, in theory, as it means you can (again, in theory) play the part(s) of the game you most enjoy, gradually accumulating gold along the way and then, eventually, exchange it for a legendary (or some of the stuff needed to make one).

But, the problem (aside from the fact you could just buy it on a card, on day one!) is that the amount of gold you can get, from various things, varies too widely to seem in any way equal.

…and the other problem is that it is just less engaging to never (or very rarely) have anything really interesting drop, from actually playing.

Not that pure RNG is a perfect system, either, but you know what I mean.

Nike.2631:

Rin.1046:

We need to work together on this. Be strong and be patient. If you are unhappy with the bundle options, DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR MONEY. The more people who give in to this tactic, the more Anet will think it is a success and do it again. They need to understand that we will not accept this kind of crap.

I feel the exact same way about people who buy outfits… which are just locked bundles of armor pieces…

Well, you may feel that way, but it’s not actually the same.

People, genuinely, feel they “need” outfits for levelling in, for example.

The number of transmutation charges, for every new armour piece, would obviously be be ridiculous from 1 – 80.

Whereas, the argument here, is that no one actually wants/needs one item, from this bundle, so much that it is worth buying several others they don’t want at all.

Although, I would still not blame the customer, personally…

Obviously, it doesn’t help, if customers do that, but the fault still (predominantly) lies with Anet and their decision to not provide options, here.

Shame the weapons skins aren’t resellable, actually.

Then, if people wanted the glider and/or the outfit (as I think quite a lot do), but not the weapon, it might seem worth buying the bundle for them.

Especially as they can also sell any dyes they don’t need; perhaps for quite a lot, if they get reasonably lucky.

But, I guess that would mean a few less (i.e. people who only wanted the weapon) would buy the bundle?

Would be interesting to know which made Anet the most sales, actually…

Allowing people to sell the weapon skin on, so they were more likely to buy the bundle, if they didn’t want the skin?

Or not allowing them to, so a few more people, who only wanted the weapon skin, would buy the bundle?

…and whether, even if a few more bought the bundle just for the weapon skin, that would otherwise be outweighed by gold bought for TP purchases of the weapon skin?

Of course, they could also do the same with the outfits and the gliders if they wanted to; but there isn’t already a precedence for selling them (unlike weapon skins)

The upside here is that people, who still need the shadow dyes, can get some of them from the bundle and/or buy them from the TP for a bit (or quite a lot) less, ATM.

Probably not much of a consolation for most of you guys, but quite possibly relatively good news for newer players.

Especially those who also want a couple of the other items from the bundle.

I, basically, agree and the only other reply you received, so far, says it all.

It assumes you are struggling to make gold and very kindly gives you advice on how to make some.

The only problem is, as I always feel forced to point out, this isn’t a sub game.

If it was, it would be so much easier to criticise their decisions and suggest new ones.

As it is, we all know everything they do has to revolve around trying to get people to part with their RL money, at least to an extent.

As such, it’s very hard to suggest anything, as most of the suggestions to make the gameplay experience better, would involve people not feeling the need to pay to skip it…

Basically, it is in the interest of non-sub games to make their content, or at least their most in-game currency profitable content, so unenjoyable that you will pay to skip it.

…and it is in their interest to make gold (or some other type of in-game currency) the focus, while at the same time not providing much of it, so you will hopefully pay to buy some.

With that being the case, how does one make suggestions to improve the game, without (essentially) asking them to work harder to make less money?

Of course, it’s true that if people don’t like the game enough to play it much, they probably won’t pay much for gold, either…

But, still.

I think I’m pretty much done with MMOs…

I’m not (and never have been) interested in the TP mini-game and the only sub one, I’m aware of, recently lost the plot…

All the other MMOs (that I’m aware of) are non-sub, so will inevitably suffer from the same type of issues.

Hey, Ohoni.

Still fighting valiantly on, I see.

It’s very admirable, but if I were you I would just leave the game to sink, or swim, on its own merits.

Make your suggestions and then make a timely exit.

Either they will figure it out, or they won’t.

Arguing with people with (quite literally) vested interests, on here, won’t change anything, sadly.

Nike.2631:

Hey new players, on every page of a thread except the first you can clear the forum bug by clicking on the red page number in the upper left under “add reply” causing the page to reload correctly, instead of putting in a ‘forum bug post’.

Oh, can you?

That’s FAR better then. ><

…and here I was thinking this forum was an embarrassing mess.

How wrong I was.

Forum Bug.

Yes, new players, this is what we have to do, here.