Guild Wars 2

Cyninja.2954:

Ohoni.6057:

So getting the account bound mats like spirit shards, laurels, karma, bloodstone dust, empyrial fragments, dragonite ore for the old stat combos as well as airship oil, auric dust, obsi shards and ley line sparks for the new ones is considered by you no problem at all, while listing your loot for twice or triple the value you usually do is considered impossible.

Right.

I think you simply lost perspective on some things.

That you seem to believe you’ve made a point here just shows that you really don’t understand how the game’s economy works for the average player.

If I had to pick as to who has the better understanding of the ingame economy, it definately be Wanze over you Ohoni.

I’m sure many forum regulars will agree on this point no matter if they are sympathetic to Wanze or not. In order to effectively “play the trading post” one must understand the market. Your theories are nice and dandy, but so far all you’ve been advocating for is “free stuff”. That doesn’t show a lot of understanding.

Haven’t been following this thread, as it was just too depressing to even think about, but just thought I should say that I don’t agree with you, at all.

Both of them probably understand how markets work, it’s just that Ohoni also understands how this affects the players who either don’t understand, or choose not to participate.

The problem is that IRL, even in this unfair world, most people are not forced to gamble on the stock market.

Or to be a business entrepreneur.

Most people can, or should, be able to make a decent living in other ways.

Ways that, hopefully, inspire and challenge them; or, at least, don’t bore and depress them.

So, if you make the only option to make decent money, in a game, something most people either don’t find easy, or don’t enjoy doing, you are inevitably limiting the appeal of that game to a relatively small number of people.

Accusing anyone, who dares to point this out, of being ignorant and/or suffering from sour grapes, is doing them, Anet and most of the other players of the game a disservice.

HenleyLegoMan.4987:

That suggests that gems are more scarce now, than they were a year and a half ago. Did people stop buying gems? Did sales of gems drop by over 50%? I personally don’t think that for a minute.

No, it suggests (to me, anyway) that people have more gold (on average) to buy gems with, so are doing it more often and therefore, causing the price of gems to rise.

I assume that is how it works – although, Anet may also have a hand in setting the prices, for all I know.

Ensign.2189:

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

I think its funny how people say to sell your mats to make money. What they don’t get is that we need those mats for what we are trying to make. So how do you make money to buy mats if you can’t sell them?

If you need the mats you acquire through gameplay, great! In that case they go directly onto your income statement without having to touch the trading post, saving both time and money from saved TP fees. There is also no reason to complain about a lack of ‘liquid’ gold in this case, since you are directly farming the materials you need. Wins all around!

The point, by the way, is that on average a player’s item income (value from drops) is going to be many times greater than their cash income (value from coin) – I’d guess around 8x as a rough estimate. If you don’t pay attention to that item income and don’t value it you’re going to think that your income is only ~10% of what is actually is (on average). Hitting raw gold faucets, in the long run, lowers item prices and raises real incomes – you just have to do some arithmetic to know what your income is now.

Well, there is “no reason to complain”, assuming the person only needs those mats, doesn’t mind taking a long time to gather all of them and doesn’t need (or want) any gold, for anything else.

Look, I know this is how MMOs work – when you’re new, you either have no gold at all, because everything you get you need (or want) to use yourself.

Or, you have no crafting progress, as everything you have gathered you sell for gold for other things.

Then, when you have been playing for longer, you find you have more and more stuff you don’t need, anymore; so, can sell more of it, to buy stuff you do still need/want.

Then, eventually, you need (or want) practically nothing; so, can sell all of it and just sit on your ever growing bank balance.

But, the problem is, that in non-sub games there is both less to get, by just playing the game and also more you are likely to want from the gemstore/TP.

So, you are inevitably stuck, for even longer, at the “Do I keep this and remain broke and basic-looking? Or do I sell it and remain lacking in crafting progress?” stage, for even longer.

…and of course, the temptation is always there to just skip all, or some, of that stage with a credit card.

In a sub game, you have the same problems, to an extent, but there is almost always something in-game to keep people going, without feeling the need to resort to reaching for a card.

There is lower level armour and weapons to farm; both to use, or for skins.

Pet battles (in the case of WoW) to do, to get a large number of companion pets.

You are not left, half so quickly, in this situation of not being able to get anything else, without large amounts of gold (and/or gems).

This game is OKish for a non-sub game, from that POV, when you first start playing; as there is a fair amount of lower level armour/weaps to collect.

But, due to the lack of higher level armour skins, weaps (and of course pets), that drop in-game, it fairly quickly becomes gemstore/TP/BL skins, or (virtually) nothing.

I totally see why they do it – they need to make money, somehow – but it does make the game a less interesting and fulfilling experience than it could otherwise be.

Rin.1046:

Of course, I know that many people are weak willed and/or impatient, and Anet relies on that fact too.

Or they want more than one thing in the bundle, so it seems like an OK deal to them.

The problem is not so much bundling, as bundling being the only option.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Tigaseye.2047:

Agemnon.4608:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Alin.2468:

The bundles are fine, it’s about marketing and discounts. In general, with bundles you can buy more products, cheaper as a whole.

Possibly they could earn more selling them separately, or probably not.
I am confident in the marketing team for making statistics on how is best to sell their products. So I am sure the bundles (as they are now) represent the best decision.

the $60 monocle in Eve say “Hi!” (As I recall, that was met with a less than enthusiastic reception by the players.)

In other words, marketing people are capable of making mistakes, just like any other person.

I think the top hat is way underpriced considering that it’s traditionally associated with rich people. Maybe not $60 much but maybe an achievement reward for having 10,000 gold in your bank?

How would congratulating people for hoarding gold be good for Anet’s business model?

Maybe congratulating them for having earned it, even if they have spent some, or all, of it would work; especially if you included any gold they bought with gems.

But, congratulating them for earning it all in-game and then sitting on it wouldn’t work in their favour.

For that kind of thing to be a possibility, you need a sub game.

Not that I would, particularly, advocate it there, either.

Even in sub games, you need people to spend their gold for a healthy economy.

They have the title, Golden, for getting 200 gold. At the start of the game that was an enormous amount for me (and probably everyone else). 10,000 gold isn’t a huge amount now for some people. Some are very rich.

Well, a title for 200g is one thing – they don’t sell titles in the gemstore.

Something like a tophat (when they do sell cosmetic items, like hats) for 10,000g sitting in your bank, unspent, is another.

I’m not saying they would never do something like that, but the point is that it actually works against their business model to do it, if you think about it.

So, if they did do it, it would be despite that.

ETA: I just saw I said “for that to be a possibility” in my last post.

So, I can see how that would seem like I was saying that.

Maybe change that to “for that to not go against a game’s business model”.

Agemnon.4608:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Alin.2468:

The bundles are fine, it’s about marketing and discounts. In general, with bundles you can buy more products, cheaper as a whole.

Possibly they could earn more selling them separately, or probably not.
I am confident in the marketing team for making statistics on how is best to sell their products. So I am sure the bundles (as they are now) represent the best decision.

the $60 monocle in Eve say “Hi!” (As I recall, that was met with a less than enthusiastic reception by the players.)

In other words, marketing people are capable of making mistakes, just like any other person.

I think the top hat is way underpriced considering that it’s traditionally associated with rich people. Maybe not $60 much but maybe an achievement reward for having 10,000 gold in your bank?

How would congratulating people for hoarding gold be good for Anet’s business model?

Maybe congratulating them for having earned it, even if they have spent some, or all, of it would work; especially if you included any gold they bought with gems.

But, congratulating them for earning it all in-game and then sitting on it wouldn’t work in their favour.

For that kind of thing to be a possibility, you need a sub game.

Not that I would, particularly, advocate it there, either.

Even in sub games, you need people to spend their gold for a healthy economy.

Yeah, the medium Leystone is truly hideous.

Actually looks better in that colourway than it does in some others.

The thing is, guys, much as I agree with a lot of your sentiments, at some point you have to make a choice.

B2P is a nice idea but, in the longer term, it relies on a lot of new players continuing to pay to enter the game and as a game gets older (even if it’s still fairly new, in MMO terms), fewer players will pay full price for it.

…and as time goes on, that original $50 (or whatever) you paid for the base game obviously means less and less, on average, was paid by you per month/year played.

So, they produce an xpac and offer a F2P trial, to entice people in.

But the problem is, they know new players were being put off by their treatment in dungeons.

A lot of the vets were speedrunning and didn’t even want to include newer players at all (and said as much, on here).

If any newer players, accidentally, found themselves in a speedrun, they were generally treated badly and/or with very little patience.

A few more, more far-sighted vets, were “accepting” them, but often only in a very strict, training for future speedruns, type of capacity.

Anet knows these were not fun experiences for newer players and threaten new player retention.

Retention is even more important now than it was previously, as the current crop of new players haven’t even bought the game/xpac, yet.

So, that’s the B2P option: it involves a game being newer and/or frequently expanded, cooperation from the entire playerbase and good and fair treatment of new players.

So, that didn’t work out as well as was possibly hoped.

So, what is the next option?

Less reliance on selling endless copies of the game/xpacs and more reliance on people buying gems – so, heading more towards a F2P model.

…and yet another reason to nerf very generous dungeon rewards.

The third option would, obviously, be a sub model.

This is my preferred option, personally.

Unfortunately, however, a lot of people on here say they would leave, if that was introduced.

Not entirely sure they’re representative of the entire community, or the prospective community if a sub existed?

After all, much as there are people who will only play F2P and/or B2P games, there are also people who will only play sub games.

But, those sub games do, generally, have to be really (and consistently) good, to retain paying players.

The advantages of a sub game are fairly well known.

Everyone is paying the same, on a regular basis, so they don’t have to limit the in-game rewards nearly as much and there can be far less emphasise on any cash store.

The disadvantages (depending on the attitude of the company involved) include the “best” in-game rewards, often, being limited to high-level content (like “real” raids) only.

Leaving casual players feeling they are, essentially, subsidising the relatively few hardcore players.

However, this needn’t be the case.

They could choose to spread the best rewards, fairly evenly, through all types of content and/or have the same rewards drop in a variety of different content, if they wanted to.

The point is, you have to choose and quite possibly, the game-play experience you are looking for is more likely to be delivered with some kind of sub-type system.

Whether you like the idea of actually paying a sub, or not.

Palador.2170:

You know, I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that before. Quite some time ago. They’re just recycling a used page, it’s nothing new.

Me too.

It’s not new.

belhor.5610:

What are you babbling all in this forum?

I babbling all nothing in this forum.

Lolyta.4582:

I’m just wondering if the choice as to who to kill off during the Personal Stories is made based on who is the most endearing and personable character in the game?

First, the amazingly endearing Tybalt Leftpaw is taken from us. Why? Why him? Couldn’t you have taken the uber-annoying and shamefully defeatist vegetable (“This won’t end well…”) instead?

Now, for no apparent reason (it could’ve been anybody, after all) Eir Stegalkin, the epitome of a strong woman more than holding her own in a man’s world, is betrayed by someone she’s trying to help and brutally murdered. Why not take her son instead? You know, the dumb one with the idiot hairdo that we always want to send to a competent barber?

Just some random thoughts…

Saying “this won’t end well” isn’t defeatist.

It’s a prediction and let’s face it, probably a true one, a lot of the time.

Eir’s son seems alright to me, as well.

I wouldn’t wish death on any of them.

Algreg.3629:

Jahroots.6791:

Nope. They’re just enjoying a JUSTIFIED sense of superiority.

FIFY. Because in the relevant field, they are superior (lying about their own prowess excluded).

You didn’t fix anything.

Most of the time these people are barely literate, average at the game (and most other things in life) at best and lying through their teeth.

They wish they were superior to anyone, or anything, in any field, but they clearly aren’t.

Or, it’s in such an obscure and irrelevant “field” that no one cares.

People who really are “superior” in their relevant fields normally have more dignity and self respect than to go around shouting about it, or putting other people down.

A notable exception would be someone with a personality disorder, such as the Sheldon Cooper type; but most people who act like this in games are, very obviously, nowhere near his character’s intellectual equal.

Moopy.7908:

That’s YOUR problem.

What I genuinely wonder, is if people who say things like this, actually, think it is helpful, in any way?

femalehumanmeta.8351:

I really really doubt this will happen. Just look at the price of shadow dyes. They’ve plummeted, which leads me to believe a lot of people bought the bundle.

Expect to see more craptastic bundles in the future.

To be fair, I doubt it would take that much to make them plummet.

Probably 200 people buying the bundle would be enough to make that happen.

The thing is, people (especially newer people), who may not have spent their 2000 gems with xpac yet, are being targeted with these bundles.

Whether Anet will continue to see it as a viable strategy, in the future (when most people have already spent their 2000 gems), is another matter.

It may be, that once (almost) everyone has spent their 2000, it would make more sense to tempt people with smaller purchases, again.

Auralae.7482:

Thank YOU for the lecture on how the English language works. I’m well aware of how it does and have made a living off it for a very long time. Perhaps I should break it down for you, since you seem to have missed the point.

No one is being forced, whether literally or figuratively, because they hold all the power in this scenario. As a consumer, they can buy it or not buy it.

As someone previously said, “It is your perception that this is forced they are counting on.”

Being forced or other such terms imply that the consumer is a powerless, hapless victim who must just go along with it. Not only is English fluid, it’s also powerful, and the appropriate choices can make a difference in perception. There is no obligation or being forced to buy. There is choice, and in that choice, the consumer has far more power to change Anet’s practices.

OK…

All I can say is, while you may have “made a living off it”, you clearly don’t really know how it, actually, works in the real world.

Or, not in the real world, in 2015, in English speaking countries, like the UK, or the US, anyway.

People don’t (and haven’t for a very long time) only used the word “forced” in the very literal sense.

So, trying to insist they do, on here, is both unfair and pointless.

I do agree with you that people shouldn’t feel they are hapless victims, however and should vote with their wallets; but, that doesn’t alter the fact that, in order to buy one item, they are currently forced (or obliged) to buy several others.

Or not buy anything, at all.

Where I don’t agree, is your suggestion that people are made to feel like hapless victims, by choosing to use the word “forced”.

I don’t agree, because the fact they have made that choice to use that particular word, IMO, proves they don’t view the word as having such an, exclusively, strong meaning as you seem to.

Or not in this particular context, anyway.

Finally, I would like to say that I wasn’t trying to lecture you, but rather address this constant nit picking over semantics, which tends to take place on these forums all too often and doesn’t seem to get us anywhere fast.

Unfortunately, I just seemed to have made things even worse, but at least I tried.

Palador.2170:

misterman.1530:

Misguided.5139:

Most of the time I think this kind of complaint is silly, but I have to agree in this case. I understand this is important to them and they want to promote it. But I could care less. An option to not see a given message again would be appreciated. I would prefer not to have it cluttering up the screen the entire time I play and every time I zone.

You “…could care less”, which implies you care a little. Or did you mean you “….couldn’t care less”?

https://xkcd.com/1576/

Also… Dear ANet.

I can’t help but think that you’re wasting your money on this. Maybe you don’t need money any more. I’ll keep that in mind.

Sincerely,
A Whale.

Yes, the correct term is “couldn’t care less”.

In other words, it would not be possible for you to care less about the issue.

“Could care less” would imply you do care, at least somewhat.

OT, but if they call people who spend, say, $1,000+ per year on a game “whales”, wonder what they call people who spend a few $100s?

Dolphins?

Porpoises?

Agemnon.4608:

Nova Stiker.8396:

I have nearly 6,000 PvP games and have been playing around since beta.

I must say proudly annoucing a cash prize in an unbalanced and buggy mess is an insult to Esports. Adding more insult to injury is the very small PvP community.

Stop it ArenaNet.

But it is “balanced” when everyone picks the same OP classes and specs

QFT.

Can’t say I’m that bothered by them promoting it.

Although, I’m not really interested in watching it, either.

Forum Bug.

(15 chars)

SirMoogie.9263:

• Players being so upset by this tactic they quit the game (I don’t find this likely either)

On the whole I agree with you, but what I think you’re leaving out, here, is the cumulative effect of stuff like this, over time.

I don’t think many people would leave over something like this, alone, but it could be another nail in the coffin for them.

I know, ITA.

The bundles should be an option, for those who want everything (or most things) in them, but not the only option.

Swift.1930:

Uh… really? Hasn’t work for me any other time; I’ll need to try it again when I get home. I’ve also never seen anyone in an outfit minus the helmet, but maybe I just haven’t been paying enough attention.

Yeah, they toggle off.

I pretty much never show helm with outfits.

Most of them look better without them, IMO.

Auralae.7482:

Several people are using the word “forced” here. No one is “forcing” you to do anything. The items aren’t something you need and no one is holding a gun to your head and telling you to buy the bundle. Yes, it’s a crappy business tactic, but let’s not be overly dramatic. If you don’t want to buy the bundle, then don’t buy the bundle. At least you aren’t being penalized for not purchasing.

They don’t mean “forced” in the sense of having no option whether to buy the bundle, or not.

They just mean that, if they wanted to buy object a) they would be forced to also buy objects b), c) and d).

Which is true and is a correct usage of the word “forced”.

You could substitute the word “obliged”, for the word “forced”, there, if it makes you feel any better; but it all means the same, in the end.

I really think people need to be a little less literal, on these forums.

Words, in English, are often quite fluid and can mean, or imply, many different things and/or or levels of things.

If someone is just sitting there Googling word meanings and taking a word to only mean meaning number 1, all the time, of course people may look like they’re being overly melodramatic.

But, that isn’t how the English language works.

warbignime.4610:

Shen Slayer.3058:

Oh hell No!!!! After this expansion, I’m pretty much done with this franchise. I don’t care is there’s GW 3, 4,5 or 10. I’m just so done with Anet, they don’t have the same visions as the original GW1 developer. It’s just getting worst and worst.

Then please send all gold and T6/7 mats to the id to the left ty.

How original.

Has this shameless begging ever worked out for you before?

Inoki.6048:

Tigaseye.2047:

No, not as things stand.

My gut instinct was to not buy this one, but then I relented.

It’s not all bad – some parts of the maps are beautiful (the artwork in this game is great), I have a lovely tiger pet (even though she was stressful to get) and a nice new bow skin.

I enjoyed some of the personal story

Speaking of the story – if you want to know the background of Scarlett Briar you have to unlock 5 chapters for 200 gems each… That should’ve been included with the expac.

Yeah, you’re right, it should.

Prior to the xpacs, charging for the living world made sense, but I don’t get how it makes sense to charge extra for content, with an xpac?

Maybe I’m missing something?

fixit.7189:

No, this expansion is nothing more than a larger than usual DLC that recycles old content and calls it new. I will never pre-order another game ever again and will wait for reviews a month or two after before I even consider buying it. The gaming industry as a whole is going down the toilet and it’s up to us consumers to put our feet down and say: no! It’s getting to the point were current gamers have no idea what it was like to not have MTs in games and mechanics designed around them, it’s expected and even defended. Sadly people seemingly are not concerned about this trend and still buy into this baloney; game companies think it’s ok and it then gets worse and worse. GG.

Personally, I am done with supporting such shady business practices so the only way I can protest is not pre-order or buy into destiny type game design that is taking the industry by storm. ie. Make complete game, chop it up into little parts, sell 1/3rd of a game at launch, and then sell the missing pieces for more money after. cough 4x blacklion only weapon skin sets compared to ONE (reclaimed set) you can earn in HoT. I see what you did there Anet…not cool.

It’s disgusting if you ask me. I had thought Anet wasn’t like this but that’s all changed for the worse. Live and learn.

In the end it matters little, they got 135 bucks out of me just for HoT not including gems so who cares…most certainly not them.

Caveat Empor at it’s finest.

The problem is, many people on this forum say they don’t want subs.

Some say they would leave if there were subs.

Although I do get that, if you have already poured lots of real money into the game, you don’t want to pay twice; I don’t agree with it, as a general standpoint.

As, it seems to me, that if you want anything fun/goodlooking, or even useful (e.g. bag/bank slots), for your characters, within a reasonable amount of time of starting playing, you need to spend more than you would have on a sub game.

But, I guess you’re talking to people who either don’t care what their chars look like, or enjoy spending all day playing the TP; rather than playing the game itself?

For someone like that, this MT game is a dream come true…

As all those people, who actually like to play the game rather than the market, pretty much entirely fund their “fun” for them.

So, of course they don’t want subs, when they are being subsidised (both directly and indirectly) by other players.

What is especially sickening, though, is that some of these people will then turn around and blame the players, who enjoy playing the actual game enough to help fund it (and them), for “making” the game into a micro transaction one!

Talk about biting the hand that feeds…

I’m not sure how much longer this uneasy “coalition” will continue to exist?

I sense the age of casuals feeding hardcores and TP campers, while generally being treated like crap for it by them (and the game makers, frankly), may be rightfully drawing to an end.

No, not as things stand.

My gut instinct was to not buy this one, but then I relented.

It’s not all bad – some parts of the maps are beautiful (the artwork in this game is great), I have a lovely tiger pet (even though she was stressful to get) and a nice new bow skin.

I enjoyed some of the personal story – especially the part where you’re a rabbit and have to res the NPCs to help you.

I don’t know why, but I really enjoyed that, once I got my head around it

But, I am (obviously) annoyed about the guild thing and the fact the maps feel a little too full-on.

Even though I can manage, I don’t want to have to be constantly alert in openworld content and I can sense some others around me aren’t happy (even if they don’t say anything).

If other (nice) people aren’t happy, I don’t feel particularly happy.

It also feels too “real” raidcentric.

It could have done with some kind of LFR version, IMO, to ease people in and give them some ascended gear, so they could then progress on to the real raid, if they wanted, for the legendaries.

Serophous.9085:

Tigaseye.2047:

Devata.6589:

Coyote.7031:

Tigaseye.2047:

The thing is, we’re all being treated like we have paid the bare minimum for all this, over the last 3 years.

But, some of us haven’t.

Oh I haven’t been playing for 3 years. I’ve been playing off and on for since late January. Seriously try explaining to vets how expensive things are now, and you will get no sympathy. Like dyes? Some of them are 10 to 20 times more expensive than they were when people started 3 years ago. And people just tell me, well don’t buy it. So I don’t get to look cool? Like you? Because I started later? Or how about gold to gem conversions? Also very pricey. Runes? Good ones are expensive and I can’t really go out and farm the materials for them. Some of them I can’t even make because the recipes only existed in certain events.

I have grinded my butt off to get what I have, I have converted over 1500g, 400g worth of dyes and the entire collection of dyes costs 6900, and thrown about 70 dollars at the game(no expansion yet.) And I still feel like I’m behind. I haven’t bothered crafting ascended gear because it costs as much or nearly a precursor at this point. Not very fun.

“and thrown about 70 dollars at the game” Don’t blame Anet for a system YOU created.

Your complains are valid, however you are one of the persons creating this system.

No, they didn’t.

The “system” was already in place and they just utilised it.

How long do you think this game, really, would have existed, if absolutely no one had ever bought anything from the gemstore (or wherever) for real money?

I know they called it “B2P”, but it blatantly was never actually just that.

Otherwise, why on earth can we buy gems and either use them in the gemstore, or convert them to gold?

Because why buy gold from gold sellers which can get you banned or hacked, when you can just buy gold from the company itself?

Yes, I’m not actually questioning why they let us buy gold.

That is pretty obvious.

It may be partly for that reason, but it is mainly to allow Anet to make some extra income.

When a game like WoW charges a sub, I have no problem with a company like Anet, who only charge for the original game/xpac otherwise, charging for some cosmetic stuff.

Which people can choose to buy, or not.

I do have a problem with people being able to effectively (or literally) buy ascended/legendary stuff, but that is probably for another thread.

I also have a problem with stuff that people have worked for (or even purchased) just being arbitrarily removed.

If it was for some “greater good” of the game, then fair enough.

But it, clearly, isn’t.

Devata.6589:

Coyote.7031:

Tigaseye.2047:

The thing is, we’re all being treated like we have paid the bare minimum for all this, over the last 3 years.

But, some of us haven’t.

Oh I haven’t been playing for 3 years. I’ve been playing off and on for since late January. Seriously try explaining to vets how expensive things are now, and you will get no sympathy. Like dyes? Some of them are 10 to 20 times more expensive than they were when people started 3 years ago. And people just tell me, well don’t buy it. So I don’t get to look cool? Like you? Because I started later? Or how about gold to gem conversions? Also very pricey. Runes? Good ones are expensive and I can’t really go out and farm the materials for them. Some of them I can’t even make because the recipes only existed in certain events.

I have grinded my butt off to get what I have, I have converted over 1500g, 400g worth of dyes and the entire collection of dyes costs 6900, and thrown about 70 dollars at the game(no expansion yet.) And I still feel like I’m behind. I haven’t bothered crafting ascended gear because it costs as much or nearly a precursor at this point. Not very fun.

“and thrown about 70 dollars at the game” Don’t blame Anet for a system YOU created.

Your complains are valid, however you are one of the persons creating this system.

No, they didn’t.

The “system” was already in place and they just utilised it.

How long do you think this game, really, would have existed, if absolutely no one had ever bought anything from the gemstore (or wherever) for real money?

I know they called it “B2P”, but it blatantly was never actually just that.

Otherwise, why on earth can we buy gems and either use them in the gemstore, or convert them to gold?

In a sub game, like Wow, you might have a point; but this is not and has never been a sub game.

Zaklex.6308:

Obviously no one understands that NO guild was meant to unlock everything in the Guild Hall within the first week or even first 3 weeks. The Guild Hall is a LONG TERM investment, which means small guilds NEED to spread the cost out over MONTHS and not look at weeks. That is how it’s set up currently and I highly doubt it will change.

No, EVERYONE understands that.

Correction: there might be some 5 year old somewhere who doesn’t (bless him, or her).

The rest of us understand that perfectly well.

The point is, most of it isn’t worth it and if you are a member of a tiny guild (especially a one-person guild), you have no hope at all of unlocking it, ever.

Or, more to the point, as tiny guilds don’t actually need to unlock a massive guild hall, for the hall itself; you have no chance at all of getting back what you had already acquired and lost, in terms of upgrades, or what you were already in the process of working on.

Whether you want the actual guild hall “building” (if you can even call them that?), or not.

Quite frankly, all “guild halls” could spontaneously combust, for all I care.

I think they’re boring and lazily designed.

I just want to be able to build up my little guild and unlock the last bank tab, with influence, as I was perfectly happily in the process of doing, before.

…and other people, with tiny guilds, who had already done that, just want the other things they had already acquired to still be available to them.

Without these, largely pointless, artificial gold-sink wind-tunnels, that are the “guild halls” getting in the way.

Coyote.7031:

Tigaseye.2047:

The thing is, we’re all being treated like we have paid the bare minimum for all this, over the last 3 years.

But, some of us haven’t.

Oh I haven’t been playing for 3 years. I’ve been playing off and on for since late January. Seriously try explaining to vets how expensive things are now, and you will get no sympathy. Like dyes? Some of them are 10 to 20 times more expensive than they were when people started 3 years ago. And people just tell me, well don’t buy it. So I don’t get to look cool? Like you? Because I started later? Or how about gold to gem conversions? Also very pricey. Runes? Good ones are expensive and I can’t really go out and farm the materials for them. Some of them I can’t even make because the recipes only existed in certain events.

I have grinded my butt off to get what I have, I have converted over 1500g, 400g worth of dyes and the entire collection of dyes costs 6900, and thrown about 70 dollars at the game(no expansion yet.) And I still feel like I’m behind. I haven’t bothered crafting ascended gear because it costs as much or nearly a precursor at this point. Not very fun.

I know.

I started in January, as well.

Let’s just say I’ve spent far too much money, already.

Not anywhere near the amount the guy who left, recently, saying he’d spent “tens of thousands” spent, but still far too much for the amount of months played.

..,and then they do this.

Like we’ve all had a practically free ride for 3 years, or are F2P players.

Labjax.2465:

I’ve had enough of gear grinds to last me a lifetime and because of how stat variation works in GW2, there might as well be four or five tiers of gear per class if you want to be optimal.

I know.

I really think they need to both reduce the number of gear sets to a more manageable amount and also make the stats easily changeable on ascended gear.

Expecting people to get one set of ascended, for every gear type, is enough; without expecting them to have to get several (or change them all via the forge, all the time).

Also, I think we need something other than the bank, or our bags, to store account wide gear in.

It’s bad enough filling up your bag with different sets of exotic gear, on one char, but having to visit the bank on both the char that has the ascended gear and the one that needs it, before being able to play, is a nightmare.

In fact, such a nightmare, that I bought two sets of same-stat trinkets, so I at least didn’t need to do that for WvW, on two chars.

I still have to change my gathering tools and keep forgetting. ><

Do they really expect people to buy multiple sets of gemstore gathering tools for several chars?

I’m beginning to see how that poor guy, who left, spent “tens of thousands”, now. :/

Surely, they would make more overall, though, by making things sharable, via the hero panel?

As more people would buy them.

Two weaps, two armour pieces and some rings from drops.

Trinkets from WvW badges and laurels.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

You literally just spent 4 paragraphs describing being jealous.

I most certainly did not.

The only way this would be even close to a valid argument for something is if getting a landfall of wealth meant that suddenly you could no longer get that wealth. I.E a finite resource is suddenly owned and controlled by a single person and you can not obtain it any other way. That would be grounds for a complaint/change. Being jealous is not.

Windfall.

The word is windfall, not “landfall”.

I have nothing more to add.

I suggest you re-read what I wrote.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So basically… people are lazy and jealous of people who are hard working…

Well that isn’t exactly a shocking revelation is it?

Well, no, it’s saying that one person getting a windfall, or very uneven wealth distribution in general, actually demotivates people, as it makes them depressed.

…and that depression makes them less productive than they were previously, or than they would be otherwise.

It has nothing to do with working harder, or less hard, as these are windfalls.

Also, as I would hope we would all realise, working harder doesn’t necessarily mean earning more money.

It depends, far more, on what you do; not how hard you work at it.

Most people, in capitalist countries, believe that one person getting rich motivates others to try to get rich too; but, actually, that isn’t necessarily true.

In fact, it can often have the opposite effect.

That is the point.

Also (and this goes against the study somewhat – maybe because it happens in already developed countries more), but I happen to know that some people, especially people from poorer backgrounds, or people who are friends with people from poorer backgrounds, often feel guilty if they “succeed”, or are given chances to succeed, when their friends and family aren’t.

So, that can also be a demotivating factor.

As some people would rather remain poorer, rather than risking upsetting, or losing the friendship, of those close to them.

The more unevenly distributed the wealth is at the time, the more this seems to happen.

Wanze.8410:

So whats the point? Anet should try to make the mayority of the player base happy?

Arent they trying to do that?

No.

Or, if they are, they are failing badly.

The game has definitely gone in a big guild, more hardcore player, direction.

Devata.6589:

I had one Ascended weapon box, but it was Rabbid what was useless for me (See why I dislike this part of MMO’s).

You can change the stats in the mystic forge.

You can Google how to do it.

Problem is, it costs gold and you lose all upgrades in the process, but it’s alright for a one time thing.

But, in general, I agree with you.

FogLeg.9354:

Exactly, why would anyone join small guild with no upgrades? You have to be very poor or very stupid (not talking about guilds from real life family or firends), and you if you are small guild struggling, you probably dont want to recruit poor and stupid members.

Or very kind and/or generous.

Which, of course, some people (I think they call those people psychopaths?) view as the same thing.

Being punished for being kind, in games, is always a great design choice. ><

Coyote.7031:

It’s a real shame they yoinked your guild buffs and threw them behind a huge gold sink and pay wall. That 3 years you spent building up your guild and earning all those buffs? Gone. I’m surprised they didn’t take vaults away too.

Probably only didn’t because, then, where would they have put all our stuff?

Surprised they didn’t mail it all back to us with a “Here’s your stuff, but don’t worry, you can buy your guild bank back, when you get your guild hall!” message attached.

The thing is, we’re all being treated like we have paid the bare minimum for all this, over the last 3 years.

But, some of us haven’t.

Some of us haven’t been playing for the full 3 years and/or have been pretty free in supporting the game, financially, with the idea that, as we progress, we will find it easier to support ourselves, or even make some of it back.

So, to now find that that will be virtually impossible, especially in certain areas, is very disappointing.

They should have left the regular way of building up guilds as it was, via influence.

It was a good, fair (if slow, for smaller guilds), system.

Smaller guilds were probably already paying more real money to do it, anyway, as they were more likely to give-in and purchase influence with gold, to speed up the process.

Then, the guild hall should have been offered beyond all that original progress and stuff acquired – as an added extra for the bigger guilds that already had everything.

Most smaller guilds would have been more than happy, if we had just stayed with the previous system, until we had completed it and had kept any upgrades we already had.

Especially if, for example, we could have just been given relatively easy ways to improve the Guild Initiative Headquarters in Lion’s Arch, slightly and make that our guild’s “home”.

Or, maybe, been given another little building, somewhere, appropriate to the size of our guild.

But, even without that, just not taking what we already had, or our means to progress further, away would have been OK.

I mean, really, when I think about it, I have actually paid to lose more than I have, personally, gained from this xpac.

How can that possibly be OK?

Lunar Sunset.8742:

Tigaseye.2047:

Pezz.4758:

Tigaseye.2047:

Kurogami.9210:

Let’s be honest: ANet included raids because players asked for them. They made HoT harder because players asked for challenging content. They added masteries and hero points because players complained that there wasn’t much left to do once you reach a certain point in the game. Of course ANet made mistakes in the way they implemented these things, but you can’t deny that GW2 becoming more and more like most other 08/15 MMOs is because many players want GW2 to be like other MMOs. This is what happens when developers listen too much to their players.

What I don’t understand is why these devs (not just Anet devs – pretty much ALL devs) STILL don’t seem to get that one type of person’s opinion isn’t, necessarily, as representative of the playbase, as a whole, as another’s.

Surely, they must have noticed, by now, that a certain type of player – let’s call them “hardcore” – tends to comment about games, on the internet, far more often than another type – let’s call them “casual” – ever does.

They MUST have noticed this, surely?!

…and yet, they seem to treat all comments as if they were created equal and are all equally representative of the playerbase make-up, as a whole.

Despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary, all around them…

I just don’t get it.

its not just Anet alot of companies do this
what i dont understand AT ALL is this is the same umbrella company as wildstar

wildstar, i game that MARKETED from day 1 as hardcore old school MMO
FAILED MISERABLY . And now GW2, arguably the most casual friendly, relaxed
no set goal chill out MMO is trying to adopt a more hardcore approach?
if a game strictly marketed as such failed, how did they think the homebase for all the people who left raid games like wow, wildstar FF would fair? i honestly cant even begin to fathom how this was thought to be a good idea.

I know – absolutely.

I was thinking about Wildstar as I wrote that, actually.

I never played it, but from what I understand, it is basically a combination of the least widely popular things from WoW and GW2.

A good combination of WoW and GW2 could (and should) be absolutely amazing.

…and yet, apparently, they managed to get it completely wrong.

Almost, literally, the opposite of what it should have been.

…and then they do the same here? O.o

Bizarre.

Keep your WoW out of my GW2. LOL!

I agree, assuming they really can’t seem to see which are, truly, the best bits and which are, purely, the niche interests/levels of grind/difficulty.

Frankly, it’s like a bunch of aliens, who don’t understand typical human nature, or habits, at all, have been left to design games.

Please note that I don’t include the artists in the above comment…

They do a very good job, on the whole and seem far more like real people.

I tend to think they should be left in charge of the big decisions, rather than the gameplay devs (or whoever else is making the decisions, currently).

Their levels of intuition and people skills are probably far better, for a start.

Sorry to sound a bit harsh, but it needs to be said.

Petrol.9086:

Whenever a new game is released or new content is added, it’s going to upset someone and they’ll head of to the forums and complain about it. Nothing new here, you can’t please everyone.

You can’t please everyone, but striving to please the fewest number of people possible is surely not the goal?

…and that is what games devs (not just in this game, but in many games, lately) seem to be doing.

Maybe the real problem is, that most of us simply shouldn’t be playing these games, at all?

Maybe the problem is that we were lured-in under false pretences?

If so, it’s extremely rude and unfair to lure people into what they think is going to be one thing and then switch it to another.

Like being lured into what you think is a normal party, only to discover, two hours in, that it’s not actually a normal party, at all…

This is not what you are supposed to do to people; especially paying customers.

ZachAttack.3957:

In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.

No, what “we all” have to realise, is that that is not what the term “MMO” refers to and how “we all” could have learned that, in this very thread, is by reading some posts, other than the OP and our own.

Swift.1930:

Tigaseye.2047:

Linken.6345:

The reason a guild would have 100% rep now days is much harder to justify then before change.

Before rep gave influence that you used to build now it dont, They do however probabely want to build a community in said guild were people get to know eachother hence the 100% rep.

You can read and respond to guild chat, simultaneously, for all the guilds you’re a member of; whether you are repping them, or not.

So, really, there is absolutely no reason for 100% rep, now, apart from possibly for advertising purposes.

By advertising, I mean people seeing people with the guild name running around, so maybe being more inclined to join it.

Well… when you rep your guild, you can see where all the other (online) people repping the guild are on the world map. Pretty neat change, but still not enough to encourage loyalty everywhere I guess.

Yeah, I guess that is another valid reason.

Zaklex.6308:

Just in case no one else has said it: skins are NOT content, skins are fluff…and I don’t really care what other say about it…skins are NOT content.

They are fluff, but they are fluff that some people really want.

Especially when a game starves you of a decent selection of skins, obtainable from more general content.

Linken.6345:

The reason a guild would have 100% rep now days is much harder to justify then before change.

Before rep gave influence that you used to build now it dont, They do however probabely want to build a community in said guild were people get to know eachother hence the 100% rep.

You can read and respond to guild chat, simultaneously, for all the guilds you’re a member of; whether you are repping them, or not.

So, really, there is absolutely no reason for 100% rep, now, apart from possibly for advertising purposes.

By advertising, I mean people seeing people with the guild name running around, so maybe being more inclined to join it.

If you mean the whole permastack and melee thing, in instances, I think that is a huge design mistake and that people shouldn’t even humour it.

If you’ve come here from a game like WoW, you can see how utterly ridiculous that is, so you are likely to just laugh and/or refuse to comply.

Being flexible, within reason, is one thing, but being forced to “adapt” to blatant cheesing, as if that is a good thing, is quite another.

Also, if people want to play ranged/ranged, they should be able to and in this game, you simply can’t, unless your group is prepared to humour you.

It may seem innovative to some; but, actually, it’s just bad design.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

People are just human. Some listen; some don’t. Some like to adapt; some don’t. Some like to witch and bine; some like to try something new.

Typically, when I see nattering nabobs of negativity in /map or /say, I /block them. If they post here, I ignore them (unless they post something that is demonstrably untrue, in which case, I often feel compelled to offer the evidence that refutes that aspect of the rant). And I all-but-completely refuse to play with people who prefer to complain about bugs or difficulty or grind, rather than work to succeed (the sole exception being for friends of friends).

tl;dr yeah, people have trouble adapting. I try to adapt to that lack of adaption.

Apparently, you don’t…

Blaming, ignoring, refusing to play with and blocking people, for not liking things in a game, is not adapting to them (or their lack of adaption).

If those people were the game, it’s more the equivalent of leaving the game in disgust, rather than adapting to it.

GangNamTwo.9780:

Actually I have deleted posts when I feel a white knight (Sir Vayne) will give me a lengthy reply that I don’t care to read, nor to respond. So, a good solution is to just delete my posts. Truth be told, I just deleted 2 posts last night even thinking of him. lol that’s fear!

Carry on. I’m done with this forum. My current conclusion on HoT is: I am going to find a subscription mmorpg. Gem store does not work well when a company is driving its game design toward getting people to the gem store at every turn. Grind is the best “nudge” for people to hit the gem store. Hence grinds.
Game play thereby suffers!
Um, out of here.

You shouldn’t not post here, just because someone might disagree.

I agree with you re. subs – non sub games may seem like a nice idea, but they simply don’t really work, IMO.

One set of people end up paying too much (often far too much) for the game, while the other set of people pay nothing and either grind themselves into the ground trying to catch up, or remain a lower “class” of player, permanently.

While still being expected to look up at the people who have (mostly) paid to buy stuff.

It’s all kinds of wrong.

If it’s just cosmetic, that is just about bearable, but when better stat gear depends entirely on people farming, or more likely buying, tons of mats, that really is not.

Vayne.8563:

Tigaseye.2047:

Vayne.8563:

Tigaseye.2047:

Vayne.8563:

Grim West.3194:

Vayne.8563:

mcwurth.2081:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone silent again? You must live in a bubble. Let’s talk about the “silence” of Anet for a second.

People complained about 400 points needed for elite specializations and Anet fixed that, by reducing it to 250, which very few people complain about.

People complained about high level mastery gating in the story and Anet removed some of it, so that people could get through the story with only a few basic masteries that are easy to level.

People complained about some hero points, and so Anet changed some of them to make them easier.

They came out with the commander UI, the new legendaries and the raids, just as they said they would and most people seem to be enjoying the raids, at least those that like that sort of thing.

People complained about Fractal rewards and Anet posted they’re working on them and that they’d be fixed/changed in December.

Anet hasn’t been silent in any way, shape or form and only someone deliberately ignoring what’s being said would say so.

Raiding is for serious players who invest time and energy into the game. The few people who think ascended gear is too hard or expensive to get that leave the game, they’ll be a tiny percent of the hard core community.

Actually the biggest “crisis” area of the game right now is WvW and Anet communicated about that too and said it’s simply too big a problem to have addressed yet, but they are working on it and will continue to work on it.

Anet hasn’t be silent and by saying so, you make me question everything else you’ve said.

white knight at its finest here. as you are in many other posts. sorry but arenanet is whispering only, which equals to many people as silence, we are working on it or changes will come next month (promises promises) are not really things that people want to hear. I think what people trying to say is that they want MORE communication from arenanet other then a simpe blogpost. where are all the devs that usually post on the forums? many are used that on a regular base devs reply to topics, SPECIALLY when there are so many “complaints” ( I rather say worries about the future of this game). I do get your point of view. but it seems you are blindly following every single word arenanet is telling you. ´this makes you look like a white knight.

There’s being a white knight and there’s ignoring fact. Which thing did I say wasn’t a fact?

Did Anet change the hero point total needed to unlocked elite specializations. Yes.
Did Anet change some of the hero points, turning them into either communes or veterans? Yes.
Did Anet post about fixing fractal rewards next month? Yes.
Did Anet release the raids and new commander UI yes.

And through all of it they’ve been talking to us. Now talking to us doesn’t mean they’re going to tell you what you want to hear, but saying they’re not talking to us is demonstrably false.

And using terms like White Knight to try to make what I say look untrue is pointless, because what I’ve said is factually true and can be checked.

I’m sorry you have some kind of problem with the game, but that doesn’t mean Anet isn’t talking to us. Saying they’re not is simply wrong.

It’s one thing to complain about something you like. It’s another thing to try to contradict fact. It’s a pointless exercise.

You are white knighting ANET. Those changes were minor and just bandaids on a very horrible expansion.

Actually HoT is more of a “contraction” for many players. WvW has been decimated, small guilds have been kicked to the curb, all their hard work taken away. Dungeons abandonded and huge grind / pay wall set up for everyone to “enjoy”.

HoT is garbage.

Absolutely your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Having a different opinion, however, doesn’t make me a white knight. I’ll always call out BS wherever I see it, not just here, but everywhere.

I didn’t address the OP’s complaints in total. I address something I consider to be a factual fallacy. And that’s ALL I did.

If you have something to say that addresses what I actually said, by all means, quote me. But if you’re just going to call me a white knight because I have a different opinion than you, well, I guess that pretty much says it all right there.

Have a great night.

Vayne, I have noticed that many people call you a white knight, on here and it’s pretty obvious that that is simply because you always seem to defend Anet, in your posts.

You may be calling out “factual fallacies”, as you see them, but these corrections always seem to be in Anet’s favour, for some reason.

If you criticised them, even 20% of the time, people probably wouldn’t call you that.

I’m, genuinely, glad for you if your opinion just happens to coincide with Anet’s, all the time, even when they make seemingly contradictory, or confusing, moves.

But, of course, that seemingly constant support will look unusual to people who see you post regularly, on here.

Most people come to the forum because they have an issue with one, or more, things in the game and if someone is always on here and always appearing to toe the company line, of course it will look odd and/or suspicious to most of them.

At the end of the day, I’m sure Anet can defend themselves perfectly well, if they ever feel the need.

It’s not your job to have to do it.

Or, I assume it’s not, anyway.

I come from a different generation than many posters and I’m not as free with words like lazy and hate and disaster. My problems with hyperbole isn’t limited to Guild Wars 2. In fact, it’s not limited at all. I’ve been through a couple of pretty distressing legal cases where language was used to make things seem a lot worse than they actually were. It’s left be quite sensitive to people accusing other people of something. So this isn’t really a Guild Wars 2 fan boy thing, so much as I stop making personal attacks type thing. I’ve done it in other forums in the past as well, and I do it in real life, even if Guild Wars 2 isn’t involved.

I have no problem with the OP saying HoT is lackluster and I never said anything against it. He’s expressing an opinion, which is his right.

But anytime anyone accuses someone of something that they may not have done, yes, I’m going to take issue with it. If people want to see me as Lancelot, that’s okay. I don’t really have an issue with it. Since when is fighting for something you believe in a bad thing.

And no, Anet really can’t defend themselves. They can’t afford to. They can’t come out and call someone out for getting stuff wrong because it would actually make them look bad.

Where as I don’t personally care if I look bad on a forum. It’s not really an issue for me.

I see.

I don’t think you look bad, Vayne.

You’re just, probably completely unintentionally (from the sound of it), frustrating already frustrated people further!

Sometimes, I think it’s better to just say “I know how you feel…” or “I understand…”, rather than worrying about every little detail they have said being factually correct.

Or, even if you are going to put someone right, factually speaking (which I also feel the need to do, sometimes), to try to sandwich that information between an “I understand how you feel…” and a “Having said that, as I say, I do get what you mean.”, or whatever.

This is just about someone’s personal opinions about a game and/or a games company’s communication levels/venues, after all.

Fortunately, it’s not really that important, in the scheme of things.

I say that too sometimes. I do say to a lot of people I understand why you’d feel this way, and I can sympathize. However, someone saying smething is utter crap or a disaster or whatever, nope. I can’t say that I’d going to sympathize with that person.

However, I can point to lots of times when I actually understand why people feel as they do. I understand why small guilds feel done over. I get that completely.

I understand why some solo players feel that the game is now not soloable (even though a lot of it is).

I understand why people who play WwW feel disenfranchised, or even why people who play Fractals feel done over by the rewards.

But I think HoT is a lot better than a lot of people give it credit for two. The zone design is my favorite part. I find HoT more immersive than the core game, because I’m fighting for me life and involved in a war. That, to me, is immersive.

In the core world I never really felt like I was in danger and that was becoming a problem for me.

As you rightly say, it’s mainly just hyperbole.

People are being, from their points of view, totally honest about how they feel; but they probably are exaggerating slightly (or not so slightly!).

That’s just what most people do – especially when they are at the end of their tethers.

They don’t use words only by their strictly literal meanings.

Maybe we all should, but most of us don’t.

When most people say “hate” they really just mean strongly dislike.

When most people say “a disaster”, they really just mean a big mistake (in their opinion).

When they say “utter crap”, they really (again, in their opinion) just mean disappointingly bad.

Perhaps try to read the toned down versions of the words you feel are too strong, as you know that is what people are really trying to say.

Vayne.8563:

Tigaseye.2047:

Vayne.8563:

Grim West.3194:

Vayne.8563:

mcwurth.2081:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone silent again? You must live in a bubble. Let’s talk about the “silence” of Anet for a second.

People complained about 400 points needed for elite specializations and Anet fixed that, by reducing it to 250, which very few people complain about.

People complained about high level mastery gating in the story and Anet removed some of it, so that people could get through the story with only a few basic masteries that are easy to level.

People complained about some hero points, and so Anet changed some of them to make them easier.

They came out with the commander UI, the new legendaries and the raids, just as they said they would and most people seem to be enjoying the raids, at least those that like that sort of thing.

People complained about Fractal rewards and Anet posted they’re working on them and that they’d be fixed/changed in December.

Anet hasn’t been silent in any way, shape or form and only someone deliberately ignoring what’s being said would say so.

Raiding is for serious players who invest time and energy into the game. The few people who think ascended gear is too hard or expensive to get that leave the game, they’ll be a tiny percent of the hard core community.

Actually the biggest “crisis” area of the game right now is WvW and Anet communicated about that too and said it’s simply too big a problem to have addressed yet, but they are working on it and will continue to work on it.

Anet hasn’t be silent and by saying so, you make me question everything else you’ve said.

white knight at its finest here. as you are in many other posts. sorry but arenanet is whispering only, which equals to many people as silence, we are working on it or changes will come next month (promises promises) are not really things that people want to hear. I think what people trying to say is that they want MORE communication from arenanet other then a simpe blogpost. where are all the devs that usually post on the forums? many are used that on a regular base devs reply to topics, SPECIALLY when there are so many “complaints” ( I rather say worries about the future of this game). I do get your point of view. but it seems you are blindly following every single word arenanet is telling you. ´this makes you look like a white knight.

There’s being a white knight and there’s ignoring fact. Which thing did I say wasn’t a fact?

Did Anet change the hero point total needed to unlocked elite specializations. Yes.
Did Anet change some of the hero points, turning them into either communes or veterans? Yes.
Did Anet post about fixing fractal rewards next month? Yes.
Did Anet release the raids and new commander UI yes.

And through all of it they’ve been talking to us. Now talking to us doesn’t mean they’re going to tell you what you want to hear, but saying they’re not talking to us is demonstrably false.

And using terms like White Knight to try to make what I say look untrue is pointless, because what I’ve said is factually true and can be checked.

I’m sorry you have some kind of problem with the game, but that doesn’t mean Anet isn’t talking to us. Saying they’re not is simply wrong.

It’s one thing to complain about something you like. It’s another thing to try to contradict fact. It’s a pointless exercise.

You are white knighting ANET. Those changes were minor and just bandaids on a very horrible expansion.

Actually HoT is more of a “contraction” for many players. WvW has been decimated, small guilds have been kicked to the curb, all their hard work taken away. Dungeons abandonded and huge grind / pay wall set up for everyone to “enjoy”.

HoT is garbage.

Absolutely your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Having a different opinion, however, doesn’t make me a white knight. I’ll always call out BS wherever I see it, not just here, but everywhere.

I didn’t address the OP’s complaints in total. I address something I consider to be a factual fallacy. And that’s ALL I did.

If you have something to say that addresses what I actually said, by all means, quote me. But if you’re just going to call me a white knight because I have a different opinion than you, well, I guess that pretty much says it all right there.

Have a great night.

Vayne, I have noticed that many people call you a white knight, on here and it’s pretty obvious that that is simply because you always seem to defend Anet, in your posts.

You may be calling out “factual fallacies”, as you see them, but these corrections always seem to be in Anet’s favour, for some reason.

If you criticised them, even 20% of the time, people probably wouldn’t call you that.

I’m, genuinely, glad for you if your opinion just happens to coincide with Anet’s, all the time, even when they make seemingly contradictory, or confusing, moves.

But, of course, that seemingly constant support will look unusual to people who see you post regularly, on here.

Most people come to the forum because they have an issue with one, or more, things in the game and if someone is always on here and always appearing to toe the company line, of course it will look odd and/or suspicious to most of them.

At the end of the day, I’m sure Anet can defend themselves perfectly well, if they ever feel the need.

It’s not your job to have to do it.

Or, I assume it’s not, anyway.

I come from a different generation than many posters and I’m not as free with words like lazy and hate and disaster. My problems with hyperbole isn’t limited to Guild Wars 2. In fact, it’s not limited at all. I’ve been through a couple of pretty distressing legal cases where language was used to make things seem a lot worse than they actually were. It’s left be quite sensitive to people accusing other people of something. So this isn’t really a Guild Wars 2 fan boy thing, so much as I stop making personal attacks type thing. I’ve done it in other forums in the past as well, and I do it in real life, even if Guild Wars 2 isn’t involved.

I have no problem with the OP saying HoT is lackluster and I never said anything against it. He’s expressing an opinion, which is his right.

But anytime anyone accuses someone of something that they may not have done, yes, I’m going to take issue with it. If people want to see me as Lancelot, that’s okay. I don’t really have an issue with it. Since when is fighting for something you believe in a bad thing.

And no, Anet really can’t defend themselves. They can’t afford to. They can’t come out and call someone out for getting stuff wrong because it would actually make them look bad.

Where as I don’t personally care if I look bad on a forum. It’s not really an issue for me.

I see.

I don’t think you look bad, Vayne.

You’re just, probably completely unintentionally (from the sound of it), frustrating already frustrated people further!

Sometimes, I think it’s better to just say “I know how you feel…” or “I understand…”, rather than worrying about every little detail they have said being factually correct.

Or, even if you are going to put someone right, factually speaking (which I also feel the need to do, sometimes), to try to sandwich that information between an “I understand how you feel…” and a “Having said that, as I say, I do get what you mean.”, or whatever.

This is just about someone’s personal opinions about a game and/or a games company’s communication levels/venues, after all.

Fortunately, it’s not really that important, in the scheme of things.

Linken.6345:

Tigaseye.2047:

Vayne.8563:

Grim West.3194:

Vayne.8563:

mcwurth.2081:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone silent again? You must live in a bubble. Let’s talk about the “silence” of Anet for a second.

People complained about 400 points needed for elite specializations and Anet fixed that, by reducing it to 250, which very few people complain about.

People complained about high level mastery gating in the story and Anet removed some of it, so that people could get through the story with only a few basic masteries that are easy to level.

People complained about some hero points, and so Anet changed some of them to make them easier.

They came out with the commander UI, the new legendaries and the raids, just as they said they would and most people seem to be enjoying the raids, at least those that like that sort of thing.

People complained about Fractal rewards and Anet posted they’re working on them and that they’d be fixed/changed in December.

Anet hasn’t been silent in any way, shape or form and only someone deliberately ignoring what’s being said would say so.

Raiding is for serious players who invest time and energy into the game. The few people who think ascended gear is too hard or expensive to get that leave the game, they’ll be a tiny percent of the hard core community.

Actually the biggest “crisis” area of the game right now is WvW and Anet communicated about that too and said it’s simply too big a problem to have addressed yet, but they are working on it and will continue to work on it.

Anet hasn’t be silent and by saying so, you make me question everything else you’ve said.

white knight at its finest here. as you are in many other posts. sorry but arenanet is whispering only, which equals to many people as silence, we are working on it or changes will come next month (promises promises) are not really things that people want to hear. I think what people trying to say is that they want MORE communication from arenanet other then a simpe blogpost. where are all the devs that usually post on the forums? many are used that on a regular base devs reply to topics, SPECIALLY when there are so many “complaints” ( I rather say worries about the future of this game). I do get your point of view. but it seems you are blindly following every single word arenanet is telling you. ´this makes you look like a white knight.

There’s being a white knight and there’s ignoring fact. Which thing did I say wasn’t a fact?

Did Anet change the hero point total needed to unlocked elite specializations. Yes.
Did Anet change some of the hero points, turning them into either communes or veterans? Yes.
Did Anet post about fixing fractal rewards next month? Yes.
Did Anet release the raids and new commander UI yes.

And through all of it they’ve been talking to us. Now talking to us doesn’t mean they’re going to tell you what you want to hear, but saying they’re not talking to us is demonstrably false.

And using terms like White Knight to try to make what I say look untrue is pointless, because what I’ve said is factually true and can be checked.

I’m sorry you have some kind of problem with the game, but that doesn’t mean Anet isn’t talking to us. Saying they’re not is simply wrong.

It’s one thing to complain about something you like. It’s another thing to try to contradict fact. It’s a pointless exercise.

You are white knighting ANET. Those changes were minor and just bandaids on a very horrible expansion.

Actually HoT is more of a “contraction” for many players. WvW has been decimated, small guilds have been kicked to the curb, all their hard work taken away. Dungeons abandonded and huge grind / pay wall set up for everyone to “enjoy”.

HoT is garbage.

Absolutely your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Having a different opinion, however, doesn’t make me a white knight. I’ll always call out BS wherever I see it, not just here, but everywhere.

I didn’t address the OP’s complaints in total. I address something I consider to be a factual fallacy. And that’s ALL I did.

If you have something to say that addresses what I actually said, by all means, quote me. But if you’re just going to call me a white knight because I have a different opinion than you, well, I guess that pretty much says it all right there.

Have a great night.

Vayne, I have noticed that many people call you a white knight, on here and it’s pretty obvious that that is simply because you always seem to defend Anet, in your posts.

You may be calling out “factual fallacies”, as you see them, but these corrections always seem to be in Anet’s favour, for some reason.

If you criticised them, even 20% of the time, people probably wouldn’t call you that.

I’m, genuinely, glad for you if your opinion just happens to coincide with Anet’s, all the time, even when they make seemingly contradictory, or confusing, moves.

But, of course, that seemingly constant support will look unusual to people who see you post regularly, on here.

Most people come to the forum because they have an issue with one, or more, things in the game and if someone is always on here and always appearing to toe the company line, of course it will look odd and/or suspicious to most of them.

At the end of the day, I’m sure Anet can defend themselves perfectly well, if they ever feel the need.

It’s not your job to have to do it.

Or, I assume it’s not, anyway.

Oh dont kid your self mate ofcourse they would still call vayne a white knight since they would still only see the 80%

I don’t know?

No one’s ever called me that, on here and I sometimes defend their decisions.

I got called it on the EU WoW forum once, for trying to defend people with disabilities; but that was just pure ignorance, frankly.

It wasn’t even the correct usage of the term, as it implies you’re defending someone for ulterior motives and I have no idea what my ulterior motives would have, supposedly, been there?

But, on here? No.

I, basically, defended Anet’s decision re. dungeon reward nerfs (for various reasons) and no one called me it then, despite it being the perfect opportunity for them to do that.

But, if you check someone’s posting history, or you know them from previous forum visits and it’s just defend, defend, defend, with no (or very little) criticism, what are you going to think?

Vayne.8563:

Grim West.3194:

Vayne.8563:

mcwurth.2081:

Vayne.8563:

Anet has gone silent again? You must live in a bubble. Let’s talk about the “silence” of Anet for a second.

People complained about 400 points needed for elite specializations and Anet fixed that, by reducing it to 250, which very few people complain about.

People complained about high level mastery gating in the story and Anet removed some of it, so that people could get through the story with only a few basic masteries that are easy to level.

People complained about some hero points, and so Anet changed some of them to make them easier.

They came out with the commander UI, the new legendaries and the raids, just as they said they would and most people seem to be enjoying the raids, at least those that like that sort of thing.

People complained about Fractal rewards and Anet posted they’re working on them and that they’d be fixed/changed in December.

Anet hasn’t been silent in any way, shape or form and only someone deliberately ignoring what’s being said would say so.

Raiding is for serious players who invest time and energy into the game. The few people who think ascended gear is too hard or expensive to get that leave the game, they’ll be a tiny percent of the hard core community.

Actually the biggest “crisis” area of the game right now is WvW and Anet communicated about that too and said it’s simply too big a problem to have addressed yet, but they are working on it and will continue to work on it.

Anet hasn’t be silent and by saying so, you make me question everything else you’ve said.

white knight at its finest here. as you are in many other posts. sorry but arenanet is whispering only, which equals to many people as silence, we are working on it or changes will come next month (promises promises) are not really things that people want to hear. I think what people trying to say is that they want MORE communication from arenanet other then a simpe blogpost. where are all the devs that usually post on the forums? many are used that on a regular base devs reply to topics, SPECIALLY when there are so many “complaints” ( I rather say worries about the future of this game). I do get your point of view. but it seems you are blindly following every single word arenanet is telling you. ´this makes you look like a white knight.

There’s being a white knight and there’s ignoring fact. Which thing did I say wasn’t a fact?

Did Anet change the hero point total needed to unlocked elite specializations. Yes.
Did Anet change some of the hero points, turning them into either communes or veterans? Yes.
Did Anet post about fixing fractal rewards next month? Yes.
Did Anet release the raids and new commander UI yes.

And through all of it they’ve been talking to us. Now talking to us doesn’t mean they’re going to tell you what you want to hear, but saying they’re not talking to us is demonstrably false.

And using terms like White Knight to try to make what I say look untrue is pointless, because what I’ve said is factually true and can be checked.

I’m sorry you have some kind of problem with the game, but that doesn’t mean Anet isn’t talking to us. Saying they’re not is simply wrong.

It’s one thing to complain about something you like. It’s another thing to try to contradict fact. It’s a pointless exercise.

You are white knighting ANET. Those changes were minor and just bandaids on a very horrible expansion.

Actually HoT is more of a “contraction” for many players. WvW has been decimated, small guilds have been kicked to the curb, all their hard work taken away. Dungeons abandonded and huge grind / pay wall set up for everyone to “enjoy”.

HoT is garbage.

Absolutely your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Having a different opinion, however, doesn’t make me a white knight. I’ll always call out BS wherever I see it, not just here, but everywhere.

I didn’t address the OP’s complaints in total. I address something I consider to be a factual fallacy. And that’s ALL I did.

If you have something to say that addresses what I actually said, by all means, quote me. But if you’re just going to call me a white knight because I have a different opinion than you, well, I guess that pretty much says it all right there.

Have a great night.

Vayne, I have noticed that many people call you a white knight, on here and it’s pretty obvious that that is simply because you always seem to defend Anet, in your posts.

You may be calling out “factual fallacies”, as you see them, but these corrections always seem to be in Anet’s favour, for some reason.

If you criticised them, even 20% of the time, people probably wouldn’t call you that.

I’m, genuinely, glad for you if your opinion just happens to coincide with Anet’s, all the time, even when they make seemingly contradictory, or confusing, moves.

But, of course, that seemingly constant support will look unusual to people who see you post regularly, on here.

Most people come to the forum because they have an issue with one, or more, things in the game and if someone is always on here and always appearing to toe the company line, of course it will look odd and/or suspicious to most of them.

At the end of the day, I’m sure Anet can defend themselves perfectly well, if they ever feel the need.

It’s not your job to have to do it.

Or, I assume it’s not, anyway.

Pezz.4758:

Tigaseye.2047:

Kurogami.9210:

Let’s be honest: ANet included raids because players asked for them. They made HoT harder because players asked for challenging content. They added masteries and hero points because players complained that there wasn’t much left to do once you reach a certain point in the game. Of course ANet made mistakes in the way they implemented these things, but you can’t deny that GW2 becoming more and more like most other 08/15 MMOs is because many players want GW2 to be like other MMOs. This is what happens when developers listen too much to their players.

What I don’t understand is why these devs (not just Anet devs – pretty much ALL devs) STILL don’t seem to get that one type of person’s opinion isn’t, necessarily, as representative of the playbase, as a whole, as another’s.

Surely, they must have noticed, by now, that a certain type of player – let’s call them “hardcore” – tends to comment about games, on the internet, far more often than another type – let’s call them “casual” – ever does.

They MUST have noticed this, surely?!

…and yet, they seem to treat all comments as if they were created equal and are all equally representative of the playerbase make-up, as a whole.

Despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary, all around them…

I just don’t get it.

its not just Anet alot of companies do this
what i dont understand AT ALL is this is the same umbrella company as wildstar

wildstar, i game that MARKETED from day 1 as hardcore old school MMO
FAILED MISERABLY . And now GW2, arguably the most casual friendly, relaxed
no set goal chill out MMO is trying to adopt a more hardcore approach?
if a game strictly marketed as such failed, how did they think the homebase for all the people who left raid games like wow, wildstar FF would fair? i honestly cant even begin to fathom how this was thought to be a good idea.

I know – absolutely.

I was thinking about Wildstar as I wrote that, actually.

I never played it, but from what I understand, it is basically a combination of the least widely popular things from WoW and GW2.

A good combination of WoW and GW2 could (and should) be absolutely amazing.

…and yet, apparently, they managed to get it completely wrong.

Almost, literally, the opposite of what it should have been.

…and then they do the same here? O.o

Bizarre.

Kurogami.9210:

Let’s be honest: ANet included raids because players asked for them. They made HoT harder because players asked for challenging content. They added masteries and hero points because players complained that there wasn’t much left to do once you reach a certain point in the game. Of course ANet made mistakes in the way they implemented these things, but you can’t deny that GW2 becoming more and more like most other 08/15 MMOs is because many players want GW2 to be like other MMOs. This is what happens when developers listen too much to their players.

What I don’t understand is why these devs (not just Anet devs – pretty much ALL devs) STILL don’t seem to get that one type of person’s opinion isn’t, necessarily, as representative of the playbase, as a whole, as another’s.

Surely, they must have noticed, by now, that a certain type of player – let’s call them “hardcore” – tends to comment about games, on the internet, far more often than another type – let’s call them “casual” – ever does.

They MUST have noticed this, surely?!

…and yet, they seem to treat all comments as if they were created equal and are all equally representative of the playerbase make-up, as a whole.

Despite all the mounting evidence to the contrary, all around them…

I just don’t get it.

I don’t even, really, consider myself to be a true “casual” – I play far too much and even “real” raided, a bit, in WoW.

But, this is ridiculous.

Aguri.2896:

Your complaining about complaining and I’m complaining about your complaining about the complaining on the forums.

Nobody complain about my complaining.

To be fair, this isn’t really a complaint about complaining.

It is a request for Anet to fix the issues, so the complaining isn’t necessary anymore.

That’s a reasonable enough request.

Rococo.8347:

and that’s after a worldwide economic breakdown that almost killed the banking system.

That was suicide too, coincidentally enough.

Of course, they survived it totally unscathed, by falling into the well upholstered arms of the tax payer, but still.

Not sure the “tax payers” (i.e. the “little guy” players) of GW2 will be quite so forgiving.

Especially as there won’t be any governments, basically, forcing them to be.

WoW went kind of polarised, for WoD and they removed stuff from the majority of players.

Unless you were very casual, it was basically real raid, or go home.

That worked out really well for them…

Dejavu.2349:

Some people are just incapable of seeing things through a lens other than their own.

I know and most of those people seem to play MMOs and then wonder why other people don’t want to play with them. xD

Lord Drekar.4619:

I’m sorry, but an MMO is designed around large groups of people working together (that’s why it’s Massively Multiplayer, not Miniscule).

OK, I didn’t want to comment on this, as repeating myself endlessly is really not my style, but so many people seem to be labouring under this misapprehension, in this thread, that I guess I ought to…

The term “Massively Multiplayer Online” (MMO) game has nothing to do with how many people directly play with each other, or cooperate with each other, in the game.

The “Massively Multiplayer” part is just referring to the number of people who can coexist on the server (or servers) at the same time.

It implies nothing about whether they have to be actively playing together, or not.

They could all be playing together, or they could all be soloing, or anything in between.

It is “Massively Multiplayer”, either way.

Just because you have come to expect that we will all be playing together, or that is your personal preference, in MMOs, doesn’t mean that is what MMO refers to.

Yep.

It’s totally overwhelming and clearly only intended to cater to big guilds.

…and if you were just slowly building up a little bank guild, on your own, you can forget it.

…and I don’t just mean forget guild halls – that wouldn’t be so bad – I mean just forget levelling it altogether.

Terrible design.

…or incredibly cynical design.

Take your pick.

Boingo.5264:

milo.7198:

I’m in a small family guild. We aren’t mad about not getting a hall. That’s no big deal. But all the amenities we worked so hard for, harder than a bigger guild, like banners and weaponsmith, have been taken away. We would have been happy if Anet lets us keep what we unlocked and frozen all future progress until a guild hall was obtained.. It really stings because we got our weaponsmith and was in the progress of building it when HoT launched..
For us, its not that we don’t get a hall, its about all of our progress and work being erased..
It happened once before, when the Merit was introduced. Some things we had unlocked were taken away and we had to re-earn them. I believe it’s very wrong

Exactly!… having a guild hall, and all the NEW stuff that comes with it, isn’t really my small family guild’s issue either. We just want all of the OLD guild perks back that we earned over years of playing together. I do not begrudge larger guilds their due for being able to get a hall. If you can get a hall then great for you, and Dwayna bless you! But taking away pretty much everything from small guilds, leaving us with basically just a bank and chat channel, just stinks.

It does, indeed.

But, count yourself lucky you even have that…

I had just purchased a 10K upgrade, to then allow me to work towards purchasing the 3rd bank slot (and was well on my way) and then HoT wiped it all out.

Gold = time = real life money, in this type of game and you could even purchase guild influence with gold (which you might have purchased with real money), from the vendor.

So, stuff like this amounts to theft, when you think about it.

I’ve, intentionally, been giving them some time to put all this right, before getting really annoyed.

But, as far as I know, they have said nothing about it and they have definitely not done anything about it, yet.

This is not OK.

Yeah, ITA.

I have 3 ascended items on one character and only one on another and the one I wanted to raid on is the second one.

This is because I was disappointed with Ranger in WvW, so decided to prioritise Mesmer gear, instead, but I have no real interest in raiding on Mesmer.

Also, I’m not giving up WvW just to raid and I’m not paying to change the stats and replace upgrades every five minutes.

I’m also not into crafting, so even if I wanted to pour yet more money into this endless money pit, it would not make me happy to have to craft.

I tried the raid with my guild, but I can’t see it going anywhere much, especially with my gear.

Maybe they will reduce the difficulty, at some point?

Personally, I think they have done this all wrong.

I would have introduced an LFR style raid, rather than (or, as well as) a real raid.

I would have had it drop ascended stuff, occasionally and then maybe, also, had a harder version of the raid for guilds etc. to do, which dropped legendaries.

I think most of the people who play this game would have preferred that.

Maybe not most of the regular people on these forums…

But most of the more typical players.

There again, if I ran a game like this, it would be sub-based, whether some people liked that, or not.

I would make the best game it was humanly possible to make, but people would have to financially commit to it, at least to some extent, so its design didn’t become ruined by the need to make money through endless micro-transactions.

The problem is that this is just a reflection of the bigger problems in the world, as a whole.

It wouldn’t be necessary for the rich (or richer) to subsidise the poor, in games, if there wasn’t such an ever increasing gulf between the two IRL.

I’m not really sure that anything will ever be as good as it should be, while these issues remain largely unaddressed.

The very poorest in the world are getting less poor, but the number of people living below the breadline, in developed countries, is growing; while the rich just keep on getting richer.

Wahaha.7938:

I don’t think raids are intended to be content for new level 80 characters.

And hey I think it’s a pretty good thing because I get a challenge instead of breezing through it in 1 day.

I reached level 80 on my Ranger about 9 months ago and I play the game for several hours, pretty much every day.

Does that make it a “new level 80”?

Or, is the problem likely to be more that the game is far too over-reliant on everyone crafting?

Pretty sure all this works OK in WoW and more than one person could be using the guild bank, at the same time, in that, as well.

So, I don’t really consider that to be a valid excuse.