Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

Oh, OK.

Well, I think that would have been OK, if they had also added some new, basic armour, ingame.

As, I would imagine, people probably expected they would do, when they asked for that…

They probably thought that would be a given and so, felt free to just talk about where things should be placed.

Little did they know, that by asking for the armour skins to appear solely ingame, they were only going to be given that very ugly and/or over-the-top stuff and no new basics.

People can’t be blamed for what they ask for, when they’re not in possession of all the facts and possible implications of their requests.

So, ultimately, Anet are the ones responsible, as they made the final decision and then chose to implement it in the specific way they did.

Not to mention that, as the makers of the game, they are ultimately responsible for anything they choose to do, anyway.

However many people may have asked, specifically, for it, or not.

I dunno about other people, but I never expected new whites, blues, or greens. I figured new armor skins would likely be rares (like Lumi). I just sort of figured we’d get more than 3 of them. =/ Then again…we only got 3 legendaries with HoT launch too, so maybe not..

Well, I think it would be fair to expect them, as they were originally included in the base game and the word “expansion”, in this context, implies the addition of more of the same kind of things…

I think, pretty much anyone, who originally came from a game, like WoW, would expect something like basic armour to be provided as part of a new xpac, too.

I know WoW has a sub, but there is nothing stopping someone from playing for a month, or less and still collecting all of the greens/blues, in that time, for only the additional cost of one month’s sub.

So, I really don’t think adding some new basic armour into a game, that some people paid $100 for (not to mention any extra gemstore purchases they made), would have been too much to ask.

I don’t come from WoW. I come from GW1. shrug GW2 doen’t work quite the same way as either of them, so it’s hard to really compare and contrast in any meaningful way. (Granted, we still do it)

And yeah, I’m one of those that spent $100+

Yeah, I was just trying to give an idea of, what I feel is, the typical person’s expectations.

Quite a few people have come from WoW and I think even the reasonable ones would, almost certainly, be fairly disappointed with the (lack of) gear drops in HoT.

Even taking into account the lack of sub, here.

They just need to add a few more sets to the game. And maybe take a couple of the weapon sets from the BLTC and stick them in game as earnable rewards. Be it from achievements, collections, drops, et all.

Maybe a couple of earnable glider skins too.

Yes, I agree.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

Oh, OK.

Well, I think that would have been OK, if they had also added some new, basic armour, ingame.

As, I would imagine, people probably expected they would do, when they asked for that…

They probably thought that would be a given and so, felt free to just talk about where things should be placed.

Little did they know, that by asking for the armour skins to appear solely ingame, they were only going to be given that very ugly and/or over-the-top stuff and no new basics.

People can’t be blamed for what they ask for, when they’re not in possession of all the facts and possible implications of their requests.

So, ultimately, Anet are the ones responsible, as they made the final decision and then chose to implement it in the specific way they did.

Not to mention that, as the makers of the game, they are ultimately responsible for anything they choose to do, anyway.

However many people may have asked, specifically, for it, or not.

I dunno about other people, but I never expected new whites, blues, or greens. I figured new armor skins would likely be rares (like Lumi). I just sort of figured we’d get more than 3 of them. =/ Then again…we only got 3 legendaries with HoT launch too, so maybe not..

Well, I think it would be fair to expect them, as they were originally included in the base game and the word “expansion”, in this context, implies the addition of more of the same kind of things…

I think, pretty much anyone, who originally came from a game, like WoW, would expect something like basic armour to be provided as part of a new xpac, too.

I know WoW has a sub, but there is nothing stopping someone from playing for a month, or less and still collecting all of the greens/blues, in that time, for only the additional cost of one month’s sub.

So, I really don’t think adding some new basic armour into a game, that some people paid $100 for (not to mention any extra gemstore purchases they made), would have been too much to ask.

I don’t come from WoW. I come from GW1. shrug GW2 doen’t work quite the same way as either of them, so it’s hard to really compare and contrast in any meaningful way. (Granted, we still do it)

And yeah, I’m one of those that spent $100+

Yeah, I was just trying to give an idea of, what I feel is, the typical person’s expectations.

Quite a few people have come from WoW and I think even the reasonable ones would, almost certainly, be fairly disappointed with the (lack of) gear drops in HoT.

Even taking into account the lack of sub, here.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

Oh, OK.

Well, I think that would have been OK, if they had also added some new, basic armour, ingame.

As, I would imagine, people probably expected they would do, when they asked for that…

They probably thought that would be a given and so, felt free to just talk about where things should be placed.

Little did they know, that by asking for the armour skins to appear solely ingame, they were only going to be given that very ugly and/or over-the-top stuff and no new basics.

People can’t be blamed for what they ask for, when they’re not in possession of all the facts and possible implications of their requests.

So, ultimately, Anet are the ones responsible, as they made the final decision and then chose to implement it in the specific way they did.

Not to mention that, as the makers of the game, they are ultimately responsible for anything they choose to do, anyway.

However many people may have asked, specifically, for it, or not.

I dunno about other people, but I never expected new whites, blues, or greens. I figured new armor skins would likely be rares (like Lumi). I just sort of figured we’d get more than 3 of them. =/ Then again…we only got 3 legendaries with HoT launch too, so maybe not..

Well, I think it would be fair to expect them, as they were originally included in the base game and the word “expansion”, in this context, implies the addition of more of the same kind of things…

I think, pretty much anyone, who originally came from a game, like WoW, would expect something like new basic armour to be provided as part of a new xpac, too.

I know WoW has a sub, but there is nothing stopping someone from playing for a month, or less and still collecting all of the greens/blues, in that time, for only the additional cost of one month’s sub.

So, I really don’t think adding some new basic armour into a game, that some people paid $100 for (not to mention any extra gemstore purchases they made), would have been too much to ask.

Harper, I took the time, on here, to say what my specific definition of “elitist”, in this context, was.

It may not be your definition, but it is mine.

So, when I use that word, I expect you to understand what I mean by it.

It is not someone who just wants harder content for him (or her) self.

BTW, I’m not really a casual – so, they haven’t really chased me off (yet).

But, I can totally imagine what it would feel like to be one, ATM.

That wasn’t an “exaggeration”, it was an analogy.

You’ve heard of analogies, right?

An appreciation of basic morality and how getting that wrong can affect your business negatively, is very important, for any business.

Especially one that deals directly with the public and hosts a situation which allows their customers to interact directly with each other.

I, basically, agree.

The game has changed, quite dramatically, in nature.

Time will tell if that was the right decision, or not.

From past experience, I’m going to say not.

Iason Evan.3806:

Tigaseye.2047:

Iason Evan.3806:

Which hairstyles are better? The ones that came with HoT as part of the premium-priced x-pac or these new gem shop ones?

No new hairstyles came with HoT, specifically, as far as I’m aware.

They were all part of the base game, or “exclusive” ones, only available via hair/total makeover kits.

As far as which were better – these latest gemstore ones are, generally, not their best work, as far as I am concerned.

Most people, on here, have been asking for long, natural, loose styles.

Mostly wavy, or loosely curly.

But what we seem to have got (for human and Norn females, at least) are more plaits/braids, purely trend-driven styles and updos.

Human ponytail is quite nice, in theory, except it looks kind of fake, skinny and off-colour.

More like an inexpensive, ponytail extension, than a real ponytail.

My comment was more a dig at AreanNet for not including new hairstyles with their “premium priced expansion”. They really should have. Zero new faces or hairstyles. Very few earnable armor sets or weapons or backpieces or gliders. They could have thrown in 50 new dyes as well that only drop as unid-d dyes in HoT and so much more.

My point with my comment is that they really skimped on the padding with the expansion, but not on the price point.

Oh, I see.

Well, you may have a point there.

I didn’t really expect hairstyles with the xpac, TBH, as I feel the gemstore is more in lieu of a subscription and new hairstyles, to me, are a fairly luxury item.

So, I would expect a game, without a sub, to then try to charge for any extra ones.

Maybe if the game had been out for longer, I would expect some new ones to be added for “free” (or included in an xpac price), just because it would be ridiculous to expect people to use the same ones for over, say, 5 years.

Same probably goes for face types, IMO.

But basic gear, to me, is just something I would expect to be provided in-game, in pretty much any game and a new xpac should automatically equal new, basic, gear drops.

…and by “basic”, I just mean relatively clean-cut and simple; not made, intentionally, ugly in an attempt to make you reach for your credit card, yet again.

It’s not even as though transmution charges are free, over and above the 3 free ones per month; unless you do a lot of pvp, or map completion.

So, at least give people something to transmute with.

I agree about the dyes, as well.

To me, the dyes are some of the biggest rip-offs in the game.

You’re paying for a single colour and not even a colour you can make darker, or lighter; just one, single, tint/shade of a certain hue.

Then the different armour pieces and/or channels show all these colours differently – normally, lighter, or darker…

…and you can’t even lighten, or darken, the way the colour shows on different armour pieces/channels, yourself, to make it match.

You have to try to find another, darker or lighter, dye and just hope that the base hue and tone is sufficiently similar that it looks OK…

Far from ideal.

I wish they would just make more armour (even if they charge for some of it), rather than charging us for dyes/colours.

Or at least make those colours slightly more customisable.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Tigaseye.2047:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We asked for outfits. We got what we asked for. We asked that they stop putting armor in the gemstore, and make armor in-game rewards only. They granted that wish.

Who’s “we”?

The few people who bother to post regularly on these forums, or on reddit?

I didn’t ask for that and I certainly didn’t ask for hideously encrusted, or WoW-style over-the-top, vomit-inducing, “finery” to be the only new armour choices provided.

I like outfits, for levelling and for when I don’t have any transmutation charges left.

But, I also like mixing and matching simple armour pieces and any new opportunities to do that, successfully, have been totally curtailed, in HoT.

It was a general “we.” No, you might not have been among those that specifically asked for it, but many others did. I don’t hang out on reddit, so I can speak for that community; however, it was something people on here and in game seemed favorable to originally. It was one of the fer suggestions on how to deal with town clothes, given than so many people wanted town clothes wearable in combat.

I don’t particularly care for the new armors either, nor for the WoW style oversized shoulders and such. Some of their design choices do tend to give me pause these days.

I like to mix and match too. More armors are something I have been an advocate for, for a very, very long time. Feel free to check my post history to verify.

Oh, OK.

Well, I think that would have been OK, if they had also added some new, basic armour, ingame.

As, I would imagine, people probably expected they would do, when they asked for that…

They probably thought that would be a given and so, felt free to just talk about where things should be placed.

Little did they know, that by asking for the armour skins to appear solely ingame, they were only going to be given that very ugly and/or over-the-top stuff and no new basics.

People can’t be blamed for what they ask for, when they’re not in possession of all the facts and possible implications of their requests.

So, ultimately, Anet are the ones responsible, as they made the final decision and then chose to implement it in the specific way they did.

Not to mention that, as the makers of the game, they are ultimately responsible for anything they choose to do, anyway.

However many people may have asked, specifically, for it, or not.

Iason Evan.3806:

Which hairstyles are better? The ones that came with HoT as part of the premium-priced x-pac or these new gem shop ones?

No new hairstyles came with HoT, specifically, as far as I’m aware.

They were all part of the base game, or “exclusive” ones, only available via hair/total makeover kits.

As far as which were better – these latest gemstore ones are, generally, not their best work, as far as I am concerned.

Most people, on here, have been asking for long, natural, loose styles.

Mostly wavy, or loosely curly.

But what we seem to have got (for human and Norn females, at least) are more plaits/braids, purely trend-driven styles and updos.

Human ponytail is quite nice, in theory, except it looks kind of fake, skinny and off-colour.

More like an inexpensive, ponytail extension, than a real ponytail.

Rin.1046:

new weapons and armour

Very little.

Where are the new whites, greens and/or blues?

I often tend to prefer the simpler, plainer stuff, when it comes to armour and there’s pretty much nothing new, of that kind, in HoT.

As a Ranger, I’m still stuck in Sneakthief, or my gemstore skins/outfits.

As a Mes, I’m stuck in my gemstore skins.

I have, pretty heavily, supported the gemstore and the real money-to-gold (via gems) market, in the around 11 months since I started playing.

But I do feel hard done by, when it comes to plain, simple, ingame armour choices.

a new borderlands

Gorgeous map, but unfortunately pretty much empty.

Hard to even find a tag there, most of the time.

guild hall stuff

That was like paying for my own, in-game, destruction.

My little bank guild was totally stomped on and made totally irrelevant and the other (bigger) guild I’m in was forced to, constantly, ask people to donate mats.

Nothing against them doing that (they were just doing what the game now makes them do), but why would I want to donate mats to a system that caused my own little guild’s progress to be utterly destroyed?

Answer: I wouldn’t.

Also, they seem to have reduced the amount of gold you can make, ingame; either directly, or via things they have done to reduce the market value of certain things you receive.

So, accruing gold ingame is definitely, noticeably, slower.

I agree with you that they need to make money somehow.

As I say, I would have preferred a sub, but whatever.

I also agree that, if you manage to make gold ingame, you can then spend that in the gemstore, or on the TP, for your rewards and that is (at least somewhat) OK, in theory, as it amounts to the same thing, in the end…

However, I just think you catch more flies with honey, than you do vinegar.

…and providing no new basic skins in-game (or even any new skins, as opposed to outfits, in the gemstore!) and stomping on small guilds, just reeks of vinegar, to me.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

We asked for outfits. We got what we asked for. We asked that they stop putting armor in the gemstore, and make armor in-game rewards only. They granted that wish.

Who’s “we”?

The few people who bother to post regularly on these forums, or on reddit?

I didn’t ask for that and I certainly didn’t ask for hideously encrusted, or WoW-style over-the-top, vomit-inducing, “finery” to be the only new armour choices provided.

I like outfits, for levelling and for when I don’t have any transmutation charges left.

But, I also like mixing and matching simple armour pieces and any new opportunities to do that, successfully, have been totally curtailed, in HoT.

kuritsutian.2987:

Capitalism vs Communism 101

Nope.

Capitalism would be making the most money, you possibly can, from a product.

What, at least certain parts of, the games industry is managing to do, ATM, is pretty much the opposite of capitalism.

As they are making games for the (very often poor IRL) minority and expecting them to be funded by the (very often casual) majority.

That’s not capitalism, that’s communism, or at the very least socialism.

Or, at least it would be, if everyone needed to play games to survive and/or thrive.

If that was the case, it would be a good thing (IMO) if poorer players were still able to play, via the financial contributions of the less poor ones.

But, everyone does not need to play games – games are just a luxury – so, unless you provide something for everyone, it’s basically insanity.

I’m starting to think that all the elitist, forum posters have now become the games devs.

So, when I wonder why games devs are now colluding with, what should be considered the enemies of gaming and making good money from gaming, I’m on completely the wrong track…

As the “enemy” is now, quite possibly, within the walls.

So, it is less collusion and more sabotage.

BTW, Harper, I didn’t say you, specifically, were an elitist, who looks down on other people (i.e. casual players) and wants those people to have nothing.

You have once again, however, confirmed that you are that definition of one, by choosing to answer those accusations on a personal level.

No one is saying there shouldn’t, also, be some challenging content in games – I like some challenging content, from time to time, myself.

But, there is a huge difference between adding some challenging content and some less challenging content (or less challenging versions of the challenging content), within the same xpac and just going full-on hardcore, for everything.

To the detriment of the less hardcore players and therefore, by default, to the game as a whole.

There are ways to cater to both types of player – as long as you don’t ever cater to the demands of outrageously selfish people, who want everything their own way.

It’s a bit like dealing with children, frankly.

You wouldn’t give everything to one child and nothing to the others, just because the first child said he couldn’t be happy if the other children got anything at all.

Even if he was doing the best at school…

…and you certainly wouldn’t chase your other kids off, just because he said he didn’t even wish to tolerate their presence.

It is (or should be) just a case of common sense, fairness and morality and yet, the gaming industry are acting like it’s an unsolvable conundrum, only somewhat solvable by selling a big chunk of their playerbase down the river, at every turn.

Unfortunately, I think that says quite a lot about the people making games; that they, apparently, can’t cope with these, very simple, moral questions, at all.

Either that, or they simply don’t care…

Look, it’s no (or very little) skin off my nose what Anet have decided to do to their game and their core players, in this xpac.

I’m mainly an observer, at this point, as I tend to bowl around EotM (which hasn’t changed that much) and occasionally, mess around on a HoT map.

However, I do find it fascinating how much of this part of the games industry has seemingly gone into full-blown, self destruct mode, ATM.

WoW messed with the middle of the road (i.e. the semi-casual to semi-hardcore) type players in WoD and lost half their player base.

That’s WoW, for goodness sake…

Wildstar was a flop, from what I keep being told and I’m not in the least surprised…

From what I understand, it took the least universally popular things from Gw2 and WoW and tried to make a universally popular game out of them.

Universally is the key word, here and it’s the word the devs should really try to focus on, if they want to maintain the “capitalism”.

Daddicus.6128:

It’s kind of expected, if you think about it. ANet chose to cater to the hard-core elitist crowd, and they were already the quickest on the draw with insults. They’ve been emboldened because ANet’s moves have validated that they are important.

Previously, we would just treat them as we would any other bully: ignore them (both figuratively and literally) until they go away. But, with HoT, that’s no longer possible. The action is intense and only barely able to be played solo. Long-term progress is nearly impossible as a solo or casually.

ANet’s actions brought out the worst in the elitists. The problem is that they now actually believe they are entitled to their hostility against casual players. Just read the forums for an hour and you’ll see it all over the place. Any time you see the words “learn to play” or “L2P”, it’s a cinch you’ve uncovered one of them. Or, “it’s not that hard. I did it …”.

Interestingly, the actions of many casual players have indirectly contributed to this phenomenon. Many casuals have left the game, leaving fewer people willing to challenge this perceived “right” to be obnoxious. Thus, like the schoolyard bullies who shrink from real confrontation, they are emboldened by the drop in the number of people willing to challenge them.

But, I can’t really fault the casuals for leaving. Intentional or not, the game is moving to marginalize casual players, and that’s a 180 from what it used to be. It’s just not the same game any more. By definition, the casuals have other things they can be doing. GW2 is just pushing them to explore other options for their entertainment.

Can it be fixed? Only by a radical shift back to the games roots. Sadly, two things argue mightily that that will not happen:

First, fewer casuals means fewer people asking for changes back to the good old days.

Second, ANet doesn’t seem to be listening even a little bit.

I’m trying to stick it out. But, I’m having a more difficult time every day coming back to the game, and as time is passing, I’m spending less and less time playing than I used to. And I used to be one of the game’s and ANet’s biggest supporters.

This.

There was definitely already elitism, in the game (especially in dungeon paths), but it always seemed kind of out-of-place.

Now, the elitists have had their dodgy positions on things confirmed and reinforced by the devs, so there will be no stopping them.

By elitists, I don’t mean just anyone who likes a bit of a challenge.

I, specifically, mean people who look down upon others and like the idea of people, who they view as less worthy, getting nothing in the game.

While they get everything.

By siding, almost entirely, with people like that, this xpac, Anet have made an interesting choice, to say the least.

When you dance with the devil, expect to get burned.

AzureDream.4819:

A few days ago I was peacefully crabbing some Auric Basin, and there was some enraged player, who was just straight up hard-blaming Anet about some minor pvp stuff (like some skill is damaging more than intended, or whatever). Why cant people go and complain on forum, or in pvp lobby? Why some pvp talk is happening in pve maps? And that person just wont shut up.

Complaining about the game isn’t toxicity.

Toxicity is being toxic to, or about, other people.

You are not the game, so someone complaining about it really shouldn’t bother you, frankly.

Unless they’re threatening to kill a specific dev, or something…

BTW, re. the whole, tired “Nothing has been taken away.” meme:

This is the HoT sub-forum.

When people talk about things having changed, they are talking about the original GW2 casual style of gameplay having been ditched in the HoT xpac content, specifically (i.e .the subject this sub-forum deals with).

Of course the core game is still there, but the core game is not HoT and no one would, knowingly, pay anything up to $100 to continue to play 3 year old content that they can continue to play for free.

This is not something that should have to be explained (yet again), frankly.

Certain people should stop being so blatantly (and repeatedly) disingenuous.

Not that I hold out much hope that that will, ever, happen…

Not while they imagine it suits their cause to continue to be so.

luzt.7692:

In a sense it does, instead of releasing it in the Gem store, they could make it obtainable by just playing the game.

Probably not for long, unless people were prepared to pay at least a smallish sub.

I would have preferred that, personally.

However, at this point, I would feel very double-dipped on if they just added one, without taking into account what people had already paid…

But, in general, sub game = better game, as they obviously then don’t have to be so tight with ingame stuff/gold.

Numbers.3241:

I would guess gem store purchases pay for gem store content and then some. Removing it would not give you gem store content for free, it would mean you wouldn’t get gem store content at all, and probably would miss out on some of the live content.

No subscription means that there’s no ongoing stream of income to fund the game except gem store. Working in the industry, $40 every 3 years is a lot less than it takes to pay for servers and development for a game like this.

I suspect the people who are buying from the gem store are paying for 9 months out of every 12 you play.

Yep.

Yep, same here.

Werdx.2059:

Anyone notice how even with TP down,you can still buy gems for money?

As long as irl money for gems work,its all good…

If situation was reversed ($$ for gems)down,they would fix it instantly.That says enough about their care for people who gave them money.

Well, some people might be looking for things to buy on the TP, which they will then purchase the gold for (via gems), with real money.

So, even if you assume Anet are that mercenary, it wouldn’t make much sense for them to not fix it, so people can’t see the things available to buy, would it?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s working fine for me. You could try:

• Clearing out your GW2 cache
• Repairing the client.

Instructions for both appear in the troubleshooting guide under the Account & Tech support forum (for the cache, you navigate to local and delete the folders prepending with “gw2cache” and for repair, you create a shortcut to the game and use -repair as an argument).

Both those have resolved display issues with the TP for a lot of folks.

(The TP is basically just a webpage, using an in-game browser — like any browser, sometimes the cache gets corrupted and needs to be purged.)

---

FYI if you are using windows X, I have seen some issues around the TP due to problems with windows misunderstanding whether to use the default browser when GW2 requests data via the TP/in-game browser. Some people fixed this by changing their default browser (and unfortunately, I believe you need to change the settings in two places for WinX).

Pretty sure this is a more general problem.

I’ve used Windows 10 for months now and never had any significant problems with the TP before.

I wouldn’t suggest people waste their time and energy messing around with all that, until they find out, for definite, that it’s not an issue at Anet’s end (which I’m pretty sure it is).

Quite honestly, I would rather just live without the TP search function, than go through all that hassle just for a game, anyway.

Pets and bows.

I love (or certainly care about) all animals, IRL and my mum used to do archery, when I was a kid (and was pretty good at it!).

So, it’s nice to follow in her footsteps, in that way, even if it’s only in a game.

Originally, I chose Hunter, in WoW, pretty much totally for the pets.

The bow thing then kind of grew on me, a little later on.

Any chance we could be given the opportunity to tame these, at some point, seeing as the models and colourways are already in the game?

I think my Norn Ranger, coming from a very cold climate herself, would probably be more of an Alpine Stalker type of person, than a regular Tiger type of person and the Green Moas are, quite possibly, the nicest colourway of the six.

So, every time someone makes a different pet active, they have to physically rename it, yet again?

I do try to, actually, but if you had ever played a Ranger yourself (and weren’t just here to obviously troll, lol) you would know it’s virtually impossible to do, in an even remotely busy situation.

Real pets don’t need their name tags re-engraved every time you walk through the front door to meet them again and you can’t prove that we’re not calling them, verbally, by their (previously) given names, from behind the keyboard.

…and in fact, some of us are.

So your point about being deserving “pet owners”, even if you mean it in an analogous way with real life pet ownership, is totally moot.

If you really have an issue with their names disappearing, which I doubt, take it up with Anet.

I want my pet’s given name tag to remain, too.

pdavis.8031:

I get that you are frustrated with the inability to be able to do much with Guild Halls being of a small guild. However, reading through this post, it seems that you are most upset by the fact that some minor things (i.e. banners) were removed, and still more is locked behind either guild levels and/or a massive mat collection.

You, and others who have posted either in here or other similar threads, seem to be under the impression that the devs just came up with how Guild Halls function, the effort and time needed, and so on, simply because they were having a bad hair day, it was Tuesday in Seattle, or they just don’t care/out of touch.

Fortunately this isn’t the case. Many of the functionality and features we see in guild halls today are specifically what players wanted. They said they wanted upgrades to take time and effort. They wanted them to be gated. They wanted a place to choose where they can easily and instantly travel to from anywhere in the game. They even made many suggestions about using mats to upgrade, and that the amounts and costs should be a deterrent to super guilds from just being able to buy their way to the top.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Guild-Halls/first

If you want to be angry at anybody. Be angry at them. Just glancing over the thread, you can see that many of the things suggested were in fact implemented. The devs just gave the players what they asked for. But it turns out the players in general don’t know what they heck they want.

No, people know what THEY want.

Problem is, a minority of them, continually, try to impose what they alone want, onto the majority and games companies these days seem to just roll over immediately and, passively, oblige.

People ask for this stuff, either because they don’t fully comprehend the unintended consequences of their requests; or because (even more alarmingly) they actually like the idea of removing basic stuff from other people.

In this case, stuff that people have already worked for and acquired.

It is still the games company’s fault, because it is their job to sort the wheat from the chaff, to work out what is a reasonable (and not totally selfish) request and to foresee any unintended consequences.

If they can’t, or won’t, do that, anymore, they are failing us all, really badly and do not deserve our custom.

Astralporing.1957:

Yes, the numbers offer an advantage on its own. No more advantages are needed. Enforcing artificial ones just because devs can’t wrap their minds about the fact that small guilds exist too is a bad design.

So much in this game is less than optimally designed and/or is totally tone deaf.

There, I’ve said it.

I don’t know if the main issue is the devs, or the management (per the glassdoor reviews), or too much listening to the wrong kind of players (definitely happening), or just the current state of the industry/gamemode, in general?

After all, WoW has gone very downhill, recently, too…

But, something is definitely rotten in the state of Denmark.

Kerin.9125:

And my comment about the mega-server tech answered you, your “in game observation” is basless since you can never have any idea how many exist apart from those in your particular map.

Well no, you’d know if your friends and acquaintances were leaving, for example, wouldn’t you?

…and if enough of them left, it would hardly be a massive leap of logic to assume that that was probably fairly typical.

Obviously, it could be a statistical blip, but that is fairly unlikely.

The whole mega server technology thing might cover random strangers leaving; but it, obviously, wouldn’t stop you noticing the people on your friends list no longer logging on.

Kulvar.1239:

One man guilds are not guilds.

Then they shouldn’t have let me make a guild, at all.

Nothing told me, when I made my guild pre-HoT, that “one man guilds are not guilds”.

So, them then switching on people like me is simply not fair.

Whatever your, totally personal, opinions on small guilds may be…

Even now, you can make a guild on your own – you just can’t advance it, in any way.

If they shared your view, surely they would set a minimum number of founding members and/or add a warning that any progression would require a minimum number of players?

They haven’t done either.

Not that I think that would make people feel any better – but, it would confirm that they agreed with people like you.

Then people could make their decisions re. whether playing a game, that agreed with people like you, was their cup of tea.

Nails in coffins, Anet, nails in coffins…

kuritsutian.2987:

It is punitive but in my opinion it is how it should be.

Unbelievable.

I could say more, to this, but I would probably be banned.

Ashen.2907:

Tigaseye.2047:

Where the needs of the lower and middle-incomed are placed higher, compared with a totally (or unfettered) capitalist country, which might place their needs last, or not at all.

I am not aware of any nation that practices unfettered capitalism.

Well no, exactly.

That’s why I said “might”.

Even the most currently right wing, capitalist countries have higher taxation (e.g. via income tax and capital gains tax) on the rich and a certain amount of help for the poor.

Even though it may be woefully inadequate.

Yes, all too often the accountants of the rich find loopholes; but the higher tax brackets still exist.

Which makes this arbitrary labelling of anyone, who believes that the game should be made more representative of real life, in that way, even more ridiculous.

As they, apparently, want games to be more right wing than pretty much any real life situation, for a very long time.

Yes, some of the people commenting in favour of the OP may be socialists, or communists, or whatever; but it is not a given that they are.

So, unless they have specifically said they are something, themselves – in which case that specific term should be both understood and adhered to respectfully – it needs to stop.

At no time should these terms be randomly hurled around as, supposedly, interchangeable insults.

Just because Fox “News” do it, doesn’t mean you guys should too…

Fox News don’t even admit they’re not a proper news channel; but, rather, just an unending series of right wing, propagandist, rants.

Even though it’s painfully obvious, to anyone outside the US, with even half a brain, that that is exactly what they are.

So, they are the last people anyone should be learning political/economic terms (let alone [n]etiquette) from.

Gynok.1756:

The worst system ever is one that gives same gold ratio per hour no matter what you do.

Why?

So people are forced to do things they don’t like, or languish forever in poverty, or leave the game?

Half the time there is no commander, in EotM/WvW, because the tag costs 300g, which just feels like an utter insult, to the average WvWer.

Wanze.8410:

Tigaseye.2047:

Wanze.8410:

Tigaseye.2047:

^ I’m not getting into all this with you, here (or anywhere, ATM).

I’ve had too many discussions about all this, already, elsewhere and this is, after all, a topic about in-game economy on a games forum.

I’d be interested to see who, here, has actually said they “hate” capitalism?

Seems to me, that no one has said that and that all the name-calling, of that nature, has come entirely from the other side.

Also, to accuse anyone, who can see the flaws in unfettered capitalism, of being ignorant, or a terrorist, is incredibly offensive.

But, I assume that was intended.

Also guys, please try to remember that you are not your economic system.

We are all human beings, first and foremost.

Economic systems are supposed to work for us; not the other way around.

nobody called anybody a terrorist, you were the first one to use that term

You’re right, he didn’t say terrorist, he said potential “dictator” and/or someone who wants to conduct “mass genocide”, which is also an incredibly ignorant, offensive and utterly inaccurate thing to say.

As you well know.

In fact, it’s even worse than accusing someone of being a terrorist.

If you’re going to correct someone, at least be gracious enough to add an admission that the thing they got slightly wrong, was less bad than the thing that was actually said…

mtpelion.4562:

2. People who understand economics, know that capitalism is the best system we’ve ever created, but rail against it in order to draw in support from the people in group 1 so that they can engage in mass genocide or set themselves up as a dictator once the existing government is overthrown by the angry mob they’ve whipped up into a frenzy with their dangerous rhetoric.

Quite honestly, I was so utterly shocked and appalled by reading this, here, that I used the wrong word.

This is a games forum.

Hateful, prejudiced posts like this have no place here (or anywhere).

I agree with you that the OP was out of line, thats why i reported it.
I just replied to your post because it aggrevated the issue and threw the next generalisation around.
I think terrorism these days is mostly motivated by political and religious views and not capitalistic ones.
Most terror cells have a very sophisticated and capitalistic way of raising funds these days.

OK, well thank you, then, Wanze.

…and I agree, they have.

CETheLucid.3964:

Essence Snow.3194:

Capitalism is not the best system we’ve ever created. The best system we’ve had in modern society is a mixture.

… Based more on a free market capitalist system than anything else. The dogma in this thread as a whole is astounding.

“I came from an ex-communist country man, let me tell you: It sucked. Capitialism is the better system.”

“I’m from a capitalist country and the old system that you suffered under was better because I am right and you are wrong! I clearly know what I am talking about!”

Gotta love that kind of response. It’s that kind of crap you can’t make up.

“Oh? Someone who’s experienced the reality of my misguided ideals and is speaking out against it? Better dismiss them and assure everyone I’m right.”

“After all, that dictator guy was just doing it wrong.”

I know you’re not replying directly to me, but just for the record, I did not say that.

Or even imply it.

Firstly, socialism and communism are not the same thing, at all.

I live in Western Europe and many countries here have socialist parties in power, on and off, but they are still, essentially, capitalist countries.

Just “capitalism lite”, if you like.

Where the needs of the lower and middle-incomed are placed higher, compared with a totally (or unfettered) capitalist country, which might place their needs last, or not at all.

These people would cringe to see that people, many of whom claim to understand economics (no less!) just shamelessly lump both systems together.

I realise some of you guys seem to use the terms interchangeably (I’ve seen it on US TV, like Fox News, a lot), but it is utterly incorrect.

I’m not, necessarily, blaming you – your media is failing you.

Or, even worse, possibly trying to indoctrinate you, who knows?

But, either way, it is incorrect and that matters.

Secondly, what took place in Eastern block countries and places like China wasn’t really communism.

They may have called it that, but I could call a fish a “tree”, if I wanted to; it wouldn’t make it true.

So, anyone saying that what he experienced under “communism” was better, would have to like the (incorrect) interpretation of “communism” that took place, for some unknown reason.

That hypothetical person, most definitely, isn’t me, BTW.

Just for the record.

…and I never said it was (and neither did anyone else, as far as I’m aware).

This entire thread is riddled with a mish-mash of ignorance, insults and assumptions.

It’s embarrassing to witness and even worse, gives people with existing prejudices, about the political and economic ignorance of people, from certain capitalist countries, even more ammunition.

As if they needed it…

Please guys, I beg you, do some proper research before commenting further.

Wanze.8410:

Tigaseye.2047:

^ I’m not getting into all this with you, here (or anywhere, ATM).

I’ve had too many discussions about all this, already, elsewhere and this is, after all, a topic about in-game economy on a games forum.

I’d be interested to see who, here, has actually said they “hate” capitalism?

Seems to me, that no one has said that and that all the name-calling, of that nature, has come entirely from the other side.

Also, to accuse anyone, who can see the flaws in unfettered capitalism, of being ignorant, or a terrorist, is incredibly offensive.

But, I assume that was intended.

Also guys, please try to remember that you are not your economic system.

We are all human beings, first and foremost.

Economic systems are supposed to work for us; not the other way around.

nobody called anybody a terrorist, you were the first one to use that term

You’re right, he didn’t say terrorist, he said potential “dictator” and/or someone who wants to conduct “mass genocide”, which is also an incredibly ignorant, offensive and utterly inaccurate thing to say.

As you well know.

In fact, it’s even worse than accusing someone of being a terrorist.

If you’re going to correct someone, at least be gracious enough to add an admission that the thing they got slightly wrong, was less bad than the thing that was actually said…

mtpelion.4562:

2. People who understand economics, know that capitalism is the best system we’ve ever created, but rail against it in order to draw in support from the people in group 1 so that they can engage in mass genocide or set themselves up as a dictator once the existing government is overthrown by the angry mob they’ve whipped up into a frenzy with their dangerous rhetoric.

Quite honestly, I was so utterly shocked and appalled by reading this, here, that I used the wrong word.

This is a games forum.

Hateful, prejudiced posts like this have no place here (or anywhere).

Essence Snow.3194:

Socialism fails mostly due to those in power abusing the system for personal gain…ie see russia.

Technically, they called that communism (even though it, really, wasn’t).

Socialism is something different again – they’re not interchangeable terms.

But, in general, I agree with you.

^ I’m not getting into all this with you, here (or anywhere, ATM).

I’ve had too many discussions about all this, already, elsewhere and this is, after all, a topic about in-game economy on a games forum.

I’d be interested to see who, here, has actually said they “hate” capitalism?

Seems to me, that no one has said that and that all the name-calling, of that nature, has come entirely from the other side.

Also, to accuse anyone, who can see the flaws in unfettered capitalism, of being ignorant, or a terrorist, is incredibly offensive.

But, I assume that was intended.

Also guys, please try to remember that you are not your economic system.

We are all human beings, first and foremost.

Economic systems are supposed to work for us; not the other way around.

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

As opposed to the, largely mistaken, common belief (especially in very capitalistic countries, like the US) that witnessing other people’s success/wealth/fortune motivates people to work harder.

I would like to know what you are basing this on.
As far as I know that statement is true – seeing others being better off does motivate people to move.

I come from an ex-communist Eastern European country – I know first hand how damaging the fact that people’s wealth was “hard capped” turned out to be.

In my country everyone’s success meant more or less the same – you could not own more than one house, one car, you had money but couldn’t buy more or significantly different items.

It was a case of “if everyone is rich nobody is” – and that was the main reason nobody really tried for anything. Everybody worked but everything about the way things moved was kitten – because no matter how hard ( or little) you worked at the end of the day you couldn’t really get more or better stuff in order to significantly improve your life or that of your family.

So you know what people did? They decided to put in just enough effort to not get fired or in trouble with the authorities, their employers and the state and then basically called it a day.

My country has been recovering from this prevalent situation that was the social norm for nearly 50 years – and it is still encountered today is many state-owned or public office jobs.

Before you come to these forums imparting knowledge – make sure you actually know what you are talking about.

I know what I’m talking about.

I have lived in a (very well established), capitalist country all my life.

As did my parents and the many, many, generations before them.

Some of those generations were fortunate and did very well for themselves.

I’m, obviously, mainly referring to the study mentioned in the OP, as that is the topic of the thread; but, there have been many similar studies, including one mentioned in New Scientist, a few years ago, that found that “Trickle Down” economics doesn’t work.

In fact, good, stable economies are built on Trickle Up.

As poorer and lower middle incomed people have to spend a far larger proportion of their money, leading to it feeding back into the economy and strengthening it.

I would suggest you do some Googling – there’s a lot out there.

I realise you’re still in the honeymoon period with unfettered capitalism.

But, please forgive some of us for being a little more jaded and knowing, as the people in the (far) longer term relationship with it.

Harper.4173:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Tigaseye.2047:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

With peak performance only being about 10% difference between exotic and ascended, most players are already mechanically “best off”.

It is probably worth noting, here, that “real” raiders, in WoW, most of whom min/max obsessively, would laugh at the idea of 10% being considered very little difference.

I’m not really sure why people have decided 10% doesn’t matter, here?

In one way it’s good, I suppose, as it should be about talent, not gear…

…but, quite frankly, it also reeks heavily of people being falsely and continuously reassured, in an attempt to keep the maximum number of players happy.

Or not so unhappy.

I never said it was “very little difference”. I don’t care what “real” raiders in WoW think, since what a “real” raider is defined as is an arbitrary set that exists solely to justify your claims. This isn’t WoW. I never said 10% didn’t matter, either. Don’t put words in my mouth.

Personally I think of Runescape as a frame of reference. In Runescape, every successive tier of equipment is 10%-20% stronger than the last, and an order of magnitude more expensive. First you spend a few thousand, then you spend a few million, then you spend tens of millions, then you spend hundreds of millions. It gets out of hand quite quickly, and a lower tier has little to no chance against anything not immediately in succession. It would be like if after ascended were legendary (10% over ascended), and then after legendary there was epic (10% over legendary), and epic cost 30k gold per piece.

GW2 is not as bad. Yes, the difference between exotic and ascended is nearly an order of magnitude in cost, but a good portion of it is superfluous. The trinkets are bought with a daily reward currency distributed equally among all players, or with other currencies earned independent of gold. The armor contributes the most minuscule of differences, of so the only thing you need to "buy’ are the weapons. And the weapons themselves are a 6% difference.

The reason why 10% is on the threshold of “not too bad” is because it is within the margins of the random number generator. Weapon attack strength varies by a total of 10% per skill use, so even with an ascended weapon there is no guarantee that in any particular fight your opponent won’t luck out and either do high damage, or you do low damage. It is only after a long series of trials that the obvious pattern emerges. Likewise, this is only true for direct damage. The total advantage granted by ascended for condition damage is much smaller (weapon attack strength doesn’t matter, so around 5%). There is a large overlap in performance between these two sets, so much that there is kitten chance that exotic will be in the performance range of ascended.

Another thing to note is that GW2’s mechanics are heavily skill-based – meaning you can make up for the 10% less powerful gear through skill in most situations.

Improving your rotations, dodges, timing, positioning can vastly improve your overall performance – far more than your gear can.

If this was a more static game – I would agree 10% could be bigger – but in this case we have to look at the context. There is plenty of room to improve as a player before you can really say that it was the 10% lower stats on your gear that made you fail.

DnT proved to us how even the hardest content – Raids – can be easily cleared with time to spare if you know what you are doing. I’m sure they could have cleared it in exotic gear as well.

The only thing left is for people to step up their game.

WoW is skill-based, too.

A good rotation is vital.

But, 10% is 10%.

If you have already maximised your potential DPS (or HPS, or whatever), as far as possible in terms of how you play, that extra 10% from gear matters.

Whichever game you’re talking about.

..and if you haven’t maximised it yet, in terms of how you play, that 10% could make all the difference.

Jana.6831:

No, I really wasn’t able to and since WoW is the worst game possible in my opinion from a to z, I brought it up as an example to show you how a TP “controlled by the rich” really looks like.
I was level 80 then and was thinking about getting the expansion or leaving the game – I left as I had no chance to get a level appropriate weapon. That much to discouraging players.
I guess the rest of what you wrote is because of your confusion as to why I brought WoW up – I hope I explained why I did.

Just to clarify, this was level 80 gear, when level 80 was the cap and the xpac you were considering buying was Cata?

The thing is, that things have changed a lot, since then.

…and then, have changed back.

They changed for the best in late Cata and MoP xpacs (e.g. challenging LFR, with good loot) and then they changed, again, for the worst, in WoD (e.g. faceroll LFR with, largely, pointless loot).

Whereas, I would have recommended you try WoW, again, in late Cata/MoP, had you being saying this then; I couldn’t recommend you try it again, now.

Who knows what Legion will be like?

Unfortunately, I don’t trust Blizzard to do the right thing, anymore.

They seem to just count comments and ignore the type of people posting them and the true feelings of most of their (mostly silent, let’s face it) players.

If they continue to go from their official forums, which you can only post on if you’re still subbed, or from things like the ranting and hostile YouTube comments, which are often posted by obviously crazy people*, they’re utter fools.

Even if those people were representative, which they’re not, it amounts to professional suicide for a company to go with unreasonable, irrational, totally selfish points of view.

No serious company should ever risk that, especially as it is not something you can (easily) recover from.

Whereas, you can, as a company, reasonably expect irrational, selfish, people to have to conform to your rational, selfless, product; you simply cannot expect the same, the other way around.

*Even in their photo avatars they, very often, look like totally deranged, wide-eyed lunatics, frankly.

It’s bad enough that people are forced to play with these types of people, at all, without the game being entirely built around them.

I still think they would make more money, overall, from allowing the dying of weapons and backpacks.

It’s not even as though they keep releasing recolours of weapons, to be fair to them.

They only seem to do that with a few of the backpacks (like the black/white wings).

So, it’s not even like they would, generally, lose lots of multiple sales of recoloured stuff by doing this.

I guess they might make people buy more different weaps, purely on the basis of their set colours?

But, I still think that would probably be outweighed by a greater number of sales of dyeable weaps, for their unique designs.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Weapons and back items should be dyeable.

It’ll be an increase in data stored in the items, and sent to players, but what we are losing is too much in comparison.

Take back items and weapons matching the same theme, like the Daydreamer’s.

You can dye the outfit. But what’s the point? You can’t dye the wings or the weapons. So if you dye the outfit, it’ll no longer match them. Why would you try and get the weapons and backs if you can’t make them match your dyed outfit?

To be fair, you can dye it slightly different colours, that still go (or even, rather bizarrely, go slightly better) with the weapons/backpack.

…and of course, you might want to use it with other weaps and/or backpacks.

But, I certainly agree with you, in general.

Jana.6831:

Tigaseye.2047:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

With peak performance only being about 10% difference between exotic and ascended, most players are already mechanically “best off”.

It is probably worth noting, here, that “real” raiders, in WoW, most of whom min/max obsessively, would laugh at the idea of 10% being considered very little difference.

I’m not really sure why people have decided 10% doesn’t matter, here?

In one way it’s good, I suppose, as it should be about talent, not gear…

…but, quite frankly, it also reeks heavily of people being falsely and continuously reassured, in an attempt to keep the maximum number of players happy.

Or not so unhappy.

Then please also note that one’s progression in wow depends/depended (?) on what other players allow you to have as the weapon drops are usually a lower level than your own, so you can’t get a weapon for your level but have to hope that someone sells it/or allows you to loot it. If no one does you’re undergeared and not allowed to take part in raids/dungeons.
If you want to have the best weapon statwise in GW2 you have to farm – and no one (but Anet to an extend) has control over whether or not you’re allowed to have it.

You’re talking about loot while levelling, here?

For better, or worse, nothing matters much loot-wise, in WoW, anymore, while levelling.

You mentioned, previously, not being able to get a weapon, for your level, from the auction house?

I didn’t respond to that point, as I was a little confused and it just seemed somewhat off-topic, anyway.

Obviously, if no one happens to have listed a level 20 (for example) weapon, on the AH, you can’t buy one.

However, you can still get them from questing and/or dungeons, or from crafting.

Then, once you have one max level char (or maybe below max level, by now?), you can buy heirloom armour and weaps for your alts.

These are accountwide and can be used as many times as you like.

I have the full compliment of them, on my WoW account.

It really takes the pressure off, as you can relax a bit more, about loot, in dungeons and only have to be outraged about loot ninjas in terms of gold-loss and/or transmog-loss and/or the principle of the matter.

As opposed to a significant performance loss, as was the case previously.

It wasn’t hard to get the currency to, gradually, accumulate heirlooms, either.

Group loot in levelling dungeons in WoW, I agree, has always been a total nightmare, due to rampant “ninjaing” (AKA loot theft).

Fortunately, they introduced personal loot in MoP, for max level, for everything up until “Normal” (now renamed “HC”) raids.

But, they then decided to make it non-compulsory in Flex (now renamed “Normal”) level raids, in WoD, for some reason best known to themselves and these raids became virtually unpuggable, due to all the ninjas.

Personal loot is definitely the way to go, in all games, at all levels.

I would never dispute that, it is something I specifically asked for and I would, seriously, question the hidden motives of anyone disputing it as the best way.

In fact, it no longer being compulsory in Flex/Normal was one of the main reasons I left WoW, in WoD and haven’t gone back.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

With peak performance only being about 10% difference between exotic and ascended, most players are already mechanically “best off”.

It is probably worth noting, here, that “real” raiders, in WoW, most of whom min/max obsessively, would laugh at the idea of 10% being considered very little difference.

I’m not really sure why people have decided 10% doesn’t matter, here?

In one way it’s good, I suppose, as it should be about talent, not gear…

…but, quite frankly, it also reeks heavily of people being falsely and continuously reassured, in an attempt to keep the maximum number of players happy.

Or not so unhappy.

Sarrs.4831:

…They went up significantly? TBC was the grindiest expansion and it experienced constant growth. Since Blizzard started adding heavy-duty catchup mechanics in late Wrath, the population growth begun to level off, and the more catchup mechanics they added, the lower sub numbers went.

He’s, clearly, talking about far more recently than TBC.

TBC was the first xpac, the game was still new and shiny and no one knew any better.

Therefore, it was going to succeed, pretty much whatever it made players do.

As opposed to late Wrath/early Cata, where the game was ageing and Cata was not really a popular xpac, in general.

In fact, it was probably the least popular WoW xpac ever produced.

Until WoD, that is…

…and much as I loved Uldum, even I can see why that was the case.

So, basically, you’re comparing apples and oranges and then jumping to (unproven) conclusions about why people stayed, or left, in each case.

The problem in games, ATM, is this trend to arbitrarily remove stuff, that people have got used to having and go back to a more primitive, punitive system.

It’s just, basic, human psychology that we expect things to be added to and for things to be made better, over time.

Not for things to be removed and made worse, again.

Even if we were satisfied with the older thing(s), at the time, as we had never experienced the improvements.

That’s not to say that you can’t, say, carefully streamline things, that were clumsily designed in the first place and/or have become overbloated over time.

Like, for example, 10 years worth of added (and never pruned) abilities, or only-one-right-answer, red herring-filled, talent trees.

But, to just remove things at random, especially good things and drive people back into the dark ages of a game (or of gaming, in general) is never going to be popular with the average person.

As human nature is to gradually evolve, not to devolve.

I’ve done Teq a few times, but I never do anything just for loot.

I know I will become bored if I do anything that isn’t either very well designed, or with totally random possibilities, more than a certain number of times, so I just don’t.

Also, I don’t like having to look stuff up online, as that kills the experience for me and I get the feeling looking stuff up online is exactly what you have to do for things like Teq.

Wolf, there is no onus on me to give “evidence”, as I am merely going by a study that suggests that people become less motivated/disinterested in participating in society, if they are too starved of money.

Especially if this “money starvation” isn’t totally universal and a very few people still make/receive a lot of it.

I am then translating that finding into the game.

There is no evidence (as far as I know) that people don’t think similarly in games of this nature, as they do IRL.

Unless you can provide some (of the totally non-anecdotal kind)?

The point is, you don’t have to provide “evidence” for a theory.

It happens to make sense to me, as I am a player who mainly does EotM/WvW (less of the latter, especially since HoT struck) and I can confirm that the “rewards” can feel pretty miserly.

There’s no point in me answering any of the other questions people have raised, as they and their potential solutions (in some cases) have all been covered, ad nauseam, throughout this thread.

Not only that, but I’m not really interested in telling Anet, exactly, how they should solve the (potential) problem, or not…

That is up to them.

Again, there have been possible solutions put forward throughout the thread; some with more merit than others, IMO.

Jana.6831:

Tigaseye.2047:

No, I didn’t miss his point and I am certainly not envious.

That was the point I was making and keep trying to make.

This isn’t about envy.

As a non-envious/jealous type of person (I’m probably the least envious/jealous person you could ever meet, in fact), I find it offensive that people keep accusing anyone, who can see there is a problem here, of being envious.

Not only that, but in terms of rewards, in this game, I have very little to be envious about anyway.

As I have almost everything I need and/or want.

I don’t have legendaries, as I feel they are overly expensive and so, made a conscious decision to not buy them with real money, as I feel it would be unfair on others to do so.

Not to mention, it would amount to overpaying for the game; especially, considering it’s not the best game it could be, frankly.

I have bought lots of skins, however, as they are “just” skins and I do have a couple of ascended weaps and some armour, from drops.

I can’t guarantee no one else is envious, obviously, but the point is that not everyone is and there is far more to this situation than just (potential) envy.

All I can assume is that all of you saying this are very envious personality types yourselves – which is, probably what motivates you to play the TP so much, to get stuff – and you are just projecting that onto others.

Really, there is no other explanation, other than possible trolling, or repeating what you hear from other (envious personablity type) people, parrot fashion.

This made me really laugh out loud – what problem is there?
I can tell you what a problem was for me: Not being able to get a bow for my level in wow as the TP was controlled by 2 persons max. I had enough gold but no bow had been offered. You can get anything in this game without the TP, so I don’t really understand what “the problem” is.

The problem, lest we all forget at this advanced point in the proceedings, is the one described by Ohoni, in his OP.

That people have a tendency to become demotivated and/or disinterested and/or depressed, if the disparity between the rich and the poor is too great, or if one person receives a windfall that makes them disproportionately more wealthy than the average person in their community.

The “community”, in this case, being the players of the game.

As opposed to the, largely mistaken, common belief (especially in very capitalistic countries, like the US) that witnessing other people’s success/wealth/fortune motivates people to work harder.

The problem here, is that people might decide to just give up and leave the game, if they feel their only viable option to make a reasonable amount of gold, is to play the TP.

…and yes, we could all choose to say that what other people make shouldn’t affect people negatively.

However, the findings of the study, mentioned in the OP, would suggest otherwise.

That should be of interest to Anet, if they want to retain players.

Cyninja.2954:

Tigaseye.2047:

No, Wanze, that is not the problem here and you know it.

You’re just feigning admiration for that post, because it happens to suit your cause to do so.

Obviously, if no one wants any of the rewards (or to accumulate gold) in a game, none of this matters; but the truth is that most people do want some, or all, of them.

Assuming that is, inevitably, going to be the case (and just as well, for Anet’s bank balance, that it is), the problem is that one, niche, way of playing the game is FAR better than others at achieving them.

The “choice” in a game should, pretty obviously, not be “Play the TP, be rich IRL, or become a Buddhist.”.

Much as I admire Buddhists…

I think you missed the point MadRabbit was making.

His point was:

- he plays the parts of GW2 he enjoys
- he doesn’t care about others getting shinies before him
- playing the content he enjoys provides him with enough gold to aquire the amount of ascended/legendarys to his liking

And that’s just the case. You could even only pvp all day, and eventually you’d get enough gold to deckout in ascendedIf you stoped worrying about how much others are making but instead focused on ejoying the game, you’d greatly improve your gaming experience in GW2.

This has nothing to do with “not wanting rewards”. It has to do with “you’ll get them eventually while having fun”. Maybe stop trying to race down everything but instead enjoy the game.

It would also free you of the envy against others who can spend more time, spend more money, are better organised, are better skilled, etc.

Oh and you’d have a lot more longterm goals and enjoyment too.

No, I didn’t miss his point and I am certainly not envious.

That was the point I was making and keep trying to make.

This isn’t about envy.

As a non-envious/jealous type of person (I’m probably the least envious/jealous person you could ever meet, in fact), I find it offensive that people keep accusing anyone, who can see there is a problem here, of being envious.

Not only that, but in terms of rewards, in this game, I have very little to be envious about anyway.

As I have almost everything I need and/or want.

I don’t have legendaries, as I feel they are overly expensive and so, made a conscious decision to not buy them with real money, as I feel it would be unfair on others to do so.

Not to mention that it would amount to overpaying for the game; especially considering it’s not the best game it could be, frankly.

I have bought lots of skins, however, as they are “just” skins and I do have a couple of ascended weaps and some armour, from drops.

I can’t guarantee no one else is envious, obviously, but the point is that not everyone is and there is far more to this situation than just (potential) envy.

All I can assume is that all of you saying this are very envious personality types yourselves – which is probably what motivates you to play the TP so much, to get stuff – and you are just projecting that onto others.

Really, there is no other explanation, other than possible trolling, or repeating what you hear from other (envious personablity type) people, parrot fashion.

Draknar.5748:

Well, you’ve listed a lot of different things and clearly dislike them all. Have you, I dunno, considered playing anything else?

Like why are you even playing this game?

HoT- I enjoy thoroughly
Raids – I, and my guild, enjoy thoroughly
Fractals – my favorite activity in game
Dungeons – this part I’m with you on, but I was never really a big fan in the first place.

The game’s not for you, anymore, and that’s fine. But there’s certainly no sense in continuing to log on if you aren’t having fun. There are lots of other games out there that might be more suited to you.

That sounds like a reasonable suggestion, in theory, but it’s actually not if you think about it.

Especially if someone has, for example, poured a lot of money into the game, only for it to change quite drastically on them.

Then they might not be so happy to just write it all off and start again, somewhere else, where the same thing could, quite possibly, happen again…

Even if people haven’t invested that heavily into the game, in terms of money, they may still have invested a lot of their time and energy into it, to an extent where they don’t want to just abandon all their progress and start again.

They may also be quite attached to their characters etc..

A good game would strive to please everyone (reasonable), as far as possible and while it would look to attract and retain new players, it wouldn’t totally abandon its original ones.

A game should not have to be all about rewards.

Having said that, no one likes to feel short changed.

So, they need to spread the rewards out as evenly as possible, throughout all content, including WvW and EotM.

They should not go back to over-rewarding dungeons alone; but encourage people, who are bored, to experience other areas of the game.

Without making them feel financially penalised for doing so.

qbalrog.8017:

Spirited Was Eceni.3869:

My point? ANet please please please save this game. I used to love this game, I like most of our guildies, I want to do stuff solo or with them again like we used to do before you destroyed the magic. I really don’t want to leave Tyria but I just can’t take this level of boredom for much longer. I’m holding on with the real hope you’ll produce something but I have no idea what that could be. Please just do something.

Yeah… I did as you described for a while, then got bored with it. Now I just monitor the game without logging on. I’m sure they do actually have some interest in fixing things but the trouble is that fixing it will take a very, very long time. Look at the recent post on precursors- even removing something as basic as not requiring events to fail to fill out the collections is going to take some time.

Hopefully, in time, it will be playable again but there’s always new stuff coming out. Many who left, perhaps me, won’t come back if we find something else as fun as the old GW2.

This would make a very good case study for an MBA with a focus on the video game industry, except that there are already many examples of companies in the game world or out of it, assuming they knew what their customers wanted and finding out they were very, very wrong.

Look at most of the people who tell them what they (supposedly) want, though.

If games companies assume these people are, even vaguely, typical of their playerbase, or their potential playerbase, of course they will end up heading in totally the wrong direction for the average player/potential player.

You would think they would get that, simply from the way most of these people express their “demands” and talk about other players…

But, apparently, it’s far too tempting to just count comments, like they’re all equally valid, reasonable and representative.

As opposed to really analysing what is going on and working out who, exactly, is saying what and for what reason/agenda.

Brian.9524:

Saying something is discounted when it is only offered at one price is just a lie.

Yeah, in the EU, you can’t even legally say that, unless you have offered the item for x amount of time at the higher price.

Not sure if this, also, applies to digital goods, but I would assume so?

Maybe they get around it with the gem exchange mechanic?

If so, someone should really be looking into that, as it’s almost certainly, basically, a circumvention of consumer law.

While it is a gamble and while I’m not sure it should be, if you’re spending real money…

…technically, I don’t think they are as bad an investment as unidentified dyes, as I think unidentified dyes have a worse chance of dropping a valuable dye than the dye packs do?

Maybe someone can confirm, or deny, that?

So, while you could buy far more unidentified dyes for the same price, not sure how much higher your typical return would be?

Maybe it would still probably be higher, IDK?

I actually had pretty amazing luck with my only dye pack (the Shadow one); I got 4 rares out of 5, with one of them being the most valuable one.

So, on that basis, I (far) more than got my money back, in potential gold.

But, obviously, as it is a gamble, it could also have easily gone the other way.

No, Wanze, that is not the problem here and you know it.

You’re just feigning admiration for that post, because it happens to suit your cause to do so.

Obviously, if no one wants any of the rewards (or to accumulate gold) in a game, none of this matters; but the truth is that most people do want some, or all, of them.

Assuming that is, inevitably, going to be the case (and just as well, for Anet’s bank balance, that it is), the problem is that one, niche, way of playing the game is FAR better than others at achieving them.

The “choice” in a game should, pretty obviously, not be “Play the TP, be rich IRL, or become a Buddhist.”.

Much as I admire Buddhists…

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Tigaseye.2047:

I’m not prepared to continue this “discussion” with someone like you, or even subject myself to reading any more of your bile.

If you aren’t able to handle a discussion where people can respond to what you say and have differing opinions, you can leave. That’s fine. I see you couldn’t resist an insult on the way out, though.

If you think me describing your comments as “bile” (which just means angry/peevish, BTW) is an insult, that suggests to me that you either don’t really know what it means and/or are coming across in a way that you do not intend.

In general, I’m perfectly happy to talk to people who are prepared to play nicely.

I’m not, on the other hand, prepared to entertain those who aren’t and/or can’t.

Having said, that, I think this particular topic is more than played out, already, personally.

Especially, as most of the regular, non-flipping, players aren’t even commenting.

Presumably, because they are far less inclined to hang out on a game forum all day and night and can see the kind of reception they will receive, if they do dare to say anything.

Liewec.2896:

what is even more annoying is that these sets are all fecking OUTFITS
one-piece sets that you can’t mix and match.
do you want to pay real money to be an unimaginative clone?

OUTFITS SUCK ANET.

yes its insulting that since the $50 3-armour expansion Anet have managed to pump out something like SIX outfits.
but it wouldn’t be quite as bad if these outfits were armour skins.

i would pay for armour skins….

i will never buy a one-piece cashgrab.

every dam week, new outfit, new outfit, new outfit…
WE WANT ARMOUR SKINS.
but hey, expecting anet to get a clue is a bit ambitious.

They’re useful for levelling.

But, yeah, in general, what we need is more armour skins…

…and not just any old armour skins – armour skins that are relatively sleek and unfussy in design, so they can be mixed and matched with each other easily.

Even the armour they have added to the game, from what I have seen anyway, is mostly very distinct and/or oddly bulky and/or very complex in design and/or involves coats/skirts.

Meaning that it probably doesn’t even really add many additional options…

…and armour sets that don’t add (m)any additional mix and match options and can only really be worn as a set successfully, almost might as well be outfits, really.

Rococo.8347:

Malediktus.9250:

One black lion set every 2 weeks is an insult. The old rate of 4-6 week for a new set was more than enough. Add to the insult that most sets would make perfect sense to be ingame rewards.
Mini Sabetha in gem shop is an insult, too.

Its actually more like a new BL weapon set every 10 days – with Gem outfits/bundles etc as much as twice a week -

If that isn’t a Company changing the business model whilst still conveniently charging players for the old system ( B2P) at the same time I don’t know what is.

You cant fleece people with TWO forms of financial penalty for one product without eventually kittening off a whole load of them – I already feel bitter about buying HoT because of this blatant money grab.

Well, you can.

Blizzard charge for xpacs and a sub.

But, the difference is that they do generally add plenty of new armour into the game for that – excluding their monumental f-up with the LFR rewards, in WoD. ><

Also, everyone pays the same.

So, you’re not left with a situation of a few people buying everything with real money, because they care about aesthetics and there’s so little available in the game itself.

While the rest of the playerbase gets to play for years, for virtually nothing, just because they don’t care about aesthetics and/or buy everything with the gold they made from flipping the TP.

If people are, genuinely, very poor IRL, that is one thing – but, that isn’t always the case, obviously.

Malediktus.9250:

One black lion set every 2 weeks is an insult. The old rate of 4-6 week for a new set was more than enough. Add to the insult that most sets would make perfect sense to be ingame rewards.
Mini Sabetha in gem shop is an insult, too.

Thing is, if you want all, or even most of, your rewards to be in-game, you need to play a sub game.

That way, you have paid (and continue to pay) to obtain access to them, via the content that drops them.

Not only that, but if you want them to all drop from raid bosses, on harder difficulties (as opposed to being a random drop, from anywhere, or from easy and fun content), you also need to play a sub game where either no one notices, or no one minds, that they are paying a sub for virtually nothing, if they don’t real raid…

Whereas, in this game, with your initial purchase, you are not really paying for much in-game stuff, at all.

You are only really paying for access to content, which then provides a certain amount of gold (normally, not much…), so you can eventually save for the rewards, if you want them.

Or, obviously, give-in and buy them with real money immediately/sooner.

See the problem with all this?

Casuals (i.e. the majority of players) are not going to want to pay a sub, if they can’t ever hope to get the rewards, by playing the content they enjoy/are able to do and almost no one is going to pay for stuff from a gemstore, to help fund a non-sub game, if they can get a decent number of items easily and for free (or included in initial purchase) in-game.

So, unless you’re really careful and clever, you end up with two blatantly bad/pointless situations:

1. The unfair situation of casuals and other indignant customers feeling forced to leave a sub game, like WoW, due to Blizzard feeling the need to pander, almost exclusively, to the preferences of a few hardcore players.

2. The ridiculous situation of being expected to buy stuff to wear/use, in a game that drops next-to-nothing, including gold; unless you enjoy playing a very basic form of a stock market simulator.

The Greyhawk.9107:

Tigaseye.2047:

a pair of flip-flops (that’s the UK name for them – not sure about the US one?),

We call them flip-flops as well.

Ah, OK – thank you.

Yeah, I’m currently levelling a third character the old fashioned way, for fun and it is a bit of a struggle without the extra bag slots, even though I have 18 slot bags (which provide the most bang [or bag] for your buck).

I don’t want to buy yet more bag slots.

I mainly do WvW/EotM and I’ve already spent a lot on the game, in real money and far prefer to save up/splash out some real cash for cosmetic rewards; not boring old bag slots.

If everyone was like me and spent on inconsequential fluff, they wouldn’t even need to charge for mundane (but very helpful) things, like extra bag slots.

So, I do find I resent being expected to do it somewhat.

Especially for every character.

That’s not a bikini, that’s a swimming costume/bathing suit.

Right, now I’ve got my attack of swimwear-based pedantry out of the way (sorry!), I will say it’s very nice.

Good colour, as well.

Would be nice if that was the costume that appeared on the beach; rather than the pale yellow bra and panties.

Wisper.2764:

So strange that they choose to put outfits like that Slayer one * which have a lot of uggly details * in my opinion < But a bikini, which is simple and could sell a lot they don’t. I mean.. let’s be honest here, everyone would buy at least one of them Kappa

As long as they were a reasonable price.

I don’t think they could charge more than 200 gems for just a bathing suit alone and if they added more, then they might lose sales, if people didn’t like the “more”.

What they could do, is make a “beach bundle”, which could include a dyeable bathing suit and other beach accessories (i.e. to be set down – not to be worn), like a beach towel, a pair of flip-flops (that’s the UK name for them – not sure about the US one?), a colourful beach-type drink (can’t use the actual name, on here) in a glass and various beach toys. xD

I need to stop giving them ideas…

I knew it would be a HUGE mistake to even try to enter into a dialogue with someone like you, Wolf.

Just a (very) brief skim of your post told me I was absolutely correct.

I’m not prepared to continue this “discussion” with someone like you, or even subject myself to reading any more of your bile.

Best of luck, Ohoni.

DeShadowWolf.6854:

Source for those stats? Where is this ratio coming from and what is it based on? All I see is hyperbole and apples-to-oranges false comparison.

It’s not a “stat”; it’s an analogy.

That is, roughly, how it feels to do certain things in this game, relative to doing other things.

It’s out of whack, even compared with the unfairness of the real world, in this way.

Lol. Cute.

Is that really all you’ve got to say to that?

Don’t have the nerve to try to deny it, I see.

Amazed you didn’t just tiptoe around that uncomfortable fact, altogether…

Good luck when you and your family, need help from other, kinder, more altruistic people.

They may not be so kind.

Especially if they feel exploited by people like you.

And yet, aren’t you the people that want to relax, to not be thinking of the game as the real world with all its concerns and needs? I will say this: the real world rewards work with money, not relaxation. That much has carried over.

No, I don’t want to “relax” and still get gold.

No point in even buying my char stuff, if I don’t play the game.

I also don’t want to work like a dog, for months, to get what you get in a few days; or be forced to do what you do.

Sitting around on the TP isn’t, in any way, hard work.

It’s just distasteful, bordering on immoral (at times) and boring.

Yes, I would prefer that the game didn’t mirror real life, in that way; but, I realise this is an MMO and so, it is supposed to, to an extent.

As such, it should also mirror the bits of real life that people like you don’t like (like the higher taxes on the rich); as well as the ones you love.

Otherwise, it should really do neither.

Oh and re. real world rewards:

Anyone with any brain at all knows it is not, primarily, about how hard you work; but, far more, about what you do.

You know it, I know it, most (even vaguely bright) children know it…

So, don’t try to pull that “Just work harder.” type of rubbish, with me, Wolf.

Altair.2905:

Reading over many of those it seems like there’s a lot of micromanagement of the creative talent. I think anyone with common sense can see why this is bad management. CEO also seems to be focusing on roles that CEO’s are not supposed to be focused on.(details vs long term strategy)

Ugh, I don’t know about that…

If you have a creative vision, for the overall product, of course you will tend to want that vision to remain true and cohesive.

So, you may end up having to get involved in the details.

But, of course, that will tend to be annoying for some of the creative staff…

Especially the ones who think of themselves as individual talents, rather than being the vital cogs in a bigger machine.

Takes a bit of humility to think like that, frankly.

Having said that, the titles of the comments (I didn’t sign up to read more) often involved a poor management accusation, so perhaps there is a problem there.

PopeUrban.2578:

“Peer review” sites are inherantly biased toward negative reviews because those with nothing bad to say don’t want to burn bridges, risk their career, or alienate future employers.

Surely, you could also say the opposite, though?

People with only good to say, could use peer review sites to suck up to future employers?

Kind of says to a future employer;“Employ me and even when we eventually part ways, I’ll leave you a glowing review!”.

As opposed to the disgruntled former employee, who has to be pretty brave and honest to speak his, or her, mind; despite (quite possibly) being unemployed at the time.

fireflyry.7023:

This thread reeks of envy.

Maybe PvP more?

Easily ignored as far as I’m concerned. Give PvPers their ego-peen. Like I care.

Just give people the choice.

I can’t guarantee no one here is envious, but in my case, don’t want ANYTHING next to my name.

No title, no WvW rank (however high it might get); nothing.

If it was envy, on my behalf, I’d want the thing I’ve done a lot of, or done well at, displayed; but, not anything I haven’t.

That is not the case.

I want it all hidden.

I’m not sure what’s happening to the game, but it doesn’t feel like the type of game I first joined, in this way.

Feels suspiciously like a bait and switch, ATM.

Anet, you have a beautiful game, here – it’s not perfect, but the way to “solve” that is, obviously, not to ruin the things that were good about it.

One of those things was its clean look, without lots of extraneous visual clutter everywhere.

I get that some people like to brag – I don’t like it, but I recognise it – but, it doesn’t mean we all do.

So, please let us hide it.

DoctorDing.5890:

Haha! I’m loving Icon Wars. “Hurts my eyes”, rofl.
There are much bigger and better things to agonise over.

Tigaseye.2047:

It concerns me, to an extent, that these games are virtually bringing up people’s children.

What kind of adults are they going to turn into?

Oh, that’s right, we know, because it’s already happened, lol.

The good news is that these people are easy to spot in RL.
You’ll see them in a crossed-arm sulk outside a shop because they can’t buy what they want NOW for half the ticket price.
You’ll also see some of them sporting bruises where they learned that some behaviour and/or comments are not acceptable in RL.

Well, I’m not entirely sure about the first example, as I don’t think most games encourage people to think they can get things cheaper than the sticker price.

..and of course, quite a lot of older people try to haggle, too.

I do think the second example has some merit, though, sadly…

Having said that, many of the ruder people you encounter online are older (often, quite a lot older) people.

So, rudeness is definitely not limited to people who were “brought up” by online games, to be fair.

I do think encouraging people to brag is inadvisable, though.

It’s hard to say if games affect younger people, in that way and if so, how much.

Especially as very young people do just tend to brag more, anyway; as they may not have really learned that most people don’t react well to it, yet.

But, it can’t help, if some of your main social interactions, growing up, involve glorifying bragging.

That has to reinforce that tendency, surely, rather than discouraging it?

DeShadowWolf.6854:

No. In this system, there is nothing preventing the poor from going out and doing any number of things to get quite a bit of money. The reason they are poor and will remain there is because they don’t want to do something about it.

No.

The problem is that that “something” they have to do is far too limited to one thing, in terms of gold per hour.

In this case, mainly, the TP.

It’s the equivalent of making people IRL play the stock market, or only earn $0.30 per hour being a soldier, or a teacher, or a nurse…..or even a doctor.

Even in this currently unfair world, in that way, that is still NOT the case.

People can do other things than being a stockbroker and still be fairly comfortable.

…and thank God that is the case, as you stockbroker types need all those professions (and FAR more) to keep you and your families alive and thriving.

FAR more than they need you, in fact.

…and if people get very rich, via whatever they do, they are taxed more highly.

Which is how it should be.

Economies still function and in fact, the only time they generally stop functioning properly, is when people’s wages are held down and they are encouraged to live on too much credit, to try to make up the difference.

That is how the real world works and yet, apparently, that wouldn’t be possible in a game?

I know this is a non-sub game, so Anet may think they have additional reasons for keeping most people poor; but, it is still a bad business move to make the only way of making decent money, gambling on the TP.

Because, most of their customers don’t want to have to do that very much, if at all.

I don’t want to get into a discussion with you, as I haven’t liked your attitude throughout this thread, at all, frankly and I’ve had more than enough on my plate already, attempting (and failing) to get through to Harper and Smooth Penguin.

But, this needed to be said.

Tommyknocker.6089:

Paradox.1380:

I earned my PvP icon (mine happens to be the green one because I spent some time getting to the next level), the same as you earned your World Complete Icon. If you don’t like it, just turn off name plates. I should be allowed to show off my icon anywhere I want to.

I earned my WvW rank too (platinum in “real” WvW), where is my icon?

Why should you as a PvP player that already gets tons of extras including tracks and the xp boosts every other weekend get more than I do? You might want to reevaluate your ego here, some of us have achieved milestones too yet we get nothing for it.

I know.

Also, TBH, I don’t want anything displayed next to my name.

I don’t even show titles, in games, unless they’re funny, pointless ones (I find most of them boastful).

So, I definitely don’t want stuff like ranks shown next to my name.

Whether they’re high, or low.

It’s bad enough that my char runs around bragging about nothing, without me being forced to, as well.

As I said previously, it almost feels like games are designed by aliens, sometimes.

It concerns me, to an extent, that these games are virtually bringing up people’s children.

What kind of adults are they going to turn into?

Oh, that’s right, we know, because it’s already happened, lol.

Mirtis.6847:

Jana.6831:

Mirtis.6847:

Options > General Options > Show all player names

you can even change it before getting into the game….to avoid your eyes get hurt again.
and then you can press “ALT” or hold it down whenever you felt masochistic and wanted to hurt your eyes again.

You shouldn’t do that in wvw though where it matters how many enemies you see and how early you see them – ths requires the name plates of all players and you can see the pvp badge of your allies. And like someone said somewhere: it is distracting. But alas, we’ll probably get used to it.

you can still see the enemy name plates since there is a different option for them.this one just disables friendly name plates.
Still, holding down alt or ctrl is not a tedious task before fight neither is tapping them in the middle of fight.

But, what if you want to see their names?

For example, if you do WvW, you may want to see if there are characters you know around you, or not.

Also, reading other people’s name choices adds a certain amount of flavour to the game.