Guild Wars 2

milo.6942:

instead of 1 per day, should be 7 per week
it’s still pretty kittenty, but it’s better

Yeah, it would be better. Except it doesn’t solve the one problem Daily things were meant to solve in the first place:

An active MMO needs to have something to draw players to want to play even semi-regularly. Not just “special events, raid nights, and that’s it”. Honestly, the Living Story might be a better draw than the Daily carrot . . . but only if it starts picking up and honing itself.

We’re saying GW1 had difficulty? Where a competent, non-AI Monk with a refreshing Res skill could make it so you were probably not going to wipe and it was only a matter of time rather than “get more skilled”?

I mean, if we’re talking HM Eternal Grove, or missions where “Protect X” was a goal, sure. Though those were just usually stacked against you anyway.

For the record? 55 Monk was developed relatively early in the game life of GW1. So was the W/R IWAY . . .

LordByron.8369:

actually many people gave a second chane to the game.
Because after all rings were quite easy to get possibly due to complaints.

Then they slowly and subtly started to introduce grinding with laurels and time gated content.

People is not so dumb and noticed…….ascended armor can be the final offense for many (myself included).

Here’s where I get into a problematic way of thinking . . .

The players of the game aren’t a nebulous, single-minded entity. Nor are they only “the sheep/addicts/fanbois” and “the smart ones”. There are those who want Content X over Content Y, or even Content Z before it. And there are players who really hate Content X and think Content Y should be priority . . .

The “grind”, well, a lot of things people want to throw under that umbrella term were said to not be short-term goals but something to work for. In other words, yes, you were expected to put some effort into getting to them.

And the “gated” bits, the more I look at them the more I want to point out there are alternatives to most of the material rewards. Laurels were a way to allow people to time-gate to stuff as opposed to letting random chance award you a gift; I will note short of the Ascended stuff there’s next to nothing of use there.

(Except that cat tonic, it’s just too awesome not to have.)

It’s okay, though. I mean, I’m not going to change anyone’s mind by explaining anything about why I enjoy playing the game still despite all the grind and such added to it. I’m not going to convert anyone from the crowd thinking Content X isn’t the worst addition ever. Their minds are made up, they’ve gone off already to pursue other shiny new upcoming releases. Which probably will live up to the hype about as well as this last title did.

It’s okay, it could be worse. It could be Daikatana.

“You don’t want to be the Guy. You want to be the guy the Guy counts on.”
- Leo McGarry

Xhyros.1340:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rangers auto-resurrect? What?

. . . since when and why hasn’t that worked for me?

Since forever. Learn your skills. Someone already posted the answer in this thread.

Oh, I see . . . I thought that didn’t work on yourself, and hadn’t thought to try it since I use Rampage as One instead for the Stability. (I hate being knocked around a lot on WvW, which had become commonplace for a couple months )

I think if the next update has less instanced minigames and less achievements related to them, it’ll turn out better. Also, look forward to the rotation of them starting later IF I can still get achievements for it.

LordByron.8369:

But even all this is useless because even in game there are huge complaints about ascended stuff.

Of late, I’ve seen huge complaints about:

- The cost of ascended stuff. Notably, the need to get lucky doing Fractals until you get the Mist parts. Or the need for lots of tier 6 fine materials, which is what has me grumbling a lot myself. (Oh, and 250 Karka Shell? really . . .)

- The uselessness of Infusions. Especially since the Achievement revamp allows you to get bonuses to things the Utility Infusions were for originally. Also the +5 or so isn’t spectacular so it’s almost a waste of upgrade.

- The release of it. As in, it’s not all released at the same time and certain stat types aren’t there yet. (Though usually refuted with “just Zerk and get on with it”.) And this is something I know I saw an ANet person say “yeah we kinda goofed on that”.

I think, honestly, anyone who had a big enough problem with Ascended gear as power-creep has already taken off, rather than wait patiently for the last bits to get released before taking off. Anyone who says it drove them off now is probably unhappy about more than that, and it’s just the latest thing that irritated them. But the ones who had a serious problem with it? Already took off back in November.

Shiren.9532:

When I’m talking about strong female characters I’m talking about characters with a backbone, with conviction, characters that can hold their own in the world and specific to this case, a character that is physically tough and can fight on the front lines. I’m not talking about a character that has strong writing (you can be weak in a story but be written very well). You don’t have to be feminine to be a strong female character, but GW2 too often takes it the opposite way, to make a female character a tough warrior that can fight on the front lines, they remove femininity from them. “Strong” and “feminine” are not mutually exclusive but GW2 too often treats them as though they are. Several of the characters you listed are quite feminine despite having their own strength (whether it be physical strength or strength of character) that lets them hold their own in the world around them.

But again, they don’t need to have femininity to be a strong female character. I find myself having problems since there aren’t that many characters who have strong feminine “vibes” coming off them who are central to story. Even Countess Anise (I do love her style) doesn’t register as “feminine” as much as “illusionist protector of the Queen”. Even the Queen doesn’t quite come off as feminine, she comes off as charming.

Of course, what exactly do we mean by “feminine”? Sex appeal? That’s kind of a narrow definition of it. Motherly? I think that’s just “nurturing female” and there’s plenty of that feel in some characters who don’t register as female to me first as much as “someone protecting a weaker, younger character”.

So what is it, and how do you know if you see it?

By the way, Queen Jennah, Countess Anise, and Marjory all would be good examples of “strong characters”, and it’s a pity since the first isn’t present as much, the second disappears entirely, and the third has that . . . noir thing going on which is slightly out of sync with the game.

Rangers auto-resurrect? What?

. . . since when and why hasn’t that worked for me?

Obscure One.4357:

There are three problems right there that’ve gone on for entirely too long.

-1: Putting PvE goals in PvP zones.

Hey ANet, cut that !#% out. If it's not relevant to whipping some other kids !# don’t put it in WvW, because that kid from PvE is used to the “auto-attack until it poops a treasure chest.” mechanic of your Special Olympics meta-events where everyone who shows up gets a !@#$ing Gold medal.

Sir, you are preaching to a convert. I put it more politely more often, but I don’t like caches or such in Obsidian Sanctum any more than the next person. The difference is that I just shrug and go around it, especially after it got put into another map.

Also, not sure if you can really count WvW as “pure PvP” with all the extra stuff running around. It’d be pure PvP if there were no guards and only players protecting objectives. Heck that sounds like it’d be more interesting in the short run but more frustrating overall.

-2: Artificial Inflation/Deflation of server presence.

Like clock work the fair weather WvWers show up and also leave as soon as that aforementioned piece of cheese gets put in the maze. They just sniff their way to it wherever it may be, WvW or some crap zone that was literally a ghost town before the event, it doesn’t matter. Rewards should reflect personal play choice equally, not discourage/encourage it artificially.

Ehhhh. Rewards should remain an encouragement to try something outside the norm, otherwise you wind up with the Queensdale Event Train becoming beloved even stronger. Or the Pen/Shelter camp. Or half a dozen other things which are popular , like the WvW Flip Trains . . .

I would like them to be more meaningful, rather than “scoop your Achievement Points and move on”, but . . .

-3: Content in stasis.

Two maps. That’s right Two. One copy and pasted for each server, and one for everyone to share. Want to fix queue times in WvW? Give us more places to be. New zones that pop up in the mists that might provide players with something new to do, things to learn, new mechanics, and character progression? Sounds like a great idea! We’ll just make that one a PvE exclusive that still has no WvW equivalent…brilliant, truly, the epicness of the fail is unrivaled.

Queue times aren’t a huge issue except on servers where a large portion of the players go to WvW. You should know there are servers where people just don’t go there, or servers where they get spanked so thoroughly people stop showing up. Queue times aren’t an issue in those cases.

And if you added new maps, there are three points of contention which would be raised:

- New Map Completion, or Map Completion being made pointless from having had a point.

- Diluting the presence in the “classic” four maps, making it harder for a server to protect against an active opponent.

- Not enough attention is being paid to the rest of the game, only to WvW.

Nurvus.2891:

In short, you had plenty of interesting choices in GW1.
There are barely any choices in GW2, since your choice of Traits automatically affects your choice of Gear and Runes – and there is little freedom in that.

I still think there weren’t that many interesting choices in GW1 for gear upgrades, and don’t thing “your choice of Traits automatically affects gear and Runes”.

The big customization in GW1 had to do with Attributes and Skills, which we don’t have now. Because as much as I liked being able to make some amazing builds with 50+ skills at my fingertips and the sub-classes you could arrange to have broadening it . . . the complexity was really overwhelming and in some cases didn’t offer much. At least, to me; I know some people spent a lot of time developing certain build types which could roll everything in the game and never break a sweat. For me, I was highly limited by being R/X.

Customization in GW2 isn’t in your skill bar, it’s in your Traits and gear Prefix/Rune choices. Some of which are not useful in the least, much like in GW1. (You will have to convince me Frenzy in GW1 wasn’t a trap to put on the bar after you got something else for IAS, or that a lot of the Elite Skills didn’t measure up.)

I don’t know how else to put this but . . . I don’t think complexity is automatically a sign a game is better. I don’t think a simplified set of Runes shows a game is worse. I think a lack of reason not to go full Berserker gear is far worse . . . but that’s just me.

Bovinity.8610:

Oh no, the PvE-Heroes will tell you that because there’s one Kite in EB JP, they are the most persecuted and ignored people in the entire history of gaming, and that WvW players are clearly the only group that ANet pays attention to.

If they paid more attention to WvW beyond that World XP system then I might be more in tune with it . . . the problem is, I am guessing, how much do you alter WvW after launch without kitten ing off everyone who is used to it and likes it being what it is?

Edit: Also, the trouble of “diluting” or “saturating” the maps with people who are there only for the Living World material or not there because something else is drawing them away.

Nuka Cola.8520:

What content? All we got is fractals which was a solid piece of content but a content that gets no support/bug fixes becomes irrelevant after couple of months.

Yup, that sounds exactly right. Hold on, I need to check to see what I still need to upgrade my Scelerite Karka Shell, which is totally not new . . . while finding a place to store some quartz which isn’t actually there, and double-check to see if my coins from the Super Adventure Box didn’t get shuffled somewhere into a corner, though since it’s not content I’m sure it won’t matter.

Of course, all we have is Fractals so maybe that’ll console me to sleep

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Narcemus.1348:

WoodenPotatoes, the man he is talking about is the one we are talking about and we are stating that the PC’s get plenty of chances to KILL the evil necromancer in GW1. I find it highly unlikely that Verata has anything to do with the movement of the castle or the creation of the elementals protecting the city. The creation of elementals is only seen as possible through Elementalists, which we believe uses a different division of magic than necromancers.

he is not, but apprentice of the aprentice of his aprentice who were cultist and “by the rules of the cult” was chosen to continue “sacred” way to invent everlasting necromantic minion after so many problems with accidentally met adventurers who was making too many casualties, could discover how he can move to the castle and placed all the cult there and later – when garenhoff was founded his apprentice moved castle to be closer to it because that was “free” source of both experimental rabbit and chosen to have a chance to continue “sacred researches”.
and in many years after that method was changing, and in the way to achieve sacred goal they managed to make something that is half of things he have to make… everlasting elemental minion (no elementalist can summon lesser elemental for unending time yes? so clutist have made it :P) and used it to convince garenhoff people to peacefully giving them youngs they needed

and now we have aprentice of the aprentice of the aprentice [blah blah blah] of the Verata who are following “sacred goal” that he (verata) ordered and now is the master of the castle….

Can we mark this as speculation rather than fact?

Duke Blackrose.4981:

- that’s a strange occurance in the MMORPG world, and one that points to a healthy game, rather than a failing one.

Actually, it points to ArenaNet hiring more staff, but that’s just my interpretation of events. I don’t know enough about what’s going on with those new hires or behind their doors to know whether the business is healthy or not.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Hard to disagree. This forum has a bunch of fanboys like Vayne who enjoy cotton candy content and “press F to collect free reward”. To those people, when you state something negative you’re instantly a troll because they (the minority) enjoyed spamming F collecting free rewards. If those people went back playing games on their facebook, this whole forum would be very negative and anet would have no choice but change their updates. #dealwithit its the truth, truth you, Vayne and some others certainly not wanting to believe.

I enjoy the game but not for “Press F to collect free reward”, and I hate Facebook games because I don’t have Facebook . . .

Also, you are mistaken. ANet would have a choice, they always have a choice in the matter much as we all have the choice to simply stop. Which is what I do from time to time, oh, roughly every week and a half . . . come back for a few days now and then and then return to my silly other diversions.

Like Catan.

Nurvus.2891:

They are perfectly comparible, in that they have a completely different mentality behind them.

GW2 procs focus on numerical superiority – pure damage, healing, stat increases, etc.
GW1 procs focused mostly on gameplay opportunities – stuff that makes you use your character differently.

GW2 pretty much simplified everything interesting from GW1 into numbers.

. . . you sure about that?

Most Insignia were about numbers. Especially for situation-based defense such as “+Armor vs Fire/Slashing/etc”. Most weapon grips/hilts were about numbers, while the blades/strings were about elemental type damage (or increase of condition time). Most Inscriptions were not terribly reliable due to the random chance.

Also, I dunno about you, but I found more often people wanted “spike” builds (fast massive damage) over condition builds when going into PvP. So using things which had a random chance of going off over a guaranteed bonus wasn’t often asked for.

. . . oh, and there was almost never a point I found in the game where any of those bonuses were actually integral to me staying alive versus failing

Rosen Myst.7641:

Wow… I feel like I shouldn’t have to do this but apparently I do.
There is no such thing as “GW1 Lore” or “GW2 Lore”.
There is just “GW Lore”.
Both events are of significant interest to an actual lore fan because they both contain new lore.

Of course, all the lore together from both games constitutes Guild Wars Lore. Just like there’s world history but we can divide that history into different periods .. Greeks, Romans, medieval, renaissance, etc.

In the same way we can divide GW lore into two eras for the purpose of discussion (lore introduced in GW1 and lore introduced in GW2.) much like ancient history and modern history. I don’t see the problem.

I’d divide the lore into four periods.

- Ancient Lore (Pre Guild Wars 1)
- Post-Searing Lore (Guild Wars 1, Prophecies through Great Destroyer)
- “Beyond” Lore (Guild Wars Beyond and up until the release of Guild Wars 2)
- Current Lore

I’d also put a fifth category
- Secondary Canon Lore (Extra bits NOT found inside the games themselves.)

Because that stuff is flexible, and may be changed without warning.

Do we have a recharge or cast time reduction proc in GW2? I am not entirely sure I saw any which weren’t traits . . . or Quickness.

The extra effects on most of the upgrades are not the same in either game, so I find it hard to compare straight across whether one is ‘better design’ than the other. They both fill different gaps. I will say I find many more of the Sigils and Runes less useful to me and don’t sweat which ones I use.

As opposed to GW1 where I went out of my way for that +30 Fortitude bow grip, that Zealous dagger haft, or that Inscription of “Hail to the King” . . . the Minion Master Insignia for my necro heroes . . .

GW2? “Meh, Superior Sigil of Life? Sure, it’ll do.”

Edit: Wow, you edited your post as I replied. Striking the old quote. New stuff below.

= = = = =

GW1 didn’t have “better” randomness, it was tighter in range so it feels due to numbers being smaller (the benefit of being constrained to a range like 15-28 on a weapon and no higher). Its random loot generation was as bad as what we have going on now, especially in the field of Ecto, Obsidian, and Gemstones. The “random match” mechanic was often a joke and could be gamed to a point, and WAS often “sync’d” to stack friends onto a randomly selected team.

Random was an aggravation and a problem before, and it still is.

I liked Shadow of the Mad King a lot. However, as far as best content?

I really like the northeastern quadrant of Frostgorge Sound.

Nurvus.2891:

In Guild Wars 2, however, you have things such as 2-6% procs, you can have 20% chance to crit for 250% damage, and all other kinds of situations that make it so that whether or not you win a fight has little or nothing to do with your skill, but with how lucky you got.

I think that’s a slight bit of hyperbole. Though luck to not be the only one facing four enemies in a PvP or WvW setting, all at the same time and flat-footed, certainly would count on whether you win or take a waypoint trip.

Xenon.4537:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

League of Legends – THE most popular game in existence.

Actually I think Tetris is technically the most popular.

I rather thought it was some card game . . . or maybe backgammon? I dunno, someone want to fish up statistics on this?

Meanwhile, off to see about fixing my DOSbox build for more UFO: Enemy Unknown.

Thobek.1730:

gandarr.2160:

i think the story in the living story have 2 issues
1-no fantasy epic(wars, gods, plagues,dark powers, etc…..) , it all center about social stories like (politics, elections, consortium and their capitalistic issues, canach’s Psychological issues about being second born..etc..) i know that they want it to be more mature but come on its a fantasy game, they can mix fantasy with maturity game of thrones.

you nailed it. Not enough high end (epic) fantasy. I think it can still be mature but mix that in with a high end fantasy story and I’ll be happy.

I think it’s better when it’s not high fantasy.

Nuka Cola.8520:

and what have you done to the game by telling everyone how you enjoyed that new mini puzzle? Nothing. If there’s a lot of people complaining about their current crappy updates it may change in the future, if not, mini jumping puzzles and mini games is the future of gw2. This thread is still going because lots of people see the potential but with every update it just fades away.

Holy hyperbolic projections. XKCD put something together about using small data point selections to do a projection, I’d link it but I’m sure it’d be removed. #605 for the curious.

So what have you done positive for the game? Let’s open it up and ask . . . we should start polling people and seeing exactly what impact they had on the game. I’ll bet money most people don’t have any direct impact on the game at all. Except maybe “I sent a bug report and it got fixed in the first two weeks”.

This thread is still going because everyone likes to talk like they have a good read on the “problem with the game”. Fair notice, people – it’s not one problem, for which there’s a simple solution. There’s no switch to turn on or off which will “fix” things. Especially when you consider “fixing” them for one set of people will “break” them for another.

This thread is still going because, despite the fact there’s argument, there hasn’t been a gross lack of respect or politeness to cause the moderators to lock it up and throw away the keys. It gives me hope people can at least discuss this sort of thing without invoking the Godwin.

This thread isn’t going to go very much further with new developments, though, because it’s the same people over and over again. The game is flawed, it’s not perfect, but it’s not a gods-forsaken mess worse than my last performance review either.

You know what ruined MMOs for me?

Going back and playing the old games on emulated or restarted servers. Once I tried to go back to some of those old systems I realized just how much my games had changed over the years.

. . . also, that Minecraft with enough mods tacked on can do anything except curved walls/floors.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

There’s no reason in the world to suppose that in the beginning of the paragraph Colin meant one thing by grind and by the end of the paragraph he’d suddenly changed his definition of grind.

No? Someone around here claimed they blamed the, shall we say, manifest confusion on bad editing.

Bad editing on their end, bad editing on the end of the people slicing out quotes to make a point, or bad editing on the charr armor?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The asura want to rule the world economically. Make all the races dependent on them. They don’t intend to rule by brute force (magical or otherwise), because they know that’d be pointless. You cannot rule over charr or norn easily with strength.

Though it’s only the Arcane Council that truly wants this.

. . . they’d get bored of it in two generations.

Which fight will people remember the most favourably I wonder? You seriously don’t think things like that will have an effect on peoples decisions?

What fight will I remember most favorably? Monster Hunter Freedom Unite . . . Dual Nargacuga with a bow. No cheesing with flash bombs. I haven’t had any other fight be that intense, that required of quick reflexes, and that dependent on NOT gear but skill. Pure skill. If we’re gonna talk dragons though, then I’ll have to refer to Kushala Daora, technically a dragon but not a huge one. Annoying as heck though and quite a thrilling fight once you get up there in difficulty.

But when I log into an MMO . . . I do not expect anything near that level of tense combat. I haven’t ever had anything which could be called “close” to it, except a few tense battles . . . in WvW.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Really? How old are you people?

1. Elections are made without knowing any numbers until the day it’s time to count the votes.
2. If Anet rigged the election why would they even do this event?
3. In other threads Kiel supporters says Anet are on Evons side and gives all the fluff to Evons side.
4. We all have our reasons to vote, for the instance, for the WP cost and more and what’s more fun is that all Evon supporters I see are guessing that WP’s is the reason why people vote for Kiel.
5. Some players don’t care, some players just puts in this token 50/50 to get a chanse to compleate all Achievements.
6. There is a score 52% vs 48%, that doesn’t sound like a loss at all yet, me and my fiancee has alot of tokens stored and will vote when we are done, I am a Kiel supporter and she is a Evon supporter for our own reasons.

You do know the election is, in fact, rigged right? There’s all kinds of evidence people keep finding and trumpeting all around Lion’s Arch.

I mean, just today I learned it was rigged so Rox would win. I was a little drunk at the time so it made perfect sense when they were talking. Not sure if it still makes sense in the morning.

lordkrall.7241:

How many books show you the exact connection during the first chapters?

Well, I could name a few, but the Hobbit sells it right away, as does Lord of the Rings. We know exactly what the end of the book is going to be like. I could go digging in my box of books and probably come up with some others, too.

“Waiting for the Galactic Bus” by Parke Godwin sets absolutely everything up early and it’s all just following the drama through the pages.

“The Icarus Hunt” by Timothy Zahn gets into motion fast and while the clues are slow to arrive? Almost all the important pieces to later mysteries are in the first handful of chapters. Similarly, “The Conqueror’s Trilogy” from the same author gives you a lot front-loaded – it’s a trait which is common in his work from what I’ve been reading.

BUT . . .

“The Vor Game” by Lois McMasters Bujold on the other hand, uses its first few chapters to set up almost a completely different story from the rest of the book, yet it’s essential. The same goes for the rest of the series, which I would say is worth a read.

“Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn” by Tad Williams might well set up the stakes in the first act of the book but there’s no way of realizing just how deep the problem is until much later.

There’s absolutely no way in knowing just what the heck is going to happen in “A Song of Ice and Fire” from book to book, though you can pretty much trust the characters to act consistently . . . you view events through a limited third-person perspective so a lot of things come out of nowhere. I refuse to spoil here any event which may have been a headliner on gossip sites this summer

Terrahero.9358:

i very much doubt the election is rigged. If they wanted to go with a certain route they couldve just done so and no one wouldve cared.

Why set up an illusion of an election then? Why go through the trouble? Remember, you spend ingame gold and even gems/money to boost your support for 1 candidate. If it turned out that ANet had intented for a certain candidate to win no matter what, the backlash would be huge.

Why risk all that?

What people are saying is that instead of just doing what they want like they have so far, they go through extra trouble to setup a contrived election, which they then rig to still do what they wanted to do. Which can only come back to bite them in the kitten .

It’s been done before in fiction works and in gaming circles (I’m at least positive it was done at LEAST once I’m aware of). Why do it?

Because they can.

Are they? Pfft, everyone knows it’s rigged so Evon will win. Then Kiel can return to being Magnus’ right-hand mini-Trahearne standing around while we run stamping out fires and taking the credit instead of sitting around doing nothing and being written out.

Uvatha.5476:

This LS has the community more immersed than any content thus far.

You’re thinking “Engaged” not “Immersed”.

Kirschwasser.3972:

Charak.9761:

elections already rigged since you can’t even see the progression.

… Most votes are held without being able to see who voted what or what the progression is until the end.

Have you never in your life been part of a vote where you write down your vote and put it in a box? Like maybe when you were in school or something?

I’ve done it a couple times, like every four years or so. And there’s always a lot of questioning whether it’s rigged. That’s all I’ll say on that topic.

On the topic of the Captain’s Council being rigged? Pfft, of course it is. I foresee Evon being too concerned about losing like he was in the past that he does something monumentally stupid and shoots himself (metaphorically) so that he can’t be permitted to win or bring shame on Lion’s Arch.

dronzer.8392:

The stories in GW1 has a better sense of scale to them, you’d slowly build to this final encounter and it would be always be something grand, didn’t get that feeling here…

Probably the most valid complaint on my end too . . . each of the GW1 storylines all had a high fantasy feel to them, while GW2 tends to feel like low fantasy. Not to mean that it’s bad (it is in places . . .) but that it’s not feeling as high-stakes after about two thirds through.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats simply completely untrue. They’re giving you free stuff every 2 weeks and then remove a portion of it after that period is up. You’re still ending with an overall bigger game 2 weeks after 2 weeks and in anycase they didnt remove a single pixel of what you got at launch so your statement is simply false.

You’re both right, by degrees of “right”.

They’re adding things every two weeks, and after four the story is shut and a few things are left to remain. The game is overall bigger, and things from launch are still there. However, the changes thus far have been less than substantial.

I hope there’s more coming, and more substantial changes to the world. But it’s partly true there’s just not much left from each Living Story as it cycles out. I’m sort of used to seeing this though, as you can look at something else going today which has the same approach: Magic the Gathering.

I want this to work out, and think it could. But so far it’s been both improving in minor ways while looking lacking in other minor ways.

Anyway, I hope the gap of likes gets closed. For now, I can’t/won’t contribute due to distaste for Facebook.

Kain Francois.4328:

I blame the introduction of dragons and their corruption. It feels so shoehorned in and forced, that the original GW1 lore doesn’t even make sense.

You’re telling me gods simply didn’t know Zhaitan was underneath Orr? Even Abaddon and Lyssa?

We don’t know what Abaddon knew or what his plans were before he went completely crazy in the Realm of Torment. And after mortals went in there and took him down, the Six sort of began to fade back from activity even more than they had already.

Also worth pointing out the original GW1 lore had its issues also, especially as Nightfall started. So there’s this sixth god nobody ever mentioned because all references were expunged . . . except there’s this cult which remembers him and passes it down from generation to generation and suddenly the two previous villains were tools of this dead god . . .

draxynnic.3719:

That said, I do have a suspicion that the metaplot behind a lot of the Living Story is that the Inquest are trying to raise an army that can do that by supporting and uniting all of the enemy factions in Tyria.

No, I expect Modus Sceleri is doing it.

MasterfulGaze.4167:

I’ve seen the living story compared to books and movies several times. Guild Wars 1 gave me this feeling while I was playing it. The living story doesn’t give me this feeling at all.

It feels to me more like a TV show than a book or a movie.

I dunno, it feels a lot like the first five chapters of “A Game of Thrones” (the novel) in that it was taking a while to get somewhere after an initial teaser which got me interested. It reminds me of a lot of “doorstopper fantasy” or even Timothy Zahn, in a way. Slow build but there’s crucial parts in there nobody realizes is crucial until act three.

Nick.6972:

You could say “it’s objective” just about everything.

I believe the earth is flat – it’s still valid subjective opinion whether it’s wrong or not.

Hmmm, well I’ll bite. As a subjective opinion it’s quite valid. However as objective fact it’s wrong.

The trouble we’re in here talking about the stories is there is very little objective about it all without getting into a recitation of events and lines which . . . cannot be argued to be subjective at all. But how we perceive the lines and interpret what we see automatically moves into subjective territory.

If we want to look at the game as we would a work of art (and talking about the story, it seems clear we are), then it must be understood there is not many ways to talk about art objectively. Any time it’s tried, we wind up at the question “what is art” and then we have to disperse and reconvene at an underground coffee parlor somewhere nobody’s ever heard of.

I don’t think either game is more mature than the other, in terms of story. I think GW2 shares a lot with its predecessor in that it’ll get there eventually over time . . . three years, I’d say, but I hope for less. I think GW1 was an interesting game, but not (solely) for the rich and wonderful lore.

Kreslin.6832:

This is actually your personal opinion, your subjective opinion. You can tell about your personal feelings about the plot, but don’t run them into the facts.

I’d like to, but it seems a lot of people enjoy doing it when discussing things about Guild Wars 2. Though, I’ll also point out – all this discussion has been is subjective interpretations.

The reason the asura don’t rule the world is because they can’t work together very well as a whole race. Their intellectual egos are too big to permit moving in the same direction in the same manner as the charr did during the Searing. Which was the closest the charr ever came to ruling the world, and why I believe they’d have an easier time of it than the other current races.

Except maybe the sylvari, I’m not . . . sure I want to see where they are in another 250 years.

Nick.6972:

Yes.
Unfortunately, GW2 story is much, much more childish…

Given the T rating, and how badly game writing falters outside the M rating? It’s not surprising it’s simplistic. Childish, eh, I’ve seen much worse by intelligent and mature adults.

The Hobbit comes to mind.

ParnAshwind.4823:

I would “like” GW2 if I trust FB enough to create an account there =P

I would trust FB a lot more if prospective employers didn’t comb it for their applicants and try to see if anything embarrassing shows up. I barely trust Twitter, and that’s just to read it now and then and see what my friends are up to.

Also, I like GW2 just fine as a game. Which I put away now and then to pursue my true passions of Minecraft, Catan, making money at my job, Minecraft, Catan, and trying to find episodes of MasterChef Australia.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Those who live in the past don’t necessarily know more than those that live in the present.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

. . . you mean I’d have to play Ultima Online again? The Realm? Meridian 59? EverQuest?

Oh gods, no . . . not again. Losing a weekend camping for the Flowing Black Silk Sash or whatever vaunted piece of equipment there is this expansion. Having this awesome house location and being afraid to step out my door lest someone kill me from stealth on the doorstep. Really really bad balance. Really bad balance AND PvP anywhere. Really bad balance, PvP anywhere, and DIALUP . . .

Deamhan.9538:

And there is nothing worse than stupid things like “needles” or “spikes” which are just examples of the many grey items that serve no purpose other than to vendor. I’d rather just get the copper/silver directly.

That’s something the first game did too, more often. Freaking Aloe Roots, Charr Hides, Lodestones, Remains, Carapaces, Ruined Equipment, Baubles, Totems . . . They didn’t see much use until Nicholas and even then it was questionable.

. . . heck they weren’t even worth as much in comparison as the junk items accumulating in inventory NOW do :P

Caran.3217:

Nothing in GW2 is coming even remotely close to the GW story campaigns and lore.

The lore got butchered, twisted and mostly turned into nonsense fluff stuff. Tyria turned into a weirdo Science-Fantasy Zombie pseudo apocalypse (replace zombie with corrupted or possessed or whatever for different alien dragons). The complexity and depth of the personal story is suited for the comprehension level of below average IQ 12 year old…

Yes – vastly disappointed in that regard.

Prophecies was just as bad on release, and I will continue to say it. Prophecies was such a mess of cliche and standard stuff it was the blandest of the four original Guild Wars releases.

Factions was predictable and almost boring sometimes trying to get to the part you knew was coming.

Nightfall dragged in the middle, but was really well fleshed out in between the mission segments.

Eye of the North was relatively short comparatively, despite having characters I liked almost the best out of the four sets. (Pyre Fierceshot, Jora, and Kahmu can stay. Everyone else, get back in line.)

Guild Wars: Beyond had some of the best story work from that era. The Kryta Civil War, Winds of Change . . . and whatever you think, Hearts of the North had a decent attempt at focusing on two characters actually getting over themselves and settling together.

As for the Tyria of today?

I blame the charr, the sylvari, and the asura, for making it so uninteresting and dull. Why? Because in ascending order, those are who kitten me off the most the more I have to deal with them. (The charr get a pass most times, only because I remember back when they were less interesting and just barely-civilized punching bags for loot.)

We’ve had, what, four story parts so far?

- Frost and Flame
- Secret of Southsun / Last Stand at Southsun
- Dragon Bash / Sky Pirates of Tyria
- Bazaar of the Four Winds / Cutthroat Politics

And the last three are directly connected via the NPCs involved, the last four more directly, since there are aspects carrying through. We’re four chapters into whatever they have planned, and the fifth coming up looks like it’s a scene change of sorts.

I’ll say this much, it beats the story of Tunare’s Chosen from way back in the past games I played. But it doesn’t stand up to Guild Wars: Beyond in terms of . . . impact of feeling. I’m hoping improvements are in the way, but since there’s a huge mass of people involved? Inertia is involved.

I won’t be expecting a change very immediately.

Shiren.9532:

She’s a very one dimensional character and is almost always written as a goody two shoes with the cliché ‘tough chick’ thing GW2 does so often.

I’ll grant you the simplistic character thing, but the “tough chick” . . . I dunno, I always took it that was her “on-duty self”, with the problem being she never found the inclination to STOP being on duty. I . . . don’t know if she knows how to stop being Inspector Ellen Kiel of the Lionguard or Captain Ellen Kiel long enough to be “Ellen”.

As for the rest of your post, it’s worthy of thought but the problem? I don’t know how everyone seems to think one either must be masculine or feminine when you can just be someone. A strong female character doesn’t necessarily have to demonstrate femininity, to be a strong female character. She needs to be a strong character, who happens to be female.

The issue is, and it will always be for a while yet, is what each person thinks of when you say “strong female character”. Are you thinking Ellen Ripley (Alien)? Princess Leia (Star Wars)? Sarah Kerrigan (Starcraft)? How about Hermoine Granger (Harry Potter)? Are you thinking someone else, like Sarah Conner (Terminator), Kate Beckett (Castle)? River Song, Amy Pond, Sarah Jane? (Doctor Who)? Cersei Lannister, Arya Stark, Catelyn Stark (A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones)?

All of these listed here are strong characters, but for how many of them does “being a woman” matter, and to what magnitude? I know this got off topic, but really these questions are something to think about, not just toss off an answer for. There’s a bonus question too in there:

Does a character’s race, gender, sexuality (or lack thereof), rank, job . . . do these have to define a character, and are they required to be present for a “strong” character? Or do you just need a personality, a set of morals they follow, and some really good writing?

You know why they probably used that method?

Time constraints. They probably had this awesome scene put together where they used the terrain and active models to show off . . . and then discovered how much time was needed to be sure it worked with all possible models, armors (we do know there’s still clipping issues!) and so on . . .

That’s really what keeps coming up now and then. They had time issues getting this game ready. Why? I don’t know, probably a case of overreaching what time they had to spend . . .

WhiteDragon.5408:

I guess that means I’m the only one who didn’t like Tybalt

My street rat thief would have shoved him through the door and locked it behind him, then run.

My ranger, on the other hand was shouting “You know we can take them if you let me in! Tybalt! I killed this Tequatl thing last week, that thing isn’t a threat!”