Guild Wars 2

I’ll just try to leave the notes where they are, and maybe backlink if it becomes necessary. Just wondering if I missed the player housing bit. But to jump in:

The Lost Witch.7601:

1* What defines skill?

Something which requires some active effort to get instead of “stand here and autoattack”. In short, I need to do something actively instead of passively to obtain it. The skill level required (“Pull off a max combo on this DDR track” for instance) is something which some people will always find hard and others easy.

I suggest as a yardstick “SAB Tribulation Mode” is FAR TOO HARD while some daily achievements “Speak to a Laurel Vendor” is too simple. Extrapolate from there at your own risk.

2* Can skill not be bypassed by clever tricks? I know beating Tequatl with a Tequatl slaying guild isn’t particularly skillful for anyone but the organizer.

Still haven’t been able to get that done at ALL. And there will always be “clever tricks” to bypass things, so a counterquestion – is it permissible to allow them or is it better to try to anticipate them so there is no actual way to do it? IE, a jumping puzzle in the open world designed so portals CANNOT be used?

3* What percentage of the playerbase do you imagine can be called ‘skilled’? And how would it feel to not be part of that?

I feel the attempt to discern an average skill level of players is irrelevant, and it needs to simply be a scale from “dead simple” (just do a simple action, such as “talk to this NPC”) to “I Want To Be The Ghostly Hero” (theoretically possible but realisticaly unlikely, such as “Win ten rounds in a row in sPvP solo” or “earn Yakslapper within two weeks”).

4* Can skillful farmers outspeed regular farmers? And by how much? And if there is a perceived gate of how much investment it should take to get a particular thing, will this be off for the slower farmers?

The question becomes irrelevant if it can be done only once per character and not repeated for any reward.

However, dedicated and skilled farmers in the open world can often allow less skilled players to “piggyback” on their success. I don’t count farming of this nature to be a problem per se, it becomes a problem if it is exclusive instead of inclusive (only the farmer gets rewards for doing it, and nobody else can benefit).

For example? Someone doing jumping puzzles in a daily route but not assisting others versus someone doing it with a mesmer and dropping portals at the end for people to share in the rewards.

5* Will the hardcore players be the most skillful and thereby gain more riches because they don’t have to spend money on things that they can pay for with a skillbased currency? And will this increase the gap between the hardcore and the casual? How will this reflect on the economy?

Hardcore players will be more skillful on the basis of having repeated things often enough to get the method and routine down. That’s something which CANNOT be worked around short of time-gating. (From what I read every week, the whole community hates time-gates.)

Of course it will reflect on hardcore versus casual, if and only if the benefits are incredibly unbalanced and required to be obtained. And it will only impact the economy if and only if the results could be sold. Either through the TP or through “give me 5 gold and I’ll run you through it”.

6* And how will the established difference between skilled and not skilled content affect the playerbase psychologically? If you failed at doing something that is apparently not even rewarding the skillcurrency.. what does that make you?

A social problem and one which is incredibly hard to deal with or stop. Because this is the internet, and thus trolls and “Stop Having Fun Guys” (TVTropes link not included for courtesy) will always find ways of just making fun of the “scrubs and n00blets”.

Knowman.8764:

There are these obnoxious, Gigantic Green Arrows that incessantly pester you (me at the moment) in Divinity’s Reach. I assume they are pointing to the perfectly obvious green star that denotes your / my “personal story.”

I haven’t (and will not) bother following them due to the fact that they utterly ruin the experience of the game. You are reduced to shutting off your brain and simply pressing your mouse button while being lead somewhere, I assume to your “personal story” point of continuance.

I’m really enjoying the game but this is like being poked in the eye, is there anything can be done about it? Anyone else bothered by this? ANet could at least make the arrows discreet like all the other icons and assists in the game. Thanks for any comments or suggestions.

If I recall, they stop after you complete a fair amount of the personal story. About where it assumes you’ve finished the “learn to play” bits, which I recall to be the first two pieces. I could be wrong, it’s been ages since I finished it on my main and I don’t really pay attention on my alts.

An option to “Enable/Disable Personal Story tracking” would be nice though, would also let people remove the item from the quest tracker too. Heck, then add one for Living Story and we’d be good.

Having trouble jumping in here, what’s the current discussion topic on Character Progression, please?

mesme.5028:

“Everything you loved about gw” I loved that i could get max armor on a lvl5.

I loved selling Droknar runs so you could do that.

It fed into my Miniatures habit.

TooBz.3065:

What I meant was, discuss the direction of the game. What you hoped it would be and how it’s lived up to your hopes or fallen short.

I’ll try to be brief. I’ll also address individual “hopes” and how they either met them or disappointed, and how it could be addressed in turn.

I was hoping it would be something like Guild Wars 1 where I could pick it up and put it down at my leisure, and it would always be where I left it off so I could . . . say . . . get kittened off at Eternal Grove all over again and take a week off and things would still be there for me to go back to. Mostly, this is what I got . . . except in the finer details. If I don’t do a zone when it’s hot and people are actually there, I might not be able to do completion due to things being left to overrun the map. I cannot do this to the Living Story, though I kind of accepted that much like I couldn’t do it in GW1 to Wintersday or Mad King events. some things you just gotta decide if you really really want to do it.

I was hoping the gameplay would live up to trailer videos in being more active and easier to control than GW1 skills could be. For instance, being able to free-target an AoE instead of needing to center it on a moving target. I mostly got what I wanted here, since I find things more engaging than the combat in GW1 and more within my power. The addition of a Z axis which does not break targeting issues (a la old EQ on release) also is exactly in the realm of what I’d hoped for. Underwater combat is still either tediously simple or difficult depending on what class and what targets I’m working with, though.

I was hoping I wouldn’t need to spend money to play the game, as anymore promising a monthly allotment of funds for a game isn’t appealing to me. Holding aside a fraction of my “entertainment budget” for a month just in case something neat shows up, however, is entirely what I’d want. So far this is a place GuildWars 2 hasn’t changed at all. I don’t have to fork over $10/month just to stay in the game, and there isn’t anything purchased with Gems I really feel a burning need for. (Yes, this includes Gems to Gold – I don’t need it.)

I’m flexible on other expectations but I went into GW2 pretty much with those big three and the understanding if I hated it then it was no worse than spending the money on Final Fantasy 54 and being disappointed.

Mint Rain.6798:

Promote productivity. Some of you are already doing this but I encourage the rest of you to do it. That way, these threads stop getting so much overlook because of whining, and may actually get reviewed and tips even taken.

Right.

Here’s what I’d hope for in player housing, and think this would be a good basis for people to actually enjoy the option of it.

First. Give me an instanced house, so that it doesn’t take up in-game real estate like UO’s housing did. Allow me to drop a marker or something so people could be invited into my house, but it wouldn’t need to be tied to a specific location X other people might have assigned to them. In fact, it should be something which could be upgraded over time from simple small space to a mansion.

Secondly. Allow me some personalization, and something which makes achievement hunting worthwhile. For instance, for my slayer achievements I can have a trophy room showing them off in various stages of “neat” to “that’s awesome” depending on which of the four ranks I’ve completed. Or let me have a “workshop” which picks up increasingly notable tools or workbenches based on my crafting achievements. Let me get banners hung for some of the other achievements, such as a Vigil Banner if I have completed the personal story to the point I’m a full member.

Note this is where a lot of the work could be sunk into it, and while it would be a daunting list it would probably take about as much time as a full month of Living Story update work.

Third. Allow me to use some crafting materials and skills to improve things. Let there be an “artisan” NPC or somesuch I can go to and hand over . . . say . . . 1 gold and 50 Bolts of Silk and my bedroom will have drapes I can have made to a dye channel or two I currently own. (Make use of that dye collection!) In this case, going back to the artisan would let you remake it without needing to spend on the curtains being made again. Get the picture? Allow me some real customization in a modular manner of furniture.

Fourth. Take the whole journal idea from the personal story record and tie it to a writing desk or something. Now add entries for Living Story chapters where at least one achievement was completed (to measure if the player actually took part and thus the character would know). If the meta achievement was completed, a second page is added with, say, hidden text. Be it plot related (notes on Scarlet’s ramblings, recounting about the Nightmare Chamber contents) or just plain funny (complaints about Hobo-Tron, commentary about how the Labyrinthine Cliffs were very dangerous to navigate….)

Fifth. Get the idea of “PvE Locker” for skins and make use of it. There’s a closet or chest somewhere in the house where you can go and pull out weapon skins you’ve stored there. Add a salvage option from non-basic kits where you can “Convert to blueprint” or something similar and you can store them in your house to remove later and apply to a weapon which you really like the stats of but is godawful in appearance (Orrian stuff, for instance). Heck, break this off into “part two” of a month of Living Story where you introduce housing.

Lastly. All these things? Don’t initially tie anything to the Gem Store other than cosmetic options. I know it’s tempting to sell upgrades to the home through it but unless the change doesn’t add function, don’t do it.

Mars.6319:

Ya, you’re right!

Except Nexon did in fact buy a large amount of NCSoft stock around the same time that a former Nexon employee took over an important position in ANet. None of that is conjecture.

But who knows, maybe the person who ran Maplestory hates Maplestory’s cash shop and prefers GW1 but she’s being overruled by Colin Johanson because he had a change of heart. Yeah. That seems likely. Let’s go with that.

sigh

You’re doing it again. Far more appealing is an idea you could get Nexon on insider trading thanks to a former employee becoming part of a company they later bought massively into. But, hey, that’s not about how the cash shop in Guild Wars 2 obviously is pay to win. I mean look at the massive amounts of game breaking benefits you can buy for Gems out of the shop.

Mars.6319:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Mars.6319:

Seriously, man.. $700 MILLION DOLLARS investment within 3 months of her hiring and Nexon has no say in what goes on? You’d have an easier time convincing me that pigs can actually fly.

One word. Trebuchet.

Also, it should be noted you have no idea if they have no say, or not, and they probably can’t straight tell you one way or the other due to it being an internal matter. Though at this point it’s like running up to someone and asking them if their spouse has stopped beating them yet.

Ah, my bad, so Nexon invested so much money into NCSoft that they became NCSoft’s largest shareholder but didn’t exercise any power to influence NCSoft’s games. They were just like, “HERE IS OUR MONEY, DO AS YOU WOULD!” and ANet was like, well.. kitten GW1, let’s make GW2 grindy with pay walls.

Keep throwing conjecture at the walls, I’m sure something will stick. Also, stop baiting people to try arguing with you. NOBODY knows what’s going on there who can likely say “yes, it’s true” or “no, it’s false”.

premie.9714:

This game has the potential, but unless anet puts the work into new permanent content, I can’t see it going much further.

I know they look at the forums, they know people are getting tired of LS and want expansion type content.

I’m not tired of the Living Story. I’m more tired of tight timeframes to finish some of those “meta achievements”, and more annoying bits bleeding into WvW. Seriously, those toxic offshoots were just a huge nuisance, making it a little difficult to handle mercenary camps in Eternal Battlegrounds.

. . . oh, and I’m still through with Zojja. Until she is dropped in The Desolation with no canteen or toolkits, in one of the sulfur pits, I might have to contemplate adding asura to the list.

First Ascalon, then Rata Sum.

Mars.6319:

Seriously, man.. $700 MILLION DOLLARS investment within 3 months of her hiring and Nexon has no say in what goes on? You’d have an easier time convincing me that pigs can actually fly.

One word. Trebuchet.

Also, it should be noted you have no idea if they have no say, or not, and they probably can’t straight tell you one way or the other due to it being an internal matter. Though at this point it’s like running up to someone and asking them if their spouse has stopped beating them yet.

Kindeller.3072:

Why can’t SAB stay permanently? I don’t understand its got no ties to the living story right? it was just a feature content addition and yet they still removed it? -.-

Probably because it was an April Fool’s Day related thing which was incredibly popular for being entertaining. I don’t expect it was planned as anything other than a fun diversion from things.

Not a permanent fixture for the game to have in it. Just a recurring one.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The only places where such an angle is possible with a group of asura gates that I can think of would be Gate Hub Plaza in LA, or one of the three corners in Rata Sum.

Edit: Scratch Rata Sum, those are all blocked by trees and structures.

All other gates I can think of which has at least 2 near each other in the game would be in Fort Trinity, but that has a blocked off sight, and Ulta Metamagicals in Brisban, which is also blocked off sight. There are the WvW gates, but those are of a different design.

No other place I can think of has multiple gates next to each other.

Looks like Scarlet’s going to attack Lion’s Arch. Or we get a brand new area/heavily altered area.

There’s also the Coriolis plaza with the inactive Gates, isn’t there?

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

There will be plenty of people unhappy with whatever they release after Scarlet is gone.

With that being said, bring on the SAB. Nao.

Edit: Didn’t the “majority of people” enjoy Bazaar of the Four Winds? I didn’t see many complaints about it. It was one of my favorites :P

There were complaints.

There are complaints about the SAB too, not relating to the groin-punching difficulty of World 2.

Galrenmar.7025:

Bagel.4598:

Yes this game does force you to acquire ascended gear to participate in Fractals.

I’ll just step in and point out a word that’s being thrown around, in my opinion, a bit too freely:

‘Forced’.

Nobody is ‘forcing’ you to do anything. You’re not ‘forced’ to run Fractals if you don’t want to. You’re not ‘forced’ to hunt for Ascended gear if you feel the effort isn’t worth the reward.

You may want Ascended gear; if you do, you’ll have to run Fractals to get it. That may seem an annoyance, but you are not, at any point, forced to run Fractals — or do anything at all — if you feel that it’s not worth your time.

Careful with that semantic loophole, friend. It’s not appreciated since it’s loved to be met with a rebuttal of “but I don’t HAVE to play the game either” or other such extensions of “forced/have”.

It’s thrown around because people feel forced, rather than being forced. The very existence of Ascended demands they chase after it, for whatever reasons they choose to name, or choose to keep to themselves. The point is, they feel they need it.

But I offer a deal: I’ll stop trying to browbeat them over it as soon as the ones who say they have to have it can bring themselves to admit it’s unnecessary to do any PvE content outside of Fractals, and has no impact on sPvP. Desired, but not necessary.

Zaxares.5419:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Asudementio.8526:

Zaxares.5419:

Silly Evon. If you truly care that much about Lion’s Arch, bring your concerns to Ellen and work WITH her. The two of you together could do so much more to safeguard your city than nursing your grudges separately.

P.S. I STILL haven’t gotten my Black Lion tickets in your chests, Evon. You’re still not getting my vote.

Typical, a kiel supporter expects a bribe for their vote.

Expecting a bribe from someone who gave them out liberally? Who’d have thought

Indeed. Have people so quickly forgotten the initial voting tokens AND the gift of silver that Evon mailed each and every one of us? SURELY all the citizens of Tyria are fine, intelligent, upstanding individuals who wouldn’t allow that to influence our vote, right?

. . . should have been a Precursor like Dawn or Dusk.

Tharen.5268:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

gambits

(quoting parts of threads is difficult on this forum!)

I think implementing gambits for both dungeons and fractals would be a relatively small change that can really positively impact the game.

In lieu of new content, it’d actually be a good substitute — personally, I’d prefer it over the “usual” LS content we’ve been getting. There was some rumors of gambits being datamined a while back but I’m wondering now if that was just the instabilities that showed up in the new fractal patch; if so, that’s a big opportunity to freshen up the game that I think Anet missed.

I’d say “hasn’t seen yet” instead of “missed”. Missed implies the opportunity is past

I’m going to completely agree here. I, for one, am sick and tired of the “Living Story” updates, which are their “consistent content updates” every 2 weeks with mediocre ANYTHING at best with more achievements wrapped into them to try and promote some type of interest. It just gets old. I’m not sure why, but the game has seemingly lost it’s luster from the original Guild Wars, where I could log in every day and not become bored out of my mind with repetitive random events and grinding for items.

The other thing this game really makes me a tad upset by is the sheer lack of creativity when it comes to skills for each profession. Where in the world did this creativity wander off to? I know it’s not the staff – as they were able to create GW1, and that held my interest for YEARS.

Maybe I’m just another QQ’er – but I’m not trying to come off that way. I just don’t understand why they couldn’t implement successful strategies and gameplay mechanics from one game to the next…

@ Tobias – I completely agree with you as well. The opportunity is still here. I am WAITING for them to get on with it. Frankly if they implemented newer, more in-depth skills and world activities I’d still play the crap out of this game….and it’s so pretty.

I actually agree with your assessment of the Living Story not quite being good. EXCEPT I really did like the latest duo of updates with the Tower. It may have been lukewarm story-wise but I really enjoyed it.

. . . not so much it’s effect on WvW Season 1.

Nike.2631:

I have to wonder if car manufacturers regularly get hounded over the contents of a 5 year old commercial.

Maybe over the Toyota Hilux? I mean, that thing got some notice . . .

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

gambits

(quoting parts of threads is difficult on this forum!)

I think implementing gambits for both dungeons and fractals would be a relatively small change that can really positively impact the game.

In lieu of new content, it’d actually be a good substitute — personally, I’d prefer it over the “usual” LS content we’ve been getting. There was some rumors of gambits being datamined a while back but I’m wondering now if that was just the instabilities that showed up in the new fractal patch; if so, that’s a big opportunity to freshen up the game that I think Anet missed.

I’d say “hasn’t seen yet” instead of “missed”. Missed implies the opportunity is past

Sariel V.7024:

Keyce.8137:

I don’t doubt that if Evon won the election, Kiel would have done the exact same thing and grumbled about Evon being interested in Fractals (remember he promised to show us Abbadon) and something else about his actions in Tyria.

Which raises a question… since Kiel’s Thaumanova research primary REAL purpose was to show Scarlet’s involvement there, would she have been shown to be present in Evon’s Abaddon fractal (via time travel or some other McGuffin)?

You mean a macguffin like the Fractals’ Mistlock Observatory? Probably. Can’t be sure except if we went back in time and fixed it

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lord Kuru.3685:

I’m not saying that they will someday in the future increase the grind. I’m saying they will start the infusion grind soon — within months and that those holding out for real content are just wasting their time.

Plausible. Especially if they do any work on Fractals to tweak or add new things into it at higher levels. Though I suspect those infusions would be for higher AR values rather than statistics.

Also, don’t Ascended armors lack normal upgrade slots? As a sort of balancing factor against Exotics, where you can use a set of six Superior runes to achieve a large bonus on each piece?

Ascended weapons/armor do have sigil/rune slots and infusion slots.

Really? Crap. I don’t have the armor (and probably won’t) and never really looked at the weapon.

Anet will definitely increase AR values for the infusion slots when they increase the max fractal level — I believe the original intention of fractals was to have it be a vertical game mode for those who like that, so I accept that (though IMO the whole AR business is stupid and Anet should move the fractals more toward using player chosen gambits — just like the Queen’s Gauntlet — to increase difficulty).

I expect that revision may actually be something which could be considered. Or to say it right “should be considered”. Definitely better than numerically advancing requiring multiple trips through Mossman Country.

I hate that place. I really, really do.

I find it hard to believe Anet won’t pass up the opportunity to increase stats in those slots. My guess: they’ll do it slowly, on the order of a few months per increase. Max stats now is +5 for each slot. Next will be +7, then +10, etc.

I find it hard to believe they won’t increase either. You know, on an order of “ever ever in the future history of the game”. I just would say it’d be likely timed in concurrence with revamps to Fractals or a significantly challenging other place to fight in where Agony is present.

(Like Isle of Janthir. Or special event Fractals added alongside the basic stuff.)

Kevan.8912:

@Tobias.

Here we go again:

BiS = need it. no escape from it.

Don’t need it, don’t want it, see no point to it beyond riding the bleeding edge of stats. Which won’t help me anyway. Escaped it! Where’s my achievement points?

if ascended doesn’t count at all, why to introduce it?

Don’t know, and not the person who can answer that question. Stop asking me to make conjectures on other peoples’ motives when you already question them (veracity and motive) in the first place.

stats are relevant also outside the fractals.

Not relevant in sPvP, unnecessary in PvE when it’s far easier to throw more people at something, and WvW is such a weird hybrid it’s difficult to judge just how effective it is.

Though if they made Ascended-quality arrow carts . . .

so, please, if you don’t feel that you need to use them, fine.
but don’t try to teach ppl how to feel about it.

That’s not what I’m trying to do here, what I’m trying to do is . . . once more . . . point out this is a meaningless chase meant for those who want something to chase, and it was said to be a “more long term goal”. It’s not required, it’s not necessary, and yet people keep using the word “forced”.

I would like, but am unlikely to get, people to admit it’s not a fault of the game they feel forced to get the shinies, but in their method. I could care less about it being “right” or “wrong”. My “right” way of playing is to play the second most useless ranger build which exists and use pets which don’t make sense. To very very many others (and I’ve got screenshots somewhere archived to prove so) it’s intolerably “wrong”.

its purpose is to be a need and the way to convince ppl to grind for them is exactly that increase of stats you consider subtle.
it is demonstrated by the fact that only cosmetic upgrade ( if we trust all supporters’ words) would not be enough for making people login, spend time and money on them.
only a gear stats progression could do it.

Careful there with the absolute statements.

I support this game by playing it . . . albeit very rarely due to network instability currently, and the computer I normally use having developed post-Xmas issues . . . but I don’t support ALL the decisions the company makes, nor blindly assume their choices are the best.

I expect there are a number of people who were playing this game craving something long-term to build towards for prestige and Legendaries just didn’t fit the bill . . . especially since you could sell them on Black Lion. (I seem to recall this was somewhat of a big deal to people.)

So I suspect Ascended was made as a personal goal for your characters to achieve which could not be purchased outright and would require an investment of time to earn. In short, you wanted to wear the pink named gear, you had to put the time into earning it.

. . . and boy, it failed. Spectacularly. Not only have people pretty much responded with “god that’s ugly” (not what you want to hear when cosmetics are a big reason to go seeking stuff), people have gotten up in arms about “it’s in the game now I have to have it” and the time investment being so incredible . . .

We reach that whole “I am forced to grind for this” statement. Which is where the big part of this failure of execution is seated.

so, how can it be important only for those who are supposed to care about it (and asked for it), and be unnecessary for those who don’t like them (and are now flaming against it)?

How can people care so intensely about WvW standings they want to bounce people who are interested more in “Da Karma Train” than PPT coexist with those who just want to do it for the challenge of good fights? Or coexist with those who couldn’t give a skritt’s left butt cheek if WvW ceased to exist at all?

choose one faction.
ascended are worthless, or ascended are worth.
or: just admit that it depends on one’s needs, and so it’s a waste of time, and incoherent, trying to convince ppl who hate them to ignore their existence

I like Kurzick as a faction. Sorry, I just have a thing for petrified wood forests, not to mention there was definitely a dislike for Irukandji floating around making things difficult. Sure it meant putting up with dredge but they usually weren’t an issue.

If you want me to pick a predetermined philosophy, you really need to stop laying into me for wanting people to own up on the source of their “need”. You have just tried to tell me what I should be thinking.

i think it’s quite obvious.

It is. I don’t care who hates Ascended with the fiery passion of Primordius during mating season. I care if the “why” is a load of centaur droppings and they want to tell me it’s Vabbian Delight.

Bagel.4598:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

And laboring once more to get back ON topic:

Bagel.4598:

Most of the comments in this thread are way off topic and are in retaliation to whoever started it.
My issue in this thread is not with ascended gear but with the nerfed rewards based on experience and numbers after an update with which they claimed the rewards were improved.

I’m wondering if this is a result of RNG distribution not favoring you as far as the weapon drops, or if it’s a situation like “Final Rest” where there is a bug in the code or it otherwise wasn’t implemented correctly.

In short: bad luck or bad code? Equally likely.

Only ANet could know.

Here’s hoping they look at it. Start compiling data across several hundred people and several hundred runs and check the curve, then come back and present your data.

And with that, my contributions here are done

Lord Kuru.3685:

I’m not saying that they will someday in the future increase the grind. I’m saying they will start the infusion grind soon — within months and that those holding out for real content are just wasting their time.

Plausible. Especially if they do any work on Fractals to tweak or add new things into it at higher levels. Though I suspect those infusions would be for higher AR values rather than statistics.

Also, don’t Ascended armors lack normal upgrade slots? As a sort of balancing factor against Exotics, where you can use a set of six Superior runes to achieve a large bonus on each piece?

And laboring once more to get back ON topic:

Bagel.4598:

Most of the comments in this thread are way off topic and are in retaliation to whoever started it.
My issue in this thread is not with ascended gear but with the nerfed rewards based on experience and numbers after an update with which they claimed the rewards were improved.

I’m wondering if this is a result of RNG distribution not favoring you as far as the weapon drops, or if it’s a situation like “Final Rest” where there is a bug in the code or it otherwise wasn’t implemented correctly.

In short: bad luck or bad code? Equally likely.

Bagel.4598:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Bagel.4598:

I understand that your argument is based off a technicality. There is no dispute that you can physically do Fractals without any ascended equipment.
But we are not talking about a literal block to do Fractals, we are talking about a vertical grind that we must go through, in order to complete further in areas of the dungeon.
That would be like locking you out of Fireheart rise and saying, “ok you’ve done some of the map, so yes you can do hearts and what not. However you need to be wearing exotics before you can complete this higher level area for better rewards”.
You cannot make a game on the basis that it is not grindy, and then implement rewards, cosmetic or otherwise, and tell people they can only acquire it if the participate in the grind.

Yes you can. Guild Wars 1 was such a game. And people seem to have really liked it.

Incorrect, you could sell those cosmetics.

. . . you could sell Obsidian Armor? After it had been made? Why did nobody ever tell me this?! It changes everything!

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Hardly a “hidden” ploy. It’s clearly their new business model. They want to get as close to play-to-win as possible but still far enough away that there’ll still be white knights saying that “you don’t have to…”

Did you mean “pay to win” or “play to win”, because it’s really hard to win games you don’t play. Unless that Vabbian Prince really is trying to find me with loads of rubies and diamonds . . .

Yeah, I meant “pay-to-win” (edited now) …. big difference that one letter makes.

Okay, now we have a discussion.

And the important question I was going to ask until spotting that typo . . . what exactly are you “winning”?

Bagel.4598:

I understand that your argument is based off a technicality. There is no dispute that you can physically do Fractals without any ascended equipment.
But we are not talking about a literal block to do Fractals, we are talking about a vertical grind that we must go through, in order to complete further in areas of the dungeon.
That would be like locking you out of Fireheart rise and saying, “ok you’ve done some of the map, so yes you can do hearts and what not. However you need to be wearing exotics before you can complete this higher level area for better rewards”.
You cannot make a game on the basis that it is not grindy, and then implement rewards, cosmetic or otherwise, and tell people they can only acquire it if the participate in the grind.

Yes you can. Guild Wars 1 was such a game. And people seem to have really liked it.

Bagel.4598:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Bagel.4598:

All you’re doing is replying with false snide remarks in an attempt to hide the fact that 99% of the people in this thread rightfully disagree with you.
Learn to accept when you are wrong.

Ah, sorry, being disagreed with doesn’t make you wrong. Otherwise you’d be wrong when you pop into threads where you’re in the minority of opinions.

Also, your comment is valid. If you gotta disagree, have some substance to it.

When you’re posting in threads saying this game doesnt force you to acquire ascended gear, when an area of the game REQUIRES you to have ascended gear to hold infusions, you are wrong.
Disagreeing doesn’t directly relate to opinions, in this case disagreeing is not conforming to someone’s falsely perceived game mechanics.

Yes and no. He had a valid point, it just was not near the context of the topic. Your complaint and point is valid, also. But we’re getting off topic talking about it being off topic. I’m gonna stop before there’s a flag on the play.

Bagel.4598:

Yes this game does force you to acquire ascended gear to participate in Fractals.

High level Fractals, due to Agony. Low level, “entry level” if you prefer, you don’t need Ascended Gear. Unless that’s changed since I got bored with the lack of variety in Fractals.

The argument against this comment I’m replying to is, by the way: “You can still do the entry level Fractals 1-10 with no Ascended and thus no Agony Resist. Thus you can see the content without actually requiring the gear you find it difficult to acquire. It does however mean you won’t be getting further, but as most of the rewards past that are cosmetic or more Ascended stuff, perhaps it is not really necessary to ‘enjoy’ Fractals.”

I still don’t enjoy Fractals, primarily because it was almost always the Swamp Fractal which killed all momentum and patience.

fadeaway.2807:

Volkon makes idiotic defenses of arenanet’s failing of the manifesto in every thread possible.
It’s not worth talking to him about it. Fanboy.

We all know there’s a grind.

There’s always a grind, in every game, ever. EVER. I could make a case for almost every game to be a grind, or have grind in it. That’s not the point anywhere near the topic of the top post.

Meanwhile, back on topic . . .

The top post is pretty much just asking for Fractal Weapons to be increasingly more available the higher you go. I’m not convinced this request is entirely out of line. I am concerned following through could actually have consequences which may cause the prestige value to drop like a rock.

Bagel.4598:

All you’re doing is replying with false snide remarks in an attempt to hide the fact that 99% of the people in this thread rightfully disagree with you.
Learn to accept when you are wrong.

Ah, sorry, being disagreed with doesn’t make you wrong. Otherwise you’d be wrong when you pop into threads where you’re in the minority of opinions.

Also, your comment is valid. If you gotta disagree, have some substance to it.

TooBz.3065:

VOLKON.1290:

Bagel.4598:

VOLKON.1290:

Ah, we’ve finally devolved into conspiracy mode.

And thus dies the thread.

Ah our arguments have finally been defeated left right and centre and another point that I can’t defend comes up. Better switch to tragic response mode.

You’re changing the argument to a conspiracy theory, then claiming victory? Well… ok, nothing to see here folks.

I agree with VOLKON (see I’m not always contrary). When ANet wants us to buy gems, they aren’t subtle.

They trot out the unlimited gathering tools or put the Digital Deluxe on sale (again), or bank expansion tabs, or half a dozen other things.

Is it weird there were complaints to this when the Xunlai Expansions went from potentially having 4 bank tabs to 8? Including claims of “pay to win”?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Hardly a “hidden” ploy. It’s clearly their new business model. They want to get as close to play-to-win as possible but still far enough away that there’ll still be white knights saying that “you don’t have to…”

Did you mean “pay to win” or “play to win”, because it’s really hard to win games you don’t play. Unless that Vabbian Prince really is trying to find me with loads of rubies and diamonds . . .

Kevan.8912:

why do i care if they know my opinions?
i want anet and other players to know my opinion. period.
isnt it a good reason for writing on a game’s forum?
i think you are writing to make others know your opinion. it’s the first purpose of communication.

No, the first purpose of communication on the Internet is to feel superior to everyone else. Especially on some forums. Don’t worry, I’m already aware by choosing to stick with the ranger as my main I’m disqualified from the awesome

But my point is more this: if you’re sure you aren’t being considered or listened to, or that the other party is just going to do things regardless of your input, why do you expect your input to have any impact? If you “know” you’re being lied to constantly, why think it’s going to change just because you called them out on it? Why start ultimatums about how it needs to change or else, when you place claims about them not caring about what the players think?

It just boggles me when I see it, here, or RL-side. (“I know these products you sell are crap, even though you tell me how good they are. So sell me something which isn’t crap.”)

“Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned. Nor hell a fury like a gamer scorned.”

definitely yes. many of us loved gw2. waited years for it.
it’s hatred and scorn. not only against anet, but also against people who try to silence you or to prove your feelings wrong.
don’t care if anet ignores our opinions. don’t care if it’s probabily a waste of time because nothing will change.
“don’t like it? don’t play it” is redundant. already done.
the same for all of you: like the game? keep playing without trying to convince the others that you like it.

I just want the people who stopped playing and have no intention of coming back to stop posting about how they quit and have no intention of coming back.

Asudementio.8526:

Zaxares.5419:

Silly Evon. If you truly care that much about Lion’s Arch, bring your concerns to Ellen and work WITH her. The two of you together could do so much more to safeguard your city than nursing your grudges separately.

P.S. I STILL haven’t gotten my Black Lion tickets in your chests, Evon. You’re still not getting my vote.

Typical, a kiel supporter expects a bribe for their vote.

Expecting a bribe from someone who gave them out liberally? Who’d have thought

Silicato.4603:

ok, so we should agree that there is a lot of information about her past. All that “Could be a reformed criminal or something” is out of place. People know her and like her more than Evon. Just that simple.

Eh, don’t go too far the other way :P (Also, it’s known she was a rescued child much the same way we know of Evon’s stand against his warband – through short stories which may or may not be acceptable as true accounts of what happened.)

What we should agree on is simply this – they introduced Kiel and a fair amount of players had already met her before. We’d worked with her before. In contrast, Evon had just shouldered his way into the diplomatic mission and started posturing. This is where I can agree the odds were stacked, in that presentation suggested one was more “on the level” than the other.

And it still was close :P

Lord Kuru.3685:

Lots of people here are deluding themselves into thinking that “Ascended will be it — the last bit of stuff to grind and then we’ll start getting quality content.” But there’s no way that’s true. As I said, infusion slot stat grind will almost certainly come next.

That’s not what my “delusion” is. My “delusion” is they understand exactly how badly they pushed things with Ascended and aren’t in a rush to do any further pushing.

But “never” is a long time, and “will come eventually” is almost a sucker’s bet against. All of eternity is a long time for things to not change, and all it takes is one step telegraphed any number of months/years in the future to get “SEE WE WERE RIGHT! GEAR TREADMILL!” to be plastered everywhere.

So really? I think my attitude is best for this. If it’s not fun, avoid it. Nobody is going to CARE if you don’t play anymore or why . . . especially if you think ANet is out to get you or betray your trust. I mean, if you assume that, why do you care if they know your opinions?

Sirendor.1394:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Harper.4173:

VOLKON.1290:

Anyone remember the very first time we got to step foot in Tyria… it was either the first public beta or right before that… the mobs were tough. I never died so many times in the starter zones in any game’s PvE ever, and I loved it! Absolutely loved it. You really had to pay attention, learn the combat, etc in order to survive. I’d love to see that come back… nothing would “fix” the non-broken combat system more than scenarios that require you to use a far greater extent of the combat to survive. Give the mobs more skills, make them tougher, give them abilities that shatter stationary “press 1” zerkers who aren’t paying attention like so many glass butterflies.

Combat is fine. I see combat being quite fine in WvW against thinking targets. We just need more aspects of the game to require you to actually use your skills and do so wisely.

I was there on BWE 1 – and I don’t remember any of this. The mobs were sort of like they are today. I powered through the content like there was no tomorrow.

Metrica Province Fire Elemental.

Utterly LETHAL early on but the longer it went on the more people understood “don’t stand in the red rings” and “DO NOT REVIVE ON THE BRIDGE!” . . . still got hit with a nerf stick at least once.

Some got hit by the nerf stick, some didn’t. Most content was easy to me in betas already. I guess only solution is… to go play a new game whose mechanics I didn’t master yet, since judging by responses here everyone is just fine with how easy and skill-less this game’s combat is. sigh

I’m not fine with it, but I also realize if the skill potential was raised for combat I very . . . very . . . likely would not be able to actually play if I had any lag at all or was for some reason distracted and not focused.

On the other hand, I find in WvW I actually do have that challenging feeling of needing to pay attention and react instinctively to things rather than think about it. More often than not I wind up making this lovely impression of my face on the ground during heated battles.

As much as I like the idea of skill-related combat where it requires you to be in sync to succeed, I absolutely could not and would not play a game in which that was the base metric for success. I stopped playing DMC3 and similar games because I simply reached a point where the combat required more of me than I could actually give.

Aeonblade.8709:

I wish they would stop with the crafting addiction. The crafting system in this game is awful and tedious. I think people should be able to craft the best gear in the game, but I don’t think they should force people to craft for anything. Crafting has been an option in every game I have played till this point, and I’m not thrilled by the fact if I want the best gear I have to waste my time on crafting, which is not why I play.

I find it easier to just not worry about ascended stuff until we get more avenues to actually obtain the gear reliably.

I think people should be able to craft the best gear also. At the same time I think there should be other means of obtaining it. Again I find myself saying this about Ascended – there really needed to be a long look at how it would be released and how the obtaining methods would be integrated. It was not well-implemented and this could have been better done.

Also, I actually like the crafting system here in comparison to the previous game (“Let’s find an artisan who makes the tier two components I need”) though it still has its share of tedium. Almost every MMO crafting procedure I’ve played around with has had tedium involved if you want to use it for serious work, and even non-MMOs have had that experience with me.

At some point I hope they look at their crafting system and try to figure out something to relieve that tedium. I don’t think it can be, since anything relatively novel is going to devolve into tedium once it is repetitive enough.

The comment on crafting cheerfully lifted from an article from ages ago:

( Link here )

" I’m just not fond of crafting as a system. There are two main reasons for this. First, for most professions you need drops from monsters to craft. In some cases you need A LOT of drops. To the point you have to go murder monsters and grind out materials for a few hours. Only Jeweler can progress without monster drops, but you need gems that randomly generate from harvest nodes. For most of my characters, I’m sitting on a bunch of basic crafting materials (leather, cloth, ore, etc), but I’m missing the bits and pieces from monsters necessary to craft items. "

Pretty much the same for me – crafting is nice as an option. I find it is sometimes . . . rarely . . . a viable option to get geared. More often than not it hasn’t been as useful as just playing and hoping for loot. Really looking forward to seeing a crafting procedure in an MMO which isn’t tedious, is useful, AND makes some kind of sense internal to the world logic.

Harper.4173:

VOLKON.1290:

Anyone remember the very first time we got to step foot in Tyria… it was either the first public beta or right before that… the mobs were tough. I never died so many times in the starter zones in any game’s PvE ever, and I loved it! Absolutely loved it. You really had to pay attention, learn the combat, etc in order to survive. I’d love to see that come back… nothing would “fix” the non-broken combat system more than scenarios that require you to use a far greater extent of the combat to survive. Give the mobs more skills, make them tougher, give them abilities that shatter stationary “press 1” zerkers who aren’t paying attention like so many glass butterflies.

Combat is fine. I see combat being quite fine in WvW against thinking targets. We just need more aspects of the game to require you to actually use your skills and do so wisely.

I was there on BWE 1 – and I don’t remember any of this. The mobs were sort of like they are today. I powered through the content like there was no tomorrow.

Metrica Province Fire Elemental.

Utterly LETHAL early on but the longer it went on the more people understood “don’t stand in the red rings” and “DO NOT REVIVE ON THE BRIDGE!” . . . still got hit with a nerf stick at least once.

Kevan.8912:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kevan.8912:

+1
i think that if anet does really want to be different in the mmo market should rely on these 2 themes:
roleplaying (more players’ involvement in world events, not just an infinite chain of grind. making the player count in tyria. housing, ambient changes) and customization. (more skills, more weapons, more skins, mounts, etc)
but seems it’s already too late.
the usual farming-grinding is here

Never too late until the servers shut down.

Although I don’t expect some of your “roleplaying” list of improvements – notably “housing” – to make it. The last game I played which actually had housing matter also had serious problems with limited space.

Though the “customization” list seems to be in their minds, given how they tried to put in healing skills. Weapon and armor skins . . . really hope we get more, and almost a given we will.

Mounts? Probably staying right out and won’t be showing up. I honestly don’t know why people keep asking for them.

well, It’s all down to personal taste. i’d love mounts.

and, obviously…
if, and only if, ascended is really the last tier….and the last BiS…and if anet creates more interesting (and viable) ways to craft them, could be interesting to come back into the game.
xD

Don’t think they will revamp the crafting methods, and I think Ascended is the best we will see for now. Unless the next set of areas permanently added to the game are incredibly more difficult, I expect we won’t see anything at all.

If they do “Legendary Armor” it’ll probably be through existing armor being back-worked into “Precursors”. I’d suspect using the named exotic pieces would be that, and the method requiring things crafted at skill 450+ along with some other “Gift” item to transform them. It’ll have the same stats as Ascended but be flexibly able to be changed, as per the weapons.

And the gods willing, it won’t be ugly.

Silicato.4603:

Talonblaze.3175:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Then, to be sure, you can see why I put support behind Kiel. Aside from not backing a charr. Last time someone in Kryta like that got power it kind of didn’t end well. Even if Saul meant well.

And what do you know of Kiel’s past? You know -currently- she’s a respectable ex-captain with no political experience. Beyond that? I don’t think anyone knows. Could be a reformed criminal or something, but her lack of any solid information of her past, nor any experience in politics or trade is why I wouldn’t back her. You shouldn’t put someone in such a position of power who has no idea the implications behind it nor the responsibilities, either.

In fact, we all know that she is under magnus’s wings since she was a child and was rescued from a ship where her dads died. So she has been the police’s daughter since ever.

No, that’s not all we know. What we knew about went back a while to November 2012 when she was leading the investigation to the Karka attacks on Lion’s Arch and then leading the expedition through Southsun Cove to establish “Camp Karka”. After that remaining stationed there due to the influx of refugees trying to keep things from getting out of hand despite not having enough people to do the job being demanded of her by the Consortium.

Kevan.8912:

+1
i think that if anet does really want to be different in the mmo market should rely on these 2 themes:
roleplaying (more players’ involvement in world events, not just an infinite chain of grind. making the player count in tyria. housing, ambient changes) and customization. (more skills, more weapons, more skins, mounts, etc)
but seems it’s already too late.
the usual farming-grinding is here

Never too late until the servers shut down.

Although I don’t expect some of your “roleplaying” list of improvements – notably “housing” – to make it. The last game I played which actually had housing matter also had serious problems with limited space.

Though the “customization” list seems to be in their minds, given how they tried to put in healing skills. Weapon and armor skins . . . really hope we get more, and almost a given we will.

Mounts? Probably staying right out and won’t be showing up. I honestly don’t know why people keep asking for them.

Ashen.2907:

Lynne.8416:

Therefore, the manifesto is no longer applicable to the game.

Anet seems to disagree with you as the manifesto is still present on the official GW2 site.

Or it’s still there because it’s press release material and removing it wouldn’t mean as much as leaving it up? Especially if, kitten many claim now, they’re just pretending it never existed.

I mean, if you’re (not the quoted poster but just in general those going “liars!!”) going to make them out to be such atrocious liars, why expect them to remove it?

pulupulu.9730:

I think tybalt left me with strongest impression.

still in the process of playing more pre-trahearne storyline though.

I don’t really like Tybalt the further I get from having played alongside him. He’s a Lightbringer and yet the first mission you handle with him is something which doesn’t make use of his strengths. Instead, it pretty much makes him a loadstone wrapped around your neck and pulling you into stupid positions.

Yes, the amusement is there and it’s entertaining. But it shouldn’t have happened and it raises questions about how effective the Order of Whispers can be if they overlook sending someone without field experience to train someone with arguably much much more covert training. (Ash Legion charr for example.)

Forgal on the other hand, I enjoyed for basically going “sure, you’re a big hero but we have a system in the Vigil and you’re going to work inside it rather than run off and do your own thing”. I bought him a lot more as your instructor and companion.

. . . and Sieran makes me think maybe the Priory needs to screen its recruitment better and tell some people “no”.

However, my most favorite NPC so far in GW2 really is going to fall to either Braham or Rox. Mostly for being actually useful, and entertaining, and having story/lore which doesn’t make me go “wait, what?” more often than “well that makes sense”.

My most favorite NPC in the entire franchise? Still Nicholas Sanford.

Talonblaze.3175:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Then, to be sure, you can see why I put support behind Kiel. Aside from not backing a charr. Last time someone in Kryta like that got power it kind of didn’t end well. Even if Saul meant well.

And what do you know of Kiel’s past?

What I’ve been able to witness through Lost Shores, and the other things going on at Southsun, then later? As opposed to seeing almost nothing of Evon at all?

Hmmm. No, sorry, not really know much about Kiel. I know far more about Evon, you’re so very right there.

You know -currently- she’s a respectable ex-captain with no political experience. Beyond that? I don’t think anyone knows. Could be a reformed criminal or something, but her lack of any solid information of her past, nor any experience in politics or trade is why I wouldn’t back her. You shouldn’t put someone in such a position of power who has no idea the implications behind it nor the responsibilities, either.

I also shouldn’t put someone in power who explicitly would use it for his own gain.

Awe.1096:

Wasbunny.6531:

Just so everyone is clear, this is what a grind actually looks like.

Gadgetzan Reputation Grind

Well. There is one thing which is worse from this. Something called champion farm.

Only one?

I present the following out of the history of MMOs I’ve actually played and subjected myself to:

EverQuest – the “heck levels” every 5 after hitting 30. Something which was quietly denied for a while until it was admitted to exist, and only fixed LONG after most players were past them.
Ultima Online – Grandmastering any skill. Doubly true for the crafting ones, because they also required grinding for materials.
EverQuest – The Alternate Advancement experience grind. Sometimes referred to on the server I played as “Kael Arena Farm”.
Wartune – Nigh anything which could be called “advancement”.
The Realm – Let’s find “The Wrath”, and then get it enchanted with permanent bonuses. Extra points for those enchantments having the (increasing with each one) potential to disintegrate your weapon.
Minecraft – “On a Rail”
Guild Wars 1 – Grandmaster Cartography. Vanquishing.

And in the same stripe, any faction grind in old EverQuest, ESPECIALLY if from KOS status. Notable in there being one zone in which to efficiently raise most of the guard factions on the mainland continent and only so much farm to go around.

Talonblaze.3175:

Evon is far from a graceful loser, his dislike for Kiel is noted in more ways than one. He may be a successful businessman, but he didn’t get to such without cutting a few throats and other likely unpleasant things. Even going against his own legion to do so. (Which is VERY un-Charrlike) Not to mention its obvious his care for money is obvious. Not hard to find out what his motives and wants are. The only reason he bothered with LA was due to its potential for himself, not because ‘he wanted to help people’.

Then, to be sure, you can see why I put support behind Kiel. Aside from not backing a charr. Last time someone in Kryta like that got power it kind of didn’t end well. Even if Saul meant well.

Teege.4623:

Things change. Namely change what you have to, to bring in the money.

“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.”
-Colin Johanson

Well “should” not “will”. And even in the original game that didn’t happen unless you were incredibly lucky or happened to ding 80 right after/during a Temple event chain.

Talonblaze.3175:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Well, if we go about making up stuff about how she is a thief, a murderer, and a liar . . . of course it affects her morality.

I’d like to note, we have already seen a fair bit of Kiel before the election started. It’s pretty clear she does care about people, and does try to do the best thing for everyone involved and not just those in power. Consider the fate of the Consortium contracts . . .

Never called her a murderer. However if it helped further her goals (or her puppet string puller Magnus), I wouldn’t doubt she’d pull a Consortium records again.

And what’s her motive in all this? So far it seems she has nothing, wants nothing and couldn’t be any more flawless of a good guy. She makes Destiny’s Edge seem paltry in comparison. So either she’s the biggest Mary Sue as can be, or she’s clearly got her own agenda.

I don’t think you can call her a Mary Sue with a straight face, since you spend so much time pointing out her flaws. I mean, even if you have to invent them. I mean, if anyone is a Mary Sue it’d have to be Evon.

A charr who abruptly has in his history how he kept Lion’s Arch safe, somehow managed to create and control the biggest merchant guild across Tyria (bigger and more efficient at banking than the Xunlai too), and if we take your words for it, is a graceful loser . . . while coming from a race whose response to humanity settling in a place is to literally run a scorched earth campaign across all of the civilized world.