Guild Wars 2

Cinnamon Goddess.3869:

One thing I didn’t see mentioned appropriately was about agony resistence. If we have 5 trinkets , 1 back, 6 armor, and 1 or 2 weapons does this mean that new content with require and Agony resistance of 65 to 70 just to stay alive? if so this means the 10% argument is pointless. Who cares how much damage you do if you are dead! This would make full Ascended with Agony stats a requirement to play! Not very alt friendly from that perspective, is it?

Do me a favor, and start looking for people saying you’ll need complete/maximum AR in order to do new content. I’ll wait.

I will note it’s been said the higher Fractals should not have been available, which suggests they can open later levels with higher Agony levels for those people who really need to beat that “dungeon” into the ground even more. I don’t get what rewards are worth it after a point, but the drops in Fractals 30+ must be amazing.

I’ve theorized this could mean Mursaat coming in the future due to their special and well-known Agony. Which was a killer if you didn’t have at least half your armor Infused back in Prophecies . . . if their Agony has been watered down I’ll be more upset, as they shouldn’t be easy punching bags without protection

mrstealth.6701:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

colesy.8490:

morrolan.9608:

colesy.8490:

Defense against guards in WvW increases your HP by about 2.5k. Nobody complains. BUT OMG ITS A MASSIVE DEAL COLESY. Nah, nobody cares.

I’ve seen complaints about it.

And what about the night sigil situation? What if you run CoF and you have force/accuracy and they have night/smothering? That’s your 5%+ damage vs. 20%+ damage. I bet people don’t complain about that.

But ascended gear is such a big deal, amirite?

It is a big deal for more than the stat boost, it’s a big deal also for the trouble to acquire.

I mean, that’s if I’m reading the posts right.

I can get weapons with Sigils of Night and Smothering on them for only a few gold, and have them right now. Show me where I can do this with ascended weapons?

That is the problem. Not that they are better, it’s that they are better and have ridiculous timegates attached to getting them.

. . . you do know you didn’t contradict what I said, right? You just pretty much illustrated exactly the same thing, only with a swipe at me as if I said it wasn’t a problem.

I don’t THINK it’s a problem, personally, but I don’t want to say it’s not one anymore. It might well be an issue and I could be wrong. If I am wrong, then it’s okay. Lesson learned – I am not infallible.

cesmode.4257:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

cesmode.4257:

I really think arenanet wanted to be the game to change the genre. Nope.

I look to Everquest Next to do that.

Remembering who is in charge of the EverQuest IP, I’m really not thinking that will happen. But then, they did make the grindfest which was the original game. (“There are no such thing as Heck Levels. It’s just a misperception.”) So if you want to hang your hopes on that?

I really hope it doesn’t disappoint.

Yes, but SOE and EQN is not going around saying “we dont make grindy games” , “play how you want”.

With each game/mmo I play or am interested in I have different expectations based on what the devs tout during their ‘hype’ period.

No, they don’t, but they did have a game where lots of things were broken and they would pretend they were working fine, and would outright lie about things being working or broken in official posts. Repeatedly.

There’s a world of difference between that and the carefully constructed wordings we get from ANet.

colesy.8490:

morrolan.9608:

colesy.8490:

Defense against guards in WvW increases your HP by about 2.5k. Nobody complains. BUT OMG ITS A MASSIVE DEAL COLESY. Nah, nobody cares.

I’ve seen complaints about it.

And what about the night sigil situation? What if you run CoF and you have force/accuracy and they have night/smothering? That’s your 5%+ damage vs. 20%+ damage. I bet people don’t complain about that.

But ascended gear is such a big deal, amirite?

It is a big deal for more than the stat boost, it’s a big deal also for the trouble to acquire.

I mean, that’s if I’m reading the posts right.

darkace.8925:

If horizontal progression didn’t work, then how did ArenaNet ever move forward with that notion after it not working for seven years in the original Guild Wars?

Guild Wars 1 was a different game, with a different design, and a different type of play. I remarked back then it resembled Diablo 2 a lot, being basically group-based play with lobbies in the towns to form up, sell your loot, and go back out.

Half the achievements/titles were grindy as all heck, and the most prestigious items were often exceedingly ugly. And you might think no two players looked alike but there were a lot who either went all-black or all eye-blindingly pink.

Rangers are a good class. Others are better.

Now that I answered your question, only one way to figure out if you’re going to like the ranger. Play one to 80 and try doing some stuff with it. Play around with the various weapon combos, as they do have a nice amount to work with. Pick out some pets you want to try.

That said, expect to always get a lot of crap heaped on you for playing a ranger, especially if it’s not in line with what people think they should be doing. It’s been that way in every game ever where rangers were a class.

I find my ranger a lot of fun, and usually pretty underestimated. On the other hand? It’ll never be the most awesome thing since toast.

cesmode.4257:

I really think arenanet wanted to be the game to change the genre. Nope.

I look to Everquest Next to do that.

Remembering who is in charge of the EverQuest IP, I’m really not thinking that will happen. But then, they did make the grindfest which was the original game. (“There are no such thing as Heck Levels. It’s just a misperception.”) So if you want to hang your hopes on that?

I really hope it doesn’t disappoint.

Unanimous.1486:

Chuo.4238:

No you don’t. Play something else. If enough people refuse to Grind, maybe they’ll wake up. I’m certainly not going to participate.

Wake up to what exactly?
They already got your money.

The way I see it, you bought the game (and I assume) because of what they promised, yet only a couple of months after launch they started doing this.
What makes you think they’ll care if you leave?

Ascended gear is here to stay, this much should be obvious since they started adding more instead of removing or nerfing them to exotic levels.

You know, it amuses me and makes me cringe a bit by the logic of “if you want it to get better, stop paying or playing”. Because, you know, that worked out pretty well for another game NCsoft was footing the bills for. It’s worth remembering ANet is not the one really with the final say on the game. There’s people above them who, if they see a game taking a bit hit like that, will pull the switch without hesitation.

Some of you may not mind that, but I am talking about everything going away if it does get noticed, rather than getting better. It’s actually much better to keep (civil) complaints on the forums.

Yes, you heard me. If you don’t like it don’t shut up but do please behave yourselves and maybe the thread will be read rather than dismissed as whining.

(Disclaimer: Guarantees of thread being read are nonexistent, as are guarantees they will read it and agree with what you have to say.)

Sylv.5324:

Being in full exotics will not make you obsolete. The stat differences are not that massive.

That’s like saying that up until now, being in rares made you obsolete, and it doesn’t. You are still very effective in yellows, including in WvW.

But you’re not at the best, and some people really wish that as opposed to being capable enough. That’s what a lot of people just are either not grasping or forgetting . . .

There are an ample amount of people for whom it’s about being the best somehow, and gear was the easiest way to do this for a long time. It’s no longer so easy, and is a slight bit restrictive. It’s now going to be a slow, and slightly difficult process (in terms of “not easy”). Ascended is pretty much going to move into the spot Legendary should have had – requiring time but not insanely specific luck (Precursors, hehehe, through Mystic Forge . . . oh my. It’ll be something rarely seen, which will say different things to different people.

For some who see someone with it, it will be “wow that’s neat, how did they get that? How can I get one?” For others, it’ll be “pheh, that’s another casher right there”.

You know, like what people say when someone is standing around with Foefire’s Essence, or any other flashy special exotic.

Pedra.4381:

Josh Foreman.8250:

Like before, I’ll throw out the caveat that I’m not claiming that the SAB team is that master craftsman pushing the medium forward in dramatic brilliant ways. Only that we are THINKING about the design choices we make, we recognize when we are breaking rules, and we have a reason for doing so. Because SAB exists within the ecosystem of Guild Wars 2 it’s not going to be an exact replica of IWTBTG. We’re a hybrid, and that brings lots of interesting challenges with it. I’m sure we’ll learn a lot from this first TM release, and incorporate those lessons into the next round.

That’s A LOT of explanatory information to not be comparing yourself to it.

They didn’t compare themselves to it.

What they said is “yes, we know what normally should be done, we thought about it and chose to do it this way as an extra mode”. As in, in addition to the normal and the “Infantile Mode” which had its place also (notably “Collect all the Baubles everywhere”.)

I haven’t seen it, I haven’t played it, and I don’t play games like IWTBTG. I do, however, play the original X-Com and TFTD so I know about “unfair and hard” in a sense and for certain constructions which use that format “I can dig it”.

Is the game growing?

(Shakes magic 8-ball)

Answer hazy, try again later.

HappyPrimes.3904:

Good to know that Anet is dedicating resources to an IWBTG ripoff that a minority of people will play and even fewer will enjoy instead of spending those resources on things that more people will enjoy and the game, frankly needs. Like GvG, or making sPvP better, or improving dungeons, or reworking the incentives to get more people into WvW/PvP instead of running in circles in Frostgorge killing champions.

Maybe next year I guess.

Good to know you have all the internal information on who’s working on what for exactly how long, hmm? Seriously, they may not be working on your list of “needs” but to assume they’re only ever working on one thing, ever . . .

You know why we don’t hear things about other plans? Because they’re not yet ready to talk about them, either because the list of things they’ve come up with haven’t worked out or because it’s still a crude outline on the whiteboard they’re trying to flesh out.

I rather thought they’d made it clear a while ago they don’t announce anything until they know for sure what they’ve got.

Awe.1096:

JayMack.8295:

fungihoujo.8476:

Knowing Anet, the challenge will be in invisible things that instant kill you. I’ll be very surprised if the challenge they put in is anything other than one shot kills and memorization.

You act like this is a rarity among older games and that ANet have invented it. It’s a style Josh is purposely going for.

I remember games like Tomb Raider 2 where you’d turn a corner, and a boulder would hit you in the face and kill you. You’d load a save(hopefully having saved close enough), do it again, dodge the boulder and then land in a spike trap, which kills you in one hit.

Yes, many consider them cheap deaths, but it’s a style of gaming I grew up with and love.

Would you still love it if every death placed you back at the start of the level (and not cheap save point) and furthermore the game would only be available to play for one week every 6 months? That is what my gripe is about, not the difficulty of the puzzle itself.

This sounds exactly like my days of renting games from that lil shack-like shop down the block and around the corner from my house when I couldn’t afford to buy NES/SNES/Sega carts for myself. I mean, seriously, some of my fondest memories were of those rented games I never got a chance to beat though I had just gotten the hang of them.

And I do second the notion that MOST really hard 8-bit and 16-bit games had an element of fairness to them. The Mega Man series, for instance; start with the first one and second one (I find the second one to be nowhere near as difficult as people insist it is though).

But it’s also like shmups. There’s standard sorts which are difficult but not crazy. And then there’s “Bullet Heck”.

There’s RPGS. And then there’s Roguelikes with permadeath.

Every genre has it’s point where all the difficulty has been tuned and sharpened down to a nice stiletto to shove in some player’s kidneys. Some players enjoy it, and we do mock people for their masochistic tendencies. But there’s also some feats we do look at in awe:

“I beat Contra off an emulator with no Code.” “Solo White Mage run.” “Yellow Devil, no pause trick.” “Quick Man, no Flash Stopper.” “Battletoads.”

They aren’t for everyone. That’s never the point of determining to make something that controller-breakingly frustrating. They may not be fun, but it’s not about the fun, it’s about the challenge.

Some of you may understand that, and a lot of you probably will think that sounds crazy (I do too). But that’s because you are NOT the type of guy trying to pull off something most people would declare impossible just to one day go “I did that”.

Knote.2904:

Conncept.7638:

Knote.2904:

Conncept.7638:

No the charr are the lowest played races for many many more aesthetic reasons than armor clipping. The amount of aesthetic mistakes made in their design is astounding, especially coming from a team of industry professionals.

I said Charr Armor Issues, that sort of umbrellas not only clipping issues but everything else that’s wrong with it. It is definately horrendous.

Aesthetics does not solely mean armor. The Charr were designed to look ferocious and driven by emotion, yet at the same time cunning, logical, and ambitious. Arenanet failed to convey any of that in their design. Between the ridiculously exaggerated overbites, lack of facial detail and expressions, the slurred speech patterns, and the gravity-defying posture the Charr look stupid (literally), unthreatening, emotionless, and frankly inbred, regardless of what armor they are wearing.

That’s because they didn’t even try to, besides cultural stuff.

Everything is made for humans then stretched over charr.

You’re still talking about the armor, he’s talking about the actual models and such.

You want to know why else, I find? At least in WvW people want to play asura due to a potential size advantage – smaller and harder to spot rather than large, broad, and easy to see moving. I had it explained to me a couple times.

@Josh:

I know of this game, is this like the Kaizo Super Mario World thing? You know, romhacks doing stupidly crazy, player-frustrating traps?

. . . wow, I might just find this entertaining if TM has infinite lives attached to it. I mean, that blunts the challenge slightly because infinite lives makes it only a matter of time and muscle memory learning it all.

Warlocke.3754:

…
:o

Wow. That is awesome of ANet. Thanks guys.

Now . . .

Can we get this done with Festival skins we earn?

Vayne.8563:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Zero Day.2594:

no clue about time gating, i actually would like to hear a legitimate reason for it
none of that money making conspiracy theories….

The only reason that seems to fit is to add another carrot to daily play. If you can log in every day, you can get an ascended item (bound!) in about two weeks (according to the dev stream). If, like me, your life limits you to weekend play, then maybe a few months to a year? Oh yeah, and you’ll have to do dungeons and jumping puzzles to get some t7 mats as well as salvage exotics for one rare mat (like exotics drop daily).

I guess since ascended is just as good as a legendary they want it to take a long time to get.

So you get the item in 14 days of your play and I get the item in 14 days of my play. In what world isn’t that fair.

You’ll be playing 14 days in the old gear and I’ll be playing 14 days in the old gear. Relatively it’s all the same.

This is the only fair way to do it.

It’s simple to explain, though really I wonder the point of this . . .

You play 14 days in a row, and get one weapon (we hope). He plays once every week and he takes 14 weeks to get it (he hopes). Which means you have the opportunity to get seven times as many weapons if you were straight playing.

So, obviously, you can see the problem here. You’re seven times as fortunate as him to have seven times this great gear.

Lord Kuru.3685:

The Announcement today makes it sound like we’ll have so much fun in the discovery panel of the crafting window once the Ascended weapons come. Yay! We’ll get to mindlessly input the same predictable formulas in the discovery boxes!

IMO crafting is the worst/least fun part of the game! The only crafting profession that is somewhat interesting is Cooking because of the lack of such rigid formulas. But it is, in it’s own way, infuriating with all its non-bankable tiers of intermediate ingredients.

Anyone else get the feeling they had some interesting ideas, but at some point realized they were either not going to have time to build something entirely new OR it wasn’t going to get used anyway, so why bother?

Part of me is listening to them talk about the Ascended Weapon forging and going “this sounds like if it had been in the game at the start, it could have been awesome”. Actually having to get these unusual components by doing various activities so they can be brought together into a powerful piece of equipment?

Too bad it is added a year later, because now nobody thinks it’s neat.

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

I got a better solution for you. Stop leaving the game after the match ends and let it load up another one.

A 1-hit kill skill makes perfect sense in a competitive survival scenario and this skill is so easily telegraphed and dodged. This is definitely a player skill issue.

It takes a while to channel, and can miss once it is aimed if the person moves too far. So you can basically hit someone not moving perpendicular to you, and if they see you at all? They can dodge it. And if you miss the arrow is there so they get one free off your miss.

That’s not the skill which makes me crazy. The crazy one is “Summon Karka”.

Akari Storm.6809:

Difference between that back and these weapons, is the time-gated portion. You are going to have to consciously work on them.

I probably will, only because I am a crafting . . . yeah not putting that word on the forums . . . a crafting FOOL. I like to play with the crafting in games and mess around, maybe work on filling supplies “just in case” in some instances. And if I’m not doing anything with that material anyway (hint, I’m usually not, it just sits . . . except for during the Bazaar where it was emptied out) . . . why not?

This sets a bad precedent in my eyes. Armor is only around the corner folks. You should have 1 character fully ascended (for 1 build) by 2015.

ehhh . . . precedent I can’t quite argue with, because you’re right if you want to take this in that direction.

On the other hand, the last pure MMO I played? I’d have been happier to know I’d get them “eventually” geared through work rather than having to get lucky to roll on gear or “auction” with DKP. There is no amount of awesome story, or graphics, which would make me willingly sign up for an MMO of that level of craziness.

Well . . . there is exactly ONE, but that’s because I like Monster Hunter and could convince two friends I know to team up and take it on.

Shifu.4321:

How many people will settle for anything less than BiS? How many people are wearing rares right now instead of exotics? I’m sure it will be far less than those who want the BiS. It’s just human nature.

(Whistles)

Over here! Hi. You were talking about me, I see.

The only reason I got Exotic armor, and the only reason I got an Ascended backpiece recently, is because I got the armor with less effort than to just “ride the event to the chest at the Temple of Balthazar and get them for karma”. Which I had truckloads of from when I didn’t have anything to spend it on worth anything to me.

(By the way, yes, I buy Lost Orrian Jewelry Boxes now. Because that Karma isn’t useful for me for anything else right now.)

Why the Ascended backpiece? When I was organizing inventory and saw I was more than halfway there and had the money? I finished it in three clicks and a walk from Black Lion to the Mystic Forge. If I hadn’t had that much . . . which I hadn’t until Monday . . . I wouldn’t have bothered.

Same with Ascended. I’ll get it when it’s not going to cost me too much going out of the way. Otherwise it can stay where it is and I won’t care.

Xhyros.1340:

If they only have an infusion slot instead of a jewel/sigil slot, maybe not.

Been told they have one of each.

Chase.8415:

And here’s the big difference between Guild Wars 1 and Guild Wars 2.

You actually feel like the game is being updated, rather than waiting for an expansion and paying $60 for it. And to top it all off, Guild Wars 2 didn’t charge anything for it.

This is not always a good thing, mind you. And they did constantly work on GW1 too, especially in regards to PvP skill balance. (heh . . .) It was most visible there how GW1 did have people keeping track of it somewhat constantly.

It also had the occasional “what are they thinking?” moment too. And by “occasional” I mean “obligatory at every skill balance patch”.

Raine.1394:

Well, exotics are not exactly pointless, but rather just a point on an ever ascending (no pun intended) power curve. I have Foefire’s Essence as well as I think it is the perfect Guardian’s sword. It is very sad that a weapon like that is made obsolete as an end game goal. Vertical progression is a blight on every game in which it exists. It is no different here. It’s ironic as I left WoW for GW2, in part, to escape the gear grind.

Can I just ask, is it perfect from the statistic arrangement, or the look? Because we’ve established the look can be (painfully enough) transferred . . .

Also, I am trying to hang onto my Lionguard Axe for as long as I can. I earned that thing during Lost Shores :P

KingClash.3186:

Keep in mind the forum community is the only voice Anet has to listen to good or bad. Most people in game don’t even know what the forums are considering they don’t read patch notes and freak out when something changes “all the sudden”;
or they just don’t visit them unless they have something to say.

Once it happens there will be a bigger outcry unfortunately just wait and see.

In my experience the general thought process of players is about the same on the forums as it is in JQ map chats, my guild of 500 members, and in numerous comments like on reddit and youtube.

Incorrect.

There are ANet people who play the game, both on their official accounts and incognito. They can hear on the game what’s going wrong or what people think. They also prowl Reddit regularly too, and probably read emails or other messages sent to them.

The trick is for them to filter the people making serious complaints versus those who make them just to troll, those who make it without understanding what they’re complaining about, and those who complain but don’t play at all.

And the problem is a lot of people who don’t read this stuff, don’t think they have to, and thus are not informed of what’s coming thus don’t have the opportunity (or so they’ll say) of voicing dissent.

silvermember.8941:

SkylightMoon.1980:

I think you’re all overreacting, since I don’t know whether its gated per account or per character. GW2 isn’t in the gear treadmill stage yet, so no reason to call it that. It will be if we get another gear type after ascended though within the next year, but I doubt that. The only gear type we’ll get after ascended is legendary, but that won’t be this year so no worries.

Some people like gated content, or just don’t mind it at all. The forums are the only place ive really heard complaints. In game, I dont see any complaints from people. Only goes to show the difference between the two communities.

People keep saying gear treadmil but I doubt they know what it actually means. If you want to know what a gear threadmill is hit up DCUO, that makes this game look like a kitten.

Gear treadmill? EverQuest post Planes of Power. And inflating stats on items, too! But there’s always other games to compare to when what we probably should stick to (and be sane about it) is what we’ve got in front of us. We all have probably seen worse examples of anything in this game, or better examples . . .

Try to focus on this. And it’s not a “gear treadmill” until they move out another set of stats higher than this you MUST HAVE to keep going . . .

KingClash.3186:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

KingClash.3186:

Anymore time gating then we might as well call this Wartune 2. :P

Shudders

Oh crap you play that too? And I use the loosest form of “play”.

. . . do you understand why I laugh a lot when people try claiming “P2W” on GW? Or “too grindy”?

To be fair I only play it because my brother does, and we play together. For the moment.

Haha yeah a friend of mine who owns a Google-Machine that can only play Facebook games wanted me to try it, played it for about 4 hours until i watched him play on his lvl 60 toon and I was just freaking out that he puts up with that kinda of time gating by the triple digit hours to do a menial daily (weekly that was once daily?) task O_O.

My concern is what if other people will start to view GW2 this way also.. Because its getting similar.

Must be upgrades to stuff? Wartune has a vehicle for dealing with that, it’s called “Pay us $8/mo to be VIP” and it has other perks attached. Really it’s a subscription fee to not have to timegate, but it only gets rid of SOME. There’s the regular schedule of events on the server (oh, you were late 10 minutes? Too bad, either wait for tomorrow or try the other time…) and there’s a limit to how many attempts you can make at dungeons per day (without necessarily succeeding, you’re still counted at starting it) . . .

Why do I put up with it?

I consider it self-education on these types of games and the mechanics they’re using. $8/mo isn’t bad for a peek under the hood and a chance to occasionally talk with other people playing about the mechanics and what they think of it. I do the same with GW2 when I’m in the mood for it – look at things and go “now why do it this way?”.

Assuming of course it’s not just some developer wanting to screw with you. I mean, for that I just need to go find IWTBTG . . .

KingClash.3186:

Anymore time gating then we might as well call this Wartune 2. :P

Shudders

Oh crap you play that too? And I use the loosest form of “play”.

. . . do you understand why I laugh a lot when people try claiming “P2W” on GW? Or “too grindy”?

To be fair I only play it because my brother does, and we play together. For the moment.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Here’s a comparison for you;

The size of GW1 Tyria is miniscule compare to GW2 Tyria.

Are we talking with the GW:EN attached to the same map, are are we talking just Prophecies? And are we going to consider all the empty spots with no actual use except maybe kinda sorta for some quests maybe . . . important?

Prophecies was huge, with a lot of empty space and long walks to get places you didn’t really have to go anyway. I mean, things came later which gave you a reason to go there, but there really was no reason for eastern Ascalon, half of the Southern Shiverpeaks, and the Falls.

It was better later on but still, whew, lots of empty space in places. Don’t find many places truly “empty” in GW2, usually something in there.

My point is, you can compare the first year to what was delivered side-by-side, but GW2 is in no way standing on the same pedestal compare to GW1.

They’re not even really the same type of game, really . . .

Chuo.4238:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chuo.4238:

Kyrel.8942:

You can do all PvE without Ascended. You don’t have to play catch up.

Oh. Well. Dang. That makes it all good, then. No need to get it…

Um. Why, then, is it there?

To be gotten.

. . . seriously, if you’re going to agree on that point there’s no reason you require it? It’s only there right now to be had.

In the future however . . . well, nobody knows. Because we can’t tell exactly what’s coming, only that Ascended gear is going to be available. With Infusions and Agony Resistance included, to note.

Infer what you will.

I’d rather have a dungeon, or a new PvP map, or even a pastry. Anything with more imagination than gear grind. To be had? If it’s there at least there could be a concrete reason to need it.

I don’t disagree with you.

. . . I could really go for some kolachis now.

I can only assume they’re putting it in now to prevent what happened with Guild Missions being all loaded into the same patch. Give people time to get these things in before some high-end event is added requiring AR.

morrolan.9608:

SafiMoyo.5130:

Let’s say you use two sets of 1 handed weapons. That’s 4 weapons, which is 8 weeks of work for one build on one character.

I mean, it is a serious time investment. If you want alternate builds, you’ll have to just forget about it. I have, and I play one character, so it’s all very managable to me. But I swap weapons a lot on this one character, so getting my LB, SB, sword, axe, GS, and warhorn back is going to take a lot of time (and I’m just going to forget about the torch and dagger).

I don’t have the time for multi characters, nor the bank space and time for multi builds.

Spot on I’d really like to see an anet rep justify this.

I recognize that weapon type list . . .

I could see the response now: "Stop playing rangers :P "

Though honestly, I’d probably pick one weapon I use the most and pick that up first, the alternate I use the most second, and then quietly work on the others with no pressure. Notably, I don’t think I’d really do much for off-hand gear . . . my torch doesn’t need to be top slot and my warhorn isn’t used for damage at all

Michael.7943:

They’re just putting in more grind into the game to keep you buying gems. All this inconsequential ‘Living Story’ filler probably has a very low dev cost, and is of very low quality. They just don’t care anymore.

Low quality? Do you mean the story, the material in game itself, or the art assets? Because I thought the art and models were (mostly) really nice. Also, the dev cost is probably the same whether or not the quality is good or poor or the best thing since Al Gore invented the Internet.

You know what will keep me buying gems though? Useful things or fun distractions. Given I’ve only bought gems once for each infinite harvesting tool and once more for bank space? I don’t think I really “wasted” my gems, which is what I’d feel if I had bought, oh, the flute or some Black Lion Keys.

TooBz.3065:

butch.8136:

And gw1 wasn’t a grind? lol it’s all optional, you’ll be able to play the game at any level without ascended gear.

Arguments like this are the death by a thousand cuts. No one cut is a big deal (as people such as yourself are quick to point out), but the next thing you know you have a checklist of bullkitten you do before you start doing anything you enjoy.

Eh, I’m careful of extrapolation, and cautiously optimistic of the future instead of worrying it’ll fall downward. Mostly because if it does go to crap I can just walk away and nobody is twisting my arm to make me do the stuff or stay.

Not telling people to leave, but don’t ever blame people for departing unless they kick up a huge fuss. Then it depends, if they kicked up a fuss over something which they could have fixed but chose not to . . . yes, I’ll mock or blame them. If they left because it just wasn’t fun for them anymore? No mocking, no blame, merely “hope the next thing is fun”.

Seriously. Any of you departing to await ESO or whatever it is you head to next? I do hope you have fun with it. I’ll have fun here until it’s no longer fun and then it’s to the next thing. That’s how I approach my games, because my life is too complicated to play games I don’t want to.

Chuo.4238:

Kyrel.8942:

You can do all PvE without Ascended. You don’t have to play catch up.

Oh. Well. Dang. That makes it all good, then. No need to get it…

Um. Why, then, is it there?

To be gotten.

. . . seriously, if you’re going to agree on that point there’s no reason you require it? It’s only there right now to be had.

In the future however . . . well, nobody knows. Because we can’t tell exactly what’s coming, only that Ascended gear is going to be available. With Infusions and Agony Resistance included, to note.

Infer what you will.

Thanks, red-folk, I had assumed that but wanted to ask since your attention was here to be sure.

My Celestial stash of recipes is safe, which is good.

Martin:

What about Celestial exotics? Will we need to “Discover” those or have you only reset those which are only earned through Discovery like I expect?

Akari Storm.6809:

So, um yeah. Anet wants us to salvage exotics that hardly drop? Exotics that go for pretty much at the lowest 1g per and will probably rise with this new announcement.

Not sure If I’m liking that. “sigh”

And jumping puzzles as an req? are you serious. gosh, I hate those more than I hate anything in the real world.

Could be just jumping puzzles, could also be world bosses, “mega bosses” whatever those are . . . seems like there were options in there, which is why I didn’t cringe over thinking of the Vizier’s Tower being a requirement for me to try again.

. . . I mean, more than once per character.

Nick.6972:

It doesn’t matter until you go WvW.

I barely go WvW now, being a ranger by trade and a mediocre one on my BEST days

ExTribble.7108:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Snype Cyclos.7391:

It’s like when you buy a TV, and a few months later a newer version of that TV comes out. It doesn’t make your TV useless, it still does all the things it did when you bought it. The idea that you NEED to have it is completely in your mind. Same goes for Ascended gear. If you want it, then you will put the time and energy required to get it because that’s what video games are. If not, then you won’t.

I hate analogies like this, because we watched it happen in the US with digital TV.

Except that change was subsidized where the fancy new signal converter box (which is all you needed) was $40.00 for a cheap one and the subsidy you could request was $39.99 (iirc). This has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

It’s another reason I hate analogies.

Again, exotics aren’t going to be useless. I’m not even going to bother with ascended on my alts simply because they can all already do any content they please with minimal effort. My main will be getting ascended just because I do fractals with it. If I didn’t do fractals, I really couldn’t care less about the change.

This is pretty much where I stand on this. Can I get an Ascended because I happen to be able to do it? Great! If not, well, I’m not going to expect to suddenly not be doing as well as I am currently.

Oroibahazopi.9074:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Are you asking me for my belief, or what I expect to happen?

I believe that the big ball of zerg with 13+% better gear is going to get their clocks cleaned . . . repeatedly . . . to the Arrow Carts on walls they can’t hit. I believe if someone starts the “ascended or go back to carebear land” hate on chat then they’re going to get reamed a new one by people who want as many people as possible actually contributing and not just leeching/akitteng doing nothing.

I expect it’ll pretty much remain the same as before Ascended, just with vocal elitism being tried and either shouted down or supported depending on what the people in the map are like. And still seeing Zerg v Door repeatedly like clockwork.

Ascended or go back to carebear land like an oxymoron considering how the new weapons are made tbh.

13% more hp and toughness will mean those acs will be cleaning a lot less clocks. Ok so maybe more like 8% more hp and toughness iirc. Also PvDoor will be 10% faster lol

Well, you asked me what I believed and I gave you what I believed and what I expected. What actually happens is another matter entirely.

I still expect the zerg to be absolutely full of people who aren’t geared to the teeth. Except on T1, and I’m told repeatedly zerging is not the meta there.

Essence Snow.3194:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

If we were having a reasonable debate/discussion, you would not have leaped to the hyperbole of “might as well do everything in white items” to try to make your point.

I think you jumped into the middle without reading the beginning.

Essence Snow.3194:

You don’t need anything beyond whites. Same premise, but does it fly….nope.

I think I did too, mostly because of watching a logic train similar to an exercise I had to endure back in classes: “2 people can do more work than 1 person. Therefore if twice as many people were doing a job, then it would be done better.”

Though, I will point out the premise I put forth was kind of different and pointed out why that oddly reached argument (“all whites are just as good as all pink”) probably isn’t demonstrably true for all cases. Certainly, one case can be found to either prove or disprove the argument . . .

. . . which makes me sigh and go “this is the problem with arguing in absolute terms in a world which does not handle absolutes very well”.

Oroibahazopi.9074:

You honestly believe that a blob with the 13%+ better gear isn’t going to have an advantage.

You honestly believe the current no upleveled culture isn’t going to evolve into the ascended or gtfo culture?

Are you asking me for my belief, or what I expect to happen?

I believe that the big ball of zerg with 13+% better gear is going to get their clocks cleaned . . . repeatedly . . . to the Arrow Carts on walls they can’t hit. I believe if someone starts the “ascended or go back to carebear land” hate on chat then they’re going to get reamed a new one by people who want as many people as possible actually contributing and not just leeching/akitteng doing nothing.

I expect it’ll pretty much remain the same as before Ascended, just with vocal elitism being tried and either shouted down or supported depending on what the people in the map are like. And still seeing Zerg v Door repeatedly like clockwork.

Snype Cyclos.7391:

It’s like when you buy a TV, and a few months later a newer version of that TV comes out. It doesn’t make your TV useless, it still does all the things it did when you bought it. The idea that you NEED to have it is completely in your mind. Same goes for Ascended gear. If you want it, then you will put the time and energy required to get it because that’s what video games are. If not, then you won’t.

I hate analogies like this, because we watched it happen in the US with digital TV.

LordKangus.1902:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

I consider the skin to be the only use of the weapon :P

Truth! Here here!

THAT skin is well worth keeping, I’d say. Foefire’s Essence. Whew.

By the way, most exotics were pointless in some eyes if they weren’t precursors or the “cooler” skins. I personally think the Pearl exotics might as well not exist for me. Don’t like them.

Essence Snow.3194:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Essence Snow.3194:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Essence Snow.3194:

Coldin.2840:

And really, you don’t need an Ascended Weapon. Yes, they’re better than exotics, but the whole idea is you don’t need Ascended stuff to play GW2. We kind of all knew there was going to be a bit of time related grind to Ascended items, kind of like there was for getting the Laurel ascended equipment as well.

You don’t need anything beyond whites. Same premise, but does it fly….nope.

I have one ascended trinket, on all of my characters. I just wanted the +gold infusion amulet on my guardian, for no good reason. I still have 200ish laurels. I really don’t think it affects my roaming WvW characters in the least bit. I’m not going to notice this at all. Bringing up whites is just trying way too hard.

Not agreeing/disagreeing with time gating, but don’t pull that and to try dispute something :P Exotics are still fine for everything sub high level fractals.

The reasoning is perfectly valid so what’s the reasoning to why not?

*reasoning=Don’t need ascended…exotics are fine, don’t need exotics…rares are fine, don’t need rares….masterworks are fine, don’t need masterworks…fines are fine, don’t need fines…commons are fine, need commons to be able to use skills

If anyone of the statements are true then all are true, thus my reasoning.

You are aware it is possible to form a perfectly logical chain of reasoning and still be wrong? Also that there is a point where being perfectly logical is not being perfectly sensible?

Perfectly aware, just as I am aware that it’s possible to debate something by simply saying something is wrong without providing any reasoning or evidence to why it’s wrong. Which one is more suited for a reasonable debate/discussion?

If we were having a reasonable debate/discussion, you would not have leaped to the hyperbole of “might as well do everything in white items” to try to make your point.

As I said, there’s nothing wrong with your logic. In fact, I could foresee someone doing stuff in simply white gear and no armor just to prove it could be done. But is it reasonable to assume it is viable for the majority of players it would work just as easily as with Fine, Masterwork, Rare, etc?

For the moment, the game is balanced to a point in which Exotic gear is barely a necessity, and is mostly just the top shelf of gear you can wear. Unless there is a massive redesign of how enemy stats are calculated (which we haven’t heard “yes” or “no” to, so consider it possible) then Exotics still would be more than adequate for handling things in PvE.

sPvP has its own system and does not enter into this at all.

WvW, as the stepchild of PvE and PvP, is weird. In the current metagame, it is much more advantageous (for loot and rewards) to step into a zerg gathering with any kind of gear at all rather than take top shelf gear and go roaming. Also in the current metagame, well-placed siege weapons are incredibly more potent against players in smaller groups than actually going to fight them. I do not predict that is going to change, as the purported purpose of WvW is to hold your objectives rather than kill the other side. Sure, there’s more loot value in going for killing than holding objectives . . . but once more, the current metagame rewards crushing numbers (“the army ant method”) rather than smaller encounters.

Essence Snow.3194:

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

Essence Snow.3194:

Coldin.2840:

And really, you don’t need an Ascended Weapon. Yes, they’re better than exotics, but the whole idea is you don’t need Ascended stuff to play GW2. We kind of all knew there was going to be a bit of time related grind to Ascended items, kind of like there was for getting the Laurel ascended equipment as well.

You don’t need anything beyond whites. Same premise, but does it fly….nope.

I have one ascended trinket, on all of my characters. I just wanted the +gold infusion amulet on my guardian, for no good reason. I still have 200ish laurels. I really don’t think it affects my roaming WvW characters in the least bit. I’m not going to notice this at all. Bringing up whites is just trying way too hard.

Not agreeing/disagreeing with time gating, but don’t pull that and to try dispute something :P Exotics are still fine for everything sub high level fractals.

The reasoning is perfectly valid so what’s the reasoning to why not?

*reasoning=Don’t need ascended…exotics are fine, don’t need exotics…rares are fine, don’t need rares….masterworks are fine, don’t need masterworks…fines are fine, don’t need fines…commons are fine, need commons to be able to use skills

If anyone of the statements are true then all are true, thus my reasoning.

You are aware it is possible to form a perfectly logical chain of reasoning and still be wrong? Also that there is a point where being perfectly logical is not being perfectly sensible?

Lord Kuru.3685:

You make it sound much better than it is.

In WvW, you kill champs only if/when you take a tower. Exotic weapons can’t be bought with just badges; you need gold as well. Where do you get that gold from? The amount of money you make in WvW is insignificant compared to PvE, which means TP prices are a much higher percentage of your wealth compared to a PvE player.

I used to make more money doing WvW than I did doing PvE, as long as I wasn’t chucking it into upgraded towers/keeps the zerg wouldn’t protect . . . since it was much more fun to take it back than keep it.

At least, until Invasions. Now it’s kinda similar in fact in that it is incredibly uneven but still profitable.

Nar.8327:

SuLor.2840:

Yep, it’s going to take forever

Isn’t time-gating great?

…said no one, ever.

I usually have to qualify it, actually.

“Isn’t time-gated gear great . . . compared to 1% drops I need to /random 0 100 for?”

SkylightMoon.1980:

ShadowPuppet.3746:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So, hm, first we get this stuff put in to allow crafting as opposed to RNG drops in a dungeon like it was with Rings and Fractals . . . (with an option for world-wide RNG drops from what I read) and it’s a complaint it doesn’t drop in dungeons?

When it was dropping in dungeons, there were complaints about no other way of getting it . . .

I’m going to just sigh if, in two months, we see a dungeon or event which is specially made to drop Ascended gear because people want it easier, then people complain about the crafting update being useless.

^THIS. It just proves that the GW2 community is spoiled and can’t completely be satisfied. The forum community is this way at least. The only thing I agree with is that there doesnt need to be time-gating for an entire account. It needs to be separate per character.

Or you know they could just have stuck to what they said they were going to do from the beginning and made only cosmetic grind not BiS grind. They could also have implemented it the way it currently functions with exotics which allows you to craft, do dungeons, use karma and get the items directly. It keeps in line with what their initial stated goals were for the game, what they are implementing now does not.

I know you’re afraid of a gear treadmill but I think you’re speaking to soon. Ascended has been the only new rarity introduced since november and I doubt we will get another rarity. I heard somewhere that the Ascended rarity will only continue to change in certain ways, not have a new rarity introduced. Perhaps the Ascended rarity actually has some purpose to it (lorewise)

It does, but it takes some work to get there. See, Ascended might as well be the maximum rank of items, and in GW1:Prophecies those were at Droknar’s Forge. (Insert obligatory comment about dwarven master-smiths . . . now.) Which was where you wound up after Ascending and being pointed at the next place to go.

In short, you started getting your maximum stat gear right about when you Ascended. Not only that, but the Infusion of that armor was instrumental in fighting the Mursaat due to their touch of Agony. And for the longest time you got the hilarious effect of watching henchmen suffer while you were safe behind it. (Seriously, they would just melt in less time than it took to read this sentence.)

With some contortion as you see, it’s inevitable the top shelf gear in both games was “Ascended gear”.

Also, when the Mursaat come back, you’ll want that gear.

Akari Storm.6809:

@Tobias, It was me and my team that took down Abbadon. I didn’t see Kormir handing out advice on how I should equip my heroes. Added, It was me and my team that kept saving her butt through out the whole campaign. Added, it was my expertise (and other players like me) that defeated most obstacles to even get to Abbadon eg, I figured out the Flameseeker Prophecy and defeated Mursaat/Titans/Lich x2/Shiro x2/ and Abaddon’s Harbingers and armies.

I was so good that I made the highest rank in her little order. I should have just killed her because she made nothing but bad decision after bad decision, but I’m a hero.

I was promising myself I wasn’t going to get into this . . . yet again . . . but given I’ve been relatively good this week concerning not giving in to temptation I figured I might as well save the booze and give in to this temptation. Especially since you decided to throw out the lore argument in the first bit there about “gearing up your heroes”.

I am immensely surprised you “figured out” the Flameseeker Prophecies because that was the most convoluted set of events which I’ve seen as far as predictions. And I watch Doctor Who. You didn’t figure them out, there was never a choice to do anything but what was in front of you and take care of one problem at a time until suddenly it was over. You didn’t even get TOLD the prophecy other than Glint’s cryptic hint about the Ring of Fire. Which conveniently the Mursaat left you a door open to go visit.

You got handed the solution to that problem. A lot like thwarting Shiro was a matter of “and now you’re no longer immune to weapons and magic so you get to die now, k thx bai”. (And even then, it didn’t really fall to you, it fell to the Oracle of the Mists and his adepts to make sure he didn’t explode again with that Jade Wind stunt.)

Nightfall got worse on that score, because the only decisions you made? Invalidated because it all led right to the same point: killing Varesh and letting Abaddon out anyway. And rescuing Kormir, bailing her out of the prison, was your own fault to begin with for not killing Varesh rather than let her spout off and summon her demons. Heck, you could have stopped her right there but no, your character (and mine) decided to listen to Dunkoro and run away rather than just go for the blaze of glory like we did for the Lich and Shiro. We could have ended that whole mess right there but nope.

So, if you want to look at whose fault it is by the events? It wasn’t Kormir’s fault, it was ours.

I hate crafting because of lodestones and other t6 items that barely drop. T6 mats drop a bit more nowadays with the champ farm up and running + clockwork chaos at work, but it’s the amount of items that crafting takes. I always thought it was too high.
Don’t fret though, I hate crafting in a lot of MMO’s.

This is only the second game I felt even remotely in control of what I was doing with crafting. Every game else than this, it really felt like I could only make whatever they decided I needed to make, and it was almost always worse than drops I had to line up and wait for.

Here that’s not going on. I still have to work on those drops but at least my crafted gear isn’t significantly worse (and in fact with Ascended will be much better) than something I can go farm up in Orr.

. . . for the record, the only other game I felt I had more control and more usefulness out of bothering with crafting was Ultima Online.