Oh my. If you could build bridges and make bread from broken or unfullfilled promises of Anet, especially in the area of “exotic stays always top gear”, every place would be reachable by a bridge and nobody would be hungry. ^^
You know, you could make a massive themepark with the amount of slippery slopes you’re using in your arguments. I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea that they are adding a new tier of gear, or removing the mystic force recipes from a tweet saying that you probably should bring ascended gear.
I mean, maybe they’re going to increase the level cap too?! Oh no!
I never said anything about the recipe, that was simple speculation from the person I quoted.
I also don´t know about any new armor type, I even doubt it, but the premise that Anet can´t afford to break that promise AGAIN is just wishful thinking.
On a sidenote, I would not mind a level cap raise, I actually like open world pve ontent of GW2.^^
thats the point, with a gear treadmill you get better equipment with each Raid
Ascended is the highest possible equipment, there is no tier above it yet and in theory you only need one set, you can change the stats if needed in the mystic forgeFixed that for you.^^
there is no indicator that they will remove those mystic forge recipes with HoT except community rumors
and they said there will never be a tier above it, they can’t risk to break this promise
Oh my. If you could build bridges and make bread from broken or unfullfilled promises of Anet, especially in the area of “exotic stays always top gear”, every place would be reachable by a bridge and nobody would be hungry. ^^
thats the point, with a gear treadmill you get better equipment with each Raid
Ascended is the highest possible equipment, there is no tier above it yet and in theory you only need one set, you can change the stats if needed in the mystic forge
Fixed that for you.^^
I was actually worried that my fun with GW2 would probably suffer with raids, but I stand corrected. It is already immensely amusing, especially when the
“THE END IS NEAR!”
crowd appears more and more with every message.
But come on boys, that can´t really be a problem for you, no? I mean you successfully zerked through dungeons, open world and made out like bandits with the TP, so most of you will have accumulated considerable wealth and buying a fitting armor or ascended will be a cakewalk and only peanuts for you…or not?^^
OP will be stopped at the maximum carrying capacity which is 160 spots in your inventory, then he or she can take a well deserved rest from getting 70000 pieces of junk, some hundred rares, a few exotics, and maybe, but this is a big maybe, a precursor.^^
They better not put the Greatsaw skin back in the game. I bought mine for an insanely amount of gold. It was a few hundred past a thousand.
And whose fault was that then?^^
Please stop including the word “we” in your arguments. You might not want more than 1 role in the game, but plenty of other people do, trinity or not.
Having many roles available is a good thing. Making some of those roles required is not.
I am pretty sure that there are enough people that play for example berserk but would really be more comfortable with playing something else, something more safe. Still they stay berserk to be able to stay in their groups. Is that mandatory too? Surely not mandatory be design, but mandatory by default.
I have been running a knight/cleric hybrid AH guardian in dungeons for over 2 years now, both in guild groups and pugs. Yeah, it’s not as efficient as zerker, but i find it more fun. Never seen a need to switch to dps, never seen someone that would complain (and i’m not hiding what build i run). Yeah, the “all zerk” groups are closed for me So what? There’s aways plenty of all-inclusive ones around.
No, zerk is not mandatory at all.This is the first raid Anet makes for GW2. If it is planned with a healer in mind, how do you lose time or are hampered in your playstyle if you stayon your berserk close combat warrior? It is working as intended then. You are unable to speed rush the raid, and your friend that likes to support and heal can finally do something he likes instead of just bleeding profusely when attempting to dodge this and that.
What if i don’t have any such friend? What if we have enough people for 2 raid groups, but volunteer druids for only one? What if the only person that still continues to play ranger against all the problems thic class had throughout the years, is someone that does that only because they like the Ranger (not druid) playstyle?
The numbers of people liking to play healer have always been on the low side, even in trinity games. In GW2, after 3 years of not having trinity and no dedicated healer role, those numbers are likely even smaller.
…also, if that hypothetical friend of mine was unable to dodge properly before, they wound’t be a good choice for support/heal role. When a required healer gets oneshotted because they didn’t dodge fast enough, things are likely to end up really badly for all the remaining players that depended on that healing.
I see only winners here, with the exception of the speed runners which had everything shoved up their rektums up until now.
I am not a speed runner, not by a long shot, and yet i don’t feel so optimistic about the future as you are.
If the trinity is lazy & unoriginal… then what is a group full of zerker dps classes doing the same thing?
Both are equally lazy. the difference? Latter is a lazinesss by choice, while former is a laziness required.
Being skilled is a flaw?
No. having defensive passive stats in a game where devense is mostly revolving about active binary actions that when performed well negate the whole damage (and are not based on said passives), is a flaw.
Basically, Anet dried to mix two incompatible systems, only to find out that they are still incompatible.
I don´t run zerk characters either. But many people do, despite not being comfortable with it as can be seen how they play their characters even after years of practice. And on top of that, isn´t it the purpose of Nomad, Cleric and Apothecary to get hit then and when and weather it out?
Let me give you an example of DAOC for the ranger friend:
In Avalon City, you had casual groups everywhere. There were two healers, the monk and the cleric. The cleric was a bunker healer mit strong heals, the monk a soso healer. Monk was shunned, cleric was looked for, business as intended. And even then, 10 years ago, people changed to their clerics to help their friends out for leveling in Avalon City.
So if you so insist on having a certain healer class or simply need one, why is it hard to find the good guy that is willing to do from your ranks? Are you not all looking for the hard content that makes you act as a team, or are you just a bunch of solo achievers that need other solo achievers for the content and don´t want to compromise on anything? He does not miss out on loot, it has not always to be the same guy, his friends will like him even more. Is it really so hard for your friend or you to be the good guy for just one evening? If you continue to bugger him for it everytime you want to raid so that you can stay on your kickbutt warrior, the fault for angering him is entirely yours.
Raiders have to make a desicion:
Am I here to get the loot and be a team player, or am I here to gloat and play with MY character only, no matter the cost or if it is as the expense of others. If you are of the later kind you have already wasted time just by reading this and, in my opinion, deserve to wait for your raid to start.
Their entire goal structure with raids is not just that they’re challenging, but that they remain so throughout the life of the game.
If raids are not accessible enough that normal people can do them, they’ll fail. Many, many MMOs have learned the hard way that hardcore raiders make up a tiny fraction of the population, and Anet appears to be dead-set on repeating that mistake.
Anet can’t afford to pour their finite resources into content most people can’t do, that’s a recipe for disaster.
GW2 is not so dependent on raids as other games. I don’t see a problem to make them harder so normal pugs won’t be able to complete them.
Let me help you out then with a few examples from the top of my head.
The soccer mum problem:
“Oh, I cant afford to sit 5 hours in the warroom with my buddies because I have a familiy and a job. But I have some time to brwose in my workbreak for another game that has softer content and ask my friends to join there too so that we still can hang out together.”
The casual achiever problem:
“Hm, I really want the best equpiment, but can´t get it because I lack the time. Why bother playing when I will always stay KIND OF second rate?”
The talentless collector problem:
“I collected everything in this game, but basically suck at playing GW2. Skins are not on the TP and so out of my reach. What do I do now, pay my way in?”
So it is not so much of a problem of actual content, it potential accessibility and perception. GW2 has no monthly fee so it may actually work to play hardball with casuals, but it surely won´t be a selling argument for the big market of casual gamers. I am pretty Anet also knows this and wil bend over this problem over time.
Will all of the Meta-Messiahs please hurry up and publish the exact builds you are requiring for each profession you’ll allow in your raid party? I’ll need detailed gear lists (weapon, armor, runes, sigils, trinkets) as well as skills to equip and a rotation for pressing my buttons. I’ll put my character together exactly as you require and practice until I am good enough at doing exactly what I’m told to please you. Then I will get the coveted chance to complete a raid in record-setting time. It won’t be ‘playing’ at all; it will be a job. But really, why play when you can work?
No. You won’t complete the raid in record-setting time. Without the “meta” you won’t be able to finish it at all.
It´s nonsense like this that keeps me wondering how mankind was ever able to leave the planet or build a better weapon than the bow. I am pretty sure that a mobile phone could navigate a space shuttle to the moon today or guide a rocket because it has vastly more power than the best computers in the 60s. I imagine Wernher von Braun sitting at NASA headquarters, complaining that his rockets are not meta enough to even lift off.^^
Any undertaking has a low limit, the absolute minimum to beat it you want to achieve it. Reach it, and the loot is yours.
So saying that a strict meta will be necessary to beat it is
a) pure speculation at this point
b) unlikely because Anet has hopefully playtested it over and over again with different setups
It is surely right that the meta will allow it to be done in record time or at it´s best, but claims that it will be impossible without if Anet is not specifically looking for this are plain weird.
And who knows, maybe it is designed as a cakewalk for experienced raiders, and as challenging for casual gamers?
Premise A : PvE is so easy that it can be done by everyone
Premise B : Hardcore players demand hard content
Premise C : Raids are hard by default
Solution A : Make raids hard for casuals, and so so for hardcore players. The first are happy because their content gets harder without being too hard, the second one got much less arrows in their quiver to complain because raids are there, so any complains about them missing are pointless. Good for the longterm health, bad for the top players.
Solution B : Make hard raids for everyone. The casuals will need help or pay their way in, the hardcore players are happy because hard content is hard. Bad for the long term health because of lacking fun for the casual gamers, good for the aquisation of new, hardcore gamer groups.
Solution C : Make hard or softer raids and abandon support for it over time for the next fotm projekt. The one size fits all solution many companies use for the sake of keeping things simple and manageable for them. As long as it is not broken, it is working as intended. Lukewarm for everyone, but maybe enoguh to continue to collect paychecks.
I don’t understand how you can say a grand total of 20 skins across all the Halloween skins from the original event is a “market”… it’ll kitten off a grand total of 20 people in game and give thousands the chance they’ve been waiting for for years now.
I say reintroduce the skins, if anything, make them a gemshop item or tie them to the candy corn cob token system.
you mean the people who have had 3 years to buy the skins but have chosen not too?
i wanted the skin, i grinded like crazy and i bought the skin. (back when it was 1,3k, but gold was a lot harder to come by)
right now the skins are around 4k, spend afew hours playing and you can easily get 40g, thats 1% done already, do that each day and you’ll have the skin by december 10th.THE SKINS ARE STILL AVAILABLE TO THOSE WHO WANT THEM.
the fact that there are still skins available but none of you are willing to buy them speaks volumes about how much you actually care about them.
they’re there, go get them if you want them, otherwise stop trying to devalue it for those of us that did the grind that you CBA to do.
If I ever should even consider to buy a skin for 4K Gold, I really hope someone is around to slap me kitten the back of the head so that I can come to my senses again^^
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Torolan.5816
Did you know that many actual AAA companies have their main seats in the same building in “Backwatertown” in the middle of the USA, where they pay the same % of taxes that your wife or man pays if she has or he a minimum wage part time job? Taxes mean nothing for companies over a certain size, sadly.
A product that is not ripped from your shelves as soon as it appears there is not automatically a failure. It could take some time or a better public relation or adds before it soars. A product that is still collecting dust in your shelves after you advertised it is either made of garbage, unattractive, had a really bad marketing strategy, another product that is simply better than it, is too expensive for the common customer but not exclusive enough for the luxury types or is just plain useless.
There are a lot of great products that vanished from the markets because they were too good and too sturdy(pantyhose for example. A little bit thicker, and they would accompany a woman her whole life), and others stay there in spite of being nearly useless(like any eyepot or apple toy) or substitutable by almost every other similar product on the market, but still it sells like hot cake because people like it for some wacky reason.
We can already safely assume that the maketing campain of Anet was probably garbage at this point, the backlash was terrific and so much of a kick in the balls for them that they even had to make a better offer for the customers with the extra character place. Even if HoT is the best expansion since the invention of the wheel, you can bet your lucky dollar that there was major money going down the drain for them with their first, disastrous offer. What damage was done to the PR department is hard to calculate in money, but it surely has not helped at all.
I think you’re somehow under the impression that current end game PvE – Fractals and the like, is actually hard and that’s why people don’t like it or can’t get into it. That’s BS – prebuffing and active mitigation isn’t hard at all, but currently the end game stuff is fully broken. Anyone who does Fractals frequently will tell you that lvl 50 fractals are the easiest level because everyone who joins knows what they’re doing. That’s what makes people dislike it and keeps them from getting into it – they just have to learn a few basic mechanics and then it’s easy – the learning curve is steep but VERY short, and people are always disappointed in the end. A meta group doesn’t need any skill to win, they just push icebow 4. Most bosses can be killed in less than 30 seconds. If they ever want to have rewarding challenging content then we can’t have fights that short. Anybody can focus on dodging and their rotation for 30 seconds – fewer can for 10mins, and then healing becomes necessary to right any slip ups.
I would be seriously astounded if average Joe(or anyone in the case of Mai Trin with the cannon phases) could finish Diviner/Ettin and company/Mai Trin and some others in 30 seconds without exploiting.
I also know there are some guys out there that are seriously good with that stuff but with 30 seconds you are pushing it to the absolute limit in fractals, asking for all the stars to align in your favor and talking about 1 guy in hundreds each.
I am pretty sure that there are enough people that play for example berserk but would really be more comfortable with playing something else, something more safe. Still they stay berserk to be able to stay in their groups. Is that mandatory too? Surely not mandatory be design, but mandatory by default.
This is the first raid Anet makes for GW2. If it is planned with a healer in mind, how do you lose time or are hampered in your playstyle if you stayon your berserk close combat warrior? It is working as intended then. You are unable to speed rush the raid, and your friend that likes to support and heal can finally do something he likes instead of just bleeding profusely when attempting to dodge this and that. I see only winners here, with the exception of the speed runners which had everything shoved up their rektums up until now.
Protip : people that are so bad/slow that they’re having trouble surviving current content in zerker gear will most likely be even worse off in raids – that is if Anet keeps their word and raids are actually difficult.
There’s no winning for the slow and average and unskilled players here – even if you can’t dodge all the damage raids will require coordination, skill and reflex – and if you didn’t have them before you probably won’t be raiding very well.It’s the speed clear people that win the most here – because they adapt the easiest and will probably find only other speed clear and hardcore minded players to go with on raids – while most other players sit on the sidelines.
Protip: Even seasoned berserk players fall then and when when facing the Ettin/Shaman combo or the Fireshaman/Diviner/Giant Ice Elemental in fractals and they don´t pay at least good attention. Please don´t tell me it does not happen, we both know it does.
Depending on the difficulty of the raid, you will probably be surprised how many people who think they can play actually can´t play that well. But hey, maybe I am wrong, then good for you. I am actually anxious to visit the forums in some months and see how things have developed.^^
I am pretty sure that there are enough people that play for example berserk but would really be more comfortable with playing something else, something more safe. Still they stay berserk to be able to stay in their groups. Is that mandatory too? Surely not mandatory be design, but mandatory by default.
This is the first raid Anet makes for GW2. If it is planned with a healer in mind, how do you lose time or are hampered in your playstyle if you stayon your berserk close combat warrior? It is working as intended then. You are unable to speed rush the raid, and your friend that likes to support and heal can finally do something he likes instead of just bleeding profusely when attempting to dodge this and that. I see only winners here, with the exception of the speed runners which had everything shoved up their rektums up until now.
but the problem is, there are never enough of these people to warrant forcing other people to NEED them. Its like if they required you to travel with a guy who wears a beenie to go to the amusement park
sure its really nice for the beenie loving public, its not very nice for people who dont like to wear beenies, and there are way more of them. Who wants to sit around waiting for the beenie guy, or being forced to be the beenie guy for a day.
the reason i say most people dont like it, is because tank and healer are the MAIN bottleneck in any game i have played/heard of that needs them. Years of product research and statistics back this up.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/2r22ai/duty_finder_wait_times_as_dps_150/
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/2ww2fh/how_it_feels_to_soloqueue_as_a_dps/
https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/1pcmvj/que_times_for_dps/
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/79252/hows-the-wait-time-for-dungeons-as-dps
And then we are at the team building stuff again. Lets take on your amusement park example. Are you willing to wear a beenie if it brings you and your friends in the park? You call it unjustified, I think it is a social spot for someone who likes beenies nd would elsewise not be allowed in the park.
I am pretty sure that there are enough people that play for example berserk but would really be more comfortable with playing something else, something more safe. Still they stay berserk to be able to stay in their groups. Is that mandatory too? Surely not mandatory be design, but mandatory by default.
This is the first raid Anet makes for GW2. If it is planned with a healer in mind, how do you lose time or are hampered in your playstyle if you stayon your berserk close combat warrior? It is working as intended then. You are unable to speed rush the raid, and your friend that likes to support and heal can finally do something he likes instead of just bleeding profusely when attempting to dodge this and that. I see only winners here, with the exception of the speed runners which had everything shoved up their rektums up until now.
I wouldn’t call those people “elitists” but still they are a problem. It’s even worse when it doesn’t matter (skill/gear wise) which character you bring, like for example guild missions. How many times I’ve waited for that guy (different person every time, not the same one) to come to guild missions because he was now playing “a new main” that didn’t have any waypoints anywhere and had to run. And when told to get one of the 100% exploration characters they reply with “but this is my NEW main”! I really hate those kinds of players and can’t imagine them ever playing any type of content that requires more complex and specific roles.
If you have an properly geared and ready to go character that can fill a specific role needed by your guild, then why not change?
The real issue comes when nobody has such a character but they want to do the raid. What happens then?
Elitist is maybe indeed a little harsh, but they certainly are not teamplayers.
Regarding the problem that no one has a ranger in that group of 10 man, I highly doubt that if they are not relatively new in the game. Maybe he is not properly equipped, but then he just goes in with what he finds in his vault and the raid gets a little bit shaky if not one or more of the more seasoned players can up his game considerably. I am really sure that a raid won´t be planned on maximum gear anyway, so a little less performance should be acceptable.
And the ranger still won´t be the only healer available, just the best. It´s just the mindset of people that are unwilling to accept a viable solution because it is not the optimal solution. Which is really mindblowing if you think about it, a group of 10 people don´t make the raid they plan for days because they only have an ele or a hastily modified bearbow instead of a fully clad druid and probably don´t even try because they automatically assume they will fail or spend hours over hours in the raid to no avail.
And your point is?
We have a group of 10 people. Are you the only one with a mandatory ranger? Probably not. If you are the good guy and change to the ranger, it´s an act of generousity from your side. Or do you assume that you are automatically the one to be kicked if a player that is willing to play a ranger appears on the stage? If so, why? It´s just that one seat in the party is unavailable to you now, not the content.
I indeed consider people that only want to play their way elitists. It does not even matter if this is a meta zerker, it could also be the guy that insist of being a thief, warrior, mesmer or whatever. If a group of 10! people wants to do something and can´t because no one of them is willing to not play their first choice of character in it, they probably should not do anything together at all in this constellation.
you think you are sticking it to elitists/meta players but you are not. They always play the meta, and they will be kicking their former party mates if they arent the meta. They only did zerk because it was the meta.
you are however sticking it to players who enjoyed combat actually being about how well they played, as opposed to matching a mathematic requirement of dmg taken per minute and how well someone else can heal per minute
So you agree with me then that a meta (zerk right now) group is not there for the group experience but just to quickly waltz over things and even eats it´s own children if they don´t follow the meta?
This would be funny because it happens to be an argument at the foremost front of raiders that a raid, the ultimate goal of elitist gameplay as it seems, is a team building experience first and a hunt for fame, wealth and recognition only in a secondary way…
but good guys sometimes take one for the team.
that’s kind of the point. It’s a thing that I had to do in all MMOs and the reason why I liked this one is because I didn’t need to do it here. Essentially you’re saying “you can no longer play the way that you want to play, but it’s okay because I always wanted to heal”. In fact it’s not okay at all.
You can not play the way you want? Why? You don´t have to be the one that changes characters. If you are the one that changes to the healer it´s your choice.
Try reading that again with the thought that this is exactly what is told non-zerkers for years at this point and if you, the good guy in this case, have any guilt to bear for it or if the accusations leveled at you for being a selfish “I want to play my way” guy are maybe uncalled for.
Raids are either a group experience that are together to have fun in which case it is not important who plays what, or a bunch of elitists who want to play their way at all costs.
The real problem here, is that ANET is not just making these dedicated healers useful, they are making them mandatory to success in raids. This violates their entire phiw policy. Success in a raid will apparently require these healers….you will have to bring one…whether you want to or not…if you plan on completing the content.
But isn´t a raid the epitome of greatness and adaptability anyway, so one of the team is of course the adaptable one and the healer for the evening? If a healer is really going to be mandatory, we are then back at where people that ask for gear from others are now in the position to play something they are either ill suited for or dislike.
Sounds fair to me as being on the other side of that stuff for years, but probably not to you.^^
The logic here is so twisted and convoluted that I am having trouble following it. How is the one person in the group that is only good for one thing (healing)…supposed to be the adaptable one. Are you saying they are adaptable because they have a high healing specialization and the other raid members do not? That may be the case with the ventari, but not with the druid. No one really wants a ranger in a group now, and they certainly won’t when druid becomes available. That leaves you no adaptation….just a mandatory expectation. As far as the rest of the group not being adaptable….they are currently (with the exception of necromancers) and have always been adaptable. That’s what the damage/support/control foundation of the game was previously built upon. The majority of the professions could do all three of these things….just now it likely won’t be enough because of the ramped up healing requirement they are putting into raids to force healers on us. Now we apparently are going to have to take probably two dedicated healers to each raid. If you think the damage dealing players are going to be the only ones expected to ping gear with this new setup….you are in for a rude awakening. If a ranger/druid walks in with anything but full nomad…I’ll leave the result to your imagination. Does that sound fair to you?
It does sound fair to me if I want to play such a character instead of a berserker geared one. Suddenly, one choice(Berserk) turned into at least 2(Berserk X or Ranger Healer) choices. There is also apothecary or cleric for the healing output, so i am not sure that nomad is really needed.
He is indeed the adaptable one because he is willing to change on the healer instead of adamantly demanding to be a damage machine. I am pretty sure that most veterans have classes that can heal really well even right now and still use them as damage dealers in 99% of all cases. Of course there will be long faces if you have to park your damage dealer for a run, but good guys sometimes take one for the team. And raids are a team effort and not about rewards or being an elitist if the propaganda for them told me right, so what could you do better for your team?
In general, I have no problem getting a seat that is given to me or anyone else that is not berserk because it is mandatory. A seat is a seat. It was mandatory to be berserk for years if you wanted to be seen as viable for certain types of content by some people and even then, you were excluded if you were a ranger or a necro. I don´t even have a necro and usually play guardian, so you are barking up the wrong tree anyway if you think that I want to press my ranger into raid groups at all costs.
So it is just that I enjoy using the “convoluted” logic because is it the raider mantra, specialize in damage or get out. Now replace damage with healing, and you have the same reasoning.
The real problem here, is that ANET is not just making these dedicated healers useful, they are making them mandatory to success in raids. This violates their entire phiw policy. Success in a raid will apparently require these healers….you will have to bring one…whether you want to or not…if you plan on completing the content.
But isn´t a raid the epitome of greatness and adaptability anyway, so one of the team is of course the adaptable one and the healer for the evening? If a healer is really going to be mandatory, we are then back at where people that ask for gear from others are now in the position to play something they are either ill suited for or dislike.
Sounds fair to me as being on the other side of that stuff for years, but probably not to you.^^
That´s what I love most about this forum, people always assume the worst to happen and are never satisfied with a viable solution that is not the most efficient.
How hard can it be to tell on TS that the ranger should not use the 4 on longbow, put his tanky bear pet away for some other, totally irrelevant pet and put some healing gear on?^^
It’s hard enough to get a pug ranger to run spotter, let alone swap his entire build, gear, and playstyle for you.
Pushing trinity forces an even more strict meta.
I assume that you do not make raids with pugs, so your ranger is at least a guild member. If you do not know him personally because the guild is big, someone in the 10 man group probably will and can explain why this and that has to be fitted on a friend to friend conversation. Of course this will take time, but you already waited for so long until all the 10 desired people showed up, why not the 5 minutes it takes to refit the ranger?
Of course he won´t be brilliant and the gear will be suboptimal, and this is where the complains are really coming about. Whether it concerns the zerk meta or trinity, everything below the absolut best is not an option for the vocal raid and/or zerk faction. The funny thing about this is that most zerkers/raiders probably brutaly suck at GW2 in most parts, like in the good old times where people where struck down in droves by the Dwayna statue or the Priest of Grenth and his merry men in attempts to zerg them down, when they are not in their respective comfort zones and do not even know or acknowlege it.
The problem that ANET has is with berserker gear is that people use it because it’s the fastest way to complete content. The only way ANET can get people to stop using it is to make content that is impossible to complete with it.
If there were stat combinations that were impossible to complete content with, and you joined a PUG with a player using that stat combination, would you want to know about it before the run ?
Or would you prefer to attempt a run that can not possibly succeed ?Most people would want to know before the run so, because that means they have more time to run the content with a group that can succeed.
So I see four ways forwards for ANET:
– Berserkers remains the most effective gear. Nothing much changes.
– ANET changes numbers so that some other gear with 3 damage stats becomes more effective than berserkers. The only change is that instead of people talking about bersekers, people talk about the other gear.
– People need to take a defensive stat on their gear. A number of people who aren’t paying attention will keep using their berserker gear and trying to take it into content that they can’t complete. Causing other people to want to identify them quickly, leading to them demanding gear checking options. Even people who don’t care what you’re running now.
– ANET makes gear with three DPS stats cease to exist. Forcing everyone currently using it to pick a different stat combination.
Debatable. I would anytime enter a group of 4 expert zerkers and be sure that the content is done very fast, but give me 4 so so zerkers and watch me suffer through relatively easy content with my soldier guard kneeling down over and over again to scratch people from the floor.
Zerker gear should be expert gear, not something you slap on every guy that stepped in the game 2 weeks ago. But no, people stuff their new guild members in these armors and hope that they will learn and pick up so fast that they don´t feel overly annoyed by them. What this means with pugs probably does not need an explanation.
Is there any content right now that is not manageable with a ranger or a necro in group, the red headed step children of group content? No. People just don´t like these classes because they have opinions that are set in stone, or because some Youtube min-max moron said so and they only accept the best instead of just viable or second best. Necro and Ranger = useless, so no place for them. People prove every day that this is complete BS, but still the opinion is held.
You may be right with raids, I can´t answer that without trying the GW2 version of it and someone explaining it to my in detail why class X can´t do the same as class Y even if their skills are similar.
If the raid boss is invulnerable(like Tequatl once) or at least highly resistant against crit damage, we will probably see berserk getting rarer as standard gear because I guess that people will rather take the slower damage against standard mobs than attack the raid boss with inapropriate gear.
Alright, I’ve been seeing this comment come up a lot when concerning the Druid. People have a fit thinking that they will have to wait hours for a Druid on lfg. My only response to this is that many players have level 80 Rangers on their account. If we are assuming raids are truly difficult content, then I believe it is safe to assume that many of the players interested in the content will have an 80 for every profession. If your group needs a Druid, someone can simply switch.
The last thing you want on a raid is some bear-bowing pug trying to heal you.
That´s what I love most about this forum, people always assume the worst to happen and are never satisfied with a viable solution that is not the most efficient.
How hard can it be to tell on TS that the ranger should not use the 4 on longbow, put his tanky bear pet away for some other, totally irrelevant pet and put some healing gear on?^^
If you look in the lfg tool, there are already enough groups looking for this class and that equipment only who are willing to wait for their choice to appear while being equallly unwilling to accept some class that can get the job done but is only second best in it. So if we´re honest we never left the required role party pose, it was just recruited from a larger pool of people and not only Tanks and Healers.
Underwater. The dolphin maze is just a horrible mess of an encounter and even at lower levels already stuffed with krait. Even if you follow the signs, it is so hard to find and I keep on swimming in circles until someone finally manages to find the passage.
Not a big fan of swamp either, for the problems already described.
Undoubtfuly, the Berserker armor requires the most skill for me.
But speaking from Fractals as one of the more challenging contents up until now, mobs like the Diviner or the Champion Ettin will strike a bad or even average Zerker down at least once in an encounter, and if you do not have a Thief/Warrior heavy group that is a heavy burden to bear if the mob decides that he wants to finish the downed player. And no, you can´t stack in the corner with the Ettin or burst it down quickly if everyone is a Zerker like the three poor Golems in Sorrows, it simply does not work in that way and outlasts your attempts to down it in a 1 minute time window.
So is that something you really want everyone to wear if you want to design a game for everyone, not just fast reflex players? In every game I played up until now, the DpS guy was the most challenging class to stay alive but still the most available to get because people are impatient for whatever reason while playing games.
you shouldn’t have zerker gear from beginning.
if you decided to abuse a system you have to pay for it later. this is how life works
Seriously, what are you even talking about? Like are you trolling? They chose an armor stat and now they are abusing the game? You cannot be serious.
What do you mean by trolling…
When everyone is choosing one single stat from millions available to “skip” or “outsmart” the game how it is intended to play it’s abusing the system.
Dungeons ringing a bell???there are videos of people afk auto attacking bosses like lupicus to death in cleric gear with things like heal signet or signet of restoration. it takes hours. how is that more skillful than learning a boss’ animations to know when to dodge/block? but by all means continue to get bent out of shape because some people are able to play the game better and more efficiently than others.
That is basically admiting that Zerk meta is not working as intended. Just because Cleric armor allows you to do the same in a much longer time does not validate the Berserker approach, it just makes it more efficient. Pretty sure that soloing Lupi in general is not! working as intended, but Anet turns a blind eye on it because they have not much left to offer for the hardcore gang elsewise. Maybe this will stop with the introduction of raids, but I doubt it-.
OP, it´s exactly right when someone said that you rode the zerker horse as long as it was healthy and the fastest horse in town, and now it is foaming at the mouth and you are not sure if it staggers and falls and you probably foam too at the thought that you have to buy a new horse with saddlebags and saddle etc etc…
But let people keep their meta when they have at least the manners to shut up when they join casual, non zerk groups, nobody likes a smarty pants know it all.
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I play without sound 9 out of 10 times and even I think this is a great idea that will make me want to play with sound in HoT again.
Great detail that makes sense, very much appreciated.
It´s one thing to throw a bucket full of bloodstone dust or similar garbage in the garbage bin. Alhough I admit that I was hesitant at first to do even that, but the large quantities finally gave me no choice but to do it.
If you´re of a similar mindset like I am, you would never throw an ascended weapon or armor away or sell it for 1 Gold. Never ever.
So this was not only a much asked for comfort function for people like me, it also helps to close the gap between newer and older players who are not as jaded as us veterans but want equipment like we have and maybe even like it to play a little bit with their build instead of sitting on it like a mother hen.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Torolan.5816
Let’s say that if you give me 200G today that in 3 months I will buy you a precursor of your choice but you have 24 hours after we hit that 3-month mark before the your ability to obtain the precursor expires. You’re saying that the deal that you just bought for 200G has no value beyond that 200G simply because you could not be online during that 24 hours to claim your precursor? You’d be wrong.
Actually what you’re describing right now is a scam. If money is exchanged you expect definite results. Meaning that if you put up such a claim I would expect you to send me the precursor, I’m online or not. Else of course that 200G deal has no value if it’s a 50/50 chance of that 200G being just thrown away. Meaning I wouldn’t make such a deal with you. And I’m not making a deal with Anet either, based on future content.
Actually, it’s not a scam. I tried to keep things incredibly simple for you because I don’t think you have had any exposure into the business world. The point being was that deal had a value tied to it regardless as to whether there was a possibility that you may or may not be able to claim it within the 24-hour window.
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It´s indeed not a scam, but the joke would still be on the seller, at least in my country.
Let´s take the dreaded wedding cake example:
-A wedding cake delivered on the day of the wedding is a job well done and a happy bride. Had to argue for compensation here.
-A bad wedding cake that gives the flu to everyone. You can ask for compensation because it was bad and did not come as agreed on in the contract, but the contract itself stays valid.
-A wedding cake delivered on the day after the wedding is a mess and has no worth for anyone. Contract is off because the time window was so clearly limited and the purpose was so clear that no right to give back or send it to a later date can save the purpose. Breach of contract.
-A wedding cake not delivered is another story at all and indeed a scam.
With a limited time table of the offer of the precursor being available, there is no such clear purpose. The buyer wants to use it in general, not only on his wedding day or at one special reason. So you can easily give the precursor after getting notified that you´re late. If not, you need to compensate it´s worth or go to court.
Edit: Well, there are some exceptions with foreign goods shipped into your respective country where right on time reigns supreme, but again, the buyer is in a protected position most of the time. Depending on what both parties agreed on, there are safety nets everywhere with business agents snug in between.
(edited by Torolan.5816)
As much as I personally dislike RNG when the chances are really low, it is a shot of excitement for the addicted. I personally know reasonable and educated people that can burn through an evening of grinding and go to bed satisfied if they found something only remotely good and thrilled if they found a jackpot item. So I am not really sure if a group reward should be superior to a solo reward, coming from a business position only with the idea that I can fill my servers with solo grinders if nothing else.
The idea that group content should always be better of course also appeals to me for the sake of fairness and for the pain to assemble 5 or 10 people in TS.
This game should of course also include soloable content for the casual people that are looking for some simple click loot repeat after work. Every MMO that wants to succeeed should have that in my opinion. Raiders don´t have to like it, but it should be there. I am not a fan of raids, but if there are enough people playing them, who am I to forbid them?
And who said otherwise?
Skitz.
It is probably a bit out of context if he just meant that they should not get big ressources of develompement, but still he says that Anet should not cater to solo people. And this will never fly, they should invest in them and you can bet your lucky dollar on it that they will do it again in the future after their futile attempt to satify the hardcore crowd is over. Not gloating or suggesting here, I just think this is the ebb and flow of this game. The number of annoyed dads, soccer moms and other people that are deeply rooted in society pay the bills for Anet, not the basement dweller hardcore gamer who wants nearly everything hard and at best have received it yesterday already, which would probably be only possible if raids were random from start to start, but this would probably be impossible to make.
Just look at Eve online. Open World PvP, a thing you often hear from hardcore gamers, has cost CCP hundreds of thousands accounts over time, and look how the simple promises of exciting but casual star citizen makes people flock at their banner, bombarding them with money for some simple beginners videos. Yes, I know, you can play solo in eve, but it´s mostly garbage and really annoying then. Do you play a game to be harrased if you only have 1 or 2 hours for yourself in the evening? Certainly not.
What does that mean? The market is there and the ocean is big, but he biggest fish is only just willing to swim in the deepest depth where he can only attract a few other predatory fish with his lumi lamp to swim with him.
In DAOC, Camlann, the open PvP server, was a piece of garbage and always the smallest servers in the years I played DAOC. I am very sure that a large majority of DAOC players never set a foot in it, and if they did, unlogged quickly.
Maybe you think right now “Huh, why is this guy mumbling about open PvP in a raid theme?” Because of the mindset of hardcore gamers, their raid/group obsession and their possible manpower in general.
I actually have to kind of agree with Ohoni regarding guilds. I joined a mass guild by randomly accepting an invitation and met there a few people I talk with in TS now before they broke away from the guid. I even joined their new guild, but I divide my representation between the mass guild where I can mind my own business and the smaller, more personal one.
I also know some people that have one man guilds for whatever reason, most just don´t want to be bothered to be asked to join a random guild or want the bank account for reasons of space.
This game should of course also include soloable content for the casual people that are looking for some simple click loot repeat after work. Every MMO that wants to succeeed should have that in my opinion. Raiders don´t have to like it, but it should be there. I am not a fan of raids, but if there are enough people playing them, who am I to forbid them?
But contrary to soloable stuff, I don´t think raids are a must, neither are dungeons, fractals or duelling(to take one in that is often asked for and not available too) if you make a “theme park” mmo some people mentioned here. I loved open world stuff like ls1, but sadly, it did not generate enough revenue for Anet to continue it as priority, so they try to attract other people right now. Understandable in my eyes.
Playerbase abuse. Or, as I call it, tough love.
Tough love would be if they actively worked with the person in order to help them improve.
Most of the time it’s just a paper thin justification to be rude.
Tough love is tough love. It’s motivation to get better.
Player A: “You suck apples. This run is taking forever because of you. Your out of position and you’re way behind where your class should be. Don’t join up again until you learn better. Oh, and your rotation is terrible. Work on that.”
Then Player B, if of Mindset A, gets kittened. He wants to put Player A in his place. He reads guides, changes his build, practices his class more. He gets better.
Then he does a raid again and does excellent.
Then he morphs into a Player A and passes on the tough love to the next struggling player who needs it.
But if Player B is of mindset B (Entitled, Thin-skinned, Whiny, SJW, etc.) (s)he never raids again. Makes posts on forums whining.
If GW2 is full of Mindset B (which it is), raids become easier nerf after nerf. Rewards become non-exclusive. Raids die.
If GW2 is full of Mindset A (which it isn’t), raids remain hard and get harder. Rewards remain exclusive. Raiding becomes a thing.
By the way, Player C is the dude who reads all this happening, feels bad but kinda agrees with Player A. He’d put it in better terms and more delicately (treating Player B like a flower) but he also thinks Player B sucks and needs to improve.
Sorry, but that is just plain wrong. Even in confrontational child care, a relatively new approach to child care which does teach children and young adults how stupid their deeds are by showing them with tough love, a child that really tries to better itself gets rewarded. The educator is not an unforgiving policeman that accepts only the best a child can do, he accepts the best effort of the child if it is suitable for society.
Most people over the age of 12 would think that Player A is an elitist moron. I especially was confused with “putting Player A in it´s place”. That´s not how education and leading by example works. You can´t put an educator in his place, an educator is impersonal when on the job. All you can expect is respect for your station as educator. I am not angry at my children as persons if they behave bad in Kindergarten, I am angry with their deeds(I work in day care). None of my kids strive to be like me as a person, and they should not.
Some people would call player B just sensible, which is not whiny or entitiled. Sensible persons are the cornerstone of any society, you can´t build a society on people with the mindset of Generals Patton or Montogmery and expect it to last long. Of course they also have a place thre, but it is no surprise that most strong men regimes turn out to be really bad for everyone except an elite.
I can agree with player C, except for the sugar coating part. You can agree with the opinion of A that B is not good, but a loud mouthed rambling rarely brings you a success with more sophisticated and intelligent people, probably rather a
“Ok, this guy´s really good at his job. He´s a true moron too, but the boss won´t let him go because his work is fine. So I have to politely deal with him.”
I don’t know anyone who has stayed on their home server for 3 years. (bronze league)
Miller´s Sound for 3 years. I don´t pay my money for a mess that is exclusively to blame on the shoulders of the designer. I would even stay if I would have enough money to burn it in the garden for my personal enjoyment, even with it being a junk full of unreasonable Skritts sometimes.^^
So yes, I object to the idea that a significant portion of the playerbase can´t make it whatever they do, how often they try and should not even make it.
Setting aside the weird examples everyone gives, that’s how video game rewards work.
So how do you expect to have a significant player base for raids if you rule out significant portions of the players by lack of skill already? And why did you argue with me earlier in this thread with you stating that anybody can do it if he really tries and puts effort and training into it?
Call me old fashioned if you want, but this reeks indeed very much of elitism for me. Not unfounded elitism probably, but with an attitude I don´t want to be a part of.
I’m still waiting for that game that gives all the rewards to everyone.
And I am still waiting for the explanation of why we argued then, so I guess we will both go home without an answer.
How much is significant for you? 10%? 50%?
I don´t think that Elitists are unfriendly persons in general. A well meaning elite can be good for everyone else too if they share a little bit of their success(Sharing is not showing off, mind you) or at least don´t mind if their exclusive content gets devalued in time and they can aim for the next gem instead after a while.
This interaction theory is probably pretty neat, but how does ist pay bills for Anet if interaction already counts as success? If a would be raider group tries a few times, failes and give up, how can this be good for the long term health? If a significant number of these people leave for being forcefully put in the backseat regarding, lets say, legendary armor, things are not looking good. However, I agree with it being a good band aid for angry shareholders until Anet has to close shop because the foundation has become too small.
I am also pretty sure that the police gets reprimanded, at least here, if they have to few recruits from the start and rattle the cage so hard that they only have a selected few left. Politicians start to scream and shout, scared citizens complain, and the police tries to wiggle out of it by saying that people just did not cut it or did not put in much effort. So you would be the police commisioner trying to wiggle out from under my protest as a citizen right now, or not? Who is in the right? The elitist police force that is not satisfied with a sporty guy and a brain that closely did not make it, or the citizens who just want a guy in a police uniform that can fluently speak and run quickly compared to them? And even then, 20 years later, the police car yawns if Officer Once Fit heaves himself in the police car somehow and can´t be fired because he is working for life for the state? I honestly don´t know.
My solution would be a medal system. Someone who receives the medal of honor can have served in the same war as the guy that has served there and only received a medal of good conduct. If the later one has for example given covering fire for the guy that received the medal of honor, was he less valuable then? The hero still gets the glory in that system, but the other bguy goes home with a pension too.
(edited by Torolan.5816)
So yes, I object to the idea that a significant portion of the playerbase can´t make it whatever they do, how often they try and should not even make it.
Setting aside the weird examples everyone gives, that’s how video game rewards work.
So how do you expect to have a significant player base for raids if you rule out significant portions of the players by lack of skill already? And why did you argue with me earlier in this thread with you stating that anybody can do it if he really tries and puts effort and training into it?
Call me old fashioned if you want, but this reeks indeed very much of elitism for me. Not unfounded elitism probably, but with an attitude I don´t want to be a part of.
Base access to raids is available for anyone (like in your example anyone can take the college test to be a police man). Success in raids, is not, is this not what you’re arguing against us for? you’re aware that part of raids is that significant portion of the playerbase can’t successfully complete it and you feel thats a bad thing?
You may be confusing skill and effort, everyone puts effort in (This is why I always laugh when people say in relation to rare items “Oh they can be rare but if someone puts effort in they should be able to get it”, that’s not a rare item everyone who wants it gets it.). Effort just means you are trying , maybe even going all out. But effort alone does not make it, It’s entirely possible to try your best and fail.
Skill is how effective your efforts are, it’s a combination of natural talents,luck, training, knowledge etc. It’s the sum of factors that make your efforts count for more.As to the leader thing, I can’t speak for other guild groups but in mine all our top tier players are or have been guild leaders in the past and we just swap roles when needed. So if I was say the raid leader and I couldn’t attend one of them would take over.
Hm, this clears up pretty much for me i I get you right. So I can become a firefighter(raider) if I:
a) pass the college level test to show my mental progress
b) pass the physical fitness test to show my bodily abilities
c) need to have luck
So everyone can enter the police station and say:
“Well, I can come through your door, but I can´t be a policeman because how hard I try is irrelevant.”
So yes, I object to the idea that a significant portion of the playerbase can´t make it whatever they do, how often they try and should not even make it. I have no concrete numbers, but I am pretty sure that there are not many men and women who are firefighters compared to the general population who are not. Does indeed not sound like a very promising and sustainable playerbase for me.
There’s a wonderful invention called a calendar, which allows all the members to mark down days they are free each week. While I hope raid selling isn’t possible/made banable, you are making it seem like more work than it is. use the calendar to avoid conflicts, any un-resolvables use a randomiser.
Logistics , micro-management and good planning are all aspects of a raid too, it gives it the feeling of a proper military operation as opposed to the haphazard play that the open world is most of the time. Like your guild is actually a guild of trained adventurers rather than mindless ability spammers.
Now you make me curious(not with the calendar of course^^).
Are raids now accessible to anyone that can follow commands or not? I don´t know if you have military experience, but according to the trained adventurers aka strike teams like GSG9, Navy Seals etc etc not everybody can join if he puts effort in it. I´ve seen people try to become (just) policemen or firefighers who were as fit and learned as possible for them, but had to give up after several attempts because they simply did not cut it in one or another way. I don´t know about your country, but we don´t simply stuff a stupid gorilla in a policeman uniform and send him on the streets, they have to pass a college entry level test just to join the police.
And speaking of the leader, and the leutnant he will probably need if he can´t make it for weeks, what does the rest of the team? Hope that the temporary leader somehow cuts it?
But that does not cancel out the problem. It rather additionally fires it, or not? Lets say a raid group does it´s success on Monday. Tuesday, all 10 people are there and want a piece of the cake that is selling the last place. What to do?
Sell multiple times and rotate out. This may not be a huge issue on who gets to sit out first or not as over the course of the week, different players will be available at different times or may not want to raid that particular night anyway.
Have two people leave at the end, but give them a cut of the profits after the gold from selling the run is collected.
But isn´t that not a lot of micro management that really requires a raid by plan in a logistic aspect too? I can´t see many people wanting to bind this stone around their neck, maybe to jump from the bridge or something like that.
“Let´s see, we did the raid on wednesday. Until next wednesday, we have 6 chances to make it again by selling it. Who is there? Ok, 17 people. Who wants in? 12. Hm.”
Opens excel.
“Ok, according to my plan, Steve had 12 raid money, Maria 16, Frank 21 and Bob 27. so Bob and Frank are out and Steve and Maria are in today.”
“Yes, I know Frank, you have only time today, so you´re in and Steve is out…sigh.”
Sounds complicated to me and requires a really dedicated gamer and planer. And you don´t have set a suitable price, thought over individual expenses and people who have to rush out for an emergency or because it took to long and they have an important date with substitue players waiting to be managed too. And you also have not even sold it already. Kudos to you if you manage all of this without getting whispered angrily or needing aspirin after a while.^^
But that does not cancel out the problem. It rather additionally fires it, or not? Lets say a raid group does it´s success on Monday. Tuesday, all 10 people are there and want a piece of the cake that is selling the last place. What to do?
I don’t disagree at all with the prospect of people finding their ways around a difficult objective. In fact Arah P4 runners selling their spots for gold is a perfect example of this. But I doubt they will remove the novelty, the Legendary Armor whether it be for the very slight convenience of changing stats to perhaps its impressive visual effect whatever it may be will still be a good to be earned or bought. I believe Colin also mentioned how raids won’t be any different in difficulty a year from their release, they will still retain that same bar of success and failure. I’ll have to go find that clip in the Raid announcement…
Does that mean 9-man guildmates selling boss runs in LA? Perhaps. It still signifies that players are putting a solid effort to doing the work, and this could hold especially true if the raid is tightly tuned so a 1-man handicap is extremely tough! Solo Lupi runs are a prime example of how players are more than willing to hop through hoops for a challenge, but that novelty has had years to mold, these players need something new to keep them around.
Let´s follow that thought for a moment then.
To do the raid at first, you need 10 dedicated people that put tooth and nail into it. After a while, the raid kind of turns into a routine, and a new raid is not there yet. What to do? Let´s make some money from the raid. Has happened before, will happen again.
I assume now that most raids have a leader or an organizer at least.
So the raid leader has to make the difficult desicion which one of the guys has to go, or tries to go the diplomatic route by majority vote.
-If he is lucky, one of the 10 guys just wanted the raid to be done, has all he wants and vanshes from the group. Problem solved, no sweat.
-If not, everyone wants a piece of the action and the raid is screwed. If you have two players that are willing to sit out a raid but are set for the next, problem solved.
-If everyone wants to stay in and the raid leader is a good achiever but not a good socializer, things will turn ugly. Factions will be built, borders drawn. For example, Steve the socializing Achiever will want to make Maria stay because he likes her, but Killer Achiever Bob thinks she is the weak link and has to go.
-The leader is also human and will want the best for his guys, but he has difficult desicions to make now:
Will he give up on his best player that stemmed the tide multiple timers because a large faction does not really like him because he is rude in TS?
Who has to go? Friendly Maria or effective Bob?
All of this endangers the tight group maddoctor has mentioned, so do we agree that these battle groups could also impode because they are finally defeated by success? Of course this also applies to fractal groups, dungeons ansd stuff, but all of this stuff is pugable if the need arises, and raids obviously not. It takes time to jump into an organized raid group that lost a member I guess, so I see the danger of:
a) People becoming outcasts because they are deemed the weak link and the other raiders prefer the money over the member.
b) A spiral of: we are done, where is the next raid?
I am not even talking about elitism here, just about simple math. You have 10, and 1 needs to go if you want to make the money.
How about you stay where you are and make your own server stronger?
Not possible. I’m in SOR it is a ghost town since I last played. I just started playing GW2 again and if I can’t get into a T1 server for wvw I have no interest in continuing to play GW2.
Maybe going to Eotm will help you? It´s a 24/7 zerg with 0 resposibility. If I understand you right, you don´t want to take responsibility, which is ok. You have a problem when you are looking for GvG, but maybe Guild Halls will patch that problem for you too.
Not really versed in the NA server landscape, but I am pretty positive that everything up to T4 is not a barren wasteland, so why don´t you try your luck somewhere in that pecking order?
Anet has already demonstrated that they are both willing and able to give old maps new faces. I love Kessex Hills. When it started, it was a plain map with some Centaurs and Bandits. Now it has redesigned Krait, Nightmare Court and the landscape was altered. I love it when that happens, in my opinion, that is great game design and a map I would visit again!
It doesn´t even have to be big changes.
-Scrap the Jofast´s journey event(it´s just exploited anyway) and make Jofast waypoint permanent in the control of the pact with Risen attacking the waypoint then and when. Add an event to actually have something to do behind the waypoint as compensation. I am pretty sure that everybody has visited the road behind the waypoint, but only for farming reasons.
-Replace one of defense the waypoints events at the start with a permanent camp. As comensation, add a champ knight with a plan(Hostages, Experiment, etc etc).
-Let single risen escape the waning control of Zhaitan and do their own thing. Pirate ghost ship attack would be great.
-Let the pact build a camp where the gladiator champ is now. This event is up for hours sometimes, with people having zero interest in it.
-Replace the Risen between the point of entry and the fort with another faction that wants to loot Orr like the Inquestur are already attempting to. Pirates, Bandits, Krait, no matter.
-Slightly different vegetation at the start. Replace dark brown green with lighter djungle green or something.
tl: dr It´s easy to let people do the personal story but still add more control over Orr for the pact. Orr is great and should neither stay stagnant nor abandoned.
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mountain climbers get a unique reward, an experience and view that most never see, which cannot be duplicated in any way.
that said, i really dont think mountain climbing is a good example of game design, in fact its probably a pretty poorly designed game.
Not to mention the climber could either leave a marker behind or take something back with them from the whole experience.
…Oh wait, that wouldn’t be fair, we need to make mountain climbing easier since not everyone is gaining that same reward since the task is impossible for some very capable people.
Anyone who dismisses effort as part of a formula for rewards should stop playing games that have this as part of their design or accept the fact that effort has always been fundamental to video game rewards since inception.
On a basic level, I don´t disagree. A reward requires an effort, no questions asked. But how much effort is enough, and can it be substituted?
To adress the mountain climbing:
Reinhold Messner, a guy that climbed everything even remotely high and in the general shape of a mountain, complained in an interview how comparetively easy it is now for tourists with money to climb the Mount Everest and even the K7 if they have really, really good guides and how much they pollute these mountains. 30 years ago, climbing was one of the hardest things to do, and only experienced mountain climbers with Sherpas made it to the top of the K7. So casual, slow movement guys even invade hardcore mountain climbing. Why? Because they could pay others for their efforts and could still by all means say that they climbed the Mount Everest as the Sherpas did not really carry them, only literally. So it is entirely possible that a weasely manager guy named Steve has climbed the highest mountains on earth and lived to tell the tale how he did it, just the same as Reinhold Messmer did with sweat, blood and tears some decades before him. Fair? Probably not. Reality? Yes.
not to mention the many, many people that could use a helicopter to have the same reward as Messmer had with the view, although they did not earn it by climbing.
Tetris on the other hand raises it´s speed until you can´t keep up anymore, so it is just a glorified reflexes test. I would even say that the reward for completing hard maps is really simple in Tetris, but still people like to play it to slay time. Only fair if you are that type of person.
Really rich tourists get a 6 month crash course of astronautics, then their wallet buys them a place in a Spacecraft that is usually piloted by people that train the biggest part of their lifes as adults for and still most of them fail to even set foot into a spacecraft that leaves earth for half of an hour, turnig the adventure of space travel into a glorified ride with the bus. Fair? Certainly not. Lucrative for Nasa and other space organizations? Of course.
That is the real power of getting things without being good at them, regardless of the type of (gamer) person you are. For our thread here, this are examples how people have farmed money(a different content) to buy themselves a seat in a spacecraft or at the highest mountain(a raid) without being really good astronauts or mountain climbers(casuals) and still getting the rewards(legendary armor).
A noticeable exception for this is competetive sports. You can probably buy yourself into Olympia like Vanessa May did, but it was pretty clear from the start that she would go home with zip, nada, nothing. GW2 is not even a competitive Esport, even if Anet thinks otherwise.
I am not saying that you have to like this, but hard content is bound to become easier over time, either with practice or by other means. The casuals just have to wait for it until they can buy it or when it has lost it´s novelty and it´s price has to be lowered. Hardcores are either Sherpas after a time or have to share their glory with Steve.^^
(edited by Torolan.5816)
Good idea, but if I have to go back into Dry Top, I may cry.
This.
I sometimes still enter there because I am either/or stupid, a masochist or just can´t be dragged into PvP. It´s the worst map in the whole of GW2 for me, closely followed by Straits of Devastation which would be awesome if it were not for that tiresome vista down in the right corner.
This is indeed interesting. I find myself somewhere between achiever(I collect recipes I´ll never use again, but the difficulty of the content is not important for me) and socializer, so this is probably not a you´re either X or Y type of characterization, like most of these attempts of categorization. I know several Killers that are also Socializers and at least a little bit of an achiever. I even know explorers who have socializer habits, but I guess this is pretty rare.
I would now take a guess and say that you are an achiever and a socializer(you could be also a killer and an explorer, but I could not verify that because we talk only in this subform) too, but with a different weighting. So different that we often disagree on this or that, even when we like the same kind of stuff.
So the big question probably is:
Are there enough Achievers in GW2 that can surround themselves with other Achievers, Socializers and Killers to make raids sustainable in the long run, or not?
I guess it is pretty easy to recruit other achievers, reasonably easy to get socializers but very hard to get killers and explorers.