Guild Wars 2

azizul.8469:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

azizul.8469:

still not getting why electro blue sells for 1k gold. anyone can enlighten me ?

Probably because it cost them 150 gold to list it originally and if they pull it and relist then they lose an additional 15% of that price. In this case, it might be better for them to wait this out. There are always people who don’t have a char that’s 3 years old but do have the gold to pay for that dye.

i’m just wondering what’s so special about the color ? doesn’t look impressive or special at all to me….

That´s like finding an uniform or an iron cross first class from WWII. Both items are, in terms or usability, absoultely worthless and even dangerous to use in some areas. But both items also don´t get produced anymore and were once prestigious. That kindles the skritt in many people, causing them to pay much exorbitant prices for something that, built today, would only cost a few hundred dollars/euros at best.

Moonlit.6421:

Gonna be lazy here and just quote one of my old posts on this lol. Sadly the only race I ever see being playable is the Tengu (can expand on why if asked) and while it’s a fun idea neither Quaggan or Kodan are really viable. =/

Moonlit.6421:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Out of curiosity, why they you say the kodan are too much like norn? I’ve heard that several times, but save in height never seen it myself.

One of the main reasons is just like the above said, the two’s stories are just to similar. Also lore wise Norn and Kodan are thought to be related as distant cousins by many scholars, Norn supposedly being a regressed form from a tribe of Kodan lost long ago, which could explain why the Norn are similar in size and why they are so attuned with the spirits and able to transform into beasts, perhaps a lasting remnant of their ancestry.

Moonlit.6421:

Lol another one of these? At least this ones more about what you’d like to see rather than reasons “this or that” should be added lol. Okay lets sift through these by section;

Tengu:
Okay first off lets take a look at the sentient avian race known as the tengu, the most viable option. Note that I say the most viable not because this race is my favorite or even because I want to see them added but because its the most feasible of all the potential races. Unlike many of the other races often suggested Tengu are seen throughout GW1 and GW2, have their own sophisticated version of society, contain classes that include warriors and spellcasters, and are probably the easiest to apply the current armor choices to. They already have a platform from which to go off of in that they’ve sealed themselves off from most other cultures after a rocky history with humans and have recently begun to venture out more now that the elder dragons have risen, helping in the charge against Zhaitan. Despite this they are still rather xenophobic at the moment but their lore is set that they could emerge at any time.

Centaur:
[Insert joke about mounts here]. Lol that aside the centaur race will likely never come to pass for a number of reasons. For one overall they are a belligerent race with a fierce hatred for humans after years of war and enslavement and much of the race now fights fiercely in an effort to reclaim the land lost to the humans. As of recently with Jormag awakening and pushing other races out even further the centaurs have also come into contact with the norn and the results were as expected, they soon started fighting as well. I will say that there are peaceful tribes of Centaurs as well and that in many ways they are similar to the charr who also had a fierce hate for humans however I still don’t see it happening, especially with what they’d have to do to armor to make it work.

Largos:
Everyone seems to want these lol and I get it, the mysterious underwater assassin idea is a cool one, but I don’t see this happening either. For one Largos are by nature secretive and “don’t play well with others,” (such as the one in the Brisban Wildlands who was hunting a party of sylvari for sport). While I admit the underwater dragon does have an effect on them and some new features for aquatic fighting would be nice we’ve literally seen like a dozen of them throughout the entire game, that’s hardly enough to base an entire playable race off of. I know it may seem sad to hear but they just don’t fit with the lore and are perfect where they at now, a minor race that has its own cool flair. Besides, could you imagine the armor clipping with those wings? >u>

Quaggan:
Gonna give people the benefit of the doubt and hope this is a joke lol. Quaggans….yes their cute, they waddle, and they’d look amazing wearing a quaggan backpack….but that’s all they got going for them. For one their more tribal based than society, and you can hardly define the “warriors” they have as classes, heck their more like the “town watch” of modern day times, ready to rush at things with slightly pointy sticks and prolly get the living heck beat out of em. Some of them wont even fight back as their being kidnapped or killed. I know its a fun idea but lets keep it at that, an idea lol. ;3

Skritt:
Another joke I hope lol. I mean look at these guys, you gotta have like 4-5 of them in one place to do even the most basic of tasks lol. At best your guy would rush into battle and then the enemy would use its “counter” and throw a bunch of silver on the ground to distract you and kill you while your charrie was busy collecting “shinies.”

Kodan:
I will admit this is a fun idea and I can appreciate the sentiment but these guys are just far to close to norn to be considered truly viable for a new playable race. Not to mention the struggle to make armor fit on them and (not sure would like verification on this) do they even have spellcasters or is it an entirely physical based society?

Naga:
Gotta say, this is my favorite one that I’ve seen as of yet lol. Its out of the box, not something you see very much, and took the time to specify naga, not krait or forgotten. Honestly in GW1 I could have seen this happening, back before Shiro’s great wail turned all but a few dozen of them into jade and they were friendly with the humans. Now however they have been bred with a fierce hate for humans and have pursued conflict in an effort to get revenge over how they perceived themselves to be wronged. Quite a shame considering I’d love to see how armor would appear on them.

---

lol long post X3

1. The Norn – Kodan relationship:
Is that a pro or a con argument?
It is a con argument when you think that the Norn are already in the game and so we don´t need another one. Ok, legit.
It is a pro argument when you say that the textures are already there and “Kodan” could simply be a customizing option for Norn. Cheap for aNet and a long brewing wish fullfilled.
I see only win/win in the last situation. No designing on new quests would be necessary(although very much welcome), it´s simply a norn branch on the run, getting hospitalized by their brothers in Hoelbrack.

2. Tengu
Not too much to add here from a lorewise perspective.
Tengu would be so much appreciated, at least by people like me. If Anet is afraid to be bombarded with angry responds by Asian people who do not want their cultures mixed, make them fully japanese, chinese or whatever. I personally would much prefer Japanese as outfit because of Samurai clothes and weapons.
Does that fit into the current surroundings of Middle Europe/Scandinavia you ask?
Counterquestion, would you think that there is a place on earth where you find Foothills companion right next to a place like the Diessa plateau?
Or have the smurfs arm themselves to fight side by side with giant norse like people that can transform into bears, jaguars and ravens?
Probably not…

3. Centaur
Agree here as you even put in peace loving centaurs. Although as you say that with the mount joke, maybe that would to kill two birds with one stone. Centaurs instead of mounts? Only halfway joking here…^^

4. Quaggan
Please no. One race of smurfs is enough, and this one is even worse as it is probably not able to stand up alone once it has fallen on land. Please no again.
PS: I have absolutely no problems with little people in RL, don´t get me wrong. I just hate Asura with a passion because I find them unfitting into Tyria in general and they threw Tengu out for them.

5. Skritt
I think the concept of swarm intelligence is very intriguing, but it would need a character revolution for that. Maybe in a way that you loose one of the 6 to 10 abilitis if no skritt is close to you for any number less than 5.
Example:
Your party has 5 skritts, you have all your skills.
Your party has two Skritts, you have only ability 1-6.
Leaning wide out of the window here, I know.
Still, would buy and name it Ratburglar, Ratman, Ratboy or Cheeseburglar!^^

6. Largos
Complicated Underwater Combat is complicated.
For the secrecy argument: When I was a child, researchers thought of the Quastenflosser(a fish) to be extinct. Then people caught one, and researchers found out that the species is alive and well.
But I am pretty sure that the race would be a hit and sell like crazy for the reasons you already stated.

7. Naga
My second favorite, not much too add here. Love the toxic krait colour scheme.

8. Dredge
Reasons already stated.

So, don´t give up on demanding them, people! Money talks, and even as we were forced to suffer through the age of the Techno Smurfs, there is still hope for us.^^

If there is a market for Wedding dresses, I see good chances for aditional races too.
The often used excuse for not introducing new races to the game is that they don´t add significantly to the game. With the introduction of an expensive 5 races clothing item, that excuse went straight out of the window for me.
But wait, I can hear you say, there was already the chef outfit like that, why did the excuse fly up until here? Yes, you are right, but you could always cop out that it was a one of a kind, old item. No more.

Dredge would be very, very alluring for me beside a Tengu Samurai. I can sympathize with the guys up to a certain degree, but that Asura respect them dampens my will to play them, no good can come out of that.^^

HaxTester.9816:

Will there be a divorce outfit as well? Maybe after the in-game wedding update and kid adoption update, they’ll introduce alimony and child support update next.

I laughed. But don´t forget the grandparent outfit in case both parents want to go out adventuring, and the Nanny outfit(sexy or unsexy, depending if one of the married wants to cheat) in cose both parents are rich with lots of legendaries.^^

I advocate for everyone that does not buy a wedding dress to get a consolidation prize of, lets say 500 Gems, in case they have to sit through a GW2 wedding because they did run out of excuses not to appear.^^

phys.7689:

Torolan.5816:

phys.7689:

Im just pointing out its a treadmill, btw this has never really been about stats, just about cosmetic rewards. Its highly unlikely they will put unique stats, or power behind extremely exclusive content. The only thing i can think of is dungeon runes. But you can actually get those without doing any dungeons with the mystic forge, so ehh

I don´t think that is set into stone to be honest. If I was sure that something like lumi armor won´t happen again on a really hardcore level, I´d gladly salute the hardcore gamers for their endurance and determination and walk away whistling.^^

what? im confused luminiscent armor is a cosmetic item as far as i know? I thought you said you dont care about cosmetics

I don´t care about the lumi armor itself, it is that ls2 hides jewelry and the bioluminescence reward is an ascended chest I would have liked to have. It´s nothing that keeps me awake at night, but was annoying enough for me to still spare a thought.

So after reading this, I see a lot of people that tried to take a “financial” advantage on people that were ready to pay a much to high price for it.

I personally, if I had the money to do so, would hire an agency in every country to send a burly man to your house, ring your doorbell and slap you in the face twice to bring you back to your senses. One party for being an opportunist and then sore for being a victim of unforseeable stuff, the other party for being careless with their money and supporting the behaviour of the first party. ^^

phys.7689:

Im just pointing out its a treadmill, btw this has never really been about stats, just about cosmetic rewards. Its highly unlikely they will put unique stats, or power behind extremely exclusive content. The only thing i can think of is dungeon runes. But you can actually get those without doing any dungeons with the mystic forge, so ehh

I don´t think that is set into stone to be honest. If I was sure that something like lumi armor won´t happen again on a really hardcore level, I´d gladly salute the hardcore gamers for their endurance and determination and walk away whistling.^^

phys.7689:

ReiCH.6273:

Torolan.5816:

maddoctor.2738:

A question to everyone that is watching this thread:
What’s your opinion on time-exclusive rewards?

For example, challenging group content might reward SKINA, for a limited time, until players beat it, until players reach a certain speed, or simply after a set amount of time (or any other system really), that exclusive stops being exclusive and is added to other types of content. Then, another piece of exclusive reward is added to new content and the cycle continues.

Do you find that satisfying as a hardcore player? Do you find that satisfying as a casual player?

I think that is probably the best solution.

One vote from me too on that one. It’s a great compromise as long as the time frames are right, not too short or too long so both groups feel happy about it.

Most casuals are doing things in their own pace anyways so time for them isn’t an issue. They can wait or prepare for it. And most hardcore players would probably enjoy the challenge of having a deadline to acquire the skin before it loses some of its value (and maybe a cool title/achievement to help ’em along).

haha
i mean I dunno if i care too much, but you guys are like animal farm. Slowly recreating the very things everyone said they didnt like.
you are basically proposing a cosmetic gear treadmill.

If someone is bent on spending his gaming time in a single dungeon for days or weeks, who am I to forbid him? I won´t participate in that endeavour as it is not my taste, but best of luck to him.
If I can get the item and it´s useful, for example if it has a stat that you don´t find elsewhere in a given item, I will be glad when I can aquire it more easily after some time.
If it is only a skin and not really a good looking one, you barked against the wrong tree from the start with me with your animal farm theory. If I did not care when my main character was running around in fresh out of the factory steel color for months, why should I care for a random skin behind a wall of content.

maddoctor.2738:

A question to everyone that is watching this thread:
What’s your opinion on time-exclusive rewards?

For example, challenging group content might reward SKINA, for a limited time, until players beat it, until players reach a certain speed, or simply after a set amount of time (or any other system really), that exclusive stops being exclusive and is added to other types of content. Then, another piece of exclusive reward is added to new content and the cycle continues.

Do you find that satisfying as a hardcore player? Do you find that satisfying as a casual player?

I think that is probably the best solution.

Lol.

I am not really supporting the message of this thread, but I surely like your presentation.

10/10, good sir. Would read again.

Mitch.4781:

Staff theif??? Really? Seems a missed opportunity. Thief has no MAXIMUM range and only 2 classes use rifle. Why anyone would bother creatign the predator is beyond me seeing as Engies use their kits mostly and rifle warriors are hated more than lb Rangers.

Some very odd design choices.

Fixed that for you.^^

From a RP point of view, it indeed seems a little bit odd to give a stealthy type of class a big, unwieldy staff.

atheria.2837:

Totally, absolutely, unequivocally, no.

Pets should have the same high health they have in PvE.

Why?

Ok, let’s go with your premise PvP, that means everyone in WvW will be stripped of trinkets, skills, buffs and anything that can help in a large group.

Nope, doesn’t work.

Pet’s need to:

Grow up

Become stronger with training

Never have less health than the day we find them.

AND not have Anet lower it in PvE, which is what I know they would do if they looked at it, so our pets would be totally useless in PvE as well as WvW and PvP.

No.

Pets need to be fixed – f2 and their health pools

Gonna catch them all!^^

Sorr,y could not resist. I generally agree with you that is stupid to continually have a young X pet if you don´t name it.

So why is it free to watch at then today from most of NY as a symbol of hope and greatness? Would this not basically mean that hardcore people aim to be the statue of liberty, with people watching their trinkets, flaring up the show off and elitism debatte again?

Would it not be much more hardcore to hide it behind a wall and let people do a hard army drill course to reach it and see the symbol of freedom, with drill seargants(hardcore enthusiasts) yelling at people falling behind(casuals), or at the old(people with disabilities or just older people), tired(those coming home from work for a little relaxation) and the homeless(people without guild support)?
Nobody would give a rat´s bottom about the statue of liberty if it was hidden behind a hard to beat content wall, all you have to do is pay a little fee for transport to the isle.

Not taking away from the heroism of the people you mentioned, but it is also common sense to overbear the attacker if you could be next on his shooting list. Of course not everybody would have done this, and their grantings of the highest order of courage from the hands of the French President is well deserved. Also one of the guys was a soldier and so probably more used to weapons, the other guys had simply admirable boatloads of courage.

So according to that reasoning, it was hard to build(hard mode) and is bound to become free as it had been build for everyone(easy mode). That would mean that the hardcore mode is only a mean to achieve the easy mode for everyone. The statue of liberty was not hard to build because it was that people wanted it to be hard to build, it was hard to build because the circumstances were grim. There are no grim circumstances in GW2, making the really hardcore mode unnecessary.

I don´t want to trample on your patriotism, I really don´t. But maybe this sounds also familiar to you then:

Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:

I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

That´s written on the statue of liberty, which itself was a free gift from France.

Seera.5916:

To the topic of the thread, while I may not be skilled enough to do challenging content by myself, I’m not opposed to content being difficult and offering unique rewards for completion. Provided the unique rewards are just cosmetic.

If it is a skin look I really like, then it will serve as either a means for me to get better at the game, as I would have to do that to get the item on my own, or to group up with others to complete the mission.

It´s not even said that you would be unable to complete harder stuff. Challenging is completely different from hardcore.
Extreme 1:
Someone who, after playing in SW for a week+ , still needs comanders in defense events, needs help. Not only in GW2, but probably also in life.
Extreme 2:
Someone who does Arah paths solo without using exploits or bad mechanic, also needs help. And probably a life.

I am perfectly fine with random mobs of the calibre of SW mobs, but I surely don´t need a lupi lurking at every corner. So if that is the content Anet is looking for, harder random mobs with rewarding but not 1+ hours of gameplay consuming events, I am all for it.

I learned a really valuable lesson from Al Bundy from married with children long ago:
“Nothing is so stupid that some idiot will not be able to sell an item to an even bigger idiot. Of course, that only applies if you do not meet the queen of the idiots.”
Of course he meant that to highlight that he indeed had married the queen of idiots with Peggy, but the point is basically an universal one.

If someone is really stupid enough to invest 1000g for a dye, it will happen, despite how much it is a slap in the face of common sense.^^

Azure.8670:

I want to kill them off asap. They are the worst. I was dying to play as one, but after defeating zhaitan without their help you would think they would do something. Scarlett mangles LA which is next to their home and they do nothing. They don’t even help rebuild, even the Kodan did that. I call for complete genocide

Good sir,

Maybe they are too busy watching and guarding the troops of humankind for the Kessex map where Seraph Forces did not even see the construction of a tower, or noted the sudden appearance of strange looking krait ( a tower does not build itself from scratch, even if invisible. Materials have to be brought the old school way.) who banded together with Nightmare court sylvari?
Or guarding the rift in the same map where destroyers are swarming out repeatedly?

If my tengu samurai was already available, I´d ask you to defend your honor on the battlefield. But so, you escape the wrath of the tengu one last time as it seems^^

Jaymee.1560:

I’m not impressed.

Anniversary sale so far are selling items I already own, so…?

I understand the new players are more than likely loving this, but I am pretty sure veteran Players, like myself, are getting more and more frustrated.

Do I have to wait until day 21 of the 21 Day Sale to maybe get something I don’t already own?

Sounds a little like the problem of how to give a good gift to the man that already has everything, or not?^^

Draknar.5748:

Think his point is that everything you do in GW2 is for rewards. If there were no rewards, you wouldn’t do the content you currently “enjoy” either.

There have been no real good reasons why exclusive skins should not be added to challenging content, in my opinion.

They all fall into these categories:

“Because they just shouldn’t!”

“Because then people will feel superior!” (also read: “Because I will feel inferior!”)

“It’s not fair because I want it! But I don’t want to do the requirements so it has to be available to everyone so that I can have it too! If I see someone with a skin I don’t have I would die, I would literally just DIE sobs "

“They just want to be special snowflakes! Screw them!”

Don’t think I’ve missed any.

How about a marketing reason you maybe missed?
All games that copied the hard raid/good content approach did not do too well, at least not compared to the market giant. Ok, no big deal, but why partially give one of the few stand alone criteria, casual gameplay at any time for anyone with any class, away for a probably small number of recipients?
Or the reason of it´s PvE, who needs exclusive rewards for pros?
According to Anet devs, every player is a PvE player. According to forum visitors, some of them are very good in PvE and want better reward. Others don´t. Why make life harder for the majority of your gamers, assuming that the silent majority not on the forums, is satisfied with their fix of game play?
Or the reason of not trying to achieve the unachievable?
If gaming history teaches you something, then it is that hardcore players are never satisfied. Never. They burn through the content and want more, more, more, preferably yesterday.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

See now we quickly move into the false comparison. We now are comparing an average zerker pug to a fully organized solders group with TS. A full speedrun zerker organized group with TS can clear SE 1 in 3.5 minutes. You also use soldiers gear (moderately high dps set) instead of clerics geared players like I mentioned.

I’m talking average zerker group vs average “everyone welcome” group. Typically in the non-zerker everyone welcome group (which I run once or twice a week to help people learn) I find it takes 20-45 minutes for a typical run. People get lost, people fall into unrezzable spots, we wipe on a boss, we can’t stand on switches, etc. The time varies significantly with each group.

In the typical “P1 80’s, exp, zerk, fast” groups that I join, a typical run takes 6-12 minutes. I suspect all the runs over 10 minutes are when we have a person who thinks they can wear clerics gear in a zerker run and no one will notice it is taking longer (we do, but there is nothing we can do about it unfortunately).

I find if I impose AP restrictions of 10k+ then the run times drop by an additional 1-2 minutes on average.

I have made other experiences. While some Zerker group runs went smooth and in no time at all as you say, i came into random zerker groups that were a bloody mess from start to finish. And no, it wasn´t because my Soldier Guard did not contribute to the damage, 2 out of 4 people are mostly already downstead after the WoR goes down and the three Golems come in swinging. What begins then is a really nervewracking war of attrition where one by one, single golems go down in miserable 6+ tries.

And that is a dungeon the common pug mnages most easily, I have also been in runs for AC 3 with bloody and lengthy battles already erupting with the giant spider.

So my conclusion is: It´s not mainly gear that makes runs easy or hard or quick and drawn out, it´s people that make runs easy or hard or quick and drawn out^^

…Sneaks in the thread…

“Wait, smurfette has more than one dress? Color me surprised, who would have thought.”

…Sneaks out of the thread…

^^

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I’m sorry, but what is fun exactly about taking 45 minutes to clear an 8 minute dungeon?

You claim that doing things super fast isn’t fun, yet what makes doing them 3-4x slower then they need to be fun?

That just sounds like a waste of time to me, not more fun.

Additionally, we are doing the same dungeons for 3 years. The game hasn’t added any repeatable content for 3 years. Why would we want to spend any more time then we have to there? We do it because it is the best way to get gold, the best way to get dungeon gear and the only way to get the dungeoneer title.

We need that gold so we don’t have to worry about the problems of poor people. Want to try a new build? want to get a new look? Want to try a different class. Well since I didn’t waste all my time doing 50 minute dungeon runs with clerics people I have enough money to get any new look I want. I have enough money to fully gear up a new class to see how they play.

The real question is why do you like taking 30+ minutes to do something that only takes 6-8 minutes?

Lol, 6 compared to 45 minutes? What kind of soldier/cleric gamers do you know? Sorrows Embrace 1 for example will be nowhere near 30 minutes in a group full of soldier equipped toons piloted by children if an experienced dungeon runner is with them in TS.

maddoctor.2738:

Torolan.5816:

I am happy with content that is not too easy, but I want to see a progress. Someone used a comparision here that a guy that tries to beat lupi 5! hours and is unable to beat it, goes then to bed thinking how to beat it, is funny and rewarding. For me personally, that sounds like pure stress and grinding, repetive work at a broken production line because nothing countable came out the whole day.

In the Lupi example, your “progress” might be his hit point total. First attempt, got downed on the first hit, second attempt brought him down to 75% hit points, third attempt at 50% and so on. There is progress to be had when you repeat (and fail) at content. I wouldn’t say I’d go to bed and feel excited about it… I’d rather search for help and find someone that can help me pass that, like I did nearly 3 years ago when I first reached Simin in Arah P4, than try for 5 hours on my own.

There is a reason a lot of “hard” bosses in MMORPGs have phases, so you learn their individual phase mechanics and progress one by one. When you manage to defeat phase 1 you start practising phase 2, until you reach the final stage and beat the boss.

In any case you ARE making some progress. Each 1% of hp you bring the boss down, or each new phase you unlock is progress.

I don´t agree with the HP total concept, it is of absolutely no consequence for me if a mob has 60% or 65% left when I wipe. Not that I think that it is not the case for some people, but I personally don´t memorize every attempt I make for something in detail, just the general idea and strategy I used.Then I try it maybe for 5 to 10 times, hit a brickwall with my tactic before being frustrated. If in a really competitive mood, I may try again at the same day after a break, but not very likely.
That motivation sinks even further if there is a way to go to the mob, from a waypoint or something like that, it´s a little bit insult added to injury.
The phase concept is much better, there you indeed have a visible progress, but it does not have to be a days filling quest to just reach phase 2.

Give me a game world where it really matters what your toon does faction wise, and I´ll follow you straight to the gates of hell to obtain the exquisite item if your cause is noble, funny or epic.
But I don´t really see the point to get the championship (to stay in that line of thought) in a semi-mobile and kind of development-senile Game world like Tyria where WvW is reset every week, Orr never changes despite 2 ingame years passing and a giant centaur army will never brand against the walls of Lions Arch. I kind of had a feeling like that with ls1 sometimes, and if there would have been a possibilty of Scarlet winning andplayers could have avoided it, you would have needed a crowbar to get me away from the screen.
In Tyria, a copy of the world championship is fully sufficient. Sadly.

maddoctor.2738:

Torolan.5816:

And no ,sweat and rage are not a currency I would accept, also no interest in doing it to become better at something that should be fun, not work. As we´re not at work in GW2, I think players can indeed demand to get a copy of the world championship trophy even if they are unable to just win it.

So when someone has to try something multiple times (and fail a lot) until they get it right is like work?
When you play a game and hit a wall that cannot pass, you try to be better so you pass it or you put it aside and never go back? I’m of the first type and I’m sure many players are too. The feeling of succeeding in what you couldn’t do before is part of it.
That’s not “work”, that’s enjoyment, that’s how all sports work, heck that’s how forms of entertainment work, when you are actively practising them. Paint, sculpt, write music, write stories, sing? You are saying when someone is trying to become better at something, it’s “work”?

I read this so many times by so many people, that “hard content” is like “work”. We obviously have a very different definition of work.

Maybe that depends on where or what you work?
Some people are undoubtfullys happy when they do the same thing every day at work. I also thought for a while that these people just simply have resigned, but now, I think there are people that have even some meditative qualities found in this.
Others need octaine and action at work. I find that principle hard to grasp and lacking, but witnessed it too often to say that it is not there.

I am happy with content that is not too easy, but I want to see a progress. Someone used a comparision here that a guy that tries to beat lupi 5! hours and is unable to beat it, goes then to bed thinking how to beat it, is funny and rewarding. For me personally, that sounds like pure stress and grinding, repetive work at a broken production line because nothing countable came out the whole day.

I am pretty sure that anyone who comes to any world championship is there to win it if they are not the novelty of the year act like Vanessa May was at some point. If I knew from the start that i don´t even have the chance to be world champion, i surely would not take part in the event if I did not get offered something in return. And no ,sweat and rage are not a currency I would accept, also no interest in doing it to become better at something that should be fun, not work.
As we´re not at work in GW2, I think players can indeed demand to get a copy of the world championship trophy even if they are unable to just win it.

If you really want a championship item, maybe just make it a championship instead of a regular content? Anet loves Championships in PvP, why not in PvE?

Terrrible noob meta zerkers are terrible.

I am pretty happy when a berserker clad person with skill enters any party, is humble enough to at least shut up and only inwardly lament the fact that he lfged for some time and is now still stuck with this group of Soldier/Cleric Noobs, and contributes with DPS and the ability to not go down immediately if targetet by the lvl 40+ fractal Ettin, and happily leaves after a smooth run.

A new player should be clad in Soldier, Cleric or at least Valkyrie (if he is an elementalist) until he has learned how things are done in dungeons or fracs. Then he can still decide if he wants to stay with the more defensive gear or gets all out Berserkers.

How often, while in higher fractals, had I the wish of not raising the 22K AP Berserk guy with the big mouth and instead stomp him with my soldier armor covered boot to put him out of his misery?^^

Devata.6589:

Ohoni.6057:

No, this content fails in all possible ways.

1. It fails to maintain skilled players. They will probably skip the easier modes entirely and complete the hard mode relatively quickly, and then they’re out of the loop. You have failed to maintain their interest for any reasonable amount of time.

2. It fails the highly unskilled. They will never be able to complete the hard mode, meaning the prize is permanently out of reach, which will make them frustrated and enjoy the game less. After several failed attempts, they will give up entirely and if you’re very lucky, move to other things rather than quitting the game entirely. The more often you present them with this experience, the more likely the latter is to be.

3. It also fails the moderately skilled, because they won’t be able to beat hard mode on the first try, but as that’s the mode they want to be doing, they will keep trying, and failing, and face the same frustrations as the unskilled group. Nobody will be satisfied with the sub-hard modes unless they provide meaningful progress towards the harder mode’s rewards (and no, “training” doesn’t count). Now some of those moderately skilled players, even though they could potentially pass hard mode eventually, will just decide it’s not worth the hassle and mode on, just like group 2. Some will stick with it, and perhaps even enjoy pushing that boulder up the hill every day, only to see it roll down over them, but ultimately this is a degenerative gaming experience and should not be encouraged.

1. Then the content is not challeging enough.

2. I do not see that as a fail.. They can try to get better at it, and as long as they don’t the price indeed it out of reach for them. (you know, like with most games.. winning the world champions, means you need to become better or else you will never win that). I think more people will move (have moved) away getting bored by the grind as we have now.

3 They will need to do it a few times to get better indeed. But in your example where people grind a currency they also need to do things multiple times so why is it suddenly a problem. Not to mention that everybody is better in some things and worse in others. So your moderately skilled will be able to do multiple things in one or just a few tries. But there will indeed also be content that will then take them longer.

Remember the wizards hat example, where you said that would be unbalanced.. but if it was balanced it would be good (that’s basically what you seem to suggest there). well this is a way to balance it. The ‘grind’ is now completely based on the difficulty of the content.
“(and no, “training” doesn’t count)." Why not, because then your reasoning would fall apart? I would thing training, getting a bit further, or closer or faster for sure counts.

Anyway, when you seem to dismiss everything and the reasons for it then I am really interesting in your solution? Because I have a feeling, everything you point out here why something we suggest would not work… also exists in your solution.. in fact in exist in all solutions with the exception of one.. giving everything out for free. But that would really result in a dull game.

Ohoni.6057:

Yeah, beating the dungeon wasn’t that hard, but it took you 25 minutes. That other group was able to do it in only 15, can you beat that? Maybe, if you keep trying. In the meantime, you’re still getting the rewards for beating the dungeon each time you try.

But the when your goals are rewards (as is the case for many people) you would look what content rewards the currency you need best and start grinding that. That is the reality. What I find interesting is that in my example you say it’s bad for people to do the content multiple times, while here you suggest they do it just for the fun.

Nonetheless, reality has shown us what happed. There is nothing stopping you from increasing your time, but what happens is that people simply will do something else. The leaderboards are a good solution for this and might create some incentive, but when chasing rewards this is still not an interesting option.

Ohoni.6057:

But anyways, yeah, the occasional “try it once, beat it, and get a prize” is a fun addition, it’s the desert after dinner, but it can’t be the primary form of content in an MMO, even a game as well funded as WoW cannot keep up that pace.

No, so first I added RNG to fix thig, but then you said that would still be a grind (while completely different). So then I removed the RNG and added the challenge. But then that was not good because it would be too hard for people not willing to improve their skills.

1. Skill is not a term like on or off. What is skilled for you, may be too hard or too easy for me.
2. Bad example. You, me or anybody on this board is unable to beat Usain Bolt and become world running champion, regardless of the time we train, how young or old we are or how hard we try. So if you want to be a world champion, you have to aim for another endeavor or resign yourself to the fact that, while you can take part in the world championship if you really try, requiring of course that you are a trained world class athlete from the beginning, you will never win it. And i am pretty sure that Usain Bolt has not to try to run against for example a 65 year old granddad that jogs in the morning. And the world athletics association surely is not in the weird position of being forced to bundle people like Usain Bolt and the jogging granddad in one bracket at the world championship like Anet is forced to do.
Besides, every athlete at that world championship goes out of them with a consolidation prize, either in sponsoring money from their respective countries or with an advertisment deal if they are lucky and good enough. Even the worst soccer team of a given first class soccer league, be it English, German, Italian or Spanish, gets a boatload of money for showing up alone to play. So ss long as there is no consolidation prize for people that are at least trying to beat the hard content, any outcry for hard to reach prizes is uncalled for in my eyes.
3. Glass wall effect too. At some point, you hit a barrier you can´t breach, despite your best effort.

Ok, how about Magigimix then? A classical, sickle carrying central Europe Druid, relying heavily on potions, herbs and scrolls.

I want bird people and give a rat´s bottom about the rest. If I was tortured with flappy eared smurfs in the last years, I expect their fans to just smile and wink if I go crazy about my Tengu Samurai.

Could live with Skritt, Lagos and Kodan too. PLS no Quaggan!^^

Radagast and Gandalf are as much druids as they are wizards by profession, and both only show rudimentary, even potion imbued healing powers most of the time.
Gandalf for example is unable to cure the poisoned Bilbo, only Elrond as a fully dedicated healer is able to do so.

Another thing came to mind today:
Some people surely remember the elite collecting sign that you could equip in GW1 . I had a blast hunting for mobs that had skills I did not have, and it was mostly open world, at least I remember hunting a mob in the far shiverpeaks for a skill.

Hard content and a grind? Serious question.

Someone that can´t run a fractal of levels 11-19 with a ranger or necro with 10 AR is either new to fractals, new to the game, or an elitist of the rudest kind.

Can´t speak of the Necro, but Ranger is very useful in several fractals:
*Can carry the hammer because of the elite skill
*Very good in the harpy fractal
*Useful with Lava Shaman(Seek and Rescue, Entangle)

4 Warriors and a Guard for example are not a group that consists out of good players, it´s a war or attrition they play with Elite Banners mostly.^^

Just ignore the people that can run their way only, and have fun with the necro

It is misleading advertisment if Anet had advertised HoT with a sentence akin to:
“Buy HoT to get the new PvP and WvW map.”
I don´t know if they did, but that would be a classical misleading advertisment and illegal or at least disputable in many countries.

But what about the people that want the item and not the memory associated with getting it? isn´t it a grind for them to make the hard content, despite not wanting to do it, and would have prefered to collect 40 tokens?

We´re players with different measures of things that are fun, not employees that have to make a certain amount of money or get cut. But probably even the most lazy of casuals would want the same items the hardcores have gotten after a long battle and are willing to grind for them with her mouse in one hand and a cup of coffee in the other.

Would it do the trick if the farmed item is blue and the hardcore one red maybe?

Seriously curious here.

Maybe you´re doing it wrong?

As I have learned from multiple threads here, the modern hipster of today does not farm. He buys, and is leaving that pesky crafting stuff to peasants, because a job at a big fast food shop gets you all the money you need to buy a legendary at a much better effort/result equation.

And I am only partly jocking here. Sadly.

Even some of the hardcore games are getting Care Bear Games lately. Just ask the CFC or Russian Federation how much fun defending is with the new SOV mechanic in Eve.^^

Test.8734:

One thing you can easily see from hints everywhere – forum titles for ArenaNet employees, Glass Door reviews, talks from ArenaNet people – is that they have a very poor management system. Wasn’t it said that it was only a small team working on the Living World? A few people assumed that meant the studio had been working on a “secret project” for years now, but the lull in content while we wait for HoT has shown the truth – ArenaNet has been mostly spinning on their wheels, mostly due to bad management. Unless they do a massive shake up, it seems very unlikely that they will be able to save GW2.

I really liked that conspiracy theory, “they are totally working on something big, therefore ls2 is garbage” ! Only a few people probably thought that Anet was simply just cheap and tried to keep costs low for it while reaping in massive profit.^^

PorceleinEve.2973:

Torolan.5816:

I like hard content too, but not if it sends you home completely emptyhanded like ls2 does. Not a big fan of the Aetherpath either, so much work and commitment for so little reward. If it has to be hard, at least don´t fill it with Garbage only at the end, and some mid level champs don´t hurt either.^^

No you don’t like challenging content. You like loot and rewards. You see challenging content as a means to those. You don’t like the content, just the rewards.

Yeah, that may be indeed true too, but it´s not that easy. I see no problem with challenging content as long as you don´t leave empty handed, that can be something as simple as an AP for a mid level champion opponent that keeps me coming back.

People keep on telling me how they have easily made and still enjoyed the challenge ls2 for example. But I found it to be challenging, boring, grindy and repetive in the worst kind of way.
The same goes with most JPs, I only had the Wallbreaker JP for years. Or making Arah solo, that is not even in question for me, even if I had the skills or the tenacity to do it.
If this is the new hard content, I will gladly pass it.

If the new hard content is more like Marionette in an open world content, please bring it online quickly. I don´t want to practice with my friends how to do this or that, we´re not a sports team, but a casual group of people hanging out together in a game.

NotOverlyCheesy.9427:

Let us take an example of a warrior that tries to solo arah for the first time. Our warrior can’t get past lupi after bashing it for five hours and goes to sleep thinking only about how he wants to murder that dog. Would you at this point say that was wasted effort?

The next day our warrior comes back thinking about the things he made wrong yesterday and aces than son of a kitten.

Lesson of the story, there is this thing called learning curve, trial and error. When you realize you’re able to do something you weren’t able to do before the reward is much MUCH higher from that content than from a content that holds your hand through every singe step.

That is not a very good example for am MMO, no? A guy doing a group content on his own, tolerated but certainly not encouraged by Anet, with the secondary goal to solo it to sell it in the worst case.

And yes, it was a wasted effort, although not completely wasted of course, there surely is some fun in this. But he got nothing monetarily from it and surely, a quantity of the invested time was teleporting, cursing and wondering why the last attempt of 15 minutes did fail so closely because his clicking finger started to became deaf or something like that.

I like hard content too, but not if it sends you home completely emptyhanded like ls2 does. Not a big fan of the Aetherpath either, so much work and commitment for so little reward. If it has to be hard, at least don´t fill it with Garbage only at the end, and some mid level champs don´t hurt either.^^

The necro is as good as any other class for absolutely everything in PvE. Fine for solo roaming and zerging in wvw. Don´t know about PvP.

Sicarius.4639:

Zaklex.6308:

Also, for the person saying we need to stop this pre-ordering/pre-purchasing because it’s ruining the industry, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it, I however will continue to pre-order/pre-purchase products that interest me based on past performance.

However you like to justify your purchase is your own choosing. We’ve seen the pre-order culture evolve, we can see where it’s been and where it leads. We complain about more and more things being held behind paywalls and pieces cut out and resold to us, we also complain about subpar products. People that buy into this have no one to blame but themselves and no right to complain about said product. You’re selling your power as a consumer and the attitude of “it’s ok when [they] do it” will only hasten this.

This battle was already lost when people agreed to trade their privacy for things they would have got anyway. Like regular discounts instead of pay back cards, or agreed to be herded and made glasy by plattforms like Steam. If data protection agencies tell or even show them how much they are spied on, they either grin stupidly because they still don´t realize what this means (I cry for you, common sense! ), or they just don´t care and go on because it suits the laty attitute this enables them to keep.

So this next step, let people pre pay things to maximize profit by letting people pay for something the company had to do by all means and bank on lazy and forgiving customers who don´t give things back even if they suck or are tiny, is only logical.

What is going to be next? People being asked if they want to be the facility manager of Anets housings because that is awesome and heightens the gaming experience. Absurd? I am pretty sure this would work…

Or you could buy two ascended rings, giving you 10 AR after you have made enough runs for 150 units of fractal currency, giving you more than enough AR to make lvl 19 fracs. If you start from the bottom, you won´t be of much help at all in your first runs if your friends are experienced fractal runners doing 30 fracs anyway.
There is also the grindy way of making ls2 for ascended gear and not only rings. It´s repetitive and boring, but it´s not time gated.

Wasn´t that fireworks for the defeat of Zhaitan?

Kaamau.5341:

For example; back when I played WoW during Wotlk, my guild was working on the heroic mode Lich King fight. We much have wiped 50, maybe a hundred times, I dreaded showing up to raids, but I wanted the gear that you could get from that fight, great stats, looked great, and there was no way I was going to not get it. When we finally killed him, my guild cheered and shouted, we would have hugged each other if we were in the same room. It was one of the greatest moments in all my years of gaming. That is what hard mode content bring for those who will put in the effort to complete it, and I wouldn’t have done it if I could have got the loot any other way.

So from a neutral, non emotional perspective, you spend weeks at a given project, dreaded to even enter it and felt good and relieved when it was over, to get an item that was of non-permanent value because of improving equipment in Wow.

Sounds exactly like drawing a bilancing account at the end of the year or a big project in some random company for me. When it is over, it starts anew and has mainly buffering, archiving and cosmetic value.

If that is your prefered form of entertainment is up to anyone individually, but surely it is not my type of entertainment.^^

Khalisto.5780:

pve is not meant to be played as a fun thing, it’s a gold farm tool, everybody is bored from day 1

Incorrect statement is incorrect.

I had a blast to explore the world when I leveled my first character 3 years ago. I even had fun when I leveled my 7th character some months ago, the old school way.
Liked the temple events.
Had a lot of fun in Southsun.
Really liked Marionette and most of ls1.
Had fun with Triple headed Worm and Tequatl when they were new.
Had fun when SW was new.

Of course the old bosses that did not get a revised mechanic that forced players to think when they first encountered them are boring now.

To be fair, in some other mmos you are thankful for reasonable people like SkiTz instead of the moron parade that can be witnessed there.

And speaking of content that gets harder, not softer:
Everyone who was around when Marionette was an issue will quickly see the ties this event has to Vinewrath. 5 lanes of hard monsters (rather full lanes wiped sometimes) an a high number of objectives to achieve. There were hardcore gamers wading through salt seas for weeks then, people camped at the spots they thought would be most vulnerable and blocked by terrible or new players in an attempt to beat the event, accusations, frustration etc etc. Simply a glorious event even when it failed. Thank you, Mr. Designer, I still use salt from that event in the kitchen from then to salute you every day.

Then what happened?
The mechanic resurfaced with Vinewraith, but only had three lanes and the champions and lanes are reasonably easy. So even when it is a big step up from the vanilla opponents of other maps, it is still a downgrade from a harder content, and VW is not even on the level of Tequatl, sitting somewhere between the Karka Queen and Tequatl. Does not exactly speak for the idea that more really hardcore stuff is what Anet is looking for.

SkiTz.4590:

I can already taste the frustration from some of the ppl here that already assume they won’t be able get the unique rewards from the new challenging content. It’s delicious.
Some of you people are just going to be extremely salty when it gets revealed next saturday that unique rewards/progression will be tied into the challenging content.

Even if you are right with this one, I guess the tear tank of the other side is much fuller than yours at this point.^^