Guild Wars 2

Deniara Devious.3948:

I like the name Classic WvWvW. It perfectly summarizes what many players want. Almost every WvWvW player I know wants the original maps back. Some stopped playing because of drastic changes, which alienated the core gamers. Some only play in Eternal Battlegrounds, since that is the only remaining map, which offers gaming experience which is at least similar to the original experience.

For comparison: Counter-Strike (CS) was first released in 1999 as Half Life 2 mod. In over 15 years CS remained surprisingly faithful to the original and still gathers very wide gaming audience. I don’t even want to draw comparisons how many views CS:GO youtube videos and Twitch streams get compared to GW2 videos. Despite fierce competition in FPS genre, CS continues to be popular.

In over 15 years the gamers haven’t grown tired of the CS maps. Most of the new CS maps are not full of gimmicks, but follow the proven keep it simple stupid (KISS) formula of the original maps. I know there are several CS games: 1.6, source, Global Offensive, but nevertheless they play more or less the same. If Valve would have done Arenanet and replaced the beloved CS maps with a massive map, which is full of pve events (shrines, oasis), overbuffed NPCs and takes long time to find any enemies, I am sure CS would have lost major share of players and the rage would have been massive.

Arenanet has simply went too far with the new mechanics and maps they have released since launch in Autumn 2012. Bazaar of the Four Winds in July 2013. That was the 1st pve map with increased verticality and gimmick mechanics. Traversing was made into the primary challenge instead of defeating smarter and thougher enemies. Now HoT pve maps have both and I like the latter, but not the former. Since the Bazaaer map we have had lots of other maps with similar design: Dry Top (pve), Skyhammer (spvp), Edge of the Mists (“WvWvW”) and Heart of Thorns (pve) and the new Desert Borderlands (“WvWvW”).
Skyhammer, EotM and Desert BL have all met with lots of criticism from player. There was lots of good feedback from the Desert BL beta, but Arenanet developers chose to ignore those very valid concerns. Now there is no denying, the WvWvW player base has diminished.

I am playing Desolation, EU rank 1 server. You might think we are stacked to the brink. Last time when I was raiding prime time with my guild we had the outnumbered “buff” on us. Enemy server had much bigger blob (we had 13, enemy had around 40). We still managed to get some objectives. We changed to another borderland, once again outnumbered “buff”. Usually there is NO queue to any map. The EBG queue is often bugged. E.g. yesterday it showed “queue”, but when I clicked it, I got instantly in and we had (you can guess…) outnumbered “buff” in EBG. This is NOT a healthy situation. EU rank 1 should much more players. I can just barely imagine how empty the other EU servers are outside their busy hours.

Now almost every single new map seems to follow this formula:
- lots of verticality, very much 3D
- difficult to learn, difficult to traverse ( = horrible for newbies! recipe for shrinking player base!)
- emphasis on mini games (as if the game designers don’t think the main game is enough e.g. adventures on the HoT pve maps).

I am totally fine of some pve maps having these features, but Arenanet please do NOT force all gamers into just “one design”, which is very different from the original. One of the best game producers of Finland once told me a very good advice, which I tell to my game design students: “Often gamers want more of the same”. In other words, they don’t want drastically different content, but more and more similar content. This is true for all entertainment from films to music, games to books. That is why sequels are so profitable business. If you can make the sequels similar enough to the original you will be financially successful, despite some critics might complain “doesn’t add enough to the original formula” (what critics like and what sells is another story).

Yup… Sums it up.

So a lot of us think that WvW is very low on the priority list for A-Net because we don’t spend near the amount of $/gold on the gem store… amirite?

Why the kitten haven’t A-Net introduced WvW exclusive armor and weapon skins yet?

Cost 400 gems plus X-amount wvw tokens… yadayadayada

Please people, read this and up-vote.

This is good positive and constructive feedback presented in a non-combative way. We need more like this.

All Hail Fozzik!

Well said Chaba.

Yep, once Mag gets a hold of it you can bet it will be addressed.

#Magswag

This might actually be the single best post I’ve ever seen on these forums.

+1 OP

no +1000!

The new BL’s are fine, and could be really amazing with some adjustments. Remove most (not all) of the vertical terrain and reduce most (not all) of the gimmicks.

Only my opinion.

OP, I see the points you are making and I can totally relate to trying to stay positive in this situation.

Having said that, there is no denying that the new BL’s are a dead zone compared to what they used to be.

DO NOT EVER MAKE SERVERS MERGE OR BRING AN “ALLIANCE” SYSTEM INTO THIS GAME.

Seriously guys, smarten up. Those that fight for zero reason go to EOTM, those that fight for their server do WvW. You already have your bullkitten Alliance game mode, stop messing with mine.

… aaaaand nobody else, my thoughts only.

For the most part I enjoy the PvE in this game, one or two times. I like the story and the lore. Sometimes the game mechanics are fun and challenging. It is something I will do when I have a few hours during the day before what I really do.

I play WvW. I only grind PvE for the gold or Mats to support my raid. WvW is what I log into this game for and what my guild comes to me for.

Arena Net is trying something new with the current BL’s and all the changes we are dealing with, and I am really happy they are finally paying attention to us.

Having said all that I am unhappy with the way things are going. WvW is beyond broken in its current state. It is undeniable that people are not playing.There have been many threads detailing all of the issues and I won’t bother necro-ing that.

Maybe we could open a new CDI Arena Net? Just wipe the slate clean and start again with what people want and what you want. I feel the time is right for us to all come back to the table and make this game great again.

Peace.

Sulla

I love when Coglin shows up, such a White Knight, makes me giggle.

To Coglin…

You seem to have found a Zen place in the new BL’s and the current state of WvW, and I am very happy for you.

When it is only you and this “guild” you talk about, all by yourselves on an empty BL, “winning” against dem doors, I know you will find true happiness.

Honestly, as long as feed back is given in a helpful and constructive manner and devoid of passive/aggressive sniping and quitting threats (lol) I’m sure it will be looked at. What the Wvw community has always failed to realize is that the bigger the temper tantrum the more you are ignored. Child Psych101.

Hmmm.

You may have a point.

Why can’t there be room for both?

Why does everything have to be available to everyone?

“Tell it to the 90% of the playerbase. Please, don’t have super-witty suggestions like this one.”

90%????

Wow! where are you getting your stats from??

Sheesh if only I’dve known that 90% of the playerbase…….

Oh sorry, reality came in and woke me up:)

OP…

Nailed it!

Hmm…

Get gud.

/15 chars

People begged, pleaded, complained, scorned, chided, cajoled (is that even a word anymore?), shamed, demanded etc etc etc

For more challenging content.

The Queensdale Champ train followed by the Something Somewhere Ice-Place Champ Train, soon followed by the Something-In-Orr Champ Train, Silverwastes Gravy Zero-effort Train and a few others I can barely remember. These people willingly did, the whole time slamming A-Net for not giving them “Challenging End Game Content”. Constantly complaining about the “Grind” while never really getting the fact that “Grind” has existed in every video game EVER (seriously, do your homework and GOOGLE before spouting 2011 REDDIT crap).

Now we have (OPTIONAL) challenging end game content, the Zerkers and “casuals who Lone-wolf their own guild” come out of the woodwork to complain because they can’t run it over in 30 minutes or less.

/wrists

I dunno, I am getting used to the new maps. I run a pretty big guild plus militia and we are training them enough that our enemy servers are showing up for fights. There are definitely things that are bad, auto upgrades come to mind and the “vertical” crap but overall, these maps would be fine with a few tweaks and some people on them:)

Once they hit your personal bank they become a currency you can use on all toons.

OK in T3, specifically on Maguuma, we are making a push in NA Prime and EU.

So far it has been really positive in that people are showing up and playing. If more servers do this kind of thing we may be able to resurrect wvw. Perhaps make the BL’s populated again, but it takes a lot of work from the server leaders and the main commanders.

This is Player Driven, and A-Net needs to get the fact that it’s always been the Players that made WvW, not them:)

Stun/immob/knock-down/blind/cripple/fear/knocked-the-kitten-away-for-whatever-reason.

New meta for lazy boring and un-fun game mechanics. Go ask Blizzard how that worked for them.

Infraction incoming. Zero Kittens Given.

The Auto Upgrade system is (imho) terrible.
Seems like the old way was something that we didn’t know what it was until it was gone.
There has to be a human/player element to structures or, as has been stated many times, nobody is going to care, especially when it auto upgrades to full in a couple of hours.
The real issue here, as I see it, is coverage.

Meh. It’s empty on most servers, just use your now-useless guild catas and yawn away.

YES YES YES.
For the love of all that is holy YES.
Sooner the better before everybody quits.

T3, BL’s are dead waste unless a commander wants to K-train. Never hit for fun or anything like that, just karma and loot, then move on.

Yeah, it’s pretty much garbage, pretty garbage but still garbage.

Well said.
/15 chars

I really LOVE the vertical terrain! Why be somewhere quickly when you can just run up and down the same cliff face a few times and enjoy the view!

Make it optional, easy peasy. One click, no rage:)

I have to say I have been really trying to be positive with the new borderland, but I’m running out of steam. Yes, I’m sure it’d be all great if it was full of players all bashing each other over every objective and flocking to the middle for a grand cage match over the “dino-poop-core-thingy-makes-laser” but, as it stands sadly, that is not the case. With server populations they way they are, it is impossible.

The new BL is too big and too full of silly unnecessary jump-through-hoops mechanics. Nobody wants to “Tag Up” to lead their PuG group through an obstacle course just to attack a keep or fight another equally-laden PuG group. It’s too much busy work.

Some PvE in WvW is fine but having to dance around it just to have a battle is, well, boring.

I have had a fair amount crashes as well, usually during a boss fight or in the mega laser event in the new wvw borderlands. Was never an issue pre-HoT.

CD/MAG/SBI..

Tonight was a fairly good reset, to be honest.

There were fights to be had, albeit the new borderlands were not as stacked as they were pre-HoT but that will grow. The biggest problem my guild (and I’m assuming the Bad Guys guilds) had was the server instability causing crashing and disconnects.

People are slowly and reluctantly coming back to WvW, and , in my humble experience, not finding quite the Boogieman they thought it was.

I know some of the new keeps, towers etc are a bit clunky to deal with, and some of the mechanics (auto upgrades) are strange and OP, but the maps are basically the same, a little bigger yes, but the same.

As a long time WvW-r I know we’ll get past all the glitter and party ribbons to get back to the core of what WE want which is large scale PVP.

Just my opinion:)

Agreed, on CD BL the lag was bad but one could make do, SBI BL however was just a massive Kitten-Show, half my group so lagged out they couldn’t use skills or dc-ing. The worst was during the Mega Lazar event in NA prime on SBI BL…. kitten but that was just messy and awful.

So, I found that when running with a Dorito up I was more likely to DC during Keep Boss fights and large scale encounters. Just a guildies theory, but maybe it has something to do with the, hereto Borked, new Squad UI?

When I stopped running the tag the issues went away.

Having said that, others were DC-ing as well who weren’t tagged.

MMORPG.

Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Role Playing Game.

The tax for being a “Lone Wolf” in these games is you simply don’t get the benefits that social players get.

Also, you can be in more than one guild.

So… it wouldn’t be empty because there is and EXPANSION going on or anything, would it?

RIP WvW… in it’s previous form.

And I say Good Riddance.

So, I didn’t find the map particularly hard to navigate, some of the Earth Keep stairs were a bit interesting but nothing that couldn’t be overcome. My group and I blew up several blobs in those lovely choke points that seem just, well, designed to do just that… hmmm

Seems strategy and coordination are going to be the key to these maps unlike brainless PVD, roaming gank squads and the ever tiresome “fites guilds” rolling around.

Kind of like actual warfare.

This map is awesome.

To those that hate the change and complain, how about you give it a month before screaming that the sky is falling.

It is amazing, so much fun.

OK, in light of the Xpac and the obvious need to react and hotfix all the inevitable bugs, crashes, exploits etc that come with any MMO’s expansion, if A-Net says they need the time to ensure a smooth sailing ship I will take that on good faith.

An Expansion is a huge undertaking and all game modes will suffer not just ours. We have to support the company as much as possible to ensure all the bricks fall into place, and I do.

Having said that, what is a reasonable time frame to, at least, re-visit the topic of returning Reset to its accustomed place?

I can’t really say anything more that hasn’t already been said but I just wanted to weigh in here and say that for myself and my guild Friday night Reset is about being social, the one time of the week when the most amount of guildies are on, may or may not involve some drinking and general “Work Week is over” stress relief.

Nobody will be doing that at 11am on a Saturday.

Ok, back in, apparently if you complain enough you get your way:)

TY A-Net.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I think I should point something out: The game is not down. We’re not having a game outage here. It’s true that some players are not able to join, but the game is still accessible — I’m in it now.

So I appreciate people pointing out we’ve had very little down time in our history, and that’s very true, but this isn’t down time, in the true definition of the word. Just had to say.

Except that, for WvW at least, all the main commanders have been kicked and are denied access to the game play we love on, arguably, the most important night of the week.

We are the ones that create guilds, recruit players, train squads and teams, often finance all the siege and consumables, motivate and lead, our personalities are what players come for in all extremes. Reset is a big night for us. Some of us are just very disappointed right now.

Skady.5916:

Barsity,
you really should go try other games if 1-2 hours of downtime once in a blue moon is such a big deal for you. For instance, SWTOR used to bring all the servers down for 2-4 hours every 2-4 weeks just to roll the new build over not mentioning hot-fixes etc.

This is literally first long downtime in 3 years and it does not even affect all players. Just sit back and relax a bit while they are working on it, they brought people back to the office on Friday midnight and you still kittening about it is just ridiculous.

That would be fine, if useless, advice on any other night than WVW reset.

2 hours later….

In other news Skyforge is garbage…

Kuulpb.5412:

Thank you chris, I can only hold this many people at bay for so long!

Are you being paid to White Knight when people are obviously upset?

Edit. I know you are trying to paint a better picture for everyone and that is commendable.

However for some of us Reset night is the best night of the week, it’s not fun and we are understandably upset. No amount of “Hey Guise lets just give ’Em a break” pep talks is going to make it better.

All of us love this game and love A-Net by proxy but it still sux, no matter what light you paint it.

Kuulpb.5412:

Genavelle.9516:

Kuulpb.5412:

Barsity.9408:

Kuulpb.5412:

I keep seeing “wvw night” , Well. yes. it’s the BETA WEEKEND,

It’s reset night for WvW… Some people actually give two kittens about it. Apparently Mike O’Brien doesn’t as per his WvW quotes to Reyana.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LhvuomaJaY

you’re missing the point, it’s the dedicated hot beta weekend. more focus should be on this than wvw, if the ui for their entire expansion is buggy now, it’s better to fix it.

Why can’t they fix bugs in a more closed setting? Or atleast have better timing? 9 pm EST on Friday starts the busiest WvW night of the week. They could have worked on it earlier than that, or they could’ve waited until tomorrow.

And like I said before- why should everyone in the entire game be subjected to HoT-related bugs just because it’s a beta weekend? I haven’t paid for HoT, I can’t participate in beta events, and I don’t want to have to deal with its bugs.

it’s 4:00 am – 5:00 am… when most EU people would be asleep.

Fair enough… but we are talking about NA prime…

Thane.5726:

How is this affecting wvw? Commanders were tagged and its reset night.

Because when the “patch” hit, everyone who was tagged is unable to log back into game.

BonezMcGee.1428:

Feature request: ability to detag at character screen.

^this