^Actually I believe if you invulnerable thanks to skills like Endure Pain you still can get more condi applied to you.
No thanks. I don’t want 50 stacks of PvP salvage kits. Please fix this. Been bothering me for months.
Anet seems obsessed with throwing your greatsword. Mesmers do it. Warriors do it. Rangers do it. Guardians do it (the pull skill).
Convince me to not scrap my warrior to make a dps guardian.
Give me things that a warrior does better than a dps guardian in the job of being a warrior.
pvp
(edited by Turbo Whale.1738)
^ Giant cute asura? Sign me up!
I think the biggest thing you can do though is plug in your headphones and absorb the atmosphere of the game. The music and ambient sounds really do create the PvE experience. Also try not to bounce from one objective on your map to the next. Instead, imagine the world is like a river and you are gracefully flowing down the current to your next destination.
If you have -98% movement condition durations, how come that ranger keeps you crippled for a long time? I would imagine you become invulerable to movement conditions…
i was using my divinity gear set in the fight against the ranger, so i only had the 33% reduction at the time of that fight
Okay. But If you had the -98%. does that make you immune to movement conditions? Like they don’t even get on you in the first place?
If you have -98% movement condition durations, how come that ranger keeps you crippled for a long time? I would imagine you become invulerable to movement conditions…
It gives 3 seconds of Fury/5 Might/Swiftness every 3 seconds for 30 seconds.
This way its harder to steal.
Or you could simply NOT pop it against a S/D Thief. There is always that.
People need to stop using this argument. WVW isn’t a duel arena. More often than not the thief will surprise you when you’re already fighting or something similar to that.
I find it very hard to believe that Warriors are putting themselves in a potision to have their Boons taken from them in the first place. A S/D Thief is designed to steal boons. He does little else. So a common sense counter to this is to NOT use skills that offer boons against a build designed to steal them.
…And that’s it. You just countered the S/D Thief. Instead of Frenzy, use Stomp and laugh as you knock that Thief out of Refuge.
If you don’t like the idea of NOT using Signet of Rage against a build that is meant to counter the effects that specific skill happens to produce, take the banner. Banners have a great mechanic where the boons last a short time, but restack every few seconds. The Thief will rip your boons only for them to last 3 seconds, and yours are constantly reapplied. At the very worst, it keeps both you and the Thief on equal footing with what boons you have.
Or again, you can go the common sense route and simply adapt to your opposition by not rely so heavily on Boons in the wake of CC tools that will make a S/D either get swarmed by your teammates or run away with his tail between his legs.
I like how you forgot to mention the 6k damage that comes with each larc strike and the evasion and auto-homing that opens L strike. I also enjoy how you seem to forget that usually thieves attack when you are already in a fight. So am I not supposed to use my elite skill at all for fear of a stealthed thief teleporting and instantly stealing my 60 sec CD skill?
I want the ability to steal a thieve’s dagger storm or a mesmer’s timewarp or a guardian’s tome of courage. Nope. It’s totally fine for a thief to steal a warrior’s signet of rage at the low low cost of 4(?) intiative.
You know that feel when you are outnumbered in a 2v1 and you pull through to down one enemy You think “Yes! I killed one, now I can focus on this other dude I’m so good!” but then the dude gets rezed in 2 seconds flat and then you die.
Downed state promotes low skill and strength in numbers rather than what we should be aiming for: high skill and effective gameplay.
They are very easy to play. Greatsword is just faceroll in hotjoin. gs + staff combo makes you a god of kiting. nothing touches that other than a thief or another mesmer
Sorry but things like this tend to seperate players even further based on their profession. Already as it is, people hold stigma/hatred for other classes.
“Dragon’s Tooth
Dragon’s Tooth now uses ground-targeting.
Upon fully casting Dragon’s Tooth, the tooth that manifests itself drops immediately.”
Why do people keep suggesting this? Dragon’s tooth is perfect as it is! It is only on an extremely short CD to allow for it to be used to create a lot of pressure and risk vs reward situations. It isn’t supposed to be this super bursty 1 hit ko move it is supposed to build pressure and make your enemies dance or else they taste the pain.
Make stealth atacks ignore blind and unblockable, then steath can end on miss. Otherwise those blinds and blocks way to easy to apply for certain classes.
Yeah I don’t know if I made this clear but hitting aegis wouldn’t break stealth for balancing issues. IDK about blind
I the thief doesn’t touch you, you shouldn’t have any clue about his position.
He also cannot be in stealth indefinitely. He has given time window (3-4 seconds) to stab you, whether he succeeds or not. In fact, you only need to dodge at the end of that window, since he will use the first 2-3 seconds to position in your back. 10 backstabs in a row is a gross exaggeration… 3 maybe, in the best of cases, with all favorable circumstances.
It is assumed that the academy of thieves teaches them the basics of how to handle a dagger without tripping, farting or stabbing themselves with it.
Well the idea is that the thief goes in for a stab but misses. Since the thief is built very light, he has to lean in to get a good stab. Not to mention it requires excellent balance so even the slightest movement should throw the thief off, allowing for the would-be-victim to catch him.
The 10 backstabs in a row was an exaggeration to show my point, but it definitely is not uncommon to see thieves stealth for an extended period of time using hs > blackpowder, shadow refuge, C/D as soon as stealth runs out, or simply chaining stealth cds like HiS allowing for a very large window for making as many backstab attempts as wanted without punishment.
If I dodge a thief’s opening attack from stealth, the thief should become revealed. As it is, I can use my best intuition and planning and dodging to avoid damage against a stealthed thief but this means nothing when the thief can miss 10 backstabs in a row until i blow all of my cd/ dodges. It takes planning, counterplay, and skill to evade a stealthed thief so I think we should be rewarded for doing so.
At the very least, the thief trips and falls down stunned for a second or so if they miss a melee attack from stealth?
Also it will make landing backstabs/tactical strikes more skillful to land considering how much of an advantage they give for how easy it is to pull them off currently.
thoughts? comments?
EDIT: I am not complaining or whining or any of that. I am simply suggesting a way to get thief gameplay into a better area where it requires more skill to pull off great burst damage from stealth. A change like this will benefit everyone in that it makes thief gameplay much more skillful and purposeful.
Also, please stop saying useless comments like “l2play noob op pick up thief and try it”. You contribute nothing to the discussion at all. And not that it means much at all, but I do play thief.
(edited by Turbo Whale.1738)
Idk… last refuge always manages to give me a good laugh. Nothing like traits killing you more often than helping can get ya laughing.
The reason a lot of you guys find fire grab hard to land is because you are used to running around in circles spamming all of your aoe damage/heals. I doubt targeting is even a thing for d/d eles
Bursting 1v2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq1sGqeMN4I
Full match:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9TBEKwbLyU
Sorry for quality.
Just sayin’ but that’s pre-quickness nerf.
Was fighting a p/d gc thief. He came out of stealth to backstab me. All I had to do was mirror-images-blurred frenzy- mind wrack and he dropped from full to 0. Thieves are NOT at all the only class that can pull off crazy burst
The highest backstabs I’ve seen within the past month were around 8k in sPvP against pure glass cannon. You say you don’t know thief well yet you can so arrogantly imply they are OP.
If it helps you out, the new popular thief weapon set is S/D (that means sword/dagger). It allows for the thief to make many teleports to the opponent and back again, powerful skill 1 damage, and boon deleting and stealing. Also each time the thief teleports away using the sword, he removes one condition.
signet build + fire aura on signet use. perma prot and swift and fury and signets will be twice as powerful as before
The sky is an empty abyss. Destitution has brought me down to the lowest form of scum of society. I need to live. I need to survive. I’m panting as I scurry like a rat throughout the city’s allies and over buildings, when I notice a passed out corrupt guard sitting behind the Inn. This is my chance. The gods have given me an amazing opportunity. I blend in the shadows and almost instantly steal from the scumbag. Quite the loot, but not nearly enough. I need more. My mentor has taught me more than this single, simple skill. I get ready to use another thief technique that is ubiquitous among the city’s poor. I reach into my coat and … [DOES NOT COMPLY. DOES NOT COMPLY. SKILL NOT FOUND]
I am a thief, yet I only have 1 skill that ties me to my name. There is a whole trait line dedicated to being a thief. Many different traits dedicated to being a thief. However, there is only one skill that makes me a thief. Sounds a bit weird, doesn’t it? It seems to me that we used to have 4 thief profession skills. These skills are what makes us thieves. These skills are what separates us from assassins and gives us purpose beyond dps machines. These are our class skills.
Our traits are remnants of an old system where we were actually thieves and all but one skill, steal, have been scrapped since then.
Here are some ideas of skills that actually make us thieves.
Skill 1: Shadow and steal from the enemy gaining a skill relevant to the enemy chosen. Activate again to use this new found skill.
Skill 2: Stab a foe with a knife that drains the enemy’s power and channels it into you. Activate again to sever the bond, applying weakness and poison.
Skill 3: With amazing sleight of hand and years of experience, shadow step to your opponent and dismantle parts of his armor while in stealth, adding it to your own. The long you channel this skill while stealthed and in melee range, the more armor you steal.
Skill 4: Flee from the scene of the crime: Shadow step and stealth to a target area. Only useable after using skill 1, skill 2, or skill 3.
I want to be a THIEF and the evidence seems to point that this is what Arena-Net wanted also.
Thanks for reading.
In that case, why not make all boons get removed when you get hit? Same thing right? No defense should last when you get attacked.
aegis?
anyways while i don’t think thieves are impossible to counter, they are the most annoying class to fight. the second you mitigate damage properly they just cloak then shadow step all the way across the map auto heal then come back for round 2. seeing how immobilizing them doesn’t actually stop them from teleporting across the map you practically can’t keep them within range unless their poor judgement keeps them withing your attack range.
which is one of my biggest gripes about thieves, how is it ok for a thief to use up all his initiative (which can easily down most players who failed to mitigate the damage) and then before i can do nearly enough damage to down him, its regenerated enough for him to just flee? maybe the thief isn’t op, but he sure is cheap. which is why i also agree that a thief should get knocked out of stealth when hit. if we(non-thieves) have to react in half a second to a thieves burst damage to survive, they should have to play more careful while in stealth imo.
TLDR
the thief should have a little bit harder of a time getting out of combat if they chose to use up all there initiative trying to burst someone down.
What? The only teleport thieves have that don’t require a target and don’t require initiative is the 50 second CD shadow step utility that goes 1200 range. Report thieves for hacking if they are shadowstepping across the map and back again.
Not fair..You need to say your enemies first that if they DODGE your rtl they cut its effectiveness at half.If you do then it becomes harder when fighting people :P
I thought the same. I almost always dodge RTL because it’s not hard to notice a giant blue electric ball coming at you. However, I imagine it will be even if your target dodges, it still keeps the 20 sec cd
Shatter burst is too easy. It isn’t hard at all to instantly summon 2 clones and shatter them giving an opponent 0 reaction time but minus 4-8k health.
Staff is too easy. Just have 3 clones out spamming conditions and teleport back every 5 seconds.
There are super tanky condition damage mesmers popping up in wvw that just sit there with chaos armor up most of the time and max clones up meaning you either die from poison/burn/bleed or you kill yourself on confusion. This build can be countered, but it is just too easy to play and requires a very skilled player to beat a much lower skilled player that is playing this build.
All in all mesmer is too easy to play. Clones being super easy/quick to manufacture, lots of teleports,invul, perma vigor, 0 reaction time burst make it too easy.
From my understanding the first hit of FS will delete a boon from the enemy, the second one will do lots of damage, and the third optional hit will steal a boon? Isn’t this kinda bad because you might delete a 25 might stack but steal retaliation? Why can’t both hits be boon steals?
Also, from the looks of it, Assassin’s signet will be getting a 180 passive power buff. This is amazing!
All of these changes sound very exciting. I’m really happy with the retaliation change. Rather than keeping it as a boon that engis can have for seemingly the whole fight to get a free 10k damage off, now it will be more bursty and have a shorter length. I like. But it sounds like if you AoE multiple people with retal that could bring you down easily.
New necro condition sounds like fun. It’s good condi necros get love in DS.
Mug isn’t being nerfed. It is being changed.
well, for we also have initiative as our class mechanic. we are the only class that can spam abilities, if all the complaints about how op HS spam is have escaped you. we can do things like evasion spam with certain builds that other classes have no hope of doing because of our flexible resource system. the problem comes when people ignore initiative because it is in the background. if you main a thief it is far less obvious than other mechanics, but no less powerful. also, as for modifying steal “only mug gets chosen” is full of crap. I know of several builds that take bountiful theft and/or thrill of the crime. honestly the only steal trait I never see is the daze on steal from 30 points into trickery.
Initiative is just another way of playing the game. It isn’t like shatters or attunements that add so much more to the class. It is just a different way to manage skills.
Edit: And as for spamming skills : Blowing away one’s initiative with a single predictable move repeatedly hasn’t been a problem since a couple of weeks after launch.
And okay, lets say that the steal traits other than mug get used often, is the CD reduction for going into trickery on one skill justified? And how effective is traiting for steal? You get the effects every 45-30ish seconds on one skill while eles fly through attunements, mesmers shatter relentlessly, ranger pet skills constantly barrage you, etc.
(edited by Turbo Whale.1738)
Someone posted a similar thread earlier and I will give him/her credit for the idea when I find who it is. I feel like they touched on the subject but I want to go further into it.
Mesmers get 4 different shatters.
Elementalists get 4 different attunements
Engineers get 4 different skills based on their utilities
Guardians get 3 virtues which become life saving when traited properly.
Necros get a second HP bar and 4 new skills.
Rangers get a wide range of abilities with pets and their abilities. I’ve seen tanky rangers burst for 7k damage with their pet in sPvP.
Thieves get a shadow step that gives a nice skill also. Great. This is good.
But, we have a whole trait line dedicated to reducing the cooldown on this ONE skill.
We have many traits scattered everywhere dedicated to improving this ONE skill (only Mug gets chosen, which further shows how traiting deep for just one skill is useless).
Not to mention this skill doesn’t really add anything unique or interesting to the thief other than the handful of skills it offers.
What’s the point of all of the traits and CD reduction and yadda yadda yadda just to affect one skill that isn’t nearly as effective as the simple attunement swap of an ele or the 4 amazing shatter skills a mesmer has.
The person who posted the original thread thought it would be a good idea to remove deceptions from the game and make them a thief’s F1-4 skills. Many people said this would be overpowered because it is like giving thieves 3 free utilities. But, what if in some alternate universe, mesmer shatters were utility skills but they only kept mindwrack for F1 and had to use utilities for the others? Or if elementalists had only one attunement but had to slot the others in utilities? So what I’m saying is that we shouldn’t look at possibly giving all of the deception skills to a thief as F1-F4 as overpowered because they were once utilities when you can imagine if a mesmer or an ele was in the same spot as us.
Please give feedback and post. Thanks for reading.
I’m not saying you do, but why do lots of people keep asking for long range pew pew pew with a thief? I mean, by default without any utilities or weapon skills, we already get a 900 range instant shadowstep. A lot of the more mobile thief builds fly around the battle like nobody’s business, traversing massive distances in small periods of time.
Anyways, these rifle skills seem to be next to useless as a whole. It seems to be just a troll weapon where the thief uses infiltrator’s retreat and spams long range skills. IF thieves were to get a rifle, I hope hammers and greatswords also come to us -.-. Not much point in discussing it.
This looks like something due for a nerf. The 66% to apply confusion on being hit is absolutely ridiculous. The idea behind the build is that enemies are forced to kill themselves just from playing the game considering chaos armor can be kept up for an extremely long time and cannot be stripped. Very nice build however and it looks like tons of fun. I will definitely be trying it out.
What’s the point? Usually spotting the real mesmer is quite easy and even if it wasn’t,
I’d rather play the game like it was meant to be played rather than manipulating the UI in order to make the fight against a mesmer easier.
No, this is all wrong. What you do is roll through each attunement pressing every button. 2 feet away from enemy? Ride the Lightning it is!
Remember: The most important part is to always always always make sure all skills are on CD before rolling into the next attunement.
BAHAHAHAHAHAH SOOO FUNNY!
Nty I love necro
sPvP achievements shouldn’t give laurels. I’m seeing multiple rank 3s doing tournaments and not even trying so they can farm out their 10 laurels and leave.
Cool. Personally, I feel like Mesmers may be the best class to solo champs with just because of how slow they attack and how often we poop clones.
No support. The Mesmer isn’t a sprinter. We distort space to travel. Blink. Illusionary Leap/Swap. Phase retreat.
If you want the convenience for traveling out of combat, a focus switch can be done extremely quickly, and the only sacrifice you have to make is the 10c to buy a focus. Not to mention it goes to all of your buddies also.
Just opened it on Anvil rock 6pm west coast. After ~8 tries.
1. Duelist doesn’t do as much direct damage.
2. Sword/Sword and light armor is my favorite looking gear in the game.
3. Sword has a block on 11 (?) sec cd that does as much damage as the swordsman if a hit is blocked, or you can use it to fire a daze.
In all honesty, all weapons shine in their own moments and I would be lying if I said I don’t change my weapon load outs often in WvW and PvE.
It’s good when you are roaming in WvW and you see a level 5 up leveled hero coming your way because you can rocket boot off the cliff and respawn quick to avoid any conflict.
Thanks for the support, guys. Anet seems to be doing really well in selling the backpacks so now would be a great time for this issue to get noticed and maybe us engi’s can get a little love.
There are plenty of ways of going about this problem including the cash shop or not. A simple toggle to disable the hobo sack could go very far.
The easiest solution in my opinion is allowing us to toggle whether or not to hide the toolkit when it is out. The ideal solution in my opinion would be to create a plethora unique and awesome engineer kit skins including cool flamethrowers and elixir guns etc.
I’ll make this quick. I posted something similar to this thread months ago but I feel like now might be a better time for this to get noticed because of ANET’s great success in the plush backpacks.
Situation (Optional Read): So I’m walking down Lion’s Arch and the sylvari ladies are swooning (and some of the men). A little flex of that 3 inch circumference bicep and they go wild. That Nightmare Court Set shows how much of a bad-boy my sylvari is. I’m feeling a little kitteny so I decide to put on a little fire show for my amazed spectators so I slot my grenade kit. However, to my dismay, the hobo sack instantly drains all of my charisma. My 3 inch bicep reduces to a 1 inch instantly. My nightmare court gear instantly withers away to dust. The show was over before it even began. The once entranced sylvari ladies now walk over to the suave elementalist who displays a fire show so great, it nearly made a steam vegetable mix out of the audience. I log out, uninstall, drive over to ANET HQ, and dump 10 lbs of freshly steamed garden salad in front of their doors.
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Story Time over
-This game is based on cosmetics. Endgame is based on cosmetics. Dungeon armor serves only to provide cosmetics. People spend hours and hours on cosmetics.
-Engineers must wear hobo sacks and stow their weapons during parts of fights. Almost all engineers have at least 1 hobo sack in his/her utility slots.
- Hobo sacks are ugly. They cover the beautiful plush backpack items. My hobo sack doesn’t match my bad-boy Nightmare Court wardrobe.
Solution: 1. Allow cosmetic upgrades to hobo sacks available in the gem store (Maybe I can turn my cute quaggan backpack into a grenade bag?). 2. Allow us to use kits without having hobo sacks. 3. Let us display our stowed weapons while using grenades or a flamethrower, etc.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Simplest and most efficient fix: Give us a toggle to hide or show hobo-sacks when we have a kit equipped. It’s probably an easy update, it is optional (so those who want to keep the hobo look can), and it will probably help sales for the new quaggan and charr backpacks.
Thanks.
(Edit: Added a story to the top for a more interesting time with the thread)
(edited by Turbo Whale.1738)
Are you joking? Skill 3 is a cone knock-back on a ridiculously short cool down. Skill 5 is an instant-activation pbaoe blind. How can you even MORE cc on the flamethrower when engis are already the kings of cc.
Engis complain about how the only useful engi is a glasscannon nade engi and they still complain time and time again after each effort that is made to improve the viability of toolkits.