(edited by TurtleDragon.3108)
Farming daily achievements and doing living story makes you good at dungeons. Like, so very good.
Hey guys. I just got back to GW2 after about a year away. Have a lvl 80 Thief but am rolling a ranger ( 25 atm ) as a new main class. I’m really enjoying the class but i’ve been reading up on it and have been discouraged by the number of complaints against it. Read up on one particular high lvl ranger’s bad experiences in PVE and how its one of the most hated classes in GW2 at the moment and that makes me wonder whether i rolled the wrong class
Its going to be used more for WvW but also for some dungeons and PVE stuff. Did I choose right?
Ranger is fine in PvE if you’re willing to learn how to use the sword and adapt to the meta. It’s hated among the community and lfg’s with “No ranger/engi/necros” are fairly common, but you can always just make your own group or join a dungeon guild to avoid this issue. Try not to to play in PvE with the same mindset/build that you do in WvWvW though.
Can someone please post some videos of these no-skip/any class/any build dungeon runs? I would love to see a 1 hour CoF P1 run.
I’m assuming this is for PvE. Use the nature magic variant, but take 10 points out of marksmanship, and put 5 in Skirmishing and Nature Magic. Swap Nature Magic V for IV with Frost Spirit on your bar and you have a decent ranger build. Also, avoid using ranged pets if you can.
Sword auto attack changes and more greatsword buffs. Can’t wait.
LB AA @1000 range with full zerker usually does between 3-5k on NPC bosses. Instead of rapid fire, take quickening zephyr and quickness on crit sigil. And boom, you suddenly up your DPS by loads (attack rate okittenoes up, and so does your DPS).
@500 range or less, sword + axe and warhorn all the way.if all you can do is 3k-5k with rapid fire then ill agree with you on you shouldn’t be playing ranger b/c you don’t know how to play it.
I am doing 2.5k- 3.k on auto attack and 10k-13k with rapid fire and this is with no buff so tell me what your damage with sword or axe and warhorn is and then we can talk
My sword auto’s can hit for 6k without blood lust stacks and with cheap food.
Sorry my friend but your lie’s are easy to see , raw damage on a sword is 202 when LB raw damage is 312, there no way you can out dps LB auto damage , would had believe your lie if you had say 3k ,then I would say not bad since sword has a shorted time but 6k lol that’s the biggest BS I have been told
o wait blood lust stack 25 oh k I can believe that, but remember I can do 3k with out stack of blood lust , that just makes me wonder how much damage I would out dps the sword if I had 25k stack
I’m not even going to bother explaining what’s wrong with your math (hint: highest hit or channel =/= highest DPS), but just for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxJAU6FVWWAThis isn’t fully buffed and played pretty poorly from me, but it backs up what I said.
There nothing wrong with my math which is the reason you cant explain it,
All you just show me is how much damage a sword can do when a boss has 25 stack of vulnerability and you have 25 of might , which is a limit of 6k and what I am telling you is that LB with 0 vulnerability and 0 might can do up 3k a hit I bet that LB can do easy 9k a hit with that much buff on it
Hmm… I wonder why you never have 25 stacks of might as a 1000+ range longbow user.
In the time it takes for you to hit that 9k shot once, I could hit 8.1k twice with a sword.
LB AA @1000 range with full zerker usually does between 3-5k on NPC bosses. Instead of rapid fire, take quickening zephyr and quickness on crit sigil. And boom, you suddenly up your DPS by loads (attack rate okittenoes up, and so does your DPS).
@500 range or less, sword + axe and warhorn all the way.if all you can do is 3k-5k with rapid fire then ill agree with you on you shouldn’t be playing ranger b/c you don’t know how to play it.
I am doing 2.5k- 3.k on auto attack and 10k-13k with rapid fire and this is with no buff so tell me what your damage with sword or axe and warhorn is and then we can talk
My sword auto’s can hit for 6k without blood lust stacks and with cheap food.
Sorry my friend but your lie’s are easy to see , raw damage on a sword is 202 when LB raw damage is 312, there no way you can out dps LB auto damage , would had believe your lie if you had say 3k ,then I would say not bad since sword has a shorted time but 6k lol that’s the biggest BS I have been told
o wait blood lust stack 25 oh k I can believe that, but remember I can do 3k with out stack of blood lust , that just makes me wonder how much damage I would out dps the sword if I had 25k stack
I’m not even going to bother explaining what’s wrong with your math (hint: highest hit or channel =/= highest DPS), but just for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxJAU6FVWWA
This isn’t fully buffed and played pretty poorly from me, but it backs up what I said.
(edited by TurtleDragon.3108)
LB AA @1000 range with full zerker usually does between 3-5k on NPC bosses. Instead of rapid fire, take quickening zephyr and quickness on crit sigil. And boom, you suddenly up your DPS by loads (attack rate okittenoes up, and so does your DPS).
@500 range or less, sword + axe and warhorn all the way.if all you can do is 3k-5k with rapid fire then ill agree with you on you shouldn’t be playing ranger b/c you don’t know how to play it.
I am doing 2.5k- 3.k on auto attack and 10k-13k with rapid fire and this is with no buff so tell me what your damage with sword or axe and warhorn is and then we can talk
My sword auto’s can hit for 6k without blood lust stacks and with cheap food.
Answer: there is no dungeon team. It will not get changed until/unless it effects the living story.
/thread
Well, it kinda did at one point (TA Aetherpath), but it still wasn’t changed lol. Even the living story can’t save us from the host system.
But then they also added aetherpath, and those skins are exactly what you’re asking for. I suspect aetherpath is almost never run, though, and that probably makes them think that this sort of reward isn’t worth spending time on (even if the main problem is just that people don’t like aetherpath much, although tbh I do like it and wish I could get people to run it more often).
This is pretty much exactly what OP is asking, and proof that such rare drops are no incentive as all as Aetherpath is pretty much dead content.
Aetherpath weapons are also just recolours of Nightmare weapons.
Just use berserker gear and range encounters you feel are too difficult to melee. You won’t find any groups capable of meleeing fights like mossman, ice elemental and arch diviner in the average PUG/guild. GS is fine if you feel sword is too difficult to use, the damage will be quite far behind sword however. You do need the GS for any max melee range fights instead of sword. Though, i do recommend practicing with sword as much as you can, you may end up liking it.
Ranger is in a good place in PvE. A well played ranger is a great addition to any group. A bad ranger is a dead weight and a liability (pet aggro issues).
Unfortunately, Ranged weapons (longbow/shortbow/Axe) aren’t good, and never will be.
There isn’t a single word in this post that can be trusted, Ghuy. Well other than a bad ranger being dead weight. But pretty much the ONLY CLASS that isn’t deadweight from a bad player being on it, is Warrior. But the fact is, anything besides a great player, is deadweight when on Ranger. (and would contribute a lot more on any other class)
lol, this guy. And it very very possible for warriors to be dead weight. Ever run into a warrior without banners and FGJ? They’re just as useless as the average bearbow ranger while camping their GS thinking they do amazing DPS. Worst when they use Sword mainhand too.
My post is very accurate tyvm.
Ranger is in a good place in PvE. A well played ranger is a great addition to any group. A bad ranger is a dead weight and a liability (pet aggro issues).
Unfortunately, Ranged weapons (longbow/shortbow/Axe) aren’t good, and never will be.
This reminds me why I only run instances as a casual or play WoW. The “you must be this class and this spec to run with us” mentality that permeates most MMOs. Don’t know why Devs bother making classes for the game. Should just have a set group of characters with preset builds for instances. That seems to be the mentality of people like the majority posting in this thread. IT’S A GAME! YOU’RE NOT BEING PAYED TO PLAY IT! Just grab folks and have fun.
And that’s perfectly okay if you want to play that way. But the issue is when people of conflicting playstyles, mindsets or goals group together. People with your attitude (not saying you) will join Berserker-melee-speed-clear runs without wanting to play that way, and complain about it. The opposite is also a problem, where people who want to speed through content will join casual runs, or description less groups (ie. “P1”).
Actually, TA UP record was done with a mesmer which ported the party directly onto the spider :p
http://gwscr.com/records/current-meta-dungeon-records
Current record is done with 2 eles, 1 war, 1 thief, 1 guardian for both unrestricted and restricted.
For curiosity’s sake, mind telling me what comp you consider an optimal one?
Casual Non-PUG Runs:
1 Ele
1 Warrior
1 Ranger
1 Guardian
1 Mesmer
Speed Clear Records:
1-2 Eles
1-2 Warrior
0-1 Thief
0-1 Mesmers
0-1 Guardians
Composition will vary depending on the dungeon. (ie. 2 ele 1 thief 1 war 1 guard for TA)
Keep in mind, there is a very clear difference between wanting to go for a world record on gwscr, and wanting to do content fast and efficiently.
(edited by TurtleDragon.3108)
The Ranger is NEVER brought to the party for DPS, the ranger is brought for support/utility. If you are doing CoF 1 where every encounter is single target then by all means, spec for that.
OH training is too good to pass over for any organized group
Also, you are basing this on math for the ranger where a good chunk of your DPS is single target only (pet)? The boost in damage you gain from increased reflect coverage, lower path of scars/COTW/whirling defense is far superior then the measly boost from your own crit chance/damage, which is BY DEFAULT of lower gains then for other classes.
spotter, frost spirit, good fury, utility. That is why you are brought over a second warrior. A proper group will keep might high and your pet will get it via fortifying bond, so you dont need pet might on crit.
As far as your own DPS goes, single target DPS is far lower then both warriors and thiefs, and it is not effective in a lot of situations as you have to stand still and whack away.
If that were true, organized groups wouldn’t even bring a ranger in the first place. DPS matters, and rangers that don’t build like you are competitive enough to be worth bringing one. 5% less dps than warriors is not “far lower”, and most classes are “far lower” DPS if you compare them to thieves and eles.
Offhand training in organized groups is laughable for most situations. There’s a few situations where it would be used such kitten ranger Lupicus, but no organized speed clear would take offhand training for general dungeoning.
Path of scars has a long cooldown, your fights need to last a minute before you gain an extra activation of the skill, which at that point the gain is laughable if the fight is taking that long. It’s not something that’s easily going to even remotely compete with 25 in skirmishing. Whirling defense is also a channeled ability that does less DPS than auto attacking and requires you to stand still. Call of the wild is also a DPS loss compared to auto attacking, unless you use it while out of range of your target.
Might from fortifying bond only lasts 10s, so your pet is not going to sustain might stacks without you giving it might.
~39% base crit is too low to have any sort of reasonable DPS.
Seriously stop it with brainless copy pasting builds that have been the meta 2 months ago. The loss of dps is minimal compared to the utility you gain from traited offhand training.
Here we go with the copy/paste thing again…
In the past 2+ months, there hasn’t been any major balance change to both the ranger class, and the AI/mechanics of this game, so the meta is still the same. It’s not brainless if you understand why it’s the meta, stop assuming everyone is uninformed or doesn’t know how to spreadsheet or math out things.
It’s also a gigantic dps loss, stop calling it minimal.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBMhF6koiqKjswKIWLDELF7Z/cGHKReGl6UZ8TJyeA-jwBBYfERjkfgUBDRLzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e
or
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84268-the-perfect-dps-ranger-guide-for-real/You’ll need to change your weapons, utilities and even your pets for the content you are doing. There are times and places where it’s appropriate to use a Longbow, but usually never when you’re stacking (because why use a ranged weapon when you’re in melee range anyways. Since ranged weapons are almost universally across the board lower damage and don’t cleave which makes them bad for trash). Sword will take a while to get used to, as it has a steep learning curve. GS is fine when you’re still learning how to melee encounters. Pure sword > pure GS > pure LB should be your priority when picking weapons.
If you want to be the most useful you can be to your party follow this. I use the 20/25/0/25/0 exclusively outside of Wvw/Spvp (mostly cos im lazy lol) and only change a few traits and utilities here and there. For instance on the marionette lanes i would switch sic’em for muddy terrain to use on the spawning champs.
One thing i will mention is the pets. In the 20/25/0/25/0 build posted you will notice that there is the jaguar and river drake. The jaguar is excellent as it’s F2 attack stealths (deagro when health low) but also provides higher DPS and autocrits for the duration. The river drake’s F2 ability hits like a truck AND bounces around targets, this is excellent for groups of mobs like trash etc, it also has a blast finisher with its tail swipe (also hits hard) so its good in the stack.
However, depending on your party make up you may want to consider 1 or 2 other pets. This will depend on how well you know other classes and their builds as you may notice that your party is lacking in important (dps wise) boons such as fury or might. The stalker’s F2 ability grants 5 stacks of might which synergize well with the build, general DPS wise its the same as the jaguar hence why alot of people run the 2 cats. The Moa provides Fury from its F2 and this may be necessary when your not using horn or its party wide lacking.
So this is why people dislike the “bearbow” gameplay as not only is the weapon lacking in this type of content but also the pet and it’s F2 abilities.
Just remember, hater’s gonna hate…but they also gonna kick
The build I linked is what I use in guild speed clears, where might/fury is never an issue and I just blast my WH in a fire field while stacking might. I use the Jungle Stalker instead of Jaguar in PUGs and I use Ice drake/Red Moa instead of river drake as the swap pet.
This is the basic pet guide I’ve posted a few times here.
Jaguar:Use for single target fights
River Drake: Use for trash and multi target fights or for blast finisher. Use ice/marsh/salamander drakes if you want chilled/poison/burning
Jungle Stalker: Use for single target fights and when your party is not reaching 25 might stacks
Red Moa: Use for singlet target and when your party doesn’t have perma fury for some reason
Birds do identical DPS to felines if you prefer those.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBMhF6koiqKjswKIWLDELF7Z/cGHKReGl6UZ8TJyeA-jwBBYfERjkfgUBDRLzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e
or
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84268-the-perfect-dps-ranger-guide-for-real/You’ll need to change your weapons, utilities and even your pets for the content you are doing. There are times and places where it’s appropriate to use a Longbow, but usually never when you’re stacking (because why use a ranged weapon when you’re in melee range anyways. Since ranged weapons are almost universally across the board lower damage and don’t cleave which makes them bad for trash). Sword will take a while to get used to, as it has a steep learning curve. GS is fine when you’re still learning how to melee encounters. Pure sword > pure GS > pure LB should be your priority when picking weapons.
So this is coming from a max dps perspective im assuming? What other suggestions would you have?
Thanks so far for what you have given, it all helps.
Made this for you
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBjYD7koiqKjswKIWLDErH7Z//hz4QFyfoUZc3JyeA-jwBBYfERzkfwUBDRLzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e
LB + s/wh is a balanced set. Use sword for trash, stacking or when your entire party is meleeing the boss. LB for everything else.
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBMhF6koiqKjswKIWLDELF7Z/cGHKReGl6UZ8TJyeA-jwBBYfERjkfgUBDRLzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e
or
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/84268-the-perfect-dps-ranger-guide-for-real/
You’ll need to change your weapons, utilities and even your pets for the content you are doing. There are times and places where it’s appropriate to use a Longbow, but usually never when you’re stacking (because why use a ranged weapon when you’re in melee range anyways. Since ranged weapons are almost universally across the board lower damage and don’t cleave which makes them bad for trash). Sword will take a while to get used to, as it has a steep learning curve. GS is fine when you’re still learning how to melee encounters. Pure sword > pure GS > pure LB should be your priority when picking weapons.
The LB may suck in PvE , but its what i like to use.
The defence of every Bearbow, cleric staff guard, shout heal warr and what-not…
I’m trying to roleplay, not min/max.
My synergy with both weapons are this: LB max ranged for damage, when fountain heal is up, i leap with my GS to heal my party on boss, run through all GS moves. Rinse Repeat.
That’s synergy with Healing Spring, not synergy between your weapons. Your longbow does less damage the closer you are to your target. A GS rotation brings you into the longbow’s weak spot, and doesnt bring you out unless you waste the #3 skill hitting nothing. Your longbow’s strong point is 1200 range, which leaves you and the rest of your party out of range of most skills (including the leap heal)
I use GS only for max melee range fights, and for skipping trash mostly. GS/LB isn’t really a good combo.
If i truly want to support in PvE, ill use my engi or guard.
This isn’t really the attitude to take into a group environment, you always want to make yourself as useful as possible to a group in dungeons. Rangers are great offensive support and “okay” defensive support.
Asura is the master race.
I have both a charr and asura engineer, and I like my asura engi much much more. Don’t have to deal with tail clipping and gigantic hobosacks.
Terrible idea, we’re not supposed to be pet summoners. We’re supposed to always be that pet-class, no matter how much it may or may not handicap us.
Main issues to address are F2’s, buff sharing, and scaling. Pet survivability is fine outside of zerg content.
Signet builds aren’t really helpful for the team, and are usually pretty selfish (with the exception of maybe signet of renewal). Due to way boons work in this game, you’re going to want atleast 15 points in nature magic, so that your pet can get past the 5 target limit and receive boons. The skirmishing grandmaster minor trait is also much stronger than the marksmanship grandmaster minor trait, especially without remorseless. Scholar runes are also better than Ranger runes.
Basically, the only 2 viable builds for rangers are 30/25/0/15/0 and 20/25/0/25/0
What traits would you suggest for both builds?
Im working on a LB/GS build right now.
Marksmanship: I, VII, (XII if 30 pts)
Skirmishing: I, (V or X)
Nature Magic: IV, (V or VII or IX if 25 pts)
This is an MMO and MMO’s take time to get through, this isn’t a little first person shooter that you can sit down and beat in two hours. Welcome to time sinker the MMO. What is the point of playing a game if all you want to do is get through it as fast as possible. You might as well just play another game.
Just going to point out that stacking is also a legitimate tactic in other MMO’s as well. I.e. stack during a damage intensive phase to make it easier for healers to heal. There’s also no real challenging or progression instanced content in this game, which is why we just try to get through it as fast as possible for fun or rewards. We’ve also had mostly the same dungeon content for the past ~14 months, with few new paths/fractals.
Signet builds aren’t really helpful for the team, and are usually pretty selfish (with the exception of maybe signet of renewal). Due to way boons work in this game, you’re going to want atleast 15 points in nature magic, so that your pet can get past the 5 target limit and receive boons. The skirmishing grandmaster minor trait is also much stronger than the marksmanship grandmaster minor trait, especially without remorseless. Scholar runes are also better than Ranger runes.
Basically, the only 2 viable builds for rangers are 30/25/0/15/0 and 20/25/0/25/0
(edited by TurtleDragon.3108)
Frost Spirit is different from other spirits, it has no Internal Cooldown. It works on all attacks in the 6s window. Sun, water and storm can only proc once every 10 seconds.
It depends on what you are doing. If you are face stomping easy content, who cares, right?
5 people with that attitude is the difference between a dungeon taking 10 minutes and 20 minutes. It’s not an excuse to play sub optimally.
If you are playing more difficult content, a little party heal, here or there helps team keep pressure on, without loosing damage over time evading and ressing downed allies.
You can do all that with the meta build and berserker gear. You don’t need to run clerics with 0/0/30/30/20 or whatever to heal your party.
Slightly decrease damage output by dropping eagle eye for spotter. Team will do more with 750 precision than you will with 5% extra dmg. Should be obvious.
Not sure why you’re agreeing with me? Builds like the ones you were promoting don’t take spotter.
A ranger will get one shoted at PB range by most things, so the risk is not worth the reward. Pure dps builds don’t work well past 30 either, too much unblockable damage
It’s always worth the risk because the difference between melee and ranged damage in this game is very big. Everything is avoidable if you know how to.
No, everything is not avoidable. You will run out of endurance in any good fight, unless you are noobing at max range. If you can’t take a hit, you can’t res and are that much more useless to a team. I’d always rather have an AH guardian over a zerker who can’t res. Biggest let down are zerkers who take a dirt nap every 10s because they “lagged” in the .25s window they had to dodge something that was easily avoidable.
If you don’t have endurance when you need to dodge, then you need to get better at managing your endurance and cooldowns, or to kill the boss faster. You’re supposed to be using more than just your endurance to survive anyways for the harder fights.
Trick is to bring only enough extra survivability that you need to get by. It is also much easier on some classes than others. Most importantly: don’t waste your dodges.
It depends on what you are doing. If you are face stomping easy content, who cares, right?
5 people with that attitude is the difference between a dungeon taking 10 minutes and 20 minutes. It’s not an excuse to play sub optimally.
If you are playing more difficult content, a little party heal, here or there helps team keep pressure on, without loosing damage over time evading and ressing downed allies.
You can do all that with the meta build and berserker gear. You don’t need to run clerics with 0/0/30/30/20 or whatever to heal your party.
Slightly decrease damage output by dropping eagle eye for spotter. Team will do more with 750 precision than you will with 5% extra dmg. Should be obvious.
Not sure why you’re agreeing with me? Builds like the ones you were promoting don’t take spotter.
A ranger will get one shoted at PB range by most things, so the risk is not worth the reward. Pure dps builds don’t work well past 30 either, too much unblockable damage
It’s always worth the risk because the difference between melee and ranged damage in this game is very big. Everything is avoidable if you know how to.
There is no build available that will fit all of that criteria.
As a newer ranger desperately trying to find the right build, I would love to see these two meta builds you guys mentioned. Struggling to track them down on my own.
It’s 20/25/0/15/0 with the last 10 points spent in Marksmanship or Nature Magic.
30/25/0/15/0:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBMhF6koiqKjswKIWLDErH7Z//hz4QJyfoUZ8TJyeA-jwBBYfERjkfgUBDRLzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e
20/25/0/25/0:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBMhF6koiqKjswKIWLDELF7Z/cGHKReGl6UZ8TJyeA-jwBBYfERjkfgUBDRLzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqGA-e
Best idea so far.
I’m rage quitting every time I get dredge now.
I still see little value in it dungeon-wise. Keeping it on Rangers, would I really want to give up a better dps Drake/Cat for one that does a chill, use a utility slot for Frost Trap, position Frost Spirit in harms way so it can proc with its activated ability, or even use Axe main-hand for Axe 3? Let alone give up sigils such as force, night, bloodlust, x-slaying for a chill one? My preference is still no on all of those. I don’t think delaying a move for a couple of seconds is worth the drop in dps from a Ranger’s perspective but to each their own on this one I guess. For the movement speed reduction, it’s something nice when needed – the cooldown reduction, not “extremely strong” by any means, especially when compared to other utilities considered strong such as Aegis and reflect.
You act as if you have to do all of that when the reality is you just press F2 when you need it. The DPS increase from other drakes to river drake is negligible at best and the ice breath is the same as salamander and reef anyways. Utility is just as important as damage.
And yeah, I wouldn’t call chill “extremely strong” either.(I know it wasn’t you who said it). It’s a niche condition, mediocre to good in some situations, useless in others.
An engineer’s role in dungeons is to stack vulnerability and might, since that what they are good at. Grenade kit and bomb kit are the two main kits to use in dungeons, so try to get familiar with those. They can also do other neat tricks too, such as stack stealth.
The dying a lot part will be due to a lack of experience in dungeons, it’ll get better the more you do dungeons. My advice is to just stick with it and eventually you’ll learn all the tells and things to avoid.
Here’s a good guide on the current engineer meta:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/GUIDE-The-Meta-rific-Dungeoneer/first
It’s not the slow thats useful, but the 66% cooldown increase. Although, the slow is also helpful on ranged/kite fights.
Mobs don’t suffer from cooldowns :| And if some do, it’s still not effective since any cooldowns on mobs are low, resulting at times with some bosses doing the same special move twice in a row at times, couple the issue that a majority of mobs have only one (auto) attack.
Yeah they do, it depends on the mob. Ginva the Butcher is an example of one where chilling is actually helpful. His whirling defense has a 15s cd, you can delay it by 10 seconds with chilled.
(edited by TurtleDragon.3108)
You guys are undervaluing chilled way too much, it’s not a useless condition.
It’s not that chill is undervalued, it’s more like chill sees very little use in a majority of dungeon/pve content since Anet doesn’t have enough encounters where the slow would be more useful.
It’s not the slow thats useful, but the 66% cooldown increase. Although, the slow is also helpful on ranged/kite fights.
Ice Drake-condition aside take a glance at the dmg of f2 compared to the other drakes.
It’s (F2) damage is the same as the Marsh, Salamander, and Reef (F2) abilities. However tool-tips couldn’t be more spotty in this game. All four of those Drakes’ (F2) abilities are meant to be read as total damage from all 5 attacks landing. Only the River Drake’s (F2) displays damage per attack. Also, the Salamander, Reef, and Ice Drake’s (F2) are frontal cones, not ideal in dungeons to cover multiple targets spread about, even in stacks where targets can completely avoid their breath attack by being inside, beside, or slightly behind the Drake. Marsh’s (F2) being the one exception that does similar damage as the others but can bounce for better coverage on top of poison damage as a bonus. Ice Drake is the worst Drake to bring in dungeons.
For dungeons? Perhaps. For fractals, no. Fire breath is arguably more useless. You guys are undervaluing chilled way too much, it’s not a useless condition.
The conal breath is not an issue with proper stacking or curtain/GS pulling.
Best way to deal with it is to join a dungeon guild, or build up a friends list of good dungeon runners.
We’ll never really know who has the best and worst DPS unless we get an accurate comprehensive DPS meter. Until then its all speculation and conjecture. The best I could do was test some builds and classes on a single target. If I rank the best tests class by class its Ele>Mesmer>Guard>Engi>others*. This is enough for me to say that we’re in a pretty good spot.
*All dependent on gear, build, rotation, skill, boons, conditions and encounter obviously.
Blood~
It’s not speculation, it’s theory crafted . And your list will be more accurate if you added thief into the top 3. So that places engineer at bottom 4.
- Why Ice Drake? Chill isn’t that great in PvE.
Chilled is good in PvE, especially on fractals trash.
- Fern hound heal is really low imo. Is it worth using? :/
When you’re pugging with bads? Sure. Otherwise no and just blast your water field to heal them.
The best pets for the ranger are defenitly:
- Raven: high dps, blind, elite synchro
- JStalker: high dps, might
- Moa: fury, just to buff at easy content
- BBear: cleanse, situational, like 0 dps howeva (DO NOT STAY ON THIS ONE -.-)
- Cave Spider: ranged highest dps, weakness, vulnerability
- Drake: either swamp or river one, both have a great aoe burst
You forgot Jaguar and Ice Drake in that list of best pets.
And if you’re going to list all the utility pets, don’t forget fern hound and its AoE heal.
Single target is the only DPS that matters. Unless you’re in fractals, no one cares if you can do “40k+ dps” on trash when you run past most of it in this game anyways, or fight 2-4 targets at a time most of the time.
The whole point of my response was to call out your BS on saying engineers do as much damage as elementalists in single target. (ie. boss fights)
The only DpS that metters? Tell me one dungeon that has no aoe damage to be done. Even 1-4 targets are enought to deal the same damage. The engi deals definitly the same, even more damage on single target too, however he does it more passive than active, requires a good hitting team. Mightstacks are a part of it, but mainly the vulnerability makes the big+. Without an engineer vuln against bosses is stuck at 10-15 stacks. The engi will grant the team at least 10 stacks. 10% more damage for 5x at least 5k dps hitters = 2.5k passive damage without even attacking. Ye – the engi pretty much outdamages the ele, however 1 engis won’t outdamage 1 ele
… passive damage <3
!
I meant to say single target and cleave. So there are plenty of dungeon paths where AoE (4-5 targets) are not needed. Heres a list off the top of my head:
CM 123
TA F
SE 1,3
CoF 1
HotW 1,2,3
CoE 123
Arah 123(4 too prolly)
(I’m not including whites since those die instantly, only elites and above)
4-5 target AoE is great in fractals.
Just because the class has low damage, doesn’t mean its bad. Never in my post have I implied or said that. You guys don’t need to tell all about their utility or why they’re worth bringing. Every class can do competitive DPS in a organized zerker group, but there is a pretty big imbalance from the low end of the spectrum to the top end.
Ranger
+ 2 unique damage buffs
+ tons of utility
+ 16.5k-17.5k health with meta builds
- Pet can feel like a handicap at times
- Lack of control when using sword
Thief
+ Really high DPS
+ Perma blinds
+ Stealth
- Squishy with 10.8k health
- Lack of group boons/buffs
The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff.
There are very few classes that can compete dmg-wise with eles, engineer is not one of them. Engineer is bottom tier in terms of dps, but makes up for it with their vulnerability stacking and group support.
Seems like you quitted the engi too early, played him wrong or simply quote other nobrainers…
It definitly depends on the situation. If there is just one target, the engy just can grant the vulnerability stacks without overwhelming damage. However he does not really suffer in terms of damage if there are many targets, unlike almost any other class. Noone has a 40k+ DpS against 5+ enemies, except the engi and ele. Deal with it.
Single target is the only DPS that matters. Unless you’re in fractals, no one cares if you can do “40k+ dps” on trash when you run past most of it in this game anyways, or fight 2-4 targets at a time most of the time.
The whole point of my response was to call out your BS on saying engineers do as much damage as elementalists in single target. (ie. boss fights)
The engi is extremly underrated. I bet he deals the same damage or slightly less damage as the ele or warrior, however combined with much more other stuff.
There are very few classes that can compete dmg-wise with eles, engineer is not one of them. Engineer is bottom tier in terms of dps, but makes up for it with their vulnerability stacking and group support.
1. Forget bows as a ranger, except for a few special occasions.
2. Forget doing damage from range with any class, except for a few special occasions.
Yeah, this is pretty much the case in GW2. You should never want to range unfortunately. Look into Ele and Engineer if you want a class with viable (good) ranged builds (that are still played in melee range)
