Guild Wars 2

Control Core.1079:

I’m going to disregard the molten dungeon, I was lucky to get through that one given all the bugs.

….And? Still doesn’t change the fact that you have a specific skin that you can earn through it. (Also, a quick view of the F & F forums and I don’t see a single thread discussing a bug with the molten facility. “All the bugs?” You lie.)

Control Core.1079:

The gold farming comment is precisely what I mean by lazy.

Why? Just because you don’t like it?

There’s rewards you can earn just through doing content (SAB skins, fused gauntlet) while there are rewards which you can earn through farming or luck (Molten mini/tonic, recipes, etc.) and then there are stuff in the Gem Store (Tunneling Device, Fused Skins.)

They do provide you with stuff outside the Gem Store. They do have exclusive rewards for playing the game, while still making gem purchases appealing to keep their business afloat. They try to keep everyone happy. What’s wrong with that?

The new Molten facility has rewards. The mini, the tonic, and the jetpack. The fused gauntlet can only be obtained through playing the Living Story stuff.

And before that, the SAB added a slew of weapon skins only obtainable through SAB, not the Gem store.

They do have rewards for in-game content. You just haven’t noticed it or choose to ignore it.

PS: You can play the game, earn gold, and purchase Gem Store items also, if you don’t want to spend your cash.

marnick.4305:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work

The one that comes closest to grinding a legendary is Project Management, and even that one strongly implies a professional project. Almost all others imply monetary compensation.

People don’t define grinding as “work”, they compare it to “work” which is almost always a negative comparison. The implication being that real work comes with a salary, while grinding doesn’t. Almost never is work in a videogame considered positive.

So whether or not we agree on the precise semantics, we probably agree that “work” in the context of videogames, is a very bad word. When a videogame feels like work, the game has to change (or the salary, but good luck making that happen).

Again, you hold to this narrow view that compensation has to be monetary. Some people enjoy working towards a long-term goal. And some people feel that the in-game rewards are adequate compensation for the amount of time they spent, even if it’s not monetary. Different people, different values. (In fact, you can search the wiki page of “employment.” Not a single mention of money or cash. None.)

Vol’s original post you commented on used the word “work” colloquially, by the way (He literally put in the word “play” next to it. It’s pretty clear what he means when he used that word). But again, I repeat. Some people do enjoy working (playing an excessive amount of time?) towards in-game rewards. You have to recognize they exist.

marnick.4305:

While I do love my job, the word “work” implies compensation with cold hard cash. Unless I get paid for playing GW2, it can’t be work. It is a contradiction to consider anything work unless you’re paid for doing it with real money.

That’s just your personal definition though. Some people consider grinding “work.” In the end, different people have different definitions.

marnick.4305:

And to take that futher … I do sprint distance triathlons about 2 or 3 times a year. It is a pretty hardcore run and most people strongly respect me for it. A single fotm10 run takes longer than a sprint distance triathlon. Some runs even take longer than olympic distance triathlons. Why can’t I expect a guaranteed ascended ring for doing something that takes more time than a triathlon? Food for thought.

You get 1/10th of a guaranteed ring, BTW.

You’re using your own personal values and making comparisons. That’s fine, but they don’t apply to everyone. I take 30 mins to run a 10k. I find the mere fact that I completed it very rewarding, as rewarding as my almost-to-be Legendary I’ve spent almost 1500 hours working on. And I trained a long time for the run. And grinded dungeons and fractals and such for the Legendary. I enjoyed every step of it, and some people would define it as “work.” But hey, I had fun!

Again, everyone has different definitions of “work” and “fun.” You have to recognize that your definition isn’t necessarily held by other people.

munkiman.3068:

Yes, please continue to make work and play interchangeable

marnick.4305:

At no point should the word “work” be used on the board of a videogame, or any game at all for that matter. It should be censored, just like kitten, kitten, kitten and kitten.

Study, practice, theorize, train … these are all valid words when it comes to games. Work isn’t one of them.

I’m surprised at these strong negative reactions to the word “Work.” Some of us enjoy our work, both in real life and in the game. I love my current job to death. I also loved my journey towards my Legendary. While you guys may not like what you personally define as “work,” in game, there are plenty of others who do, and are happier because of it. (And trust me, there are also many people who think practice/study/training is work. Just ask those disgruntled high school students!)

For a game to appeal to a wide audience, Anet has to keep both sides happy. On one end, hardcore players have something to work for (Legendaries) while non-hardcore people don’t get disadvantaged at all by other’s time spent (Legendary/Exotic same stats.). It’s a wonderful compromise, I think.

Again, while it’s understandable to get upset at what you guys define as “work,” please do recognize there’s a lot of people who do enjoy it.

laokoko.7403:

Ecto price was like 35 silver a while ago? A simple desicison to make rare drop in world chest and guild event make it flunk to 20 silver. Amazing eih?

Anet doesn’t even need to make a concrete change. The announcement that boss chests are per account instead per character jumped ecto prices from 25 to 30s for a while. The way the player base reacts is pretty cool.

Leablo.2651:

Content is calculated by play time, and divided by a subjective factor of repetition (grind).

Why are somehow denigrating content if you think it’s a “Grind?” What? That makes no sense?

Content is content. Whether you take 30 minutes to do it once or 30 hours to grind its reward has no bearing on its length.

Leablo.2651:

On release – varied maps with highly customized terrain and unique quests, all content designed specific to that zone

Leablo.2651:

On release – lazily designed heart quests copy/pasted throughout each map, each map copy/pasted rectangle with flat, wide open terrain, change the level of mobs and that is what passes for “more complete” content in GW2

Your bias clearly shows through. GW2’s terrain is highly unique depending on which zone it is (Are you saying Frostgorge is somehow copy/pasted from Caledon?). GW1’s maps were flat-er, considering we had no jumping. Also, GW1 had its fair share of “collect X collectible item” “Kill X creatures” quests.

Leablo.2651:

Introduction of FoW quests (May) – permanent
New FoW and various world quests (June) – permanent
Titan quests (September) – permanent

Guild Wars 2 added over 30 new events. New jumping puzzles and new mini-dungeons have been added. Are we going to ignore them? Add in Fractals, and GW2 has added FAR more permanent content.

Leablo.2651:

To summarize: GW1 had 5 major content additions, 4 of which represent permanent expansion of the game. GW2 had 6 major content additions, 1 of which permanently expanded the game. This is what I mean by illusory content – most of it is in your head, because it’s certainly not in the game.

What, because it’s seasonal it’s less significant? Content is content. It’s something to do, and I’ve spent countless hours of fun with seasonal content. Just because you don’t agree with temporary content, it doesn’t change the fact that GW2 has introduced us a TON more stuff to do than GW1.

“In my head?” I’ve spent over 10 hours with the Halloween stuff (4 hours for the JP itself). Maybe 20~30 hours in Wintersday (most of it in the Snowball fight.) Hundreds of hours in Fractals. A solid 20-30 hours on SAB. And I don’t know how much time I’ve spent doing the other random jumping puzzles/mini dungeons.

I spent 3 hours on Sorrow’s Furnace in my first run, and never repeated it again. Maybe 10 hours doing all the Titan quests. Maybe 5 hours to clear everything in FoW? I didn’t repeat it either because I had absolutely no reason to grind it.

It’s not in my head. I’ve literally spent a TON more time on the new content GW2 has given us than GW1.

GW1 eventually evolved into a great game. There’s also many great reasons to like GW1 over GW2. The amount of content however? There’s absolutely no contest. GW2 has given us far more to do than GW1.

Solefald.8751:

You know what? I want them to rather act then reply…But they do nothing…but looks like this is totaly acceptable for this community, everytime a person writes a negative post he gots flamed cos how dare we attack the almighty programmers…I think 7 month would be more then enough to fix a small thing like this….But you should enlighten me what can be so complicated in fixing letters on different UI sizes?

Software, especially things as complicated as this, will never be perfect. And dev hours a limited and precious resource. It’s impossible for them to fix and make everything perfect. That is why they prioritize bugs. I imagine this is pretty low on their list.

In vacuum, this shouldn’t take 7 months to fix. But there’s a ton of other things going on with the game that are far more important to fix than this.

That’s software develpement for you. You can flame the programmers all you want, but I’m going to tell you you have unrealistic expectations.

Solefald.8751:

This is the perfect example of how easily they just puke us the words, “we’ll investigate it” “that’s definetly something we are talking about” “we have it on our list”(wish I could see that list…) and etc easily said sentences that has no depth behind…

FIX the game, bugs like the one mentioned above 7 MONTHS AGO!!!! The same goes for right click targeting, character animation freezing and so on….

What do you want them to say?

Lie outright and say they are fixing it ASAP?
Not even communicate about it at all to the community?

I’m sure they have it on the list, but it’s probably very low priority for them right now. Or maybe it’s incredibly complicated to fix. Who knows. That’s software development for you.

Substance E.4852:

Immune to damage isn’t the same thing as invulnerable.

Yes, the exact point I’m making. Not sure if it’s important to note or not.

1. Do you like unique rewards for unique content.
2. Do you like to be rewarded on a non-RNG basis.

If the answer to the 2 questions is yes, then different currencies are needed.

Blues and Greens are a pretty good gold faucet, I imagine. You need those too, in an MMO.

I also imagine they are a very tiny part of the global economy. The economy is worthless because of this? Please…

RNG isn’t bad. Making them account-bound is.

If they are account bound, then RNG is the only method to get them (Fused skins).

However, if you allow them to be sold on the TP, then players have an alternative method of getting this skin, while still maintaining its rarity (halloween skins).

The most important thing is though, you have to speak with your wallet. That is the best way to get the message across.

Vargs.6234:

Nobody is going to excitedly come back to this game because there’s a refugee camp in southsun, or because the LA lion statue was deleted for awhile but is back now.

But people will come back because SAB has returned from its slumber, or when Molten Facility has been discovered and will be only available for a limited time. Or when the Living Story no doubt shifts its focus to the Consortium and its activities in South Sun.

Whether you like it or not, the world is changing. Again, slowly but surely.

Vargs.6234:

The problem is that the world hasn’t changed.

But the world has changed.

LA’s Lion statue was destroyed and slowly rebuilt. Refugees had set up camps in LA. The Consortium has built a refugee camp in Southsun.

It definitely is changing. Slowly but surely.

Leablo.2651:

Let’s make sure we are using the same “ton”. What we’ve seen thus far in terms of expansion content is Fractals, maybe guild missions if you are in to that, holiday festivals, and a few other talking points. I would note that what we’ve seen in terms of free updates is on par with the rate of free additions that we saw in Prophecies (Sorrow’s Furnace, Titan quests, etc) or for that matter any active MMO. This is not what I’d call “tons” of new content.

What other non-sub MMO comes out with this much free content?

We’ve had, so far

Halloween (And with it a variety of new jumping puzzles, mini dungeons, and events. Costume brawl too!)
Wintersday (And its mini games)
Lost Shores/Southsun
2 new PvP maps
Fractals
Guild Missions
SAB
Flame & Frost

Even GW1 pales in comparison to what we got. In Prophecies within the first 7 months, I believe we got…

Halloween
Wintersday
Titan Quest
Sorrow’s Furnace

And Wintersday/Halloween/SF is far smaller in scale compared to GW2’s Wintersday/Halloween/Fractal updates. (GW1’s first Wintersday was a few quests going through maps that already existed. GW2’s Wintersday was a jumping puzzle, a dungeon, and 2 minigames. Completely new areas.)

Feel free to add more to the list, but based on my memory GW2 has offered far more content updates than GW1 has (not to mention being far more complete on release).

Leablo.2651:

Or… they could make paid expansions with tons of new content, which they aren’t doing now only because they’re earning so much money from the gem store for doing practically nothing. Money ruins art, every time.

They aren’t coming out with tons of new content?

They have been pushing out tons of new additions to this game since launch, all for free, if you haven’t noticed.

I’m not sure if this is important to note or not, but Signet of Stone and Protect me both make the Ranger take 0 damage, as opposed to being invulnerable.

This means communing in PvP can still be interrupted. Also, it won’t stop CCs from stopping you from stomping.

Yay, sexist jokes. They are so clever and funny.

atheria.2837:

I have yet to find the build that you are using Ursan – or videos of your conquests – the rest of us have serious concerns about the state of the “powerful” Ranger who should be lord of the wilderness but NEVER IS with a pet that has ONE THIRD the power it did BEFORE it was “TAMED”.

We do need a re-tooling – or a re-imagining of what a FANTASY Ranger is supposed to be able to do alone in the wilderness against ANY foe.

It’s kinda amusing to see you try to call me out. You doubt the success I’m having with my Ranger?

Look me up on the PvP leaderboards. Ranked 289, 42-25 record. Most of my games (95%) is with my Ranger (Maiden Jeanne).

Ranger in sPvP is fine. Very strong. Dungeons? Sure, we have some problems. Zerg WvW? Sure, our pets die fast. But Rangers are very powerful in 1v1 situations in WvW, solo situations in PvE, and sPvP.

Rangers are far from unplayable. We have problems? Sure. Unplayable? This is a laughable notion.

Calae.1738:

In a virtual world; with a click of a button you can create an unlimited supply of anything even if the population is zero.

Can’t do that in the real world.

That’s really a moot point. Players who play the game can’t do it. Anet, while they can do it, will never do it.

Goloith.6349:

The other big thing that Eve Online does is it has an easily convertible exchange rate between all commodities (ore, ship parts, salvage, Isk=$$$). GW2 lacks this and everytime you create a new currency you are taking the exact opposite direction. What GW2 needs to do is make everything liquid like Eve Online’s “Isk”. This would require crafting materials, Badges, Karma, and gems to be all converted into whatever currency a player wants. Whenever you try and dictate player behavior it has negative impacts just like in real life economies. Ever wonder why the U.S. economy has has been the most prosperous these last 200+ years? Your answer is market freedom.

The problem is, if you have many different currencies and a generous exchange rate, why have different currencies at all?

From a game design perspective, the reason why you have these exclusive currencies is to encourage players to play through unique content, and keep rewards unique.

If everything can be bought with gold (legendary)

1. You can do anything. More flexilibilty to the playerbase. (PRO)
2. Most efficient options become prioritized (CON)
3. A certain reward won’t imply mastery of specific content (CON?)

Whereas with exclusive currencies. (Dungeon armor)

1. You are restricted in content you have to do to earn rewards (CON)
2. Reward will imply mastery of specific content (PRO?)

There’s pros and cons to both sides of the argument. I tend to believe in option 2. (Unique dungeon armor, Legendaries should be account bound, etc.)

I believe that was me. Screenshot attached.

Aridia.3042:

If placement is more interesting for the game, then Anet got it backwards. Mobility should’ve came standard with the spirits and traiting it should let you make it stop and guard instead.

That’s a pretty interesting thought. But if Spirits are mobile,

1. you can’t put them out of harm’s way then return to the action
2. You can make them invulnerable…but they’ll just be visual decorations at that point. Might as well replace them with an aura.

The reason why I bring this up is I played a Ritualist in GW1. I’d frequently put spirits out of harm’s way, but close enough so that it still affected me and my heroes. It worked out great for me, because in GW1 a summoned spirit summons right on top of me, so I could put them around corners and such without worrying it sliding out.

In the end, IMO I think Spirits with HP is fine. GW1 is a great blueprint, I think. Which is why I think we should go back to how it handled spirits (summon on top of the summoner, please.)

Shadowlancer.7102:

Do you understand now or would you like to try again?

Your statements are stupid because your claims are directly contradicted with data and your conclusions are built upon huge assumptions.

Shadowlancer.7102:

he economy says thats too expensive, so to by pass this, the legendary seller, raises the value of the Legendary higher, making the dye seem alot reasonable or cheaper to ask for that price.

Shadowlancer.7102:

However because the Legendaries are really not being sold, Legendary sellers can keep raising its own value to gain a profit on other goods without selling the Legendary at all.

Shadowlancer.7102:

As long as the item doesn’t sell, the seller can freely increase the price of the Legendary, with no strings attached

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/30689

Eternity has seen an overall DECREASE in price since the beginning of January. This phenomenon of “sellers keep raising the prices of the Legendary” DOES NOT EXIST.

You also make a huge (and really stupid) assumption.

Shadowlancer.7102:

The economy says thats too expensive, so to by pass this, the legendary seller, raises the value of the Legendary higher, making the dye seem alot reasonable or cheaper to ask for that price.

You are assuming that the sell listing prices of Eternity DIRECTLY AFFECTS prices of all other commodities. This is absolute nonsense, and a quick glance of spidy shows this to be not true. Eternity prices have been dropping since the beginning of April, while many components for Legendary crafting have seen an increase in prices.

Armored Scales:
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/24289

Vicious Fangs:
http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/24357

Just a few examples.

What about dyes, the example you used?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/20356

Oh look, it INCREASED despite the DECREASE in Eternity price.

The price of Eternity is NOT the sole determining factor for the prices of these commodities. It is incredibly clear from Spidy.

Shadowlancer.7102:

Thank you for proving my point. As long as the Legendary doesn’t sell the higher the price it goes.

Yes, as long as the Legendary doesn’t sell, you won’t see any profit.

And your “point” (increasing prices) is obviously not happening according to Spidy.

JUN YANG.4328:

run the dungeon for what? fun?

Uh.

Yes?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/30689

Huh, look at that. No change in sell listing price since January.

I’m guessing my point flew over your head, but this method you’re proposing is INCREDIBLY UNPROFITABLE.

Your original statement I had a problem with:

Shadowlancer.7102:

Yes but here is the problem, you are saying “If the Legendary item” gets sold. As long as the item doesn’t sell, the seller can freely increase the price of the Legendary, with no strings attached, to create a false value to trick the economy to sell his other goods to make profit that way.

Sorry to say but that’s inflation by the abuse of “Market Speculation” being manipulated.

You’re saying a seller constantly re-lists the item higher and higher in order to earn higher profits?

1. You’re losing 5% of the value each time you re-list.
2. Every time you re-list for a high price, you’re losing potential customers.

Look at the spidy chart. It’s safe to say that no Eternity sell listing has actually sold since January. Each time you increase your price, you increase your risk of not selling that item. If someone were to do what you are proposing, he’d be hemorrhaging money. Which is why your method is stupid and won’t work, and why no one does it.

Aridia.3042:

Saying you don’t want invulnerable spirits because it makes them like banners is like saying I don’t want SOS to give me invulnerability because i don’t want another Endure Pain.

Banners burn people? Blind? Chill? I don’t think so. It’s not a valid argument.

I probably didn’t word it the best way, but you misunderstand me. I personally don’t want that it to be invulnerable like Banners are, because I don’t want them to be invulnerable, not because I think they’ll be similar to Banners (I do hope you see the distinction). I want them to have HP, so I actually have to think about carefully placing them. It’s more interesting to me.

That’s me personally though. And it’ll empower me to do this more efficiently if I can more precisely place my spirits.

Where is this magical world where I’m able to find customers for luxury goods no matter how high I price my goods?

Aridia.3042:

Or you could ask for what’s logical and make them invulnerable so they can consolidate the crap traits like they did with the Warrior’s….

I disagree with that. I’m fine with Spirits being killable. I don’t want banners named Spirits.

That said however, I would sure appreciate it if these changes go through, because it’ll empower the player in being active in protecting these spirits.

Shadowlancer.7102:

@ kokocabana.8153

Yes but here is the problem, you are saying “If the Legendary item” gets sold. As long as the item doesn’t sell, the seller can freely increase the price of the Legendary, with no strings attached, to create a false value to trick the economy to sell his other goods to make profit that way.

Sorry to say but that’s inflation by the abuse of “Market Speculation” being manipulated.

Yes. The seller loses the listing fee each time he increases the price, and as he increases the price, he’s losing more and more potential customers.

The only abuse going on here is to this “seller’s” wallet.

I find your definition of “nothing” very amusing.

Seyyah.6135:

basically this patch translates for me as… “ok we are clearly telling you that you MUST play beastmaster… no you wont get rid of the silly pet… no we wont improve it to a reasonable state for non beastmasters… we just named the class ranger for **** and giggles…”

all that remains now i am waiting for those pro-forum-troll-rangers come here and educate me…

There is no need for any education. Your vision of a Ranger clearly does not agree with the Dev’s vision of a Ranger (and they’ve stated many times that they will not get rid of the pet). Clearly, this is a difference that can’t be reconciled. Cut your losses and stop playing this class.

Funny story. I was sPvPing yesterday. I was 1v2ing 2 mesmers. They burst me down pretty quickly. One mesmer leaves while the other remains to finish me off.

My dog KD’s him. Then I stop him with 2. Then I swap pet and my 2nd dog KD’s him. And suddenly, he’s down, and I’m 1-ing him to death while my dog revived me.

Ranger downed state is hilarious. I love it so much.

This is a pretty big nerf to SnR. The whole point of combat rezzes is that they can be done “safely.” When using SnR, the pet is anything but safe. Before, monsters de-aggroed on defeated players and so made this very safe. Not anymore though. It’s not a guaranteed rez.

However, I do remember people saying that pets can SnR through death. I never got around to testing it, but if that is true, I won’t mind this nerf too much.

Hey all,

So the recent spirit buff is nice and all, but can we please have MORE PRECISE SPIRIT PLACEMENT?

What I mean is that currently when summoned, Spirits “slide” a bit in a seemingly random (not sure if completely random or if there’s a pattern) direction before coming to rest.

This is annoying because damage mitigation through positioning is a hallmark of GW2’s combat system. HP and defense mean little when a player can use smart positioning to avoid damage in the first place.

The same logic apply to spirits. Yes, you can buff their HP, but the best way to protect a Spirit is placing it out of harm’s way. And to do that, you need precise control of where your Spirits are being placed.

To give an example, in Grawl Fractal, I use my Elite Spirit whenever an ally dies in the boss’s AoE. I try to summon my Elite Spirit at the edge of the AoE so that it doesn’t die to the AoE itself, but half the time it slides directly into the AoE, dying instantly (I’m not traited for Spirits).

If, say, I could precisely place my Spirits, this will never happen.

Two proposed solutions:

1. Make them target-able, just like Warrior Banners.
2. Make Spirits stay right on top of you when summoned, instead of sliding in a random direction.

Behellagh.1468:

Considering the sturm und drang from the last chest RNG fiasco, do you thing the playerbase learned their lesson?

I will say no seeing how gems have spiked to 4g for a brief period and is not 3.5g per 100.

Lets be fair here. You can’t attribute the exchange increase solely to RNG as there’s plenty of other items to purchase and most likely interests the player base.

munkiman.3068:

You’re saying it’s prestige holds value

No,. I’m directly refuting your previous statement.

munkiman.3068:

There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward

There are personal rewards in society today that are “gated” by unique activities.

munkiman.3068:

Then you misunderstood. Rewards gated behind certain activities that hold little to no economic value.

I don’t understand. Why not?

Going back to Behellagh’s Sandwich example. A customer loyalty program that rewards sandwiches HAS monetary value. So what if you can buy a sandwich with cash? It’s the opportunity cost of not having to spend that cash in the first place.

Same thing with Arah. Getting a full dungeon set removes the need to buy exotic to equip your character. That is value. Heck with dungeon sets you can actually convert them into ectos, which is value.

munkiman.3068:

Prestige value is also questionable, I’d certainly place far more prestigious value on a gold medal over Arah armor, but that’s nether here nor there.

Seriously? Of course an Olympic Gold Medal carries far more prestige than an Arah armor. The concept (Of rewards only attained through an unique activity) is what’s important, and why I used those two as an analogy.

EDIT: Also, I just want clarification on your core argument. My core point is directed towards your statement, that

There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward

Which is completely untrue. There are many rewards that are “gated” by unique activities in society today. I’m just curious as how the argument of whether these rewards have “value” or not have anything to do with this core argument.

munkiman.3068:

Again, not the same. An Olympic gold medal has value, a monetary value. An Arah set has only a look, nothing more. The earning potential alone in real world medals and awards are far more withstanding than “earning” an armor set in a video game. Simply comparing the two in economic terms makes a rather large distinction. This not to mention how disposable getting an Arah set actually is.

There’s a certain prestige associated with Arah sets. Because it’s only attained through a certain unique activity. It can’t be purchased with gold.

There’s a certain prestige with winning an Olympic Gold Medal. It’s only attained through a certain unique activity. The achievement of winning an Olympics can’t be purchased with gold.

I believe the original topic was “rewards which are gated behind certain unique activities do not exists in the real world.” Well, that exists in the real world too.

EDIT: By the way, an Arah set does have a monetary value since you can salvage them for ectos and sell said ectos.

munkiman.3068:

I actually don’t find value in running a dungeon I don’t particularly enjoy for armor that i do like, i actually call that work and i already work enough. Why can’t i just play the game and buy what i like? I can in the real world, eh? I would hardly call getting dungeon tokens earnings or personal rewards of much economic value, you’re talking about something vastly different. That’s actually what the discussion is about, so i was trying to stay on point. I think you entirely missed the binding issue and why these items have very limited in-game monetary value.

Because we are dealing with prestige, and its monetary value. Some forms of prestige simply cannot be bought with money. (Full Arah set, Olympic Gold Medal). And some can.

Both the virtual world and the real world have many examples of this.

The Eternal Grace.3157:

Ursan.7846:

The Eternal Grace.3157:

What I mean by “dying” simply this: Activity is decreasing. I don’t think really anyone can argue with that.

When your evidence of “decreasing activity” is completely anecdotal…

Yes, yes you can. And the entire discussion will be pointless.

It isn’t anecdotal at all when I have yet to hear someone in a guild that has less than 475 active members saying anything different, at least from my server, anyway.

Do you know what anecdotal evidence is?

The Eternal Grace.3157:

What I mean by “dying” simply this: Activity is decreasing. I don’t think really anyone can argue with that.

When your evidence of “decreasing activity” is completely anecdotal…

Yes, yes you can. And the entire discussion will be pointless.

It’s okay to be critical of the game.

But why does so many people feel it’s necessary to throw in the “Game is obviously dying” statement? To lend some semblance of credibility to your criticism? (Game is dying → my opinions that certain things are broken obviously are correct.)

Air out your criticism by itself. If it’s well written and well thought-out, it will stand by its own merits, without you having to resort to this “Game is dying” hoolaboo.

FourthVariety.5463:

Would you take a job that did not earn you any money? You would have everything you wanted for as long as you took the job, but lose it all when you quit. Think about why you chose yes or no.

Over at the gaming site, would you play a game for a reward only intrinsic to the process of playing. The reward would fizzle the second you play, even if you just took a break to sleep. Which type of game would you expect to be that way and do you play such games?

Now compare your attitude to the job offer I described with loot mechanics in MMOs.

Do you mind elucidating your analogy? It sounds interesting, but I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. What is your core argument, and how does your analogy tie into your argument?

munkiman.3068:

Absolutely untrue, with maybe a very few minor exceptions, everything has a price and at some point i could possible buy an Olympic gold metal or an Oscar with enough cash. There’s one glaring difference however “binding” an item. A bound item will never be sell-able for anything worth much (i.e. vender value). If we use that as a measure of worth than the economy in this game is absolutely horrible.

You’re fixiated on the physical value of the Medals. Sure, you can buy a Olympic Gold Medal with money. I’m sure it’ll have value to you, but it doesn’t make you an Olympic medalist. The physical value of the metal is completely independent of the value of WINNING which is an accomplishment that you cannot buy with money. Michael Phelps can sell his Gold Medal, but he doesn’t need that piece of metal to earn his rightful place in history as one of the greatest swimmers ever.

EDIT: Gold MedalS. Forgive me, Phelps.

munkiman.3068:

@Behellagh You’re missing one very important difference. None of those currencies have any value at all. In your sandwich example, the personal reward isn’t particularly special since i can buy that same sandwich for cash. There’s nothing in society that would even remotely “gate” a completely unique personal reward behind fake money. But, yet Anet does this with a very large amount of things in comparison. What’s the value of Ascended gear? Or dungeon gear? Or fused weapon claim tickets? The list goes on and on, yet somehow it makes sense to someone that these extremely gated items make people happy.

In the real world, you have awards and medals that you cannot buy, but can only be earned through personal accomplishments. You have these “Thank you for 30 years of service” plaques. Come on now, there’s plenty of things in society today that you can’t buy with money.

Evan Lesh.3295:

pullnointer.1476:

preset cameras? that didn’t look too well :< why can’t I just click anywhere on the map?

edit: and maybe move around with WASD and pan the camera with the mouse..

We discussed having free-cam, but decided on not including it for this patch because of performance and positioning issues (We don’t want people flying outside of maps) I won’t say it will never be included though

Is it possible to just put in a “character” who’s completely invisible? And thus have no worries about rendering or anything.

Sebrent.3625:

I would like to say that the “RNG” on pets is not really RNG. They have a set script that they follow.

When skill A is off cooldown, they use it.
When skill B is off cooldown, they use it.
When you press F2, they use Skill C.
Otherwise, they auto-attack with skill D.

It just feels random because we don’t have control over it and our brains, especially in the middle of combat, make for very poor timers for tracking those pet cooldowns.

Go to an empty sPvP arena with a 100% tank friend and let your dog attack him/her constantly. Track the time between the knockdown and cripple.

Honestly, the problem isn’t whether you can control it or not control, but because you have no idea what the CD situation is unless you count in your mind internally.

My dogs, once I swap to them, will always do its KD first if the KD is not on CD. However, this will not happen if the KD is on CD.

Which is fine. I keep track of my Dog’s KDs, because it’s an incredibly important skill.

But it adds an extra level of….nuisance when playing my Ranger. I have to spend that much more effort to be absolutely efficient as compared to other classes.

I don’t mind too much, but a system like GW1’s hero skill tab would be incredibly useful. To give skilled players more control, but still allow for not-so-dextrous players the option to automate everything.

I’m actually really interested in John Smith’s take on this article, actually.

He really whiffs on his analysis of crafting. I believe Syeria stated pretty eloquently in another thread, but the barrier of entry into the crafting disciplines are VERY LOW. Any mid-level recipes that “make” money, once it becomes common knowledge, is quickly going to lose its profitability. Most mid-level recipes hemmorage money, and yet the market still continues to craft them in huge numbers, because the playerbase as a whole has determined that the exp obtained from crafting is worth the gold lost for it. I think this is a very important point that most people seem to miss.

But with relation to, in his own words, “the pre-end game economy,” what he’s saying is true. The pre-end game economy is pretty out of whack. This isn’t a fault of the economy: It’s a direct result of the leveling being so fast, that the majority of players simply does not bother with pre-80 blues and greens.

That being all say, while the author of the article does have good point, he really misses hard the most because the pre-end game economy in this game is so insignificant in size. The GW2 TP is a vast vast machine, and how many percentage of the items being traded are blues/greens/whites with rock bottom value? The vast majority of items traded, such as crafting materials, rares, and exotics, sigils/runes, etc. all have value and are traded in vast quantities.

So while I can’t disagree with his analysis, I think he really misses.