Guild Wars 2

Neural.1824:

timmyf.1490:

Register for an account on Reddit. Post there. Problem solved.

Would be nice if this was an accurate statement, but the same trolls and white knights run reddit like their personal playground. Anything they don’t like gets downvoted into oblivion before it has a chance to be seen.

Or some people really like the game and think that negative comments for the sake of being negative (as the OP’s thread was) is not worth their time and energy.

People who claim the game is dead or dying aren’t just exaggerating. They’re lying.

But even it were true, it’s not helpful. And anything born of that, do this or the game will die, do that or the game will die…again not helpful.

For one thing, I don’t trust a random forumite more than Anet. I think they know how the game is doing more than most posters.

Legitimate issues get upvoted on Reddit. Doom and gloom posts, rightfully, get downvoted.

Anyone who downvotes a post like the OP made on Reddit is less of a troll than the person posting that opinion.

And it’s entirely possible that people who are posting that opinion are trolling themselves.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

The Internet isn’t old.

The internet is at least 50 years old. It is kitten well old at this point.

MMOs are 40 years old, btw.

Computers are also a 50 year business at this point. It’s not “new” anymore when you’ve hit half a century of existence.

Right it’s right up there with coal mining and iron ore. They’re still new industries. And there are new industries associated with them every day. It’s all semantics and relative anyway, but those MMOs that are 40 years old have absolutely nothing to do with the business of MMOs today. It’s not the same product or the same business.

Which is my point. If anyone bothered to actually read what I was replying to, instead of taking it out of context, they’d see I’m saying that the field is still evolving and stuff that worked ten years ago might not be what works today. Stuff that worked five years ago.

Someone had replied to me when I said that certain things that used to work won’t anymore.

If you want to disagree with the substance of what I said, feel free.

If you want to pick on the world old, I won’t reply again. Pointless point remains pointless.

Get map completion on a character with all map markers turned off.

Beldin.5498:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I’m amused at the amount of negativity over something they haven’t even said yet. And some of our peers wonder why the developers tend not to say anything at all. . . .

But they have said something .. without saying anything concrete they said things
that sound like an expansion .. or at least that we will get quite a lot of more landmass.

However they did that before already .. and in the end we got the wardrobe and mega servers.

Not that the wardrobe was bad .. but it was not such a “awesome, fantastic change
of the world that noone ever expected”.

And don’t let us talk about collections, that are only a pure money-think while they
were really a fun part in EQ2 for example.

Actually what they said was what any company would say advertising to the public. Not us. I promise you they’re not running this event at PAX for people on the forum. They want to make announcements that will get new people to the game. The people here already know about it.

People who read stuff like that and try to take it as something huge are likely going to be disappointed because the target audience for that isn’t us in the first place.

How would you advertise the game/company to people who weren’t playing it at a con. Would you say, “we’re another MMO and we’re going to do what everyone else is doing. Buy our game?”

Because I’m guessing you’d list your panel pretty much like they did.

And if forum people want to get into an uproar over it, well, that’s pretty much not Anet’s fault.

What I see here in this thread is what I often see. A disconnect between the forum readers and people who do business as Anet.

Anet is a business and they’re going to a show. They pay to be at that show. They are spending money to go there. That means that they’re going to be doing what they can, as any business would, to drum up business. They are going to reach an audience at that show that isn’t people on their forums. They’re going to word whatever they want, not as hype for us, but as advertising for them.

I’d love to know what any of you would do in a similar situation.

The advertising machine has to run. World of Warcraft runs theirs and they have the money to pay for commercials on TV. Anet doesn’t have that kind of income, so Anet does what it can to promote within it’s budget to promote. You go to a show like PAX and it’s an opportunity to tell people about your game. So you make it sound exciting.

Anyone who takes anything in a description of a panel at a con literally is someone who doesn’t have experience.

It’s the same thing with stuff they put in articles on their website. Those aren’t exclusively or even mostly for us. We have that info before it’s in the articles half the time, then complain that they’re not telling us anything new. We have that information so we don’t need those articles. They aren’t written exclusively for us. They’re written for people who might casually visit the website who’d want information.

People who spend their time on forums get all this information without going to the game’s site.

People say Anet is hyping their game, but they’re wrong. People are hyping themselves. Anet is doing business as a business. As any one of us would do if we owned a business.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Jessica Nuhfer.4162:

considering most of the original dev team and the team from gw1/the tezm which was presemt during launch has all left, you can imagine why guild wars sucks now

Eh what? GW2 sucks? Eh what? SooooOOooo The whole Dev team is around 3-4 people becouse what I remember (I am brobably wrong) is that one or two Devs that was present from the start has left, and you know what!? They left and made realy bad games in my opinion.

I guess I am lucky that GW2 isn’t a good game for you becouse for me GW2 is a good game for me as it is now. Sure it can always be better but in my opinion the dev teams are doing a good job listening to the community and updating this game.

Don’t let it get you down. There are plenty of people playing and enjoying the game. The fact that some people assume it’s bad because they personally don’t like it is part and parcel of forums everywhere.

Anyway, fan fiction isn’t invariably bad and some professional writers get their starts writing fan fiction. lol

I get some lag sometimes, but as I’m in Australia, I sort of expect that. It’s not usual for me in games. I don’t get more lag in Guild Wars 2 than other MMOs I’ve played.

Gray.9041:

timmyf.1490:

Noted. My point was simply that players who routinely ignore incentives are now complaining about incentives. They should do as they’ve always done: ignore the incentives and Play How They Want.

the thing is that now playing how they want gives fewer rewards than it did yesterday.

also, do they do what they’ve always done: play how they want, or do they do what they’ve always done: complete the daily. it used to be that these two weren’t mutually exclusive, and now they are.

it mostly comes down to something that used to work fine for a lot of people no longer works as well for a lot of them, and they’re gonna get angry about it. imagine if you had to start paying more for the same internet you get now?

I personally can deal with the changes – but it does feel like Anet is fixing things that ain’t broke, while a lot of more serious issues get ignored.

But it’s not true for everyone. That’s the other side. I get to play how I want more than I did before, because I used to get 10 achievement points a day. That meant I had to spend a lot more time to get those points.

Now I can play how I want for more time each day. It’s all about perspective.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

You get five character slots, not four. That’s one for each race. This this game tends to be more involved in story, that allows you to experience each race’s story.

Though you can safely skip the asura storyline and simply imagine Zojja repeatedly proclaiming “I’m the best!” over and over and treating you like her personal footstool when you’re not kissing her toes.

. . . if we didn’t need her expertise I swear I’d use her as bait for Primordius.

Were you rooting for Kudu too?

Ellixen.1572:

Still trying to get into the game. Just started re-installing it right now. My highest character is 43 and I’ve had the game since a couple months after launch.

Largely I have trouble with combat because I find it so boring which I know is weird because I come from WoW which is stand still and wait for cast time. But it’s been a huge hindrance to my enjoyment.

One of the biggest things that irks me about this game though is that I get 4 Character slots and have to pay what 10 bucks for each one after that? Are you kidding me? I understand they need money to keep content flowing and servers up but to pay full price for the game and not even be granted slots for all classes is just absurd to me.

Maybe the game isn’t for me but I’m gonna keep giving it a try until I think I got my money’s worth. I just think it’s sad that it feels like I have to give into a cash shop to get the full value out of it

You get five character slots, not four. That’s one for each race. This this game tends to be more involved in story, that allows you to experience each race’s story.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

The MMO genre is being constantly defined and redefined. If you think 10, or even 20 years is a long time for an industry that’s new to finish getting to where it’s going, there’s nothing more to say.

This is a relatively new industry that’s changing all the time and will continue to change. Those who can’t change with it will be, as always, left behind.

MMOs are almost as old as online gaming as we know it today, come to think of it. Ultima Online was played on dial-up modems, for crying out loud, and that wasn’t even the first game of the type.

. . . heck, computer gaming itself as we know it today can be considered a relatively new industry. Especially since it’s almost painful to try to get games more than twenty-five years old to run properly on modern systems. (It can be done, for most of them, but I still have problems getting the original Myst CD-rom to work sometimes.)

And it’s still not as new as console gaming as we know it . . .

Really it’s a surprise half the stuff we see these days doesn’t require day one patches . .. oh, wait . . .

The Internet isn’t old. I don’t know why people think a 20 year old business is old. Television is old. Radio is old. Computers is still a relatively new business, Internet is relatively new and MMOs are newer than both.

This industry hasn’t come close to settling or working out it’s kinks. In fact, as the computer industry changes, MMOs change. Active combat was one example. How many MMOs six years ago used active combat?

This industry is evolving quickly and will continue to evolve as people figure out what to do with it.

Look at all the industries in existence, make a chart of them and look at how many of them have been around longer than MMOs.

Ten years, Twenty years, those are measures of new industries.

New with regard to industry doesn’t usually mean something that happened last month.

Jessica Nuhfer.4162:

considering most of the original dev team and the team from gw1/the tezm which was presemt during launch has all left, you can imagine why guild wars sucks now

Most of the team that designed Guild Wars 1 left? You have proof of that? Because I’m almost 100% positive that’s not true.

slamfunction.7462:

Vayne.8563:

slamfunction.7462:

Vayne.8563:

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

snip

At any rate, no point to complain about it. They don’t pay attention anyhow, so the only thing we can do is sit by and watch our friends go play other things OR realize that it is what it is and make the best of it. Your choice.

I love this game. I going to keep playing it for as long as there are people here to game with. I don’t have to “like” ANet to do that.

When I read posts like this, I wonder if you live in the same universe I live in.

WoW is completely 100% irrrelevant to this argument. Time and place. It IS a ten year old MMO and the landscape has changed since it came out. It doesn’t matter if WoW has 60 millon subs. No one has been able to replicate it and there’s no saying WoW could do it if it came out in this environment at this time.

WoW’s success is partly due to their ability to fund advertising and when it was released. The logic that applies to it applies to no new or current game. Thus irrelevant to the situation.

Every game that tries to be like WoW doesn’t go all that far. Certainly not nearly as far as WoW. WoW succeed through inertia. That’s all.

The rest of the industry which is what we’re talking about is evolving. The stuff that made WOW popular in its day doesn’t work anymore for any other product but WoW.

Ditto, on your first sentence.

I’m retorting the comment,

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

Its not new. You’re wrong. You made an incorrect statement with this. MMOs HAVE been around for long enough now for newer developers to say what will and will not work now. Unfortunately, they tend to do a sloppy job at implmenting it.

When you log into GW2, you can TELL that the initial development on the game was done with ALOT of love, caring, and attention to detail. A team of people REALLY went all out to pour their heart and soul into this game. You can tell by the zones, the stories, the artworks, and those little hidden Easter eggs here and there.

Can you honestly tell me that that same level of love and commitment is in the game with all the new features and LS additions?

My point of view on the answer to that is no one can say 100% either way, and thus why we have these little debates. Again, the game is great. The company running it currently, not so much.

The MMO genre is new. There biggest most important MMO has been around 10 years. If you think 10 years is a long time in an industry that changes this fast, I don’t know what to tell you. Iron mining is not new. MMOs are new. MMOs at the level they are today are completely new, and they’re ever evolving.

10 years ago, no MMO in existence had active combat. Because servers couldn’t support active combat with 100 people on the screen. It’s why so many MMOs have global cooldowns. To minimize server calls.

When did the first MMOFPS come out. Not five years ago.

The MMO genre is being constantly defined and redefined. If you think 10, or even 20 years is a long time for an industry that’s new to finish getting to where it’s going, there’s nothing more to say.

This is a relatively new industry that’s changing all the time and will continue to change. Those who can’t change with it will be, as always, left behind.

I’m playing more, but that’s because I’m working for a legendary again, not because of anything about changes to the game.

I go in phases, but even on days when I play the least I’m playing for at least 4 hours. I’m also spending more time on line because the guild is growing and someone usually needs help with something.

Astral Projections.7320:

Vayne.8563:

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

Went to look again, the insignia quest itself which is what I mean and am remembering somewhat fondly here appears to be completely skippable. I picked up the quest but didn’t think to take screenshot of that, there’s four options (sub quests) and the game asked me to do two. All the options can be done of course.
I think the remaining options stay there with another NPC if not done right away but I only did this all maybe once and it was a while ago, I’m not sure how it worked.
In my screenshots, the second character (pictured first) never did get the insignia, the first one (pictured second) did.

As a bonus screenshot, one of those tablets that are there in Shing Jea Monastery. <3
I really like what GW does with the info in here.

Tutorials would be acceptable if they would be 100% optional and repeatable. Why force at possibly inconvenient time or restrict this useful information?

AFAIK the game won’t let you get to the next mission until you do that quest.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Choose_Your_Secondary_Profession_%28Factions_quest%29
Reward dialogue
Master Togo
“A fitting choice, young one. Congratulations. You now have the choice of returning to your Headmaster to earn your insignia for your primary profession, or you can take a further quest from me. Although it is your choice, I recommend that you speak with your Headmaster first and return to me once you have earned your insignia.”

I stand corrected.

Havoc.3865:

Olvendred.3027:

Havoc.3865:

The new daily system alienates new players. I’m trying to introduce my friends to this game, and how the hell are they going to complete events in level 30-45 areas to get the dailies, when they are playing their first character, who’s level 20?

If you want to make newbies quit because they ca’t get anything done, congratulations, they are quitting and I will be going inactive again because no one wants to play with me, thanks a lot arena net.

For the umpteenth time…. dailies are based on the highest level character on your account. If they only have a level 20, then they a) get fewer dailies, and b) get different dailies.

I have 2 accounts. Today my main account (many level 80s), got: Great Jungle Wurm, Mystic Forger, Orr Forager, and Sparkfly Fen Event Completer. My alt account (highest character is level 40) got: Great Jungle Wurm, Mystic Forger, Maguuma Forager, and Metrica Province Event Completer.

Be that as it may, they still have to run all over arena nets creation, to areas they have not explored to do events they never heard of. Their level or not it’s still a massive deterrent to actually doing the dailies, which makes them utterly fail at promoting daily play. Them being different actually makes it worse. Because now if I want to buy a character slot and make a lower level guy to play with them (which I have) I don’t get to do my dailies when I run with them because I have a level 80 character. awesome.

The people I play with just ignore them now, it’s not the incentive it used to be. And I had the misfortune of introducing them JUST before the massive changes to the system, so the old one worked well for them. Sorry I didn’t obsessively scan the patch notes for the change coming through, I just wanted to play and have fun.

PS: On a personal note, heaven forbid I want to play my lower level characters today, because unless I sign into my level 80 I am not getting kitten for the daily. Thanks a lot guys, I feel like I have so much more freedom now. Get the daily and monthly achievements playing whatever character you want? To hell with that! Grind your level capped guys a little more before you can go back to playing the guys you want to play. It’s frustrating.

I get the daily in 15 minutes and then play my low level character. It’s not like you can only play one.

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

Went to look again, the insignia quest itself which is what I mean and am remembering somewhat fondly here appears to be completely skippable. I picked up the quest but didn’t think to take screenshot of that, there’s four options (sub quests) and the game asked me to do two. All the options can be done of course.
I think the remaining options stay there with another NPC if not done right away but I only did this all maybe once and it was a while ago, I’m not sure how it worked.
In my screenshots, the second character (pictured first) never did get the insignia, the first one (pictured second) did.

As a bonus screenshot, one of those tablets that are there in Shing Jea Monastery. <3
I really like what GW does with the info in here.

Tutorials would be acceptable if they would be 100% optional and repeatable. Why force at possibly inconvenient time or restrict this useful information?

AFAIK the game won’t let you get to the next mission until you do that quest.

Traced.3495:

Vayne.8563:

Except that part of learning the game in Factions involved getting your insignia, which was also a form of tutorial which wasn’t at all optional.

Insignia itself was tiny enough to not be really unpleasant experience to me. I don’t remember how much of that was optional, I’m thinking there were five parts and maybe two were required.

…I’m also not sure if it was required at all. I have several characters who have reached the big city but I don’t remember doing this that much…
Looking at it now actually, the instructor asks me if my ritualist (who has beaten Factions) is ready to earn her ritualist insignia.

And I’m thinking the insignia part as an inspiration.

You had to do all of it to earn an insignia, it was a tutorial and everyone had to do it. The tutorial they give you in the beginning is very very basic. It doesn’t tell you how to use skills or builds. The insignia supplied that. But you could never skip it on any factions character.

slamfunction.7462:

Vayne.8563:

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

Duh…what? World Of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King had how many millions of players subbed at one time? Like 10-14 MILLION? And WoW is celebrating it’s 10 year anniversary. This is not to forget it’s roots in Everquest and UO.

MMOs are anything BUT “new”. Every developer in this genre KNOWS what MMO fans are after, but it comes down to how much any given company is going to sink into development time versus whatever they are making from their pricing model.

GW2 will survive long after they stop putting development time into it. Look at WAR. People played WAR, even though it was EXTREMELY flawed for years after it’s release and after Mythic shut the doors on it, people are still trying to support free servers of the game.

People who come here and complain don’t hate the game. They LOVE the game! But they really don’t like the company that manages it, because the company that manages it, acts and reacts like a group of random IT contractors. They know how to do things, but overlook the environment, or the community. Granted, vocal minority isn’t the group you listen to, but numbers is the indicator to it all and after you LOSE those numbers, THEN you start eyeballing the vocal minority for ideas on how to make things better.

At any rate, no point to complain about it. They don’t pay attention anyhow, so the only thing we can do is sit by and watch our friends go play other things OR realize that it is what it is and make the best of it. Your choice.

I love this game. I going to keep playing it for as long as there are people here to game with. I don’t have to “like” ANet to do that.

When I read posts like this, I wonder if you live in the same universe I live in.

WoW is completely 100% irrrelevant to this argument. Time and place. It IS a ten year old MMO and the landscape has changed since it came out. It doesn’t matter if WoW has 60 millon subs. No one has been able to replicate it and there’s no saying WoW could do it if it came out in this environment at this time.

WoW’s success is partly due to their ability to fund advertising and when it was released. The logic that applies to it applies to no new or current game. Thus irrelevant to the situation.

Every game that tries to be like WoW doesn’t go all that far. Certainly not nearly as far as WoW. WoW succeed through inertia. That’s all.

The rest of the industry which is what we’re talking about is evolving. The stuff that made WOW popular in its day doesn’t work anymore for any other product but WoW.

-when your skills stop working because you’ve inadvertently been spamming skills in your open chat box.

Lifestealer.4910:

Finally, someone understands that whether the person got his values worth is up to the player. Gaming hour vs time spent is an inaccurate representation of how much fun someone had at a game. An extreme example is if say i played a game for 1000 hours, 995 of those hours were spent brainlessly grinding to get to the point where i could enjoy the last 5 hours of playing either because of the carrot at the end of the content unlock or whatever. would that be money well spent?.. will I look back and be like WOW kitten that was one fine experience?.. no i won’t.

On the other hand if you spend 995 hours doing something you’re not having fun with, it’s your fault. There are tons of things in the world I don’t like.

I wouldn’t join a golf club because I don’t like golf. And I wouldn’t play golf.

There are many games I’ve purchased, played for a few hours and walked away from. I don’t go on the warpath over it.

I go buy another game and start having fun again.

I think the problem here is different types of people. There are people who really want no constraints at all. There are people who feel more comfortable with some guidelines and there are people who absolutely can’t leave the front door without a complete road map.

As it stands now, the people who crave freedom the most are disenfranchised, because that specific demographic feels hard done by.

The other two groups are probably more okay with the changes.

There are several ways to deal with the situation. One way is to give more options for the dailies, which may or may not circumvent what Anet is trying to do.

Another way is to give people 5 achievement points for logging in and another five if they do three of the dailies. That wouldn’t change my game at all, and might mollify some of those who dislike the change.

You can use them for key farming if you have a single free character slot and plan on doing nothing else with them.

Traced.3495:

Needs to be completely optional rather than any kind of one time forcing. Available at any time. Throw some shinies in there, point players at direction. I’m thinking something like Guild Wars: Factions does, there are little instances to some skills.
Shing Jea Monastery (the beginning location in Factions) also has nice little guide texts available for reading when ever one feels like. Good to read at one’s own pace.

Except that part of learning the game in Factions involved getting your insignia, which was also a form of tutorial which wasn’t at all optional.

wolfyrik.2017:

Carighan.6758:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Oh please. Open-world-only players weren’t being overly spoiled. Everyone who spent some little time playing open world was getting their dailies done without much effort. Everyone, not just the open-world-only players.

Keep telling yourself that, you might forget about the 50% of the days you had to go out of your way to finish a 1-2 dailies to get the meta. Funny how that works with positive vs negative memories.

As opposed to now where you’re pretty much guarenteed to have to go out of your way to get the meta? I’d also like to see your evidence for “50%”.

Yet, your post proves that you do infact acknowledge that before, the dailies were more accessible and gave more choice, even if only “50%” of the time. Funny how that works….

Seriously though, it’s more than just the dailies, as people keep having to repeatedly point out. The overall paradigm shift is towards herding players into specific content for specific tasks in order to gain access to rewards that were previously avaiable to them through playing the content they wanted. It’s a stark contrast to the philosophy the game was built on.
The player is increasingly controlled, choices ever diminished, to the point that it is putting people off playing all together. However much you may try to brush it off or rationalise it, the result is the same; fewer people playing the game. It doesn’t matter whether you perceive that to be relatively few or the majority, the fact is that the philosophy shift is alienating players. That can never be a good thing.

The appearance of choice is diminished. You’re talking about very narrow specific choices, not over all choices.

You can easily choose to ignore those 10 achievement points, and just do what you want anyway. The game gives you complete freedom to do that. You don’t need those points. If you want that reward, as with any reward, you will do what you need to do to get it.

And for people who got 10 points before, or even eight or nine it’s more freedom. It’s only not freedom if you feel you must have the daily done…and since most of the daily rewards come from logging in, that’s more freedom for some people too.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Vayne.8563:

People have gotten refunds more than 30 days after purchase and some people even up to six months.

However, if you’re spending 60 bucks and you have a game you’re playing for 4-5 months, most people would consider that a win.

I gotta ask… where did you find players who got a refund after 6 months? Refund tickets are good for the first 30 days after purchase (so says the knowledge base).

It was all over the forums at the time when Anet released ascended gear. The change in direction was something I guess they felt that warranted a refund for some people. There are people who did get refunds after that, including a couple who were in my guild at that time, who saw it as a betrayal.

I might be strange, but I thought that was fun to read it like that. I was entertained by the fact that I didn’t know where it was going.

That said, I agree there is too much clicking at times when it comes to getting loot from bags. However, I like certain bags, because I like to open them on a 58th level character and get those tier of mats from salvages. It’s how I maintain enough linen and rugged leather to keep crafting.

Immensus.9732:

Ive sunk over 1000 hours into the game and every single one of it is worth it, but then i hit a wall. Do i think the game needs endgame after 1000 hours? Yes, theres only 3 types of end game for co-op/online games that makes them last. 1. Competition (see mobas)
2. Gear treadmill (see wow, diablo, borderlands) 3. sandbox and freedom (see minecraft, EvE online). Gw2 has none of them and is strugling on keeping at least the competition part. thats why i think it could have been a perfect co-op experience with new game every 5-6 years rather than MMO.

I think the MMO genre is too new to say what will and won’t work longterm anymore. Years ago, when MMOs weren’t main stream you might have been right.

But I suspect there are enough people now who are achievement point hunters and people who like to play dress up with different alts that could carry a game like this indefinitely.

A lot of people would leave, but in my opinion the numbers left behind would be enough to fund the game.

And because the genre is new and growing and changing, we won’t know if this will work until it’s actually tried.

Randulf.7614:

I would remove your own opinions, both positive and negative. Whilst the core of your points are valid, some of your interpretations of them will bias players one way or the other. Givve them the facts, let them decide if its worth it

This. For example, I like, genuinely like, the NPE. Some events have been made stupider like the cows, but some have been improved like the little cloud things that follow you in Metrica.

However the rewards for leveling are pretty cool to me, I feel like the pacing is better. It’s easy to get things like level up scrolls if you PvP (in fact PvP rewards are much much better) and you even get level up scrolls from daily log in rewards now.

Seems to me that a lot of chances to the game are okay to a lot of people and not okay to a lot of other people. So when I tell people watch changes I leave out the personal commentary and tell them there are a lot of little details that change the game quite significantly.

Some people might like some stuff I don’t and vice versa, so I just leave the judgements off.

People have gotten refunds more than 30 days after purchase and some people even up to six months.

However, if you’re spending 60 bucks and you have a game you’re playing for 4-5 months, most people would consider that a win.

Actually it’s factually incorrect to say SAB will not be returning. Colin confirmed that it will return.

Arrow.4619:

Vayne.8563:

Gamer personality was a system that went nowhere. Seeing as it went nowhere, they probably shelved it.

Not telling us about shelving it though is a bad oversight.

The only impact it had originally was in providing dialogue choices. It is quite possible they did drop it since apparently providing more than two options in most of the living story dialogues was too much work. Not telling us about dropping it would be pretty typical of ANet these days.

I think, but I’m not 100% certain, that you still get the dialogue choices. You just can’t see why.

Magic Learner.8953:

Xenesis.6389:

The one thing GW2 has over WoW is that it’s free and you can play it on your own time, with or in between games.

I don’t know about you, but I had to buy GW 2, so it’s not free, its cost to play it is a lot lower than WoW’s cost is, but it isn’t free to play game.

Yes, but there’s still a vast gulf between B2P and P2P. I think we all know what he meant.

Gamer personality was a system that went nowhere. Seeing as it went nowhere, they probably shelved it.

Not telling us about shelving it though is a bad oversight.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Havoc.3865:

The new daily system alienates new players. I’m trying to introduce my friends to this game, and how the hell are they going to complete events in level 30-45 areas to get the dailies, when they are playing their first character, who’s level 20?

If you want to make newbies quit because they ca’t get anything done, congratulations, they are quitting and I will be going inactive again because no one wants to play with me, thanks a lot arena net.

For the 100th time, on accounts that don’t have high level characters, they get different dailies. This isn’t theory it’s fact. I’ve posted screenshots twice.

On my wife’s new account she doesn’t get dailies until she has a character at a level than can do them. When we got Claw of Jormag, she got Shadow Behemoth.

Does she have to do three tasks on the lower level account?

The wording in the patch notes is a bit ambiguous.

“The number of available achievements per day is based on the highest-level character on an account:

Levels 1 – 10: 1 achievement per category
Levels 11 – 30: 3 achievements per category
Levels 31 – 80: 4 achievements per category"

If three tasks are required to complete regardless of max level character, someone with only a L8, say, would have to do the one task in each of the three categories. Not that it matters to me, just curious if you know.

Yes she has three tasks, but there are three tasks she can do at her level, end of story.

Whether the patch notes are wrong or not is less relevant to what’s being said. That new players can’t do the dailies. It’s not true. My wife does them every day.

So, you don’t know. Thanks.

I only wondered if your wife’s new account had only characters ten and under during a new daily day, and if so, whether she had to complete one task to get daily completion, or three.

Sheesh.

@ Mal: that’s what I thought, also, but was seeking confirmation.

Nope. She has characters over 10. Highest is about level 40.

Okay I love this idea.

It was my understanding that the starter zones were basically turned into the tutorial zones. While a separate zone would be cool, it’s also work. It’s work for new players that most people will end up skipping.

Experienced players with level 20 scrolls or 14 tomes of knowledge can skip the tutorial zone anyway.

Even if you don’t skip it, you can be out of there in an hour now, maybe an hour and a half.

So no, I don’t agree that a tutorial zone would be worth the time and effort to work on.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Havoc.3865:

The new daily system alienates new players. I’m trying to introduce my friends to this game, and how the hell are they going to complete events in level 30-45 areas to get the dailies, when they are playing their first character, who’s level 20?

If you want to make newbies quit because they ca’t get anything done, congratulations, they are quitting and I will be going inactive again because no one wants to play with me, thanks a lot arena net.

For the 100th time, on accounts that don’t have high level characters, they get different dailies. This isn’t theory it’s fact. I’ve posted screenshots twice.

On my wife’s new account she doesn’t get dailies until she has a character at a level than can do them. When we got Claw of Jormag, she got Shadow Behemoth.

Does she have to do three tasks on the lower level account?

The wording in the patch notes is a bit ambiguous.

“The number of available achievements per day is based on the highest-level character on an account:

Levels 1 – 10: 1 achievement per category
Levels 11 – 30: 3 achievements per category
Levels 31 – 80: 4 achievements per category"

If three tasks are required to complete regardless of max level character, someone with only a L8, say, would have to do the one task in each of the three categories. Not that it matters to me, just curious if you know.

Yes she has three tasks, but there are three tasks she can do at her level, end of story.

Whether the patch notes are wrong or not is less relevant to what’s being said. That new players can’t do the dailies. It’s not true. My wife does them every day.

The NPE improved pacing and rewards. WoW players in general, coming with a WOW mindset may well not like this game and that’s okay.

Many of us can’t stand WoW. Not every game will be for everyone.

There are a lot of people who jump in games judge fast and leave. It’s normal. There’s nothing to see here.

In my opinion, your friend likely wouldn’t have stayed anyway, but your own prejudiced probably didn’t help.

Havoc.3865:

The new daily system alienates new players. I’m trying to introduce my friends to this game, and how the hell are they going to complete events in level 30-45 areas to get the dailies, when they are playing their first character, who’s level 20?

If you want to make newbies quit because they ca’t get anything done, congratulations, they are quitting and I will be going inactive again because no one wants to play with me, thanks a lot arena net.

For the 100th time, on accounts that don’t have high level characters, they get different dailies. This isn’t theory it’s fact. I’ve posted screenshots twice.

On my wife’s new account she doesn’t get dailies until she has a character at a level than can do them. When we got Claw of Jormag, she got Shadow Behemoth.

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, some options that were there before aren’t there anymore now. Hollowing out the game, one feature per major update.

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, it took considerably longer for me to get 10 points before, doing stuff I didn’t want to do in the process than now.

For someone going for 10 points a day I have more options now, because after I get those ten points (usually in ten, fifteen minutes), I have the rest of my day free to play.

That’s a whole lot more options.

You know Vayne, as I’ve mentioned to many other people in this thread: its really great that you are enjoying the new Dailies (seriously). However the fact that you like them is not in the least an argument against those of us who don’t. I, and many others, now have less choice that we like in the new Dailies. We are not advocating that your new choices be removed. We are advocating that we get our own choice back so that the people who like the new Dailies and those who preferred the choices in the old can be equal.

Anyone trying to either shut us up or tell us that our complaint is not valid is only trying to tell us that we are not equal in importance to them.

And as I keep saying only if you care about getting those achievement points which many don’t.

Not sure what your point is – obviously those of us who are discussing it here DO care.

I’m not denying that there are people dissatisfied with the new dailies. But I think that there are very very few people by percentage that are very dissatisfied and I think as people are getting used to them, most people are satisfied.}

This isn’t just about me and you. And you’re perfectly free to complain. I just don’t think there are that many of you by percentage and yes, that makes a huge difference.

First, you have no idea how many people are dissatisfied. And second, even if there are less people dissatisfied why does that matter? Its not a contest. Both groups can have what they want.

Sure, if they add more dailies and make it even easier, it won’t inconvenience me…but I’m still not sure Anet is willing to do it. I think they want you to do something for those points. Which is the point.

Happy New Year everyone!

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, some options that were there before aren’t there anymore now. Hollowing out the game, one feature per major update.

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, it took considerably longer for me to get 10 points before, doing stuff I didn’t want to do in the process than now.

For someone going for 10 points a day I have more options now, because after I get those ten points (usually in ten, fifteen minutes), I have the rest of my day free to play.

That’s a whole lot more options.

You know Vayne, as I’ve mentioned to many other people in this thread: its really great that you are enjoying the new Dailies (seriously). However the fact that you like them is not in the least an argument against those of us who don’t. I, and many others, now have less choice that we like in the new Dailies. We are not advocating that your new choices be removed. We are advocating that we get our own choice back so that the people who like the new Dailies and those who preferred the choices in the old can be equal.

Anyone trying to either shut us up or tell us that our complaint is not valid is only trying to tell us that we are not equal in importance to them.

And as I keep saying only if you care about getting those achievement points which many don’t.

I’m not denying that there are people dissatisfied with the new dailies. But I think that there are very very few people by percentage that are very dissatisfied and I think as people are getting used to them, most people are satisfied.}

This isn’t just about me and you. And you’re perfectly free to complain. I just don’t think there are that many of you by percentage and yes, that makes a huge difference.

I’ve seen a good dozen, maybe two dozen complaint threads by people leaving in the last month. I’ve seen as many about people joining in the last month.

I can guarantee you more people leave WoW a month than leave Guild Wars 2 a month. Every game loses people. Stop trying to make it something it’s not.

HtFde.3856:

Subdue.5479:

People seem to throw the word “forced” around on this thread. For a lot of people, the daily changes amount to more freedom and greater rewards.

Er … less effort maybe if your main objective is to just get the dailies but for people who actually prefer to play the game (not play for the dailies) and who are used to the dailies just being completed while you play … the term “forced” is perfectly right.

I can mine 100 ore nodes, chop down entire forests and uproot every veggy available and still not get the daily because I am doing it where I need it (like, say, an area with platinum and iron and soft wood – as I run out of those fastest) but instead ANet wants me to mine copper in Queensdale …

Freedom? Our definitons seem to differ …

So you’re not free to TP to get the daily if you want. You don’t even have to, because most of the currency you used to get you get for free. Which means that most of the currencies require no action at all, certainlyi more freedom.

And if you wanted to get 10 points in the old system, this is more freedom.

If you don’t care about achievement points, this is more freedom. Just don’t do the daily you get the old rewards for the most part anyway.

That’s more freedom, not less.

Oh noes. I have to teleport and mine 4 things before I being playing?

Yes, it’s tragic.

Sogradde.8016:

lordkrall.7241:

Do people really think that they would take 1,5 hours on the MAIN STAGE for not telling us anything?

Just FYI: I’m saving all those white knight quotes of you and Vayne to look at them and laugh when it turns out to be false.

And will you be gracious enough to admit you’re wrong if we’re not? White knights are just people who like the game. Trying to discredit people who like the game because you don’t isn’t actually making you look any better.

Manasa Devi.7958:

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, some options that were there before aren’t there anymore now. Hollowing out the game, one feature per major update.

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, it took considerably longer for me to get 10 points before, doing stuff I didn’t want to do in the process than now.

For someone going for 10 points a day I have more options now, because after I get those ten points (usually in ten, fifteen minutes), I have the rest of my day free to play.

That’s a whole lot more options.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Takami.7015:

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Takami.7015:

Harsh for new players
I rolled a new character recently just for fun. Thought I’d do the daily on my new character. Not a chance. Fight Jormag as a level 3? Sure! Clear events in Timberline falls as a level 3? Not a problem. This highlighted to me that this daily system is only for established players. The system is quite unworkable for new players. The chance of you being able to complete the daily meta as a new player through PvE achievements alone is practically zero. Sure, you might get one achievement to chop down some trees, but that would be it.

Dailies work slightly differently for new players/accounts -

The number of available achievements per day is based on the highest-level character on an account:
Levels 1–10: 1 achievement per category
Levels 11–30: 3 achievements per category
Levels 31–80: 4 achievements per category

I see, wasn’t very obvious though. Thanks for clearing that up.

I believe others have said that the actual achievements are different as well so instead of Claw of Jormag they got a low levelled World Boss. Admittedly I don’t have an account to test this (I have quite a few 80’s :-P ) so I can’t confirm the truth of this.

I do have an account to test this and it’s indeed true. I’ve even posted screen shots in other threads.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

I guess it would break somebodies bones to announce anything here, today, and save themselves the price of the rent on a large hall at a convention?

The larger hall at the convention is where they want to make annoucements, not here. The people here are already interested, one way or another, in Guild Wars 2. Bigger announcements are a way to get more people interested, and a place like Pax gets them exposure they can’t get here.

I’ve said all along that big announcements are usually reserved for the time when it makes sense to announce them. To me that’s either the 10 year anniversary of the Franchise in April or maybe at Pax.

Azure.8670:

Nick.6972:

I liked Siverwastes, interestingly designed map, was fun for about 3-4 hours and then I left and ever returned, just like that other map.
There’s nothing to do on those maps unless you want to AP farm or zerg.

theres really no zerging or AP farming on SW, dry top as well for that matter. Its actually the complete opposite. The maps force you to seperate and take care of events all over the map as often as possible in order for you to get the proper reward. I hope more of the maps in the future are like this, SW is extremely rewarding it feels like a giant dungeon and I love it. The mobs are actually difficult to the point that I barely melee anything there. Sad you spent such a short amount of time in the best part of the game

This is true. Those who zerg in those maps miss out. And long after I have all the AP I can get from Dry Top I still return there.