No part of the daily is required for you to do any other content in game. They are 100% optional. Whining about being told what to do in order to get a specific reward in a video game is just silly. Itd be like whining that needing do dungeons to get dungeon armor is also the devs “controlling you”.
Also, like the other 50 people in this thread have said, you should have just skipped the event and crafted an essence of luck which wouldnt take more than 30s. And if people didnt know how to do that, making a thread asking for advice would still take a lot less time than these posts take to write.
Sorry, do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Assuming that nobody but you knows the essence of luck trick (btw, I don’t need to do essences of luck, I craft at least a dozen exotics daily and yes, I got all my crafts to max. All.), that everybody “whines”. No, I do not whine. I stand up for myself, having the audacity to demand that what I paid for has quality. Going on the assumption way, I presume that when you order filet mignon and pay ahead, if they serve you a chalupa you just happily eat it because you don’t want to sound like a whiner?
I simply tried to make the new daily fun. The way the old one was. It didn’t work. It will not work. Happy tailwagging.
The old daily wasn’t as fun for me, because it took me longer to get 10 points. The new daily is more fun for me, because I get 10 points in a fraction of the time.
It’s not fun to view a vista or craft an exotic (Even though when I make my daily ascended I get credit anyway).
But 15-20 minutes a day or 10 achievement points is better than we used to have for many of us. And getting those didn’t used to be fun.
I honestly don’t understand these replies. No, you can’t play where you want and still get the same Daily AP. I’m not sure why that is difficult to understand.
But that was always true if you wanted 10 points. If I wanted 10 points from the old dailies, I could not play where I wanted either.
Now I can not play where I want for 15 minutes instead of an hour and a half. More freedom for people who care about achievement points. And more freedom for people who don’t really care about them.
Right now, you could do a daily every other day, and still get as many achievement points as doing the full daily for 2 days.
That would mean some players will have less freedom, but many will have more.
I don’t know which players there are more of though.
this system is superior for people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.
I am glad that this 1% will now be a lot happier than the other 90% of casual PvEers who were getting 5-8 AP daily in the old system just for playing the game and without wasting any time on pet tricks. That’s a great way to retain players, I agree.
/sarcasm
Proof of numbers, please.
- Rank 1-100: 26500AP – 25100AP
- Rank 100-1000: 25100AP – 21750AP
- Rank 90%: 21750AP – 4130AP
- Rank 50%: 850AP
https://leaderboards.guildwars2.com/en/eu/achievements/
Even if dead-set AP hunters are more than 1% of population, they’re a clear minority.
people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.
How do those numbers represent that? Those numbers don’t appear to include anything about where or how any given person plays, or what their desire is as far as daily APs.
What does, if not these numbers?
As of 2013, around 860,000 were active players. Top 1000 (1/9th of a percent) has AP from 25100AP to 21750AP – quite a gap. Only 10% of all registered players have more than 4100AP. 50% have less than 850AP. Let’s use common sense: how many dead-set AP hunters at all can there be? A handful, that’s it. Several percent. Now subtract the AP hunters who didn’t want to ever go to PvE – a subset within a subset. So why do global changes which affect all players should be focused on the comfort of a definite minority?
You don’t like the dailies, so you’ll attempt to discredit anyone defending them.
On a more serious note: yes, I hate the new dailies, but what I’ve grown to hate even more is the attitude with which dissent is answered again and again:
“Oh stop whining, you get your laurels for just logging in now.”
I don’t attempt to discredit anyone in particular, I just try to destroy that insulting counterargument, tooth and nail if I have to.
Exactly. I can understand why such changes are made; I can see what can be improved and I ain’t really mad at ANet; who I’m mad at are players willing to defend the changes which suit only them with sadistic pleasure.
This is a double standard.
You’re mad at players who defend a change to the game that’s good for them , but you’re not mad at players who complain about a change which might well be good for the game, but isn’t good for them. You really can’t have it both ways.
I believe the change does need some tweaking, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good change.
It’s not that you have less choice, you have less freedom to ignore what the dailies are. Before you were able to simply play how you normally play and you would get at least some of the 12 dailies done within 30-60 minutes, unless you are a hard core PvP player.
But now you have to be keenly aware what the dailies are just to do three. If you normally don’t go into map X there is no way you could accidentally get the mining/lumbering/forging daily. If you’ve done all the Vistas why would you visit one in a specific region? Again if you don’t normally do map X you don’t know all the event spawn locations and frequency like the back of your hand. If you normally don’t do a particular boss event there isn’t a way accidentally get it.
And this is where players feel like they lost agency, they now, if they want AP the daily provides, must do specific activities rather than just stumbling over them. They are forced to choose now, 10 AP or playing how they like.
It’s not a shift to less choice but less freedom.
Freedom is a funny word. I have more freedom under this system, because I wanted more achievement points, as did a lot of people.
Under the old system, it would take me an hour or more to get 10 achievement points, which forced me usually into other areas of play. I’m surely not alone in this.
Now, I get the same achievement points in less time, which means more freedom. Doing what I want for most of my play time.
In the old days if I spent an hour to an hour and a half to get ten points and now I spend 15 minutes, that gives me 1.25 hours free that I didn’t have before.
Yes, 15-20 minutes of my time isn’t dictated by what I want to do now, but before it was far more.
How much freedom is gives you, or how much lack of freedom depends on your play style and it depends on several factors.
1. If you don’t care about achievement points at all, then this gives you more freedom than before, because all the other rewards are obtained just by logging in.
2. If you got more than 5-6 achievement points a day, this might well give you more freedom than the old method.
3. Even if you only got 5 achievement points a day, that means this way you only have to do a daily every other day.
But there’s more. So far I’ve had 3 achievements that I’ve done to make an exotic item which takes no time at all on any character, as long as you save some luck essences, which anyone can do. That gives me 3 ectos.
To get 3 ectos before, would have meant farming more. To get the extra mats I get from the daily gatherer before was more time spent.
Having more mats and money (more rewards) means that I’m farming less. Not having to farm is more freedom.
It’s a very tight interpretation to say I have to teleport to this place and mine 4 nodes (which is all it is). Once you know where those nodes are, it’s literally 2 minutes.
I get more mats in those two minutes than I could have gotten before because of the reward. This is more freedom.
I used to do my daily on a character I was leveling (which I was usually doing). Now I can do the daily on any character I choose and give the experience to any character I choose. Even more freedom.
Whether this is more or less freedom is dependent on how you play.
Minimalistic? Are we playing the same game? Typically, every two weeks, there’s new content. New items added to the gem store. New zones. New cinematics. New quests. New story lines. New events. New achievements.
Every. Two. Weeks.
What other MMO does that?
To be fair, it’s not every two weeks for most of the year, but I do believe that people are understating what has been delivered.
I don’t really care if a company that waits a year plus for an expansion adding nothing and then charging for the expansion, while charging a monthly fee gives me more content.
That’s like saying that I got a cookie for free with my coffee, but some other place that I payed for an entire meal gave me an entire meal. The cookie was free. I only bought the coffee.
Lotro is owned by Turbine which I found to be entirely greedy. Games like SWToR and pay to walk. You can’t even get a second skill bar without paying to unlock it. Lotro has professions locked out by a pay wall, and areas. DDO has dungeons and classes and races locked out by a pay wall.
Sure those games may have come out with more content. But you pay for that content. It’s not free content.
It’s a daft comparison.
Mayko, unfortunately, the amount of people blindly defending this new system, who are not willing to admit that the system changed to a worse way for other people with other playstyles, and agreeing that pointless grind which makes players hate each other (<Map> Events and <Profession> Wins, looking at you) is good, is surprisingly high, as you can see from the recently renamed ‘I dislike the new dailies’ thread. The game overall is changing, and unsurprisingly, the amount of players who are content with being spoonfed and given pet tricks to perform for tasty treats, is rising.
Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.
Oh… so now players are required to have divine knowledge of the best “exploits” to efficiently fight the pigeonholing dailies?
I ran into Gendarran Fields today with a level 28 character to do the events, and it took me my best knowledge of the profession to be able to tag kills and earn event participation – which a couple times I didn’t, and other times died because the events got upscaled for hordes of lvl 80s. Is it also the “knowledge” we’re speaking of?
I’m sorry. Did you just call crafting an essence of luck “divine knowledge”. Because it sounds a lot like what you were saying, so yeah.
I player who believes that crafting an exotic is expensive has made a mistake. But not only is it free to craft an exotic, and not only can you do it from level 0 on artificer, but it also rewards 3 ectos.
So now, by learning this, the next time that daily comes up, this person will know.
However, this isn’t some hidden, arcane, super knowledge known only to the select few. It’s been posted in quite a few threads. It’s something anyone can ask about.
Learning the game is part of playing the game. That’s true for any MMO.
I do believe today players expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, but complaining about dailies on a day with a free one with such a great payoff is just poor. I read the title of this thread, and it’s over stated with an exclamation mark.
Before posting something so directly aggressive, one might check the facts.
I must admit I’m surprised by so many people kitten over Guild Wars 2 winning an award. If World of Warcraft is so great, please feel free to play and post on their boards. Coming here, when it’s obvious you no longer play, to kick and scream about some random award is just silly.
I crafted an ascended chest yesterday, does this count as “still playing the game”. If so, I feel free to comment on this board as an active player.
Doesn’t change the fact, that if this game had offered any less than we got in 2014, we would have gotten nothing. Best established MMO of 2014 my kitten…
Overstatements aren’t truth. They could have offered less and we’d still have gotten something.
You don’t like what we got, fair enough. But that doesn’t change the fact that we got stuff.
You don’t like the game, so what are you actually playing? Because for a person who doesn’t like the game you sure post here a lot.
But Vayne, you of all should know.
I post here because I can. And so do you. I have the same right as you do, so does anyone, as long as they stay in the borders set by the forum rules. Noone can tell me to leave.
I do not hate the game. But while you are defending what you got, and at the same time accepting mediocrity, I try to push this game to the image many players have had in the past.
Do I succeed? No, looking at the NPE and trait stuff, I do not.Still pointing out what is wrong, be it my opinion or not, is what I am allowed to do.
For the better of us all, I will stay. Nothing worse than a forum with only like-minded left.
I’m not accepting mediocrity nor your definition of mediocrity. I’m accepting something I consider reasonable. Also I didn’t ask you to leave.
I’m just pointing out that if I found a really cool game I enjoyed, I’d be posting on those forums. You’re not.
I’d certainly not waste time posting on forums of a game I have nothing good to say about.
I don’t personally care if you stay or go. But I find a suspect that someone who hasn’t had a positive word to say about this game (and yet finds time to defend other games) still posts here.
I makes me question their motivation.
I must admit I’m surprised by so many people kitten over Guild Wars 2 winning an award. If World of Warcraft is so great, please feel free to play and post on their boards. Coming here, when it’s obvious you no longer play, to kick and scream about some random award is just silly.
I crafted an ascended chest yesterday, does this count as “still playing the game”. If so, I feel free to comment on this board as an active player.
Doesn’t change the fact, that if this game had offered any less than we got in 2014, we would have gotten nothing. Best established MMO of 2014 my kitten…
Overstatements aren’t truth. They could have offered less and we’d still have gotten something.
You don’t like what we got, fair enough. But that doesn’t change the fact that we got stuff.
You don’t like the game, so what are you actually playing? Because for a person who doesn’t like the game you sure post here a lot.
Crafting an exotic is free if you have an artificer at 100 or higher. Lack of knowledge is more of a problem here than the dailies.
Tentonhammer does still exist?
Well, what is their method of measuring this “best”?
Established MMO #1: Regained 4.000.000 subscribers with a single expansion this year. Looks like success to me.
Established MMO #2: Expanded to China with very limited success (being kind here) while just trying to keep the status quo in the West. Sounds not as successful as MMO #1 to me.
Logic? Tentonhammer is not good at it.
Or they don’t measure success based on advertising budget. Who’d have thunk it.
I have people in my guild who played the WoW expansion, found they had nothing to do because of how dumbed down WoW has become and they’re back here. Imagine that.
They can dumb down wow asmuch as they want and it will still be miles ahead of the autoattack fest this game is. The only challenging content this gameoffers is managing your inventory.
And if life were only about challenging content, that would actually matter. But not everyone is centered around challenging content, in fact, most people probably aren’t.
Whether you like this game or not is irrelevant. It won this award because some people like it. You might not be the target audience.
And for people who demand and really want challenging content as their main bread and butter, that’s not my demographic.
That’s why there are different games for different people. If people don’t like this one, I’m sure they can find one they do like.
But obviously they’d rather stay around here and talk down this game, instead of playing something better. Maybe that’s because they can’t find something better.
re: The odd thing is that the old system had fewer choices, or less freedom, than the new. – I don’t mean to be rude but we must be talking about “choices” in two different ways. I guess I’ve been unclear, sorry. I mean the tasks that you do to to accomplish the dailies, as well as the number and ratio offer less freedom of choice.
5 of 8 is more freedom of choice than 3 of 4.
Gather from any 20 nodes anywhere is more freedom of choice than gather from 10 of a specific type of node in a specific region.
Complete 5 events anywhere or even complete 4 events in a specific region offers more freedom of choice that complete 4 event on a specific map.(And this one is especially bad when it sends zergs of high level players into starter areas.)
Kill any 50 monsters anywhere, offers tremendous freedom of choice. I could get it without altering my plans at all.
View a vista in a specific region offers less freeedom of choice.
etc…
Also choices are sometimes being chosen without regard for variety, as when we got 2 fractal choices on 2014-12-26.
Do those examples make my position more clear? Regardless of what you think of the new vs. the old dailies, there was more freedom of choice with the old.I will say it’s good that PvP and WvW players can get their daily without having to leave their preferred game mode. But why couldn’t they have just given all game modes 5 out of 8 choices for completion? I don’t understand why they have to limit our choices so much. And make the choices we have so restrictive.
Except it’s not 3 of 4. It’s 3 of 12. Some people are simply saying that they will never enter any other area of the game for any reason even if it it’s just to talk to a vendor. Before to get 10 points I had to do 10 dailies, which meant entering into those areas anyway. Now I can get 10 points without ever touching them.
And most of the rewards otherwise without even doing 1 daily.
That’s more freedom not less. I’m certainly more free than I was.
At no point did I say that the achievement points would affect the leaderboards.
Oh dear…
Giving away points that affect a leaderboard? That’s a completely different story.
cough
You don’t like the dailies, so you’ll attempt to discredit anyone defending them. Which is why this conversation, on my part ends here.
Yeah, we better stop this, because what’s the point in arguing with someone who can’t keep his story straight?
lol 4:26 am here, I’d like to see you keep your story half as straight at this hour. G’night.
My wife has been skipping dailies for since she started playing GW2, she was even skipping playing GW2 for over a year (well she never really played GW2 with a passion anyway).
Still alive.
So little point in this thread – but hey, at least someone from ANet spoke to us. Thank god for all this communication!
Certainly little point to your post, since she wasn’t really into the game. I’m pretty sure my wife would not willing miss a daily even now.
The point is, there is a degeneration in matters of gameplay. Before: play the game and you probably get rewarded with achieving the daily. Now: log in, get reward, log out.
I have not done a single daily since the change. If ANet’s goal is to make people play less, they are really successful with it. If I get more enjoyment and reward out of just logging in in LA than from playing the game, something is wrong.
Before when I played the game, I usually tried to get as many of the dailies done as I could. The game is improved for me.
It’s not a degeneration of the game. It’s an improvement for certain play styles and a problem for others…like virtually every change. Content is too easy or too hard. It’s too fast, or it’s not long enough. It’s released too quickly or not quickly enough. It’s too hand holding or it’s confusing. You’re never going to get everyone to agree.
But this isn’t a degeneration, even if you say it is, because it’s absolutely improved my game. It may be a personal degeneration for you.
Seeing something different doesn’t equal hypocrisy. Just as you try to pass off a legitimate difference with a semantic one, when you run out of valid points, you try to play the hypocrisy card. It doesn’t strengthen your argument.
I’m not saying there’s no difference in fuction or nature between AP and laurels. I’m just saying there’s no rational way to defend why it is more proper to have one for free and the other not, based upon that difference. You’re right, hypocrisy isn’t the right word to describe this irrational opinion. The right word would probably not be tolerated on these forums.
There is a difference between a currency and a token of accomplishment though in some cases they can be the same. Currency has always been given away in this game.
You can get two free wintersday gifts a day just by talking to Tixx and interacting with a tree. These gifts contain currencies. Those currencies, including ugly wool items, are used at a merchant.
And unpacking a few of these free gifts gives you an achievement point. Achievement points have also always been “given away” in this game, and still are in some cases. Especially before the recent daily update. Seeing how both were incredibly easy to rake in, the change seems arbitrary.
Saying that currencies need to be treated the same as something like achievement points is an opinion. Calling it hypocrisy is a cop out.
But they were treated much the same before, especially with regard to dailies. They were given out hand-in-hand. Heck, achievement points came easier than laurels even. I’m saying, the change was arbitrary. If two thing start out being handled the same, and are accepted as being handled the same by everyone, how can anyone perceive any logic in one being handled differently now instead of it being the other way around or both being handled in that same different fashion?
Saying “but one is a currency and the other isn’t” makes no difference at all. Both have a subjective value and that subjectiveness will make people have differing opinions on which one should be handed out for free, and which one should be “worked” for. Some will even insist that neither should be given out for free.
Laurels are a currency with which you use to buy stuff. No one can view your laurels. There’s no leaderboard for laurels. Giving away a currency is something games do all the time.
Giving away points that affect a leaderboard? That’s a completely different story.
Not acknowledging that is disingenuous.
Leaderboards are an abomination that caused the whole obsessive daily problem in the first place. And, as you are fond of pointing out when it favors your arguments, there’s a daily AP cap. This completely invalidates your point that free daily AP would mess with the leaderboards. Eventually, daily AP would only provide a 15k baseline for all active players and the real “leaderboard heroes” will start to shine. It won’t even take very long for the top of the board to max out the new maximum of 15k, many of them already hit 10k and are probably further than most on the way to what was formerly the 5k monthly cap. Now, please don’t respond with how long it will take for all active players to cap out their daily AP. You never accepted that as a counterargument yourself.
And no, currencies are not given away all the time. There have been numerous times that I played for hours without having gotten any free currency at all. I would even say that not getting free currency has always been the norm, and free currency a very occasional perk.
You’re obviously so blinded by your own argument you’re not even reading what I’m saying.
At no point did I say that the achievement points would affect the leaderboards. I simply said the leaderboards show that it was intended to be a different type of reward, rather than a currency. Obviously, eventually that would balance out…but it has nothing to do with what I’m saying.
You don’t like the dailies, so you’ll attempt to discredit anyone defending them. Which is why this conversation, on my part ends here.
My wife has been skipping dailies for since she started playing GW2, she was even skipping playing GW2 for over a year (well she never really played GW2 with a passion anyway).
Still alive.
So little point in this thread – but hey, at least someone from ANet spoke to us. Thank god for all this communication!
Certainly little point to your post, since she wasn’t really into the game. I’m pretty sure my wife would not willing miss a daily even now.
Far too many people play for the achievements specifically for them to be abolished. For people who do need direction, achievements are an important guide.
So….people want to play as they want….but be told what to do….?
I don’t know where Vayne gets this – people don’t “need” direction. Anet introduced a system (Dailies) that shows or reminds players of choices they might not normally make in their game play. People could choose to do those activities and get a small reward. Only recently has Anet started trying to force players to do certain activities by reducing rewards for straight PvE play (maps / hearts).
It they don’t need direction, then why care about dailies that (before and after update) that told you what to do?
Even before the update, plenty of people were ruled by the dailies. They’d come in, they’d look at the list and they’d play the game like a check list. Many people do it in zones as well with zone completion. I’ve seen it time and time again. If you haven’t seen it, you’re just not paying attention.
Sometimes I think there are more people playing games as a checklist than there are just experiencing the world.
Far too many people play for the achievements specifically for them to be abolished. For people who do need direction, achievements are an important guide.
So….people want to play as they want….but be told what to do….?
I don’t know where Vayne gets this – people don’t “need” direction. Anet introduced a system (Dailies) that shows or reminds players of choices they might not normally make in their game play. People could choose to do those activities and get a small reward. Only recently has Anet started trying to force players to do certain activities by reducing rewards for straight PvE play (maps / hearts).
I’m sorry. People don’t need direction? Have you ever even looked at the player helping player forums? The idea of people needing direction is why the entire industry has moved in the direction it has.
What do you think Dulfy is? Do you think no one goes there? Do you think everyone found those coins in Dry Top by exploring?
Do you think people who play other MMOs read the quest text and figure out where to go? Or do the skip the quest text and follow an arrow?
Even in Guild Wars 2, in story missions, there are giant arrows telling you where to go.
In tests run before the game was released, Anet had to add hearts, because people were running by events, because there was no text telling them what to do. One dev was watching a player run by a burning house and he asked the player why the player didn’t go inside to check it out, and the player said because I didn’t have a quest for it.
Why do you think people who are used to quest hubs get confused by playing this game? There are tons of posts about it, and even more people I’ve talked to in game.
Where is Vayne getting this? Reality, that’s where.
Personally, I like the new dailies, they work very well for me.
- The Dailies are not hardcore content. It’s meant to introduce the different areas of the game and what there is to do. Events, crafting materials, dungeons along with PvP and WvW, it’s meant to teach new players. It also comes with an incentive for veterans in forms of chests for each completed daily assignment.
- I’m being eased into the PvP and WvW scene, and I’m actually enjoying myself, since I’m not required to stay long, if it’s not my type of content, but I’m enjoying the casual approach I can take to it and still enjoy content I might otherwise not have tried.That’s great that you are enjoying the changes. I really mean it – I’m glad that you are having fun. But why are you arguing that everyone else should have fun in the same way that you do? Some people do not want to be “eased into the PvP and WvW scene”. Or Fractals or Dungeons or Jumping Puzzles, or Activities, or whichever option each person doesn’t happen to like. Shouldn’t we be allowed to have fun in GW2 the way we always have? With access to the same Achievement rewards that everyone else gets?
This is a fair point. But it leads back to the other question I’ve raised.
If you give people more options and there are easier options among them, most people would just do the easiest.
Imagine if there were 3 vista dalies. That’s all most people would do. Why should they work harder for their 10 achievement points.
I can guarantee you that right now, people are trying other forms of the game for those achievements. I see it in my guild. You may not like that you have to, but some people in my guild have found they are learning to enjoy some of that content…and these are people who swore they wouldn’t ever PvP.
It’s a very difficult balance. Anet has to do what’s good for the game over all, not just what’s good for a percentage of the players. Sometimes that means some players won’t be happy with changes…but that doesn’t mean those changes are bad.
And Anet may yet make changes to the dalies, but I can see reason to not just keep adding more PvE dailies.
I think it’s fair game to require people to leave their comfort zone sometimes to get an achievement.
Far too many people play for the achievements specifically for them to be abolished. For people who do need direction, achievements are an important guide.
So….people want to play as they want….but be told what to do….?
It really is a lot more obvious than that.
Some people NEED to be told what to do. Some people dislike being told what to do. You can’t please all the people.
There are always more followers than leaders. So it’s likely, in my mind, that there are more people who need to be told what to do.
That’s why sandbox MMOs tend to have less traction, particularly in the west. Because people need to be entertained. They’ve forgotten how to make their own fun. Theme park MMOs tend to lead you around, sand boxes let you do what you want.
The most popular western sandbox MMORPG never had more than half a million players at one time. Why are theme parks so popular? Why is it that people would rather follow an arrow or a star around instead of figuring stuff out?
I don’t know. I’m not one of those people.
But that doesn’t mean that those people don’t exist.
You can proved 90% of the casuals were getting 5-8 ap daily in the old system? I’d be interested to see that.
snip.
snip
The problem is that now, to get any daily AP, you have to
perform pet tricksdo specific things instead of doing something. Is it hard to see what people do not like?Yes before they were called dailies and they came with a daily reward which included as only a part of it achievement points. You now get most of those rewards (and more) just for logging in).
You can get extra rewards you could never get before, even if you don’t get the achievement points, by doing any two of the dailies.
But because it’s an achievement point you’re losing, I think (and have always thought) achievements really shouldn’t be something you get incidentally, certainly not daily achievements.
It’s a flaw in the game that has been occasionally commented upon. Now that you actually have to go out of your way for an achievement point, people are up in arms.
There’s nothing in the game you actually need achievement points for, and there are other ways to get them without dailies.
And I have always thought that a laurel wreath was something only awarded to the most excellent of achievers. Certainly, it was like that historically. You didn’t see just anyone run around with laurel wreaths on their crown.
In this game, you got them for completing multiple achievements, something that rang more true to the historical (and present) real-life use of laurel wreaths than the current hand-outs we get for just showing up.
In light of that, I would say that the currency “laurel” as it exists in this game, has lost touch with its etymological roots. Therefore, I propose we change the name of the currency to something more appropriate. Something like: “alms” or perhaps “charity”.
Or perhaps we can just stop the nonsense about it being more proper to actually work for achievement points, while getting laurels for free is okay. Those two acquisition methods paired like they are now is wholly arbitrary and not in any way proper or logical.
This isn’t really semantics. Nothing is locked behind achievement points, except skins. Laurels are useful currency to a lot of people. And yes you got the occasional laurel from an achievement point chest, but not quickly enough to make any use of it.
Laurels are simply more useful to more people than achievement points. That’s why Anet couldn’t just take them away. Achievement points, on the other hand, aren’t just an currency, they’re a form of score. Last time I looked there was no laurel leaderboard. So it’s not just a semantic difference, no matter how much you want to make it so.
I haven’t heard of a cap on laurels either.
You don’t spend achievement points, you’re rewarded for attaining them.
You don’t get titles for earning laurels, you do get titles for hitting certain levels of achievement points.
If you want to try to make this a semantic argument, go right ahead. But the in game reality paints laurels as a currency and achievement points as something other than just a currency.
I’m not trying to make it about semantics. I’m just, once again, trying to point out the hypocrisy of (quoting you): “I think (and have always thought) achievements really shouldn’t be something you get incidentally, certainly not daily achievements.” but seeing nothing wrong with giving out laurels for free, hell, even going one step further and using that “free-ness” to somehow explain why there’s nothing wrong with this system.
Seeing something different doesn’t equal hypocrisy. Just as you try to pass off a legitimate difference with a semantic one, when you run out of valid points, you try to play the hypocrisy card. It doesn’t strengthen your argument.
There is a difference between a currency and a token of accomplishment though in some cases they can be the same. Currency has always been given away in this game.
You can get two free wintersday gifts a day just by talking to Tixx and interacting with a tree. These gifts contain currencies. Those currencies, including ugly wool items, are used at a merchant.
Saying that currencies need to be treated the same as something like achievement points is an opinion. Calling it hypocrisy is a cop out.
Laurels are a currency with which you use to buy stuff. No one can view your laurels. There’s no leaderboard for laurels. Giving away a currency is something games do all the time.
Giving away points that affect a leaderboard? That’s a completely different story.
Not acknowledging that is disingenuous.
Far too many people play for the achievements specifically for them to be abolished. For people who do need direction, achievements are an important guide.
They are turning this game into a bad fairy tale for kids so sadly we wont be able to play the bad guy in near future. Even tough it would be funny to go on a rampage with my flamethrower in a quaggan village.
You couldn’t play a bad guy in Guild Wars 1 either, which so many people compare favorably to this game. It’s not about being adult or a kid. It’s a style of storytelling called heroic fantasy.
But the story telling style was more dirtier, it had more grey shades. Here we have a clear black and white sheme.
You mean like Canach?
Or Scarlet, who turned out to be not evil in the sense we first thought she was?
Edit: Or the new info we’re getting about Caithe? I think that promises to be quite a gray area.
You can proved 90% of the casuals were getting 5-8 ap daily in the old system? I’d be interested to see that.
It’s very easy to say people were getting achievement points by doing nothing, because that’s what was happening. Anet decided to actually make people do something to get achievement points, while giving them the other rewards for free.
We were doing “something” before. You couldn’t get AP simply by logging in, you couldn’t do “nothing”. You had to… surprise! – PLAY the game daily to get daily APs. That’s why they’re called “dailies”. If you were running around the world, killing stuff (naturally applying condies and dodging), gathering mats, for a considerable time, you were boosting ANet’s daily time metrics and getting your APs for playing the game. Would you really argue that people who were actively playing PvE (and not chatting in LA) for 30-60 minutes an evening were not getting AP?
The problem is that now, to get any daily AP, you have to
perform pet tricksdo specific things instead of doing something. Is it hard to see what people do not like?Yes before they were called dailies and they came with a daily reward which included as only a part of it achievement points. You now get most of those rewards (and more) just for logging in).
You can get extra rewards you could never get before, even if you don’t get the achievement points, by doing any two of the dailies.
But because it’s an achievement point you’re losing, I think (and have always thought) achievements really shouldn’t be something you get incidentally, certainly not daily achievements.
It’s a flaw in the game that has been occasionally commented upon. Now that you actually have to go out of your way for an achievement point, people are up in arms.
There’s nothing in the game you actually need achievement points for, and there are other ways to get them without dailies.
And I have always thought that a laurel wreath was something only awarded to the most excellent of achievers. Certainly, it was like that historically. You didn’t see just anyone run around with laurel wreaths on their crown.
In this game, you got them for completing multiple achievements, something that rang more true to the historical (and present) real-life use of laurel wreaths than the current hand-outs we get for just showing up.
In light of that, I would say that the currency “laurel” as it exists in this game, has lost touch with its etymological roots. Therefore, I propose we change the name of the currency to something more appropriate. Something like: “alms” or perhaps “charity”.
Or perhaps we can just stop the nonsense about it being more proper to actually work for achievement points, while getting laurels for free is okay. Those two acquisition methods paired like they are now is wholly arbitrary and not in any way proper or logical.
This isn’t really semantics. Nothing is locked behind achievement points, except skins. Laurels are useful currency to a lot of people. And yes you got the occasional laurel from an achievement point chest, but not quickly enough to make any use of it.
Laurels are simply more useful to more people than achievement points. That’s why Anet couldn’t just take them away. Achievement points, on the other hand, aren’t just an currency, they’re a form of score. Last time I looked there was no laurel leaderboard. So it’s not just a semantic difference, no matter how much you want to make it so.
I haven’t heard of a cap on laurels either.
You don’t spend achievement points, you’re rewarded for attaining them.
You don’t get titles for earning laurels, you do get titles for hitting certain levels of achievement points.
If you want to try to make this a semantic argument, go right ahead. But the in game reality paints laurels as a currency and achievement points as something other than just a currency.
You can proved 90% of the casuals were getting 5-8 ap daily in the old system? I’d be interested to see that.
It’s very easy to say people were getting achievement points by doing nothing, because that’s what was happening. Anet decided to actually make people do something to get achievement points, while giving them the other rewards for free.
We were doing “something” before. You couldn’t get AP simply by logging in, you couldn’t do “nothing”. You had to… surprise! – PLAY the game daily to get daily APs. That’s why they’re called “dailies”. If you were running around the world, killing stuff (naturally applying condies and dodging), gathering mats, for a considerable time, you were boosting ANet’s daily time metrics and getting your APs for playing the game. Would you really argue that people who were actively playing PvE (and not chatting in LA) for 30-60 minutes an evening were not getting AP?
The problem is that now, to get any daily AP, you have to
perform pet tricksdo specific things instead of doing something. Is it hard to see what people do not like?
Yes before they were called dailies and they came with a daily reward which included as only a part of it achievement points. You now get most of those rewards (and more) just for logging in).
You can get extra rewards you could never get before, even if you don’t get the achievement points, by doing any two of the dailies.
But because it’s an achievement point you’re losing, I think (and have always thought) achievements really shouldn’t be something you get incidentally, certainly not daily achievements.
It’s a flaw in the game that has been occasionally commented upon. Now that you actually have to go out of your way for an achievement point, people are up in arms.
There’s nothing in the game you actually need achievement points for, and there are other ways to get them without dailies.
They are turning this game into a bad fairy tale for kids so sadly we wont be able to play the bad guy in near future. Even tough it would be funny to go on a rampage with my flamethrower in a quaggan village.
You couldn’t play a bad guy in Guild Wars 1 either, which so many people compare favorably to this game. It’s not about being adult or a kid. It’s a style of storytelling called heroic fantasy.
There is no strangling of options. Players have more choices under the new system than the old.
Actually I’ve found one particular option removed in terms of laurels. Previously when doing a monthly I would usually log on and blast through my personal choices quite quickly (12 JP, 100 events, X kills, 4 dailies) which would take a maximum of 4 days to achieve 14 laurels (10 monthly + 4 daily). I’m not into maximizing output but that would be enough for me. I have personal reasons that limit my ability to log on often.
Now in order to get at least 14 laurels I have to log on for 16 days rather than 4 (Day 2, 7, 9, and 16) which will take me 4 times as long for a similar reward and require that I be available for a minimum time for at least 16 days as opposed to within my free time during 4 days.Personally this is a significant restriction.
I agree. For you that is a significant restriction. And it sucks and I can sympathize.
I don’t believe most players would be in the same boat, but it certainly doesn’t help those who are.
The new dailies are likely structured in such a way to encourage people to visit different content.
Encouragement offered again and again and again and again (and again and again and again and again) will stop being regarded as encouragement. It will be perceived as harassment.
Active encouragement isn’t passive encouragement. There’s a deal for years to get solar panels where I live. A rebate. It’s advertised in lots of places. I don’t feel harassed by it.
And there are tons of new players, there are tons of returning players, there are tons of people who are only new getting bored with their style of play.
If you want to choose to feel harassed, there’s nothing anyone can do about it. But it’s your choice.
I’d recommend cultivating a bit of understanding about why decisions are made. They can’t always be made for any single individual.
this system is superior for people who wanted to get the maximum amount of AP but didn’t want to leave PVE.
I am glad that this 1% will now be a lot happier than the other 90% of casual PvEers who were getting 5-8 AP daily in the old system just for playing the game and without wasting any time on pet tricks. That’s a great way to retain players, I agree.
/sarcasm
You can proved 90% of the casuals were getting 5-8 ap daily in the old system? I’d be interested to see that.
Can you prove that half of them cared at all?
It’s very easy to say people were getting achievement points by doing nothing, because that’s what was happening. Anet decided to actually make people do something to get achievement points, while giving them the other rewards for free.
I think this is a good thing. Others seem to agree. Others disagree as well. I’m going to guess the majority don’t see it as a bad thing. Why? Because when the majority sees ssomething, you get far more of an outcry than this has been, not just here but on reddit.
I have people in my guild who played the WoW expansion, found they had nothing to do because of how dumbed down WoW has become and they’re back here. Imagine that.
Fighting fire with fire. Hard to imaging that anyone would come back to GW2 for its complexity…
GW2 is not a bad game. But this award is just too much credit for the very little we got.
They’re not coming back for it’s complexity. They’re coming back because this is, currently, a better MMO to them than the one they left. It’s happened to a lot of people over a lot of games.
And you might say, well you know, the industry sucks. No one has made a good MMO in recent years.
That may or may not be true. But if that is true, and this is the best of them, it deserves the award. I certainly think it’s better than other MMOs, including WoW.
It doesn’t have the advertising budget, and it didn’t have the timing WoW had, but that doesn’t mean it’s not as good or better.
The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.
People who can realistically buy gem store stuff from ingame cash are not a majority. At all. This is not a common thing, especially not being able to do it repeatedly. Few players play remotely enough every day to generate that amount of cash.
Also, for most of us we could do 1 extra hour at work and gain a multitude of the amount of gems than we could from a day spent making money ingame. There’s no real motivation to even try use gold.
The only people I see spend gold on gems are on reddit, here, and a few in TxS. The others do the odd gold-to-gems trade to fill up the last 100 or so (I think that’s actually the intention of the weird numbers, try drain gold, otherwise the numbers would be different), but otherwise just spend € when they want something.
Working as intended. The gem store funds the game. If everyone could easily buy stuff, even playing only a bit here and there, no one would need to buy gems, and the game wouldn’t be funded.
The idea is time = money. If you put the time in you can farm enough to buy stuff you want. If you don’t put the time in, you can put cash in and buy gems (which you can sell if you want to someone who has put the time in).
I’m not sure why anyone thinks it shouldn’t be this way.
Because when you find a way to farm gold to get your gem store item, the farming spot gets nerfed.
The gold to gem price is ridiculous as well.
I’ve never found that. Because I mix stuff up and don’t do the same thing over and over again, and somehow, I still make money. Imagine that.
Tentonhammer does still exist?
Well, what is their method of measuring this “best”?
Established MMO #1: Regained 4.000.000 subscribers with a single expansion this year. Looks like success to me.
Established MMO #2: Expanded to China with very limited success (being kind here) while just trying to keep the status quo in the West. Sounds not as successful as MMO #1 to me.
Logic? Tentonhammer is not good at it.
Or they don’t measure success based on advertising budget. Who’d have thunk it.
I have people in my guild who played the WoW expansion, found they had nothing to do because of how dumbed down WoW has become and they’re back here. Imagine that.
The less gold someone has access to, the more likely they are to purchase germs to supplement that gold.
People who can realistically buy gem store stuff from ingame cash are not a majority. At all. This is not a common thing, especially not being able to do it repeatedly. Few players play remotely enough every day to generate that amount of cash.
Also, for most of us we could do 1 extra hour at work and gain a multitude of the amount of gems than we could from a day spent making money ingame. There’s no real motivation to even try use gold.
The only people I see spend gold on gems are on reddit, here, and a few in TxS. The others do the odd gold-to-gems trade to fill up the last 100 or so (I think that’s actually the intention of the weird numbers, try drain gold, otherwise the numbers would be different), but otherwise just spend € when they want something.
Working as intended. The gem store funds the game. If everyone could easily buy stuff, even playing only a bit here and there, no one would need to buy gems, and the game wouldn’t be funded.
The idea is time = money. If you put the time in you can farm enough to buy stuff you want. If you don’t put the time in, you can put cash in and buy gems (which you can sell if you want to someone who has put the time in).
I’m not sure why anyone thinks it shouldn’t be this way.
My hope is hinged on that statement Colin made about something they’re working on that will help out people who have a lot of alts. I hope we don’t have too long to wait, considering that the trait update was April 15th. That’s a long time to go with something that affects the game so negatively for so many.
I honestly don’t think Anet will reverse the trait acquisition system. I’d be happy if they improved it…but it would have to be a significant improvement.
I don’t either but I still think it would be the best choice. They have been repeatedly using the excuse of things being too complicated/difficult for newer players to nuke a lot of the things that a huge amount of people like[d] and I’m sick of it.
There were problems with traits in the past, of course, but there’s pretty much nothing good about the new system other than that we can change them wherever we please.
If the trait system was too complicated before, then implementing a proper tutorial for them would’ve sufficed.
Change for the sake of change isn’t good change.
I don’t believe that the change was just for the sake of change. There was reasoning behind it.
One of the consistent complaints since launch is that as you’re leveling you feel no real sense of advancement. Getting to 80 isn’t even special.
So they moved unlocking that last tier of traits to 80. They tried to create a feeling that you’re actually working to unlock stuff. It was badly implemented, but it wasn’t a change just to change things.
It was a change to act on the leveling complaints.
Regardless of that, if you take WoW out of the Equation and look at every other MMO in the last five years, Guild Wars 2 as successful as any of them (and far more successful than most).
That’s like when a professor says the class average is 60% on a test, and on that test you got 70%. Well, yeah you did do considerably better than the rest but… Well… seems like the “average” student is not so bright (or the test was extremely hard…) and you didn’t really do so well either – just a 70%…. 80% would have been better, +90% would have been preferred to say “yeah I did much better than the rest”
Nope. nothing like it. Because in a class test, everyone is in the same environment. Guild Wars 2 couldn’t be in that environment without a time machine, and not even then.
WoW’s success, in my opinion, is largely dependent on timing and budget to advertise. Which means they had an advantage other companies didn’t have.
Guild Wars 2 launched at a time with dozens of free MMOs. WoW didn’t have that. What had made 5 competitors, none of which could come close to them in investment capitol, particularly coming off the success of their RTS games.
What you’re really doing is judging something after the rules have changed. Of the MMOs playing by the same rules (as in today), Guild Wars 2 is up near the top of the pack.
Anyone who tries to compare a game that debuts now in this climate and a game that debuted 10 years is ignoring reality.
The reward you’re not getting that you would have got before is achievement points on which there is a cap.
That is to say, if you keep doing only the days you want, you’ll end up with the same achievement points eventually.
Actually, for a great many people, likely a vast majority so big that the minority that’s left is insignificantly small, will never cap their daily AP. 15k is a huge amount, getting there before quitting the game for good is highly unlikely. So, getting AP faster means having had more of it before moving on, and as a result of that having unlocked more skins and and having had more time to actually run around in them.
Most of the problem here is a matter of perception.
Indeed, and if you perceive the cap of 15k to be some kind of balancing force that’s at all relevant, you’re staring at the sun.
The question is what percentage of that majority cares enough that they don’t get those ten achievement points every other day (assuming they don’t because it’s not that hard TO get them).
Actually I think it’s a significantly small percentage of the playerbase that can’t get 3 dailies as they’re laid out now.
there is currently a bug were you dont get damage when failing notes only when playing wrong notes and if you have that bug you dont get credit for right notes either…. I had that earlier today seems to have fixed it self by me hitting wrong note untill I got kicked out and then could get credit for right notes the next song.
I’ve had this bug. It’s annoying.
The new dailies would be easier to ignore if they wouldn’t be to glaringly visible. Let me hide them if I don’t want to do them instead of them only disappearing once I’ve done at least three.
This. You should be able to turn them off.
I honestly don’t think Anet will reverse the trait acquisition system. I’d be happy if they improved it…but it would have to be a significant improvement.
This is the problem I have with this argument and my problem with the argument hasn’t changed.
The reward you’re not getting that you would have got before is achievement points on which there is a cap.
That is to say, if you keep doing only the days you want, you’ll end up with the same achievement points eventually. Even if you skip a day, it’s unlikely in the old system, you’d have gotten ten points in a day. So it would probably cover two days worth. You can afford to skip every other day in the new system to be rewarded more than you were in the old system.
Most of the problem here is a matter of perception.
I’ll agree with the last sentence, though not necessarily with the rest of your thoughts.
The only players who’d even have the cap on their radar are those chasing the top of the leader boards. What’s more likely is that players who don’t give a fig about the boards do care about their next reward chest.
I’d think most people would be happy to have the higher rate. You make a fair point about absolute gain versus the old system (i.e., you can afford to miss a day and get the same number of AP as you got if you did minimum completion). However, I don’t think comparative progression is the root of the issue for some people.
Under the old system, if peoples’ preferences meant they only did three tasks that day, they got 3 AP. They made some progress. Complaints about dungeon dailies or the PvP mode dailies were rare (at least from the solo PvE players). I think the root of the complaints is the impact of the changes on a daily sense of progressing towards short term goals. The new system is not one that gets you 0 to 10 AP, it’s 0 or 10 AP. Partial completion nets no AP. If you opt out of two of the PvE options, no progress. I think that’s a big motivational factor that plays into the complaints about lack of choice in dailies.
There’s still more freedom, not less, if you can skip two days and only do 3 dailies on one. That’s where the perception comes in.
I don’t ever have to do dailies again, unless I want the specific rewards (which we never had before), or AP, which some people care about but many don’t.
As for the cap, it doesn’t matter, as I said. If you’re playign the game long term, you’ll eventually get it. There’s no longer a race. It’s just not that vital.
Dailies aren’t based per account, everyone gets the same ones every day. It’s why on ‘win with guardian’ day in PvP you’ll see 6/10 people in the hot join PvP matches playing guardian.
I’ve tested this, my brother gets the same dailies as I do… every… single… day. If it were based on ‘max level’ character on my account he should be getting different ones and I shouldn’t be getting so many starter zone ones for PvE. What is based on level, is how many you have to work with. 1-10 (sorry you have to play PvE, PvP, and WvW to get your daily). 11-something you get to pick 2 from one and 1 from the others. Something-something you get the option of completing daily from one catagory. Something-80 you get to pick 3 from any of them, with the option of not doing 1.
Unless you don’t have an 80th level character on your account. Then you get different dailies.
Obviously they don’t expect new players to do fractals when they only have 20th level characters. Those players do get different dailies. I know this because my wife has a new account and I’ve posted pics of her dailies in different threads.
Before you had to do dailies to get the bulk of the reward, now you get a better reward for not doing anything
Really? Where?
You have to be joking. If you add up the stuff in the rankup chest, you get more than you were getting before, just for logging in, in the same 28 day period…with the exception of achievement points.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Login_rewards
I don’t know about you, but I don’t remember ever getting tomes of knowledge just for logging in. On day 14 you get a piece of exotic equipment. When have you ever gotten that just for logging in?
Or how about on the 28th day when you get a permanent account side 2% increase to gold find?
And this is if you don’t even do the dailies.
The daily rewards are on top of the log in rewards.
Of course you’re alive. It’s not skipping you that kills them. I’ve come to understand that the new dailies are so grindy that it’s doing them that kills you.
This must be some strange usage of the word grindy I’d never previously been aware of.
Why is the bell choir such a chore, that’s my question. You need to complete a single song a day. Just one.
I’m not saying that the jumping puzzle is easy, but the bell choir? Should take you about ten minutes. Everything else is relatively easy.
Why should there not be one semi-diffucult thing. It’s not like you have to complete the entire series of songs to get credit for the daily.
It really isn’t that hard.
This thread should probably be stickied. Thanks for the heads up!
I want to know how come there are two negative categories, but only one positive category. It’s automatically biased, even if it’s cliche. That said:
Lots of things I loved this year, including the Wardrobe, the new dailies, Drytop and Silverwastes, the NPE (Yes I prefer it to the old system), the megaserver (probably did more to save the game for me than any other change), pvp reward tracks, EoTM, the account binding of commander tags and WvW XP (and dyes for that matter), Escape from Lion’s Arch, the improved combat log, and some of the skins and some of the UI changes particularly in regards to inventory that I’ve particularly liked.
The real negatives for me (I feel no need to separate them into bad and ugly) is the new trait system, which has slow my leveling of alts to a crawl, the changes to the end of the personal story, lack of communication with regards to some sort of road map for the future.
This is a filthy lie. It is a well known fact that if you skip dailies, the earth’s orbit will start to decay and if enough people skip them, the Earth with plummet into the sun, wiping out the entire human race, possibly before we get to see the end of Season 2.
So for the love of all things holy, NEVER EVER skip a daily.
Someone above me already pointed this out, but it’s worth bringing it up again: this is a classic example of Arena Net refusing to give us something without also taking something away. More options for PvP/WvW that don’t interfere with their usual choice of play? More power too you! I’m all for it! Applause and confetti everywhere!
But why, why does adding that in mean that PvE players had to have their options gutted?
And those of you who argue that the system is trying to “move players into content they may not normally play/haven’t tried before.” I find this to be incredibly condescending and incredibly insulting (both from the players saying this and from the devs who may or may not be thinking this way).
This. One more example of Anet taking away choice and trying to force players to play what Anet wants them to play. As I said in another thread: I will only do dailies if I like them, this won’t force me to do things I don’t like. If I feel that I’m not earning Achievement Points at a reasonable rate, maybe I’ll just quit the game. No, not only because of achievement points, but because this is yet another nail in the “play the way you want” coffin.
If those 10 points a day are going to make or break you, you were leaving the game anyway. If they’re that important to you, they’re easy to get. If they’re not that important to you, it doesn’t matter.
Before you had to do dailies to get the bulk of the reward, now you get a better reward for not doing anything, thus freeing you up to do anything you want to do. The dailies are now there for those who really want them.
The ‘perceived’ lack of choice was more apparent in yesterday’s daily. Two out of the four PvE dailies were for Fractals. If you don’t Fractal (or PvP or WvW) then you’re screwed. No daily for you.
This is the problem I have with this argument and my problem with the argument hasn’t changed.
The reward you’re not getting that you would have got before is achievement points on which there is a cap.
That is to say, if you keep doing only the days you want, you’ll end up with the same achievement points eventually. Even if you skip a day, it’s unlikely in the old system, you’d have gotten ten points in a day. So it would probably cover two days worth. You can afford to skip every other day in the new system to be rewarded more than you were in the old system.
Most of the problem here is a matter of perception.