Guild Wars 2

Artanis.4963:

IndigoSundown.5419:

As long as the income exceeds the outgo.

The word you are looking for is expenses. Outgo isn’t a word.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/outgo

Drytop is tier 4 most times I go there and I hit a tier 5 yesterday.

I’ve said, a few times now, that I think that Anet is waiting to release information till the time is right to maximize attention.

Those following the forums are going to hear anything anyway, but if Anet wants to grow the game, they’ve got to appeal to more than just followers of the game.

So they wait until the hype over the WoW expansion is done. They wait until a show like PAX to maximize exposure. Or the ten year anniversary. One of those two things. Something with more coverage, that brings more people to the game, as well as people back to the game.

I guess we’ll see in January if this is the time, but my money is still on April for some big announcement.

Mikali.9651:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Carighan.6758:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Irrc, one of the devs involved commented that players did not even seem to notice.

I also fail to see how your changes being so organic people don’t even consciously notice is a bad thing.

I mean, consider if every patch changes a dozen events. Consider that individually, like moving your colleague’s desk by half a millimeter, this is pretty much unnoticeable.
Yet a year later, you all of a sudden stop and realize “Wait, this all used to be totally different a year ago, wasn’t it?!” and start to ask in guild chat, players realizing that wow, tons and tons of events must have changed, there’s entirely different chains and stories now. Much like your colleague is wondering why he’s sitting on the other end of the room.

Good point.

But…

People say that ANet pays no attention to what players say (or don’t say, in this case).

The problem is, all this feels like RPG game, getting patches and modes for it.

There is nothing mmorpg in this LS, thats the problem.
In mmorpg you team up with others, you are the one who is in journey and you are the hero, you are central figure who gets help from others.
Not just some bystander.

LS story is all fine and well, but that isnt mmorpg, its rpg. That is why I dont enjoy it.
I wanna play with OTHERS, not cuz I’m lonely, but cuz I have to! Cuz it’s hard content for just one player.

You know, to feel like Im playing with players, and not just NPCs.

This game is such NPCS+AI Wars 2.
Seriously, too many ai in classes, too many npcs in pve.

I think Silverwastes and Drytop, both of which came with the Living Story, are both zones that require a lot of participation to maximize your rewards. The instances that come with it can be done solo or with people. But the zones that came with it are good MMO zones.

They require cooperation to max rewards, but even without cooperation you can get something done.

Out of curiosity what server are you on?

Vix.6730:

Andred.1087:

I fully expect to now be labelled as a “white knight”

If the cape fits, wear it. Your shots at the community did give me a chuckle, thank you. But sadly your post reeked of bias and envy, which leads me to believe you’re simply here to troll. I’d counter some of your other far-fetched claims but I prefer to reside in the realm of fact-based arguments supported by reference.

Here’s some tasty tidbits you:

GW2
19.68 biln Won
-6.6 % QoQ; -20% YoY
Still strong performance in NA/EU
Performance in China is weaker than expected.
more aggressive marketing and updates are planned to expand the playerbase
From conference call: " The game is now two years old. And therefore in the not too far future we do think that we will have an opportunity to show our plans about expansion packs for this game"

Link to the report: http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspx#none
Stream Conference call: http://cast.calltogether.co.kr/ncsoft/2014_3Q/index.html

Did you see what I did there Andred? I backed up my statement with facts . Sales are down, the game is stale and the people in the position to green light an expansion have either done so already or plan on doing it in the not too far future.

Just in case you’re still having trouble getting the point: an expansion is coming . The masses were right to complain and criticize and outline ideas of what should be developed. The others (you) were wrong to defend a game in its current state, knowing full well the Living Story isn’t up to the task of replacing a full-on expansion.

Facts are not all equal. There are some serious missing factors in your facts, or other facts that you neglect to take into account. Profits being down isn’t the same as sales being down. The change from the relative position from the Won to the US dollar due alter how much the game is down, but that’s not even the biggest mistake you make.

It is absolutely 100% expected for game sales to be down over time for almost every game every released. Every company creates a business plan. That business plan includes, for games especially, heavy front loading in profit. You have to sell enough in the first months to generate enough income to pay for the years of the development.

Guild Wars 2 has met expectations for each and every quarter. The evidence is, if you don’t meet expectations, people get laid off as happened with the rest of NcSoft West, but notably not Anet.

Saying the game has less profit means absolutely nothing without knowing the expectations in the business plan.

For the record, I always thought an expansion (or expansion type content) is in the works anyway. I think it would be a bad mistake if it’s not. But quoting numbers without knowing the expectations is taking a fact and trying to make it fit your personal pet theory. It can’t really be done.

Now if NcSoft West laid off people and Wildstar Laid off people and Anet did not (but is instead hiring people), anyone that has a modicum of business experience might be tempted to think that the company is meeting expectations…which is all a company usually needs to do.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

So OP in answer to your question, it seems like a lot of people do want Season 3. Including me.

A post full of negative opinions…

“The opinions expressed in this thread are those of the vocal minority.”

A post full of positive opinions…

“See, everyone likes it!”

If you look at the phrasing of the OP, it’s an assumption of negativity. I don’t know (nor does anyone) who has a majority. I’ve said this many, many times.

I do not believe that a majority of people would rather have the LS than an expansion….but I just don’t know.

However, that has nothing to do with how the OP phrased his attack, and make no mistake, it was an attack.

It’s so easy to ask “Do people actually want a third season” as opposed to Does anyone “really” want it. There’s obvious bias in the OP and I commented on it.

I’m not sure why that’s worthy of comment. Of course, when I comment on anything that’s overtly negative, the entire band wagon of people who don’t like the game for one reason or another have to comment on it.

What I said was completely true, and not unreasonable. The fact that you feel you have to comment on it shows your own bias.

Plenty of people seem to want Season 3. I never claimed they were a majority.

Edit: I almost never use the word vocal minority. I’d be very surprised if you could find a time when I did use it. Maybe you have me confused with someone else.

DaShi.1368:

Everyone has a right to comment. However, you shouldn’t criticize others for their bias, when you are being just as biased yourself.

If everyone has a right to comment, and I’m someone then I have a right to comment. If you have a problem with my posts feel free to contact a moderator. I won’t be responding to any further posts from you, for obvious reasons.

DaShi.1368:

Vayne.8563:

SkylightMoon.1980:

Vayne.8563:

So OP in answer to your question, it seems like a lot of people do want Season 3. Including me.

lol oh vayne, you and your white knighting. Thanks I can read. What I actually here is that people want another season if it includes actual expansion sized content. Whether that be having an expansion introduce the new season, or having the full team at Anet work on the living story since apparently a lot arn’t right now.

Many people however are jaded by the living story just because of the results its given. It hasn’t matched the large content promises its made for 2 years.

Maybe I wouldn’t have to “white knight” if people asked fair questions instead of leading ones. Did you even look at the title of your post. The assumption when you use the word “even” is that no one wants it.

Some people do want it. Using that kind of negative language makes you the opposite of a white knight and no better.

Everyone wants more content. I want more content too. But I don’t really see what they means people don’t want season three.

Try being more fair minded, instead of being on the attack. Because calling me a white knight means nothing if you’re going to be so negative. You’re just the other side of the same coin.

Dude, you’re in no place to criticize. You posted a poll that had an extremely small sample that you personally selected and claimed it made your point. Then when it was shared with more people and overwhelmingly went the other way, you claimed it was invalid. Try being more fair-minded, yourself. You blatantly reinterpreted other people’s posts in this occasion.

I want more content too. But if it is like LS 1 or 2, then it’ll just be another bore. Drop the story. Just give us content.

Actually I have every right to criticize. People on these forums use language to try to discredit and SHOULD be called on it. It really should be against forum rules.

The fact that you’re one of those people means that anything you say on this topic should be taken with a very large grain of salt.

You’re too partisan to comment.

Danikat.8537:

Here’s my list, in no particular order:

No subscription
This is a big one. I could afford a subscription game, but I’d feel pressured to play it to justify the price. This month would be a nightmare for me – I’m away for 2 (non-consecutive) weeks but I want to play in between, so I’d also have to pay for all that time I’m not using. With GW2 I don’t have to worry.

No stat treadmill
Yes there is grind in this game, but not for things you have to have to play. When I got to level 80 I got a set of exotic gear pretty much straight away with karma I’d saved up. Then within a month I did both the newly released Flame and Frost dungeon and Arah path 2. In a lot of MMOs that wouldn’t be an option. A newly max level character couldn’t go and do the final dungeon in the game, they’d have to do all the others first to get the other equipment tiers in between.

Along the same lines I’m still using some of that same gear now, almost 2 years later, and it’s still basically the top tier (yes there’s ascended, but that’s a very minor improvement).

No Pay-to-win
Sure you can buy gems, convert them to gold and use it to buy exotics, or even legendary weapons. But there is nothing you can get by spending real money that you can’t get relatively easily without spending anything. I have spent money in the gem store, but always for novelty items, I’ve never felt like I had to in order to keep playing.

Cooperative PvE
I realise this will sound like I’m paraphrasing Anet’s promotion of the game, but I really like that I don’t have to worry about other people around me in PvE because they can’t, deliberately or accidentally, screw up my game. They can delay me slightly, for example if reviving NPCs counts towards a heart and they revive one before I get there, but it’s relatively rare. I don’t have to worry about them stealing my kills or loot or me stealing theirs, or messing up their events. At worst I’m indifferent to other people, quite often I’m actually happy to see a random stranger come along because I know they’re going to help me, without me having to say or do anything to persuade them. (Sure it’s for their own interest, because they want to complete the event or whatever, but that’s the beauty of it, two people playing in the same area totally independently are also helping each other.)

Generally friendly community
This partially stems from the above, but I think the players deserve credit too. There are exceptions of course (come on, it’s the internet) but it’s nice that on the whole people are friendly and civil to each other.

The art style
I try not to make graphics a priority for me with games, especially because then it limits the replayability over the years. But I do love the art style in this game, it’s a wonderful mix of realism and something like an oil painting (a slightly impressionist one too, which is a style I like). There’s been many times I’ve just stopped in the middle of what I was doing to admire the scenery.

It’s fun
The combat especially. There’s been more than a few times I’ve been genuinely excited during a battle not so much because of the end result as because the process itself is enjoyable. The combination of movement and the variety of attacks makes it exciting to play through even fairly routine fights. Although I much prefer it when a boss has special mechanics that make it distinct from normal enemies.

It’s like you read my mind. This is about as close to my list without me actually typing it.

Elyssa.8307:

So today you need a lvl 80 character because two of the choices are orr vista or jormag… yeah, what about the people just starting up?

Also it’s so lame to try hunt for events… it’s frustrating! suddenly 250 players in snowden drifts! If there were many options to choose from and you did’nt have to do the pathetic event run it’d be okay.

new systems just sucks currently.

Players without 80s on their account get different dailies.

Today on a new account my wife got a krytan vista and SB, instead of an Orrian Vista and Jormag.

tigirius.9014:

Andred.1087:

“I propose I’m right and you’re wrong so there, deal with it.”

You’re gonna have to do a little better than that. People have also stated they love the changes, and want to see more like it, so where is your argument exactly?

Some of us left because of the issues with NPE still affecting veteran alts as well as the fact that once again we receive a promise for a goal that’s not being touched or handled at that to the pile of promised made 9 months ago as well as those never implemented in the first place and well you can see where this is going. Call us when integrity becomes a priority will you? Because until then, making it seem like people are crazy because we value integrity and ethics in all business practices just makes your replies look silly.

Some people don’t know the definition of the word promise and trot it out at pretty much any moment to try to prove a point.

The NPE is fine. You get through most of the worst of it in two hours. The trait system not so much, but the NPE?

This is truly truly a storm in a teacup.

HtFde.3856:

Vayne.8563:

That’s the most ridiculous thing you’ve said. Play the way you want doesn’t mean every single weapon is going to be as effective as every other in every situation. That’s ridiculous.

The professions are designed with multiple weapons for a reason. I don’t know a lot of people who melee the Fire Elemental. Why? Because if you stand on top of him he burns you to death. That’s the game part. Figuring out what works.

The first part was from me but you replied to someone else’s reply then … are dailies now on part with world bosses/champs?

And – trust me on this one – when there’s 5 level 80 necros who have put their marks on the spawn zone and 5 level 80 eles who use staff 2/fire on that spot your little arrow is still in the air (if you’re a warrior) when there is nothing to hit anymore.

Of course people do weapon swap (after they’re level 15 – beofre that they can’t) and most people do carry s full set of weapons but the situation is different in the low level zones:

Monster health does not scale, monster amount does not scale.

I can go bow warrior in Frostgorge or Orr and get registered for every event – why? – because monsters live long enough so that my slooow arrow will still hit them and if it hits it does enough damage. Not so in level 15 – 40 zones, though, as – like I said – my arrow is still in the air when the monsters are already dead.

The problem could be solved very easily (and without tweaking the low level event code) by being less specific and make it 4 events in Kryta instead of 4 events in Queensdale.

I’m not saying that scaling doesn’t need tweaking. In fact, I’ve said scaling does need tweaking.

But saying that this is a play how you want issue is ridiculous. You can always play how you want, but if it’s not working for you and you don’t alter your play for a few minutes to get a specific result, I’m a whole lot less sympathetic.

I used to play with a warrior in Guild Wars 1 who insisted on using an elite hammer skill that did knock down..even when we were going into a jotun dungeon, with Jotun who were immune to knockdown. Complete waste of an elite for that dungeon.

But she likes the skill and refused to change it. I didn’t have much sympathy her her when people refused to take her along.

This isn’t much different. My comment was on the play how you want comment, not yours. Sorry for any confusion.

I don’t like layers or shards. Eigenstate would be more appropriate. lol

If you’re playing open world content or doing dungeons casually with friends or a casual guild, you can pretty much do anything. PvP is a bit less forgiving. For that you do need some decent build.

However, making those builds and getting the gear you need isn’t really that hard.

Of every MMO Ive played, this is the only one I know you can leave for a year, come back and play content with the guild without upgrading at all.

Grim.1306:

Not read the whole thread. Just making my few observations known. Also never posted on your forum in the 2yrs that I’ve had accounts with you, until the last 24hrs.

I talked 3 friends into getting the game recently, At the time the dailies were behaving quite well.

None of my friends are currently interested in PvP and none of them are over lvl 30, but it was fine, the dailies were behaving. Until today.

Claw of Jormag and Orr Vista viewer… really?

While I’ve never supported the ‘dumbing down’ of the game in any way, Way to go with the new player experience.

Also, the old system did not create the constant “event pls?” spam or the zerg groups that frustrate the people genuinely doing map completion in those zones.

Did anyone ever complain that the old system needed changing?

That’s all

Your friends got different dalies. On a new account, my wife got kryta vista viewer today, not Orr Vista viewer.

I’ve posted screenshots twice before showing the different dailies new accounts get.

And instead of the Claw you get SB.

In front of the dungeon where all the minis are hanging out.

Djinn.9245:

Vayne.8563:

HtFde.3856:

The “do 4 events in” are a bad design – all it leads to are overcrowded maps and frustrated melee players who see enemies melt ebfore they have even spawned – add to this that in low level areas events to not scale properly – so you have still like 5 grawl in stage II of the ice shaman regardless of the 50+ players …

As a melee it is very hard to score a hit so that you get recognized for the event and for new players it is next to impossible to get recognized because a true level 5 does way less damage than a fully geared downscaled level 80.

So it would be better to have things spread out (like with the vista or the mining) and make it "do 4 events in the Shiverpeaks, Kryta, etc.) which would not lead to all that clustering.

I don’t suppose you could not melee for the span of four events? I don’t. Even on melee characters. I use a staff on my guardian and a bow on my warrior. My thieves use a bow or a pistol with ricchochet. It works fine.

First: so play a different way than you want, huh? That’s the answer? Figures.

However, some people can’t even get to an event that pops up right in their map area before geared vets with speed get there first and kill everything. The problem is the events being limited to a single zone, not what weapons people are using.

That’s the most ridiculous thing you’ve said. Play the way you want doesn’t mean every single weapon is going to be as effective as every other in every situation. That’s ridiculous.

The professions are designed with multiple weapons for a reason. I don’t know a lot of people who melee the Fire Elemental. Why? Because if you stand on top of him he burns you to death. That’s the game part. Figuring out what works.

If everything worked in every single situation, there would be no game. In the same way no one has said I can’t melee the Fire Ele, people shouldn’t complain that they have to range to get credit for an event. Hell you don’t even have to do it for the entire event. You have to get some hits to get credit. The game has a weapon swap. It’s easy to do.

Play the way you want as proposed by Anet has absolutely 100% nothing to do with what you’re saying.

But you can actually play the way you want. You’d just be silly to complain because the solution is already in the game.

SkylightMoon.1980:

Vayne.8563:

So OP in answer to your question, it seems like a lot of people do want Season 3. Including me.

lol oh vayne, you and your white knighting. Thanks I can read. What I actually here is that people want another season if it includes actual expansion sized content. Whether that be having an expansion introduce the new season, or having the full team at Anet work on the living story since apparently a lot arn’t right now.

Many people however are jaded by the living story just because of the results its given. It hasn’t matched the large content promises its made for 2 years.

Maybe I wouldn’t have to “white knight” if people asked fair questions instead of leading ones. Did you even look at the title of your post. The assumption when you use the word “even” is that no one wants it.

Some people do want it. Using that kind of negative language makes you the opposite of a white knight and no better.

Everyone wants more content. I want more content too. But I don’t really see what they means people don’t want season three.

Try being more fair minded, instead of being on the attack. Because calling me a white knight means nothing if you’re going to be so negative. You’re just the other side of the same coin.

A lot of people feel that by gating things, Anet has made the game more like other MMOs. What they’re ignoring is that many of the things that are gated were already gated anyway and just the level changed, so if it wasn’t generic before it’s not generic now.

If you right click on it and store it in your vault, you destroy it, and thus it is unlocked. It can then be used on every character.

The skin is locked not minis.

Edit: If you double click on it you can use it without unlocking it, but then it has to be in your character’s inventory.

The NPE doesn’t make the game generic. Saying it does shows a lack of understanding of the word.

All it changes is the speed at which things are acquired, and some of it only the first time you level a character.

The rest of it doesn’t change the game. All the same stuff is still in place. There’s nothing generic about it.

If you want to complain it’s limiting go right ahead. By saying it makes the game generic is just plain wrong.

So OP in answer to your question, it seems like a lot of people do want Season 3. Including me.

Deamhan.9538:

The Skinner Box. They got it down quite well. I’d say one of the best at it.

It’s actually not a skinner box. The skinner box requires you to get loot often enough to keep coming back, like WoW raids.

This is not quite the skinner box model. You should read up on it more.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Something naughteblonde posted crystallized something that’s been floating elusively about at the back of my brain for a while as discussion of the new dailies has gone on.

Daily achievements are a form of structure. The old ones provided somewhat less structure. The new ones provide somewhat more. The restrictions (i.e., the greater amount of structure) in the new dailies is primarily where you have to go to complete them.

Players in general use the dailies as a form of structure. That structure serves as motivation to play. Some people don’t mind the restriction in area within the daily structure. Some do. While that latter group can still go to the area of their choice and do the things they did before, there is now less structure in doing so. And, if they were using the old dailies as motivation (“Hey, I’ll get a reward!”), that’s now gone.

Thus, in order to continue playing where they want to, they have to provide their own motivation. For some, that’s not working out so well. Others will adjust over time, but are complaining in hopes their preferred structure will be reinstated.

I’ve actually always used dailies as structure, even before the change. Probably why it doesn’t bother me as much as some.

Pinkamena Diane Pie.8054:

Do you know how badly this game is doing?

The real reason for megaservers was to merge to populations because if they didnt the server specific maps would have been empty! That is how many players have left the game!
If an expansion comes out, how many will buy it? How long will it keep those who do buy it, in the game?
WvW populations have fallen dramatically as well, where there was once queues on all 4 maps, you only see 1 map queued to 50+ as all players try to join the zerg, cos there are only roamers on the other maps doing very little.

If an expansion doesnt come out, more people will leave the game
If one does come out, some players will continue playing for a while until they have finished one or two run throughs.

But what we all know for certain is that they “cannot talk about it”.

Not to mention the fact that every game, including WoW has had problems with underpopulated zones.

So I don’t think underpopulated zones means anything at all…unless you claim that WoW isn’t doing well.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

To the people who shoot these threads down, what would you prefer people do? Leave, give ANet no indication as to why, and let the game gradually lose players while ANet takes wild stabs in the dark at how to maintain users?

If a person has left, and has given information as to why, they have provided a service to the rest of us who might benefits from future game improvements because of it (unless we operate on the assumption that ANet completely ignores the reasons people leave).

People leave games all the time. I do mean all the time. Sometimes they leave for legitimate reasons. Sometimes they leave because an existing game simply doesn’t cater to their playstyle (and sometimes it never intended to). Sometimes they leave because they’re taking their ball and going home.

Not every leaving post gets the same reaction. Someone may well leave the game for the reasons the OP stated, but since they really are L2P reasons, I don’t think this particular post will affect or change anything.

Which is why it’s getting the reaction it’s getting.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Except we were talking originally about the mechanics that make the game unique, not the content. The feel of all of the cooperative PvE stuff in one game at one time…by design.

Nope, didn’t specify that

Still incredibly generic zone with incredibly generic events, and it only harms the game by existing. Would be much better off with a starter zone like the norn have.

. . . they get wolves.

No other game has put all this stuff in one box…with the idea of making PvE a completely cooperative experience. No other game has abandoned the standard quest hub architecture in favor of dynamic events. Rift went half way, but didn’t have the bottle to go all the way. As a result,. dynamic events in Rift were more of a side show than a main course.

Define “completely cooperative” since, well, there is still a somewhat uncooperative aspect to PvE here. It’s called the zerg vs late stragglers.

“Hey guys, is Maw up? What do you mean just finished?”

I defined it higher up.

But you know this stuff anyone and you’re just being silly now, and you know it. lol

Anyone can rez anyone without using a skill slot.
The downed state
Combo Fields (forgot about that above)
Everyone who participates gets credit for kills and events
No one can steal your node
You don’t have to party with people to buff them or heal them or remove their conditions

Surely you’ve played other MMOs where someone tagged something you were going for and you had to wait for it to respawn. Or someone yelled at you for tagging their kill. Or someone gathered something while you were fighting the creature in front of it.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

If you think you can take one single zone and build an argument about this game being generic around it, go ahead.

We can let readers make up their minds about that argument.

Challenge accepted.

Queensdale makes the game generic. It’s all about humanity and how they need to oppress everything they see, even each other, which is something we always see in games like this. Human empire-building at the cost of the nonhuman races. Everything is just so bland, happy, optimistic for humanity to get started reclaiming their land. Of course, they never do, they just repeat the same cycle over and over again getting kicked out of their farms, kicking out the centaurs, having the occasional Eldritch Abomination rise out of the swamp (how original is that anyway?) . . .

Seriously, pathetically generic area reminiscent of the Karana Plains of Norrath. Though at least there the centaurs weren’t rage beasts on hooves all the time . . . and the tengu didn’t care about anyone.

Except we were talking originally about the mechanics that make the game unique, not the content. The feel of all of the cooperative PvE stuff in one game at one time…by design.

No other game has put all this stuff in one box…with the idea of making PvE a completely cooperative experience. No other game has abandoned the standard quest hub architecture in favor of dynamic events. Rift went half way, but didn’t have the bottle to go all the way. As a result,. dynamic events in Rift were more of a side show than a main course.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

That’s all nice and stuff Vayne.

But you have four bases on a map.

Those four bases have the same quests: Take base, defend base, gather ressources, protect ressources. On a non-stop schedule. This is generic. You could just copy and paste five more bases on the map with the same events, wouldn’t make a difference as it is generic. Taking one base out? Noone would miss it.

Of course there are only that many kinds of quests, but copy and paste bases and spread them over the map. I would call that lazy and lame.

Orr didn’t feel like this, nor did any other vanilla zone. Sure, sometimes you got a deja vu feeling, but never like being trapped in a treadmill.

And this is exactly what Silverwastes offers. It is like you read Romeo and Juliet and every chapter was the same. This zone is predictable. Which makes it feel static, which makes it generic. Some random quests here or there won’t help, especially not if they are the same all over the map too.

Yes that map has a theme. That’s the theme of that map. Not really hard to understand. The map before that is Dry Top. Can you find a great number of similarities between Dry Top and Silverwastes?

The Maze and Jumping puzzle in Silverwastes are both like nothing else in the game by the way.

If you think you can take one single zone and build an argument about this game being generic around it, go ahead.

We can let readers make up their minds about that argument.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

No Vayne, you are grasping for a straw. So hard, that every minor difference makes GW2 something unique.

With your interpretation, every game is unique, which makes unique a meaningless term.

GW2, from it’s very core to most of its design desicions is nothing new or unique. Not as a game, not as an MMO. The two feature patches just made the game more generic, with traits being locked and NPE as a system.

Sorry.

No, I’m not grasping at straws.

I’ve yet to see any MMO that has gone so far out of its way to make PvE a cooperative (rather than a competitive experience). WoW didn’t do it. Lotro didn’t do it. DDO didn’t do it. ESO didn’t do it. SWToR didn’t do it.

While you can say over and over again that this game is generic, there are far too many threads of people who come from other games, who have played many MMOs who can’t figure this game out. They don’t get it. Not one or two threads, but dozens.

And if that’s the case, then this game has to be different. Different enough to cause those problems.

And maybe that’s your problem. You’re trying to play this like a traditional MMO and don’t see that it really is different.

Go to the Silverwastes.

Defend one of the forts. Defend another one. Do so at all of them. It is the same all over the map. Generic.
Defend a pack bulls. Count how many different event mobs will spawn. Defend another one, look for variation. Generic.

The longer GW2 continues to exist, the more generic this game becomes. The new map is a nice example, how they change the DE’s towards a quest grind. Nothing feels random, or that it just happened when you got there. You could have gotten this feeling around release, but this non-stop event cycle is just as generic as it gets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_%28video_gaming%29

Those are quests in video games. There aren’t that many types. That’s not what makes game unique or not unique.

Romeo and Juliet has the same story as West Side Story but no one would say that West Side Story is a copy of Romeo and Juliet. The difference is in how it’s presented.

Saying that the Silverwastes have X number of types of quests is meaningless. Not just a little meaningless. 100% meaningless.

There are only limited numbers of types of stories. Every single writer knows this. Nothing was done in game of thrones that hasn’t been done in dozens of other books, but Game of Thrones is unique. Because of the way the author combined the components to make his own thing.

There are X numbers of words in the English language, but only a tiny percentage of them are used in most books. It doesn’t mean books aren’t unique.

Honestly if that’s the best you have to offer, you should probably stop arguing.

Quests in all games are based on the same few archetypes. There are still unique games out there.

Edit: By the way, this conversation didn’t even start with the word unique, the bar was changed during the conversation. You used the word generic. There’s a long long road from generic to unique. It’s not a pass/fail state.

I’ve yet to play an immersive MMO.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

No Vayne, you are grasping for a straw. So hard, that every minor difference makes GW2 something unique.

With your interpretation, every game is unique, which makes unique a meaningless term.

GW2, from it’s very core to most of its design desicions is nothing new or unique. Not as a game, not as an MMO. The two feature patches just made the game more generic, with traits being locked and NPE as a system.

Sorry.

No, I’m not grasping at straws.

I’ve yet to see any MMO that has gone so far out of its way to make PvE a cooperative (rather than a competitive experience). WoW didn’t do it. Lotro didn’t do it. DDO didn’t do it. ESO didn’t do it. SWToR didn’t do it.

While you can say over and over again that this game is generic, there are far too many threads of people who come from other games, who have played many MMOs who can’t figure this game out. They don’t get it. Not one or two threads, but dozens.

And if that’s the case, then this game has to be different. Different enough to cause those problems.

And maybe that’s your problem. You’re trying to play this like a traditional MMO and don’t see that it really is different.

nethykins.7986:

SkyShroud.2865:

— snip —

If you have played many f2p MMORPGs, you will then understand what it really means by grindy. Gw2 is nothing in comparison.

I have tried many F2P, B2P and P2P. Though to say gw2 is not the worst, shouldn’t dismiss there are parts of the game you can label as “grindy”.
As I said – “There’s enough to establish a lot of parts of the game as grindy”

There is certainly optional grind. But you can do virtually all the content without grinding. Grind isn’t necessary unless you want a specific skin or a specific reward.

@Kaiyanwan.8521

Personal story and living story are not traditional questing, because they are completely instanced. Furthermore, you can’t level with just the personal story. You’re making excuses to defend a point, so let me spell it out for you.

I went into Rift. It had dynamic events, like you said. Okay they weren’t chained together, like this. They didn’t have different pass fail states. But they did have DEs. But the mainstay of the game was still the traditional quest hub system.

Before launch, up to the 4th beta, dynamic events in Rift stayed until players took care of them (much like Guild Wars 2). But due to complaints, Trion had to change that. Why? Because quest hubs were taken over and people couldn’t cash in their quest rewards if no one else was around. People literally had their progress halted. The existence of quest hubs in the open world completely gutted their dynamic event system (such as it was).

What you have here is different because the open world has no quest hubs. Saying the personal story is like quest hubs isn’t just disingenuous. It’s completely wrong. It’s nothing like a quest hub. And the traditional leveling quests in traditional games are traditionally not instanced. The living story is something else completely and even that’s different, because different races have multiple paths. A human warrior can have three different sets of adventures up to level 10 and 3 different sets of adventures from 10-20. Again it’s different. It’s NOT traditional questing.

Hearts aren’t traditional questing either, because not only are their multiple ways to complete almost all of them, but you don’t have to complete most of them by doing them at all…you can do a dynamic event nearby and fill most of them in that way.

And if you never ever ever did a single heart, you could level without them.

I don’t know many games where you could do the same event in Queensdale over and over and nothing else and get to max level.

This game is different. The combination of things is different. You’re one of the few people who don’t acknowledge this.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

First of all, saying that pressing one because they took out the trinity works is technically not true in all cases, only in most of the open world. However, even if that’s the case, it still is different from other games. Being able to do a dungeon with 5 rangers or 5 eles or 5 mesmers is something new and different. I don’t see people spamming looking for healer or tank here. It may not be to your liking. It may not even be good (that’s opinion) but it IS different. Which is all I’m saying.

I don’t care if you think text based quests are better or not, because it’s not relevant to the point. Different IS different. I find the questing here more organic and the text based quests of quest hub games to be more contrived. Again you might like one better than another, but even you’re agreeing it’s different.

You can’t have it both ways, You can’t say it’s different (for better or worse) and then say it’s generic. If it’s the same it can’t be worse and if its’ different (even if it’s worse) it’s not generic. You’ve contradicted yourself.

You can turn off the arrows and map markers in this game and play it. I have. It’s a lot of fun.

Downscaling is something most MMOs don’t have. Everyone being able to rez everyone without using a skill slot of something most games don’t have. The inability to steal nodes or kills is something most games don’t have. The downed state is something most games don’t have. And the combination of all those is something no other MMORPG has, period.

Which is my book makes this game unique.

STO has done most of this before GW2.

DE like encounters on the star map – check.
Whatever class combination can succeed together – check.
Downscaling – check.
Pressing one (left mouse button), no need for trinity – check.
Random exploring with random encounters without quest – check.
Anyone can rezz anyone at any time – check.
No need to group – check.

OK, downstate was not in STO. You got me.

And which of those “games that have done this before” have removed traditional questing in favor of it?

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Vayne.8563:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.

They removed the trinity so everyone can spam 1 and succeed. Quests and quest hubs are not a bad thing, if they succeed to tell a good story. Better than getting a marker on your map, running there, kill everything and wait for the next marker on the map. At least with quests you have a story and some emotion while you do stuff.

And you are partly right. LS episode 1 was unique, and it was a unique and predictable failure in MMO history, that is why this style of LS has been canceled by ANet.
Episode 2 is just like what? Running from A to B having an instance here and there? This sound like the most basic quest system ever. Wow, Anet has invented quests. It is a 100% copy of LotRO books. Not impressed. How can you call that unique?

First of all, saying that pressing one because they took out the trinity works is technically not true in all cases, only in most of the open world. However, even if that’s the case, it still is different from other games. Being able to do a dungeon with 5 rangers or 5 eles or 5 mesmers is something new and different. I don’t see people spamming looking for healer or tank here. It may not be to your liking. It may not even be good (that’s opinion) but it IS different. Which is all I’m saying.

I don’t care if you think text based quests are better or not, because it’s not relevant to the point. Different IS different. I find the questing here more organic and the text based quests of quest hub games to be more contrived. Again you might like one better than another, but even you’re agreeing it’s different.

You can’t have it both ways, You can’t say it’s different (for better or worse) and then say it’s generic. If it’s the same it can’t be worse and if its’ different (even if it’s worse) it’s not generic. You’ve contradicted yourself.

You can turn off the arrows and map markers in this game and play it. I have. It’s a lot of fun.

Downscaling is something most MMOs don’t have. Everyone being able to rez everyone without using a skill slot of something most games don’t have. The inability to steal nodes or kills is something most games don’t have. The downed state is something most games don’t have. And the combination of all those is something no other MMORPG has, period.

Which is my book makes this game unique.

As other have said, different guilds have different rules. My guild, as an example, is ultra casual. We have no rep requirement. We have no real participation requirement. We have pretty much one requirement which is to be nice to each other. That’s pretty much all the rules I can stomach. lol

The thing is, there are guilds that have participation requirements. There are guilds that have rules like if you’re going away for more than a couple of weeks, post on the website. That sort of thing.

You have to learn the rules of the guild you joined. If they have a website they may be posted there, but asking here isn’t going to get you anywhere.

Seireitou.9807:

Ty Josh for basically summing the game up totally for me man.

Would you say that its worth for me to try and max a lvl 80 character before quitting to really give this game a chance?

I’d max a character, since you don’t unlock the highest level traits until you do. And there are fun things to do at max level.

Welcome to Guild Wars 2 and glad you’re having fun.

The people who don’t like the game so much should be along to try to ruin your fun though. They’ll tell you to wait until you hit level cap or wait until X or wait until Y and then you’ll see.

I’m playing since day one and still having fun…every day.

Djinn.9245:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ashen.2907:

Neural.1824:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I did the dailies. Because I felt like it. And hey, I survived too!

So toxic sarcasm is acceptable here, so long as your opinion supports current game mechanics. Good to know.

It kind of looks like she was just posting in the same lighthearted vein as the OP to me.

Yes, Ashen, you’re right. I view this thread as a lighthearted thread, not intended to “bash” anyone. Some do the new dailies. Some don’t. Some don’t like them. Some do. It’s all good. We have a thread for serious discussion of the topic, but this one is pretty darn funny. One of my faves so far: “I skipped breakfast.”

Neural — this really isn’t toxic. It’s sarcy and it’s saucy, but toxic it is not.

When an entire forum thread is aimed at making fun of a group of concerned players, I view that as toxic. When the forum manager supports making fun of that same group of concerned players, I find that deplorable.

When people on a forum can dish it out and can’t take it, I say it’s time for a break from the forums.

I take more heat than anyone else on these forums. This was relatively light hearted, but the truth is, dailies isn’t the game, dailies was never the game and the achievement points people lose each day…isn’t the game.

I don’t see why people can’t take a light hearted look at something that’s relatively minor.

I don’t see why people have to be so sensitive. I don’t think most people care enough to make this a red button issue. I think as many people who do care like it, rather than hate it. And the thin skin I’m seeing here doesn’t further your cause.

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And if there is no expansion, why doesn’t Gaile or another dev swoop in to say “sorry folks, there’s no expansion in the work” in all these expansion threads?

Because it would horrendous PR. Despite what some people feel about the lack of need for an expansion, any announcement that one was not in the works would lead to a reduction in active players.

And what if they said, we have intentions to introduce a new profession and race, but it won’t be through an expansion?

So what if they did? They haven’t. They won’t. You know ANet’s (non)communication policy just as well as the rest of us. Moot point.

Way to completely ignore what I’m saying.

If they are working on a new profession, even if they don’t tell us that, it will come at some point. It may not come in an expansion.

So how does that change the equation?

I didn’t ignore what you said. You posed a highly improbably hypothetical. I pointed out that it was so improbable it wasn’t worth considering as a possibility. Seems, if anything, you ignored what I said.

Besides, none of that matters anyway. The person I quoted asked why ANet doesn’t admit to the lack of an expansion. I answered. Nothing more needed to be said.

Half the stuff on this forum doesn’t “need” to be said. It’s a conversation because ideas lead to other ideas…unless you’re completely closed minded of course, in which case ideas lead nowhere.

It’s not improbable and why you think it is is beyond me. But it doesn’t matter. You’ve made up your mind.

HtFde.3856:

The “do 4 events in” are a bad design – all it leads to are overcrowded maps and frustrated melee players who see enemies melt ebfore they have even spawned – add to this that in low level areas events to not scale properly – so you have still like 5 grawl in stage II of the ice shaman regardless of the 50+ players …

As a melee it is very hard to score a hit so that you get recognized for the event and for new players it is next to impossible to get recognized because a true level 5 does way less damage than a fully geared downscaled level 80.

So it would be better to have things spread out (like with the vista or the mining) and make it "do 4 events in the Shiverpeaks, Kryta, etc.) which would not lead to all that clustering.

I don’t suppose you could not melee for the span of four events? I don’t. Even on melee characters. I use a staff on my guardian and a bow on my warrior. My thieves use a bow or a pistol with ricchochet. It works fine.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And if there is no expansion, why doesn’t Gaile or another dev swoop in to say “sorry folks, there’s no expansion in the work” in all these expansion threads?

Because it would horrendous PR. Despite what some people feel about the lack of need for an expansion, any announcement that one was not in the works would lead to a reduction in active players.

And what if they said, we have intentions to introduce a new profession and race, but it won’t be through an expansion?

A lot of people would be ecstatic. Others mixed. Then some people would whine and moan because that’s what they do.

My point is people are chanting expansion because they don’t believe bigger updates like professions, skills and races can come in the living story.

I’m wondering if those things did come, but an expansion didn’t, would that satisfy those crying for an expansion?

NewTrain.7549:

Vayne.8563:

NewTrain.7549:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And if there is no expansion, why doesn’t Gaile or another dev swoop in to say “sorry folks, there’s no expansion in the work” in all these expansion threads?

Because it would horrendous PR. Despite what some people feel about the lack of need for an expansion, any announcement that one was not in the works would lead to a reduction in active players.

And what if they said, we have intentions to introduce a new profession and race, but it won’t be through an expansion?

So what if they did? They haven’t. They won’t. You know ANet’s (non)communication policy just as well as the rest of us. Moot point.

Way to completely ignore what I’m saying.

If they are working on a new profession, even if they don’t tell us that, it will come at some point. It may not come in an expansion.

So how does that change the equation?

NewTrain.7549:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And if there is no expansion, why doesn’t Gaile or another dev swoop in to say “sorry folks, there’s no expansion in the work” in all these expansion threads?

Because it would horrendous PR. Despite what some people feel about the lack of need for an expansion, any announcement that one was not in the works would lead to a reduction in active players.

And what if they said, we have intentions to introduce a new profession and race, but it won’t be through an expansion?

I feel the same way OP (though I haven’t tried Destiny). I have tried ESO, Wildstar, FFXIV, and Archeage (though briefly).

People bash this game on the forums quite frequently. If nothing else it’s the best of a bad lot (to me anyway). But I think it’s very easy to tell people how to fix things, and it’s another thing to actually fix them.

And you know, if half the “fixes” on this forum were implemented, I’m not convinced that there wouldn’t be just as many negative threads.

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Astralporing.1957:

Filaha.1678:

Also, the link you posted is specifically for EU, not including NA. Do your numbers reflect both?

You could have easily checked yourself (leaderboards are a click away), but yes, while NA AP numbers are a bit lower than EU, both in average and on extremes, the situation there is mostly the same as far as percentages go.
Yes, some of that people are inactive – but (unless GW2 population suddenly bombed really bad) even after adjusting for that we’re still talking about 1-2% of the active population. At best, that is – it’s more likely the numbers of people that were constantly driven to do all possible APs from dailies day after day is only a fraction of single percent.

You’re right, I could have checked. But it’s not my job to do someone else’s footwork for their argument.

Still, I’d wager that that 50% who haven’t even gotten 850 points are new, inactive, multiple accounts possibly made for storage, or gold spammers. Using them as evidence of “the majority of players” is therefore misrepresenting the size.

I don’t think you understand. Even if ALL the people below 850 AP were inactive, we’re still talking about a tiny minority. We’re talking about people in 20k+ AP range. And not even all of them, there’s a number of PvE only players that reached that point as well (and a number of 20k+ players went inactive as well, by the way). You don’t seriously suggest that there are that many of those?

No, I don’t think you understand.

If 50% of the people on that leaderboard don’t really play the game, then that 50% are not “part of the population” of the game. They don’t count towards the population of the game, because they’re not players.

…you haven’t read what i have written at all. Either that, or you don’t understand how math works.

I will repeat it again: even if we get rid of 50% of the population (everyone below the 850 AP mark), the AP hunters will still be a tiny minority of what’s left. If you decrease population by half, the 1% of old population will become only 2% of the new, decreased one. And looking at the AP levels, the 1% of total players (active and inactive) is an overestimation, and by a big margin.
Kitten, even if we assume that the population of GW2 has dropped below 1 million already (to a 20% of the people shown on leaderboards), the people that hunted all possible AP’s from the previous daily system would still be less than 5% of the total, active and playing population.
Honestly, the majority of the (active and still playing) players likely doesn’t even log in every day.

Or there are a bunch of people who don’t care about AP points at all, which is also likely and those people would benefit from the new dailies.

Neural.1824:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I did the dailies. Because I felt like it. And hey, I survived too!

So toxic sarcasm is acceptable here, so long as your opinion supports current game mechanics. Good to know.

Sarcasm doesn’t have to be toxic, and anyone who interprets Gaile’s statement as more than banter probably needs to spend less time on game forums.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

This game just becomes more generic with every single idea they implement.

That’s it pretty much. Play one MMO, know them all. Including GW2.

Except that the thing that made it not generic 2 years ago, still makes it not generic today. Or did they add a holy trinity when I wasn’t looking. Are there quest hubs and text quests that I have to skip through to follow an arrow to get the XP to level.

No, this game isn’t generic. It isn’t close to generic. Even the living story is different from other games. At least no MMO I played had something delivered quite like the living story.