I don’t know. I think it’s pretty silly. It’s so silly it’s impossible to take seriously. I don’t think it means you should literally swear allegiance to Anet or Guild Wars 2. And when you’re doing satire, those sorts of things happen.
This feels a lot like satire to me. It’s not really meant to be taken seriously.
I also think pledging allegience to a country that you’re born to, just because you happen to be born to it, is a bit of a stretch. What if I’d been born in a third word country with no freedoms. They’d expect allegience too.
I don’t know. I don’t see what the big bruhaha is about. I found it mildly entertaining.
I personally think that swearing allegiance to anything is silly. That said you only need to read the newspapers anywhere in the world to see that there are people who take it deadly seriously. That is what I am talking about.
People take religion seriously and it’s often satirized. The only person who might be offended…at least I thought…is a totally patriotic American. I don’t think something this silly should be cause for concern. If someone gets offended by this, they’re unlikely (in my mind) to be a gamer in the first place.
There are so many serious breeches of protocol and ettiquette…this one just seems like a goof to me.
Are you worried about those who might take that stuff seriously or are you worried people will seriously think they have to swear allegience to the game?
I just have this nagging feeling that people will be people (ie read these or any other forum). Will things get violent, no. Will this possibly backfire, in my opinion yes.
Ah, I see. I’m not sure I see that happening, but I get where you’re coming from now.
I don’t know. I think it’s pretty silly. It’s so silly it’s impossible to take seriously. I don’t think it means you should literally swear allegiance to Anet or Guild Wars 2. And when you’re doing satire, those sorts of things happen.
This feels a lot like satire to me. It’s not really meant to be taken seriously.
I also think pledging allegience to a country that you’re born to, just because you happen to be born to it, is a bit of a stretch. What if I’d been born in a third word country with no freedoms. They’d expect allegience too.
I don’t know. I don’t see what the big bruhaha is about. I found it mildly entertaining.
I personally think that swearing allegiance to anything is silly. That said you only need to read the newspapers anywhere in the world to see that there are people who take it deadly seriously. That is what I am talking about.
People take religion seriously and it’s often satirized. The only person who might be offended…at least I thought…is a totally patriotic American. I don’t think something this silly should be cause for concern. If someone gets offended by this, they’re unlikely (in my mind) to be a gamer in the first place.
There are so many serious breeches of protocol and ettiquette…this one just seems like a goof to me.
Are you worried about those who might take that stuff seriously or are you worried people will seriously think they have to swear allegience to the game?
I don’t know. I think it’s pretty silly. It’s so silly it’s impossible to take seriously. I don’t think it means you should literally swear allegiance to Anet or Guild Wars 2. And when you’re doing satire, those sorts of things happen.
This feels a lot like satire to me. It’s not really meant to be taken seriously.
I also think pledging allegience to a country that you’re born to, just because you happen to be born to it, is a bit of a stretch. What if I’d been born in a third word country with no freedoms. They’d expect allegience too.
I don’t know. I don’t see what the big bruhaha is about. I found it mildly entertaining.
If you want to see a really healthy forum, check Wildstar, i havent see a single bad comment for that game, and im pretty sure there are some out there but the fact that i havent see any it means that they are not many!
That is about as unhealthy as can be. There is not much worse for growth than a lack of negative commentary. Surround yourself with yes-men and suffer the consequences.
Actually it’s very common for game forums to be overwhelmingly positive before people play games. It’s only after the initial shine wears off that people really go to war. That’s why games get hyped before launch and fail so dismally after.
So as I said, we’ll see. But I don’t believe most of those games will have the followings people think they’ll have.
I’d give this update a 6. I like the new fractals, and I like what they’ve done with some of the tweaks, particularly being able to see easily what rarity something is in your inventory. That’s a very nice quality of life update that I didn’t expect.
But the rehashed skins on the trading post, combined with the silly inability to respawn in the fractal on launch, and yes, even Scarlet showing up….I don’t know. I was hoping for one Scarlet free installment.
Unless they pull a real rabbit out of the hat with the ending, that’s just going too far.
So in other words, good by GW2 come Q1 2014. Oh well, had a good run and some potential.
Guess you haven’t played any of the other betas. The grass isn’t always greener. You think this forum is dark, you should see the stuff being said about ESO.
I find it rather interesting that you say that. I’ve been in several of their betas, including the most recent one and it appears to me that the vast majority are saying good things about it. That is including in game and forums. It definitely isn’t my cup of tea, but can see why people like it.
I’d look at the reddit thread. It’s literally being torn apart. And I’m not the only one saying this. But believe what you like.
Just remember, people said the same stuff about GW 2 before release and a year later look what they’re saying. People said the same thing about SWToR and look what they’re saying.
We’ll see what we’ll see, but most of the games when they finally come out will have to compete with a two year old MMO and most of them will be buggy, not have enough content and will be desperate for market share, which will make for some interesting errors along the way as well.
So in other words, good by GW2 come Q1 2014. Oh well, had a good run and some potential.
Guess you haven’t played any of the other betas. The grass isn’t always greener. You think this forum is dark, you should see the stuff being said about ESO.
The infusion isn’t gone, it’s been moved to the infusion slot, as a stand alone infusion. It’s in the patch notes.
For ages before the game launched, the fan based discussed what should and shouldn’t be in the cash shop.
During that entire period, no one ever said cosmetic items should be off limits.
Cosmetic items do NOT constitute pay to win.
And since gold can be converted to gems, it’s not really any different then grinding gold for any other skin.
I can only assume Scarlet is responsible for the new armor in the gem store.
To those who are saying Anet advertised a game that was going to be one thing and ended up another…sure. They did. Because there were unforseen circumstances revolving around people not playing the game they advertised…Without gear progression of some kind, I believe this game would have failed. And how would that help those who now feel betrayed?
Well I suppose if we are going to just make up scenarios:
The switch probably came because a key player in the ANet/NCSoft hierarchy wanted to up his bonus so that he could get his new Ferrari made out of platinum instead of gold. The fastest selling MMO in history, quite sustainable with its original model, wasn’t going to pad his pockets enough so he pushed for WoW money figuring that if vertical progression works there it might generate just enough extra revenue here to finance his newly acquired taste for Faberge egg omelettes.
How am I making up a scenario. I moderated a fan forum around November, and the amount of people leaving the game because they felt they had nothing to do at level cap was astounding.
And Anet was well aware how many people were going on to get legendaries which they saw as end game. I don’t have all the quotes from devs from that time, but at least one of them said the pickup on legendaries was disappointed. For most people the goal was too long term.
Exotics were nothing at all to get.
Over the long term, it’s not that hard to get ascended gear. The only real problem with it is wanting it now. If you don’t want it now (and most people don’t needed it now) then you’ll get it when you get it and it barely affects your game at all. Something else to save for is all.
Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.
I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.
Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)
However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>
If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.
I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.
I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.
Have a good one.
Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?
If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.
What probably offended him is you’ve essentially said, “those who are afflicted with a disability, do not deserve to enjoy themselves”. It is a disgusting, vile way of thought. This game was marketed to everyone, not just the elite, so “underperformers” have just as much right to all content in this game as “good players”. If you don’t like it, you best move on.
I care for a disabled person full time. I know what her life is like. People who are healthy and can do all sorts of stuff in life are complaining that someone in their party might be holding them back.
In ten years, when those who complain have moved onto another game, or spend less time gaming, she’ll still be disabled.
So yes, you’ve hit the nail on the head.
You know, looking back at this thread, I’m 100% positive that there were posts that have been removed when I made my post. It might look like my post is a response to the posts before it, but I’m sure there was at least one, maybe two other posts after it that are no longer there.
I apologize if I’ve offended anyone.
Long standing Guild Wars 1 tradition is my suspicion. I have two accounts too. It just seemed logical. There were reasons in Guild Wars 1 to have two (like getting ten gifts of the traveler per week instead of just 5, since it’s 5 per account).
In the end, I play my second Guild Wars 2 account very rarely.
I’m leaving this conversation. Maybe you haven’t looked at or don’t remember every other I’m back what’s new thread, but I do. People are brutal in many of those threads. A forum isn’t just one post or one thread but a series of threads. I know what to expect in these types of threads and often they’re not only unfair, but they’re hostile. Now that might have changed, apparently there have been bans, but you’d excuse me for stating what I’ve seen as a truth from past experience.
If you have a problem in the future with my posts, report them. That’s what you should do. Because this has now grown dangerously off topic and I don’t want to continue to derail the thread.
So if they stayed true to form and the game died completely and couldn’t be updated, that would have helped you how? That would have been better for you, how?
What would have been better was to find a solution within their espoused ideals. They actually did later with the fortnightly content updates. Which makes me wonder why proceed with asc items beyond trinkets. If it had started leaking subs again then as I’ve said quite a few times maybe the fault is in the poor quality living world updates.
I agree with this. They should have left the ascended stuff as just jewelry, and that would have been that. I don’t like that they brought in weapons.
I think the bi-weekly updates are “sticky” enough to keep people coming back for more.
Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.
I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.
Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)
However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>
If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.
I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.
I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.
Have a good one.
Well collect yourself and have the conversation without getting infracted. What did I say that offended you so?
If one cannot perform for whatever reason it is inconsiderate/unfair to hold a group back. This is true in GW2 and beyond.
Sorry mate, but it’s midnight here. I’ve made my point, you’ve made yours and those points are irreconcilable. You’re not going to change your mind and I’m not going to change mine.
I just feel that having a DPS meter would perpetuate the type of thought process you bring to the table, and I’m relatively sure it’s precisely the type of mindset Anet tried to get away from. I could be wrong of course, but I’d bet on that.
Anyway I’m off to bed. G’night.
People mentioned what they remembered. You can’t fault people for not remembering content that was introduced. As a community we should be working together to help other. If something was missed, fill in the blanks and help.
Instead of making a post to tell the OP his topic is waste of time, give them that information that others forgot to mention (just like your above post without all the ridicule). You can help the OP instead of ridiculing the other posters, thus making their question not a waste of time.
Keep your personal feeling to yourself, and help them and inform them of the things we forgot to tell them. Don’t come in here telling them they are wasting their time and then not even help them with their question.
Do you honestly think everyone in this thread who posted before me has “kept their personal opinion to themselves?”
I’m telling the OP to check out the game. It’s free to play. He already owns it. Asking a question like this here makes it a loaded question precisely because people ARE allowing opinions to interact with factual information.
I’m saying that he’s likely to get a skewed answer, and I firmly believe that.
Are you saying that if I believe a specific question is going to get a skewed answer, I shouldn’t say so?
Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.
I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.
Well in my defense I am fairly accomplished classical guitarist (been playing since I was 5), and I give lessons every other weekend – for free. I make a living as a history teacher, and I tutor, again free of charge. ;-)
However, I stand by what I said – if one seeks to be carried, solo content is one kick away. Really, I think the less talented people, or the folks with issues impacting their playing ability are the inconsiderate ones. Since this is going into “rl” stuff (I put that in quotes as if games aren’t RL), it’s like someone on a team, say a basketball team. If that person is holding back the team, well… there’s the bench. >>>>
If I broke my hand, I wouldn’t try to run dungeons with people, because I know I wouldn’t contribute worth a hell. It would be very inconsiderate of me to do so.
I hate leeching off people, and if I don’t have the physical ability or talent to do something I am not just going to impose my poor performance on a group because I want to be there. That’s, imo, the very definition of being inconsiderate/unfair.
I’m sorry I’m going to have to leave this conversation…it’s not worth the infraction and that’s surely what would happen if I continue it.
Have a good one.
@ Vayne (and maybe this will help you too, Oldbuga, or whatever): Again it’s not always about competition, it also has to do with not being fair having to carry an underperformer hiding amongst people who actually care enough to play the game with a reasonable level of skill in a group setting (I stated this earlier). If you wanna teach them, fine – that’s really good, but a lot of people really couldn’t care less. Those people, the ones who couldn’t care less, /kick; Leachers, /kick; straight up bad players who just don’t get it, /kick
Sure competition has something to do with it, but so does personal improvement within a game. I know, I know many here have to worry about their Malibu mansions, supermodel wife and their agent who just blew a $27 million deal – so since they “have a life” setting aside 30 minutes or an hour to watch a youtube video or read a guide on their class so they may improve in a game focused on collective effort is too much. They rock “IRL” so all is excused.
See, we speak so often of majorities, but you know what – if Anet actually catered more to the competitive nature inherent in gamers (especially MMO gamers), there would be a lot less ghost town servers in this game. Hell, the probably would have added some. In other words, the game would be doing a lot better.
MMO Gamers who aren’t competitive? That’s almost like an oxymoron. And what do we get from that, a game such as this this is only afloat due to the dearth of MMOs on the market.
You talk about fair. What is fair. Different people have different levels of skill and talent. I’m never going to have the reflexes I had when I was 20. It’s not going to happen. That was more than 30 years ago. Is that fair? Maybe everyone should exclude me because I can’t possibly keep up with kids who can just bang away for hours and do it all perfectly.
Some people have physical or even mental handicaps. They didn’t ask for them. Is that fair?
I get it. Everyone who can’t be good at a game because of a genetic deficiency, or a disability, or even something as simple as insomnia should be barred from all groups because someone says carrying them is unfair.
They have to live their entire lives with something unfair and maybe, just maybe they escape into a game world to get away from the disability. Who am I to tell them that they’re not pulling their weight in a game.
This is a hobby for a lot of people. We have or have had careers. This isn’t serious business. It’s a form of recreation.
By your reckoning, only the best of the best should be allowed to play, because it’s unfair that you have to carry them.
Well, to be honest, I’ve carried more than my share of people who couldn’t do it through content they never thought they could get through…and it makes me proud that I did.
No one asks to be less talented than another person.
Well whatever the reason may be for their underperformance it’s not fair to kitten a group. They are old, they are mentally challenged, they lost 2 fingers in Iraq; they are poor and their computer only runs the game at 10 fps… whatever the case may be is none of my concern. You appeal to passion here and it ain’t gonna work on me. If one have such problems don’t put yourself into a group situation where your underperformance holds the group back. Go solo or play another game.
So is it still unfair if Mr. Wounded Combat Vet cannot pull his weight and holds back the group? Yes!
Nope, it’s unfair to those people that some people share your attitude. I’m not trying to appeal to your passion. I’m not trying to appeal to anything. I’m stating that in my opinion. people who have your opinion are being unfair to others less talented.
I’ve always believed those who are blessed with talent should be gracious and grateful. Naturally not everyone shares that belief.
Yeah, I admit is an assumtion. I strongly believe it is because of those reasons.
Guilty about that.
I believe Guild Wars 1 would have lost many of the players it enjoyed. What I don’t know is with gear progression, how many would have joined who walked away because it didn’t have it.
@ Vayne (and maybe this will help you too, Oldbuga, or whatever): Again it’s not always about competition, it also has to do with not being fair having to carry an underperformer hiding amongst people who actually care enough to play the game with a reasonable level of skill in a group setting (I stated this earlier). If you wanna teach them, fine – that’s really good, but a lot of people really couldn’t care less. Those people, the ones who couldn’t care less, /kick; Leachers, /kick; straight up bad players who just don’t get it, /kick
Sure competition has something to do with it, but so does personal improvement within a game. I know, I know many here have to worry about their Malibu mansions, supermodel wife and their agent who just blew a $27 million deal – so since they “have a life” setting aside 30 minutes or an hour to watch a youtube video or read a guide on their class so they may improve in a game focused on collective effort is too much. They rock “IRL” so all is excused.
See, we speak so often of majorities, but you know what – if Anet actually catered more to the competitive nature inherent in gamers (especially MMO gamers), there would be a lot less ghost town servers in this game. Hell, the probably would have added some. In other words, the game would be doing a lot better.
MMO Gamers who aren’t competitive? That’s almost like an oxymoron. And what do we get from that, a game such as this this is only afloat due to the dearth of MMOs on the market.
You talk about fair. What is fair. Different people have different levels of skill and talent. I’m never going to have the reflexes I had when I was 20. It’s not going to happen. That was more than 30 years ago. Is that fair? Maybe everyone should exclude me because I can’t possibly keep up with kids who can just bang away for hours and do it all perfectly.
Some people have physical or even mental handicaps. They didn’t ask for them. Is that fair?
I get it. Everyone who can’t be good at a game because of a genetic deficiency, or a disability, or even something as simple as insomnia should be barred from all groups because someone says carrying them is unfair.
They have to live their entire lives with something unfair and maybe, just maybe they escape into a game world to get away from the disability. Who am I to tell them that they’re not pulling their weight in a game.
This is a hobby for a lot of people. We have or have had careers. This isn’t serious business. It’s a form of recreation.
By your reckoning, only the best of the best should be allowed to play, because it’s unfair that you have to carry them.
Well, to be honest, I’ve carried more than my share of people who couldn’t do it through content they never thought they could get through…and it makes me proud that I did.
No one asks to be less talented than another person.
I think Anet is missing an important point here.
What was the thing that guaranteed the long success of GW1? No subscription AND no vertical progression. They were apart from other games and had their own niche. You could create your toon, log out, come back a month later or for an expansion and remain competitive.Now, if someone stops a month or two in GW2 and comes back to find that his toon needs to grind for new armor and weapons he might as well go and look that other new MMO that comes out all shiny and new. Why stay in GW2 if it is just like any other MMO?
But well, this thread is sterile. They can’t go back now in ascended weapons if they don’t want to risk a riot from those that spent their time gettign them.
We can only hope they NEVER introduce ascended armors (yes, I know they will, but I can dream, can’t I?)
You’re actually making an assumption that the success of Guild Wars 1 was because of no vertical progression. You can’t really back that up. It’s a theory only. Guild Wars 1 had a lot of unique things going for it, only one of which was no vertical progression.
In fact, you can’t even prove it wouldn’t have been more successful with vertical progression.
I probably wouldn’t tear damage meters up…because I don’t care about how fast I got through content. In fact, I spend far more time watch and helping other people in dungeons than I do just focusing on the boss to maximize my DPS. I’m not only watching my health bar and conditions, I’m watching the party’s.
A lot of times I specifically run dungeons with newer players or lower level characters or people with no experience, and I show them the ropes…insofar as I can. But I never say to one of them, you’re not pulling your weight…because honestly, we clear the content anyway. I’m not too worried about whether I did 40% of the damage, or 60% or 20%.
When I first started out, I hated dying and I focused a lot more of toughness and vitality. As I got better I started replacing my armor with zerker stuff. Most of it is zerker now on my dungeon character, anyway.
But I don’t want a DPS meter, because I don’t require one. Let’s pretend I could do 20 more points of damage a second? So? 30? 50?
I’m just not that interested. Perhaps I would be when I find content I can’t beat.
Vayne, I really do respect your position.
I guess that’s where we’re different. Even if I can win, I want to win faster.
I was a lot like you when I was younger. I’m no longer that competitive. I mean my entire life was competition in real life. Every industry I worked in was crazy competitive. So I learned on my down time to be a whole lot less competitive. When you have to compete and play hard to make a living, you tend to want to not compete in your down time.
I guess my competition is different. I’d like to be known as the most helpful guy, rather than the fastest.
Pretty sure I don’t need a DPS meter to do that. lol
To those who are saying Anet advertised a game that was going to be one thing and ended up another…sure. They did. Because there were unforseen circumstances revolving around people not playing the game they advertised.
So if they stayed true to form and the game died completely and couldn’t be updated, that would have helped you how? That would have been better for you, how?
Those of you not playing the game would not be playing the game either way. But those who don’t mind, or understand why it had to happen are STILL playing the game.
You might very well be playing a game that dies. Anet could have kept their word. But when you purchased the game, you didn’t buy an MMO you thought would be dead in six months either? Isn’t that a sort of “promise” too. That the game would continue and they would add to it? But without numbers, they couldn’t add to it. Not easily and not quickly. They’d have to lay off part of their staff as some of the big MMOs have done. And that means less content, and less fixes.
And everyone completely ignores the amount of times that Anet has used the word iteration. They had a blog post about it. They said it directly. If something doesn’t work, we change it, sometimes drastically. I mean that’s paraphrased but it’s what they said and it’s how artists often work. They try something, they see if it works and if it doesn’t they might cut the whole thing.
Not that might be hard to understand from a consumer point of view, but I understood when I was getting it that if things didn’t work things would change. I’d be pretty unhappy if the game didn’t do well because they stuck to a promise that killed the game.
Changing a plan due to a change in circumstance isn’t a lie. And I’m not thinking it’s a betrayal either. It’s what businesses do if they want to survive. It’s called adaptation.
Without gear progression of some kind, I believe this game would have failed. And how would that help those who now feel betrayed?
I live in Australia as well, and have no real problems with lag, unless my network itself if slow, which happens periodically. But most of the time my skills activate immediately.
I probably wouldn’t tear damage meters up…because I don’t care about how fast I got through content. In fact, I spend far more time watch and helping other people in dungeons than I do just focusing on the boss to maximize my DPS. I’m not only watching my health bar and conditions, I’m watching the party’s.
A lot of times I specifically run dungeons with newer players or lower level characters or people with no experience, and I show them the ropes…insofar as I can. But I never say to one of them, you’re not pulling your weight…because honestly, we clear the content anyway. I’m not too worried about whether I did 40% of the damage, or 60% or 20%.
When I first started out, I hated dying and I focused a lot more of toughness and vitality. As I got better I started replacing my armor with zerker stuff. Most of it is zerker now on my dungeon character, anyway.
But I don’t want a DPS meter, because I don’t require one. Let’s pretend I could do 20 more points of damage a second? So? 30? 50?
I’m just not that interested. Perhaps I would be when I find content I can’t beat.
@Sarabande
The addition of a DPS meter will change the behavior of players. It’s not just the elite that will use it, but people who aren’t elite, but want to look elite. And they’re they REAL problem. And there are probably more of them than there are actual elite players.
I don’t care that elite players want to play together. Keeps them from grouping with me.
What I do care about is the message the DPS meter sends to the rest of the playerbase that isn’t leet. It affects us.
And since we’re the majority, anything that affects us should be taken into account.
—snip—
Will they lose people? Undoubtedly. But the alternative may well have been to lose more people.Honestly though, Vayne, I would just do what they did previously for power progression. Because that’s ultimately what this comes down to, power progression. There’s horizontal and vertical, horizontal is coming at some point they’ve said. They should do what they did in Guild Wars and tie the two together.
That was PvE skill & titles in Guild Wars. Now I’m not saying do the same exact implementation, but do the same concept. PvE skills were the horizontal progression, title progression was the vertical progression.
The power progression on the titles was very shallow, but noticeable. Skills had an increase in power with incremental power decreasing exponentially, which was brilliant. It was effectively diminishing returns on vertical progression.
This was a well thought out system. You could earn all the skills you wanted or just target, which skills you wanted. Additionally, the progression was spread out into categories (races, factions, etc.), so that the different categories could be progressed independently, but you were still progressing power for a group of abilities, instead of all skills or one skill.
Now this system by itself wouldn’t have been successful if it weren’t for the supporting cast of features in the game that supplemented the progression, such as campaign books, dungeons (nomal/hard mode), the story (normal/hard mode), and vanquishing. The other thing that made this work so well, was build diversity in Guild Wars. You could use the PvE skill progression to supplement your build or use some of the skills as the feature of the build.
There were obviously downsides to this system, such as Ursan Blessing, and other players having the option to see what your progression was on these titles. And for some of titles it wasn’t obvious, how to progress, and fairly daunting to progress.
Why not take the good, fix the bad, figure out a way to implement it into GW2 and do it. It was a really solid way to blend horizontal and vertical progression.
I agree with you. They should have implemented horiztal rather than vertical progression. The problem of course, then becomes balance. They had a bevy of balance issues as they continued in Guild Wars 1 and they were in no way ready to deal with that in Guild Wars 2.
I’ve always believed ascended gear to be a stop gap measure. Something they threw out there while trying to get other stuff under control, with the eventual goal of adding other types of progression.
But because that progress DOES take longer to implement, they needed to not only do something, but do something fast.
Development time doesn’t often take weeks, it takes months or years. Adding new skills, weapons, professions, races, all that stuff takes a ton of time.
I think we all know the game launched too early, probably because they felt they had to get it out before MoP. So they did. Then they had a year of fixing all the stuff that didn’t get done because it was released too early. Only now are they really in a position to start working on other forms of progression.
In the meantime, they couldn’t wait until now to start doing something about the problem.
Anet won’t do it and good for them. It promotes the kind of nonsense we see so often in other games.
There’s always going to be an elitist portion of the playerbase, but games are much better for everyone else if they don’t cater to the elitist minority.
It perpetuates a community of people who are ultra competitive, which in a PVe environment isn’t helpful to the majority of the playerbase.
Yes, this is why I believe in a concurrent majority! John C. Calhoun even applies to video games some 160 years after his death, go figure.
In other words, when standing back and looking at the big picture, majorities are usually dense – that’s why they are a majority… it’s rare to be good, but people who are good (read: gifted) shouldn’t be at the whim of the brainless masses.
Except that some of us brainless masses have reasonably high IQs and STILL don’t want a DPS meter. In fact, being intelligent doesn’t necessary equate to being competitive. They’re two different things.
There are some people who are competitive by nature, and there are some people who aren’t. Now, if you put in a feature in the game that will be used by competitive people to make the lives of non-competitive people, the majority, less enjoyable…why would Anet do that.
Oh then there are people who are just sheep. They’re not really competitive at all, but they think it’s cool to be competitive, and when you give those people a DPS meter, they simply use it to abuse other people, who aren’t as “good” as they are, even if they themselves aren’t elite.
Sorry but there’s no reason in the world for Anet to cater to a minority of the playerbase at the expense of the larger player base. Maybe I could see it if it truly didn’t affect the rest of us…but it does.
Anet won’t do it and good for them. It promotes the kind of nonsense we see so often in other games.
There’s always going to be an elitist portion of the playerbase, but games are much better for everyone else if they don’t cater to the elitist minority.
It perpetuates a community of people who are ultra competitive, which in a PVe environment isn’t helpful to the majority of the playerbase.
I think you should try the game, and not come to the forum for information like this. First of all, there’s plenty of stuff that has been added and plenty of stuff that KEEPS getting added.
What the naysayers neglect to mention is that there’s new stuff every two weeks, which means that if you don’t like one update you don’t have long to wait for the next. And because they don’t like it, then everyone else is going to hate it too…except some people like it.
So yeah, asking here is a bit of a waste of time. There’s plenty of stuff to do, and plenty of stuff added…and more coming all the time.
How is it a waste of time? They asked what new content has been implemented since they left. Which is exactly what everyone is answering with. Nothing is being neglected. So the forum is not the place to find this information? What purpose does the forum serve if they can’t come here asking information on what has been implemented since they left?
This is a perfectly fine thread. They want to know what changes have been made since they have been gone, and the replies are giving the OP just that. Just logging into the game will not give them the answers they seek. Thus coming to the forums to ask these questions is not a waste of time and will help educate them on what has happened since they left.
Someone said nothing is new on Southsun, but the Karka Queen meta event is new, as well as the two guild events that take place there.
No one mentioned the moa races, the new jumping puzzle, Southsun Survival, Sanctum Sprint…in fact most Living Story chapters have left something behind.
No one mentioned WvW leveling, the new SPvP map.
People DID mention the new dungeon path and said it just replaced a path. What they didn’t say was that it’s more challenging than most other dungeon paths, made by a new design team that has far more specific achievements associated with it, some of them which can be done only when you beat the dungeon. They replaced a 15 minute dungeon path with a longer one with far more interesting mechanics. Talk about glossing over stuff.
And saying it’s all been temporary and it’s gone ignored the fact that right now and this time, there’s a pretty cool Tower in Kessex that’s still there for a least a while more, which some of us quite enjoy.
Since forums are often populated by those who complain or those who don’t like the game (indeed there are many people who post here who haven’t played the game in months), one would expect a skewed view of what’s new.
I didn’t mention the QoL stuff that’s changed either including the end of culling, the wallet, several optimization patches, he might not have even been here when the auction house preview was introduced.
Or when dailies were changed so you only have to do five of them out of an increasing number of choices. He wasn’t here when laurels were introduced.
People word things in ways to make it sound like they want it to sound. There’s nothing new here, you haven’t missed anything is misleading at best.
ok Vayne, if you were lead developer in charge of gear implementation and progression, how would you design all gear related systems that would be beneficial for anet and not keep any player out in the cold?
Well, see this is the problem.
First, don’t make any mistakes. I’m against, in principle, ascended gear. I don’t like it and I don’t think it’s necessary.
However, I understand I’m not typical of people who play MMOs and might not well be in the majority. I’ve seen far too many people get to max level and leave the game because they had “nothing to do”.
Arguably, most of us would rather have more content than grind for ascended gear, but no matter how fast content is made, once it’s consumed we’re in the exact same place again.
Dynamic events weren’t working to keep people playing. Lots of people say because they’re not rewarding enough, but if every dynamic event had enough rewards to keep people playing them, the inflation would be insane, and people would keep needed to do it to catch up. It’s not a solution.
So Anet probably had some sort of meeting about what to do, and there were probably lots of suggestions. Of those suggestions, most would take time and a short time later leave them in exactly the same situation.
They can’t make content fast enough….no company can. People run out of things to do and they leave.
Annecdotally at least, it seems concurrency numbers are very important to Anet. They have said directly that it’s what they look at, because they’re not a subscription game. They can’t get concurrency numbers up if people don’t log in. That’s why the current situation exists.
Anet might have tried many other untried, untested, longer to implement solutions to keep people playing, but that involves increased risk. More time to program, more downtime if it doesn’t work and then what?
So they did what businesses always do when something they’ve tried doesn’t work. They go to something that they suspect will work. It’s the best thing to do for the business, which in my mind is probably the best thing to do for the game.
Will they lose people? Undoubtedly. But the alternative may well have been to lose more people.
People keep using phrases like “honor their word”. Like this was some kind of holy writ. Something that Anet decided they would abandon lightly. But no one really knows.
First Anet is a company comprised of many people. Like all such companies, as people leave and new people come in, things change. Because everyone has different visions. Games aren’t science, they’re a form of art. You can’t always predict where art will go.
There are times as a writer where I’ve submitted a proposal and the end product was quite different (in a couple of cases drastically different) than what was originally presented. It happens. Not because I’m a liar. Not because I’m not a man of my word.
It’s because I tried something that didn’t work quite the way I thought it would. And then I thought of something that I felt made the piece better. Maybe more suited to the audience I was writing for, maybe more plausible. Maybe just more entertaining from my point of view. Indeed, I can’t write from anyone else’s point of view.
So when Anet released the game, the max level gear was it. Done. Exotics were top level and it’s all we could get. And people weren’t staying with the game. We know that because Anet said it, but also because of stuff posted on the forum. I know it anecdotally from my own observations.
So Anet gave it the old college try and saw it wasn’t working. They made changes to try to bring players back to the game, or keep players that were playing the game. Unfortunately, that left other players out in the cold.
For Anet it was a lose/lose situation. Stick to your guns, do something you see isn’t working, or change it to the best of your ability within time and budget constraints to make it work. That was their choice.
Is this about integrity? What about the integrity to those who enjoy the game and wouldn’t have had anyone to play with if they’d kept going as they were?
I’m sorry but all this hyperbole about betrayal and honor and sticking to your word is just something I’m having trouble comprehending.
Comprehending the perceptions should not be that hard. All of the pre launch information was advertising for the game. People spent money based on their expectations for the game. Those expectations were based on the advertising. If a game evolves away from what was advertised (and this one has), people are going to perceive that what is being delivered is no longer what was advertised. This is going to generate negative feelings toward the company. And yes, companies that fail to honor their advertising lose face, which is exactly what has happened.
Your analogy about a writing project is not applicable, unless you advertised to potential customers that the finished product would have features x, y and z and in fact at press did not have x, y and z. I somehow doubt that was the case, because it would make your project different than every other book, short story, or play out there. One and done product purchases like books are not a good comparison for an MMO, anyway.
Nope the writing analogy works perfectly. I submit a proposal for a book and the publisher accepts that proposal. While working on the book, I see something that’s there doesn’t really work. Most of the time it’s something minor, but sometimes it’s something major. I’ve had a book I’ve delivered so completely different from the synopsis I sold that you’d almost not know it was the same book. The publisher doesn’t care if the book is good and the book will sell.
Anet is a business. They’re not your best friend. They’re not your parents. They’re a company. They put out a product they try something and if that thing seems to not be working they are pretty much obligated to try something else. From this perspective it makes them neither dishonorable or liars. It does, however, make them pragmatic.
If you invested millions into a product, millions of dollars, five years of your life, and you saw it not work, what’s your responsibility to the player base? To remain attached to what you said three years ago, before you saw the trends, or to change the game to make it work “better”.
Not everyone is necessarily going to agree what’s better, but Anet wouldn’t have changed it if things were going great in the first place.
So the question is, what would you do now if they hadn’t changed it and there were like 12 people left playing? If there wasn’t enough money to fix bugs or create updates. Would that have been less of a betrayal somehow?
I think you should try the game, and not come to the forum for information like this. First of all, there’s plenty of stuff that has been added and plenty of stuff that KEEPS getting added.
What the naysayers neglect to mention is that there’s new stuff every two weeks, which means that if you don’t like one update you don’t have long to wait for the next. And because they don’t like it, then everyone else is going to hate it too…except some people like it.
So yeah, asking here is a bit of a waste of time. There’s plenty of stuff to do, and plenty of stuff added…and more coming all the time.
If it were an optional thing, where you could turn it off so people could not even send you a duel request, thus saving you the trouble of even refusing it, how exactly would it affect or grief anyone who didn’t want to?
I’m not saying turn on open world PvP for everyone, because I agree with everyone opposed to it in that sense. The PvE world should be free to only PvE should that be what the player wants. I fail to see how an optional thing would affect or force anyone into anything or warrant quitting when you could tick the option to ‘off’.
This would be better than designated areas. So if some people are waiting for Tequatl and they want to duel while on that map to pass time, they are free to do so…without affecting anyone else on the map. Tequatl is just an example. People could and I can guarantee would use this all over the place. Unless you are horrendously mortified to see people somewhere on your screen duelling in the distance, whats the problem?
You must have missed my post about the attitudes of the people who want it. Even in games where you have it turned off, people will challenge you to a duel and if you don’t respond (because it’s turned off), they start calling you out in map chat. They talk to you. And sure you can block and report them, but why should I have to. How does that positively help my experience.
Once again, Anet has created, every diliberately, a game where PvE and PvP are separate. It was a design decision.
You know that some kid somewhere, if you refuse to duel him, will follow you around using emotes to gesture. And you know, that wouldn’t bother me too much, but it would sure bother some people.
There are too many people like that for me to say it wouldn’t affect another person’s gameplay.
At any rate, at this point, I think it’s pretty clear that the OP isn’t “speaking for the community” but at best speaking for a subset of the community. I would be happy for Anet to create maps that people can duel on….but not in the open world.
There are too many of us who remember Gold Shire. The type of community this encourages is the type of competitive community that enjoys trolling. Not everybody but enough people to allow me to make the statement.
Anet created a game with basically non-competitive PvE. They made a SHARP demarcation between PvP and PvE. There’s no PvP in the open world for a reason. It was a design decison.
Now a percentage of people want to change that decision. They want to bring PvP to the open world. Every single game that mixes these two things, no matter what, ends up with one group of players calling the other group of players care bears.
The type of people who want this are, by and large, not the people I want to play with. I signed up for a game with cooperative PvE. One where you couldn’t steal nodes. It’s not the feature itself that’s a problem, it’s the type of environment and attitude that feature breeds.
Games train people how to play them. If you put in a rez where everyone can rez you, you’ll have more of a chance of being rezzed by someone. If you put in PvP into a PvE environment, you risk changing the entire environment.
That’s the problem in a nutshell.
One of the reasons I hated Rift was because, even though you could turn it off, PvP was allowed in the open world.
I guarantee you people will find ways to grief other people with it.
Strange, just about everyone in my guild roams the open world from time to time. Gathering mats to make ascended has brought some people to the open world, but some people enjoy it. A lot of people actually.
They’re hard to see because, unlike zergs, they’re not all in the same place at the same time.
I think you’d be surprised at how many people like the open world. And I’m pretty sure most of the people who like it wouldn’t care about dueling…and some of them might actively not want it.
OP, please try not to talk for the entire community, because you can’t. Whenever this subject is brought up, and it has been brought up frequently, most of the responses to threads are against open world dueling.
Not to say the forums are necessarily indicative of the majority, but it sure seems like a whole lot of people in this community are vocal opponents of open world dueling.
I wouldn’t mind dueling myself in designated areas, but not anywhere.
I’m pretty sure that’s coming. It doesn’t make sense that it wouldn’t.
Anet has been working on those quality of life issues, one by one. That’s why there’s a new WvW map coming so you don’t have to wait in a queue while waiting to enter EB or one of your borderlands.
I’d give odds that eventually all metas will have parallel overflow metas.
If you consider all the factors involved right now, yes the game is dying, and quickly at that. For the games size and competition at the present time, there should be roughly 5x as many people playing at any given time as there are right now, but we aren’t seeing that at all, in fact I would go as far as to say there has been a gradual decline in the amount of OG players online now. Mainly from a sheer lack of new content and story being introduced by the developers. You can throw as much into WvW and Fractals as you want, but its not going to keep the majority of the player base coming back once it gets new competition from other MMO’s in the works. The vast majority of people buy these games for the story and content, which this game lacks considerably. The new ascended armors are even more evidence of this, there is nothing interesting, or enticing about them and the majority of owners will just transmute right over them back to OLD style gear.
Curious as to where you get your numbers.
Maybe the next LS arc will be something more epic and they can release some advertising around that.
That was what I was hoping for after the Aetherblade LS. Sad to say Scarlet is still here to stay. I hope she’s the one dying right now and not the game itself.
I don’t understand all this focus on Scarlet. I’m not fighting Scarlet. I’m fighting a toxic alliance. She’s an instigator, and as such she’s dangerous, but so are the creatures she calls into being.
When I fought Zhaitan, I had to fight hordes of risen. Scarlet has her “allies” too, or people she manipulates and helps to create weapons.
She has a goal to destroy for no other reason than to see what grows in the place of destruction. Not particularly sane, but a much more interesting villain to me than Zhaitan was, who just wanted to destroy for no real reason.
But since I’m fighting nightmare court and krait, rather than Scarlet, I’m not really sure why the focus is on Scarlet.
I quite like the tower.
OP, are you aware of the difference between hearts and DE’s. Dynamic events are one of the best ways to level..hearts are, and were always meant to be, supplementary. The idea of a heart is to keep you in an area where dynamic events occur. When events occur they often chain, so you get more than one. And often they complete hearts for you without doing the hearts.
If you’re just doing zone completion, you’re gimping yourself out of a lot of XP and karma.
1. My guild … by far the best group of people I’ve ever gamed with. Hell, they tolerate me. lol
2. Getting lost … a lot of times I start doing something and something comes along to distract me and then I’m doing something else and I spot this jumping puzzle. I can get completely lost playing this game. You do have to stop worrying about rewards first to do this though.
3. The races – I really like all the races…and I love that there are no elves and dwarves. That alone was worth the price of admission to me. But all the races are fun and quirky in different ways, except humans of course.
4. The beauty of the world. OMFG, Tyria is beautiful. The art direction in the game (combined with the ambient sound) is just great to explore, or just enjoy.
5. The combat. I find it fun and engaging. In other games, I have to have a rotation. I’m not reacting, mostly, I’m just doing everything by rote. In Rift I had just about everything macroed to two keys. Here, I’m far more involved in the combat.
Vayne was the character name I used in Rift and it sort of stuck when I started moderating a fan forum. Because people already knew me, I kept it.
Just wish I knew that Vayne was a female hero in LoL before I used it. lol
I just finished leveling a necro and it dawned on me. I grinded away to 80 It’s finally time to get get my gear, but I did everything. The maps entierly open. By 80 your build is pretty etched in stone.
Of course, I can’t get any temple armor because good luck getting one open durring a living story event. I would like to do get the temples for fun anyway. Let’s face it, Orr is a graveyard anyway. (no pun intended.)
Yes there’s living story, but that is dead in a week after release. Plus it further kills the other maps. Personal story? Once you don’t need the XP what is the point? Its usually an unrewarding pain.
If you only play 1 build then you’re only limiting yourself. Try other styles.
If you leveled 1-80 exploring the world then now might be time to jump into some dungeon groups.
Have you done fractals? Nope, cuz they’re 80 only. And they’re getting an update soon so there will be more to love.
WvW. Now that you’ve got your PvE build sussed out, try giving WvW a shot and finding your build for that. And gear…you’re gonna need new gear so that’s something to work toward. And despite the fact that WvW is accessible at level 2, you really aren’t competitive until around 80.
Want to do Orr but it’s dead (pun intended)? Then organize a group. Gather guildies, gather first-timers, gather random Lions Archers and lead your assault on the temples.
And most people find the Personal Story to be a highlight of the game. If you don’t like it you don’t have to play it, but many like it. It’s not always about the rewards, but the journey.
You can’t complain about no end game if you just don’t want to do it. It’s there. That’s like complaining that Papa Johns doesn’t have any topping selection because you only like pepperoni.
Its not that i don’t like what they are offering (Your Papa John’s analogy) I like the PVE a lot. (I am a straight up PVE player.) It’s more of a question of How its all laid out opposed it it being “bad”.
Some of what you said is true. I don’t really care for PVP. (Its not like I’ve never done dungeons) Obviously I haven’t done fractals on this toon because It just hit max level. I have leveled 7 toons to 80 already for the record though. Fractals and dungeons are not my thing. even less so in GW2 with its wonky camera.
You brought up living story. Yes, some of it was amazingly enjoyable. It’s either super fun or super annoying. The first week its a super fun and easy. After the zerg dies out its ridiculously difficult.
GW2 seems to only have 2 dificulty levels. Toddler easy and impossibly difficult. For example the halloween crafting was near impossible to do without purchasing the mats. High level crafting, legendaies, gear chase and map completion fall into this catagory for me too.
Seems to me that your entire problem would be solved by joining an active PvE guild. Then you’d have people to help you through stuff and wouldn’t have to depend on random people doing it.
Hey, OP, if you don’t have your thirst slayer achievement and you care about that sort of thing, you can get booze for karma.
There’s no minimum level requirement before they start to drop. The bonus chest will drop from level 40, but you can get champ bags at any level.