Guild Wars 2

Csele.1647:

we had the moa racing, im not sure if it stills there.. but you could even bet money hehe , adventure box season 2 but its gone as well you could get the old skins but diferent color now!!

The moa race is still there. The new jumping puzzles are still there. The new events are still there. The new TA path is still there. The new Tequatl fight is still there (but you have to be very organized to beat it and have a ton of people). Sanctum Sprint and Southsun Survival can still be played. Crafting has changed (and yes, some people like crafting), and the living story is ongoing, the next chapter will be out in January 20th (or thereabouts).

Champ rewards are there, SPVP has changed with the advent of the solo queue, WvW has changed with levels and specializations, a new healing skill has been added and many traits have changed.

Kessex hill has changed drastically with new bosses, new events, changes to hearts, and a new chest you can open once per day.

The fractals have changed with five new fractals, not to mention mistlock instabilities from level 31 fractals and up.

And a lot of what was here is rotating like holiday events. SAB will be back, the Queen’s Pavilion will be back, the Bazaar of the Four Winds and Dragonbash will be back.

Implying there’s nothing new is doing a disservice to the game.

She’s not a dragon, you know? Apparently only dragons are interesting.

I can see where some of the complaints are coming from, but I think they’re overstated. There’s nothing wrong with Scarlet. She fills a game need, which is to have something to work against.

I’m not terribly worried about it, I think Anet has an ace up their sleeve with this whole thing.

CoRtex.2157:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

This is your opinion and I do not share it. In my opinion your statement is entirely false. I realy like the story and the mechanics of GW2. Compared to GW1 I had a hard time focusing on the story and get a feeling for the world until the end of Profecies and Factions, Nightfall was on the other hand perfect. I liked the story of EotN too.

GW2 story is realy interesting and makes me wanna see more, both LS and Main story and I realy hope that LS will mix in with the main story later.

Lol, gw2 interesting story… lol… Gotta find a my lost sister,, yeah, verry interesting… lol :P then there’s this uber epic dragon, and he doesn’t even do anything xD looool

I’m not sure you can separate story from mechanics…because stories have nothing to to do with mechanics. The dragon Zhaitan does in fact do something. You’re simply not following the story.

Your battle with Zhaitan isn’t a boss battle, which is a game mechanic. Your battle with Zhaitan begins at level 70 with the story. You then proceed to starve him, blind him, cripple him, cripple his ability to make undead and use a mega laser against him that was designed to be anti dragon magic by the asura. I suppose you think a better story would be that you could walk up to him and slay him with your sword. That’s not only overdone, but it’s not plausible in any way shape or form.

These dragons were forces of nature. Creatures so powerful that they could raise dead nations out of the sea. I’m not sure how you thought you could run up to it and hit it with a hammer.

The dragon did plenty. By the time you finally defeated it you’d been striking at it for a long time. The story is fine.

Some people just didn’t follow it.

I love how people misinterpret my posts.

I didn’t say anything about praise is good and criticism is bad.

The OP made a statement about the community and how negative it is. It’s certainly more negative on the forums than in game. This I believe to be true.

A lot of the people posting here have stated straight out that they’ve stopped playing the game or they’ve given up on the game. Obviously the game has moved in a direction they don’t like. But Anet has said repeated that that’s the direction and this is what they’re doing to do.

Now, here’s where the problem lies in my opinion. There are still people on these forums complaining about vertical progression when Anet will not be removing vertical progression and has said so. It’s not going away. You can complain till the cows come home. This ceased to be a valid criticism. It just becomes a complaint…and complaint threads aren’t allowed.

It is entirely possible that the game changed directions and when it did, back in November of the year it launched, Anet offered refunds…people played this game for six months and got refunds.

So anyone here still complaining about it, could have left at got a refund months after this change was made. Many people did.

To continue to complain about it, or the fact that the game doesn’t have a trinity (when in fact that’s why many people play it), or the fact that it doesn’t match the manifesto 100%, when the manifesto is three years old…this stuff is ludicrous

There’s a big difference between saying we need more build variety (which we do) than saying this game’s combat sucks because it doesn’t have the trinity.

The problem is, people continue to post trinity threads when there are dozens of games that have the trinity. They want this game to have the trinity TOO. They want to take the existing (and in this case as advertised game), away from people who enjoy the game as it is.

I’ve left this forum, more or less, for the reddit forum, which isn’t policed by Anet moderators, and you know…the community does a fine job of policing itself. And I don’t have problems with 99% of what is said their, complaint or not complaint.

Hell I’ve had my own issues over time and I’ve posted about them but everyone ignores them. They’d rather call me a fan boy, so that when I disagree with them they can try to dismiss me without logic at all.

But other people are reading, people without that same agenda, and to many of those people, I’m not so easy to dismiss.

Guardian.5142:

Fernling.1729:

Guardian.5142:

Vayne.8563:

Doggie.3184:

I see a lot of complaining in-game so what’s the point of this thread? XD

Although: Yes, GW2 is the best, despite all it’s flaws, but we’re supposed to find those flaws and bring them into attention so that the game is improved. Would be nice to get all my friends to actually want to play again instead of telling me there’s nothing to do anymore or that their frustrated with all the bugs, temp content instead of perm content and the creeping grindyness.

The logical problem with your thought process is that you assume the complaints are correct and that listening to them will make the game better. Players aren’t developers and often what they want and ask for would be worse.

The problem is people don’t know the difference between their opinion and objective fact.

The difference is the people complaining don’t have nearly the stake in the game as the company who financed it or the developers themselves.

So maybe they make the changes and your friends come back and they lose an half a million people in the process.

Just because you and your friends like something a certain way, doesn’t make that way better. And it doesn’t mean there aren’t tons of people who would hate that game and not want to play it.

Anet made a game. If you don’t like it, by all means, don’t play it.

But too many suggestions are out there that either won’t make the game better at all, or simply aren’t compatible with the game as it stands now.

Didn’t I kill you in Final Fantasy 12… its been a while. Always liked your hair…

Pretty sure it’s a LoL name.

See? There you are… http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/12vayne2.jpg

Actually I didn’t like and never played FF and certainly have nothing to do with LoL so you’re both wrong.

I just wish I knew before I started using the name back in Rift that Vayne was a woman in LoL. lol

pandora eight.9451:

My retailer does refunds, it is ArenaNet which prohibits the refunds for my country.

Think about what you’re saying here for a moment. Why would Anet do this? How could it possibly benefit them? Does this make sense to you on ANY level?

Who benefits more from blaming Anet for their refund policy? The store. They say what they say, to shift the blame…because Anet has zero control over a store’s refund policy. None at all.

Stores have refund policies based on their own structure.

Now, let’s pretend it’s true. Let’s pretend, and we have no real reason to believe this, that Anet has said to the store they won’t accept returns. Who’s responsibility would it be to inform the customers?

The stores. I know this because I ran a computer store for a long, long time. Anything we couldn’t take back according to our policy was posted quite clearly in the store. I can’t imagine any reason for a store not doing this.

You were lied to by a salesman who didn’t want to have to take flack, that’s all.

Doggie.3184:

I see a lot of complaining in-game so what’s the point of this thread? XD

Although: Yes, GW2 is the best, despite all it’s flaws, but we’re supposed to find those flaws and bring them into attention so that the game is improved. Would be nice to get all my friends to actually want to play again instead of telling me there’s nothing to do anymore or that their frustrated with all the bugs, temp content instead of perm content and the creeping grindyness.

The logical problem with your thought process is that you assume the complaints are correct and that listening to them will make the game better. Players aren’t developers and often what they want and ask for would be worse.

The problem is people don’t know the difference between their opinion and objective fact.

The difference is the people complaining don’t have nearly the stake in the game as the company who financed it or the developers themselves.

So maybe they make the changes and your friends come back and they lose an half a million people in the process.

Just because you and your friends like something a certain way, doesn’t make that way better. And it doesn’t mean there aren’t tons of people who would hate that game and not want to play it.

Anet made a game. If you don’t like it, by all means, don’t play it.

But too many suggestions are out there that either won’t make the game better at all, or simply aren’t compatible with the game as it stands now.

milo.6942:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Csele.1647:

no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..

atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?

More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.

In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.

In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.

Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.

I don’t know why anyone would argue for an achievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.

The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.

Ruining it for who? The smaller percentage of people who like raiding? Maybe the raiding people are actually ruining it for the achievement hunters.

Why are there achievements everywhere? Because people obviously like them. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be achievements everywhere.

I think maybe you’re confusing “ruining” online gaming, with ruining online gaming for you and people who play like you.

Because as far as I know, Farmville has a whole lot more players than WoW ever did.

So, naturally, games should change into a casual achievement themeparks because farmville is the game we all want to play

No, gaming WILL change in the direction of people who play games. In what kind if world is this wrong?

5 guys really like the food in my restaurant. They’re really loyal. They eat their several times a week…but if I can change the menu, I could get hundreds of people who like my restaurant. What kind of idiot would not change the menu.

This is basic business common sense. I’m sure if everyone complaining ran a company, they’d make a tiny game, to appeal to a tiny audience, and think that’s fine. I just hope they also are ready for a tiny budget and a tiny return on their investment.

It doesn’t matter if people like Farmville or people like games with hard core raids….neither group is right. It’s a game and it’s for enjoyment.

Why does liking something you perceive as better make it actually better?

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Csele.1647:

no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..

atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?

More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.

In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.

In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.

Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.

I don’t know why anyone would argue for an achievement based game. It’s like those parents that give everyone in a little league football conference a trophy so no one feels bad if they didn’t win. Achievement-heavy games are literally ruining online gaming.

The players in GW2 who would rather do achievements than dungeons, pvp, etc. are the ones helping to make this game so watered-down and trite. Those are the ones the devs seem to be listening and catering to anyway. Please don’t advocate for something that literally sucks the life out of anything meaningful in a gaming experience.

Ruining it for who? The smaller percentage of people who like raiding? Maybe the raiding people are actually ruining it for the achievement hunters.

Why are there achievements everywhere? Because people obviously like them. If they didn’t, there wouldn’t be achievements everywhere.

I think maybe you’re confusing “ruining” online gaming, with ruining online gaming for you and people who play like you.

Because as far as I know, Farmville has a whole lot more players than WoW ever did.

Most people have a main. I don’t play multiple characters at the same time. I play one for a few days then another so it’s win for me.

And you know, even if I buy a pass for a main, what’s to stop an alt from using Ebon Hawke?

rogerwilko.6895:

If one runs a dungeon, same path 2 times, will he receive the gold reward the second time?

No, the daily chest for dungeons is once per day per account.

But there is reason to cut it out. Because much of the living story stuff requires players to do it. Look at Scarlet invasions. They were part of the living story. During the living story people did them. Now, on most servers, they’re dead. A total waste.

There’s a new path of TA, but most people don’t do that either.

I’m pretty sure anything that was left in would soon be abandoned. No one would be doing it. And then, the one guy who wanted to run the Queen’s Pavillion all by himself would find that no one was running it.

Instead of being fun it would be frustrating.

Leaving everything in? It would be like every other MMO. Everyone standing around doing the latest raid, with everything else sitting idle while no one does any of it.

The benefit is stuff like when you craft using the mystic forge, which doesn’t exist in Ebon Hawke. I made my last legendary in there. Without the forge, Ebon Hawke is useless for this.

There’s also a laurel vendor, guild vendors, and that sort of thing.

And when I’m done, a free portal to any major city.

It’s pure convenience and that’s it.

Edit: Also I doubt most people spend gold on it…most people probably spend cash on it, which is what..the price of a couple of cups of coffee for a permanent pass?

cesmode.4257:

Amiron.1067:

Well said, OP. GW2 isn’t perfect, but it’s a far cry from terrible and it’s a darn good game to look to. Did anyone mention the non subscription fee factor? Because that is also a huge reason why I love this game. I can put it down and come back whenever I like, without feeling obligated to play as much as possible since I’m trying to get the most out of my 30 days.

Why do people say they like a game because it has no subscription? The fact that a game is free does not make it any more fun or any less fun. Financial model does not factor into whether ot not the player will enjoy the game. One has nothing to do with the other. You may like the fact that its free to play, but when people say “I like GW2 because it is free to play”…puzzles me. The free aspect makes it fun? Please explain.

I will assume you like GW2. If GW2 was subscription based, would you then consider it not a fun game to play…or no longer like it?

This phenomena puzzles me

Games with subscriptions put stuff in the game to slow down the game. Games without subscriptions don’t do the same thing. And I’m not talking about time gating on crafting, which is another type of slow down.

Take WoW as an example. Flight times from place to place are long and once you’ve done them 80 or 90 times, they’re just a waste of time. You can’t just TP to a waypoint and be where you want to be? So yeah 10/10 for immersion, but I don’t want to see and watch myself fly, or go make myself a cup of coffee. I want to be back playing.

If I’m crafting 100 of something to level a craft, I don’t want to be there for 20 minutes. I want to get it done. In Guild Wars 2, you craft faster the more you craft.

And you don’t actually have lockouts on dungeons or raids in Guild Wars 2 (not sure if they still have them in WoW or not, but they did). I can do any dungeon whenever I feel like it.

And since every pay to play game used variations on this strategy, it’s no real surprise that I like a buy to play game better.

Particularly because most free to play games are pay to win, which I don’t like.

Imagine that! A programming job that took longer than expected. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that happen before. I mean every building project comes in on time and under budget.

They made a list of stuff they intended to get out before the end of the year, some of the stuff got pushed back.

The funny bit is, if they rushed the stuff out,. then people would scream it was rushed. If they take their time and move it back people say they’ve been lied too.

It is entirely possible to miss a deadline without lying. I once told a publisher I could have a draft of a story back to them in a week…it took three. Did I lie? Did I break a promise? No.

I underestimated the time it would take, partly due to the project itself and partly due to other influences that delayed my ability to work on it.

The stuff that’s been moved back has missed a deadline, nothing more. It’s business as usual, as most programmers would tell you.

Csele.1647:

no need to make long analogys … gw2 is just like watching the same movie every day…..

atleast for the people who dont like living story wich is every single one i know…… people just do it because there is literally nothing else to do or farm achievements… who honestly prefers 1 day or 3 day worth content instead of a permanent dungeon.. or areas.. ,armor, weapons ,skills classes ?

More people than you’d believe want achievements instead of dungeons. I’m pretty sure people who enjoy running dungeons aren’t the majority in any MMO. They’re the loudest portion of the population, but I’m not thinking they’re the biggest.

In fact, a huge percentage of players never set foot in a dungeon at all. So I’m sure those people wouldn’t prefer a dungeon. Many of those people don’t PvP at all by the way.

In fact the number of players who solo MMOs can no longer be ignored even by devs. Scott Hartsman of Rift said as much, and even the GW2 FAQ answers a question about soloing. It’s not there because no one does it.

Of course, if people solo, they’re also not doing dungeons. Plenty of people just want to bang around in the open world, kill stuff and have a good time. Achievements simply give them something to focus on.

I like to hike. I like to walk in the woods. It’s not challenging. I don’t walk really fast, or really far. Also, I seldom walk alone. Usually I walk with a friend and make a day of it.

PvE in Guild Wars 2 is much the same for me. It doesn’t matter if I’m running a dungeon or completing a zone. I’m always noticing different stuff, trying different stuff, having fun with different people in my guild.

I’m not sure why people are so focused on challenge that they think it’s the only way to have fun. Surely movies aren’t often challenging but people watch them.

If the only way to have fun is to challenge yourself,. maybe you need to look at your motivation for that.

Me? I’m happy to just have a laugh with the guild, doing whatever.

The other day we ran a 14th level guildie to the gates of Arah to help him level. Trying to keep him alive was a blast. And sometimes it was really challenging. But then, our guild Christmas event wasn’t at all challenging and I enjoyed that too.

Cornellious.1435:

VOLKON.1290:

To run with the bizarre analogy in the OP, I still feel like Norm when I log in. Maybe you just need a new bar… the one I’m in keeps adding new items to the menu, new beer to the tap and the patrons are as raucous and fun loving as ever.

I can see where you are coming from, and many people seem to agree with you. I don’t think the content coming out now is bad exactly, it just isn’t very satisfying. I don’t feel that the two experiences are mutually exclusive. Would you really be upset if the content added was a bit more meaty and a bit less achievement focused?

See, I like achievement focused content. I played Guild Wars 1 that way as well…so did a lot of people. I suspect those who played Guild Wars 1 for achievements feel more at home here than those who say PvPed.

But I think the new content is getting better, not worse. I thought the tower part of the living story was the best yet. I liked the Tower…I liked the new enemy mechanics. And I particularly like that the living story changed a zone. Waypoints vanished, new bosses appeared, a new chest (which gives pretty cool stuff) and even the hearts in the zone have changed. Hell, even neighboring zones have changed. Seeing the changes shows me the potential of what’s possible in future living stories.

So what you want that has more meat, might very well be of less interest to me. I don’t want overly challenging content, or a raid, or even particularly dungeons.

I came to this game to play in the open world, because Rift failed so dismally on that account…at least when played.

The open world is where I enjoy myself most.

Leo Paul.1659:

Vayne.8563:

Leo Paul.1659:

Azure Prower.8701:

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

This has become a Korean grinder. I’m now struggling to log in.

Qaelyn.7612:

I don’t need to read it again. Every forum of every MMO is filled with complaints from people who play insane amounts of time and get bored of the game, but rather than recognizing that maybe they should take a break and try something else, claim that there’s something wrong with the game.

Sigh, people and their selective reading.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been playing the game since headstart without a break and I don’t understand the OP either.

Maybe the OPs opinions aren’t shared by everyone. Quite a few people in my guild were here at launch and have played continuously.

Your go to arguments are always Some Are/Some Are Not or Unwarranted Contrast. I dunno how anyone can even take you seriously anymore.

This is what you wrote:

“The fact that you’ve only been playing the game for 2 months makes it reasonable why you do not understand the OP. I suggest you read it again.”

The implication here is quite clear. You’re saying if this poster had played longer, he would understand the OP. But I’ve been playing longer and I don’t.

And you know, you’re not my target audience for posts. It makes not one lick of difference if you take me seriously or not. But if you’re going to post something as unfair as you did, I have every right to call you on it.

Reworded but still pretty much an unwarranted contrast. And it seems you don’t seem to get what the OP is saying either. The method by which ascended is acquired, its timing and intervals in being introduced, its (lack of) significance to the game in general, you seem to miss (or just selectively ignored) those points. But yea, you always were fond of using fallacies to defend Anet instead of properly addressing the validity of arguments. (deliberate ad hominem)

Just noticed that the OP changed the title of the thread. Perhaps now you’d understand his post a bit better? Ascended (or a new tier) begs for new content for it to be relevant/worthwhile, otherwise it just seems like a poor gimmick to make players stick a bit longer.

Saying that I’m using fallacies to defend Anet, is simply wrong. I use opinion where warranted to express my opinion positively and I do use fact to counter people who try to state opinion as fact. Personal attacks shouldn’t be tolerated, and I’m done talking to you. If you don’t have anything to say that’s not personal, don’t say it.

The OP is stating an opinion and that’s what it is. Not everyone agrees with that opinion as can be seen from this thread. I’ve expressed my opinion as I’m free to do so. If you can’t accept that, I’d suggest it’s not my issue.

Rooks Zaer.5846:

Vayne.8563:

For example, the manifesto, the video I’m talking about here, mentions neither vertical progression nor gear grind.

Not explicitly no. But it is definitely part of the “takes everything you love about GW1” line. If you were to survey everyone that played GW1 and asked what they love about it, I -guarantee- “lack of vertical progression” makes the top 3. And I would bet on it being a contender for the #1 spot. It was very much a franchise-defining feature.

I guarantee you you’re wrong. See how easy that is.

I’d wager 90% of people who played Guild Wars 1 have never heard of vertical progression.

Generally speaking, only a tiny percentage of people think deeply about games to begin with. Only about 15% traditionally visit forums for example and only a small percentage of that 15% post.

Most people have never heard of vertical progression as hard as that is to believe.

So if Anet is talking to the 15% that really KNOW the game, you’d be right. But they were talking to everyone.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

HappyPrimes.3904:

Honestly, after GW2 I don’t even want GW1 anymore. GW2 has so soured my opinion on Anet I would never purchase a game developed by them again, hell…I’d love to get my money the hours I’ve spent on their games back even.

GW2 has been nothing but a categorical disappointment, should have gotten a refund back in beta instead of assuming Anet would fix anything. Seriously, all I wanted was GW1 with an open world and jumping, not asking a lot.

I would have been happier with paying $60 for literal Prophecies with a jump button.

And still you are here yappin’.

Sorry you have got the raw deal here but I like GW2 much better how it is now than how it would have been with GW1 with open world and jumping.

Atleast I have a feeling I am still playing Guild Wars when I play Guild Wars 2.
The models and movements of characters and skills, the enemies and alot of the story.
For me it feels like GW2 is a perfect “upgrade” of GW1 with just what you mentioned (Jumping and open world) but with lots more like Crafting, Jumping Puzzles, Events, tasks, movements while channeling skills (no stale turret combat), no stupid trinity, waypoints.
What I do miss is; Guild Hall, Cantha, the ability to save and load builds and Heroes iow Henchmens that you can outfit and trait(Though I read that they don’t want that in the game I sill miss it).

Edit:
Quoting Vayne (It won’t quote as it should)

Most of the manifesto still holds up, even if people like to pick it apart and take specific lines out of context. We’ve been over and over this.

For example, the manifesto, the video I’m talking about here, mentions neither vertical progression nor gear grind.

The grind line is defined in the manifesto itself. Colin says, “in most games there’s this annoying grind before you get to the fun stuff”. Ergo that’s the grind he’s talking about.

The manifesto as a statement of intent is fine. People choose to interpret it differently than it was meant, and that remains a problem…but it’s not entirely Anet’s problem.

Anet says something like, there should be no grind to get to the fun stuff!
People read no grind and that means they have said NO GRIND!
Well… Depends on how you look at it, the fun stuff is it to have a Legendary to brag about it? or is it to play the game and every content of it?
I don’t have a legendary… I have ascended accesories, one ascended weapon and soon I am able to craft me half of my armor ascended.
I havent farmed or Grinded any part of the game… But well that depends on what you call it, I do all Scarlet attacks I can since I like to do them(havent done them for a while now though), I did grind boxes during the south sun LS for about an hour a day since I liked running around doing events with all other players(it is such a nice experience playing with others without having to group).

But they further clarified the grind statement in the months after the manifesto. They used the Shadow Behemoth as an example. Putting big, fun group encounters in low level zones, so people don’t have to play through the entire game to get to end game to experience something really cool.

I’m not sure why this is even being discussed. They said something, explained it at the time, and three years later, three years!…people are questioning what it meant.

If they weren’t paying attention at the time, and they ignored most of what was said after the manifesto, I’d call that their own lookout.

Geiir.7603:

Not broken promises? Did you see their MMO manifesto and played the game the last year?!

I have. The problem is one of interpretation.

The questionable line in the manifesto is the “everything you love about Guild Wars 1”. And clearly different people would love different things, so anyone who believes everything you loved about Guild Wars 1 would be in the game is just wearing blinders. I mean if you loved second professions, I’m pretty sure everyone knew they wouldn’t be in the game.

The line about “grind” is the single most misquotes line in the entire manifesto. Colin took the time to define what he meant by grind. People chose to ignore this.

And then there’s the issue of the clarification, released 3 days after the manifesto was made, to prevent confusion. It stated, and I’m paraphrasing here, Colin was talking about dynamic events, Ree was talking about personal story.

And since the manifesto, Anet has released dozens of hours of footages, pages of information, interviews….90% plus of which remain true to this day.

Anyone who’d ever played an MMO knows that things change. Not as much has changed from the early days as people are making out.

Amiron.1067:

Geiir.7603:

Not broken promises? Did you see their MMO manifesto and played the game the last year?!

“We don’t make grindy games” was their first mistake; this game is all about grinding, whether it be dungeons, fractals, champions or others. Don’t even get me started on legendaries.

I try not to log in to grind; I just log in and do whatever I feel like, whether that be pvp, dungeons, or roleplaying. As they say, everything in moderation.

We don’t make grindy games isn’t in the manifesto. It was definitely said, however. What was also said (and people seem to ignore this), is that there would be things to grind for for people who enjoy that play style. What there wouldn’t be was mandatory grind.

That still, for the most part, remains true. You do not need to grind to experience 99% of the content in this game.

Happy New Year all. Hope we can all find some common ground and move forward this year.

A Living World doesn’t have to be an expanding world. Take the Earth. It’s living,. but it’s not expanding. It’s changing.

Last time I was in Kessex Hills, it had changed. Waypoints are gone. Hearts are different. There are new types of events. Foes there have different attacks.

And zones around there have different events as well (toxic offshoot events).

If the world evolves its a living world, whether it’s an expanding world or not.

Most of the manifesto still holds up, even if people like to pick it apart and take specific lines out of context. We’ve been over and over this.

For example, the manifesto, the video I’m talking about here, mentions neither vertical progression nor gear grind.

The grind line is defined in the manifesto itself. Colin says, “in most games there’s this annoying grind before you get to the fun stuff”. Ergo that’s the grind he’s talking about.

The manifesto as a statement of intent is fine. People choose to interpret it differently than it was meant, and that remains a problem…but it’s not entirely Anet’s problem.

Leo Paul.1659:

Azure Prower.8701:

Because I do not want to even think of farming for different tiers of cloth from mobs for ascended armors. Because I no longer want to repeat content I’ve done a thousand times before for an insignificant reward.

This has become a Korean grinder. I’m now struggling to log in.

Qaelyn.7612:

I don’t need to read it again. Every forum of every MMO is filled with complaints from people who play insane amounts of time and get bored of the game, but rather than recognizing that maybe they should take a break and try something else, claim that there’s something wrong with the game.

Sigh, people and their selective reading.

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been playing the game since headstart without a break and I don’t understand the OP either.

Maybe the OPs opinions aren’t shared by everyone. Quite a few people in my guild were here at launch and have played continuously.

Your go to arguments are always Some Are/Some Are Not or Unwarranted Contrast. I dunno how anyone can even take you seriously anymore.

This is what you wrote:

“The fact that you’ve only been playing the game for 2 months makes it reasonable why you do not understand the OP. I suggest you read it again.”

The implication here is quite clear. You’re saying if this poster had played longer, he would understand the OP. But I’ve been playing longer and I don’t.

And you know, you’re not my target audience for posts. It makes not one lick of difference if you take me seriously or not. But if you’re going to post something as unfair as you did, I have every right to call you on it.

Obsidian.1328:

Sirendor.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Then why not go for some middle ground that still favors customization, just to a lesser degree? Instead they went waaaay the other direction. No one’s doubting the complexity of GW1 and how hard it was to balance, but simply scrapping it in favor of a system that is its polar opposite isn’t exactly innovation. It’s destruction. They almost completely dismantled and rebuilt it.

Why?

Anet has always over-reacted to problems. It’s their modus operadi.

Remember how people said that Prophecies was too long and slow. So they came out with Factions which was too short and fast. They got the balance a bit more right with Nightfall came out.

MMOs aren’t born as they later become…they grow. Anet started with less options and will add more as time goes on. That means that as they add more, they have a better chance of keeping some control. Starting out with 200 skills per profession would have killed it out of the gate.

Get the central game to where you want it, then start adding skills. It’s better for the game in the long term.

…

That’s your answer? Because overreacting is just their thing? You’re being an apologist.

I’m not being an apologist at all, because I’m not saying Anet is right for doing this. I’m saying this is what they do and I’d come to expect it. I’m more resigned to it than excusing it.

But it’s a penduluum thing. They got it wrong with Prophecies (too long and slow for most people), got it wrong with Factions (too fast, not enough content for a full game) and more or less got it right (or at least righter) with Nightfall.

I’m stating what I perceived, and saying that Guild Wars 2 will continue to by altered until there are more builds available and more skills and more ways to make builds.

But it’s never going to be Guild Wars 1 by intentional design.

Vayne has a solid point here. It’s extremely hard to cater to all the different kinds of players at the same time. It’s like trying to climb 3 horses the same time (only good ol’ Chuck is able to do this > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-D1KVIuvjA).

You’re right, he does have a point in that a successful MMO is an evolutionary process and not a polished dream right out of the box. I was also trying to bait him into a more drawn out argument because that’s not exactly the essence of the argument here is it?

You’re also right in saying that it’s hard to cater to all the different kinds of players at the same time, which has a lot to do with what everyone is talking about here. A key point of the issue is GW2 isn’t catering to the same crowd as GW1. They are catering to the casual masses. That’s fine if that’s what a company wants to do. There’s certainly money to be had in that, especially since the casual crowd is the fastest growing demographic in a decidedly cutthroat market.

What a lot of us take issue with is the contention that ANet gave every indication of making it a game for the GW1 type of player. A game for players who thrived on challenging content, strategic build diversity, meaningful storyline elements, and especially highly competitive, team-oriented PvP. They didn’t exactly do that, did they? If you’re going cater to a different crowd, have the decency to say so instead of pulling the proverbial wool over our eyes.

I don’t mean to be harsh, but I don’t know how to put it another way.

I don’t know. I was a hard core Guild Wars 1 player, and I felt I pretty much knew what to expect. I knew what the personal story would be, in a great amount of detail. I knew what dynamic events would be. And I certainly knew there were be no second profession, far less skills and skills tied to weapons. It wasn’t like Anet hid any of this.

If Anet didn’t say straight out there would be less skills, or that there won’t be healers, I’d agree…but they told us this stuff.

People chose to look at one line from the manifesto (everything you loved about Guild Wars 2) and make that the extent of their research. It’s not like Anet didn’t have two years to tell us everything about the game after that point.

There are, of course, things we didn’t know…but much of the criticism, particularly around skills and builds, was pretty much public knowledge.

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne.8563:

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Then why not go for some middle ground that still favors customization, just to a lesser degree? Instead they went waaaay the other direction. No one’s doubting the complexity of GW1 and how hard it was to balance, but simply scrapping it in favor of a system that is its polar opposite isn’t exactly innovation. It’s destruction. They almost completely dismantled and rebuilt it.

Why?

Anet has always over-reacted to problems. It’s their modus operadi.

Remember how people said that Prophecies was too long and slow. So they came out with Factions which was too short and fast. They got the balance a bit more right with Nightfall came out.

MMOs aren’t born as they later become…they grow. Anet started with less options and will add more as time goes on. That means that as they add more, they have a better chance of keeping some control. Starting out with 200 skills per profession would have killed it out of the gate.

Get the central game to where you want it, then start adding skills. It’s better for the game in the long term.

…

That’s your answer? Because overreacting is just their thing? You’re being an apologist.

I’m not being an apologist at all, because I’m not saying Anet is right for doing this. I’m saying this is what they do and I’d come to expect it. I’m more resigned to it than excusing it.

But it’s a penduluum thing. They got it wrong with Prophecies (too long and slow for most people), got it wrong with Factions (too fast, not enough content for a full game) and more or less got it right (or at least righter) with Nightfall.

I’m stating what I perceived, and saying that Guild Wars 2 will continue to by altered until there are more builds available and more skills and more ways to make builds.

But it’s never going to be Guild Wars 1 by intentional design.

Leo Paul.1659:

Qaelyn.7612:

I find these threads laughable. I’ve been playing the game for over 2 months and have spent at most 2 hours in that time grinding anything (a few champions for a monthly). Still have a ton of stuff to explore and do and expect there’s plenty to keep me busy for at least a year, not counting new stuff that gets added.

Grinding is self-imposed. It’s always the people obsessed with optional gear who then convince themselves that grinding that gear is mandatory and then complain that the game is grindy.

Also, sometimes people just outgrow a game and need to go play a different one.

The fact that you’ve only been playing the game for 2 months makes it reasonable why you do not understand the OP. I suggest you read it again.

I’ve been playing the game since headstart without a break and I don’t understand the OP either.

Maybe the OPs opinions aren’t shared by everyone. Quite a few people in my guild were here at launch and have played continuously.

My guild usually runs events like JPs and do all the jumping puzzles on day 1. We have mesmers along for those who can’t jump.

It’s probably the easiest to get besides the dailies. If you really have problems doing them, make friends with a mesmer.

The problem is, the WvW crowd was furious that free server transfers existed at all, and the existence of free server transfers completely undermines the entire WvW experience.

And since anyone can guest to any server for free (you can PvE on TC as much as you want for free), I’m not really sure what the complaint is about.

Are you suggesting implementing something to ruin the game for everyone who WvW’s when it’s clear you can play on any server you want, no matter your home server?

Obsidian.1328:

Vayne

Then why not go for some middle ground that still favors customization, just to a lesser degree? Instead they went waaaay the other direction. No one’s doubting the complexity of GW1 and how hard it was to balance, but simply scrapping it in favor of a system that is its polar opposite isn’t exactly innovation. It’s destruction. They almost completely dismantled and rebuilt it.

Why?

Anet has always over-reacted to problems. It’s their modus operadi.

Remember how people said that Prophecies was too long and slow. So they came out with Factions which was too short and fast. They got the balance a bit more right with Nightfall came out.

MMOs aren’t born as they later become…they grow. Anet started with less options and will add more as time goes on. That means that as they add more, they have a better chance of keeping some control. Starting out with 200 skills per profession would have killed it out of the gate.

Get the central game to where you want it, then start adding skills. It’s better for the game in the long term.

So I played Guild Wars 1 today…helping a guildie through factions. It’s still a great game. But it also lacks many things that would have made it a much better game. Trading post, the ability to remotely deposit collectibles, the ability to jump, even the ability to go off road. These are things that really held Guild Wars 1 back.

But there are other things that held it back, things that people loved about it. The sheer number of skills and possible builds were great for some types of players but anathema to others. Many people couldn’t handle it. There were so many players running around with terrible builds. It’s almost impossible to do that, when your weapons are linked to your skills. It was a change made to stop people from not enjoying the game, because they weren’t into making builds, or researching them.

By the same token, Guild Wars 1 was literally impossible to balance because not only second professions, but the ability of anyone to change their second profession pretty much at will. This was a problem that couldn’t be brought into Guild Wars 2, for pretty obvious reasons.

Guild Wars 1 never hit the main stream. People have still never heard of it. Popularity-wise it’s no World of Warcraft. Frankly, I think it’s better, but I acknowledge that it had a relatively narrow appeal as far as the overall percentage of gamers taking it up.

Anet made changes to the format so that people who didn’t build could just pick up a weapon and go kill stuff. Some people see this as bad, but I see it as good, even though I loved making builds. It expands the number of people who could conceivably play. Now Anet can start adding a bit more skills and variety and play with traits. It’s a learning process.

If Guild Wars 2 had launched with the complexity of Guild Wars 1, you’d have the same player base…but for a game this big, with this kind of overhead, I strongly suspect it wouldn’t have been enough to keep the game going.

cesmode.4257:

Vayne.8563:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Dondarrion.2748:

Looking forward to conclusion to Scarlet in next 4 LS updates; looking forward to new legendaries and precursor scavenger hunt, looking forward to next LS “series” and hopefully it brings a new ELDER DRAGON (you know, what this game is about, right?), new zones/playable races/professions.

Well, one can dream, and I hope it’s all inbound in 2014

Wildtrash, ESO won’t deliver (I will try the latter, but I don’t believe either will succeed, imho)
EQ:N/L caters to different crowd with its features (Next could be interesting though)…

Anyway – heavily invested in GW2 still – so c’mon Anet, dazzle me in 2014!

Reveal Scarlet as an elder dragon lieutenant and all will be forgiven

Just the existence of these new MMOs will likely hurt GW2. People will try them, and that puts them out of habit of logging into GW2. So even if the new MMOs are bad, a number of people won’t return to GW2.

GW2 really has to do something to stop people from even trying these new MMOs. But considering the first is coming in April, there’s not much time.

It depends. Something like the Elder Scrolls MMO might actually bring people who NEVER played an MMO to the table, and then, if the game doesn’t do well, Guild Wars 2 could end up with some of those people.

I know some of that went on with SWToR. There are people who liked Star Wars, sort of saw the possibilities in an MMO, didn’t end up liking the game and ended up playing Guild Wars 2.

It’s not the short game that’s important, it’s the long game.

Thats enormously speculating that GW2 might wind up with some of the disgruntled TESO folks. Hell, they might go to Wildstar, WoW. Or try a different free to play game, like Tera, Rift or Neverwinter. GW2 might get some, but to make it an arguing point is folly.

It’s not enormously speculating at all. It’s logical. Particularly when you look at the type of game Elder Scrolls is and the type of game Guild Wars 2 is.

If you like the graphic style of elder scrolls, and a fantasy MMO, and particularly something that has something like WvW, there aren’t many games to go to.

There’s no way you can compare ESO with neverwinter for example, or Tera for that matter. They’re going to be completely different types of games.

ESO has taken quite a bit from the Guild Wars 2 playbook, so if it’s buggy, I’d expect a fair few people to consider Guild Wars 2 (particularly with frequent sales and promotions).

I personally don’t like the cartoony graphic styles of WoW or Wildstar and I’d find the transition quite difficult.

And sure, some players WILL go to other games if ESO bombs, but that doesn’t mean it won’t bring new people into the MMO space and it doesn’t mean some of them won’t come to Guild Wars 2.

I mean if you like the idea of ESO but it doesn’t deliver, why would you go to TSW?

This is why 99% of the time, I run dungeons and fractals with my guild. There’s more accountability there, because you have to see people again tomorrow.

On the other hand, we’ve had four guild members and a pug in a dungeon and I’ve never seen a pug kicked in that circumstance, because we’re not that type of guild.

But yeah, I would be very reluctant to join a guild run from another guild…unless I knew the guild or at least one of the players.

Pick up a plank and target the guy with the fishing rod. Also, you can steal the fishing rod from him the same way you can steal the crab. It’s what I did when someone did it to me.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not the short game that’s important, it’s the long game.

Not if GW2 doesn’t survive long enough to get into the long game, which — to me — is a real danger.

It’s so not a danger. I hear this kind of stuff all the time. There are games that are older and much worse than Guild Wars 2 that have survived much longer. Games that barely worked at all that were around for years and years.

Do you know how many players Guild Wars 2 needs to “survive”? Do you know how many players are playing right now? Do you know how many new players might come aboard between now and when these new games come out?

This kind of statement servers no purpose except to alarm. I’m not alarmed. I’ve followed this industry for too long to believe that this game doesn’t have a future. It’s not going to have 12.4 million subscribers, but neither does WoW anymore.

I think the devs are more canny than most people think, and I think most people assume the way they feel about a game is the way everyone feels about it.

2014 will end up being a very good year for Guild Wars 2. This so-called danger will come to nothing.

It’s never exactly the same, you’d still be more powerful. You’d have more skills and traits unlocked for example.

The idea behind leveling in MMOs is so you feel like you’re progressing. It’s been like that in most pen and paper RPGs, which is what online RPGs tend to try to emulate.

I think it’s a dated concept though and needs to be looked at in future games.

bri.2359:

angelpaladin.7921:

I was wondering does anyone else think the game needs some serious polish?

Yup, I sure do, but this goes far beyond just polish.
Look at the mess with the ranger pet. This was such a poorly designed mechanic, the Anet lead dev admits they cannot fix it.

With the new games coming out in 2014, I can see many players fed up with this moving on.

I can see this too. They’ll move on. they’ll be disappointed because almost every new MMO that comes down the line will be just as buggy and they’ll either be back or move onto the next MMO. It’s been happening for years, I’m not sure why it should stop now.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Dondarrion.2748:

Looking forward to conclusion to Scarlet in next 4 LS updates; looking forward to new legendaries and precursor scavenger hunt, looking forward to next LS “series” and hopefully it brings a new ELDER DRAGON (you know, what this game is about, right?), new zones/playable races/professions.

Well, one can dream, and I hope it’s all inbound in 2014

Wildtrash, ESO won’t deliver (I will try the latter, but I don’t believe either will succeed, imho)
EQ:N/L caters to different crowd with its features (Next could be interesting though)…

Anyway – heavily invested in GW2 still – so c’mon Anet, dazzle me in 2014!

Reveal Scarlet as an elder dragon lieutenant and all will be forgiven

Just the existence of these new MMOs will likely hurt GW2. People will try them, and that puts them out of habit of logging into GW2. So even if the new MMOs are bad, a number of people won’t return to GW2.

GW2 really has to do something to stop people from even trying these new MMOs. But considering the first is coming in April, there’s not much time.

It depends. Something like the Elder Scrolls MMO might actually bring people who NEVER played an MMO to the table, and then, if the game doesn’t do well, Guild Wars 2 could end up with some of those people.

I know some of that went on with SWToR. There are people who liked Star Wars, sort of saw the possibilities in an MMO, didn’t end up liking the game and ended up playing Guild Wars 2.

It’s not the short game that’s important, it’s the long game.

I’m cautiously optimistic, rather than excited. I’ll be happy to see the back of Scarlet in March, which is pretty early in the year. Not that I dislike her personally as a villain (she does what she needs to do), but I’m tired of hearing about her from other people who don’t like her.

As for those other games…all MMOs launch in a less than optimal condition and players often don’t give those MMOs a chance to fix what’s wrong. It happened here too. One could argue that decisions made by Anet were based on people leaving without really giving them a chance to get the game in order. And while you might argue that that should be done before launch, almost no MMO has been able to. It’s too expensive and takes too long and can’t be done without players playing anyway.

So yeah, those other games will launch, be filled with bugs, will have too little content, people will blow through them, and people will leave. They’ll come back to a game that’s more stable and has more content because the game is older.

Always seems to happen. People are always leaving their game for new games…but the old games are mostly still around. Someone must be playing them.

I do this quite frequently. I was on a level 40 ranger the other day and soloed the wasp soldier and wasp queen in Fields of Ruin. It was fun. Then I did an event in one of the charr areas at level, that had multiple champions in them which I soloed.

Though solo might be the wrong word because I had helpful NPCs. lol

Yeah, I enjoy doing stuff like that. I don’t usually follow the herd.

Some Guild Wars 1 armors were completely horrid though and many didn’t appear at launch. Some didn’t appear until Eye of the North a couple of years later.

And may of the armor skins from Guild Wars 1, I thought were a joke anyway. I guess we get to ignore those.

Guild Wars 1 didn’t use progression with power/numbers. It used progression with skills that were added to the game. You got more powerful by getting new and different skills, Finding new ways to combine those skills into new builds made you more powerful, without ever increasing the level cap or the damage output or your armor.

It gave you ways to play better, but you didn’t objectively get more powerful. The power was capped by your skill and your ability to create a build (or learn how to use someone else’s build at very least).

Well no idea what the criteria is but my wife received one in Tasmania, Australia, which quite surprised us. This was back in the Guild Wars 1 days.

I think it’s a grand gesture and we both really appreciated it.

Of course, she never really let me live it down that she got one and I didn’t. lol

The living story stuff is a mixed bag. No one is going to like everything, because they try to make stuff for everyone.

Usually you get an in game mail from an NPC about what’s going on, but there are a couple of different ways to find out about living world content.

The easiest way is to open your achievement panel, and look at the living world achievements, because they’ll usually give you a clue as to what is going on. At least you know what you have to do.

For example, currently, there are two Living World events going on at one time….the Wintersday Celebration ( most of which can be accessed through Lion’s Arch), and the Kessex Hills/Tower story arc, which is in its final phase.

I really like the Kessex Hill arc because it made permanent changes to the game. I took an alt in there and found heart events that didn’t exist before. NPCs are saying different things. It’s pretty cool.

And the new events are cool as well, though some of them will be hard for people at level.

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

Behellagh.1468:

Well WoW was earning upwards of a BILLION dollars a year in subscriptions at one point and with cash flow like that, you can have TV commercials starting Capt Kirk and Walker Texas Ranger and Mr T and a Toyota pickup truck. In the 5 reported quarters for GW2 they have yet to break a quarter of that. Money matters when it comes to advertising and when you have Scrooge McDuck piles of money to swin in, it’s a lot easier to do.

Long before WoW was running those ads, it could afford to advertise heavily and it DID advertise heavily.

Lest you forget Warcraft 2 was wildly successful and WoW was piggybacking off that. Those who were actually there at WoW’s launch would remember what a complete and total disaster it was. The amount of server downtime was legendary. Why did people stay?

Because there was nothing else to play, because there was little competition and WoW kept advertising.

They made zillions of dollars later, sure, but they already had a huge budget for advertising even in the beginning. That’s what big companies can do that smaller companies can’t.

WoW did not advertise much at all at launch. Maybe the standard print ad in PC Gamer. It was… maybe 5 years before they started a real active campaign? Not until WotLK.

I was there at WoW’s launch and it was nowhere near as bad… the only issue I had? Loot lag… because there were so many players. And some login queues that lasted for months because there were so many players coming to the game.

WoW’s success was due to two things: 1) an incredible game and 2) incredible word of mouth.

I disagree. I remember seeing ads. Not television ads, but they advertised plenty. The spent plenty of money on advertising. You don’t have to believe it, but that’s pretty much what Blizzard has always done.

And if you say it wasn’t bad, shrugs. Too many people have had other experiences, very publicly. For the first two months the game was down completely almost as much as it was up.

Edit: Anyway who tries to compare Anet’s coffers or even NcSoft’s coffers with Blizzzards is just being disingenuous. A much bigger company can afford to put much more into advertising and every company advertises.

But this is getting really off topic, which is the manifesto and I think we should steer it back there.

BeoErgon.9107:

Come on guys…
I don’t understand.
Would you buy gold to a Chinese farmer? No, right? It’s bad, unbalances the economy, gives the buyers an easy way to obtain everything in game without effort.
But Anet is selling its own gold, and everyone thinks it is normal.

This game you win by obtaining skins, ascended and legendary. There is nothing else to win (in PVE).
If you can pay real money for those, you are paying to win. Period.

I understand that Anet needs the money and it’s their game. But anyone saying you do not pay to win has not really understood what Winning means in this game.

There’s no competition in PvE, so you can’t win in PvE. I’ve been playing PvE for a year, and I’ve never won anything…and never tried to win anything. PvE is cooperative, not competitive.

Behellagh.1468:

Well WoW was earning upwards of a BILLION dollars a year in subscriptions at one point and with cash flow like that, you can have TV commercials starting Capt Kirk and Walker Texas Ranger and Mr T and a Toyota pickup truck. In the 5 reported quarters for GW2 they have yet to break a quarter of that. Money matters when it comes to advertising and when you have Scrooge McDuck piles of money to swin in, it’s a lot easier to do.

Long before WoW was running those ads, it could afford to advertise heavily and it DID advertise heavily.

Lest you forget Warcraft 2 was wildly successful and WoW was piggybacking off that. Those who were actually there at WoW’s launch would remember what a complete and total disaster it was. The amount of server downtime was legendary. Why did people stay?

Because there was nothing else to play, because there was little competition and WoW kept advertising.

They made zillions of dollars later, sure, but they already had a huge budget for advertising even in the beginning. That’s what big companies can do that smaller companies can’t.