Guild Wars 2

Raine.1394:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

ChaosKirin.1328:

I seem to be the only one on this forum that knows how a story works. I’m so excited that this game actually has one that lasts, rather than being released all at once and then having nothing for two years.

I LOVE the living story. I pity the poor person who had to change their vision for the living story because of impatience on the part of the players. Releasing a little bit of story every two weeks is an amazing idea, and it seems that people here can’t connect the dots enough to realize that these story pieces aren’t random – they’re all part of a larger whole.

What I’m getting is that not only do most people not understand that the conclusion of the story is forthcoming, but that they want all their story at once, and then they want to repeat it over and over and over for a year until more story comes out. Then they can repeat that over and over.

I am legitimately confused. Why does this have to be all instant gratification? Why can’t we all just relax and let the story come as it does?

Because a good story is hard to put down, and you eagerly look forward to each chapter. This is not a good story. If this had been a book, I would have tossed it right after Scarlet appeared.

I want it over with, because until it is, this is all we are getting. I don’t care any more about the “finale” of this badly written formulaic pulp than I would care about the ending of a book thrown in the trash.

I’m still looking for the next chapters of the Tyrian story I started in GW1. Mordant Crescent. Joko. Cantha. Elona. What became of the Canthan empire, Luxons, Kurzicks. Evennia. Livia. The Sceptre of Orr. I’ve waited patiently for those things, the things they hinted in “The Changing of the World”, because those are compelling stories,.. or could be.

Note that I didn’t even mention Dragons. Far more than Dragons have been ignored to promote this Stale Story.

So are you saying Guild Wars 1 had a good story that you couldn’t put down? That wasn’t formulaic? I can’t name many MMOs that have a good story I couldn’t put down. This is because MMOs aren’t books.

When I want literature, I read. When I want game play, I don’t find it at the library.

There may somewhere be an MMO with a story I couldn’t put down, but I haven’t found it in WoW, or Rift, or Perfect World or DDO, or Lotro. I didn’t find it in AoC or Warhammer.

Games are centered generally around gameplay. Even TSW as good as the writing was, was something I felt I could easy put down. I didn’t try SWToR, because though it might have had good writing due to the Bioware influence, nothing else about the game appealed to me at all.

Isn’t it interesting, then, that Anet’s major focus here is on telling a story? And, not just a story, but a living story. They clearly believe that a story can be told within the genre.

I would agree with you generally that story has not been a major element of games. I loved the statement by the creator of Diablo that they kinda tacked on the story at the end. While they didn’t achieve greatness in storytelling, they did manage to create a mood and general ambiance. I do believe that storytelling can succeed to a larger degree than it has here. Consider a normal expansion in a game. A lot has happened, maybe even a cataclysm. Why would it not be possible to have the events of that cataclysm take place over time? Sure, you are not going to achieve the results of great literature as the medium won’t support it. But, I believe a lot more can be achieved than we’ve seen to date.

The living story has been changed to the living world to better reflect what it is, and it is living. It certainly changed Kessex Hills, and even the zones surrounding it.

If you look in the achievements section of the hero screen it says living world, not living story.

Anet said all along they want a living breathing world. That’s what they’ve been working toward. The word story, even though they used it themselves, is a red herring.

VOLKON.1290:

Becka Williams.4978:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Arnath.2319:

sigh… all this hype about the final four releases, fist patch back from a long break and what do we get? Two boring world bosses that will either be to hard and abandoned like the new Tequatl (the most poorly designed epic failure in ArenaNet history) or something like the KarKa Queen who is easy yet no body gives a kitten about it because of its location and effort involved to spawn it.

I honestly was expecting something good in these final four releases, did they learn nothing from the epic train wreck that was Tequatl 2.0?

Transfer to JQ

Teq is downed 3 times a day, and kakra is downed 3-4 times a day. After reset JQ has 3-4 overflows that all down Teq. (you will need to show up an hour before spawn to get a spot in a competent overflow)

I agree they aren’t the best design, especially for small servers, but they are done daily if you are actually looking to do them and not just complain. Hopefully this new boss scales better so we can do it with 20 people or 200.

Teq spawns 12 times per day. Your server does it 25% of the time. Other world bosses are done probably 70-80% of the time.

Last night, after reset, I was a little late getting to Tequatl (I normally don’t do it, being mostly WvW but felt like it last night) and wound up in overflow. A really crowded, filling up fast overflow. A guild in there started spamming (in the best sense of the word) that they were organizing a kill in the overflow, put out TS information, etc. I think the guild was TSI or something similar… turns out this was what they were calling the “second overflow” due to one having filled already. Regardless, the dude in charge got this mishmash of players in TS, organized, and we took down Tequatl with a good four and a half minutes to spare. It was a blast, and many thanks again to that guild and the efforts they put in to make it a fun and successful go for everyone that showed up.

So… three times per day? That was three times nearly simultaneously. I think people are vastly understating how often Tequatl is beat in a given day.

This has to be true, because I beat Tequatl several times a week with the TTS mega-guild. It’s more than just a guild, it’s a guild of guilds. I’m sure that’s who you ran into.

We often have more than one overflow that we take over to beat Tequatl. Anyone can apply and join it as a secondary guild, and just rep at the right times to participate. They just have to go to ttsgamers.com and apply.

Anyone who thinks Tequatl isn’t done isn’t paying attention.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

ChaosKirin.1328:

I seem to be the only one on this forum that knows how a story works. I’m so excited that this game actually has one that lasts, rather than being released all at once and then having nothing for two years.

I LOVE the living story. I pity the poor person who had to change their vision for the living story because of impatience on the part of the players. Releasing a little bit of story every two weeks is an amazing idea, and it seems that people here can’t connect the dots enough to realize that these story pieces aren’t random – they’re all part of a larger whole.

What I’m getting is that not only do most people not understand that the conclusion of the story is forthcoming, but that they want all their story at once, and then they want to repeat it over and over and over for a year until more story comes out. Then they can repeat that over and over.

I am legitimately confused. Why does this have to be all instant gratification? Why can’t we all just relax and let the story come as it does?

Because a good story is hard to put down, and you eagerly look forward to each chapter. This is not a good story. If this had been a book, I would have tossed it right after Scarlet appeared.

I want it over with, because until it is, this is all we are getting. I don’t care any more about the “finale” of this badly written formulaic pulp than I would care about the ending of a book thrown in the trash.

I’m still looking for the next chapters of the Tyrian story I started in GW1. Mordant Crescent. Joko. Cantha. Elona. What became of the Canthan empire, Luxons, Kurzicks. Evennia. Livia. The Sceptre of Orr. I’ve waited patiently for those things, the things they hinted in “The Changing of the World”, because those are compelling stories,.. or could be.

Note that I didn’t even mention Dragons. Far more than Dragons have been ignored to promote this Stale Story.

So are you saying Guild Wars 1 had a good story that you couldn’t put down? That wasn’t formulaic? I can’t name many MMOs that have a good story I couldn’t put down. This is because MMOs aren’t books.

When I want literature, I read. When I want game play, I don’t find it at the library.

There may somewhere be an MMO with a story I couldn’t put down, but I haven’t found it in WoW, or Rift, or Perfect World or DDO, or Lotro. I didn’t find it in AoC or Warhammer.

Games are centered generally around gameplay. Even TSW as good as the writing was, was something I felt I could easy put down. I didn’t try SWToR, because though it might have had good writing due to the Bioware influence, nothing else about the game appealed to me at all.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

One thing that should be addressed is the ‘rumor’ that there will be a big ‘feature’ update on March 4th, or early March. I don’t think that will be the case, since they clearly stated they are taking a break after the final 4 Living Story updates for LS Season/Year One. I can see the moaning and grousing already…sigh.

I am not so sure that all the gameplay and content for this upcoming patch can be ascertained from a few seconds of video. Those that can are more astute than I. It just seems more fair to actually play the release, or at least wait for the patch notes before judging, but that’s just my opinion.

I don’t know where the ‘fact’ that Scarlet is a puppet came from. She may well be, but I didn’t get that from the video. I saw a construct….I have no reason to believe (or not believe) that Scarlet isn’t controlling that giant clockwork monstrosity. Maybe I missed something….. Lol, would not be the first time.

I think the implication is that it’s foreshadowing that she has become or will become a puppet, not that she is. It’s a metaphor…at least that’s what I think is being said.

So much prejudice in this thread. Root of the word prejudice…to pre judge. People aren’t judging this release based on it’s own merit, or playing the release. They’re pre-judging the release based on other encounters which may or may not be indicative of what we’re going to see.

Or a two minute trailer.

I’m not saying it’s going to be great, nor am I saying it’s going to be bad. I won’t judge something before I play it.

Substance E.4852:

ChaosKirin.1328:

Why is it poor writing, though?

And why grind at all? You can actually play the content without getting all the achievements. And even if you want the carrot at the end, it’s so very easy to just acquire a lot of them through doing the dailies.

I get the feeling sometimes that a lot of people think this is poor writing because the main villain is NOT a dragon, and is a female character. I don’t think I’d see half the griping if everyone knew right now whether or not the villain was Primordus.

Pretty grand assumptions to think that people reject a villain because its a woman.
It’s also acceptable to think she falls short of the dragons since they are supposed to be immortal forces of destruction that have completely reshaped the land in the last 250 years.

Scarlet is a cackling Saturday morning cartoon villain that has caused less death and devastation than your average hurricane or earthquake.

Creating a whole set of very threatening and acceptable villains and then casting them to the side for some other villain who’s every move is an asspull* IS bad writing because it’s not interesting or engaging. It’d be like if Tolkien completely forgot about Sauron the second he revealed Saruman was an evil kitten and just had him go around monologueing and maybe burning down people’s houses and ruining festivals.

*http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssPull

You’d be right if Anet had cast the elder dragons aside, but that’s not the case. The idea of the Living Story wasn’t to continue the personal story, but was to have some side stuff to do while Anet works on bigger projects. They can’t pull dragons out of thin air, that development takes time. If you don’t think they’re working on dragons, I’m pretty sure you’d be wrong.

But with the amount of time it’s taking, they needed something to fill the void. They didn’t want permanent content, because this isn’t the “main course”. It’s a side dish.

So for a side dish this is the kind of villain that makes the most sense.

If the only villains in the world are dragons, the world is going to be a boring place for me.

TexZero.7910:

Vayne.8563:

I think people are missing one point here. This isn’t “the” finale. This is the first of four stories…the finale is yet to come.

I think someone is sorely lacking in reading comprehension. I never stated this release was the finale. What i said was its using dated story telling that’s so predictable that not even M. Night Shyamalan can make whatever finale they come up with not be as stale as 12 year old bread.

I definitely think we should talk about reading comprehension. Where did you see me quote you? What makes you think I was only talking to you? Did I refer to you by name?

Other people have expressed disappointment, but this isn’t the end. It’s a trailer with a couple of new creatures. There’s no plot shown here, nor should their be in a trailer. It’s like an action movie trailer…they show action…but very little plot and certainly no plot twists.

Feel free to judge an entire update on an action trailer, but some of us prefer to see what’s going to happen.

I think people are missing one point here. This isn’t “the” finale. This is the first of four stories…the finale is yet to come.

Corpus Christi.2057:

It is sad to see how easily satsified the masses are. Truly.

This is a truly judgmental comment. What you’re saying is you’re better than the masses somehow, because you like something and other people like something else.

Well, seems to me on patch does someone must like the content, because I keep getting put into overflows. I mean consistently.

Sometimes I’m on overflows for days and days after a patch hits.

I think the word I’d use to describe some of the posts I’ve read here as uncharitable. People certainly love to use language to exaggerate what they see is wrong with the game…and there are obviously things wrong with the game.

So let’s say Anet created and launched a new zone. A big zone like I don’t know…Hirathi or Gendarran Fields…something that side. With a hundred dynamic events in it.

How long do you really think that it would be before people finished the zone, and were complaining we have no new zones? Or that the DEs are the same old protect, kill and escort quests (because there really only are so many types of quests available in games).

People talk about reskinned content but that’s all new zones are in most games. I guess it depends on which illusions you can buy into.

People would “beat” the zone in a few days and then say there wasn’t enough content.

Hell, people did that with Factions when it came out and that was an entire game.

morrolan.9608:

Darkstar.6178:

To my mind, this says only that they wanted to make it complex and keep people guessing. Well, they kinda did that…I saw a lot of people stating “I wonder what Scarlet is doing with these things this time.” Just because we know who is behind it doesn’t mean we know how things are going to work out, or really even WHY she is doing it.

The only guessing game people are indulging in now is guessing when Scarlet will finally be gone.

Clearly you don’t read lore forums or reddit. On reddit, people are speculating constantly. There are many threads about what’s coming and have been for a while now.

tomlin.8204:

Vayne.8563:

And what’s, exactly, the purpose for you to run dungeons in other games? Or farm gold? A few points in your ever increasing stats, leading to a new boss that has ever increasing stats.

Sounds to me like someone has bought into the fiction of vertical progression.

My sig will tell you I don’t care for forum buzzwords

At least the game in your description has a purpose. The purpose of having gold in other games similar to this is, well, you know, it’s a currency. It’s worth something. Running a specific dungeon with specific drops repeatedly will give you a goal, something to work or hope for. These thousands of tokens for ugly armour sets that I have are completely pointless, so there’s the reward out of the window, it seems you’ll agree that consatntly running the same dungeon over and over can get boring; why would I do them again?

For more garbage items to sell to an npc or a rare rune that’s soulbound that I don’t even want to use or a hilarious tonic that I can’t fight in or a Precursor…

…yeah right. I haven’t played every mmo out there but are there any others that can give you the best reward possible from any low-level mob, with just as much luck at forging one as say the best imbue/enchant/whatever it’s called in said game? ie next to none.

Nothing to do with buzz words. I’ve played those “other games”. Rift, WoW, AoC, Aion, Perfect World, DDO, Lotro.

It’s all smoke and mirrors no matter what you do. The only question is what smoke and mirrors you buy into.

I never once felt anything playing WoW. Nothing. There was no purpose to anything I did. So I don’t play WoW.

If there’s no purpose to anything you do here, then obviously this game doesn’t synchronize with your personal taste. But that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to work towards or nothing to do.

I found there was nothing to work toward in Rift. In the end, I was do nothing by trying to collect sparklies, because raiding is meh to me. I don’t enjoy it, I don’t care about it. I’m not interested in it.

Strangely enough I don’t seem to be in a minority. Most people don’t consider themselves raiders.

All any game can ever give you a series of things to do that you either enjoy or you don’t enjoy. If you don’t enjoy them, by all means, don’t do them. But they’re not pointless, they’re just things you don’t like.

Sunshine.4680:

Penguin.5197:

Paulytnz.7619:

Sounds like it could possibly be dragon related then! O.O

Nah everybody hopes its a dragon. I’m rooting for her in becoming our ally and joining that new group forming up that has Rox and Braham in it. They still need a sylvari

I hope not, enemies becoming allies is so played out. I also wonder if every group HAS to have one of every race in it, seems silly.

It is silly. However there are some people who only play one race and are vested in that race. So to not include a race is to exclude that player. It has more to do with inclusivity than anything else.

There are people in this game who play and like nothing but Asura or nothing but Norn. Shrugs.

ChaosKirin.1328:

I seem to be the only one on this forum that knows how a story works. I’m so excited that this game actually has one that lasts, rather than being released all at once and then having nothing for two years.

I LOVE the living story. I pity the poor person who had to change their vision for the living story because of impatience on the part of the players. Releasing a little bit of story every two weeks is an amazing idea, and it seems that people here can’t connect the dots enough to realize that these story pieces aren’t random – they’re all part of a larger whole.

What I’m getting is that not only do most people not understand that the conclusion of the story is forthcoming, but that they want all their story at once, and then they want to repeat it over and over and over for a year until more story comes out. Then they can repeat that over and over.

I am legitimately confused. Why does this have to be all instant gratification? Why can’t we all just relax and let the story come as it does?

You’re not the only person who understands how a story works. I was quite enjoying the way it was, and I’m also sorry they have to change it.

Nick.6972:

People played UW and FoW for years in GW1, GW2 lacks good repayable content with well designed rewards.

FoW was okay to do once or twice. UW was probably a bit better. Those who ran it for years were the exception, not the rule. A tiny portion of the playerbase, standing around in the Temple of Ages, spamming for the new meta build that people could speed run it with.

Yawn.

While I do wish there was content for you, Anet knows how many people actually did that kind of thing. I’m guessing it wasn’t a popular as some people assume.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Tauril.8504:

Wait… did they just casually announced new professions and new PvP game modes in a random interview, just like that ? o_o
Their stance about that used to be something along the lines of “no way” until just now (and on new professions I agreed that it would be a huge balancing mess).

wow.

No they have been using that same line, word for word since before launch. I can quote it without even looking at it by now.

“We can deliver updates and features traditionally associated with an expansion through the living story method or through a traditional boxed expansion. We have not yet decided which path to take in delivering this content, but some day it will happen”

Of course they have been saying that for 18+ months now and we have yet to get a single expansion feature… so i’d take it with the unending ocean’s worth of salt.

Since Launch, huh? Except for the fact that this is completely 100% untrue.

The living story didn’t appear since launch, it didn’t appear until more than six months after launch, so there was no reason to use this language. And then, no one knew what the living story was. It was only coming out once a month and no one was really yet complaining, except about a slow start.

This language didn’t appear until people started complaining that there were no new zones and that the living story seemed to be repeating itself. So they’ve been using “this language” far less than half the time the game has been out.

They’ve said all along they’re working on bigger projects in the background. What exactly do you want them to say?

tomlin.8204:

Will I get generic “don’t let the door hit you on the way out” comments if I say I’m ready to leave this game? Perhaps I’ve been thinking of it the wrong way all the time. I wanted a game I could devote my time to but I see now there is absolutely nothing for me to do outside of these updates.

Run dungeons – for what purpose?
Farm gold – for what purpose?
Champ trains – lol
WvW – for what purpose?
PvP – for what purpose?

There’s only one fun profession (Ele of course) my personal story died over a year ago and the RNG is worse than any game I have played, ever.

>log in
>run around in circles
>log out

And what’s, exactly, the purpose for you to run dungeons in other games? Or farm gold? A few points in your ever increasing stats, leading to a new boss that has ever increasing stats.

Sounds to me like someone has bought into the fiction of vertical progression.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

Snip

Yeah, wasn’t meant to be hostile, sorry if it sounded that way. I’ve just been thinking a lot about progression recently (since the CDI stuff is up.) I don’t really have great ideas, just a sense the there must be something better than VP. So I was presenting some of the better ideas I’ve seen (to me)

I like flexibility and change more than I like progression. So time gated gear is terrible for me. Also, the introduction was so slow that it didn’t seem terrible.

I don’t blame ANet for the decisions they’ve made. I understand that experiences MMO players understood that they should have a “main” (the same way they all understand what “Unique” means). I didn’t understand it, and so, now I have many characters in exotic gear, a smattering of ascended stuff on each of them, no laurels banked, no guild commodation, and no real “plan” as to where to go from here.

So I’m waiting for the next game where I can have a fresh start and use the things I’ve learned here.

I’m against vertical progression too. I don’t like it and never particularly wanted it to come to Guild Wars 2. Understanding why Anet did it doesn’t make it something I like.

I’d prefer horizontal progression, particularly more skills and builds.

After playing at least one of the new betas for one of the upcoming games, I’m sort of happy I basically like it here. Because I don’t think I can make that game work for me.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

Just about the worst defense anyone can use for something to be in a game is that it’s been like that for years.

That’s highly ironic coming from you considering how many times I’ve seen you use that very justification for ArenaNet’s shift from the game they wanted to make to the game they’re currently making.

Actually I don’t use that as a justification for Anet doing that at all. It’s a great way to twist what I’ve said.

I don’t believe anything should be kept just because it’s always been done that way. I do believe in trying something new and different. However, once you try something new and different and see it’s not working (keeping in mind Anet would know a whole lot better than we would if people were actually logging in and playing) then you have to make adjustments to protect your investment.

Anet didn’t just copy the WoW model in how the gear was acquired. I don’t know about you, but I’m not raiding for BIS gear. They have made changes to the game based on the reactions they’ve seen. I’m not sure what business does otherwise.

At no time did I ever say Anet should make these changes because that’s what everyone in the industry does. In fact, if you took the time to look through my considerable post history, you’d find I don’t like other MMOs, so I certainly don’t want to see stuff repeated just because it’s always done that way.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Morrigan.2809:

Aeonblade.8709:

Mortifer.2946:

I don’t understand what are your expectations people. Living story content is great, I don’t say it has a strong story, but it is fun! I, for example, loved scarlet invasions and it is sad that almost nobody does them by now. Everyone just farm their way to legendary and forget about all the fun

The reason almost nobody does them is because the majority of people did not find them fun.

the reason why no one does them any more is that they nerfed the champ farming and took away the loot bags for different phases and made it a succeed to be rewarded event.

The farmers don’t like it because they do not want to invents 45 min to get their loot-

I tried one of the invasions the other day because I did quite enjoy them at the time- but we were 4 people and so of course we failed

His point stands; if they were fun there would still be non-farmers participating.

I don’t agree with this. I had fun in the Scarlet invasions, but they occurred too frequently. Because they occured so frequently I burned out on them.

Sometimes a great song is played too much on the radio. It gets played out and I start to not want to hear it. It doesn’t mean it’s not a great song.

I enjoyed the Scarlet invasions, and not predominantly for the loot. It was content we could run as a guild and we were all in mumble, running around, having a blast. It was fun.

Was the farming a part of it? Sure it was. But that doesn’t mean I wasn’t having fun.

What’s to disagree with? Would you not still do the invasion events if you still found them fun? If you’re not doing them it’s either because you don’t find them fun or because you’re no longer a member of the “I don’t grind, I do what I find fun” club. If you found them as fun as you’re letting on, a break should have renewed your interest. If it didn’t, then the only conclusion I can come up with is you didn’t have as much fun doing them as you’re trying to convince us (and yourself) you did.

I find lots of stuff fun in moderation. Sometimes I overdo something and it’s not as much fun. What is so hard to understand about this?

It’s content I played through, got the enjoyment out of and don’t do now. It’s like games I played last year. Some of them are still fun, but I don’t play them.

I have X amount of time to do what I want to do, and there’s always new stuff to do. The 40 minute requirement to do that content is simply too much for something I’ve done that many times.

It’s more like a ride at Disney World which I like but don’t particularly have time to go on because there are other rides I like better.

When I do an invasion (I did one like three or four days ago) I still had fun…but there’s so much I do in the game and that’s just one small aspect of it.

Lots of stuff vs not enough time to do everything that I want, whether it’s fun or not.

In fact one of the hardest things about a Scarlet invasion for me has nothing at all to do with how fun it is and has everything to do with the fact that it’s very hard to take breaks during invasions. Often real life considerations don’t let me play for 40 minutes straight.

darkace.8925:

Morrigan.2809:

Aeonblade.8709:

Mortifer.2946:

I don’t understand what are your expectations people. Living story content is great, I don’t say it has a strong story, but it is fun! I, for example, loved scarlet invasions and it is sad that almost nobody does them by now. Everyone just farm their way to legendary and forget about all the fun

The reason almost nobody does them is because the majority of people did not find them fun.

the reason why no one does them any more is that they nerfed the champ farming and took away the loot bags for different phases and made it a succeed to be rewarded event.

The farmers don’t like it because they do not want to invents 45 min to get their loot-

I tried one of the invasions the other day because I did quite enjoy them at the time- but we were 4 people and so of course we failed

His point stands; if they were fun there would still be non-farmers participating.

I don’t agree with this. I had fun in the Scarlet invasions, but they occurred too frequently. Because they occured so frequently I burned out on them.

Sometimes a great song is played too much on the radio. It gets played out and I start to not want to hear it. It doesn’t mean it’s not a great song.

I enjoyed the Scarlet invasions, and not predominantly for the loot. It was content we could run as a guild and we were all in mumble, running around, having a blast. It was fun.

Was the farming a part of it? Sure it was. But that doesn’t mean I wasn’t having fun.

Delvoire.8930:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

Another thing that has me a wondering a little…. Why add a second world boss to Bloodtide Coast? There are other maps that could use a permanent addition of a world boss.

What world boss is at Bloodtide Coast? I can’t recall any…

The Hydra Queen..you’ll find it under boss achievements. It’s a pain to get that event chain to trigger though.

Edit: Taida Covington by name.

Kevan.8912:

they tried a tricky compromise.
long grind, small stat increase.
but it revealed as a betrayal for no-new-bis casuals, too much effort for little reward for wow_boys.
and made both of them kitten off.

and yeah, maybe part of the population would have quitted anyways, ascended or not, because need steepy “powaaaa” treadmill.

in all cases….anet is wrong
my 2 cent

In all cases, in YOUR OPINION, Anet is wrong. This isn’t a factual statement. In fact, Anet might well be right.

And adding a smilely face after saying Anet is wrong probably doesn’t help your case at all, because it looks like you’re gloating that they’re wrong.

I’m thinking the wurm means it’s not primordus but mordremoth who’s going to be the next dragon we encounter.

Morrigan.2809:

lekyii.9856:

so all your feedback was done in a new world boss and more temporary content!? yep Anet is really listen the community.

I bet we will get more backpacks aswell

you realize this content was probably written months ago right?

I also would like some more back packs- can’t find the right one for 2 of my characters and I am iffy on the shatterer wings on my main

3-4 month lead time on living stories. Nothing discussed in a CDI would have affected the LS yet…not deeply anyway.

I don’t know…it’s not really the same, because a tablet is something physical and what the OP is talking about is something digital.

I sort of know what the OP is going through, but on a larger scale. In Guild Wars 1 my account was hacked and I lost EVERYTHING. I mean years of toil just gone. This was before they’d introduced roll back too, so I was well and truly screwed.

I stopped playing for a while…completely. The problem is, I enjoyed no other game as much as that game and eventually, I came back because I was cutting off my nose to spite my face.

OP, I understand your feelings of frustration but without knowing why things are as they are, it’s hard to judge. That is to say, in my case, I could have given my account info to a friend, who then would have stolen everything from the account, converted it all to cash and started a new account with a huge bank roll, then had everything replaced. It’s almost impossible for them to check that sort of thing.

I didn’t think of it at the time and it was only later, after a long conversation with a CS rep that I realized there are sometimes reasons for things I don’t understand.

It doesn’t make it less frustrating however.

Stark.1350:

Vayne.8563:

bluestocking.6148:

MokahTGS.7850:

I don’t understand why people feel that they should be given something that they don’t deserve. 100% Completion is just that…completion. Asking for the WvW parts to be taken out is the same as asking for vista to be taken out.

Here’s my issue with it. It’s not about it being “too hard” for me to complete. It’s not about my not really wanting to do WvW or PvP, although that’s a little of it.

It’s that if myself and other people are just running around in there to get exploration points, we’re dead weight to the people that actually ARE there for the fight. I don’t want to be that person who’s not helping. I don’t want to take the spot of someone who wanted to participate. It’s like if there was an achievement for completing a dungeon without ever attacking anything. Would you want me on your dungeon run if I was just going to stand around picking my nose until you killed everything?

I know, in the grand scheme of WvW, one player or even 10 running around without actually participating probably doesn’t really make much difference. But some of us are … not jerks? I don’t like the idea of taking up a space to not actually do the content as it is designed.

This is by far the best argument I’ve seen against having to do WvW. This is a great post.

This is not a “great post” – it’s personal opinion and personal feeling on the matter, i.e., is completely irrelevant. People “take up space” to do the jumping puzzle and everything else and I don’t see anyone raging at them for it.

Getting WvW map completion is not hard. Be patient, work on other aspects of your legendary, and wait for the color switch to make it easy. Just keep checking the map all the time. Run in there real quick to grab a quick vista or something when your server has taken something over. Does everyone want everything handed to them these days?

This is a great post is an opinion. It’s not an objective fact. I found the post great, because I agree with it.

This has nothing to do with someone else being angry at you. I don’t even know how you got that from this post. It has to do with feeling that you’re not contributing YOURSELF. It’s something that I’m keenly aware of.

Even in Guild Wars 1, when I entered Jade Quarry for my mapping title and I was looking for what I was missing, instead of helping my team, I was keenly aware that’s what I was doing and I hated every second of it.

So yes, that was a great post….to me.

It would be a rip off if you needed it, that’s for sure.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Vayne.8563:

I was here that first November. I know how many people stopped playing BEFORE ascended gear and grind were introduced.

The grind hasn’t lower the number of players in this game…it’s increased it.

While I agree with what you’re saying about some level of grind needed in any MMO, I do wonder with your last statement if that is a fact? I mean, we know games go through various stages of influx and people leaving, and also a lot of other things have happened besides just Ascended gear etc in the game since that November. How do we know it is the grind specifically that has added players to the game?

I know what I saw back in November, before Fractals came out. Yes it’s annecdotal, but Anet didn’t go against years of what they’d been saying just to kitten off their core fans. They had a reason.

I find it extremely hard to believe that the reason didn’t have something to do with people not playing.

What other reason could they have for putting ascended gear in the game, when they knew full well what the reaction would be (and they did know).

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

You can’t have a MASSIVE multiplayer game without masses. And if everyone walks away…no masses.

There are still people that play the game. The key to me is make more team based activities (raiding) for progression, instead of everyone clumping up and running around Queensdale with strangers.

Yes there are still people that play the game. Part of that is because Anet added grind. Before the Fractals were released, there were people leaving more. Fractals gave people something to do….all MMOs need to give people something to do.

To be sure there are people who can make their own fun and not be led around by the nose, but they’re not the bulk of the population. A lot of people need a clear path. They need busy-work. They need stuff to do in game…and that’s all they need.

I’m not talking about competitive people who’ll bang their head against Liadri or a hard raid for a few days. I’m talking about most people….again, the masses.

Most people never touched the hardest content in Guild Wars 1 either. There was plenty to do for people who wanted to run DOA or the Underworld, or Slavers. But there was also plenty of busy work for everyone else.

MMOs need a certain amount of grind. What it shouldn’t be is required grind.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne.8563:

spiritus.7983:

Vayne.8563:

This is just a bad idea. Removing grind altogether will kill any MMO..

mmo = massively multiplayer online, not massively grinding online

indoctrinated ppl like you shoud go back to the everlasting chinese grinding games

So what’s your solution? This game launched with almost no grind and people left in droves. They left much faster than Anet expected them to (at least that seems to be the case).

Everyone wants to offer commentary, but no one proposes a solution.

Sometimes when this is brought up (and don’t think this is the first MMO board this has been brought up on), someone suggests randomizing dungeons. But randomized dungeons aren’t scripted dungeons and you don’t end up with content people play anyway, because randomizing things like dungeons means a limited pool of creatures, tricks and traps, and the random elements get figured out and posted and people learn them and it’s the same thing. Scripted dungeons are better.

So since you think I should go back to where I was indoctrinated (which was mostly Guild Wars 1, btw), why not suggest a solution to the problem…because it is a problem.

You can’t have a MASSIVE multiplayer game without masses. And if everyone walks away…no masses.

I think, but I’m not sure, that the problem is that people require an objective. Vertical progression can serve as an objective, but it’s not the only possibility.

The mistake, IMO, that ANet made at launch was underestimating how quickly people would both a) finish the core content and b) abandon objectives that seems too out of reach.

There were (and are) a lot of different weapon skins that people could use to trick out their character, but most people either weren’t interested in cosmetics or figured out how hard it would be to get 100 charged lodestones and said forget it. (I got firebringer and I’m sorry I did, since it’s not even ascended)

A few examples I’ve seen over the past year.

For example, you have the dungeon master title, what if, upon getting that title you received a precursor. (Remember, not everyone got one in the Karka event). You work for it and at some predetermined point you get one.

With the precursor out of the way, you’d have an actual incentive to grind out the rest of the materials.

Or, alternatively, what if you had a wardrobe and you had to earn each skin (or buy some of them). Once they were earned they were unlocked (even at a character level) so you could customize your look. Suppose there were lots of different skins to try and get. I’d like that much better than 800 gems for a single use skin.

Or, what if you could actually outfit your home with useful stuff. The nodes are are decent start, but ugh how you get them.

Or, you can have a large number of skills that interact in different ways and make different builds viable. Or you can have 4 “prototypical” builds that ANet always keeps viable, and let people figure out their own weird optimized hybrids, instead of 1-2 viable builds per class. Of course, this may require a non-punishing way to change from Zerker to clerics.

tl;dr: Objectives are needed, they don’t have to be vertical

I’m not saying they have to be vertical. The comment I was responding to said there doesn’t have to be grind. That I disagree with 100%. Guild Wars 1 had grind. There’s got to be some grind.

Did Anet screw up the reward system in this game initially? Of course they did. There were too many easy things and too many hard things to get and nothing really in the middle.

The problem is, even if they gave away a precusor for the dungeon master title, people would still have to grind out the rest of it, and some people here are saying the game shouldn’t have any grind.

I don’t think that’s realistic.

I’ve said all along that precusors are too hard to get and that they shouldn’t have this huge RNG attached to them. But that has nothing to do with my response or what I was discussing.

spiritus.7983:

Vayne.8563:

This is just a bad idea. Removing grind altogether will kill any MMO..

mmo = massively multiplayer online, not massively grinding online

indoctrinated ppl like you shoud go back to the everlasting chinese grinding games

So what’s your solution? This game launched with almost no grind and people left in droves. They left much faster than Anet expected them to (at least that seems to be the case).

Everyone wants to offer commentary, but no one proposes a solution.

Sometimes when this is brought up (and don’t think this is the first MMO board this has been brought up on), someone suggests randomizing dungeons. But randomized dungeons aren’t scripted dungeons and you don’t end up with content people play anyway, because randomizing things like dungeons means a limited pool of creatures, tricks and traps, and the random elements get figured out and posted and people learn them and it’s the same thing. Scripted dungeons are better.

So since you think I should go back to where I was indoctrinated (which was mostly Guild Wars 1, btw), why not suggest a solution to the problem…because it is a problem.

You can’t have a MASSIVE multiplayer game without masses. And if everyone walks away…no masses.

Osi.3504:

lordkrall.7241:

You are making a massive mistake here.
You are under the impression that the gem-store is priced based on what the conversation between Gold – Gems is, which is very much incorrect.
They always base prices on gem-costs, not gem-gold costs.

The game needs to make money in order to survive.

Most of the money goes to other games anyways, so don’t act like it doesn’t already make enough money. gw2 has earned more money in 7 months than gw1 did in 7 years which sold far more accounts than gw2… and yet everything new costs $$, at least gw1 gave everything at events away for free for the most part.

Secondly you have to be smart upon purchases, who wants to buy the new dye packs with a 1 in 5 chance (550 gems/60 gold for 1 dye on average) when they are all listed for 20-45 gold each and it would be wiser to just buy them off the TP and get more for your money? Those that buy the dye packs are generally unaware of this situation before buying.

Actually prices matter a heap, some people can see when its obviously not worth it.

If it was gemstore armor/skins or tools that are considered priceless that would be a different story, this item offers us in-game items that give us money in return.

You do the math, its by far not worth it.

In order to do the math, you have to have all the numbers. You’re making a huge number of assumptions here that not only can’t be proven, but are likely wrong.

Most of the money goes to other games…you know this how? Guild Wars 2 made more money… probably but it has a much much larger overheard…bigger staff, more investment initially, bigger offices. If you’re not Anet’s accountant (and I’m pretty sure that’s the case), you have no idea if they’re making more or they’re not making more.

Different day, different game, different overhead, different market. Your guesses are just guesses and should be presented that way, instead of stating things as fact.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

I really don’t understand this at all. The idea that somehow dangerous foes have to be big.

Last time I checked, the creatures that have caused the most deaths on the planet earth were fleas and mosquitos…and not the giant kind either.

When I see a giant boss, in games were all bosses are giant, I think, here we go again. The only way to make a boss more powerful is to make him bigger.

Superman and spiderman are pretty powerful and they’re human sized. Why does a boss have to be big to be dangerous?

Edit: Even in Guild Wars 1, in the Ring of Fire mission (the last mission in Prophecies), the tiny sparks were far more dangerous than the giant titans. They were far more likely to kill you.

In MMOs, tougher monsters tend to require larger groups of players to defeat. Larger groups of players can make it tough to see what’s going on unless the monster is of a larger size. It can be tough to time interrupts and dodges against PC-sized or smaller monsters if you can’t see the attack cues through the throng of characters surrounding it. Ergo many, not all, tough MMO monsters are large.

Many of the toughest monsters in the game, all of them in fact, would be in instances, so you’d only have 5 people fighting them though.

False; there are plenty of tough monsters found in the open world. I could list many, but I won’t bother. The fact is MMO developers have been making difficult monsters bigger than their counterparts for more than a decade. That you think size and difficulty shouldn’t be tied together doesn’t matter, because they are. And they have been. And they will continue to be so.

As I’ve already said, anyone who’s played Guild Wars 1 knows that very powerful foes can be very small. It happened all the time. Big titans weren’t nearly as dangerous as titan sparks. Not even close. But the sparks were small enough to get lost if you didn’t know to look for them. And that made the content more challenging.

As for what game developers have been doing for a decade, I could care less. Clearly most MMOs in the last five years really haven’t be successful because everyone is doing the same thing. So maybe, just maybe, it’s time for devs to do something different.

Just about the worst defense anyone can use for something to be in a game is that it’s been like that for years.

If pugging was the only way to do dungeons, I’d never do a dungeon again. But I have a dungeon master title. I made friends. I joined a guild of like minded people. I have fun playing.

If you want to do harder content, but you don’t want to pug…then do harder content and don’t pug.

It’s an easy solution to an all to common problem.

Kevan.8912:

chemiclord.3978:

Vayne.8563:

People played Guild Wars 1 for years, without any stat progression on armor or weapons. What they got instead was new and better skills. And you could level up some skills, so they did more. That to me was far more fun than getting better gear.

Honestly, I fail to see the difference, really.

They’re BOTH tedium, whether you’re grinding reputation to improve your skills or grinding to get materials to craft gear. I also find it rather silly that players think one is awesome (probably because of the novelty) and the other is a soul-crushing chore.

Vertical progression is vertical progression, no matter what pretty wrapping paper you put it in.

both boring, but VP through new better gear is a direct “power” increase.
skills and rep is a more “oblique” way, but i’m sure it’s long and grindy too.

so would be better to remove grind at all.
grind is only a trick to make people play, without admitting a lack of contents.
and VP is the most effective way to force ppl to grind,
while cosmetic items , for the typical mmo gamer, is not sufficiently rewarding to deserve 10000000hrs of repetitive tasks

This is just a bad idea. Removing grind altogether will kill any MMO.

The math is pretty simple. You can make X number of hours of content for any MMO. That’s it. That’s what you can make. If you program for five years, maybe that’s 100 hours of content…if that. (Yes I’m making these numbers up but the point is valid anyway).

People expect to spend hundreds if not thousands of hours on an MMO. It’s the expectation. If you don’t give people something to do, even if it is busy work, no one will stay in the game…and nothing dies faster than an MMO that no one is playing.

Guild Wars 1 had grind too….it wasn’t required grind, but a lot of the titles were grindy. People stayed to do those titles and for other reasons as well. Without the people who did that, you’d end up with a whole lot less people playing.

Less people mean less funding.

So, a themepark MMO (which this is), can’t create infinite content, and as a result goes under if all grind is removed.

Which means companies stop investing millions of dollars in MMOs, because why put that kind of money into a project and take that kind of risk if no one is going to play it.

I was here that first November. I know how many people stopped playing BEFORE ascended gear and grind were introduced.

The grind hasn’t lower the number of players in this game…it’s increased it.

I feel more sympathy for them than I do for you.

They’re so insecure, they apparently need to belittle others to feel good about themselves.

I wouldn’t sweat it if I were you. But it’s one of the main reasons I’m not a PvPer. I do okay when I do it but I don’t really like the stupidity that often accompanies it. WvW is a lot better for me.

The only difference is that now people level with the champ train and often with living world content. That’s an important difference.

Some people really enjoyed leveling on Southsun or in the Queen’s Pavillion as an example. Of course, if you don’t enjoy zergs, you won’t much enjoy leveling that way anyway. But it is pretty profitable.

We don’t always seen eye to eye, OP, but this is one of the finest posts I’ve ever read. Kudos to you.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

My guild is having fun. We’re also chatty. Sometimes that chat is on mumble though and not in guild chat. We laugh all the time.

Sometimes too much I think.

Stop drinking Zommoros’ wine. Drink the fine norn ale instead.

My guild is okay right now, most of us have lives keeping us busy and schedules which don’t mesh.

However, still is fun to poke my head in for a couple hours a day and finish Dailies, a few jumping puzzles, maybe a little progress on Living Story chapters or whatever I want to do that day. If it’s being let known something like Temple runs are happening then I jump in on them; I find them a lot of fun.

But….but….I like that wine. It’s got a sort of fruity undertones with a rich body that never fails to please the palate. ;-)

My guild is having fun. We’re also chatty. Sometimes that chat is on mumble though and not in guild chat. We laugh all the time.

Sometimes too much I think.

Devata.6589:

Vayne.8563:

Marvo Pandaros XXV.7239:

So you want linear progression. If that works for you, that’s great.

I don’t particularly want linear progression. If I’m good enough to do a higher level dungeon without doing a lower level one, I should be able to.

Which leads to the problem of having lvl 80 players that have no clue what they are doing in harder dungeons. I’ve seen lvl 80 players who didn’t have a clue what they doing in AC b4 it was patched smh. At least being lvl 80 should mean that you have a certain lvl of expertise; not that you just ran through game cause its causal friendly and show no true skills that you have progressively developed as a player.

Bad players will be carried through easier dungeons and they will remain bad players. I’ve played with people who have their dungeon master title and are still bad players. And I’m not judging them. I’m sure they have reason to not be that good at the game. Bad internet connection maybe, on prescription meds, dyslexic, having kids running around in the background who they have to deal with….

Having linear progression doesn’t insure good players. I’ve played with bad players in every game that has linear progression. Those who are interested in playing better will get better. Those who aren’t, aren’t going to get better.

Dyslexic makes you a bad gamer?[/quote]

It doesn’t make you a bad gamer, but it can cause issues. I’ve played with a dyslexic and sometimes he didn’tt see or read something right, including health or damage numbers. Doesn’t happen often (and obviously it’s not anyone’s fault and no one blames him), but it has led to the occasional issue. Might have had some other vision problem too…I honestly can’t remember…I was just citing random examples off the top of my head. Hell insomnia can cause slower reaction times too.

Marvo Pandaros XXV.7239:

So you want linear progression. If that works for you, that’s great.

I don’t particularly want linear progression. If I’m good enough to do a higher level dungeon without doing a lower level one, I should be able to.

Which leads to the problem of having lvl 80 players that have no clue what they are doing in harder dungeons. I’ve seen lvl 80 players who didn’t have a clue what they doing in AC b4 it was patched smh. At least being lvl 80 should mean that you have a certain lvl of expertise; not that you just ran through game cause its causal friendly and show no true skills that you have progressively developed as a player. [/quote]

Bad players will be carried through easier dungeons and they will remain bad players. I’ve played with people who have their dungeon master title and are still bad players. And I’m not judging them. I’m sure they have reason to not be that good at the game. Bad internet connection maybe, on prescription meds, dyslexic, having kids running around in the background who they have to deal with….

Having linear progression doesn’t insure good players. I’ve played with bad players in every game that has linear progression. Those who are interested in playing better will get better. Those who aren’t, aren’t going to get better.

Hi I’m Vayne, and I like the living story. My wife does too. So do some of my guild mates. There’s a buzz of excitement in the guild before each living story update.

And while I’d welcome new zones, I STILL like the living story and would be sad for it to go away. The living story serves a purpose even if it doesn’t serve your purpose.

And zones aren’t full to overflow on patch days because no one likes it.

I did that when the game first came out. Made a character that looked very much like me. I never posted a picture of it though, because no one should be looking directly at me without the special safety goggles. lol

Very cool, OP!

WRay.2391:

timidobserver.7925:

WRay.2391:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I do believe that economics played an important role in the Ascended decision. We’ll never know what might have happened if ANet had opted to provide the promised horizontal/cosmetic progression rather than shallow vertical progression. They had the opportunity to push the alternative MMO progression they advertised. However, it doesn’t take an economist to realize that adding Ascended Rings and a back-piece took a lot less resources than developing the robust options for skill-based and/or cosmetic progression that would have been needed for HP.

It also doesn’t take a programmer to realize the difficulty of retooling some things which are desperately called for (ranger pets, “DPS is king”, “Traherne killed my story”) are expensive in employee hours and requirement for creating new assets in some cases to handle it without botching.

Right now, Arenanet has their focus on finishing out their Living World “Season 1” with Scarlet. They have their CDI notes, but we know nothing significant and quick is going to come out of them.

Even if they hit the brakes right now on everything else and started working on something purely horizontal progression, we would probably be . . . I’ll say three months from seeing it hit live release.

During which, there’s the risk of people departing because there’s no longer anything to do except wait.

Yeah. If ANET will not change things until D3 RoS will be released I’m out. Grinding for gear is much more fun in D3 as it was DESIGNED for this. You get gear by killing monster – simple what about this game is. And Blizzard at least heard players – no more RMAH, loot better, mystic that will allow to change stats on the gear.

GW2 was designed to not have gear grind. They added it but didn’t give any new content with it. Like really ?! I need to go and grind for middle tier mats with my lvl 80 char in low level zones ?! Best design ever !

Your point is absolutely the only valid point I have ever seen against vertical progression. I am for vertical progression, but I agree entirely that it is pretty lame to release a new gear tier with no content to support it.

Instead, you go and farm eons of low level mats or….. convert money to gems and buy the mats.

LoL I’m sure that was one of the reasons. Exactly that is why I will never buy gems from ANET anymore until they’ll fix this at least at some extent. If I’ll need gold so badly I’ll prefer to buy it from some gold spammer in current circumstances.

Because supporting people who used hacked and stolen accounts is going to help the game. There’s never an excuse to buy from a gold seller.

WRay.2391:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I do believe that economics played an important role in the Ascended decision. We’ll never know what might have happened if ANet had opted to provide the promised horizontal/cosmetic progression rather than shallow vertical progression. They had the opportunity to push the alternative MMO progression they advertised. However, it doesn’t take an economist to realize that adding Ascended Rings and a back-piece took a lot less resources than developing the robust options for skill-based and/or cosmetic progression that would have been needed for HP.

It also doesn’t take a programmer to realize the difficulty of retooling some things which are desperately called for (ranger pets, “DPS is king”, “Traherne killed my story”) are expensive in employee hours and requirement for creating new assets in some cases to handle it without botching.

Right now, Arenanet has their focus on finishing out their Living World “Season 1” with Scarlet. They have their CDI notes, but we know nothing significant and quick is going to come out of them.

Even if they hit the brakes right now on everything else and started working on something purely horizontal progression, we would probably be . . . I’ll say three months from seeing it hit live release.

During which, there’s the risk of people departing because there’s no longer anything to do except wait.

Yeah. If ANET will not change things until D3 RoS will be released I’m out. Grinding for gear is much more fun in D3 as it was DESIGNED for this. You get gear by killing monster – simple what about this game is. And Blizzard at least heard players – no more RMAH, loot better, mystic that will allow to change stats on the gear.

GW2 was designed to not have gear grind. They added it but didn’t give any new content with it. Like really ?! I need to go and grind for middle tier mats with my lvl 80 char in low level zones ?! Best design ever !

Way to not understand how the game works.

You don’t EVER have to grind mats in a middle level zone. You can run dungeons, play around in Orr, earn gold and buy low level mats on the trading post. There’s no real grinding involved, unless for some odd reason you absolutely MUST get the mats yourself.

In a game where anyone can go anywhere, only the people who want to go back to those zones have to. Everyone else can do whatever tasks they like that make money. Dungeons work. Fractals work. Following the champ train works. Playing the marketplace works. Going and doing world events works.

No one is telling you you have to take your character into low level zones. That’s a mental thing, based on the idea that you don’t want to throw gold at the mats you need.

On the topic of speed runs, only a small percentage of very visible people do them. It’s efficient at making money, and it’s competitive. It’s also a misnomer that most players do this.

The truth is most players probably run dungeons very rarely or not at all. Dungeons aren’t welcoming. They’re hard content for people not used to them.

The elitists among us would have us believe they’re doing us some great favor showing us how to play a game more efficiently. It’s funny, because in real life I’m very efficient, but when I stop to relax for the evening the very last thing I care about is efficiency. I believe more players are like this than are speed runners.

My advice to you OP is to find a nice casual guild, and enjoy dungeons without worrying about a small minority of elitists who think their way to play is “the” way to play.

Halvorn.9831:

Matisse.9356:

Why should the glass be half-full, when it is so much better half-empty, is it not?

Why would you accept a half-full glass when you can ask for a completeley filled one?

There’s no such thing as a half full glass. It’s always all full—half water/half air.

bluestocking.6148:

MokahTGS.7850:

I don’t understand why people feel that they should be given something that they don’t deserve. 100% Completion is just that…completion. Asking for the WvW parts to be taken out is the same as asking for vista to be taken out.

Here’s my issue with it. It’s not about it being “too hard” for me to complete. It’s not about my not really wanting to do WvW or PvP, although that’s a little of it.

It’s that if myself and other people are just running around in there to get exploration points, we’re dead weight to the people that actually ARE there for the fight. I don’t want to be that person who’s not helping. I don’t want to take the spot of someone who wanted to participate. It’s like if there was an achievement for completing a dungeon without ever attacking anything. Would you want me on your dungeon run if I was just going to stand around picking my nose until you killed everything?

I know, in the grand scheme of WvW, one player or even 10 running around without actually participating probably doesn’t really make much difference. But some of us are … not jerks? I don’t like the idea of taking up a space to not actually do the content as it is designed.

This is by far the best argument I’ve seen against having to do WvW. This is a great post.