Guild Wars 2

I think you couldn’t change it now without kittening off people who have been working very hard to stay on that leaderboard. I think there needs to be a second leaderboard with all that stuff removed.

I mean, think about it, if you’ve been doing every single day, every single day for a year just to stay on that leaderboard, how would you react if suddenly all those points were removed?

It’s not fair to people who do every daily every day for all that time. It’s also true it’s not fair to new players for that to count.

The only fair solution is to make another/different leaderboard but leave that one untouched.

Elbegast.6970:

Taygus.4571:

Elbegast.6970:

I’m 80 and I’m still a noob. I’ve never done a group dungeon/fractal, sPvP, farmed for a legendary/ascended item nor have I ever joined a guild or even so much as joined a party/group for anything. And I have been playing fairly steady for over a year.

" I’ve never done ….."
Can I ask why?

because you’re not a noob for not doing something you have no interest in. (yeah you might not know anything about it, but if you don’t want to know, it doesn’t really matter..)

However, if you do want to, why haven’t you?

I don’t like having to beg others to carry me through content. If I can’t do it alone, then I just won’t do it.

I don’t carry peiople through content and content isn’t designed to solo. But you can have someone show you the ropes and then learn to get better and hold your own so you can then help others.

Do you think the first time I walked into Arah I soloed Lupi? lol

People were good enough to show me the ropes…now I show other people the ropes.

Destiny’s Edge was a guild. They are at war with the elder dragons. They fought and defeated dragon champions.

Guild Wars doesn’t have to mean guild vs. guild. It can mean guild vs. environment.

Find a helpful guild and play with other people. It’s okay to let them know you’re a newb, some people get real enjoyment out of showing others the ropes.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! Id dint’t complete it ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

Well, your entire server isn’t excluded, because your entire server guested to a busier server, except for the five guys left behind who aren’t interested in doing the content because they absolutely insist on doing it on their server.

Anet provided the solution, why so much resistance to it?

This is your answer? Are you serious? Because this is not a solution.

There are soooo… many things that they should do to fix those open world bosses… And world guesting is only one of them.

It is my answer. I’m not sure why you find that troubling.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

I think people are spoiled.

Ah, the “you’re spoiled” card…how original. “If you have criticisms of this game then you must be spoiled, because I think it’s fine the way it is.”

Vayne.8563:

There’s two weeks now, one of which is mostly passed, before the next update. I think that’s the point.

It’s not like we didn’t have two week updates for the last several months before the Christmas break.

I don’t care if there are daily updates if the quality of the updates isn’t up to par or the content of the updates is uninteresting. That’s the point.

Vayne.8563:

I’d also like to note that a lot of people were asking for a break from the two week content, because they felt overwhelmed by the content. That’s not a complaint I’ve often heard in response to MMO patch updates.

That’s probably because most MMO patch updates don’t drop a checklist in your lap and tell you you’ve got two weeks to finish it before it’s taken away and another checklist is dumped in your lap. People are usually free to enjoy MMO patch updates at their own pace.

You’ve probably never played Rift. lol

havoc.6814:

It was all over these forums, on their main website, on Reddit, on Facebook…. I’d call that pretty huge.

If you remember the one thread someone posted about it on these forums (and no Anet did NOT post a thread about it), it was littered with people saying things like “really? I had no idea” and a bunch of other people saying how much they hate face book and want nothing to do with it.

SlingDash add me in game…use the name Cador Shrike. Press Y to get to your friend’s list.

Type Cador Shrike into the top box and click on the plus button all the way to the right of that box.

You can send me a whisper by right clicking on my name and clicking on the whisper option. I can help you from there if you like.

I agree, the Marionette fight, as much as I like it, is a bad design. The achievements, the way you can’t help people on other platforms…all of it. It could have been handled better.

And I still enjoy it more than the Shatterer.

Huge ad campaign lmao! Do you remember how many people had never heard anything about it posting here? lol

Welcome back OP. Your questions are easy to answer….and not so easy.

Berserker gear is still generally considered the best for the PvE meta. If you’re a speedrunner type of player and that sort of thing is what you’re interested in, that’s the only game in town. But there are plenty of people who don’t use zerker and do clear content, albeit less efficiently. Also some encounters have now been designed that make zerker quite useless, such as the new Tequatl encounter, since he can’t be crit, or affected by conditions.

You can easily do the new events in rares. A dodge is still a dodge and reflects still reflect and condition removal doesn’t have much to do with your armor. I don’t know any content in the game that requires exotics to beat.

The grind for ascended gear is pretty bad and requires crafting. Fortunately you don’t even need exotics to clear content.

Inflation, from what I can tell, is pretty high…but I’ll leave the economists among us to answer more fully.

laokoko.7403:

Yes I get you Vayne. I’m just pointing out if there is not a problem. There wont’ be this many people complaining.

There are actually quite a bit of people that dont’ like the way things are implemented.

And the main reason things work in GW2 is because of multi guild design. And actually the raid isn’t that difficult compare to those other games. Take that away, it’s just like the other mmorpg.

I agree. And I’m saying that I know that in other games I’ve played, quite a lot of people complained about raids. If Anet instances this stuff, I’d wager more people would complain than are complaining now. That’s just my best guess.

Instancing this stuff is not the answer to the problem. There may well be other solutions but I don’t believe instancing is a good one.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

TTS gets people on their own server, so that they get get more people into the fight, among other things.

So if you are not in TTS you can’t do the raid content? That is exactly what is happening. Since people not in TTS can’t down the boss.

The truth is there are probably more people doing instanced raid in other game than this open world raid boss in GW2.

All I’m saying is this “design the game for 5%-10%” you said is actually what is happening.

I get it you like this open world raid thing. You can’t deny there are probably as much people who disagree with you. Since there are(not necessary me) who don’t like this open world raid boss.

I’m saying you always support the things you like only. You never listen to other people and just think other people are just wrong.

When the reality they are just people that might not like the things you like.

I agree that people may like other things. I’ve acknowledge that. But from long experience in MMOs, after numerous polls across many years, what makes you believe most people like raiding or consider themselves raiders?

There are probably as many people soloing MMOs as there are raiders. This is my gut feeling.

Instances won’t do anything to help this game in my opinion that’s all. I’m not saying people don’t like them. I’m saying that casual players WILL be left out.

Right now, ANYONE can join TTS and I do mean anyone. It’s open for everyone. Your server doesn’t matter. They don’t ask you about how good you are, or what your build is or what gear you have.

Once this becomes instanced content, you will see a completely different set of issues arise. No one can stop me from participating now in a TTS raid, unless I break the very generous TTS rules.

On the other hand, I’ve had some experience with raid guilds in the past and most of the ones I’ve played with are simply bad. I wouldn’t encourage this game to do anything that creates that kind of mentality.

Even the five man instances right now, you can see that mentality in some of the players. I’d rather not see this sort of thing grow.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

What unwanted people? Who’s denied access to that guild? It’s quite a bad analogy if you ask me. I’ve seen what raiding guilds are like. I’ve seen what TTS is like. I don’t even see how you can compare them.

Dude why did TTS need to get their own people to their own freaking overflow to do the content. They want to get rid of the unwanted people.

I don’t have any problem with Anet designing anything. I’m not a game designer, what the heck do I know.

It’s just everything you said is already happening. The content is only doable for those 5-10% or is that like 1% of the people. Tell me what percent of people playing GW2 is actually in TTS.

Everything you said about inclusion and Anet making content for those few percentage of people is already happening. Oh ya you forget TTS “is” a raiding guild. They dont’ want to play with other scrub. So they make their own guild so they can get rid of scrub.

The funny thing? There are probabaly more people doing instanced raid in other mmorpg than people doing open world raid in GW2. So much about exclusion.

Me personally I dont’ think there is any problem with making content for 5% of the people. I just think it is funny everything you hate is want happening right now.

TTS gets people on their own server, so that they get get more people into the fight, among other things. If there are a dozen people on the main server, that’s a dozen less people fighting Tequatl.

Another reason is the six guns. They DO want people they can trust on those guns because those guns are extremely important to the fight. No one is excluded from joining the guild and thus getting onto the overflow. Hell they accepted me.

If they were that exclusive and elitist, I promise you, I would not be among the chosen.

Actually there is a death penalty in this game, and you do work it off. It’s not damaged armor though.

It’s that little arrow every time you die that appears in the health orb. The more you die, the darker it gets. You get less and less time in the downed state. Eventually, if the arrow turns red, you skip the downed state and die immediately.

That death penalty does fade if you don’t get downed again. It’s an attrition mechanic to stop people from doing stuff that’s too hard for them.

HiddenNick.7206:

Vayne.8563:

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

I just logged in to my server and there is no one there! Event is going but no one cares! Because there is always not enough players here. My entire server is excluded from the event! ENTIRE SERVER! There is only one way to complete the event: you get into overflow. So you need to have a friend on an overflow! Or find the server that have so many players on the map so get into overflow instead!

Its way easier to get into raid! And you also have much higher chance to complete it.

I don’t know about you but my experience with Teq/Wurm is HORRIBLE! Id dint’t complete it ONCE! And I have NO idea how can I do it!!! Because it’s not about my skills! Its about finding 200 players that actually CAN do it! And that frustrates me!

Well, your entire server isn’t excluded, because your entire server guested to a busier server, except for the five guys left behind who aren’t interested in doing the content because they absolutely insist on doing it on their server.

Anet provided the solution, why so much resistance to it?

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

I never defend instanced raid. I’m saying you are already doing instanced raid.

You join a guild called TTS. Everyone try to find an instance for yourself. So they can leave the unwanted people out.

Maybe Anet should stop making content for the 5-10% of the people who join TTS. Or maybe like 1% or less. Like you said.

ps. Maybe they should actually make Tequatl instanced for hardcore guild such as TTS. ANd make an easy version for the rest of people. Please stop making “casual people” do this coordinate hardcore open world boss which just doesn’t work.

What unwanted people? Who’s denied access to that guild? It’s quite a bad analogy if you ask me. I’ve seen what raiding guilds are like. I’ve seen what TTS is like. I don’t even see how you can compare them.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

That is like saying anyone can join a guild to do instanced raid. Do you know there are times I can’t do Tequatl because the TTS instance is full? Oh wait, I need to join 1 hour prior to the instance start and maybe I’ll have a chance.

You said there are times the 2nd overflow works, that’s like saying there are times it fail too.

I’m not saying to Anet to make instanced raid. I’m saying those open world raid are already like instanced raid.

I’ve never had to join TTS to get there one hour before an event. Certainly not Teq anyway.

However, we have filled a server and started another one. We’ve had three.

Try that with a raid. 50 people in your guild, 30 raid, and 20 are like but what about us?

It doesn’t work. It’s a bad defense. At least with TTS you have far less of a chance of getting locked out.

And if you don’t think raids take a lot of time to set up, you haven’t done many.

laokoko.7403:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

They are already hidden in instanced called “elite server only” and “TTS overflow”.

Please taxi me in there.

Not that I think there is any easy fix to the current problem.

Except anyone can join TTS and get taxied there. There’s no 40 player limit. Do you know how many times I was on the second overflow, and both beat Tequatl?

I don’t mind hard core content. I don’t want to see it hidden away in instances, that’s all.

Cappy.2786:

lordkrall.7241:

So people that are not part of those “elite groups” that are doing said instanced fights should never be able to do it or even see the fight?

There is currently a grand total of 2 of these fights in the game (Tequatl and Wurm or 3 if you want to count the Marionette.) out of how many?
50?
100?
200?

They should never mechanically lock people out of content, which they would if you were required to be part of a pre-made large group.

You clearly don’t understand.There simply has to be a piece of content only made for the hardcore audience.If everything is made for everyone there is nothing to strive for.Would you rather have an instanced area where you and your guildies could beat the boss in peace,it might take you days or weeks,but the sensation of achivement after beating it would be amazing or would you rather have new fights in this state,with lag,DCs and OFs.Current fights don’t require any brain power for a random participant,it only requires VoIP and good commanders meaning only a couple of people actually have to put effort in while the rest just tag along for the reward.If it was instanced,people could prepare,disscus strategy,trial and error sort of thing.

Back to the topic of everyone getting everything.You might think if you bought the game you are entitled to play through every piece of content,no you aren’t.This is a game and it requires effort to do certain things just like IRL.Putting effort and time into something makes it only that good when you get it.

I guess the question is what percentage of the player base is like you’re suggesting? 5%, 10%? Does anyone really know?

Writing stuff for a small percentage of the playerbase at the expensive of the larger percentage doesn’t seem like such a great investment to me.

A lot of the hard core challenge seekers have left this game already. I’m pretty sure there are more of “us” than there are of “you”.

I’m 52 and playing since launch. Plenty of older players playing Guild Wars 2. My wife plays too in fact.

If you want to chat hit me up in game, on Cador Shrike.

darkace.8925:

zenleto.6179:

What were you doing before this update? The game hasn’t stopped.

This particular defense of the Living Story comes up far to often. Whatever someone enjoyed before this update will eventually run out or grow stale. If they want more content in the vein exploring new zones, experiencing new Personal Story, or trying out new builds they’re out of luck. That means, effectively, the game has or will die for those who don’t enjoy the Living Story. And before you reply with “so go play something else,” remember that a larger community is and always will be better than a smaller one where MMOs are concerned.

Because most games update their content every six weeks.

I think people are spoiled. There’s two weeks now, one of which is mostly passed, before the next update. I think that’s the point.

It’s not like we didn’t have two week updates for the last several months before the Christmas break.

People are saying this isn’t enough content for a two week update. Well it is. It’s six weeks because of the break.

I’d also like to note that a lot of people were asking for a break from the two week content, because they felt overwhelmed by the content. That’s not a complaint I’ve often heard in response to MMO patch updates.

Well for one thing, you can block someone in game. You can’t block someone on the forums. There are a boatload of people who wish they could block my posts. lol

I’ve said this is another thread, and I’m against the implementation of big multiplayer instances. The more of these there are, the less people are in the world. That’s why I don’t believe open world versions could coexist with instanced versions.

Only X number of people play. Only X number of people will show up for these big events. If you make it instanced and balanced for smaller numbers, particularly with equal rewards, a good percentage of those in the open world would do that instead.

This affects my game, because I don’t want to hide away in an instance. I want to be able to do these events in the open world.

I don’t want to try to coordinate 20 people from my guild to get together at the same time to do this. I don’t want to leave player 21 and 22 out, because we don’t have slots for them.

Instances in other games are fraught with problems that I tried to get away from in the first place. It’s why I’m here.

I’d rather Anet worked on a better system for open world raids than they instance stuff that I feel would be better in open world.

Frenk the Vile.2596:

Vayne.8563:

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

OMG.
No, really?
Maybe, because with instances (just like dungeons!) you don’t have to wait a very, very, VERY, frustating TIMER???

And if the first 40 guildies DO IT, then some will go out and help the rest…not the day after, but after 5 minutes?!?!

Man, have you ever played other MMOs? Instances are fun for friends and for making new ones. Where there are no instances, you don’t need to know each other, and that kills the so-called ‘’living world’’, and creates only a massive zergfest, hard to control, to understand, to enjoy.

And to pple that said ‘’i hate elitism’‘, i say: you’re like a parasite to the big guilds that actually struggle to beat it, if YOU are standing AFK or fighting with green-items or dying at the first champ. mob that places an AoE!

Making that boss and its achievments ’’temporay’’ only made things worse…

Most raids in MMOs had lockouts. You started one and you got partway through and then continued later in the week. It wasn’t five minutes.

Half the time you had to grind stuff to make buffs for the guild in between raids. It might be different with the new budget raid finder raids, but don’t give me the crap about 40 people doing the raid and 35 of htem jumping back in right after to do it again with the five people that missed it…because it not only didn’t happen, it couldn’t have happened. Not back in the days of 40 man raids certain it couldn’t.

Rod.6581:

@maddoctor

So, there is exactly 200 of us and we joined some underpopulated server, and everyone of us got in except for Joe. Now, Joe can not join us ‘cos some local player named Mark is doing some gardening on map to level up his cooking. Joe is is sad. And we don’t want to leave our friend Joe alone. So we try talking to Mark and asking him nicely to leave map so Joe can come and play with us. He can do gardening in overflow. But Mark doesn’t give a potato. He tells us that Tyria is a free world and he can do as he please. Sadly, we are forced to try guesting on another server…. Joe did joined us now, but Samuel and Isabella didn’t…. So after 20 guesting servers we finally decide that it is too late to start anything now and we should try it again tomorrow.

How is this different from an instanced raid of 40 people in a guild of 45?

I love the twisted Marionette, but that’s not to say it’s perfect. I don’t like how one bad lane can sink everyone and I don’t like how your achievements are dependent upon others in your lane doing their job.

They’re my achievements, I shouldn’t have to depend on people I can’t even help to get them.

To me, that’s bad design.

Valanga.5942:

Vayne.8563:

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

Nope. The goal of 3.5 mln has been reached after the whole Lost Shores fiasco and Ascendant Grind.
Wich means a lot of people came into the game after that and from there left for never return.
And for “a lot” i don’t mean “a vast majority” or whatever may need you to derail the point… Actually i can’t say (like anyone else) how many of those 3.5 mln are still in game.
It may even be 3.499.999 people and i’m the only one who left.

And for the growing population? You may be right and i don’t doubt you’ve seen more people in the last few months… Or you may be wrong since last time i logged before quitting for good i found my old guild and friends gone, and the server half empty.
I wish i had the same total faith you have in what the devs say, but sadly, after all the sales speech they passed for dev blog i don’t have any left.

The 3.5 million total was reached after the 2 million people that had signed on at launch. Because I’m relatively sure this game launched with 2 million sales. So 1. 5 million people came on after that and it was gradual over time.

I don’t need faith in what the devs say I watch what goes on in game. There’s a percentage of people who hate the marionette fight, but there are plenty of people in game really enjoying it (as well as some posting here on the forums).

There are tons of people saying they hate the wurm fight, but there are people fielding huge groups of people trying to be the first to beat it.

Everyone thinks the way they think is the way most people think. We can’t all be right.

Wow, that’s awesome. Great job!

Rod.6581:

I like Teofa Tsavo’s idea. Same content. Same boss. Same rewards. Same timer. Only you get to make new overflow, with some system that prevents random people to join.

So we have a raid like structure, with chosen people. (people we like to socialize and talk, and have fun together doing stuff) While random antisocial people can do same content at the same time with same rewards in the open world.

Maybe even add scale system to it. So if 50 people joined “raid” overflow, amber wurm needs to swallow only 5 people. But this is maybe too much to ask.

Which screws everyone who doesn’t do that eventually. The worry is that if people make exclusive clubs to do this stuff…ONLY exclusive clubs will do this stuff. And I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t want that…or they’d have done instanced content in the first place.

Valanga.5942:

tolunart.2095:

Yes, I do believe that Anet is doing what is best for the game. And I will continue to use the term “vocal minority” whether you like it or not, because I am able to apply common sense and realize that if the majority of players agreed with them (not just the majority of the forums but everyone playing the game) then the data collected would indicate this.

And what would be this so called “majority of players”?
Because the game sold 3.5 milions of copies, and i hardly believe they are all happily playing the game and praising whatever ANet shove down their throat… In fact, the shape of most of the servers tells us otherwise.
The only difference is that there’s people who comes here and voice their complaints, and people who just goes “meh”, and unistall the game without giving a kitten … Who do you think gives a better feedback on what should be done to retain people?

So what you’re saying is ancient history matters. A good percentage of those 3.5 million people walked away BEFORE Anet made the changes everyone is railing about. So that number becomes very interesting.

The question is is the population NOW growing or shrinking. If it’s growing Anet is doing the right thing. If it’s shrinking then maybe not. They’ve said its’ growing. I see it growing.

Does it have the same people who bought it pre launch? Of course not. Does WoW still have 12.4 million players? Ummm no.

All MMOs tend to lose business over time, until they go free to play which is a whole different ball game. Partly because you can create as many accounts as you want for free.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

Phadde.7362:

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

But of those guilds aren’t doing the open world content anyway because it sucks, why does it matter?

It’s very reasonable to argue that adding an instanced alternative would make the Open World version suffer. The instanced version shouldn’t be released at the same time, because of this.

Instead, wouldn’t it make sense to release the instanced version (in a seprate part of the Mists so that it makes sense) a week or so after the original one has ended?

I really like this idea. My only question will be this…

Will the people who want this, knowing an instance is coming if they just wait, not play the content in the world and therefore end up in the situation I outlined above.

This dividing of the playerbase thing isn’t just my concern, it’s a concern Anet themselves have expressed before…in more than one comment.

If so many people want it instanced that it prevents the open world event from being done, then clearly the majority has spoken and it should be instanced. If people flood the open world event and are having fun doing that then they will stay in the open world and do it.

If the game has so few players that splitting the content into an instanced and an open world version cause the event not to be completed then I think the game has much more pressing concerns.

I mean you are always telling people that they can guest for free to complete the content when there aren’t enough players, so shouldn’t you just take your own advice in this case if it was instanced and available in the open world? Surely there are 100 players between all the servers that would want to complete it in the open world and not in an instance? They can just all guest together and organize, that is what 12 out of the 20 or so servers already have to do for Teq.

Sorry but your logic doesn’t follow. Let’s say 40% of the people want instanced. 40% isn’t a majority. But taking 40% of the people out of the world will in fact prevent the world from doing it. Even 30% might do that.

I don’t think the majority of people would prefer instances. I think that’s a complete misnomer. Even in games with raids, the majority of the playerbase doesn’t identify themselves as raiders.

So what makes you think in a game with no raids, the majority of the playerbase would be interested in more instances?

This whole breaks immersion argument isn’t a good one. Yes, in the middle ages, people used mounts to go everywhere and do everything.

That’s because in the middle ages people didn’t have waypoints. Had they had waypoints, and Asuran portals, mounts might have been less of an issue.

What you’re doing is breaking your own immersion in the game by not recognizing the convenience of waypoints in game. Waypoints exist in game as part of the game.

Having mounts everywhere would break immersion. lol

Azreell.1568:

Casmurro.9046:

. But you need to understand that this is not WoW, you can’t play GW2 with a WoW mentality.

You mean we aren’t suppose to have fun?

Love it or hate it blizzard tends to give players what they want thus why the game is so popular.

I have yet to see Anet follow that model – We are playing the game the devs want us to play not the game we want to play.

I was a WoW player and Blizzard didn’t give me what I want. It’s popular, at least in part, because it came out at a time when there was VERY little competition in that slot. People got invested in it and bought into it.

But for each person who got what they want, I believe there are 2 or 3 that disliked the game so much, it drove people in herds away from MMOs. It gave players like you what you wanted, maybe. That’s all it did.

Phadde.7362:

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

But of those guilds aren’t doing the open world content anyway because it sucks, why does it matter?

It’s very reasonable to argue that adding an instanced alternative would make the Open World version suffer. The instanced version shouldn’t be released at the same time, because of this.

Instead, wouldn’t it make sense to release the instanced version (in a seprate part of the Mists so that it makes sense) a week or so after the original one has ended?

I really like this idea. My only question will be this…

Will the people who want this, knowing an instance is coming if they just wait, not play the content in the world and therefore end up in the situation I outlined above.

This dividing of the playerbase thing isn’t just my concern, it’s a concern Anet themselves have expressed before…in more than one comment.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

I got into the main server today and hung out doing events in that server, while waiting for the event to start. I certainly didn’t stand there for an hour doing nothing. I farmed mats, I did some events, I explored a bit. I tried to climb up places I hadn’t been able to climb in the past.

Even just going around killing stuff is better than standing and waiting for an hour.

So, basically, killing time.

Yeah, I can do that once, twice… but not every time.

I’ve killed so many hours in Sparkfly Fen and dedicated TTS overflows waiting for Tequatl that I really don’t ever want to go there anymore. It used to be one of my favourite maps (love the jungle).

There was a time when I played GW2 and never, ever felt like I was killing time. It was better.

I don’t know. I didn’t feel like I was killing time. I was having fun. I was with guldies. We were laughing and joking around, waiting for the thing to start.

We WERE waiting,. but it wasn’t different from what we do most days. The entire game, from that perspective, is killing time.

There’s nothing so immediate I need to do in this game, so vital, besides maybe the living story before it goes away. Everything else?

Well it would be interesting to see whether you still feel that way after so and so many runs.

Vayne.8563:

I have all the time in the world.

I wish I could say the same. Unfortunately my play time is limited to a couple nights a week after work hours. Spending 40 minutes waiting (trying to keep busy with things that I wouldn’t have done otherwise) for a 15 minute activity is not what I need from my hobbies right now.

It’s very much like going to Disneyland and spending 50 minutes in a line for a 3 minute ride. You can admire the landscape and chat with your friends, but if you were to go to Disneyland 3 days a week, on a time budget, spending more time in queues than on rides would get old pretty flippin’ soon.

Well, I sort of agree. If you don’t have that much time to play and you don’t have that much time to do the new content, and there’s other stuff you enjoy, do that. Some people in my guild are in your boat and they don’t worry about every living story thing that comes out, because they don’t have the time.

They keep working on the other stuff they were working on.

Anet has to design content for everyone. People like you and people like me. There’s stuff for everyone to do.

You can log in at the last minute, attempt the new content, which takes half an hour, then go to LA and watch the new story scenes (if you like that sort of thing). You can keep working on a legendary or run dungeons or Fractals or WvW. All that stuff is still there.

But Anet also needs to keep people entertained who play a lot. That’s the issue really. It’s a very hard balance to pull off.

If I didn’t have stuff to do, over a period of time, I’d play less. If I (and people like me) play less there’s less people in the world.

If people who can play twice a week don’t show up those two times a week…generally speaking, it’ll affect the overall world population quite a bit less, unless there are significantly more of them.

I’m not saying it’s cool or it’s good or it’s easy. I’m saying the reality is, they can’t make the game for people who can only play a couple of times a week.

Azreell.1568:

The reality is – GW2 does indeed have less players since you left.

Not sure why everyone is so afraid to admit that.

The lack of any real content being released and a LS which has the player base split that some “like” it and some “hate” it. It’s not really any wonder.

Add into the fact after a 6 week break from any patches and all we receive are 2 poorly designed bosses and some reskins and yes – people will continue to leave.

The reason I am being so harsh on GW2 is because I do like this game, but they are drowning as shown by NCsofts q3 profit reports due to very poor development decisions.

Many people are giving the until the next “large update” patch which is suppose to be in april. If they once again screw that one up – I don’t think there will be much hope in store for gw2.

The reality is, you have zero actual evidence to support this. That’s the reality.

One group of people and one alone knows if business is better or worse.

I remember a huge downturn of people in November after release. There certainly seem to be, to me, more people now than then.

But it doesn’t matter what it seems to me, because that’s pretty much as anecdotal as what you’re saying. I could be wrong. You could be wrong.

No one really knows but Anet.

Zeldain.5710:

Vayne.8563:

You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

But of those guilds aren’t doing the open world content anyway because it sucks, why does it matter?

Proof? Just your opinion.

Many people seem to be doing it. My guild is doing it…at least most of the people in it are…and we seem to be having a good time doing it.

People joined TTS to do Tequatl. Maybe they didn’t do it in their own guild but it doesn’t mean they’re not doing it, or it’s not being done.

Do you know who knows who’s actually doing it and who’s not? Anet. They know what percentage of people ARE doing this open world content. They keep making more of it.

That should tell us something.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Vayne.8563:

I got into the main server today and hung out doing events in that server, while waiting for the event to start. I certainly didn’t stand there for an hour doing nothing. I farmed mats, I did some events, I explored a bit. I tried to climb up places I hadn’t been able to climb in the past.

Even just going around killing stuff is better than standing and waiting for an hour.

So, basically, killing time.

Yeah, I can do that once, twice… but not every time.

I’ve killed so many hours in Sparkfly Fen and dedicated TTS overflows waiting for Tequatl that I really don’t ever want to go there anymore. It used to be one of my favourite maps (love the jungle).

There was a time when I played GW2 and never, ever felt like I was killing time. It was better.

I don’t know. I didn’t feel like I was killing time. I was having fun. I was with guldies. We were laughing and joking around, waiting for the thing to start.

We WERE waiting,. but it wasn’t different from what we do most days. The entire game, from that perspective, is killing time.

There’s nothing so immediate I need to do in this game, so vital, besides maybe the living story before it goes away. Everything else?

I have all the time in the world.

I got into the main server today and hung out doing events in that server, while waiting for the event to start. I certainly didn’t stand there for an hour doing nothing. I farmed mats, I did some events, I explored a bit. I tried to climb up places I hadn’t been able to climb in the past.

Even just going around killing stuff is better than standing and waiting for an hour.

Azreell.1568:

The point that this is even being brought up means there is currently a large problem with this game.

I don’t understand this comment. Stuff is brought up all the time. This is one person’s opinion who doesn’t like something and he’s suggesting that if people don’t like it they shouldn’t do it. He could have said the same about green dye. If you don’t like green dye and don’t want more green dye, don’t buy green dye. If no one bought the green dye and no one used it, Anet would stop making it.

How does that indicate a large problem in the game.

I did it differently from you. I dislike the whole checklist thing. I want reasons to go back to zones and maybe see stuff I never saw before.

So I enter a zone…usually it’s the gathering stuff and events that drive me around. Usually by doing events I get some hearts done incidentally. I do the waypoints I see, I do the points of interest I pass…but I don’t often go far out of my way. When I’ve seen enough of the zone I look elsewhere. Otherwise the game just becomes a big checklist.

But this is just a matter of personal taste. Everyone is different. Nothing is wrong with how you’re doing it…it just wouldn’t work for me.

Every time I go back into a zone I do a bit more and eventually I finish that zone. I do it on all my 80s.

I really enjoy the Marionette too and I agree, if people don’t like it, they shouldn’t be doing it. But I think enough people do like it where it won’t matter if people don’t do it. I think the same about Tequatl.

Lots of people don’t do it, but entire guilds, HUGE guilds have been set up to do it…and it’s done several times a day. Enough people do it to not only keep it in the game, but to add more content like that.

I think that’s telling.

The issue with having both content types should be self evident. You split the playerbase and end up taking some of the people doing the open world event into the smaller raid event (because you’re not going to have an 80 man raid) and then if ten or twenty groups do this, there might not EVER be enough people to do it in the open world…and that’s a problem, because Anet wants this game to be about the open world. They’ve always said that.

It’s all very nice to provide a percentage of the players with what they want. It’s not all right when it actually ruins either the vision of the game itself, or the experience of that vision for those who are enjoying it.

Just as some people bought this game because they didn’t want vertical progression, I bought this game so I wouldn’t be forced into doing instances if I didn’t want to.

If you move this game so that people can experience the content in instances or open world, and you need less people for instances, you kill the open world.

For this reason I don’t think Anet will do it, even if you personally don’t like open world raids,

This game was designed not to have a “traditional” end game. Those who enjoy traditional end game, may or may not like this but there area whole of us out here who dislike traditional endgame immensely.

The few times I’ve raided, I didn’t particularly enjoy it. I don’t particularly enjoy running dungeons in this game. I’m not a huge fan of instanced content. Strangely enough, I like the Fractals quite a bit but I run them for fun, not because they’re “end game” content.

The point is many of us who this game was made for, those who are tired of MMO end game, are quite happy to not have an MMO end game, where as those who really enjoyed other MMOs find this game sort of directionless.

I think the idea that you do what you want is appealing to some people and not appealing to others.

People in threads across this forum keep talking about stuff like meaningful content. It’s a game. None of it is really meaningful in the greater sense of the word. Providing for your kids…that’s meaningful. Being a better person…that has some meaning.

Soloing Lupi….not so much. lol

You’d definitely lose WvW ranks, because they’re not tied to an account at this time, they’re tied to a character. No one can say what will happen after they become account bound.

I’m against instanced content too. It leads to elitism. It leads to problems.

You must have seen the threads of people who only want zerkers, only want this build only what that build.

This game was designed so people could play different builds. Some types of players, rangers, necros, engies, have trouble getting invited to groups. But in open world content, they can play what they want and still participate.

This is much better for me than being dictated too by the current meta exactly how I should play the game.

There are plenty of games for people to play instanced raids. I sure hope this won’t be another one of them.

Zeldain.5710:

Jski.6180:

Open world by far you get to play with other ppl at any time with out needing to be consure with the 5 man limit. Its a question of mmorpg vs HUB games open world is an mmorpg instanced is more HUB game.

Well, let’s face it – you’re not really playing WITH other people at all – just playing along side them. They may as well be NPCs.

Instanced, large-scale group content for stuff like this is a much better experience.

There’s no reason they can’t leave open world versions of these bosses as they are for everyone – but then provide an instanced version for guild progression of the hard modes.

I’m usually playing with my guild. While it’s true that we can’t ALWAYS get into the same overflow, usually we do. And so even though you may think I’m not playing with people, I am. Today me and four other guildies participated in the marionette fight in Lornar’s on TC. It was the first time we beat it without a single party failing to break a chain.

But in our corridor, me and my guildies were on mumble, coordinating at least amongst ourselves. Lots of smaller guilds do this.

Low level characters are pretty much canon fodder in WvW….once you start getting up a bit higher, it’s fine to run with a zerg…but expect more deaths. Obviously you wouldn’t want to roam with low level characters.

How it is is very different depending on who you ask. Some people hate it, some people love it. It also depends a lot on what server you’re on.

Me, I’m a PvE guy primarily, but I dabble in WvW and quite like it when I do. My problem is I need some lore/story/motivation to do something and WvW doesn’t really give that to me. I don’t enjoy killing to kill.

There’s a new WvW entrance map called Edge of the Mists coming soon (the beta just came to a close) that is pretty interesting as well.

There are also now levels in WvW…WvW levels that allow you to specialize. There are changes being made to that too, as soon they’ll be account bound levels, where right now, each character has to be leveled separately.