Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
You can guest to max two different servers within 24 hours. And it’s not so easy to choose one. Because you can make a mistake by choosing either a server that’s abandoned (event is not being done) or a server that is overcrowded (you end-up in overflow).
Overflows on busy servers are often full and often get content done. Certainly that’’s true with the Marionette.
It’s still an unnecessary hassle, just to be placed in an instance with a bunch of random people, so that you can wait around for an event to start, instead of just being able to queue up and play with your friends.
That I agree with.
There are services that do that. If you buy it from the Guild Wars 2 website, that’s what you get… a code. When you buy an MMO you’re not actually buying a program…you’re buying an account….access to a world.
The disc thing is a remnant of times gone by. I strongly suspect in another few years, no online game will ship with a disc.
I mean even consoles now have to download updates before you can play certain games. That trend is only going to increase.
I’ve often said before patches when people start complaining, they should wait to experience the content before making judgments. I say the same thing now.
The patch could be great or the patch could suck and we won’t know until we actually play it. And, as usual, some people will love it and some people will hate it. That’s life in the big city I guess.
But there’s no reason to judge anything but you’ve played it. So many things look great on paper.
No MMO is on the disc that comes with the box. That’s the basic programmer. The downloader. MMOs change so fast that the software in the box is often outdated by the time it ships. Now, a year later, it’s way outdated.
You use the discs to get the core program but everything else is downloaded from the web. The discs themselves are actually irrelevant at this point.
You’ll be able to go directly to the EotM map. You won’t just have to queue for a borderlands.
You’lll be playing with people from your server and other servers. You’ll always be with people from your server. The matches last a week, so for one week you’lll have the same people….but you’ll always have a core group from your server…because your server will always be your color.
No one knows and Anet hasn’t said. Out of curiousity, are you a charr or a norn. Because they find the camera angles harder than other races.
One trick (and this isn’t suggesting Anet shouldn’t fix anything but it might help for now) is to get an infinite doll tonic or any tonic that turns you into a humanoid, preferably an asura.
It makes jumping puzzles a whole lot easier.
The game sold over 2 million copies with just the core content. Most people would agree that most of the core content was above average to excellent.
TBH, the LS just isn’t of the same caliber as the core content. And it has not attracted the sales that the original core content has, and has even pushed some people away.
Quality over quantity is the only solution here.
Edit: And add in a meaningful progression mechanic!
The problem with this logic is that you’re making the assumption that quality like the original stuff would attract more sales, but there’s no actual evidence for this.
Most computers games, almost all of them, sell most copies within 90 days of release. The only that that might drastically change the number of copies sold is an expansion, but that’s not because it’s necesssarily better content. It’s something extra to buy.
Most people who were interested in the game, bought it before it came out or when it came out. An overwhelming majority. Some people waited to see what others said, but a year down the road the largest percentage of people interested in the game have already bought it.
No matter what level of content you provide, there’s no real guarantee or proof that people who weren’t interested are going to suddenly become interested.
I managed a computer store for a very long time (and I was the game buyer as well) and this is completely normal for games…even popular ones. It’s a very very rare game that keeps selling three months after launch. A couple of games like Sim City or Warcraft 2, sure.
But again, out of all the games out there, it’s a tiny percentage.
It’s an overflow like any other. You should be able to join on friends. Not that that’s 100% perfect, but it does mean that groups, particularly smaller groups, are more likely to get on the same server.
Incorrect.
EotM functions like the mini-games. You get placed in a random overflow and you can not join on your group mates.
I’ll believe this when I see it. I’m not sure that anyone can make that statement definitively but the way Anet originally spoke about it, they spoke of it being a main map that can generate overflows.
The test server may well have not had that functionality enabled. If you have a source I’d be interested in seeing it.
Wow. I hadn’t thought of that. You, OP, have my most sincere sympathies.
With love…all the rangers
who else is sick of being limited to 2 legendary per character.
You can do world completion on other chars and give the legendary to your main
But then those poor deprived characters won’t have legendaries of their own. It would be, for them, the ultimate sacrifice.
OP, kittens that kick you aren’t people you should want to run dungeons with anyway. Far better to be kicked before it starts that near the final boss.
I always tell people to find casual guilds and play with them, because you can play what you like. No one listens to me, but I always say it. lol
And yes, making your own casual group, all professions welcome will fill up in no time.
It’s an overflow like any other. You should be able to join on friends. Not that that’s 100% perfect, but it does mean that groups, particularly smaller groups, are more likely to get on the same server.
And, this map really isn’t designed for giant zergs. I think these maps are far more suited to smaller teams.
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
You can guest to max two different servers within 24 hours. And it’s not so easy to choose one. Because you can make a mistake by choosing either a server that’s abandoned (event is not being done) or a server that is overcrowded (you end-up in overflow).
Overflows on busy servers are often full and often get content done. Certainly that’’s true with the Marionette.
February 4th, the next patch.
I played in the beta, and I think it’ll be a lot of fun. There’s some interesting concepts Anet is playing with there. It’s good stuff.
1. Thread length has to be kept to a manageable length but you still need room to express your view. It’s a tricky balance.
2. Anet should list topics they’re willing to discuss and then let players vote on those specific topics. Alternately, let players suggest a range of topics, let Anet pick the ones of those they’re willing to discuss and then have the vote.
Anet already has instances in maps though. EVen Scarlet’s lair is an instance. So why can’t they do that?
Anet could have made it an 80th level thing and leveled everyone to 80 like they did for other content and that would work too. I honestly don’t know why they didn’t.
This had puzzled me at the very start of the event. Why no upscaling?
But the answer is obvious, upscaling only works for a whole zone. They would have had to create an instance for the event to level everyone to 80, but for whatever reason they didn’t.
I have no idea why they didn’t instance the platforms.
No Sir. Locking out players from below a certain level from certain zones isn’t instancing. It’s just logic. The other thing Anet could do is increase the cost of being in a higher level zone to the point where it’s not worth it.
This is about low attrition in the open world, nothing else.
Edit: I didn’t mean to lock them out of the zone…just the platforms.
Sure, if you do not let those players enter the platform, you are instancing the platforms for a certain player group (let’s say level 50+). There you go.
Or your other idea is to rework the whole open world, instead of just instancing the events you want to be instanced, sort of…
In theory the platforms are already instanced. Just ask Raine. lol
The difference is it’s still open world. That is anyone who meets the requirement can enter that part of the fight. Calling it instancing is just playing semantics. What you’re doing is preserving the open world experience for the levels it’s meant to server.
Anet could have made it an 80th level thing and leveled everyone to 80 like they did for other content and that would work too. I honestly don’t know why they didn’t.
No Sir. Locking out players from below a certain level from certain zones isn’t instancing. It’s just logic. The other thing Anet could do is increase the cost of being in a higher level zone to the point where it’s not worth it.
This is about low attrition in the open world, nothing else.
Edit: I didn’t mean to lock them out of the zone…just the platforms.
Well it’s easy enough for Anet to have put a thing on the gate to keep out anyone under level….and made it clear it’s for that level. Anet could easily do that.
It would help. There are always solutions. The whole instancing thing will bring the very problems I left other MMOs to avoid.
It’s strange to see you misinterpret me…oh wait. lol
I’m not complaining about open world raids and I’m not complaining about the living story. I’m complaining about five specific achievements.
I didn’t make the game about achievements. Anet did. Therefore Anet should make the achievements at least reasonably fair. These achievements aren’t.
I like the living world over all and STILL like the idea of open world raids.
One bad design decision doesn’t negate an entire concept. It would be like telling the people to rebuild by entire house because they chose the wrong color carpeting.
Yep, I’m in agreement with a lot of people here. These dodge achievements are bad. If you want me to get an achievement, give me a reason to go for it. Don’t add in a bunch of random factors that can sink me repeatedly.
It’ll only make me frustrated and not want to run the content.
No, I don’t think they’re griefing me on purpose, but that level 20 person didn’t care at all that they shouldn’t have been there.
However, my main point is I’m fustrated that the times I’ve dodged everything, no achievement. How many times do I need to keep doing the same event over and over again to get something I should have already had?
It would have been fine if you beat your platform to get it, but to get it and stand there and watch another platform fail so you don’t….that’s just bad design.
Reminds me when Vayne says people’s way of playing is affecting others.
So back to Vayne, I’m sorry stop bothering other people. You’ll way of playing is bothering other people.
Actually my way of playing is trying to support the community. When someone is trolling, they’re not supporting the community.
I’m asking Anet to make events less trollable… and make the game more fun for players like me. I’m sure taking the “random” elements out of getting achievements won’t ruin the game for more people than leaving them in.
Well, open world is open world. There could be 99 level 1 chars and you the only level 80 and it would still be ok.
Why would you report the players? Because they play the game by participating in a open world event? They do not grief, they play the game.It is ANets kittened open world raid design that is the failure. But hey, they call it their new and exciting invention, so they will stick with this kitten for all time, because it would be to hard for them to accept their own design failure…
You have a level for a reason. Attrition mechanics exist for a reason. Anyone playing the game long enough to get that many points is doing it to troll.
Anet did say they wanted to make a game that made it hard to troll people and they tested events to make them hard to troll. If you think me complaining on the forums is causing the problem, you probably aren’t listening much to map chat. Plenty enough complaints in map chat.
If you’re saying those people are causing the problem by complaining, well, the design of the achievements gives them reason to complain.
I’ve gotten one of the dodging achievements. I’ve successfully dodged the marionette attacks at least a half a dozen times. Every single one of those times, my platform succeeded but another failed. And this is on TC mostly. This is a server that beats the fight often.
And then, twice I came off the load screen only to find out I’d already failed, because I’d been knocked down by an attack that happened while I was loading in.
I don’t know why anyone would think that kind of thing is fun.
This could have been my favorite living story ever…
But the haphhazard design of the achievements ruined it for me. And yes, I have the meta, that’s not what I’m talking about.
I’ve wasted far too much time trying to get an achievement only to have another platform fail and be denied it.
Just earlier a level 20 person was standing there, in the lane with us, and I whispered him/her and told them they’re probably too low a level for this event and asked how long they’d been playing and they said 24 hours. Then I added them to friends and checked their achievement points. 4100. Nice troll that.
That person was down all the time. Constantly. They didn’t care that they were affecting other people. They went into the lane and immediately went down on their platform.
I don’t know why Anet thinks this is fun but the combination of the achievements, having to have all five platforms finish them successfully, the load screen in which fails the achievement for you sometimes before you even try to get it, and the home server/overflow problems have combined to make this my least favorite living story to date.
Which is a shame because the marionette fight is a good fight. I just don’t want to feel the way I do when I miss that achievement due to people in other lanes who can’t do the content.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
I can’t remember the last time a new players actually complain about the queensdale train.
I think the people complaining about queensdale train isn’t even newbie.
The majority of the complaint I heard is about the lack of people in the other zones. At least newbies have people to play with if that’s what they choose now.
Three days ago there was a post on reddit about it. Not complaining about the champ train. A guy complaining that he was bored with Guild Wars 2, because there was nothing to do, because all anyone did was run around in circles.
Other people answered him, including another newbie who said he was the same way, and only when he found out otherwise did he move on.
I offered to help show him the game and now he’s in my guild. I spent two hours showing him something besides the champ train.
The point is, the newbies that don’t complain are the real problem. For every one that complains, ten don’t even know they’re missing the whole game.
@OP…what level are you and how long have you been playing?
I’ve been playing since head start and I still love the game. Lots of us do. Talk about a leading question.
No real reason for it in this thread.
really silly comment. I’ve played mmorpgs from the beginning. Meridian 59, everquest and other 3d mmorpg / rpg were 1st person or allowed functional first person. It is the most realistic form of play , and closest to actually being your character.
Just because you don’t agree with a comment, doesn’t make it silly. First person RPGs came much later in the game than third person and overhead view ones. If you were playing RPGs before Dungeon Master 3d first person didn’t exist at all.
Are you saying the imaginative powers of us older RPers are somehow greater than the younger generation of RPers.
IMO they should discontinue the gem store PERIOD. Everything offered in the gem store should be obtained as a POSSIBLE DROP to make the player-base feel as though they are working for something more than the garbage drops we currently get.
They should close down the game and stop making updates for it. Good plan.
I’m into immersion and I dislike first person point of view. Often I see myself in dreams, but I’m immersed in my dreams. When I read a novel, I’m immersed in the novel, even though I can’t see anything.
I get immersed in movies all the time and I can see the main character.
Immersion doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with PoV.
Which doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in the game. I think first person should be in the game, if for no other reason than it will make taking screenshots that much easier.
It’s not a few people with Embers. People use embers in dungeons all the time as part of a strategy. People use embers in many of the big fights and take out another as soon as the first one dies. It’s a drain on resources.
If a zone has a max cap of 150 and there are 150 people in it, and then 30 people summon embers, that’s another 30 things in the zone beyond the cap.
Do you know for a fact it doesn’t cause a strain on resources?
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.
It’s not bringing people back to the maps on my world. I’m on a low pop server that is being emptied because people are guesting over to other servers to sit and wait so that they can play with friends or at least with enough people to do the events.
If the events were instanced they could just queue up for it and play the game on their own servers while waiting.
Is your guesting key stuck? You can play on any server you want. Sometimes I guest to lower pop servers for a variety of reasons.
Brilliant post OP!
It’s addressing lag in big world encounters and dungeons and temples which are major parts of this game. I don’t see people popping elementals at the bandit even in Queensdale.
This WvW thing is a complete over-reaction. You’re getting a new map that will last the life of the game. You had no idea when that map would arrive, but I’m pretty sure most of you wouldn’t have though it would arrive on February 4th.
They’re introducing the map through a STORY vehicle, to tie it in with the current story lore.
Yes, I know you want them to just drop it and let you play but that’s not good for the game at all. Not even a little. Even some WvW’ers like the idea of a story, why something is the way it is.
If it’s an introduction to the zone from a story/lore point of view, then that’s all good.
And if after it’s done you can PvP till your hearts content….it just seems like a huge over-reaction to me.
This was obviously planned for a very long time.
I think maybe we should see what actually occurs before we start hurling invectives.
I think the uproar from the WvW community over plopping LS stuff into it has been pretty clear, but ArenaNet continues ahead with their fingers in their ears. EotM is a big update to WvW… some significant developer love, but the strange need to cram Scarlet into it is a big black fly in the ointment.
There’s really no need to wait and see, whatever her involvement, it makes anyone who has been complaining about LS in WvW feel like they are being ignored.
You’re assuming it won’t be a PvE only map at first and then whatever Scarlet does won’t make it a PvP map. Shrugs.
Wv3 players want Wv3 on their maps. I think that concept is easy enough to be understood.
Scarlet and LS sound horribly PvE to me, and PvE crowd does not necessarily mix well with Wv3 PvPers.PvEers will feel ganked and PvPers will feel like the update is not focused on them, even though they waited forever for it to happen. Sounds about right to make everyone unhappy. Good…
Are you sure there’s not going to be an instanced PvE version of the map for the Scarlet stuff? Because I don’t know anything about it yet.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
Some people are waiting at one spot and some people aren’t. That’s the point. If they have to be in that zone anyway….which they do, they’re now NOT in a city, that’s the point.
Did you see what Kessex was like during the last living story. It had been a mostly dead zone and suddenly it had it’s own champ train.
But if you make it an instance that anyone can just enter, at any time, from any city, yes, that WILL take people out of the world.
You didn’t see people running all over Lornar’s Pass this week? Because I sure did.
And Kessex Hills is dead again, and so will be Lornar’s Pass after super mario is gone.
LS is a bandaid fix with a best before date written on it.And if I wait an hour in a zone being it a city or somewhere else, just to be part of a raid, it is still waiting for a raid.
Exactly so. That’s how it works. The world doesn’t go to waste. We’re not always in the same zone.
There will never be enough people to fill every zone of every map. Never enough encouragement to get people to every zone.
But there are now people in specific zones. And there’s other stuff Anet does/is doing to get people into other zones. Having a achievement where you have to destroy towers in five different zones does get people into different zones.
It doesn’t mean the entire world needs to be full at the same time. Getting people into a zone for a couple of weeks is good for the game, not bad for the game.
I see where the disappointment comes from. Edge of the Mists was announced monthes ago and everyone knew it would happen at one day.
But, just putting Scarlet and therefore PvE content randomly on the Wv3 map so it looks like an update to the LS? That’s bullkitten.
So you’ve played this and know how involved it is? You think maybe Anet just took the Edge of the Mists map and painted a ship on it?
If they give content and that new content happens to be on a new map they’re also introducing that’s somehow bullkitten?
So they should just put that in an existing map, that would be less bull kitten?
I think maybe we should see what actually occurs before we start hurling invectives.
If this becomes another raiding game, where people wait around in cities for their queues to pop, I know I won’t be very happy.
Think this through. Think about how these events actually work. Are you saying that waiting at one spot in the open world is preferable to waiting at one spot in a city?
Supporting a living world is one of the reasons I believe true raid-like events should be instanced. Because they are inappropriate for the open world, they will only serve to empty the world in which they take place. Sure there will be some interest initially and Teq is a good example. Go there and you will find it dead compared to what it was before. Open world raids are bad for the living world. If this is the direction they want to take the game, open world raiding is the last thing they should do.
Some people are waiting at one spot and some people aren’t. That’s the point. If they have to be in that zone anyway….which they do, they’re now NOT in a city, that’s the point.
Did you see what Kessex was like during the last living story. It had been a mostly dead zone and suddenly it had it’s own champ train.
But if you make it an instance that anyone can just enter, at any time, from any city, yes, that WILL take people out of the world.
You didn’t see people running all over Lornar’s Pass this week? Because I sure did.
I’m hoping it’s a bug, because if it’s not it’s definitely verging on P2W and I can’t stand that.
The only exception would be if the stuff you get from it can easily be gotten in game by anyone.
The event itself was called the Cataclysm and I’d love to see that.
They do work.
But still, I’d take half of your opinion as accurate.
Devs, give us more open raid content + closed raid content ( WoW-style ). It’d keep both groups satisfied and make this game’s end content truly outstanding. Hell, I’d prolly quit complaining myself, lol.
Yeah but I’d start complaining. lol
Haha, why would you?:P I mean, having both sides of the coin is not the worst of the ideas, especially if it would please those complaining atm and keep satisfied those that don’t complain atm.
I think it’s more complex than offering two types of content. I think that offering a lot of content, while great in theory, is bad in practice.
This is what happened in Guild Wars 1. Anet offered prophecies then came out with Factions. Everyone wanted to play factions when it came out and a whole lot of people went there…which left Prophecies a lot emptier. I mean, it was a year old, right? All the original people had played it to death. Six months later, we get Nightfall. Good thing Factions was a short game.
So now the playerbase was split among three games. It doesn’t matter that they were tied together. What matters was that people were having a harder and harder time trying to find people to do missions. Probably why Nightfall included heroes for the first time.
Now we already see “open world is dead” posts on these forums. So let’s say there’s giant open world content and also big guild content. You take those 40 players out of the world, well it’s only 40 players right? But it’s not. It’s all the guys who would raid and ignore the open world content all together. 40 × 5? 40x 100? and everyone one of those people would be out of the open world.
Anet wanted a game about the open world. That’s what it was always supposed to be about. If you go to their website now, it says “Enter a Living Breathing World” not enter an fun instance with a hard boss. It’s a different dynamic.
For years, MMOs have been focused on delivering end game content as instanced content. Even Rift, which has open world zone wide events and dynamic events ended up funneling you into dungeons and raids. Why? Because Scott Hartman the head guy over at Trion (at the time and now again) loves raids. He was like a raid guy. So he pushed raids.
And a lot of people walked away because we were sold an open world experience and that essentially ended.
Nothing that takes the bulk of the population out of the open world for any length of time is good for this game. Its’ why guild missions are in the open world too. They’re not instanced for a reason.
So other people can participate if they see something happening.
A living breathing world requires people in it. And yes, you’re not always going to have people in every zone, but the living story does bring zones to life for a while and then we all move to a new zone.
Look at what it did for Kessex Hills.
That has nothing to do with instanced vs. open world. That is just people flocking to play new content.
Using that logic I could complain that every other map in the open world is empty because all the pve players are sitting around waiting for these events to start. Any new content added is splitting the player base away from you if you don’t want to take part in it.
Your argument would be like me complaining that I want everyone to be helping me with an event in the plains of ashford but they’re all in lornars pass instead and it makes it harder for me to play.
Right except that the living story brings people back to some open world maps at different points, which is what makes this game quite different from most others. We’re not all standing around on Orr, last time I checked. We’re in Bloodtide Coast and Lornar’s pass. Last month there were a whole lot of people running around Kessex.
The world is the playground here. It doesn’t matter if Fields of Ruin is dead today, it might be busy tomorrow.
You start instancing stuff and that could all go away.