Guild Wars 2

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

You couldn’t really “hold aggro though”.

Yes you could.

AI also targeted based on health level. We had tanks that could take and hold aggro regardless of the number of monks or necros in the group. Pushing their health low, while relying on pre-protting, good reactions from both the prot and heal monks, as well as his own defensive array, allowed our alliance’s top tank to hold aggro (and survive) with an almost perfect record (once he had the technique down).

Okay I stand corrected on that. I probably didn’t play with parties are organized as yours. But then we never played with tanks and I still beat all the content.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

I still say people who PvPed have a lot more reason to be annoyed here than people who PvE.

We did both really. Some were PvPers who dabbled in PvE, others were PvEers who dabbled in PvP. It was a great alliance.

To be clear, I am not trying to claim that my own experience in this regard was at all representative of, “most,” or anything of the sort.

No, I get that, what I’m trying to say is that there’s far more to the PvE experience here than there is to the PvP experience. There are two forms of PvP here and only one small scale. The biggest, most popular forms of PvP from Guild Wars 1 aren’t really represented at all.

As a person who predominantly PvE’ed in Guild Wars 1, I don’t feel that I don’t have enough variety. There’s always something going on. I can do fractals for challenge, or some of the harder dungeon paths. I can farm in certain areas, do events, explore…all the stuff I used to do in Guild Wars 1.

I’m not sure most PvPers can make that claim.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

In Guild Wars 1 damage mitigation was stronger than healing and the same is true in Guild Wars 2. Neither had ways to hold aggro (there’s no taunt mechanism here, unlike most MMOs). In fact, neither had a true trinity.

Aggro holding was quite possible in GW1 ( although taunts were not involved). Add in body-blocking and a prot/heals backline and you had a pretty solid semblance of trinity play.

You couldn’t really “hold aggro though”. I mean enemies went for the healers first…healers or minion masters. It was a good AI mechanism. You could use control effects and you could body block, but it really wasn’t the same thing as holding aggro.

The closest thing I remember to that was how we used to dual farm FoW, the shadow creatures right at the beginning. We’d have a permasin aggro a bunch of them and stay alive. Then an ele would cast non-targeted spells like firestorm and meteor shower to kill them while the sin survived.

While this is technically him holding aggro, you were limited to very very few spells, and if you used any other spell that actually targeted a foe, then he’d go for you.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Kevan.8912:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

what enrages me the most is that it’s their main audience (that of gw1 and manifesto) that now is not pleased.
they already got our money, and now chase a new kind of population that i’m sure brings them more money than the older.

good for anet. good for ppl that like this way.
bad for us.

People keep saying this. Do you have any evidence that most Guild Wars 1 players are displeased? Because it’s been repeated a lot. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player, I bet I logged as many hours in Guild Wars 1 as you (probably more) and I’m not displeased.

So what percentage are we talking about?

You talk about Guild Wars 1 players as if they’re a club that only has a single opinion. I’ve never found this to be the case. It was a divided population.

I’m sure, for example, that PvPers are far more disenfranchised generally than PvE’ers are.

I agree that it is a bad idea to try to speak for some large group of unknown individuals (such as all GW1 players). I suppose the best I can say is that only one of the people I knew from GW1 that bought GW2 still plays. This is entirely too anecdotal to carry any weight, a few dozen people means little as a sample for a game of this size, but I can certainly understand how one’s perceptions can be colored by seeing everyone you know from GW1 quit GW2 in the first few days, weeks, or months.

See most of my guild were guild wars 1 players and very very few have left, which is why my perception is otherwise.

Guess we hung out with different crowds.

I still say people who PvPed have a lot more reason to be annoyed here than people who PvE.

mesme.5028:

Ashen.2907:

mesme.5028:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who doesn’t know that MMOs change during development shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

Careful with that, friend, not everyone who plays MMOs are completely reasonable and logical adults. Some are just too young to really grasp how things happen and games have things just . . . not manage to make it.

I think it’s completely reasonable even independent of a developer telling you that you would have things you loved from an original to a sequel to expect something.

We got nothing, except lore.

Well, I wouldn’t say, “nothing,” but I see very little of GW1 in GW2.

I’m not being funny but i struggle to see anything, take away the lore and the name, what in gw2 reminds you of gw1? what did we get?

I play these two games pretty much the same way. What we got, from my point of view, was the feel of the world. This world feels to me like that world…and that’s no small thing.

I was an achievement hunter there and I’m an achievement hunter here. That could be part of it. I was grinding achievements in Guild Wars 1 that killed me. The way mapping worked there…scrapping the edge of every zone…ridiculous…but I did it.

I do miss Vanquishing, but I knew in an open world game with respawns that wouldn’t be possible.

In Guild Wars 1 damage mitigation was stronger than healing and the same is true in Guild Wars 2. Neither had ways to hold aggro (there’s no taunt mechanism here, unlike most MMOs). In fact, neither had a true trinity.

I’ve been playing some Guild Wars 1 lately, helping some Guildies through the game and though the mechanics themselves have changed greatly (and I wouldn’t give up jumping again or go back to a more pathed version of the game), the feel I get while playing the two games isn’t really all that different.

Kevan.8912:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

what enrages me the most is that it’s their main audience (that of gw1 and manifesto) that now is not pleased.
they already got our money, and now chase a new kind of population that i’m sure brings them more money than the older.

good for anet. good for ppl that like this way.
bad for us.

People keep saying this. Do you have any evidence that most Guild Wars 1 players are displeased? Because it’s been repeated a lot. I’m a Guild Wars 1 player, I bet I logged as many hours in Guild Wars 1 as you (probably more) and I’m not displeased.

So what percentage are we talking about?

You talk about Guild Wars 1 players as if they’re a club that only has a single opinion. I’ve never found this to be the case. It was a divided population.

I’m sure, for example, that PvPers are far more disenfranchised generally than PvE’ers are.

mesme.5028:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who doesn’t know that MMOs change during development shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

Careful with that, friend, not everyone who plays MMOs are completely reasonable and logical adults. Some are just too young to really grasp how things happen and games have things just . . . not manage to make it.

I think it’s completely reasonable even independent of a developer telling you that you would have things you loved from an original to a sequel to expect something.

We got nothing, except lore.

You know, I actually agree with this. It’s reasonable and logical to tell the devs you want specific things from Guild Wars 1. I agree 100%.

What’s not logical is banging on about it for a year after it’s clear that that’s not going to happen. It doesn’t help you (the collective you not you personally). It doesn’t help the game. It doesn’t help the players enjoying the game.

Anet announced ascended gear over a year ago. It’s taken more than a year to put it out and it’s still not fully released yet (we still have jewelry to go). People complained then and Anet said, they’re going to continue with it.

At some point, you cut your loses and move on, because continuing to complain about it isn’t going to change it, and it’s not likely making people who are complaining any happier. It’s sure not making me any happier either. lol

Kevan.8912:

Vayne.8563:

Well Kevan, if you’re doing what you’d normally do and get all that mats you need from that, you’d not consider it a grind. So grind does become a matter of opinion.

I got ascended weapons and didn’t really grind at all. I have four of them, with no actual grinding. Naturally I could have had them faster, but I chose not to grind.

i used to play as I’d have played without ascended.
and I didn’t get any ascended. nor sufficient mats (and laurels,) required to craft them.
and also if i had that mats, i will never increase crafting skills to 500…
so, also if you don’t call it a grind, for me it would be a grind.

and, what is more…i think that ALSO for those who don’t feel it boring, it’s hard not to call it a grind.

Yes, I agree with you. For you it is a grind. But for some people it wasn’t a grind or didn’t feel like one. Particularly those who enjoy crafting, I would imagine, or people who stockpile lots of mats, because they’re pack rats.

In fact, a lot of people made a whole lot of money off their tendency to stockpile mats from this. I don’t hear many of those people complaining. lol

Ashen.2907:

Do you honestly think that it is possible to please everyone all of the time ? 100% of the people 100% of the time ? Can you name a single endeavor where this has happened ?

Of course I don’t. But I don’t believe in not trying to please the bulk of the population and the population is pretty varied in their tastes, generally speaking.

In other words, I don’t think Anet is doing the wrong thing by catering to different tastes, whether or not someone is dissatisfied by a single aspect. In fact, with a game with any significant overhead, I think they need to please as many people as possible. Narrowing your focus to one group isn’t going to do it.

Ashen.2907:

There is a reason that, “you can’t please all of the people all of the time,” is a truism. Different people like different things. Doing one thing, even if only for a little while, will delight some people while disappointing others. Then the others will get something they like while still another group is disappointed until its their turn. Until a game development studio has access to nigh unlimited resources they will disappoint people with everything they do. The goal shouldn’t even be to avoid disappointing people, it should be to please more people than they disappoint.

Disappointment doesn’t mean, “hates the game.” It can be as trivial as not getting what you want out of a given BLC or Teq’s chest this time. It can be dissatisfaction with the current SPvP meta for a while and so playing WvW instead. It can be dislike for the current living story arc and so waiting for the next.

and so on.

Sorry to say but I disagree with this statement. Take something like Disney World…which is oddly enough a themepark. Something themepark MMOs try to do.

Disneyworld provides myriad experiences for people who crave different things. If you’re a thrill ride seeker, you’re going to largely be disappointed with disney world. If you’re a person who only likes theater shows, you’re going to be disappointed.

But a percentage of people do a bit of everything and that’s what makes places like Disneyworld so successful. It’s a play where you have a bit of everything.

People seem to think most people prefer only one thing or two things, but some people like variety and Guild Wars 2, by making a game for everyone, is offering that variety. I’d wager there’s a fairly large segment of the population that likes to do different things.

So they do some PvE in the open world, some dungeons, some bosses, then jump int WvW for a while, play some minigames.

Saying something is a truism doesn’t make it a truism. It has some value, but you have to question that kind of statement further, because so many truisms have completely contradictory truisms.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. Out of sight out of mind. Both of those things are considered truisms, but they directly contradict each other. Putting weight on truisms because people say them is intellectually dangerous.

Kevan.8912:

Evelynddra.9265:

It’s totally not for everyone which I get. It’s just people come screaming grind, but have no idea what it is. It’s now some watered-down version basically used to say “I don’t like doing this”. Not liking something is perfectly valid, but call it what it is.

well, evelynddra…
it is BOTH a “don’t like it” AND a “it’s a grind”.
i call it for what it is. GRIND.

and i don’t like it BECAUSE it’s a grind…and a grind for better gear.
i thought it was extremely clear from the OP.

Well Kevan, if you’re doing what you’d normally do and get all that mats you need from that, you’d not consider it a grind. So grind does become a matter of opinion.

I got ascended weapons and didn’t really grind at all. I have four of them, with no actual grinding. Naturally I could have had them faster, but I chose not to grind.

juno.1840:

@zamalek: EXACTLY — there’s little value in hiding an expansion at this point if it’s coming in 2014. Imagine the marketing boon that is an expansion announcement along with supporting media. Giant ancient dragon ftw!

They announced GW2 itself years before release (not months, not one year, not two years… many years).

And “big projects” might not be what the community thinks it is. Given the size of the LS updates, a “big project” could be a single new zone (which wouldn’t be bad at all, everyone would love it, but it’s not the equivalent of an expansion and all the hype that goes with it).

There is tremendous value in hiding an expansion at this point, depending on the reason the expansion is being made.

Generally, games time their expansions to head off competition. The less the competition knows about their plans, the harder it is to set release dates of their own. There’s this whole cat and mouse thing that goes on with companies.

Anet released the game before MoP, which is one of the reasons why so much was left undone. I’m guessing they felt they had to, because they didn’t know how good/successful mists would be and if it was ultra successful, it might impact sales for a long time after.

By launching a month before, they even got some sales from people with a month to kill.

Guarding your releases and release dates is just as much targeted at keeping the competition guessing as promoting it to your fans. In business, timing can be everything.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Most other MMOs, almost all of them, have content that can’t be enjoyed if you don’t get up, but that’s simply not the case here.

It’s called a compromise. Anet gave people who wanted it something to work towards, while not ruining the game for casuals who don’t have the time or money or energy to get it.

This is inaccurate.

Nice detail in your reply. If you can’t share with us why you think it’s inaccurate, then it’s pretty much a pointless post, as there’s nothing to back it up.

There is content in the game, high level fractals specifically, that is designed to require Ascended gear. I suppose technically someone might enjoy failing and dying repeatedly due to not having the appropriate gear for a given fractal level.

For some casuals, myself included, the game was ruined by the addition of Ascended.

You may have a completely different definition of casual than I do, but casual players don’t generally do level 49 fractals. I think you’d find that that content wasn’t created for casuals.

My statement was certainly true for my definition of a casual player.

The statement about content that cannot be played without gearing up had no reference to casual players. It was a claim, pure and simple, that there was no content in GW2, unlike other MMOs, that required gearing up.

Okay but you said my statement was incorrect even though I specifically used the word casuals. I used it for a reason.

The changes made to the game were there to give non-casuals stuff to work towards, which some of them apparently feel they need (not all obviously).

These changes shouldn’t affect casual players, which is, in my opinion, the bulk of the playerbase.

You said my statement was wrong, but I was talking about casuals and you’re not.

Even with just laurels and guild commendations (or laurels and farming ectos), you can have an ascended amulet, and two ascended earrings. You can then farm the fractals themselves to get an ascended backpack (well an exotic backpack which you can ascend) and two ascended rings.

Using just the basic 5 agony resistance avaiable for 75 fractal relics, that would give you 30 agony resistance.

If you ascend the rings you got or get ascended ring drops, you can bring that higher, though admittedly that might involve some grinding to get it very high.

You don’t have to craft ascended armor or weapons at all to do this.

But you know, even if you only have 1 of each ascended ring, you can still get all the way to fractal level 39, without doing anything else. I don’t have fractal armor on my main fractal run, and I have 40 AR, enough to do fractals easily up to level 39.

The highest level fractal I’ve run is 34, but that was before the update. I’m up to fractal level 25 for my personal reward level.

I’m just not seeing the problem here. I mean if you absolutely must get to level 50 in fractals, I’m not sure how you can consider yourself casual.

CrossedHorse.4261:

Vayne.8563:

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

He was making a rather obviously generalized statement, and one tends to be true most of the time. Trying to simultaneously satisfy groups of people with completely opposite preferences is unlikely to succeed without some degree of disappointment/dissatisfaction from at least one side. You even attempt to debunk his statement as false based on your own lack of disappointment, yet contradict your own claim by stating aspects of the game you are clearly disappointed with.

I still like the game, and enjoy playing, but I am definitely very disappointed with quite a few aspects of it. Probably more so than many others, but I find it unlikely that you will find anyone that is not disappointed by at least one aspect of the game. Even if there is just one minor area you feel should be better, that is by definition, disappointment.

Still not my point though. He specifically linked two things. Making a game for everyone and people being disappointed because Anet is doing it. You can play the everyone has some disappointment somewhere card, but most people will not read that statement and understand it that way. It’s bad communication at best, completely wrong at worst. It should be rephrased or it will turn off anyone who doesn’t feel disappointment.

There are plenty of people who play this game casually who aren’t disappointed, because they play it casually. They don’t have enough time to be disappointed. These debates fly under their radar. They don’t bother questioning if the game can be better.

Debating me for saying that something that was said is obviously untrue, even if you can fiddle it to make it true only illustrates my point. It’s bad wording. If it’s not what he meant, it should be reworded. I certainly took it that way and I’m pretty sure that a good percentage of people will take it the way I did.

I think you’re taking your point a bit too far. It was clearly a generalisation and not necessarily to be taken as a literal truth. And, as generalisations go, I’d say it was pretty accurate. Of course some people are happy, and some will be disappointed no matter what ANet do. But I think it’s very fair to say that in trying to please everyone, ANet has sort of been unable to narrow its focus enough to really make any one thing shine. This is, and always is, the problem of trying to please everyone. It’s practically unavoidable.

Both of you have valid points, but I think for the sake of being picky, this point has gone too far now.

Okay, let’s look at the opposite point of view. Let’s pretend that Anet didn’t try to please everyone and instead focused on one segment of the community. So they did that and not enough people played the game and not enough money was made to continue making updates. Would that percentage of the playerbase then be happy that Anet made that decision?

The problem is, it’s very easy to say something like the company is trying to please everyone, but that’s what a themepark MMO really needs to do. It’s got a huge overhead, and it needs a whole lot of players in game to keep this game running. In fact the game is designed around having tons of players in game.

If they make decisions to keep players they’re doing it for the benefit of the game, even if some people leave because they’re doing it.

mrstealth.6701:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

He was making a rather obviously generalized statement, and one tends to be true most of the time. Trying to simultaneously satisfy groups of people with completely opposite preferences is unlikely to succeed without some degree of disappointment/dissatisfaction from at least one side. You even attempt to debunk his statement as false based on your own lack of disappointment, yet contradict your own claim by stating aspects of the game you are clearly disappointed with.

I still like the game, and enjoy playing, but I am definitely very disappointed with quite a few aspects of it. Probably more so than many others, but I find it unlikely that you will find anyone that is not disappointed by at least one aspect of the game. Even if there is just one minor area you feel should be better, that is by definition, disappointment.

Still not my point though. He specifically linked two things. Making a game for everyone and people being disappointed because Anet is doing it. You can play the everyone has some disappointment somewhere card, but most people will not read that statement and understand it that way. It’s bad communication at best, completely wrong at worst. It should be rephrased or it will turn off anyone who doesn’t feel disappointment.

There are plenty of people who play this game casually who aren’t disappointed, because they play it casually. They don’t have enough time to be disappointed. These debates fly under their radar. They don’t bother questioning if the game can be better.

Debating me for saying that something that was said is obviously untrue, even if you can fiddle it to make it true only illustrates my point. It’s bad wording. If it’s not what he meant, it should be reworded. I certainly took it that way and I’m pretty sure that a good percentage of people will take it the way I did.

Kevan.8912:

nothing wrong. de gustibus…

still the fact that:

ascended crafting is so easy for a normal, regular player. if you are extremely casual, then you can go for exotics. they don’t even make noticable difference for that gold.

is false.

and also

if you are extremely casual, then you can go for exotics. they don’t even make noticable difference for that gold.

is false, as a difference exists.

A noticable difference isn’t the same as a difference. Ascended gear hasn’t made a noticable difference to me, even though I have it on one character.

So the statement you are saying is false is simply an opinion you don’t happen to agree with.

Kevan.8912:

Umut.5471:

ascended crafting is so easy for a normal, regular player. if you are extremely casual, then you can go for exotics. they don’t even make noticable difference for that gold.

aaaaand.
no. it’s false.
ascended is not EASY. maybe it’s easy for you, if your threshold for casual player lies at 1000-1200h….and/or gemstore.

Actually it depends on how much of a rush you’re in. If you want it NAO, of course it’s going to be a grind. What’s wrong with just playing and taking your time?

The problem is, I didn’t ressurect this thread, other people started posting in it again and without any contrary view point, the last several posts are all saying stuff that was said earlier in the thread.

New players come on and read the last couple of posts and then think they’ve learned something. Unfortunately, in this case, they’d have learned something that isn’t the full truth, so I post.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Anyone who doesn’t know that MMOs change during development shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

Careful with that, friend, not everyone who plays MMOs are completely reasonable and logical adults. Some are just too young to really grasp how things happen and games have things just . . . not manage to make it.

You’re probably right. It’s just amazing to me that people aren’t getting the whole changing thing, even after Anet made an entire blog post about iteration, and used iteration is just about every blog post for months on end.

I’d have thought that the concept of iteration means trying different things, seeing what works, discarding what doesn’t…particularly if Anet made a point of saying that they’ve thrown out entire systems if they see them not working.

It’s amazing how many people can quote a single line of the manifesto while ignoring an entire blog post.

mesme.5028:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

mesme.5028:

You could be right, but id like to think they are professionals who made decisions on how the game would be put out rather than blind panic, and it would be nice to know how they arrived at these decisions.

“Blind panic” isn’t quite it.

I always got the impression with this game that they had made the Manifesto, got to work on the game, and discovered “well this is harder than we thought” and then said “start prioritizing what we can actually get done”.

Yes, these people are professionals. So were the people who made Daikatana way back in the age of ancient ones, speaking of missing what you were aiming for. Just a little.

At least we agree somewhat the manifesto doesn’t really hold up.

I agree (and even in this thread stated) that there is one line in the manifesto that can be questioned. The manifesto has X number of lines. That means the manifesto is more than 90% true, which means it can hold up.

Of course it holds up. It’s a statement of intent, not a promise of delivery. If they delivered 70-80% of what it says it holds up.

Anyone who doesn’t know that MMOs change during development shouldn’t be playing MMOs.

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

What happens when they raise the level cap? we all know its going to happen.

There will be new tiers, greens perhaps to start with,
there is no way your ascended lvl80 will be much use, what then?
would that be in keeping with the manifesto also?

At what point will the ones who defend the manifesto ask,
what happened to the manifesto?

Where does the manifesto video say there won’t be new tiers, or that there won’t be vertical progression?

As already pointed out,. there was vertical progression in the game AT LAUNCH. So if VP itself was a problem, people would have complained about it before the advent of ascended gear and the fractals.

It says it here for me “Everything you love about gw1”

Oh I see. Well, let’s see.

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be secondary professions? Because they told us that (but there were secondary professions in Guild Wars 1).

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be guild vs guild PvP (because they said so quite clearly).

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be Elona or Cantha at launch? You should have, because it was stated.

In fact, there were many widely publicized things that weren’t in Guild Wars 2 that were in Guild Wars 1.

I have said often that that line is the only questionable line in the manifesto. However, it’s not specific enough to make a claim that nothing will change, because anyone following the game new about the myriad changes before the game launched.

Already having proved that one line to be questionable, we now have this situation where some people continue to believe this will be exactly the same game as Guild Wars 1 with a new skin.

It was never going to happen.

Ok when told “Everything you love about gw1”
what exactly did we get apart from lore?
what didn’t we get?

Exactly. You’re right. You’re 100% right. What did we get?

That’s the whole point. We KNEW we weren’t getting some of that stuff because Anet said so. We KNEW that the statement wasn’t true before the game ever game out. Anyone following the game new it was marketing pure and simple.

So, three years ago, in a video, a corporate execute makes an easily disproved statement and three years later, you’re still on about it.

How in the name of the six could you not have known long before launch that the statement was marketing? Why would you put any stock in that single line of a single video?

It’s like peopled watched the video and there was this power it had over them to make them ignore everything else said over the two years that followed.

Yes, the line was marketing pure and simple. So anyone who uses it to try to say something specific about the game…it’s completely pointless.

So we are to take what the devs say as perhaps lies and just marketing?

You can take it how you like. Some of us know the difference between an obvious non-specific marketing line and an actual product.

Two years before an MMO ships, a dev says something about an intention which is what a manifesto is. Two years is a really REALLY long time during a development process. Many things can change.

Devs are always going to try to talk up their product. But it was one line. There are hours and hours and hours of stuff that was said as well. And you know, due to changes some of that isn’t true either…because things change in project management all the time.

There’s also a difference between literal and figurative speech. Maybe everything Mike O’Brien loved about Guild Wars 1 is in the game and he didn’t know you’d love other things.

I was sold on the game by hours and hours of interviews and videos. If you were sold on the game by one unlikely line… well there’s not much I can say about that.

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

What happens when they raise the level cap? we all know its going to happen.

There will be new tiers, greens perhaps to start with,
there is no way your ascended lvl80 will be much use, what then?
would that be in keeping with the manifesto also?

At what point will the ones who defend the manifesto ask,
what happened to the manifesto?

Where does the manifesto video say there won’t be new tiers, or that there won’t be vertical progression?

As already pointed out,. there was vertical progression in the game AT LAUNCH. So if VP itself was a problem, people would have complained about it before the advent of ascended gear and the fractals.

It says it here for me “Everything you love about gw1”

Oh I see. Well, let’s see.

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be secondary professions? Because they told us that (but there were secondary professions in Guild Wars 1).

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be guild vs guild PvP (because they said so quite clearly).

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be Elona or Cantha at launch? You should have, because it was stated.

In fact, there were many widely publicized things that weren’t in Guild Wars 2 that were in Guild Wars 1.

I have said often that that line is the only questionable line in the manifesto. However, it’s not specific enough to make a claim that nothing will change, because anyone following the game new about the myriad changes before the game launched.

Already having proved that one line to be questionable, we now have this situation where some people continue to believe this will be exactly the same game as Guild Wars 1 with a new skin.

It was never going to happen.

Ok when told “Everything you love about gw1”
what exactly did we get apart from lore?
what didn’t we get?

Exactly. You’re right. You’re 100% right. What did we get?

That’s the whole point. We KNEW we weren’t getting some of that stuff because Anet said so. We KNEW that the statement wasn’t true before the game ever game out. Anyone following the game new it was marketing pure and simple.

So, three years ago, in a video, a corporate execute makes an easily disproved statement and three years later, you’re still on about it.

How in the name of the six could you not have known long before launch that the statement was marketing? Why would you put any stock in that single line of a single video?

It’s like peopled watched the video and there was this power it had over them to make them ignore everything else said over the two years that followed.

Yes, the line was marketing pure and simple. So anyone who uses it to try to say something specific about the game…it’s completely pointless.

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

What happens when they raise the level cap? we all know its going to happen.

There will be new tiers, greens perhaps to start with,
there is no way your ascended lvl80 will be much use, what then?
would that be in keeping with the manifesto also?

At what point will the ones who defend the manifesto ask,
what happened to the manifesto?

Where does the manifesto video say there won’t be new tiers, or that there won’t be vertical progression?

As already pointed out,. there was vertical progression in the game AT LAUNCH. So if VP itself was a problem, people would have complained about it before the advent of ascended gear and the fractals.

It says it here for me “Everything you love about gw1”

Oh I see. Well, let’s see.

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be secondary professions? Because they told us that (but there were secondary professions in Guild Wars 1).

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be guild vs guild PvP (because they said so quite clearly).

Did you know before Guild Wars 2 launched that there wouldn’t be Elona or Cantha at launch? You should have, because it was stated.

In fact, there were many widely publicized things that weren’t in Guild Wars 2 that were in Guild Wars 1.

I have said often that that line is the only questionable line in the manifesto. However, it’s not specific enough to make a claim that nothing will change, because anyone following the game new about the myriad changes before the game launched.

Already having proved that one line to be questionable, we now have this situation where some people continue to believe this will be exactly the same game as Guild Wars 1 with a new skin.

It was never going to happen.

mesme.5028:

What happens when they raise the level cap? we all know its going to happen.

There will be new tiers, greens perhaps to start with,
there is no way your ascended lvl80 will be much use, what then?
would that be in keeping with the manifesto also?

At what point will the ones who defend the manifesto ask,
what happened to the manifesto?

Where does the manifesto video say there won’t be new tiers, or that there won’t be vertical progression?

As already pointed out,. there was vertical progression in the game AT LAUNCH. So if VP itself was a problem, people would have complained about it before the advent of ascended gear and the fractals.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The poster implied over all disappointment.

There is a rather large difference between him implying something and you choosing to infer something. A statement referring to addictive gameplay seems like a fairly solid counter to a claim of implied, “overall,” disappointment.

You really are arguing just to argue at this point. Here then is the exact quote:

“This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone”

I’m not inferring anything here. He’s linking a cause and affect I don’t agree with. I don’t think trying to please everyone will cause disappointment in everyone PERIOD. There’s nothing else to discuss.

E Tan.7385:

Jski.6180:

Well yes GW2 is supposed to be like that because YOUR making it that way. The game is made to be played the way you want to and the way you want to play it is to max min a group it seems. Have you ran into any one who asked that you have ascended gear for a dungeon what about a open world event? Have you ran into any one for wvw?

They do say we make our own hells but i did not think or let say hope it was not so true.

That’s just what GW is not supposed to be : giving stuff advantage over other players. AND not farm, nor grinding

My point is : Ascended gear is quite very long, and expensive to get, not everyone will have ascended stuff, so not everyone will be equal regarding the stat, so not equal regarding “power”

Even if its “only” a 4-6% boot, that’s still a 4-6% too much in a game promoting equality between player ( hardcore player, or casual )
And again I ( personaly, me, myself ) dont imagine that, that’s what GW1 started, and that’s also what GW2 sold.

There is plenty of mmo assuming that kind of grinding gear, and i dont criticism that, i know what to except if i play thoses kind of mmo. BUT i play GW2 BECAUSE Anet said their game will NOT be like thoses mmo.

After, i never spoke about gear segregation, i dont know if it will ever happen, and that’s not the point of my argument.

But my argument answers the OP’s question better. You’re talking about a theoretical situation that can’t happen. Two people can never be exactly equal in everything. It’s not even possible. It’s a bad hypothetical.

It’s 100% true that there is a difference in power between ascended and exotic gear. It’s also 100% true that it’s far more grindy to get ascended gear. The question really becomes how this affects a casual player’s game.

Most other MMOs, almost all of them, have content that can’t be enjoyed if you don’t get up, but that’s simply not the case here.

It’s called a compromise. Anet gave people who wanted it something to work towards, while not ruining the game for casuals who don’t have the time or money or energy to get it.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

The direct statement was that everyone was disappointed.

That is not actually, “the direct statement.”

You have expressed disappointment with aspects of the game on these boards in the past.

If you are going to claim that something is demonstrably false…demonstrate the falsehood. Personally I have yet to interact with anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who have not experienced some degree of dissatisfaction with some aspect of the game. I’ve yet to meet anyone, even some pretty hardcore fans of the game, who found it to be absolutely perfect, lacking in any faults whatsoever.

zenleto.6179:

I’m more than happy to tell you that I’m not disappointed by GW2. I’ll get Vayne to point it out so he can demonstrate it.

You have never been disappointed in any way by anything in game ? The individual who brought up disappointment did not claim disappointment with the game as a whole, merely that people experienced disappointment.

The poster implied over all disappointment. More he implied disappointment based on the path Anet was taking concerning trying to please every body. He linked this as cause and effect.

I’ve never, to my knowledge, been disappointed in the game because Anet is trying to please everyone. Possibly because I’m into so many things that anything they do is going to hit part of my play style.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

You made a statement that is directly and demonstrably not true.

Would you be willing to demonstrate that not everyone has experienced some disappointment regarding GW2 ?

The direct statement was that everyone was disappointed. I am not disapponted which means not everyone is disappointed. Therefore it’s not a true statement.

At very least it would have to be changed to everyone but Vayne. But I know at least a dozen people who aren’t disappointed, so therefore it would have to be changed further and frankly, what are the odds that I know every single person who’s not disappointed.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to defend here…it’s a pretty simple statement. It’s demonstrably untrue.

Nike.2631:

I like to think the topic of the 3 year old MMO commercial called “The Manifesto” is hooked up to an Asuran device that taps it for enough Ecto-Undeath Distillate to power the entire Necromancer class.

Best post of the entire thread. lol

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

People hanging on every single word and then misinterpreting what was said based on their own preconceptions happened.

There is NO mention of gear grind or vertical progression in the manifesto video. None at all. The only way you could possibly think it was mentioned is to ignore everything around it.

What happened is people placed their own definition of grind into the manifesto and decided that’s what Colin meant when he was talking about grind, when in reality Colin already defined what he was talking about…and later clarified it in other places.

Vayne, I’m sorry.

Nobody cares about that anymore. It’s been worked over, buried, dug back up to be re-examined, buried again in a chained casket, hauled up again to have DNA evidence tested, thrown in the ocean with weights, dredged from the depths next to Cthulhu’s headrest, subjected to psycological profiling, and shot into space . . .

And nobody saying the manifesto is a lie, or they failed to live up to it, is caring about what they said exactly. Or what they implied. Or what Colin said interviews later trying to explain about the combat.

There isn’t any point anymore to trying to talk about it other than “it exists”, “it is a video you can watch”, and “it mentions Guild Wars”. I mean, we can all discuss what we took away from it and how we feel it diverges, but trying to engage the people who want to go “it lied” is futile.

I don’t know. I know most people don’t care but there are new people playing the game and therefore new people on the forum. By saying it, yet again, someone might see it and see the truth of the matter.

There are still some people who believe, really believe, the manifesto is talking about gear grind, and new people, having no counterpoint might believe it too.

So when I post, I’m not trying to change the mind of people who are stuck in a previously held belief. I’m giving new players the heads up that not everyone agrees with that assessement.

Ferik.3127:

Vayne.8563:

Ferik.3127:

Great game. Ground-breaking start. Very noble manifesto. Beautiful ambition.
Addictive PvP gameplay (regardless of balance)

Mediocre feedback-gathering. Laughable communication within the company.

Poor execution of patches following its glorious 2012 Q4. At some point, this game is barely recognizable as Guild Wars 2 because it has branched too far away from its predecessor.

This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone

Lines like it’s disappointing everyone are demonstrably wrong. Are you saying no one in this thread likes the game and enjoys it. Because barring me and other long term players who like the game, there are people who don’t usually post here who have said they like the game.

So when people use wording like disappointing everyone, it does nothing to further their point of view. It only makes them look like they think their opinion is what everyone is feeling.

This is clearly not the case.

I supposed I have offended you, even if it is not my intention, then?

By the way, I am still playing this game on a daily basis, so~I guess you can accuse me of being another hater but it does no good to your ANet-supporting-reputation.
Like I said first and foremost this game is great so even if makes every decision wrong it is still better than League of Legends or World of Warcraft in my mind.
Just listen to the Norn theme music, behold the vista of Hoelbrak, and walk The Grove & explore it. Scarlet’s LS is poorly told but look at all those machine designs. All these are genius works, there is simply no need to praise them because they are simply beyond praising.

Because I believe the Guild Wars franchise has always been aiming for somewhere much higher than any of its rival does. Because I know Guild Wars doesn’t need 1 more praising. This game is supposed to be the changer of no MMO, but ALL video game industry. It cannot be content of being “an okay game”, which it is now.

What about you, a fellow believer? Are you content with where our game is currently at or do you want to be somewhere higher?

You made a statement that is directly and demonstrably not true. That statement doesn’t offend me. I’m simply pointing out the wording is wrong.

I’m enjoying the game. Games can ALWAYS be better. EVERY game can be better. Therefore Guild Wars 2 can be better.

Am I 100% satisfied with everything in this game? Well no. I’m not satisfied that I can’t sort armor by type on the trading post. That’s one example. It’s not game breaking, but it is inconvenient.

I am a believer, but I’m also a realist. I know that games like MMOs take years to hit their stride and get to where they can be. I’m patient, that’s the difference.

There’s not enough content for every play style. There’s not enough build variety. The way stories are delivered needs improvment…but I also see that stuff improving…it’s just not improving fast enough for some people.

So if I come to the forums and express negativity, particularly misstated negativity, then I’m not doing the game any favors. There’s already enough negativity here. A new player might come here, see all the negativity and draw the wrong conclusion.

Do you really think more complaining will make this game stronger? Cause I don’t.

I’ve run every dungeon in this game and fractals up to level 34 without getting ascended gear. I strongly suspect no casual player is going to need exotic gear.

The grind for the marginally better stats will give people who play more something to work towards, without necessarily affecting the average player.

I’m not sure how many casuals are going to be playing level 40 plus fractals (and the rewards from those fractals can all be gotten at level 39 fractals anyway.

E Tan.7385:

Killface.1896:

You can do all you want in this game in exotic gear,or grind and get 4.7% better stats and see it makes almost no different what gear you are using

Its the right build and skills that matter in this game not the gear!!!

Oh yeah ? and what if two ppl have “the right build” and if they both now correctly play their build, what if they duel when one is full exotic, and the other one full ascended ?
One will have " 4.7% " ( if its not more like 5-6% boost ) more chance to win because of that.

Yes, that’s not a lot, but that’s already too important in a game supposed to only reward player intelligence, and not the ability to farm durings weeks to have the right stuff – runes

Actualy, the game only reward hardcore farmer. Where btw, you dont need to use your brain to do that.

Is that really what GW2 is supposed to be ? i dont think so..

If two people happened to have the exact same build and the exact same levels of skill, and the exact same play style, and the exact same experience, and neither was more tired than the other, or suffering from a cold, and didn’t get difference amounts of sleep and didn’t have a slower system or a different video card, or different latency due to an internet connection, you mean.

This game was never meant to be balanced for one vs one no matter how much you want it to be. It’s balanced for 5v5.

Terrible example.

I’d say find a nice, helpful, friendly guild and join it. Not a competitive, speed running guild, but some guild that supports new players, and helps them out where they need it, and answers questions.

It can make your experience a whole lot better.

People hanging on every single word and then misinterpreting what was said based on their own preconceptions happened.

There is NO mention of gear grind or vertical progression in the manifesto video. None at all. The only way you could possibly think it was mentioned is to ignore everything around it.

What happened is people placed their own definition of grind into the manifesto and decided that’s what Colin meant when he was talking about grind, when in reality Colin already defined what he was talking about…and later clarified it in other places.

I don’t know what you mean OP. I don’t roll swamp. I play whatever comes up.

Ferik.3127:

Great game. Ground-breaking start. Very noble manifesto. Beautiful ambition.
Addictive PvP gameplay (regardless of balance)

Mediocre feedback-gathering. Laughable communication within the company.

Poor execution of patches following its glorious 2012 Q4. At some point, this game is barely recognizable as Guild Wars 2 because it has branched too far away from its predecessor.

This game is trying too hard to please EVERY type of RPG gamer: story-follower, PvP, casual player, PvE grinder, smart people, people with no-life~~~~ending up disappointing everyone

Lines like it’s disappointing everyone are demonstrably wrong. Are you saying no one in this thread likes the game and enjoys it. Because barring me and other long term players who like the game, there are people who don’t usually post here who have said they like the game.

So when people use wording like disappointing everyone, it does nothing to further their point of view. It only makes them look like they think their opinion is what everyone is feeling.

This is clearly not the case.

So OP, what content are you, as a casual player, locked out of by not having that gear?

Not to mention the amount of content Guild Wars 2 initially launched with was greater than the amount of content in Prophecies and Factions put together. Prophecies only had a bit over 200 quests. It has 25 missions. One starter area.

With factions they added another game and another couple of hundred quests, and another 13 missions.

That’s a far cry from 300 hearts and 1500 dynamic events, even if you don’t include jumping puzzles and such.

Then there are dungeons. There weren’t really "dungeons’ per se in Guild Wars 1 until Eye of the North. I guess you could say Sorrow’s Furnace was a dungeon. There were elite areas, but nothing like the Fractals.

Shrugs.

The content that existed in Guild Wars 1, whether you like it better or not, was far less than the content here. I mean five start zones is a lot more content than two. In fact, in it’s entire live, Guild Wars 1 only had 3 starting zones. Add all the quests and missions together, and Guild Wars 2 launched with more dynamic events.

It’s a whole different ball of wax to develop for.

Anet themselves said they’d need 3 times the number of events in zones, compared to quests in the old system, which means it has to take longer for new zones to be developed.

Stark.1350:

Tequatl is too far in one direction in terms of difficulty. I’ve done the TTS raids. I have to get there an hour before the overflow fills up, park there. I don’t have to be on TS, but given that it’s mostly TTS members in the overflow, I know they all are.

If they want raid content, put Tequatl in an instance. I like difficulty, but this much coordination for an open world boss is a little silly. I think he could be scaled down quite a bit, still be difficult, but still be done by a regular zerg. Especially given how we knocked Zhaitan out of the sky with technically a group of 5 (no, I don’t count NPC’s) and his lieutenant is busy destroying everyone.

We didn’t knock Zhaitan out of the sky with a group of five. A highly specialized energy beam that was designed with anti-dragon magic was employeed to do this job. That megalaser was designed by the Asurans to do exactly what it did. We didn’t actually do that. The crippling blow was made by a machine that came from one of the Asuran personal stories.

Valanga.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Well, seems to me on patch does someone must like the content, because I keep getting put into overflows. I mean consistently.

Sometimes I’m on overflows for days and days after a patch hits.

Again, you’re on the most populated server of the entire game, if you didn’t get any overflow in patch day, i’d be worried…
But have you ever tried to guest into the less crowded servers, the ones people open threads about on daily basis, asking for merge because they are empty? I’m sure you’ll not have any overflow there, even on patch days.

Vayne.8563:

You must have pretty low standards, because the story in Guild Wars 1 was cliche too. Whether you liked it or not, if you can’t admit it’s cliche there’s not much else to talk about..

Since you praised the Living Story in more threads than i care to remember (yep, calling it Story, but now i see it’s more convenient to call it World), and how much a good character Scarlet is, and now in this very topic you said that games like TSW, AoC and The Old Republic don’t have a good story… Well, i wouldn’t be sure who’s the one with pretty low standards…

But anyway, it’s your opinion, and it’s as good as his, no less and no more.

Way to misquote me. I never said SWToR didn’t have a good story, I said I didn’t play it. Thus I couldn’t comment on the story. I said I didn’t play it for reasons other than the story.

I call the Living World the Living Story because that’s what it was first called and habits die hard. The fact that Anet changed it is actually easy enough to check if you feel inclined to do so.

TSW’s story was very much ruined by the fact that your character wasn’t voiced, which means most of what you heard was a monologue. Even then I didn’t say it has a bad story, or even that I liked Guild Wars 2’s story better.

I haven’t complimented the living world much at all, if you bothered reading any thing I’ve written.

All I’m actually doing is providing counterpoint to people who like to prejudge stuff, or use exaggeration to try to make points. People make comments all the time that are, in my opinion, completely unreasonable and very much overstated.

It’s funny how if you try to be reasonable and like wait for content to ship before you bad mouth it, people take it as if you love it.

I’m just willing to wait to see what happens. Of the living story so far, I’ve liked parts of it and haven’t liked others, which I’ve also said before. I don’t have a problem with Scarlet, but I don’t think she’s academy award material either. All I’ve said about her is that she serves the purpose of the story admirably.

If you consider that high praise, I don’t know what to tell you.

mesme.5028:

Qaelyn.7612:

Spiuk.8421:

NewTrain.7549:

If the purpose was to have fun, why aren’t those things fun?

(Preempting the “fun is subjective” argument)

They are to plenty of people.

If you keep playing a game you don’t have fun with that means you have a problem.

IMO after several years of playing MMOs, this is the core issue behind a big chunk of what you see on MMO forums. Players start a game all excited, they play it to death, and then expect the developers to keep pumping out gobs of content to help them maintain their “honeymoon period” indefinitely. It never happens to their satisfaction, but rather than recognize that maybe they’ve gotten all they can for their $50 and moving on, they spend the next N years on the forums complaining about how the “game isn’t fun”.

Even worse are those who never enjoyed the game because it wasn’t a good fit for them, but they hang around like zombies anyway, constantly griping about it.

Always amazing that people ask “what the point is” of doing things in a game.

I agree with some of what you say, but i think most do have fun in the things they want to do, i know i have lots of fun in fracts for example, but aspects of the game frustrate peeps and its that most talk about, things that matter to them, as example i can mine mithril in fracts but i can’t mine dragonite which i need for ascended gear to progress in fracts, so i have to do trash zerg content i don’t enjoy to obtain said ore.

I know it seems logical to players that you should be able to get everything in the game by doing one thing in the game that you like most. But that’s actually not good game design…especially for an MMO.

A lot of the complaints of MMOs that are older is that the world is dead, because people sit around and wait for their instances to pop. You hear this all the time. That’s because those MMOs don’t do enough to get people into the world.

Anet is proactively trying to do this, solving a problem most other MMOs experience.

I understand this isn’t your preference, but that doesn’t make it bad design. There are people who will be annoyed at having to do stuff and they’ll either do it, or they won’t do it. They’ll either leave or stay.

But if the majority of people like seeing people at events, and this gets people to do those events, because they need those mats, then Anet is actually solving a problem…even if the solution is one you’d rather not deal with.

It’s true for sure. I’ve gotten a good portion of my living world achievements on overflows (which are obviously not my server).

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

Yargesh.4965:

knives.6345:

tomlin.8204:

Run dungeons – for what purpose?
Farm gold – for what purpose?
Champ trains – lol
WvW – for what purpose?
PvP – for what purpose?

This is exactly how I feel after playing for around an hour.

I mean, I like the game, but there seem to be no purpose. No synergy between those said above.

I mean, yeah, we killed the champ. We got loot. What impact does it have on the world? none.

Yeah! Server is tier 1 on WvWvW! And? Oh we brag blah blah…

What have other games done that make you feel like you have changed the world that they created?
Is there anything that actually can be done without changing the world for people that come after you.

Blizzard managed it with great success, the places you saved stayed saved…wait that sounds familiar, and the world changed for you and any who helped forever. (Argent Vanguard, Shadow Vault) as example.

We all have an idea what to expect with the living story now, 12 step to chest, zerg zerg zerg.

I don’t think this is true. That is to say it wasn’t true during the first year and a half. What they did later they did later.

I thoroughly expect changes in the world to change the world for everyone.

Because if you’re talking about phasing that came with an entire host of problems that people complained about for years.

Yeh some peeps who didn’t open the game up complained about being phased, when all they had to do was the content.

From what I understood, phasing made it hard to group with friends and do stuff together. Different people were at different points in the same quest chain and it became inconvenient for some people. It was like people who didn’t want to go back to earlier zones to level with friends, so they created alts they only played when those friends were on. It was inconvenient.

The people that I know who were complaining were playing at the time.

mesme.5028:

Yargesh.4965:

knives.6345:

tomlin.8204:

Run dungeons – for what purpose?
Farm gold – for what purpose?
Champ trains – lol
WvW – for what purpose?
PvP – for what purpose?

This is exactly how I feel after playing for around an hour.

I mean, I like the game, but there seem to be no purpose. No synergy between those said above.

I mean, yeah, we killed the champ. We got loot. What impact does it have on the world? none.

Yeah! Server is tier 1 on WvWvW! And? Oh we brag blah blah…

What have other games done that make you feel like you have changed the world that they created?
Is there anything that actually can be done without changing the world for people that come after you.

Blizzard managed it with great success, the places you saved stayed saved…wait that sounds familiar, and the world changed for you and any who helped forever. (Argent Vanguard, Shadow Vault) as example.

We all have an idea what to expect with the living story now, 12 step to chest, zerg zerg zerg.

I don’t think this is true. That is to say it wasn’t true during the first year and a half. What they did later they did later.

I thoroughly expect changes in the world to change the world for everyone.

Because if you’re talking about phasing that came with an entire host of problems that people complained about for years.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

ChaosKirin.1328:

I seem to be the only one on this forum that knows how a story works. I’m so excited that this game actually has one that lasts, rather than being released all at once and then having nothing for two years.

I LOVE the living story. I pity the poor person who had to change their vision for the living story because of impatience on the part of the players. Releasing a little bit of story every two weeks is an amazing idea, and it seems that people here can’t connect the dots enough to realize that these story pieces aren’t random – they’re all part of a larger whole.

What I’m getting is that not only do most people not understand that the conclusion of the story is forthcoming, but that they want all their story at once, and then they want to repeat it over and over and over for a year until more story comes out. Then they can repeat that over and over.

I am legitimately confused. Why does this have to be all instant gratification? Why can’t we all just relax and let the story come as it does?

Because a good story is hard to put down, and you eagerly look forward to each chapter. This is not a good story. If this had been a book, I would have tossed it right after Scarlet appeared.

I want it over with, because until it is, this is all we are getting. I don’t care any more about the “finale” of this badly written formulaic pulp than I would care about the ending of a book thrown in the trash.

I’m still looking for the next chapters of the Tyrian story I started in GW1. Mordant Crescent. Joko. Cantha. Elona. What became of the Canthan empire, Luxons, Kurzicks. Evennia. Livia. The Sceptre of Orr. I’ve waited patiently for those things, the things they hinted in “The Changing of the World”, because those are compelling stories,.. or could be.

Note that I didn’t even mention Dragons. Far more than Dragons have been ignored to promote this Stale Story.

So are you saying Guild Wars 1 had a good story that you couldn’t put down? That wasn’t formulaic? I can’t name many MMOs that have a good story I couldn’t put down. This is because MMOs aren’t books.

When I want literature, I read. When I want game play, I don’t find it at the library.

There may somewhere be an MMO with a story I couldn’t put down, but I haven’t found it in WoW, or Rift, or Perfect World or DDO, or Lotro. I didn’t find it in AoC or Warhammer.

Games are centered generally around gameplay. Even TSW as good as the writing was, was something I felt I could easy put down. I didn’t try SWToR, because though it might have had good writing due to the Bioware influence, nothing else about the game appealed to me at all.

Yes Vayne, I am stating my opinion. Mine. An opinion that is every bit as valid as yours. Period.

I did each step of the “storyline” campaigns in GW1 eagerly, and War in Kryta, Winds of Change, Hearts of the North. Not talking about great literature, but a good story. And then I did them again. and Again.

Depth of Lore, story and continuity of story is far far superior in Everquests.. and they have managed to do it for 13 years or so. I have at least 300 books collected in EQ2.. all telling a bit of the “story” and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I do not need your short laundry list of games you have supposedly played. I do not need your definitions. I need nothing from you to form and hold an opinion. Sorry to break that to you.

You must have pretty low standards, because the story in Guild Wars 1 was cliche too. Whether you liked it or not, if you can’t admit it’s cliche there’s not much else to talk about.

Like when you got to Kryta, you didn’t know the White Mantle where bad guys? You didn’t know the Shining Blade was good? You trusted Vizier Kilbron?

I find that hard to believe.

I have a differing opinion than you, therefore I have “pretty low standards”. Amusing and predictable. Done.

Edited to avoid an infraction….

Maybe you’re right. Maybe I’m wrong and it wasn’t cliche. I apologize.

I mean who’d ever have thought that giving religous zealots the accent of the Spanish Inquisition was cliche.

My mistake.

Arnath.2319:

VOLKON.1290:

Arnath.2319:

LittleLepton.8915:

Arnath, I suggest you read the previous 2 posts.

Teq is being done on major servers and not small ones, yes, however bear in mind that this is the case with a lot of things. Champ trains don’t always run on small servers, some dynamic event bosses don’t get dine on small servers, it’s very common for small servers to just not do it.

Guest. Seriously. It’s there for a reason. Not everyone wants to do it, but there are tons of people who do.

If you have to transfer/guest for any content in this game then that content is immediately classified as a super mega massive epic failure.

The developers should have fixed Teq within the first two weeks of its update after seeing this catastrophe. The fact that they have done nothing and now are proceeding to add two more Tequatl clones is bringing this game to an early grave.

No, if you have to transfer/guest for any content in this game then that content is immediately classified by you as a super mega massive epic failure.

There’s a difference.

No.
All content should be capable of being done on every single server. The only time this wont happen is if the server population has dropped significantly and in that situation servers would have to be merged.

So either every single server in this game has to be merged to the one/two servers that defeat Tequatl multiple days a day.
OR
You accept that Tequalt is a epic failure.

Every game has problems with low pop servers. Anet has provided a solution to this, which no other game really has. People say there’s a problem. There is. The problem is people won’t adapt. Server mergers aren’t necessarily the only or best answer to this problem.

But the funny bit is you guys still don’t understand. Tequatl, at most hours of day, isn’t fought on ANY server. It’s fought on an overflow.

So if you joined the guild and you stood in Sparkfly on your own server and you asked for a taxi, you wouldn’t even have to guest.

It’s better to light a single candle that to curse the darkness.

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Vayne.8563:

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

ChaosKirin.1328:

I seem to be the only one on this forum that knows how a story works. I’m so excited that this game actually has one that lasts, rather than being released all at once and then having nothing for two years.

I LOVE the living story. I pity the poor person who had to change their vision for the living story because of impatience on the part of the players. Releasing a little bit of story every two weeks is an amazing idea, and it seems that people here can’t connect the dots enough to realize that these story pieces aren’t random – they’re all part of a larger whole.

What I’m getting is that not only do most people not understand that the conclusion of the story is forthcoming, but that they want all their story at once, and then they want to repeat it over and over and over for a year until more story comes out. Then they can repeat that over and over.

I am legitimately confused. Why does this have to be all instant gratification? Why can’t we all just relax and let the story come as it does?

Because a good story is hard to put down, and you eagerly look forward to each chapter. This is not a good story. If this had been a book, I would have tossed it right after Scarlet appeared.

I want it over with, because until it is, this is all we are getting. I don’t care any more about the “finale” of this badly written formulaic pulp than I would care about the ending of a book thrown in the trash.

I’m still looking for the next chapters of the Tyrian story I started in GW1. Mordant Crescent. Joko. Cantha. Elona. What became of the Canthan empire, Luxons, Kurzicks. Evennia. Livia. The Sceptre of Orr. I’ve waited patiently for those things, the things they hinted in “The Changing of the World”, because those are compelling stories,.. or could be.

Note that I didn’t even mention Dragons. Far more than Dragons have been ignored to promote this Stale Story.

So are you saying Guild Wars 1 had a good story that you couldn’t put down? That wasn’t formulaic? I can’t name many MMOs that have a good story I couldn’t put down. This is because MMOs aren’t books.

When I want literature, I read. When I want game play, I don’t find it at the library.

There may somewhere be an MMO with a story I couldn’t put down, but I haven’t found it in WoW, or Rift, or Perfect World or DDO, or Lotro. I didn’t find it in AoC or Warhammer.

Games are centered generally around gameplay. Even TSW as good as the writing was, was something I felt I could easy put down. I didn’t try SWToR, because though it might have had good writing due to the Bioware influence, nothing else about the game appealed to me at all.

Yes Vayne, I am stating my opinion. Mine. An opinion that is every bit as valid as yours. Period.

I did each step of the “storyline” campaigns in GW1 eagerly, and War in Kryta, Winds of Change, Hearts of the North. Not talking about great literature, but a good story. And then I did them again. and Again.

Depth of Lore, story and continuity of story is far far superior in Everquests.. and they have managed to do it for 13 years or so. I have at least 300 books collected in EQ2.. all telling a bit of the “story” and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

I do not need your short laundry list of games you have supposedly played. I do not need your definitions. I need nothing from you to form and hold an opinion. Sorry to break that to you.

You must have pretty low standards, because the story in Guild Wars 1 was cliche too. Whether you liked it or not, if you can’t admit it’s cliche there’s not much else to talk about.

Like when you got to Kryta, you didn’t know the White Mantle where bad guys? You didn’t know the Shining Blade was good? You trusted Vizier Kilbron?

I find that hard to believe.

Arnath.2319:

To kill Tequatl 2.0 you have to transfer to the right server, at the correct time, be in a specific guild, be in the precise overflow and use teamspeak.

And people think that Tequatl 2.0 was a success?!

If Tequatl 2.0 was a success he would be getting killed multiple times a day on every single server, that is the definition of success.

Right now i wouldn’t be surprised if less than 5% of GW2 playerbase has killed Tequatl at all.

It was a epic failure, one the greatest failures in MMO history, and ArenaNets lack of commitment to fix it speaks volumes about the state of the game.

And now they are adding two more…

You don’t have to be in team speak. I’m never in team speak. You DO have to know the fight. And you know, to beat a raid, you have to make a schedule with your guild, show up at the right time….a real raid anyway, not the baseline raid finders stuff.

“Real” raids require groups and schedules. The difference here is you don’t have to limit it to X number of people. And if a couple of people aren’t on the ball, you really don’t think they can finish the event?

Talk about making mountains out of molehills.

By the way, this guild does Tequatl many times a day. You only have to show up for the time you want, and if you don’t show up,. it’s not like the raid police come knocking on your door.

If I don’t do it for three days and decide to show up for a raid because I have nothing to do at raid time, I do it.

I’m not really sure what the big deal is.