Guild Wars 2

stale.9785:

Agree with both of you (and am curious if Vayne has been taking drugs). Pure horizontal progression – skins, skills and build options – would have been a far better way for them to go.

I’ve always said I was against vertical progression. My issue is when people try to say Anet promised, or Anet said, or the manifesto said, because that’s completely irrelevant to the conversation.

Games, particularly MMOs, change all the time.

If you don’t like a change, make a case for not liking the change. Saying so and so said this or that is counter productive.

That’s what I’ve been saying all along.

Thank you for posting this. I agree with this. I would prefer there was no vertical progression in the game. I don’t think that it makes this a better game.

Even if the game doesn’t technically require people to grind, many will feel that they have to, and will be forced to play content they don’t enjoy.

mesme.5028:

Vayne.8563:

mesme.5028:

lordkrall.7241:

People are fully aware that a bait and switch is illegal right?

And if you truly believe this to be a case of bait and switch, drag them to court. If you are correct, you will win, and since people keep spamming about it being B&S one would assume they are quite sure that it is indeed the case.

So either drag them to court, or stop spamming blatantly false accusations.

You do know in the terms and conditions which you must agree with and sign on installation, we own nothing and everything is subject to change.

A-net don’t even guarantee a service, and can cancel or change your account without notice or reason.

The TOS is not legally binding and is overwritten by local laws. Companies don’t write laws, and they don’t write consumer laws. You have certain protections, which vary depending on where you live.

It doesn’t matter what the TOS says. If you’ve been lied to, you’d be entitled to a refund…nothing more than that though.

And since Anet has one of the most generous refund policies I’ve seen for any software (people were given refunds many months after they bought the game), you’d have no legal recourse at all in this instance, because the matter is being dealt with equitably.

Yes consumer law gives some protection thou only within the allotted timescale, do you really think the terms and conditions are not legal? rly?

They’re really not…in the sense that they’ve been tested in courts and invariably fail. That is to say, they’re there to protect the business, but if the business breaks a law, they won’t protect the business.

Guild Wars 2 offered people refunds six months after they bought the game. That should have been the end of it for those people. They played a game for months for free and now they’re free to find a game they like.

The terms and conditions are certainly legal. What they’re not is law.

mesme.5028:

lordkrall.7241:

People are fully aware that a bait and switch is illegal right?

And if you truly believe this to be a case of bait and switch, drag them to court. If you are correct, you will win, and since people keep spamming about it being B&S one would assume they are quite sure that it is indeed the case.

So either drag them to court, or stop spamming blatantly false accusations.

You do know in the terms and conditions which you must agree with and sign on installation, we own nothing and everything is subject to change.

A-net don’t even guarantee a service, and can cancel or change your account without notice or reason.

The TOS is not legally binding and is overwritten by local laws. Companies don’t write laws, and they don’t write consumer laws. You have certain protections, which vary depending on where you live.

It doesn’t matter what the TOS says. If you’ve been lied to, you’d be entitled to a refund…nothing more than that though.

And since Anet has one of the most generous refund policies I’ve seen for any software (people were given refunds many months after they bought the game), you’d have no legal recourse at all in this instance, because the matter is being dealt with equitably.

Kevan.8912:

dear god…please it’s enough about court, promise, illegal, false advertis. …etc

-some of us, such as…me, saw in the manifesto a promise and then now feel betrayed.
-some of you don’t. good for you, of course.

the actual point is: although it was promises or not, does manifesto still apply to the future?
imho, the answer is not.
there will be again gear progression? yes, it could happen.
grind? here it is

so…the only thing to do is: (for “haters”)
ask anet to stop the progression. and also grinding and the mandatory crafting way to get ascended.

and also if devs don t give a kitten to what we write here, i’ll continue to express my opinion: that gw2 has become something i don’t like, and would came back to game if some of these things change.
if you agree, support who has the same ideas

krall and someone else like the game as is it now?
write on the forum that you like it as it is and you could leave the game if it goes backwards.
that’s all.
stop trying to prove wrong others’ preferences just to give authority to what you like in the game.

My point is, the things you’re saying are being said in the manifesto simply aren’t being said. There is not one single word about gear grind in the manifesto video. There is not one single mention of vertical progression in the manifesto.

If you dislike these things, and you’re perfectly entitled to dislike them, it’s not really relevant to this conversation.

The manifesto really is clear if you enter it without preconceptions. It’s only not clear when you start taking parts of it out of context.

There is precisely one part of the manifesto I’d say was pretty much dead wrong. “Everything you love about Guild Wars 1”. That line is obviously not true.

But everything else…by all means, complain about vertical progression. But stop saying the manifesto talks about it, because you lose credibility and your complaints then don’t carry the same weight.

I’m against vertical progression. I don’t like ascended gear.

But the manifesto refers to neither of those things.

LordByron.8369:

No vayne just people who want to find an excuse for the switch and bait are trying to misinterpret it AFTERWARD.

if you look at all the comments on the game before november 15 you ll have no doubt on what

EVERY SINGLE POST

understood about it….
Its time to find another tactic to promote your favourite game……this won t work

I find it sad that you continue to resort to personal attacks, when in fact, the words in the manifesto are perfectly clear.

Yes, the direction of this game changed. No, that has nothing to do with what was said in the manifesto.

Insisting something is true doesn’t make it true.

Edit: Bait and switch doesn’t mean what you’re saying it means either by the way. Bait and switch involved a company advertising one product and substituting a different product when you go in to buy it. Like advertising one TV, which ends up not being in stock, and trying to switch people to a different TV.

Bait and switch never refers to a company saying something and changing what they said. That would be false advertising, a completely different issue.

You’d lose that one in court too.

Kevan.8912:

LordByron.8369:

lordkrall.7241:

LordByron.8369:

They made another promise…
Ascended would be the last thing that made previous equipment obsolete.

No they didn’t. They said that they CURRENTLY DON’T HAVE ANY PLANS, nothing more, nothing less.

And Ascended does not make anything obsolete for that matter.

read better….i don t have the link but its in the vertical CDI if i remember well…

Deny everything -.- as Always…..even what devs say

well, i m just as angry as you are!

but…my friend, everything devs stated means nothing.
for me, it was a promise and their word.
but if it was a promise in the beginning, now we do know that they deserve no trust.
if we stick to it, we’ll have only bad news.

all of us know exactly what the manifesto meant. but we must face the fact that there are no guarantees they ll respect anything they stated in the manifesto.

so i think that the answer to the OP is simple…manifesto is dead and buried.
and we can expect anything to happen

I don’t believe you do know what the manifesto meant. There are people who disagree (and not just me).

So are you saying everyone who disagrees doesn’t know what it meant?

I believe most people misinterpreted the manifesto, because they have a previous idea of what they thought was meant by grind, even though the manifesto described what grind it was talking about and even though Colin used examples afterwards to clarify it.

People hear what they want to hear, but that doesn’t make it truth.

Most Tequatl runs are done by the TTS guilds out there, ttsgamers.com. I’ve joined one just to beat Tequatl, which they do several times a day.

fellyn.5083:

Vayne.8563:

fellyn.5083:

Vayne.8563:

I can’t imagine how anyone can take a projected schedule, which was said to be not written in stone, and call that a promise.

Until someone can actually answer that…the rest of this complain seems to lack substance.

It would be different if Anet had said we’re going to have this by the end of the year, but they didn’t. All they said was they’re going to try to have this by the end of the year.

People read what they want to read.

Yeah it wasn’t a promise but if they knew there was the smallest chance something wasn’t going to get finished in time then they shouldn’t have mentioned it pure and simple.

They get peoples hopes up for much wanted and requested features only to tell us “nope lol maybe next year we’ll actually get to it”. When they are the things people have wanted since release.

Once promised, told it’s not gonna happen any time soon. Then mentioned again much later and said this could be done by the end of the year then told yet again that it’s not going to happen any time soon. Anet deserves all the flak they get as far as this stuff is concerned because all the significant things they talked about didn’t happen in 2013.

But hey, we got a lot of useless ugly back item skins, RNG boxes, and Scarlett so I guess that makes up for it.

Okay, so your suggestion is Anet doesn’t mention anything at all to anyone until they’re ready to ship..by which time it’s far too late to have feedback. The community can’t have it both ways. Either they want to be involved with the creation process, or they don’t.

If Anet waits until things are set in stone to annouce stuff, the fans get no time to react to it, and in that case they should just accept anything Anet does.

If the fans want to be involved, they need to understand creative process, iterative process and long distance scheduling of complex projects.

What Anet is saying is we didn’t make this deadline, not that it’s not going to happen. How many games have had delayed released dates, due to unforseen circumstances. Many.

Worse still, how many games (including this one in my opinion) have launched early, at least partly because of growing pressure from the playerbase.

People need to learn some patience. Stuff that comes out three months late isn’t stuff that isn’t coming.

How would these same people react if Anet rushed these things out and they didn’t work?

What, exactly, were we supposed to be giving feedback on? They didn’t give us anything to give feedback on so I don’t see it.

All they put out was their second half of 2013 blog post which contained a list of things they wanted done by the end of the year, nothing more and nothing less. No details of any sort on how the coming changes would work.

And it’s also amusing how you think anet listens to feedback unless something blows up in their faces like with cultural armor fiasco from a little while ago.

They sure didn’t listen when last setemper (2012) when they told us they were working on the precursor scavenger hunt and they got thousands of posts talking about it and how much it was needed.

So I ask again what feedback we were supposed to be give?

There have been times in the past when Anet has used suggestions from players before something was finished, because they had time to incorporate them.

They announce something which causes players to talk. Players talking is more grist for the mill. If Anet surprises us with something no one is ready for, then many will complain that they had no say. In reality they’ve had no chance to get used to or brace themselves for it. Very often the dialogue of the community helps drive development whether you believe it or not.

Anet said at one point that there would be no way to walk in this game. People complained and Anet put walk into the game. They couldn’t have complained if Anet hadn’t made a statement.

There are always things in any development project that aren’t going to change, but there are things that can.

If you don’t think Anet keeps their ear to the ground, you’re not paying attention. They won’t walk away from their core direction, but they will certainly incorporate ideas from the fan base. And they can’t do that if a dialogue isn’t opened in the first place.

fellyn.5083:

Vayne.8563:

I can’t imagine how anyone can take a projected schedule, which was said to be not written in stone, and call that a promise.

Until someone can actually answer that…the rest of this complain seems to lack substance.

It would be different if Anet had said we’re going to have this by the end of the year, but they didn’t. All they said was they’re going to try to have this by the end of the year.

People read what they want to read.

Yeah it wasn’t a promise but if they knew there was the smallest chance something wasn’t going to get finished in time then they shouldn’t have mentioned it pure and simple.

They get peoples hopes up for much wanted and requested features only to tell us “nope lol maybe next year we’ll actually get to it”. When they are the things people have wanted since release.

Once promised, told it’s not gonna happen any time soon. Then mentioned again much later and said this could be done by the end of the year then told yet again that it’s not going to happen any time soon. Anet deserves all the flak they get as far as this stuff is concerned because all the significant things they talked about didn’t happen in 2013.

But hey, we got a lot of useless ugly back item skins, RNG boxes, and Scarlett so I guess that makes up for it.

Okay, so your suggestion is Anet doesn’t mention anything at all to anyone until they’re ready to ship..by which time it’s far too late to have feedback. The community can’t have it both ways. Either they want to be involved with the creation process, or they don’t.

If Anet waits until things are set in stone to annouce stuff, the fans get no time to react to it, and in that case they should just accept anything Anet does.

If the fans want to be involved, they need to understand creative process, iterative process and long distance scheduling of complex projects.

What Anet is saying is we didn’t make this deadline, not that it’s not going to happen. How many games have had delayed released dates, due to unforseen circumstances. Many.

Worse still, how many games (including this one in my opinion) have launched early, at least partly because of growing pressure from the playerbase.

People need to learn some patience. Stuff that comes out three months late isn’t stuff that isn’t coming.

How would these same people react if Anet rushed these things out and they didn’t work?

I can’t imagine how anyone can take a projected schedule, which was said to be not written in stone, and call that a promise.

Until someone can actually answer that…the rest of this complain seems to lack substance.

It would be different if Anet had said we’re going to have this by the end of the year, but they didn’t. All they said was they’re going to try to have this by the end of the year.

People read what they want to read.

Coldtart.4785:

Vayne.8563:

What I’m saying if that if your build is better than/or perfectly suited to defeating another build, then you’re going to win. If you have more people you’re going to win. If you have less lag you’re going to win. If you have more sleep so you have better reflexes due to lack of fatigue you’re going to win.

A better build/build matchup makes you more likely to win.
Having more people makes you more likely to win.
Having less lag makes you more likely to win.
Having better concentration makes you more likely to win.

None of those things can guarantee a win. All of them influence the outcome but no single factor can decide it. You know what can make a build better? A 12-13% overall statistical performance increase. If a fight is 8v8 and your entire team has ascended while the enemy’s entire team doesn’t, you have the equivalent of one more person, without the logistical needs of another person.

Stats always matter. There’s a reason why we spend so much time min-maxing our builds. Anything that makes you stronger is an advantage. Any advantage improves your capability to win. A good player can pull a win out of even the slightest advantage. If your opponent has even one more piece of ascended across their whole team than you, you are at a disadvantage.

Stats matter more in most games than this one though. Not saying they don’t matter at all. I’m saying that don’t matter as much as people make them out to.

In most games, your dodge is a stat, not something you do. So in most games you need dodge stat to avoid damage. Here you’re far more in control when it comes to avoiding damage, giving people good at a huge advantage.

When everyone is equal at that, stats will matter a lot more.

Yep it’s sure possible using a program you can download from this site.

http://www.insanecoder.net/?page_id=51

I’ve tried it and it works and it’s not breaking any of Anet’s rules as long as you are actively playing both accounts and not automating anything or using macros.

What I’m saying if that if your build is better than/or perfectly suited to defeating another build, then you’re going to win. If you have more people you’re going to win. If you have less lag you’re going to win. If you have more sleep so you have better reflexes due to lack of fatigue you’re going to win.

Stats, in and of themselves, only become meaningful when all things are equal, but all things are never equal in WvW. People have different computers, processors and internet connections. People have different levels of personal skill.

If the guy you’re fighting and dodge and interrupt all your big attacks, then having ascended armor won’t help you at all. If he knows when to throw down a wall of reflect and use condition removal and if he has a plan, then he’s going to trump you if his build is suited to that.

WvW was never meant to be balanced for 1v1. Anet has said this so many times it’s barely hard to believe that people can just keep ignoring it.

darkace.8925:

Vayne.8563:

I really don’t understand this at all. The idea that somehow dangerous foes have to be big.

Last time I checked, the creatures that have caused the most deaths on the planet earth were fleas and mosquitos…and not the giant kind either.

When I see a giant boss, in games were all bosses are giant, I think, here we go again. The only way to make a boss more powerful is to make him bigger.

Superman and spiderman are pretty powerful and they’re human sized. Why does a boss have to be big to be dangerous?

Edit: Even in Guild Wars 1, in the Ring of Fire mission (the last mission in Prophecies), the tiny sparks were far more dangerous than the giant titans. They were far more likely to kill you.

In MMOs, tougher monsters tend to require larger groups of players to defeat. Larger groups of players can make it tough to see what’s going on unless the monster is of a larger size. It can be tough to time interrupts and dodges against PC-sized or smaller monsters if you can’t see the attack cues through the throng of characters surrounding it. Ergo many, not all, tough MMO monsters are large.

Many of the toughest monsters in the game, all of them in fact, would be in instances, so you’d only have 5 people fighting them though.

The population on my server, Tarnished Coast, is high. Too high sometimes as I end up on overflow servers when trying to do stuff.

But I’m confused how someone can say they love this game and not like what’s become the game’s main features. I mean, the OP is waiting for serious content, where as some people, including me, like this content better than the so-called serious content the OP seems to be asking for.

This content is drawing a lot of people, possibly because people like it.

Harder, challenging more serious content has always drawn less people.

cesmode.4257:

I never played GW1, I dont know who primordus is…or what he is. But he sounds way more kitten and epic than a tiny sylvari. I just couldn’t get around Scarlet as a villain…but I could definately dig some sort of true epic destruction of the world.

I really don’t understand this at all. The idea that somehow dangerous foes have to be big.

Last time I checked, the creatures that have caused the most deaths on the planet earth were fleas and mosquitos…and not the giant kind either.

When I see a giant boss, in games were all bosses are giant, I think, here we go again. The only way to make a boss more powerful is to make him bigger.

Superman and spiderman are pretty powerful and they’re human sized. Why does a boss have to be big to be dangerous?

Edit: Even in Guild Wars 1, in the Ring of Fire mission (the last mission in Prophecies), the tiny sparks were far more dangerous than the giant titans. They were far more likely to kill you.

The reason dedicated healing was removed from the game was the problem that the trinity caused for the game. If you make content that requires a healer, you have to wait for a healer and you are dependent on a healer. Since most people want to DPS, this often means a lengthy wait. Anet didn’t want people to have to wait much to start a dungeon. In this they have succeeded.

If they make the content so you must have a healer this strategy fails. If they make the content so that you don’t need a healer, then you don’t need a healer…at least not in most places in PvE.

That said, there are plenty of people in my guild who enjoy healing and run dungeons with us and play that play style and we’re happy to have them.

We don’t need them to be healers, but unlike speed run groups, we don’t require them to be full DPS either.

I don’t know. I looked at exotic weapons. I looked at legendary weapons. Exotics were massively easy to get. Legendaries were amazingly hard to get (certainly for the average player).

There needed to be something in between…in my opinion anyway and apparently Anets.

They probably would have had another tier at launch if they didn’t want to release before MoP (that’s my opinion not fact). But they released when they felt they had to, as any business would.

I’m pretty sure most people think the game wasn’t ready, with broken quest chains etc.

I’m also pretty sure they spoke about ascended gear before launch and never annouced it, because it wasn’t ready to go into the game.

The whole debacle could have probably been avoided if Anet were better at communicating.

Having maximum stats isn’t something you can’t DO. You don’t do stats. There’s no content in the game, ie stuff you can play, that you must have ascended armor for. Maybe, MAYBE a level 50 fractal, but I’m not even sure about that.

In theory you could grind lower level fractals forever, till you had enough infusions to not need ascended armor.

The point is, though, saying max stats is content, because in other games people want BIS gear is ridiculous.

Because in most other games that gear is required to clear content. In some games its required to even attempt content.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

I almost feel sorry for the dedicated few holding on to Anet’s vision and still defending them. Almost.

But to do or say the same thing over and over and expect something different is insanity, and I have no sympathy for self imposed insanity.

I almost feel bad for people who need to demean people who have a different opinion than they do. Honestly, you have your opinion and your’e entitled to it. Saying that you feel bad for people who have a different opinion is borderline offensive, not to mention argumentative.

If you have something of substance to say to add to the discussion, by all means, bring it on.

But disparaging people for having an opinion that differs from yours?

Probably not the best thing to post on forums…even if you think it.

I am entitled to my opinion the same way you are. If you find what I said offensive, that is an issue with you, not me, as it was not meant to be offensive. I can give you the definition of insanity if you like, but I have a feeling you know how to use google

At no point did I insult or attack anyone with that post, people just have my sympathy for doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. However, if they do it to themselves, no sympathy should be given.

Being condescending is against forum rules. Saying that you almost feel sorry for people who think a certain way is condescending, and certainly could be considered offensive.

You shouldn’t feel sorry for people who are enjoying a game you don’t like. That makes no sense. They should feel sorry for you for you not enjoying it.

Since when is enjoying something something you need to sympathize with?

The implication here is that your way of thinking is correct and we’re somehow deluded for liking this game.

I think you need to really think about what you’re saying here.

LordByron.8369:

Exactly as i said now we should debate on the meaning of “normal person”……
Vayne you clearly love this game and i am really happy for you….

But all you have left is trying this boring tactic of analyzing and discussing the meaning of every word….and its not working.

You’re missing the point. You made the comment of what a normal person would do, and I’m pointing out what a normal person would do. This isn’t some semantic game.

You’re try to skew the truth and saying that I’m twisting words, when I haven’t twisted a single word. Not one. Words were my business for a very very long time. I not only saw the manifesto, but I saw what Anet said about the manifesto after the manifesto. This isn’t guesswork or some theory. This is what was said.

You can ignore that as much as you like but it doesn’t make it untrue.

LordByron.8369:

I strongly suggest you to watch the thread vayne opened about the manifesto…..

He distorted anything said by anet with retrospection….

The point is:
If you take a normal person and show him the manifesto he will understand what obviously the game imply.

That is different from Playing with every single word of it trying to suggest hidden meanings to make it live with the current game direction…….

If you look at gae mechanics its easy to see ascended was never planned:
Infact the game was focused on play the way you want…

i could get bis, by www, by crafting by dungeons etc etc.

Ascended needed to overhaul a complex system, and it couldn t be done well due to the amount of work required.

In fact tafter a year they still have to introduce different access to BiS items…

There are a lot of points aeasily disproving any point vayne made on his thread but he will play more with words than just using common sense until you will discuss even what “best in slot” means or stuff like that…..

NB: its a critic to his logic not to him.

A normal person? You mean people who hang on every word a company says for years and makes it a mantra? Is this the definition of normal you’re using?

A normal person sees something like the manifesto, says that’s cool, doesn’t memorize it, sees it as a concept piece and forgets about it for two years. That’s pretty much what normal people do.

I submit no party on any side of this argument is “normal” in the sense of average.

On the other hand, I didn’t twist a single word. Not one. I took the words in context, by including all of them. The people arguing the manifesto is talking about gear or gear grind have nothing in the manifesto to back them up.

chemiclord.3978:

BeoErgon.9107:

No.
BIS gear was presented as easy to obtain by the time you reach 80.
There is nothing easy in obtaining ascended and more that evident that you will not get BIS when hitting 80 if you are new.

So yes… gear was supposed to be left out of the grind and BIS was supposed to be in your hands before “getting to fun stuff”.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think Vayne is saying that Arena.net didn’t go against their initial plan with the entire addition of Ascended (in fact, I believe he has said the opposite). I think is point is that the Manifesto is NOT where they stated that intention, and thus using the Manifesto for that purpose is inaccurate.

Pretty much what I’m saying. I think the manifesto, with the exception of a single line, is pretty much accurate or close to accurate.

People keep bringing it up.

If you don’t like ascended gear, you can not like it without trying to put it in the manifesto. Since I don’t believe the manifesto talks about gear, it doesn’t strengthen your case.

I’m not a fan of ascended gear either, or gear progression.

BeoErgon.9107:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not really significant if you think you know what grind means. For the purposes of the video, Colin said most games have this annoying “grind” before you get to the fun stuff…before you get to fun stuff…not before you get new gear and raid.

No.
BIS gear was presented as easy to obtain by the time you reach 80.
There is nothing easy in obtaining ascended and more that evident that you will not get BIS when hitting 80 if you are new.

So yes… gear was supposed to be left out of the grind and BIS was supposed to be in your hands before “getting to fun stuff”.

Sorry this thread said what happened to the manifesto. Are you suggesting that BIS gear was supposed to be easy to get according to the manifesto?

I’d be happy to discuss other places that Anet said this is another thread.

tigirius.9014:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

I almost feel sorry for the dedicated few holding on to Anet’s vision and still defending them. Almost.

But to do or say the same thing over and over and expect something different is insanity, and I have no sympathy for self imposed insanity.

I almost feel bad for people who need to demean people who have a different opinion than they do. Honestly, you have your opinion and your’e entitled to it. Saying that you feel bad for people who have a different opinion is borderline offensive, not to mention argumentative.

If you have something of substance to say to add to the discussion, by all means, bring it on.

But disparaging people for having an opinion that differs from yours?

Probably not the best thing to post on forums…even if you think it.

Which vision would that be? The vision pre-launch that’s nothing like the game now?
The vision from Nov 2012 where Fractals would be the end all be all of all new content? or the vision of the living story being an adequate replacement for the monthly updates to DEs/Metas we thought this game would be based on the prelaunch interviews? because in my experience their vision has been a little ADHD.

I thought that by now they would have realized the grind isn’t supposed to be part of their vision, or that mmo’s shouldn’t be second jobs, or that the crowd that contributed a significant amount to their success was as important as these constantly complaining hardcore players that want every mob to be a boss and every boss to be in an instance.

As far as rewards, I’d like to see some currency system that doesn’t require hours of mindless grind, I’d like to see fewer gold sinks for gear, and I’d like to see a system that doesn’t desparage crafters, I’d also like to see a system for cosmetic gear that doesn’t require boxes and that adds cosmetics new cosmetics monthly.

I’m sorry were you defending someone for saying he felt sorry for people who like and defend this game…because it sounds like you are.

If you think those comments are okay, that’s fine. They’re not okay. They’re never going to be okay.

Whatever your opinion of the direction of the game, it’s not okay to get personal.

frans.8092:

VOLKON.1290:

That’s just the point, I am looking at the spirit behind it! It’s the people twisting the words and meanings into something unintended then claiming the manifesto has somehow been violated that are the problems.

You are twisting words and meanings into something not intended by the manifesto.

No grind is quite clear, as is ‘everything you loved about guildwars’. I know what I loved about it and a lot of it is not in it.

I know what grind is and it’s what you need to do to get the current best-in-slot. Grind is gathering mats, killing x monsters, y veterans and some more of those every single day to get the tokens that will buy the trinkets, and daily champion trains and dungeon runs to acquire gold to buy the other stuff to craft the best-in-slot weapons and (maybe) the armor. Individually all of these activities can be fun, occasionally, but it stops being fun and becomes a grind when it has to be done every day.

A full set of the current best-in-slot (ascended) is more then 30% stronger then the previous best-in-slot (exotic). Eventually you will need it in Wvw when more and more players use it, and you’ll need it for new content, when all those players running on the next gear tier want content made for the power level of their hard earned gear.

I understand that every gear-treadmill starts with the first step, which has been taken. How many steps does it take to convince you that they have diverted from their manifesto?

It’s so funny when people say they know what grind is. Except grind HAS multiple definitions and Colin took the time to define how he meant it in the manifesto itself. When someone ignores how you define something in a document (or video), then they are in fact taking the comment out of context.

It’s not really significant if you think you know what grind means. For the purposes of the video, Colin said most games have this annoying “grind” before you get to the fun stuff…before you get to fun stuff…not before you get new gear and raid.

Saying you know what grind is, while ignoring how it was defined in the manifesto is the very definition of taking something out of context.

Words don’t exist all by themselves. They’re formed into paragraphs for a reason. Colin later clarified it and specifically gave examples of what he was talking about. The Shadow Behemoth is an encounter that happens in a starter zone for a reason.

If you think that somehow equates to gear grind, I guess I have nothing more to say.

Aeonblade.8709:

I almost feel sorry for the dedicated few holding on to Anet’s vision and still defending them. Almost.

But to do or say the same thing over and over and expect something different is insanity, and I have no sympathy for self imposed insanity.

I almost feel bad for people who need to demean people who have a different opinion than they do. Honestly, you have your opinion and your’e entitled to it. Saying that you feel bad for people who have a different opinion is borderline offensive, not to mention argumentative.

If you have something of substance to say to add to the discussion, by all means, bring it on.

But disparaging people for having an opinion that differs from yours?

Probably not the best thing to post on forums…even if you think it.

People are acting like this game was the first MMO to ever introduce temporary content. Almost all games have it to some degree.

When I played Rift, we had content that we played for a month and then it went away. Some kind of invasion. Some kind of currency. Rewards specific to that content. No one in Rift called it temporary content, even though that’s what it was. I didn’t see one complaint about it on the Rift forums and I pretty much lived on those forums.

All events in game that end are in fact temporary. But much of the temporary content people are complaining about here is in fact recurring content.

Holidays in Guild Wars 1, Halloween, the Dragon Festival, Wintersdays, is some of the most popular content in the game, but it only comes once a year. Do you really think if it was there all the time it would be so popular?

People wait for it and log in. It was successful. Anet is trying to recreate that success. So they come out with Dragon Bash, Bazaar of the Four Winds, SAB and the Queen’s Pavillion all of which can be reused. That content isn’t temporary, it’s recurring.

Which brings us to the other temporary content. For the most part, the big stuff has stayed. The Karka Queen is still here. I don’t see anyone complaining the stupid mini dungeon minigame from the Southsun update is gone. Are we complaining about banging in signs? Are we complaining about periscopes with knockback that people couldn’t wait to see the back of?

Because the Jumping puzzle added with the Scarlet Invasion patch is still here and so are the Scarlet invasions. In fact, when you look at the list, most of the big stuff is still here.

It makes absolutely no sense to have the portal invasions of molten alliance continue after we beat them, but the Tower event did change the zone. It left behind new champions, new events, changes to hearts, even deleted waypoints. This is the true strength of the living world.

The only two things people really can complain about not being there are the Aetherblade dungeon and the Molten Facility, both of which have made a return in Fractals. Not exactly the same, but no one will miss them.

And I guarantee you, if they were left in the game, no one would ever do them by now.

It’s like old dungeons in most games. They sit abandoned while people do new content.

Bagel.4598:

Yes this game does force you to acquire ascended gear to participate in Fractals.

This game forces to to acquire ascended gear to do only the absolute highest level fractals, which were themselves introduced for people who wanted to play that play style of grinding.

Anet had once said you can play the way you want to play. Grinders needed something to do too.

But what this game does that other MMOs, for the most part, don’t, is allow you to experience ALL the fractals, without any ascended gear at all. Every fractal.

And the ascended gear you need to play all the way to level 39 can be gotten by running the fractals themselves, so it’s self contained.

It’s a compromise that I think it perfectly acceptable. It’s not like you can’t see the content. It’s not even like you can’t replay the lower levels without ascended gear.

I think Volkon nailed it. When Anet said “our game isn’t about preparing to have fun”, it wasn’t talking about end game gear grind.

It was talking about the grind in most MMOs to get to max level so you could do the cool stuff.

But most of the cool stuff in this game you can do before you hit max level, with the exception of a few max level dungeons. Even Fractals can be run by lower level characters.

There aren’t many games that have dragons like the Shatterer in non-max level zones.

For all the people talking about how Anet promoted this game, when Colin was asked about the comments, he used the Shadow Behemoth as an example of how you don’t prepare to have fun. We have encounters like this in the first zone and throughout the game.

People talk about there not really being an “end game” in Guild Wars 2, and that’s very much part of the philosophy.

So no, it didn’t change, not from what was said in the manifesto anyway.

And Eric Flannum did say there would be things for people to grind for for those who enjoyed that play style. How come no one ever brings that up?

People chose to see vertical progression as something the manifesto talked about. I just watched it. I didn’t see vertical progression.

Hell, vertical progress already existed in the game at launch and no one said a word. Exotic 80th level gear is a tier of gear higher than rare 80th level gear. That’s vertical progression.

So no one can say the game didn’t launch with vertical progression.

Now, Anet did make comments about casually obtaining the highest tier of gear. That’s 100% true.

But that doesn’t have anything to do with the manifesto video. And not one person in this thread has given any evidence that it has.

I don’t think this game is going to evolve into a typical MMO. I think that Anet has made strides to compromise, because the original game, which I loved, wasn’t “sticky” enough. People really could just walk away and not come back.

Now, with the achievements and the living story, the game has gotten a new type of stickiness, something proven to keep a percentage of people. My guess is enough to fund the game.

Which means Anet won’t have to go the route of gear progression anymore, because they found another route to stickiness.

They can hold and on gain more players now and new players coming in will not have the changes to deal with that older players saw as a betrayal.

Mars.6319:

Behellagh.1468:

Mars.6319:

Colin Johanson spoke about ANet’s manifesto leading up to and during GW2’s beta program in early 2012.

In June 2012 Nexon invested in NCSoft and became NCSoft’s largest shareholder.

Around this time Crystin Cox, perhaps best known for her work at Nexon with Maplestory’s cash shop, became GW2’s monetization manager.

Is GW2 becoming more like GW1 or Maplestory?

Wrong! She was hired months (3/12) before Nexon purchase their share in NCSOFT (6/12) which was months before the game shipped. So she’s been in charge of the store since before the game went live.

The question you all should be asking is would it be worse, whatever slight you feel the Gem Store is doing to you or what it would be like if the exchange didn’t exist?. If everyone was forced to spend cash to get anything. How many $10 bank slots or $7.50 character slots would you have bought? or ~$1 keys? or $5-10 armor or city outfits?

That’s part of the problem. Imagine you’re Ms Cox, hired away from Nexon to run a cash shop and on day one they tell you players can buy items from the cash shop with in game currency. Basically that throws everything, every trick you know in running a true cash shop out the window. You now can’t make the items too cheap because then everyone will just use in game currency. But you are still stuck with not making them too expensive because then few will be able to buy it. She had to figure out new ways to motivate players into buying gems with cash.

Right now it looks like these little bursts of desirable items nearly all at once to deplete players gold reserves so they are forced to buy gems is the current strategy.

I didn’t mean to lay the blame solely on Ms Cox, I was just pointing out that Nexon had a huge influence on ANet in 2012… so much so that ANet hired a former Nexon employee to run their cash shop just 3 months before Nexon became the largest share holder of NCSoft stock… which doesn’t seem entirely coincidental.

GW2 is playable without buying gems and ANet has done a great job of providing us with new content. There are hundreds of MMOs out there and GW2 is my favorite of them all so ANet must be doing something right. Just the same I’m disappointed in various things like the way legendary weapons and ascended gear has been handled… as well as things like the infinite continue coin during the SAB fiasco… ugh. I’m also weary of the coming sPvP changes as the removal of the more or less worthless Glory while sPvP transitions to Gold means the coming changes will likely be opened up to monetization via Gem conversions.

I get that ANet needs to make money and don’t begrudge them that but the current drive to make buying gold via Gems desirable by making the acquisition of top tier gear painfully slow with the option of cashing out for instant gratification is a huge letdown.

I once hired a former employee from another electronics store. That electronics store had nothing whatsoever to do with my store and nothing that employee did had anything to do with that store.

The key word here is former. Anet hired a former employee. That means someone worked for one company and came and worked for a new company. In this industry people move from company to company all the time.

In fact, Guild Wars was founded by three guys who came from Blizzard. Are you suggesting Blizzard had influence over how they developed Guild Wars?

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If you look at the number of times in the “advertising” words like vertical progression were mentioned, you’d find that the game was advertised on dynamic events, personal story, and active combat.

The number of times an aspect of a product is advertised is not relevant. If you own a store that sells men’s clothing and advertise ten times that your shirts cost $10 putting out one hundred advertisements that your jackets cost $100 does not negate the advertisement for your shirts.

Yes the Manifesto is a three year old video…one that is still presented on the game’s official site.

And the official Guild Wars 2 strategy guide still says that you get dye seeds and have to take them to an NPC in your home instance to grow them into dyes. Should they reprint it?

The strategy guide is a product not an advertisement. If it is faulty it might not be a bad idea to recreate it to be functional though.

Vayne.8563:

Everyone knows MMOs change. But what you did here was ignore everything else I’ve been saying. You’re doing what I’m accusing others of doing to the manifesto…taking one bit of what I said while ignoring the context. The context here is simple.

Nope. I am not ignoring anything. I am also keeping everything said in context.

Vayne.8563:

Now your example about a $10 sale is also very misleading. Because that’s something that’s immient. The sale is now. It’s not something that can be dated.

I didn’t say anything about a sale. In my example the product is listed as having a certain price, not a temporary price.

Vayne.8563:

If you tried to take Anet to court over it and prove false advertising, you’d lose. It really is that simple.

Reread my post and then point out where I claimed false advertising. All I responded to was your claim that if a company advertises aspect of a product X more frequently than Y that Y somehow becomes non advertised as an aspect of the product. My example existed solely to demonstrate that even advertising one aspect of a company’s product/service an order of magnitude more frequently than another aspect does not render that other aspect null.

I’m saying that if a company says something about an MMO a couple of years before launch, it’s possible that it will change. No company goes back through everything they’ve published and puts in every change. It would be prohibitive, particularly because of how often these games change.

You don’t have to agree…but whether you do or not, all MMOs change, and no one goes back and changes every video or every article in their blog.

Majic.4801:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t know, he got to like level 22. I’m not sure by level 22, you can even know what the style of play is really like, particularly the end game style of play.

Granted, some professions don’t really “come alive” until higher levels (I’m looking at you, Mesmer), but odds are if a player doesn’t like, say, stabbing things with a sword at level 22, it probably won’t be any more appealing at level 80.

I found some characters to be particularly hard to play at low levels though. I died a lot on my ele until I got into my 30s, probably around level 35-36.

So if you don’t like dying, that’s a big change in how the game plays. The ele might be perfect for you, but you’d never know if you hate dying so you gave up on it.

ATC.8714:

Vayne.8563:

I’ve been playing since the very first beta and this is still my favorite MMO of all time. The shine does wear off at some point and you start to see the flaws (there are plenty) but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s nowhere to go from here. There’s no better MMO for my play style. This game suits me perfectly…or nearly perfectly anyway.

Hope you get as much pleasure out of playing this game as I have in the many thousands of hours I’ve put into it.

You know, I’d not considered “favourite MMO” but in fact I might find myself reaching the same conclusion. There were always gripes that I had with other MMOs that in my opinion GW2 has “solved” for me. We’ll see where this goes when I unearth the less lovable aspects of the game. I’ve already hit level 80 on one character, so I’m now working on another

I’ve tried lots of MMOs…WoW, Rift, Aion, Perfect World, Lotro, DDO, Eve, TSW and a bunch of others… this is the only one I could stomach for more than three or four months. lol

I don’t know, he got to like level 22. I’m not sure by level 22, you can even know what the style of play is really like, particularly the end game style of play.

The only thing I’d say, is that even some of the professions have changed. I didn’t like the necromancer at launch (I felt it was far too limited) and now it’s one of my favorite professions.

I’ve been playing since the very first beta and this is still my favorite MMO of all time. The shine does wear off at some point and you start to see the flaws (there are plenty) but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s nowhere to go from here. There’s no better MMO for my play style. This game suits me perfectly…or nearly perfectly anyway.

Hope you get as much pleasure out of playing this game as I have in the many thousands of hours I’ve put into it.

Ashen.2907:

Vayne.8563:

If you look at the number of times in the “advertising” words like vertical progression were mentioned, you’d find that the game was advertised on dynamic events, personal story, and active combat.

The number of times an aspect of a product is advertised is not relevant. If you own a store that sells men’s clothing and advertise ten times that your shirts cost $10 putting out one hundred advertisements that your jackets cost $100 does not negate the advertisement for your shirts.

Yes the Manifesto is a three year old video…one that is still presented on the game’s official site.

And the official Guild Wars 2 strategy guide still says that you get dye seeds and have to take them to an NPC in your home instance to grow them into dyes. Should they reprint it?

Everyone knows MMOs change. But what you did here was ignore everything else I’ve been saying. You’re doing what I’m accusing others of doing to the manifesto…taking one bit of what I said while ignoring the context. The context here is simple.

I think people have misintepreted the manifesto, by taking stuff out of context. They take one line, they ignore the previous and following line and then have the audacity to say that Anet advertised the game falsely.

Now your example about a $10 sale is also very misleading. Because that’s something that’s immient. The sale is now. It’s not something that can be dated.

In other words Anet went into tons of detail after the fact, the manifesto itself is pretty much still preventative of the game, and some people just choose to misinterpret it. If you tried to take Anet to court over it and prove false advertising, you’d lose. It really is that simple.

Anet wouldn’t even be asked to take the video down.

This is people who have an ax to grind blowing something completely out of proportion.

Anet stated very clearly (as every MMO does) that it owns the world and it’s entitled to change the game. Anet offered refunds for six months, which is very generous.

That’s ALL Anet is required to do. The most you could get is a refund which Anet offered in the first place.

This whole conversation about the manifesto is ridiculous and has been for the last year.

An MMO started up, made some changes. It happens all the time. Sometimes they change drastically.

Those who don’t like the changes say false advertising, those who like the changes say Anet has improved the product.

Shrugs. Keep believing it’s false advertising if you want. But I’m pretty sure a lawyer would disagree with you.

This game has changed so much, it would be almost impossible to outline in a single post everything that’s changed. A lot of the stuff has come and gone (some of which will be back again), but of the major changes…

The introduction of fractals (a series of minidungeons), a new dungeon path in TA, a revamp of both Tequatl and the Ascalon Catacombs dungeons, WvW rank levels now exist, glory in SPvP is being phased out and there are new maps and an observation mode), an account wallet has been added for currencies, dailies and monthlies now reward laurels (but you can choose the ones you want to do most out of a rather long list), ascended armor and weapons have been introduced, champions are now more rewarding to fight, a new healing skill has been added for each profession, you can now preview armor and weapons and dyes in the trading post, the living story now does content updates every two weeks (the next one being January 21st), Southsun Island now exists (but most people don’t go there), there are new jumping puzzles since you left (I love jumping puzzles), there’s a new rotation of minigames since you left.

I mean a lot has happened.

morrolan.9608:

Kevan.8912:

Lynne.8416:

The manifesto was released in like 2010 right? The game wasn’t even released until 2012. The game went through changes between beta and release, and the game has made significant changes since release. Therefore, the manifesto is no longer applicable to the game. The manifesto was their intention for the game in 2010. We are now in 2014 and I expect more changes to come. 2 years from now the game could be totally different from today’s version.

mmmmh, no.
alpha/beta changes…is more about technical issues of a game, servers, or new maps, or little (not that little, but not substantial) changes, like timers cooldowns interface AI etc

manifesto is more than it: it’s the “philosophy” behind a game. it’s also about the players’ subpopulation it is advertised for.

There’s also the fact that most of the marketing and dev statements about the game almost up until release reflected that philosophy.

This statement you’ve made is demonstrably false.

Most of the statesments the devs made about the game prior to release didn’t mention vertical progression or gear grind at all. Only an tiny tiny percentage of dev quotes talked about that, and almost always only in response to a question asked by someone.

Devs spent countless hours talking about dynamic events and personal story and combat. The amount of time devs even mentioned this were miniscule by comparison.

It’s easy enough to do the research if you don’t believe me.

Kevan.8912:

Behellagh.1468:

mergi.1407:

An accountant, a game dev and a manifesto are shipwrecked on an island.

The manifesto goes “GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill;”

The accountant coughs and at the same time mumbles under his breath “Gem Shop!”

The game dev points to a ship on the horizon and say “Look! We are saved here comes the Titanic!”

Gem Shop isn’t a “trap”, it’s an income model. There was a time when nearly all MMOs were monthly subscriptions. So if not subscription or cash shop what do you suggest? Tip jar?

everyone agrees that a mmo game, as provides new content and servers up, needs money.
ok with pets, minis, powerups, skins and other funny stuff. there’s no real impact on the gameplay.
however, earning because the game frustrates the casual player, forcing them to buy gold and slots, is despicable.

about manifesto: i’m sure it’s online ALSO because it’s still valid.
simply, anet preferred to “ignore” it because of money. that’s economy

and many players are going to “ignore” gw2 because it’s no longer what they wanted to play to. that’s economy as well.
The customer is king.

Vayne.8563:

If you look at the number of times in the “advertising” words like vertical progression were mentioned, you’d find that the game was advertised on dynamic events, personal story, and active combat.

The other stuff was side bar stuff that if it was important to an individual they focused on it to the exclusion of all else. But it wasn’t what the game was advertised on.

side stuff? no grind and no vertical progression?
uhm. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
to me, it seems a main feature they advertised.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet's_MMO_Manifesto_trailer

totally disagree with you Vayne.
it’s not players fault to stick to anet’s word.
it’s anet’s, as they revealed unreliable.

You’ve produced two links from three years worth of advertising. Three years. You can disagree till the cows come home, but it doesn’t make you right.

More to the point,. the video manifesto, which started this whole thing, is being misinterpreted. Anyone can pull a single line out of a document and make it seem like it’s saying something else. “We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2.”

The problem here is the definition of grind. People are acting like there’s only one definition, when in fact, the original definition of grind was to kill monsters to level. That’s what grinding was. Not farming. Grinding.

And since the first part of that same paragraph DEFINES what grind is “In most games you have this terrible grind to get to the fun stuff”, how does that equate in your mind to gear or gear grind or gear progression.

To further add to this Colin came straight out afterwards, multiple times at conventions and in interviews and explained EXACTLY what that meant. Do you know the example he gave? The shadow behemoth. They put really cool encounters in low zones.

The paragraph ends with the line “we want to change the way people view COMBAT”. Not view gearing up. Not view farming mats. Combat.

He’s talking about just having fun playing in the world and not having to rush through leveling to get to max level to raid. How do I know this. Because he said it.

You can post that link from today till the end of time, it doesn’t change the fact that the grind being referred to is clearly defined in the document.

They advertised this game based on several things. The manifesto was one five minute video. That’s what it was. It’s been misinterpreted and lines from it are taken out of context to try to prove specific points. People have ignored the clarification posted three days after it, explaining some confusion. People have ignored the two years of stuff released afterwards explaining everything in much greater detail.

If you look at the number of times in the “advertising” words like vertical progression were mentioned, you’d find that the game was advertised on dynamic events, personal story, and active combat.

The other stuff was side bar stuff that if it was important to an individual they focused on it to the exclusion of all else. But it wasn’t what the game was advertised on.

Advertising focus is such that the more times something is mentioned, the more a company talks about it, the more important it is to the product. There are so many discussions around dynamic events and how they work and how they’re made and why they’re better.

The manifesto is a 3 year old 5 minute video. If people watched that and ignored everything said after that it’s not Anet’s fault.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Vayne.8563:

Let’s see.

Changes that persist.

Moa Racing (Lion’s Arch)
Not So Secret Jumping Puzzle (Gendarran Fields)
Twilight Arbor Aetherblade Path (Caledon Forest)
Tequatl (Sparkfly Swamp) completely redone
Sanctum Sprint (minigame)
Southsun Survival (minigame)
Kessex Hills (new events, hearts have changed, new daily chest)
WvW (ruins, ranks with specializations, traps, new area for GvG set aside)
PvP (solo queue for tournaments, observation mode and new arenas)
Crafting (six crafting professions now go up to 500)
Ascalon Catacombs revamp

Then there’s recurring content that isnt’ there today but is in fact new content that you can experience. Stuff like Dragon Bash, Bazarre of the Four Winds, the Queen’s Gauntlet and SAB.

Even the two dungeons that were available and taken away have returned to the Fractals, as new fractals…along with mistlock instabilities from level 31-50.

Those who say nothing has changed obviously aren’t looking very hard.

Edit: That’s not counting QoL updates of which their were many, including changes to champion bags.

And that is exactly the problem…. Almost a year and a half and the number of things that have changed in this game can be counted on your hands. Plus even if you put all those mini games together you’d have a total of about 4 people who cared and still play them.

Additionally none of those changes are very significant. They are all slight modifications more than complete changes. Aetherblade just replaced content, it didn’t even add it. Teq changed one fight and made it unaccessible to a large part of the player base.

It’s unfortunate that the game is solely catered to players who can play every day for 10 hours a day and not players who want to return and take a break once in a while.

We did get southsun and the PvP and WvW changes were pretty significant, so if you like PvP/WvW OP then I would at least take the time to check those out. However you will need to make sure to transfer to one of the 5-6 active WvW servers since the rest of the servers are dead.

The Aetherblade dungeon replaced a path very few people did (not only my own observations but Anet said so) with a path that is much longer and harder, with different mechanics made by a different programming team. You can say it’s not a new dungeon if you want, but you’d be wrong.

The Ascalon Catacombs revamp was pretty extensive too, I don’t know why you’d think it wasn’t.

But the other stuff that’s come in and gone IS content and even if it’s not here this second, it starts up again in two weeks.

You may personally not like that but a lot of people seem to.

What you’re really saying is there’s no content you personally like, and that’s fine. That doesn’t mean there’s no content.

Take the minigames for example. You claim 4 people play them. But every time I enter one, I’m in a full group, so I don’t know where you get that idea from. Maybe you’re just assuming people like the same stuff you like. I can assure you lots of people like the minigames and there have even been posts to this forum with people asking for more minigames.

Wryscher.1432:

Vayne.8563:

Let’s see.

Changes that persist.

Moa Racing (Lion’s Arch)
Not So Secret Jumping Puzzle (Gendarran Fields)
Twilight Arbor Aetherblade Path (Caledon Forest)
Tequatl (Sparkfly Swamp) completely redone
Sanctum Sprint (minigame)
Southsun Survival (minigame)
Kessex Hills (new events, hearts have changed, new daily chest)
WvW (ruins, ranks with specializations, traps, new area for GvG set aside)
PvP (solo queue for tournaments, observation mode and new arenas)
Crafting (six crafting professions now go up to 500)
Ascalon Catacombs revamp

Then there’s recurring content that isnt’ there today but is in fact new content that you can experience. Stuff like Dragon Bash, Bazarre of the Four Winds, the Queen’s Gauntlet and SAB.

Even the two dungeons that were available and taken away have returned to the Fractals, as new fractals…along with mistlock instabilities from level 31-50.

Those who say nothing has changed obviously aren’t looking very hard.

Edit: That’s not counting QoL updates of which their were many, including changes to champion bags.

Thank you. this is much more helpful then the previous if you dont like it go away post. Now I have some things to go check out.

You’re welcome.

For Tequatl, you’ll have to join a special guild…try ttsgamers.com. They organize Tequatl raids several times a day and usually succeed. The loot is pretty good.

People tend to run champion trains for champion bags in Queensdale and Frostgorge. Frostgorge is more profitable, but there’s no karma gain from it.

The TA dungeon is longer and harder than most and has a whole set of achievements that go with it.

The new fractal stuff is fun if you like dungeons.

But the real fun, for me anyway, is the stuff that comes with the living story.

You can still finish the tower scene in Kessex Hills (even though you missed most of the arc). And of course Wintersday is going on, if you like those sorts of events (not my cup of tea but some people love it).

I don’t know, I have different memories of Guild Wars 1. Most of the game, more than 90% of it, could be beaten by looking up a build in PvX Wiki, speccing out your heroes and pretty much doing nothing yourself. There were exceptions but they were few and far between.

There were many times in hard mode I’d just walk away from the computer to do stuff and my heroes would take out patrols while I was afk.

Build Wars was a skill game if you made your own builds. But if you looked up builds (or just paid for runs) you could beat just about everything.

Traveller.7496:

When I first logged in the forum it was great, though, lot of people with optimism for the game and generally positive response towards .. well, everything. It’s kinda changed over the time game’s been out.

Sure it’s changed. Because the people who like the game walked away.

I used to moderate another Guild Wars 2 fan forum, and it got sort of negative. Many of the people in my guild came from that forum and most still play and enjoy the game. I was the only person out of 40 or so people who didn’t leave that forum because of negativity.

If you like a game, why waste your time trying to defend it, instead of just playing it? That’s the issue.

I know people who used to come here and don’t anymore, because of the negative attitude.

If you put a teaspoon of wine into a barrel of sewerage…you get sewerage. If you put a teaspoon of sewerage into a barrel of wine…you get sewerage.

It’s much easier to destroy than it is to create. This forum has become painful to people who enjoy the game…and there are many of us.

I persist for personal reasons…and even I don’t post nearly as much as I used to.

First precusor drop.
Several memorable dungeon runs with my guild.
Taking on a zerg five times bigger than us in WvW by actually having a plan.
Soloing three guys on my necro in WvW.
Finishing the Clocktower jumping puzzle for the first time.
Discovering Anton’s ghost.
Sanctum Sprint, often
Being partied with guild members when they got percusor drops (on different ocassions)
1v1ing a younger hotshot in my guild who thought I was too old to take him down

Actually a lot of good memories aren’t just of events themselves but events with my guild.

My worst memory, for sure, is they say I first logged into this forum. lol

Let’s see.

Changes that persist.

Moa Racing (Lion’s Arch)
Not So Secret Jumping Puzzle (Gendarran Fields)
Twilight Arbor Aetherblade Path (Caledon Forest)
Tequatl (Sparkfly Swamp) completely redone
Sanctum Sprint (minigame)
Southsun Survival (minigame)
Kessex Hills (new events, hearts have changed, new daily chest)
WvW (ruins, ranks with specializations, traps, new area for GvG set aside)
PvP (solo queue for tournaments, observation mode and new arenas)
Crafting (six crafting professions now go up to 500)
Ascalon Catacombs revamp

Then there’s recurring content that isnt’ there today but is in fact new content that you can experience. Stuff like Dragon Bash, Bazarre of the Four Winds, the Queen’s Gauntlet and SAB.

Even the two dungeons that were available and taken away have returned to the Fractals, as new fractals…along with mistlock instabilities from level 31-50.

Those who say nothing has changed obviously aren’t looking very hard.

Edit: That’s not counting QoL updates of which their were many, including changes to champion bags.