Guild Wars 2

daydream.2938:

Visionary.5681:

New players join Spvp.

Get owned on their warrior , engi , necro , ranger, guardian, by a 3 Thief 2 Mesmer team.

They then think , why should i bother spending weeks learning this class , when i can insta-roll a theif or Mes, then start owning ?

They reroll to Thief or Mes.

New players join Spvp on their warrior , engi , necro , ranger, guardian.

You own them easilly with your 2minutes Thief/Mesmer experience.

Guess what class they go and reroll?

This is essentially Spvp. In an ideal world, you wouldnt need to nerf thief or mesmer, just actually make them harder to play somehow.

Thief and mesmer are not OP, they are just the first class thats easy to kill things with and tricky to fight against.

If you actually read my post. I didnt say Thief or Mes were OP, so im not sure why you are trying to create a strawman arguement for me saying so.

I was merely stating that, Thieve and Mes are just very easy classes to get lots of kills on, thats why they are so prominent. Hence i stated that in an ideal world, they wouldnt need a nerf, they just need to be made more complicated to play.

When the game first launched , i hated to fight thieves on my Engi.

I then switched from P/P to Rifle + FT. At that point i just had enough control i could play with thieves all i wanted, they couldnt get near me.

New players join Spvp.

Get owned on their warrior , engi , necro , ranger, guardian, by a 3 Thief 2 Mesmer team.

They then think , why should i bother spending weeks learning this class , when i can insta-roll a theif or Mes, then start owning ?

They reroll to Thief or Mes.

New players join Spvp on their warrior , engi , necro , ranger, guardian.

You own them easilly with your 2minutes Thief/Mesmer experience.

Guess what class they go and reroll?

This is essentially Spvp. In an ideal world, you wouldnt need to nerf thief or mesmer, just actually make them harder to play somehow.

Yes the imbalances are insane.

Downstate should be the easiest part to balance.

Your utilities and Traits are (majoritively) countered by the state. Class balances doesnt have to be interested or complicated in downstate. Its just a simple few abilities that need to balance.

Necro can do decent damage in downstate if they trait for it. Engi rely on rng for anything useful and crap damage always.

Engi then has a single target gap closer to assist an enemy in getting the stomp off on them (technically single target interupt) . Guardian have an aoe knockback.

Thief and Mes have a stealth ability (yeah wtf) , in their downstate, yet Necro have a poison field………… because yes , avoiding stomp is definately equivalent to a poison field.

I’d moan about Vengeance, but warriors have it tough enough as it is.

Its just ridiculous.

The lack of access to vigor has always been an issue with necro in general anyway.

When i play Spirit Watch as a Necro, it just feels like the entire map is designed against me.

I see people leaping and zapping all over the map as orb carriers. As the least mobile class this is annoying.

Then to see people doing all this stuff whilst being invunerable? Its stupid. Defeats the point of the map.

Well if you like playing caster classes. Then i’d recommend you pick up a Necro.

If you pick up an Ele, your friends will complain even more that your a fotm player.

If you take a Necro and beat them, i guess you prove skills? Try out a hybrid necro or something

Orrrrrr . get new friends

AmateurGod.5403

Everyone can spec for vigor, with more or less advantages.

Except Necro of course.

kailin.4905:

Defektive.7283:

Because after RTL you can lock down an ele pretty easily with immobolizers and knockbacks. Every tPvP game I’ve played that an enemy ele has ran it has lost the Orb.

Also, other classes have strong distance abilities.

I’ve been running Hammer/Sword-Warhorn, and if I have the orb I can actually Sword#2(Leap) over the bridges, go almost as far as RTL and it only has a 10sec cd not a 25.

Not to mention last night we used a Guardian (davinci) to run the orb and that felt more solid than an ele.

The only classes I feel that are at a disadvantage are Engineers and Necros since they lack gap closing mechanics.

Spirit Watch’s new mechanics will most definitely change the ‘meta’. The next step from ArenaNet are Ladder brackets visible to the public, new maps with new mechanics and have them be selected randomly per tournament.

So essentially the two weakest classes in pvp get the shaft yet again.

I really dont think they will bother increasing the viability of Engi or Necro in this role.

Why would they bother with such under representated classes? There is barely enough people of that class to moan anymore.

The issue is ; Facetanking damage isnt viable. Thusly Necro isnt an attrition class.

Any class that can avoid damage is going for far more attrition based than a class that has to soak it, without the soaking class having access to far above average regeneration.

That sounds like a post to incite interest in this subject. I’m assuming they havent rolled anything out so far, as there hasnt been enough publically voiced interest in the combat log compared to the rest of the things they have in the works.

I’d like chill to effect Thieves initiative

/cackle.

There is the other issue as i see it.

They want GW2 to become an Esport. Esports require spectators. 5asura vs 5asura (of the tiniest, skinniest build) will be crap boring to watch as an esport, because you wont be able to see who cast what and when.

I agree that they have already dug their own grave a little bit with this. The easiest solution as i see it, is as previously suggested. Upscale all Asura to a set size when they enter Spvp.

Power Necro isnt in a great place in pvp at the minute. You can work it if you put enough effort in, but your always fighting as an underdog.

I’m hoping bug fixes alone will help massively. As you have already said, dark pact and spectral grasp are prone to failure if there is any sort of terrain at all.

Being Necro in pve is all about making guardians look useless as tanks

PVT and good life force gain is win

I think a necromancer is better in a harassment role, than to stomp.

You can very easily force lots of players to burn their cd’s, making it alot easier for teammates to get the final downs and stomps off.

Setup a solo only queue with ranked matching and i think the amount of people doing free tournaments will skyrocket overnight.

I’m thinking it will be the start of something very positive.

This then only needs to be followed by esport applicable balance.

At best, the necro might be able to wear down the mesmer. Necro’s do excel at soaking damage whilst dealing consistent damage.

A few decent dodges from the necro to avoid the mes burst and it could all be the way of the Necro.

I think he added up all the damage from a channeled ability?

I hate to reference WoW but….

Alpha strike classes. You break stealth when you choose to. When you break it, you best make sure you picked your time, place and target well. If you did, you killed them with high alpha strike and burst. If you didnt, your either dead or burnt a long cd to escape.

GW2 Version is ;

Alpha strike with high initial burst. You messed it up? Who cares, instant reset and try again. Messed it up again? Ow well , have another free escape. There is no penalty to failure as a thief.

If Thieves kept their burst, kept their speed and ability to roam, but were punished for poor decisions. No one would moan.

People cite the lack of thieves in top level tpvp. That isnt because the class hasnt got imbalanced in certain areas that make it insanely strong. Its because through dedicated teamwork and communication , you can almost always know the position of the theif, even if you cant see them. That type of teamwork will never, ever be available in hotjoin pvp, or pug-tournaments. If the class isnt balanced in a majority of gameplay, it isnt balanced.

This is like the people who say the counter to d/d ele is to run more d/d ele…… which is inanely circular. Its not a solution, its fixing symptoms of a fault , without ever addressing the cause.

I also know that people hear nerf and expect to have their class turned into a spork, but Anet seems intent of small changes and tweaks to try and achieve a balance.

This then opens the question ; Why arent more thieves open to stealth or burst nerfs? It can be compensated by stronger play elsewhere, it would also mean you had a chance to display skill instead of facemash. Why arent more d/d ele’s open to nerfs to that single spec? If the nerf was spec specific, then it would allow buffs to be made to other areas of the class…

It seems to me people find an OP spec, and want to cling onto it with constant posts of ‘l2p’ all day on the forums. Surely there are Elementalists out there who would prefer the ability to choose other specs? No? Surely? If there is, why do none speak up? All i hear is Ele’s arent overpowered in this single spec…. erm….. go look at X-Class, it’s all their fault, not ours…

Question ; Who doesnt want to be a Taxidermist?

@Choops.
Arh is a classic ‘l2p’ poster.

He logs into the forum, spams l2p posts in all the threads about balance.

Then walks away thinking ‘wow, i must be the bestest’.

Convict.8526:

so many counters to a trap ranger,… its an l2p issue.

the trap build has been here since day 1. rangers havent had a single buff since the release. and right now trapping is the only decent viable tpvp build for rangers.

People who always reply with ‘L2P’ , generally know nothing.

People who reply with constructive answers, now they are the people worth listening to.

It is true that if you want to run as a counter to something specific. You currently have to switch class, you cant switch spec.

If your playing Necro, switching to power wont give you much at all. You can either run Conditions or Hybrid.

If what people stated above is correct about the games design philosophy. Then maybe what Necro’s lack more than heals scaling better/at all with healing power, is easier access to defensive boons.

Our accesss to Stability is almost non-existent (grand master trait 3 seconds). Our abilities that gives us access to Protection are on far to long cooldown or far to short uptime (wells or utility). Our retaliation is very short excluding Axe#3 which is uncommonly used due to poor implimentation.

Maybe instead of siphon and proc heals, we should be asking for more boon access?

So its not an escape. It slightly increases how much of a beating we can take.

@Dexxer

Portal on map 2 is an imbalance, that is all.

Portal used in this abusive manner , its an exploit.

The game decided you dont deserve points for rolling over us poor Necro’s anymore!

I guess this is why they are trialing it.

Definately needs to get sorted though.

Its not as if Portal and Time Warp arent imbalanced as it is.

I get the feeling this might encourage more balanced dungeon builds. I think we might see more people building with escapes and useful utility skills, instead of the nearly always pure glass cannon builds.

Probably not true for the veteran dungeoneers in gw2, but definately a possibility for those less experienced.

Waste of time.

Anet actually did nothing of any use.

Ow well , lets log back in, in about another 31 days and see if they have attempted to balance this game. This patch was literally useless.

I have high hopes.

Low expectations.

Arheundel, i know kids like to shoot their mouthes off to make themselves feel good…..

….but i digress

Try googling the name of the poster you keep telling, knows nothing about ele’s.

I personally am hoping for bug fixes. Once trait and ability bugs are fixed, they can start balancing skills properly.

As people above have mentioned ;-

Necro’s need babysitting.

Poor access to stability, poor escape ability, buggy teleports and the worse fears in game.

The reason Necro’s are represented in tpvp is a couple of long cooldown utilities, which are nice for teamfights.

Ezeriel.9574:

I would guess nothing….

I don’t think the devs play, or care, about necros at all.

When they infracted Ruufio for asking a question about shroudstomping, when they asked for people to ask questions, I gave up on caring.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Developer-Livestream-Questions/first#post1228926

My prediction is that they fix bugs that no one cares about, since they affect traits or skills that are so woefully underpowered, no one uses them.

People will then complain about no real fixes or implimentations.

People will then get infracted for asking questions about it in a mature manner, as in the infracted post linked above.

Sadly ; I’m probably correct.

Even if they decided that it needs a delay.

They could have it so that the flying hand flies fast and latches onto the target. Then after a short delay the teleport happens. Would allow you to use the teleport preemptively knowing that you’d get the teleport for sure.

The problem with dark path is you cant assume it will hit anything, you fire it, then hope it hits. You cant assume you will get a teleport out of it.

pierwola.9602:

Swagg.9236:

• Make the cast and teleport instant (click the button and whoosh, you’re there at your target).
• Turn the skill into a Death Shroud Ride the Lightning that just moves you really fast until you crash into your target, splashing Chill all over the place on people (It could even the be same animation, just dyed differently to reflect that it’s a Death Shroud skill).

+1

+2

Would love deathshroud to feel atleast a little bit dangerous.

RashanDale.3609:

Brtiva.9721:

Some abilities inflict damage to the necro…which somehow seems less than an exciting idea, you know? What is with that? I HAVE to be missing something here.

actually, sacrificing his own health/well-being to fuel some powerful spells was always a rather big part of the guild wars necromancer and necros/dark spellcasters in general.

if anything, the self-hurting and the effects of the skills should be greater, imo, because most of the time, the conditions you inflict on yourself can be ignored since they dont last long.

Problem is the spells inflict conditions on you, but you dont get a massive amount in return.

The spells arent more powerful than spells other classes get and they dont get bleeds and poisons on them in return.

Move it to Tier2. Then someone might use Axes!

At the minute Axes isnt viable without Axe Training.

No one takes Axe Training as its crap compared to Close to Death.

Make lifesteal scale with healing power.

Fixed

The reason the 100nade build kills so many is that people arent used to it yet.

Once you get net shotted, break it and dodge. The Engi is now a glass cannon with no burst cannon until cooldowns come back

Once people have seen it a few times, it will be as counterable as 100b

I agree with the bits of your post i didnt quote

I agree that thief needs a redesign, if they get nerfed, they need more utility or different utility.

Then i think to myself. Even with nerfed damage , they’d still be more pvp viable than a power necro

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The problem with valkyrie is your healthpool. as it’s easy to get farmed by a thief when concentratiing on another player. On the otherside the dmg is heavy as you said.

You should be losing 2v1 though. If things were balanced and skill was equal.

daydream.2938:

Point is , if thiefs where So OP you’d see EVERY top team running them.

Thats not actually true. Your use of caps does not make false statements any more true.

The complaint about thieves stems from their overpowered class mechanics and button-mash compliant burst.

The reason you dont see every top team running them is because, synergy is more important to high end play and thief isnt so much of a team fighter. Thief is more of a duelest class, which is why its also a popular pubstomper class.

Also alot of high end teams do you thieves.

daydream.2938:

it FACTUALLY is a l2p issue, it really is.

Caps still not making opinions factual.

daydream.2938:

People who argue thiefs are OP are literally demonstrating a lack of understanding of the game. My GOD play a elementalist and master it, and youll pretty much NEVER lose a 1on1 to a thief again.

Your answer to balanced pvp is, if you dont play a Thieves, you have to play a single spec of Elementalist?

Surely a more logical way of thinking about this is, thieves need balancing properly and so does the single spec of elementalist (which we know is under review at the minute anyway).

daydream.2938:

THIEVES ARE NOT OVERPOWERED.

More caps lock as overcompensation for a poor arguement. I wonder why people wont take your post seriously?

Just as an end note. I personally feel that the issue with thieves isnt that they arent counterable. I think the issue is that certain classes and certain specs arent capable of countering them sufficiently.

Classes with lots of ground targeting aoe, aoe knockback, teleports, or easy access to retaliation seem to do fine against thieves, when in a non glass cannon spec.

Now there are classes who dont have long duration/easy acccess to retaliation. There are classes who dont have any mechanic for knockbacks, reguardless of spec/utilities chosen. There are classes who dont have ranged, ground targeted aoe, which is spammable, high dps, or short cooldown.

If thieves are to be kept the way they are now, there would need to be a redesign of atleast a few classes to properly counter them.

Surely its easier to fix the problem, rather than try to patch the symptoms?

Thanks for sharing your work with us!

Amazing results

Nice work Anet

I love the arguements that Mesmers are using again and again to justify it.

Thieves can do it , so why shouldnt we be able to?

Its the same arguement they use to justify burst , anti-stun, disables , escapes.

The point is ; Thieves arent representative of GW2 classes.

Condition necro needs tweaking.

Power necro needs steroids. Its a sad state of play when you have all these buttons , yet you loose dps by pressing any of them. An auto attack class? Really? Ow the fun

jportell.2197:

Essentially all melee classes auto attacks hit more than one target directly in front of them and griping about our abilities to use clones and swap with them is griping about how the class is supposed to function… Kinda ridiculous if you ask me.

Awsome , i’ll let my Necro know his Dagger is allowed to cleave now

A melee tank form!

I like

Although i think the abilities are a tad op, bearing in mind you can be in DS atleast 50% of the time with dagger build.