Guild Wars 2

does retal work on conditions ?

like 10 stacks of bleed would proc 10 times retal each sec ?

wondering about this , if it does retal conditons then i might wanne make a guard

chrisk.4320:

I think he means people that are using macros that are doing multiple actions(1click=1action only)

My statement still stands. The purpose of macros are to press multiple keys at once. If GW2 doesn’t want people to do that, then put all skills on a global cooldown when a skill is casting, a la elementalist attunement GCD.

Not going to happen. You can’t just ban people who use legitimate Logitech/Razer/etc. devices. Macros serve people with RSI issues too.

its not cause you got the mouse and keyboard that you need to make chain macro’s
( i dont , and i have the gaming keybaord and mouse )
anet clearly said , 1 click = 1 action
( anything else = risk on ban)

1 click = 3 actions in a row or more
for me this would mean you allow botting ( 1 click = 1000 actions going of in a row)

+1 for BIG BAN hammer for any1 who breaks this simple rule
(i rather have less people playing , then all people playing with half of them breaking the game rules)

Psybunny.8906:

This would buff unicorn thieves way too immensely. This would be way too OP.

i have to agreee tho not saying i woudnt want to see the people’s reaction to it

its not like the endless dodger builds arent OP already

here’s mine , this build made me never want to use stealth again
and to show people thiefs can be annoying without the use of stealth to

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmiOXey5E95Eh3jvO2wqVgmdPuKXtKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkat+Y8xeh5CA

copy past it if you want to see it :s

cheerz

my build , enjoy

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYmiOXey5E95Eh3jvO2wqVgmdPuKXtKA;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkat+Y8xeh5CA

copy / past it into browser ( seems to bug out on the forum “bad link”)

strengths of this build :

- 90%+ evade rate ( almost never runs out of dodges)
- able to hold points against 2 or 3 other players ( depending on how good the other players are )
- high bleed / poison damage ( a lot of cripple )
- high might stacking ( can get up to 10 stacks in fights )
- high mobility / survivability
- no BLOODY STEALTH AT ALL ( so people cant really complain about it yet )

weaknesses
- players with high condition removals
( bunker vs bunker fights , you wont die and they wont die either .
BUT you tend to survive longer in teamfights then they do )
- ground target AOE’s ( they tend to hit you even if you evade , like necro’s marks )

- be aware of other condition build players running around ( they can kill )
( you only have 1 “o shi t” condi removal if you ever get a huge stack of conditions on you that is " long live shadow step")

hint : use your healing skill for more then just healing
( it gives you 4 ini / dodge/ 4 k health / 50% endurance = 2dodges on thief / vigor/ removes cripple& imobil) every 15 secs ….. ( and its a pretty good movement skill to )

hope it can bring you the same fun fights i’m having

cheerz jim
aka my thief is called Trippseeker

Rerroll.9083:

EaGrimdarK.7849:

If you get used to hitting 8-10 buttons instead of 4-5 buttons you could play an Ele and: .

8-10 buttons -> false

*Never die if you dont want to

in a 1v1 maybe, in every existing situation? nah

EaGrimdarK.7849:

*Get tons of glory

As far as i know eles dont have increased glory :/ so again false

EaGrimdarK.7849:

*Feel better than everyone else

Is it a passive ele skill? I didnt see it :/

EaGrimdarK.7849:

*Use one of the many pre-thought of builds floating around every forum
*Be useful in every match

Only points you are right, but they also apply to other classes (guardian, mesmer, thief…)

EaGrimdarK.7849:

*Never die if you dont want to

Wow, you like repeating yourself dont you?

EaGrimdarK.7849:

They call it “skill curve”

They call it QQ

One ele is not a god like you fail to say
The OPness comes from stacking many eles in a team because they can do every function required.

sure grimdark’s points arent all 100% true….
tho your point is 100% true !

The OPness comes from stacking many eles in a team because they can do every function required.

so you agree eles can do every function required making them just that little bit to OP in teamfights ( glad to hear an ele say it at last :P)

Makes me wonder why you broke down grimdarks post so hard .
( you both saying different things , tho your results are both the same )

:D
ow and “easy” pvp builds are

• ranger with shortbow ( spam 1 and set traps)
• thief in general is rather easy to play cause of the spamming you can do
• mesmer ( staff / condi/ phantasms) its rather easy ( requires more buttons )
• ele d/d (not that easy to play , but not that easy to deal with either)

i have to say in a 3 vs 1 there is no such thing as easyplay ( if you are the solo 1 ofc )

my mesmer is called: Illusionary Triplet
helps creat alot more chaos

Pyrial.2917:

Void.4239:

Arheundel.6451:

Pyrial.2917:

Void.4239:

+1 for a big nerf on dd ele

can some1 give me a non ele build that has:
- great mobility
- great healing
- great condition removals
- great boon stacking
- that can take on 2 people and probebly still get away “if” it goes bad
- that has aoe’s for stun / conditions / burst / heal
- that has shields that stun/ freez attackers
- has stun breakers
- has "ow kitten skills " like mistform
- has cooldowns that recharge faster then the skill chain they can do
- that can compete as a bunker / point holder

wonder who will be able to find 1 that isnt an ele build
if no1 can give me a build that has all this ,
then i asume evry1 saying ele’s are fine are ……………………….. , wel be creative and fill it in yourself seeing you probably can talk allot of nonsense already ( and no curse words to keep it challenging ofc )

Shoot man, find me a single ele build that does all that too while you’re at it!

Why give him the luxury of attention?…he’s just your average thief player running backstab build and blinded by his own rage..the kind of nerfs he asks..will never come and he will keep crying on the forums..let him be

the DD ele can manage all i said,
and no i’m not a backstab thief , i find backstab to be to OP to , tho i have never had a problem with a thief using backstab .
Sure they may get me a few times when i’m not paying full attention , but so will i

and what nerfs did i ask ? clearly you reading something i didnt post
i’ll let the nerfing up to the devs , they should have a clear view about now, on whats unbalancing the ele about now

No, saying d/d is a very broad term. There are bunker eles and there are sustained. Not one build gets to do all of what you described.

i know that there are weaker builds to … but atm the popular DD ele got most of the things i said pure from rotating attunments and chaining 3/4/5 , ( cantrips do the rest )

devs have to adjust that 1 build , else eventualy evry1 will be forced to make anti ele builds or go DD ele themselfs, cause its already showing that there more and more DD ele’s in pvp

they had to do it with thief / mesmer / engi / ….. now there’s a build on ele that is forcing the other characters to build against the ele
they might be strong against the ele then , but they are probebly weak against things that the ele is still strong against. trust me its gone be beter for evry1 once they get that ele build under controle .

devs got the hard task of adjusting that 1 build without making other ele builds suffer cause of it. so i’m looking forward to see what devs make from it.

i’m not against the ele class , just so you know

Arheundel.6451:

Pyrial.2917:

Void.4239:

+1 for a big nerf on dd ele

can some1 give me a non ele build that has:
- great mobility
- great healing
- great condition removals
- great boon stacking
- that can take on 2 people and probebly still get away “if” it goes bad
- that has aoe’s for stun / conditions / burst / heal
- that has shields that stun/ freez attackers
- has stun breakers
- has "ow kitten skills " like mistform
- has cooldowns that recharge faster then the skill chain they can do
- that can compete as a bunker / point holder

wonder who will be able to find 1 that isnt an ele build
if no1 can give me a build that has all this ,
then i asume evry1 saying ele’s are fine are ……………………….. , wel be creative and fill it in yourself seeing you probably can talk allot of nonsense already ( and no curse words to keep it challenging ofc )

Shoot man, find me a single ele build that does all that too while you’re at it!

Why give him the luxury of attention?…he’s just your average thief player running backstab build and blinded by his own rage..the kind of nerfs he asks..will never come and he will keep crying on the forums..let him be

the DD ele can manage all i said,
and no i’m not a backstab thief , i find backstab to be to OP to , tho i have never had a problem with a thief using backstab .
Sure they may get me a few times when i’m not paying full attention , but so will i

and what nerfs did i ask ? clearly you reading something i didnt post
i’ll let the nerfing up to the devs , they should have a clear view about now, on whats unbalancing the ele about now

+1 for a big nerf on dd ele

can some1 give me a non ele build that has:
- great mobility
- great healing
- great condition removals
- great boon stacking
- that can take on 2 people and probebly still get away “if” it goes bad
- that has aoe’s for stun / conditions / burst / heal
- that has shields that stun/ freez attackers
- has stun breakers
- has "ow kitten skills " like mistform
- has cooldowns that recharge faster then the skill chain they can do
- that can compete as a bunker / point holder

wonder who will be able to find 1 that isnt an ele build
if no1 can give me a build that has all this ,
then i asume evry1 saying ele’s are fine are ……………………….. , wel be creative and fill it in yourself seeing you probably can talk allot of nonsense already ( and no curse words to keep it challenging ofc )

Baldric.6781:

The class has one good spec, but this spec is really really good (it’s the spec that probably 90% of eles use), it gives you, good condi removal, good aoe heals, good mobility, good tanking, easy access to all kinds of boons for you and your party and cc.
Obviously, no other class/spec has something like that, it gives you evertything except good damage and burst, and this spec still does more damage than the tanking guardian.
It will be nerfed, for sure.

i agree , its only character that got that kind of mobility + constant healing
, so either they make healing power have no influence on ele’s
, or they put a 50 sec cooldown on rtl (like most non target teleports )

in my opinion ele’s shoud have gotn 3 attunments instead of 4

now they got

fire => burst / conditions
lighting => stun / knockbacks/ tele’s
water => healing / condition removals
earth => burst / condition stacking

ow and all atunments produce boons ….

earth or fire coud have been left out.
now they do not get any punishment for going out of there dps attunment , since they can switch right back into there other dps attunment

I’m expecting 1 of the following to fix the ele class compared to other classes

option 1
- reduction in mobility ( rtl slower/ less range , OR 30-40 sec cooldown like most get out of jail free cards on other classes )

OR
option 2
- reduce the sustained heals ( that aren’t from basic healing skill )
( you should never be able to get more heals out of traits , then from the basic healing skill )

OR
option 3
- reduce outgoing dps by 1% for each point spend into water trait

any of these options would balance out the ele in par with other characters
( maybe reduce the aoe radius a little bit to )

else there’s a very good chance that +-30% of the players will be playing ele in pvp
and i don’t think that’s the intention of the devs

mesmers are more or less fine , i played them and played against them . sure they rather easy to play but so is evry class once you got a rotation in your fingertips.

evry character got a few points that coud be changed to balance it out abit better

after a while its easy to find the mesmer among the clones.
i can think of only 1 things that i felt was kinda op
- clones do damage ( bleed when they crit , and more or less they are a bleed on there own)
( clones shoud be for visual chaos only ( scatter skills ) . phantams for dps )

atm clones do damage while applying visual chaos, makes it a tad to hard when its a wel trained mesmer

but there are other characters that have bigger issues then this … ,
might be beter if they fixed / balanced other characters before thinking of adjusting the mesmer.

elementalist :
- ele water trait needs some adjusting ( to many condition removals / healing compared with other classes ) ,
- mistform shoud not heal ( seen alot of ele’s mistform and almost get there full health back from it )

thief :
- mug trait shoud not deal damage above 2 k ( in any build )
- nonstop stealthing shoud be on diminishing return or something that punishes overuse of it

ranger:
- pets shoud not be able to keep players in combat while the enemy is nowhere to be seen
- crossfire attack shoud have never been increased in attackspeed.

necro:
- ground targeting spells shoud not get a trait to increase the radius.( wells and marks are to big a radius atm)

and so on and so on
evry character got something small that coud be adjusted to balance it out

Maugetarr.6823:

Assuming that it’s on a GC build since you mentioned it being part of the onstage combo, let’s look at it this way: the thief, would have 100 condition damage only from the trickery traitline (since GC is mainly 30/30///* and has no reason to take condition armor/trinkets), which would add 5 damage per tick to the base bleed. With 5 stacks, that’s about 237 DPS, which would be less than one double strike of the autoattack chain which also has a good likelihood to crit on a GC thief, rendering it fairly useless. Comparatively speaking, a warrior stacks 8 bleeds with its sword burst + immobilizes the target for anywhere between 2-4 seconds. 5 points in deadly arts already gets you poison which has a base damage of 84 DPS, meaning it’s mainly useful for their healing being less effective on a GC build. This would simply shift mug to a condition build which would be SA>mug>C&D>SA (on a P/D build) allowing thieves to stack 15 bleed (just on par with ableed spec warrior) and just change which build is complained about the most. Like someone else mentioned though, this would hurt non-GC builds more like S/D where mug is only hitting for 2-5k every 45 seconds being primarily used as a finisher. Compare this with eviscerate on a GC warrior who could use it at full power every 10 seconds realistically and crit for 8k (conservatively speaking) that has a gap closer also built in (yes I know it’s only 300 range, but the warrior would already be in combat with you, had easy access to 30 second swiftness and can easily cripple/immobilize you with an axe)

it was never the meaning for mug ( a 10 traits point add) to do more then 2k added dps on an already uber mechanic, the 5-6 k hits you can build to is something that needs a fix , read my post above if you want to know why its to much for the
mechanics of steal.
3 stacks of might for 15secs woud be alot more balanced then the huge spike it can bring now , steal realy doesnt need to do dps at all its just to mutch for 1 skill to have plain and simple

really wondering what is taking the devs so long to realize this. its an easy fix that doesn’t harm the class at all

i’m a thief in pvp and i’m not afraid to say that the mug trait is OP compared to other 10 point traits.
i woudnt add 5 stacks of bleeding tho , 2-3stacks max or maybe 3 mights stacks instead of pure dps

i woud prefer the 3 mights stacks. it adds to conditioners and the crit builds ( so no1 will be left out )

Atm Mug adds to much dps to an already cool mechanic

lets see what thiefs mechanic realy does or can do

steal does:
- stun breaker( more or less )
- teleport
- skills stolen : mostly they add an advantage against the class you stole from ( some are beter then others but they are realy powerfull when used correctly )

steal can have added :

- 3 ini regen
- poison
- stealth
- mug dps => 1k-6k depending on build ( the max hit you can get with it is to high )

skill recharge is between 32-45 secs

again every thief that says mug is fine like it is = selfish and is afraid he will loos the advantage the skill brings with it.

we really don’t need the mug trait to be killers, but atm we forced to use it cause its just to OP

Klassic.8057:

wtf is this kitten anet? I’m at 4%, 550MB, is this a 20gb patch? kitten outta here

i stopped the download , was at 230Mb and just kept on the 1%
looks like something went wrong ( 20GB for a patch doesn’t seem wright:D)
will try again tomorrow , maybe it will be better then( and hopefully not 20GB )

still waiting for the news about the coming update…..

Why don’t we get the notes about the update before the release of the update ?
Is it that hard to post notes lets say 2 days before doing the update. not 1 day after
i have almost no idea what will change in the update , only thing i found on the forum is something about guesting. and some rumors about it being a huge update from players.

i like to know what you are gone update before you update it. not after you already made the changes. and i’m not the only 1 that thinks this way.

hope you will consider this for future updates.

cheerz Jim

Red Falcon.8257:

This is basically the Unicorn build that has been around since BWEs or so.
The major issue is that the build is weak to AoE and condition removal.

yeah those are the 2 weaknesses of this build

tho with “shadowstep” instead of “roll of ini” , i have enough condition removals, for it not to be a problem anymore in 8vs8 spvp

the aoe’s are a danger for all close combat characters i guess , a necros with ground target aoe’s is only real danger i have come across , cause they can put out a lot of conditions non stop with there unblockable ground aoe’s, still they are manageable

use of caltrops = important in this build , its a good source of your dps and its your answer to all those ground aoe characters like ele / necros/ guards ( they tend to stay in there own aoe’s , not noticing your aoe on the same spot )

silvershadez.8421:

I’m actually surprised people seem to not know about this. I was using a similar build since launch and destroyed groups of enemies with it within WvW, while being untouchable in sPvP for most scenarios. There was just nothing else the enemy could have done but turning the other way and take a run. I’m certainly not bragging here, I’m just pointing out that design issue to give thief that much evasive resources.

I think thief is the onliest class, that can tank/kite all those mobs in CoF path 2 (where magg places his bomb) from 0 to 100%.

Seems like most people can’t look beyond that glasscannon or P/D image the thief has right now.

stealth is easier to play it safe i guess

!!!!!!!!!!!!!UPDATED the build in main post , added suggestions from people + improvements

sanguin.8573:

what servers are pvp im eu?

seafarer’s rest has good amount of pvp’ers , both wvw and spvp

butch.8136:

^Desolation is the place to be on EU.

been full server a while now

maybe best to say top 3 servers

Skybreaker.3264:

I rather you do 3 rotation of LDB and stealth, letting the opponent bleed out. If they cleanse, you can wait for your init to regain and do it all over again or just find another target.

Much more survivability since you clear any conds on you when u stealth.

:D yeah a stealth build p/d is stronger , till they nerf stealth ( c&d) to the ground.

made this build to show thiefs can be hard to deal with without the use of stealth

i pretty much got perma dodge. ini regen is enough to keep DB’ing the target.
dodge = time to regen ini

i’m now even using withdraw as a movement utilety to , i axualy never walk /run anymore , its all evade movements

Aupheus.9038:

ahh, i only saw the first page, like weapons, i see it all now, this might even work out for my lvl51 thief.

hope you like it
tho i recommend for pvp to use “shadowstep” instead of “roll of inni” for the 3 condition removals.

Aupheus.9038:

Sry Void, I’m abit slow on this, could you please do a full list of majore stats and what type of gear etc you use for this build?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYm6OXey5E9JFBvAvHfFthVXQ3DuGfrC;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkatWYsw+j5HA

( past / copy to look at the build)

think its been explained clearly in the topic
all this build does = evade / conditions / heal

only danger for this build is facing heavy conditioners , and ground aoe’s
needs a bit of skill to dodge the ground aoe’s while you doing the endless attackchain ( you do not want to do BD’s on the necro’s wells or any ground aoe

Bloodgruve.6038:

Cripple removal is covered in the dodge trait

I run the spec for PvE and I’m rarely waiting for Initiative or Endurance.

Blood~

Tried it out , and it did increase my dps a good part.
I did have a lot of trouble with the long cast time of the signet active heal .
Withdraw is an instant evade/heal, works better for me in pvp.
The +- 1 sec cast time on signet doesn’t look as much , but it gives them a good opening to burst you.
tho its how you prefer to play really , both look equally strong , 1 is a little more aggressive , while the other is a little more defensive

i love the fact that every key i hit , evades attacks ( makes it hard to controle the movement with withdrawbuild , had that a lot less with the signet build )

DB/ dodge/ heal / stun breaker / ( swap weapons = more or less dodge )

Bloodgruve.6038:

Have you tried a 0/20/0/20/30 build with Signet Use and Signet of Malice? If you’re using Withdraw on cooldown I would assume that the condition removal doesn’t help very often or you’re waiting for the ability to come back online. SoM could give you 6 initiative every 12 seconds. Would also drop the cooldown of Signet of Agility a bit for more condition removal if needed.

Blood~

hey there
think they are great suggestions , hadn’t thought about the signets much .
looks like a great way to increase the dps output even , tho sacrificing a bit of survivability .

gain :
- +2-3 more ini every 10 secs
- 5 stacks of might for 5 secs each 12 secs
- faster hps
- 10-15 % increased crit rate

loos :
- extra evade each 15 sec ( probably can be recuperated from en extra DB from the faster ini)
- chilled / cripple / immobilise removals ( from heal / dodges)
- loos 10% increased dps / poison from steal
- blinding powder at 25% life ( axualy a good lifesaver when its needed )

ty for the suggestion , will surely try it out looks really interesting.

Sylosi.6503:

deapee.7516:

The game is fun I’ll give it that, but most people don’t just play for fun…

Except it isn’t fun, at least not hotjoin sPvP, in fact I’d go as far to say hotjoin sPvP is the worst, least fun of that sort of PvP I’ve played in any MMO.

this made me laugh

in my eye’s :

1 ) games where made for having fun . the better you get at something the more fun you’ll have .

2) in order to play Spvp , build/ way you play is real important.
1001 builds can be made, doesn’t mean 1001 builds are good for pvp.
if you are getting totaled in pvp , then there’s a problem with your build/ way you play it ( or multiple targets jumped you)

3) i love the fact that evry1 is equal in gear ( in spvp/ tpvp ). Skill matters , and alot of regular mmorpg players are used to outgear the opponent , hence a lot of people have it hard in this kind of pvp
( newcomers can axualy beat some1 that has been here longer , and it makes them mad to see a rank 4 owned there rank 34, maybe thats a reason why high ranked players are leaving spvp and going for WvW, ( just to have the upperhand against newcommers )

its working like anet wants it to work. ( its more or less good timing to use it )
Ow on a side note you not allowed to use macros.. so no programming the timing without a good chance of getting banned.

anet has the 0 tolerance against macros users.

1 button press = 1 skill
1 button press = multiple skills in a row with macros = warning / ban

macros made with naga razer mouse and logitec gaming keyboards aren’t allowed
use at your own risk i would say. But don’t be surprised when a ban-wave comes and you are in it

Elthurien.8356:

What is a zerg in sPvP?

when the other team moves from capture point to capture point with +4 members.
( axualy easy to win against a full zerg team in spvp = just follow them from a distance and recapture when they move to the next capture point)

ZLE.8293:

So you don’t cure conditions,but outheal them?With lousy Withdraw every 15 seconds?
I am sorry,but you are dead meat!

yeah this builds weakness is conditioners. you’ll have to play realy carefull/ smart when facing them. ( the withdraw wont be able to outheal 7+stacks of bleed)
but dont underestimate the power of withdraw in this build

withdraw = evade / +4 k heal / +4 ini / +50endurance / +-10 sec vigor / cure movement conditions => EVRY 15 sec

only problem i’m having in games atm is the ground target Conditions ( burning from ele/ guard , and necro’s wells ( but its lesson1 in pvp , not to stay/cross in ground target aoe’s )

if there are to many conditioners focusing on you , you can swap roll of ini with shadowstep ( dont forget to dodge before using the return shadowstep , so the bleeds/ poisons are removed and not the cripples … )

but again if 3 people focus on you , wel its just normale they gone kill you eventualy ( again its not gone be easy for them , they cant put up any conditions if they keep missing you , only necro’s wells , mesmers clone numbers/ scatters , and some rangers can put up alot of damage if they catch you without endurace/cooldowns)

besides if i coud remove conditions constantly , this build woud be way to OP and woud get nerfed anyway , so see it as a sign of good sportmanship that you have a weakness for others to find out

brunohstein.9038:

It seems nice, but I don’t know if it is as efficient as a stealth based build.

I asked you because I have already tried a DB build and didn’t have much success in PvP. Maybe because I wasn’t dodging enough and trying to rely more on Signet of Malice and DB evade.

yeah
probably isn’t as efficient as a stealth based build in dps , but its a lot of fun.
and i have been able to bunker on capture points a lot better then i first thought possible with thief.
can last most 2vs1, even 3 vs 1’s ( depending classes and how good the players are )
even full zergs had there hands full in spvp

macey.8695:

Unicorn build does not seem to work very well for me in pvp anymore. Maybe too many people know how to counter it too easily. I’d like to see if you have a new take on it or something. And what combo you use.

I seem to just get cc’d and stomped when i use it now. Did they remove the invulnerablility from death blossom or something?

no idea what unicorn build is , but i asume its like this evade build.
no idea if they removed anything from death blossom
I notice that the ground conditions from necro are unblockable / unevadeble with DB making them put alot of conditions on you.
Same goes with mesmers ( they just have alot of hits going in with clones and the scatters are hard to evade fully)

i’l explain combo’s below

ZLE.8293:

With what do you remove burning,bleeds and poison?

you use your low cooldown health evrytime its up ( takes care of most bleeds / potions)
and the insane amount of dodge/ evade makes it you do not take alot of hits

tho if by chance there are a lot of conditioners you can change
roll of ini <=> shadowstep ( tho the 6 ini from roll of ini makes it a lot easier to continue the evade DB/dodge chain in the long run )

brunohstein.9038:

A video of your gameplay would be nice.

i’ll try my best to record 1 for ya ( havent stepped into the recording part of the game yet but we’re getting there its my first build i posted since it was a thief build i like playing alot and it has no stealth , but coud be there is already a build like this out there somewhere )

i’ll explain my combo’s abit and the play style in words

- run to target , if target looks funny at you => dodge to him
( do not wast any ini getting to your target ( so no HS to target ) )
- the main chain is a 2 button rotate , with constant use of heal / steal/ roll of ini to keep up the ini cost of DB ( the time u spend dodging = alot of your ini regen for DB )

DB / Dodge / DB / Dodge / DB /Dodge / heal ….
…./ Dodge / DB / dodge /steal / DB/ Dodge / weapon switch ….
…./ dodge /DB / dodge / roll of ini ….
…./ DB / dodge / DB / Dodge / Heal….
…./ DB …………………………………….
you get what i’m saying

useful hints i found :

- try not to use 2 DB’s after each other unless its on non moving target like guards ( makes it hard to control the movements when target is moving around ( alot of misses/ wasted ini then )

- Use Dodge to reposition yourself inbetween DB’s ( you got loads of dodge , use it for movement instead of walking to target )

- USE CALTROPS when you can ( this is where they get a good chance at hitting you when you cast this , but when cast its your kingdom arena , so be carefull when casting it with enemt’s around )

- USE HEAL skill when its up ( it give vigor / 50% endurance/ 4 ini/ +- 4k life , evry 15 sec )

- when your edurance is out , DO NOT FORGET you forgot to switch weapons or heal..
Endurance shoud almost never be out with the 15 sec heal / 10 sec ws /traits

- when your Ini is out , check if your : heal is up / steal is up / roll of ini is up / if you cant dodge ( and you shoud be able to dodge more or less constantly)

good balance between dodging enough time to let ini regen for DB

hope this clears abit up how to play the build

this is my fun Spvp build ( NO STEALTH used )

you can manage to get more or less constant dodge / evade with it
( runes / sigil / traits ) make it possible
and unload a kitten of bleed aoe damage with endless initiatief
and see people go mad trying to get a hold on you ( while they can still see you , not like those endless stealth builds out there )

DD/DD : sigil of energy’s = must
runes : runes of the adventure = must
traits : 5/0/5/30/30

SKILLS chain : DB-dodge-DB-dodge-DB-dodge-withdraw-dodge-DB-dodge-DB-switch weapon – dodge-DB -……………….repeat
use caltrops with care its a pointholder skill for thiefs ( and also your longest cast skill )

its hard at first to master the attack chains ( seeing the directions aren’t always gone be the once you wanted )
but with a little practice you can beat most 2 vs 1 that come your way
( only ground target necro’s / ele’s with 20+ in water trait/ are dangerous to you thats pretty much it )

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAoY4YlYm6OXey5E9JFBvAvHfFthVXQ3DuGfrC;TwAgyCuo0yolQLrWOtkatWYsw+j5HA

hmm cant seem to get link to work properly
it works when i past it into the address bar tho

UPDATE: !

-whats better after more experience …

• switch roll of ini for => shadowstep ( when condition removals are needed)

-suggestions made :
withdraw or sigil of malice :

• withdraw (heal) eatch 15 sec = instant evade/ movementskill/ immobilize conditon removals/ 4k heals / vigor/ +4 ini / +50% endurance
  ( best for evading )

0/20/0/20/30

• signet of malice ( long cast time/ shorter cooldown / passive heal )= 4k+ heal / vigor/ 5 stacks of might/ +4 ini / +50% endurance
  ( increases attack at cost of evading more )

allot more room for suggestions on how to improve the bunker build , so lets keep them comming

hope you guys like it

Dual.8953:

Thief’s weapon skills are designed with specific purposes and most of them don’t combo well. A D/D won’t go 2345 because Heart Seeker is a direct damage skill, death bloosom is a condition damage skill, dancing dagger is a low damage AoE cripple and CnD is a moderate damage on hit stealth. They also barely have enough iniative to do that combo once. If you look at some other thief sets, such as Sword/Dagger, users actually use thier auto attack as thier sole source of dps.
Other classes can find rotations with their weapon sets because the cooldown system lends itself well to rotation and their weapon sets are designed with rotations in mind.

Thieves on the other hand are on a resource system and have to choose what will give them the most value for the least cost. So railroading them into forced rotation won’t work at all. Especially considering some skills costing a 3rd to a half of their resources

ty for the constructive answer

i think alot of people misunderstand what i mean with the recharge that cancels on using another skill then before.

idea is use “2” , “4”, “2”,“4” , or any combo of skills without recharge
or spam 1 skill with real small recharge
“2” , ( 2sec recharge ) , “2” ( 2 sec recharge) , “2”….

i think there are plenty of weapon sets that could use a combo of 2 skills with the same initiatief regen thief builds have now ( you can have 7-8 ini regen / 10 secs easily realy without having to do to many troubles in the trait trees)

evilapprentice.6379:

There is no “Fix” possible, or even needed. Thieves were designed with 1 or (if they’re really lucky 2) “Damage” abilities per weapon set. That is how thieves do damage – they don’t have other options besides auto-attack. ANet is not completely redesigning thieves. GET OVER IT.

i appreciate your meaning.
but plz only constructive posts in here , i dont want it to turn out into a flame topic.
and in my eye’s more or less most weapon sets have 3 or more high dps ability’s on thiefs , maybe 1 or so is weaker cause its a defensief weapon set.

Jonny.9370:

Spamming high damage abilities to put out as much DPS as possible is pretty much exactly what the class was designed around, which is why they use initiative with no CDs while everyone else deals with cooldowns. Only issue I see with it is I believe the initiative system was designed to make Thieves severely handicapped in protracted fights against other classes(like say, a battle of attrition with a necro), but since most fights with glass cannon classes only last at most 5-10 seconds anyway, this doesn’t affect the profession at all.

Oh, and Deniara, Backstab doesn’t require a thief to be behind the target, but using it without being behind the target makes it hit just as strong as the final attack in the autoattack chain. In other words, you might as well spam #1 if u dont stand behind your target for the double damage backstab. Also, C&D doesn’t give you invulnerability so I have no idea where you got that from. Those 2 things made me question your credibility.

helle there

I agree that the class is designed around spamming high damage abilities in short time " burst" ( abilities , not 1 ability )
But atm the problem the class has is that it can spam 1 button strings in to many scenarios.
Making it a rather unfairly rewarding character.

adding the small recharge on a skill that is canceled when using another skill makes it a min of 2 buttons needed to spam burst

Deniara Devious.3948:

The fact is: thieves can spam most of those skills almost endlessly or at least while the combat still lasts. Plus have the easiest way to get out of trouble while being essentially invisible.

Any decently designed thief build has ways to make initiative regeneration faster. First which comes to my mind is infiltrator’s signet. Thieves have numerous traits, which either refund initiative or refill it e.g. quick recovery, quick pockets, kleptomaniac, initial strike, infusion of shadow, patience, opportunist and signet use. As a thief player I find it very rare to see my initiative run out.

Since the dual dagger thief build seems to be the most common, I will analyze it’s basic game play a bit:
1. Get close to your target
2. Use dagger skill #5, cloak & dagger, which applies stealth, invulnerability and does nice damage <- too goo to be true, because it only costs 4 initiative when used with the infusion of shadow trait
3. Wait few seconds and enjoy your invisibility if you want
4. Make sure you are close to your target still and use dagger skill #1, BackStab. For some strange reason backstab doesn’t require the thief to be positioned behind the target. You just need to be invisible, making it super easy to use. BS does more damage than any other fast repeatable skill in the game. It does more damage than a ballista hit in WvWvW! How can one tiny dagger hurt more than a ballista?!?
5. Now you can either put yourself in stealth again by repeating steps #1 to #4 or if the target tries to get away from you, you can just spam dagger skill #2, heartseeker, which which speed buff e.g. signet of shadows, pretty much instantly teleports to your target and does massive damage as well. Heartseeker has low 3 initiative cost, making it pretty much spammable.

So basically it is spamming buttons #5, #1, #2, usually in that order or #5, #1, #5, #1… not much skill required. :-)

Suggestions how to fix the thief class:
1. Reduce the damage from backstab and heartseeker. Let them still do significant damage, don’t make them useless. Maybe some of their damage could be slowly affecting bleed instead of instant direct damage. In fact bleed damage would fit the skill names very well
2. Increase the initiative cost of heartseeker to 4 (still pretty much spammable) and make its leap animation twice as slow, now it teleports to its target way too fast and easy.
3. Stealth can remain, but during stealth the movement speed should be halved. Now it makes no sense that thieves can have superb mobility (signet of shadows) and being able to remain in stealth roughly half of the time. Existing traits, like fleet shadow, could be used to counter the reduced speed while in stealth. This change to stealth behavior should apply to ALL character classes, so mesmers, engineers etc. who are using stealth should also get reduced movement speed. Also if being subject to any damage or initiating any attack skill should instantly lead to loss of stealth.

These changes would not break the thief class, but would greatly reduce the annoyance factor and countless of forum threads about thieves being “overpowered”. The reduced movement speed while in stealth wouldn’t have that much impact in pve as most of the time is spent fighting against the mobs or pretty much stationary bosses.

Deniara Devious <- that character is actually a thief, but not my main as I find playing thieves a bit boring

Took a while but i read it all oef

I agree that its more or less a little to easy for thiefs to get a good initiatief regen
Tho nerfing dps on skills is something that’s sure to unbalance other things again

with my idea the thief has to make combo’s of skills to be able to spam them ( if he doesn’t the skill gets a 3 sec cooldown on the skill ( max 5 for like c&d))

This should make it a lot harder to keep up the endless supply of initiatief / or stealth .
Not touching any dps on the skills , just the way people need to play with them. Removing the 1 button spam , thief class promotes.

i play a lot of classes in pvp , (tryed them all out once even just to get an idea on what evry class coud do)
i got a realy good idea on how thief / mesmer / necro classes work.
started of as a thief , but didn’t like the spamming really when playing it even.
necros are challenging but rewarding , and mesmer are just plain fun to play ( i like making chaos )

ty for the constructive reply
glad to see i’m not alone that played thief and found it to rewarding.

hello evry1.
I’ve been seeing around the clock complains about spamming same skill on thiefs ( except thiefs themselves ofc … )

so what are the biggest problems on thief class , that the community has brought to light.

- HS spam
- DB spam
- Constant stealth with c&d

Here is the Easiest fix you’ll ever see ’ to fix thiefs spam without breaking the class.

- Put a 3-4 sec recharge on 2/3/4/5 skills of thief ( that is removed once you use another skill)

It would work a little like this :

thief uses HS => HS gets a 3 sec recharge => thief uses C&d => C&d gets a 3 sec recharge and ( leftover recharge on HS is removed ) = > thief can use HS again ….

this way its NOT possible for thief to use same skill twice after each other. ( spamming )
( but can still spam all his initiatief with a combo of skills )

evry1 that likes this idea plz do “+1” reply

evry1 that doesn’t like this idea , plz reply why ( and if you play thief or not )
( no flaming plz, just constructive reply’s / idea’s plz)

i Hope if we get a lot of “+1’s” , Devs will take a look at the idea ( and once and fore all fix thief’s spam issues )

kind regards
Jim

- ele’s got 4 weapon swaps already

- if you want to swap weapons , then they should put a 35 sec recharge on attunment swapping
( your chose , fast attunement swapping or second weapon swap? you cant have both or it unbalances an already on the edge of OP character in pvp)

- i could live with the out of combat switch in pve ( definitely Not in pvp )

Darkseptix.3187:

Same here in Belgium ( server down ??) pffff

same

had it once before , got fixed by the magic wand pretty fast last time.
fingers crossed i guess .

same here , tho i had this error once before and it got fixed fast .
fingers crossed its fixed fast this time to

tryllehans.8352:

cant login either same error as mentioned here

same here , got this once before , last time i had the error it was fixed fast .
fingers crossed its fixed fast this time to

hi everyone its kinda clear that forum topics on pvp are all about people QQ about OP class ability’s

atm it looks like devs are getting there heads blown up with non stop complains
( and to make it worse most of the complains aren’t needed )

hence i suggest that before devs change something they do a poll ( yes / no )
just to see how many people axualy think its a good/ bad idea.

I know there’s gone be a lot of false negative answers on it from kids , hence maybe ask top pvp’ers or other people that are considered trustworthy players (that want to help the game and not there char ) to do a separate poll , so you can compare it

it isnt gone be as easy as it sounds i know that , but i realy think its the only way for devs to get a clear picture of what the community more or less has real troubles with.

its just an idea ( and I’ve seen it being used on other games a lot to get an insight on the community reactions before axualy changing something )

hope this Poll idea can count on peoples support ( and if not its not mend to be a flame topic … so plz dont overreact )

kind regards
Jim( aka Tripp)

Ohoni.6057:

Coud i make a suggestion of considering putting a vote system on the forum that lets the community vote if something needs a change ?

A voting system wouldn’t provide very useful data. For example, if only 1/8th of players play any given class, then wouldn’t a call to nerf just about any trait of another class that people tended to fin annoying result in more than 50% of the people saying “sure?”

in that case you could ask the top x pvp teams to do an exclusive vote
so that they can compare it with the general public.( get out those false negatives)

in cases of 60% for Nerf and 40% against it , that would show that they do not need to Nerf it seeing a huge part of the public finds it ok.

if 80 % says nerf and 20 % is against it , then its sad but probably true that the class is to strong and needs adjusting( or will need adjusting in the future )

But they need to find a way to get a better understanding of what the community really wants to see changed in pvp . ( vote is 1 kind of solution)
Instead of only seeing QQ topics on forums and assuming a huge part of the public finds it a problem

just trying to trow the idea to the devs , maybe they can brainstorm around it a bit or something.

Shukran.4851:

Void.4239:

Shukran.4851:

Void.4239:

Shukran.4851:

Esplen.3940:

Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.

They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.

Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?

thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.

random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?

mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet )

and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )

woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.

yeah with trait cdr. am i assuming every bs build works with 15 trickery? no

am i assuming thiefs arent able to put 30 into trickery ?no
Sure your combo will do alittle less damage but on faster recharge

am i assuming mesmers arent able to put 0 points in illusions ? no

so you axualy saying thiefs cant steal with 30 trickery trait?
and mesmers can only use scatters with 30 illusions trait ?

point is a thief and mesmer can get the same reduction on there class mechanics.
if they want to ofc.

just play for me a shatter mesmer with not 30 illu, please.

i used to have a mesmer that was GS 20/30/0/15/5, was awsom evade build.
without using scatter for main dps , i only used scatters for escapes/ finishing blows

and trust me i killed a lot of people with it to, and to mind wrack at the last bit of the fight (instead of the opener) looks hell scary to ( pretty sure some of my targets were angry to :P )

again its all up to the person what he wants and how he wants to play.

wintermute.4096:

Void.4239:

Coud i make a suggestion of considering putting a vote system on the forum that lets the community vote if something needs a change ?

While that does sound nice at first, pure direct democracy usually results in poor decisions, because propaganda and kneejerk reactions are not the best advisors.

Also, balancing in favor of the lowest common denominator is basically a surefire way to eliminate all serious competition in the upper tiers of spvp.

:D yeah probably a lot of work to figure out a system that works. tho never a bad idea to see how majority of the people feel about something ( yes /no answers).

Just as backup .
Maybe they could also ask the top x teams in tpvp to vote on 1 exclusive for them.
So they can compare if the results are close or not ( get out those false negatives), at least they get a clearer picture on how folks think about stuff instead of all the QQ topics from kids that overwhelm the forums.

(i assume the top pvp teams know the game pretty well and hopefully are mature enough to help get a healthier game )

really think its worth the trouble at the end.

Shukran.4851:

Void.4239:

Shukran.4851:

Esplen.3940:

Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.

They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.

Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?

thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.

random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?

mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet )

and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )

woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.

yeah with trait cdr. am i assuming every bs build works with 15 trickery? no

am i assuming thiefs arent able to put 30 into trickery ?no
Sure your combo will do alittle less damage but on faster recharge

am i assuming mesmers arent able to put 0 points in illusions ? no

so you axualy saying thiefs cant steal with 30 trickery trait?
and mesmers can only use scatters with 30 illusions trait ?

point is a thief and mesmer can get the same reduction on there class mechanics.
if they want to ofc.

JonPeters.5630:

This is not true, skills have a cast time and after cast based on the animation they use. To ease any thief worries we are not limiting back to back skill use on purpose. This is in fact the point of initiative and why thieves feel different than other professions.

Coud i make a suggestion of considering putting a vote system on the forum that lets the community vote if something needs a change ?

a 6 sec recharge on “cloak and dagger” skill woud be 1 of my suggestions.
its the only problem on thief class in my eye’s.

It woud give people 2 seconds of reacting to the thief popping out of stealth.
Just unables the thief to go wright back into stealth with same skill he just used before.
Doesnt unable him to use utility’s to pop back into stealth tho , just stops the unlimited stealth in a fight.
and it woud punish thiefs that miss there cloak and dagger

else the spamming of evrything is ok on thief i think ( just not for endless stealth ).

ty for your time
i hope you consider the voting on forum by the community to resolve problems

regards Jim

Shukran.4851:

Esplen.3940:

Mind Wrack IS on an 11 second cooldown.
Diversion is on about a 33 second cooldown.
Decoy is on a 32 second cooldown.
Mimic is on a 36 second cooldown.

They’re entire burst combo is technically on a 36 second cooldown, but they can use one part of it (namely, the nukey part) twice in between the combo. However, you can react to this one.

Random question of the day:
Did you know blinding a Mesmer will cause a summoned clone to miss unless they aa before casting?

thief combo is 45 seconds. however you can react to this one.

random question of the day:
did you know blinding a thief will cause a part of the combo to miss unless they aa before casting?

mesmer combo is at 45 sec to if you do not count the reduction of the traits
thief and mesmer both got same recharge 45sec – % from traits used
( if you do not know that the tooltip shows 45 sec but axualy is 36 recharge , then you probebly shoudnt be posting in here yet )

and all i’m saying is there more or less balanced in burst.
sure its an aoe effect for mesmer but it takes dubble the amount of time to pull it off and dubble the amount of skills neded to ( so dubble the amount of time to react on it to )

people seem to forget alot that clones are needed to scatter, putting up 3 clones alone takes alot longer then the full burst move of thief …..

woud be pointless char if they didnt do aoe damage while having to do twice as mutch work as thief.
( there’s still a reason why there always more thiefs in the publiek games then any other class , there just easier to play hit and run with )

DaliIndica.9041:

Shukran.4851:

DaliIndica.9041:

You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.

The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.

Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.

Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.

using your own words:
“You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever. "
thief can’t pull those numbers over and over because the combo use STEAL which has 45 secs cd + venom 45 sec cd.
“you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.”
an engi cannon class can shot a low armor char in few secs. ofc you don’t see so many of tem because it is a useless build. but doesnt mean it dont exist.

and calm down, nothing is fine in this pvp

Engi glass cannon is on par with a thief who has no traits and no runes. If that. Not even remotely comparable. Heartseeker has no cooldown, nor does backstab (both are much stronger than any engie attack ever).

Stop pretending that Thieves are ok, they are not. The intuitive system is flawed and allows for spamming of attacks.

Mesmers are OP, but its mainly a bug that will be fixed.

No other class is complained about more than the thief, and its the only class without Cooldowns. Get a clue……

*engi maybe has other builds that owns glass thiefs , making engi balanced on another way. Havent played engi alot , but seen some engi realy destroying people in games to , so they probebly have a strong side to
Think its not ented for evry character to be build in the same way stats wise. hence different armors and classes

*on thiefs you dont need to be to drastic , only problem with them now is the infi stealth builds and i hope they fix it soon to.
shoudn’t be possible to be in stealth non stop while in combat , cause of c&d or blackpowder/hearthseeker combo

DaliIndica.9041:

Void.4239:

DaliIndica.9041:

Riiiiight, and for those that dont play Thief or Mesmer?

I hope this game goes burst crazy. Then we will see how much fun it is when every class is nuking the hell out of everything.

evry character can do these kind of hits more or less when in glasscanon and using a proper boost in damage before doing the main attack .

- warriors 100 blades
- guards greatersword combo’s
- necro has his F1 to absorb the high burst and does rather high dps to
- havent played ranger yet but they probebly got a huge dps glasscanon spec to
- ele’s if they do not go survivability can do 5k+ hits
- engi’s grenades do alot of aoe dps in glasscanon spec

tho a glasscanon spec wont be able to capture points against a high toughness servivabily spec, so glasscanon might do high dps on other low thoughness builds. but they probebly wont last long enough to win the fight ( defend / capture the points ) when facing a high toughness build.

again its all about how you play the character that makes the character strong
( sure some are easier to play then others , doesnt mean that other characters are weaker )

You have no idea what you are talking about whatsoever.

The very fact you even mention an engie is a joke.

Not to mention how thief can pull those numbers over and over again with no downtime…..you know what, the level of ignorance is so extreme I am not going to even bother.

Yeah yeah, your totally right. Everything is fine.

just pointed out that other characters have glasscanon specs to
didnt say it was smart to play them glasscanon ….