Guild Wars 2

Travlane.5948:

Walker.3056:

Travlane.5948:

Chicago Jack.5647:

Lol, if you play p/d, you’re bound to sit on a person for a long time – this is the reason why you don’t see p/d in high-level play. It’s not a burst spec. It’s a condition spec.

actually i am never invis more than a second at a time. and thats super high lvl play. duel if ud like to learn.

If you really think s/D thief is High level Tpvp and that a duel shows whos better or more experiented in a TPVP you really shouldnt discuss anymore.

What Chicago said is True, s/d isnt a burst spec, doesnt matter if you suas invi a lot or not and thais why it doesnt Help your tem in a Tpvp as much as a burst spec. A cond necro or engi Would Help the team much more than the s/d thief.

S/D is good buy for duels or wvw roaming. It lacks to much when talking team wise thats why nome of the TOP teams use it.

if u think s/d isnt burst setup then idk what to tell u. condis wont work with s/x …. simple as that. not really sure what u were even getting at here.

You totally right I miss spelled it everytime by p/D. Just swap every s/d for p/d
Sorry about the missunderstanding
Edited.

Travlane.5948:

Chicago Jack.5647:

Lol, if you play p/d, you’re bound to sit on a person for a long time – this is the reason why you don’t see p/d in high-level play. It’s not a burst spec. It’s a condition spec.

actually i am never invis more than a second at a time. and thats super high lvl play. duel if ud like to learn.

If you really think P/D thief is High level Tpvp and that a duel shows whos better or more experiented in a TPVP you really shouldnt discuss anymore.

What Chicago said is True, P/D isnt a burst spec, doesnt matter if you suas invi a lot or not and thais why it doesnt Help your tem in a Tpvp as much as a burst spec. A cond necro or engi Would Help the team much more than the P/D thief.

P/D is good for duels or wvw roaming. It lacks to much when talking team wise thats why nome of the TOP teams use it.

phaeris.7604:

Why exactly are they getting buffs and thieves getting nerfed?

IMO its simple. when people starts playing a thief its really easy to to kill new/no exp players cause of invi and high burst. im not saying thief is easy to play/master, just saying a new player playing thief can kill other new player kinda easy. This changes when both are experienced players.

Most of the communit of gw2 arent very pvp experienced and when they go to wvw for exemple and get killed by thieves cause they dont know its mechanics and stuff like how to avoid the burst they complain and these people are A LOT so anet just hear them and nerf thieves

This happens since the launch of the game…

Ofc every thief gets mad/upset by nerfs butif anyone really wants to play thief… be prepaired for next and up comming nerfs that will prob keep comming

Dont give up though thieves are just to much fun to play

d/p + sb standard burst builds, some venom share are pretty useful depending your team comp, s/d if you love it.

Viking Jorun.5413:

DeckerDontPlay.1639:

This build is so bad. About as much AI dependance as a spirit ranger.

Which probably means it’s OP in tPvP, right?

Spirit ranger yes. this build.. nah a hambow warr will totaly obliterate every little thief near him, to much cleave in tpvp

Viking Jorun.5413:

Walker.3056:

wish.1027:

Kadin.2356:

wish.1027:

lulz, Valkyrie and Celestial

The “effective health” calculation you keep pointing at over and over does not take into account condition damage that completely bypasses toughness.

Who cares about EHP? Sure, Soldiers gives you more EHP, and you only lose like 200 HP compared to Valk, but thats not the point.

Soldiers gives more damage compared to Valk because you get to use more berserkers gear and precision is more valuable than critical hit damage. Thats why you use it.

Big Tower.5423:

ignore what wish says …. if you have 10 % less critical damage you’l actually do 10 % less damage due to hidden killer. provding you free guarneteerd crit.

Ignore me? How about we ignore the person who doesnt even understand the basic concept of “+10% critical hit damage does not give you +10% damage when you land a critical hit.”

All critical hit damage does is multiply your base damage by a percent. It’s +10% base damage when you land a critical hit, not +10% damage when you land a critical hit.

If your base damage is 100, and you have 100 critical hit damage, then your critical hit would be 250 damage.

Because critical hits adds 50% base damage naturally, so it would look like this:

BaseDamage * (BaseCriticalHitDamage + AddedCriticalHitDamage) = DamageWhenYouLandACrit

100 * (1.5 + 1) = 250

If you add 10% Critical hit damage to that….

100 * (1.5 + 1 + 0.1) = 260

You get 260.

260/250=1.04

By dividing we can see the percentage increase between the two numbers. And now we can clearly see this is only a 4% damage increase. It’s adding 10% of the base damage (100) not 10% of the critical hit damage (250) this is why adding 10% critical hit damage is not a 10% damage increase, ever. It’s simple math. Its easy to understand. I’ve typed it at you 15 times now. Please try to understand it and quit spreading misinformation.

^this.

Forget about Big Tower, its been ages since he keep saying things without any prove lol…
Hes either rally bad on math as wish just showed again… or just to proud to admit hes wrong from the beginning

So wait, is Soldiers better than Valk? O.o

serach for the thread “building a better D/D thief” and you will understand what we are talking about

More damage from crit hits?

RocSteady.9784:

Flumek.9043:

The negative feedback poeple give you is because you seem like a new player , who got the wrong 1st impression. Theres nothing wrong with it, as long as you are prepared to listen, be reasonable and accept the fact that you arent showing anything special in the videos……… ur pretty bad actualy, both of u

A small sidenote:
Poeple who ONLY duel, use the 3min elites once every third match… u get the idea probably

Edit: Your basically a phantsm mesmer, nuff said

Thanks Dr. (necro) Flumek on your professional observation, it give me great honor to hear your insightful advice and to especially point out the other person and I are , ”ur pretty bad actually, both of u ” Keep in mind, which I never said I was good nor bad In this forum discussion. What with the Wink? You got Sir VinceAlot doing it now. Which he make no sense what he saying about replacing shadow step with scorpion wire, replace this, replace that. Why would I replace anything since I already have it both and more. (wink) What do you mean ima Phantom Memser and then adding Nuff said? OwinkO Also the 3min cd duel every 3rd match thing, im confused, is there like a speed duelling event, like speed dating? I don’t need them all the time.

The thing is if you can kill players with that low damage without thieves guild theres only 2 options:
1- you are facing upleveled players

2- you are facing really bad/bot players…

You damage is to low without thieves guild and even with it its not that grt/can be easily avoided. This doesnt mean you will not be able to kill other players… there are a lot of bad player out there. I once killed bad players in wvw using only calltrops and caltrops on dodge with pistol off hand (no main hand) and a immobilize venom… <this doesnt mean that this spec is viable or good.

Thats only my opinion though

wish.1027:

Kadin.2356:

wish.1027:

lulz, Valkyrie and Celestial

The “effective health” calculation you keep pointing at over and over does not take into account condition damage that completely bypasses toughness.

Who cares about EHP? Sure, Soldiers gives you more EHP, and you only lose like 200 HP compared to Valk, but thats not the point.

Soldiers gives more damage compared to Valk because you get to use more berserkers gear and precision is more valuable than critical hit damage. Thats why you use it.

Big Tower.5423:

ignore what wish says …. if you have 10 % less critical damage you’l actually do 10 % less damage due to hidden killer. provding you free guarneteerd crit.

Ignore me? How about we ignore the person who doesnt even understand the basic concept of “+10% critical hit damage does not give you +10% damage when you land a critical hit.”

All critical hit damage does is multiply your base damage by a percent. It’s +10% base damage when you land a critical hit, not +10% damage when you land a critical hit.

If your base damage is 100, and you have 100 critical hit damage, then your critical hit would be 250 damage.

Because critical hits adds 50% base damage naturally, so it would look like this:

BaseDamage * (BaseCriticalHitDamage + AddedCriticalHitDamage) = DamageWhenYouLandACrit

100 * (1.5 + 1) = 250

If you add 10% Critical hit damage to that….

100 * (1.5 + 1 + 0.1) = 260

You get 260.

260/250=1.04

By dividing we can see the percentage increase between the two numbers. And now we can clearly see this is only a 4% damage increase. It’s adding 10% of the base damage (100) not 10% of the critical hit damage (250) this is why adding 10% critical hit damage is not a 10% damage increase, ever. It’s simple math. Its easy to understand. I’ve typed it at you 15 times now. Please try to understand it and quit spreading misinformation.

^this.

Forget about Big Tower, its been ages since he keep saying things without any prove lol…
Hes either rally bad on math as wish just showed again… or just to proud to admit hes wrong from the beginning

K U T M.4539:

How come nobody’s insulted his keyboard turning yet

That would be to nasty

1v1 oriented build with low burst, enough “burst” and “damage” to kill someone only can be achieved once in 3 minutes (thieves guild cd)… If that warr was a decent hambow you would prob lose really easy or you would get low on health and run away, as all thieves can do.

PS: i dont like 1v1 builds in wvw since most of time i dont fight 1v1 since im on a t1 server…. usually its 1vX… but thats just me

Jumper.9482:

Travlane.5948:

a wvw thief full zerk vs a wvw warrior full zerk…………

if both start auto attacking each other at same time warrior will win with about 50%of his HP left.

Like I’ve said before, The ratio of dmg:hp for thief is EXTREMELY low compared to Warrior (and other classes).
Consider FS>LS deals similar dps to autoattacks.
To win this, you literally have to dodge the majority of his autoattacks. Some people say ‘why are you spamming dodge randomly, noob?’ I’m not. I have to dodge at least half of your passive autoattacks to even have a chance at beating you.

So true……..

IMHO Anet created thief more than one year ago and still dont know what they expect the class to be/do thats why they make changes in a really bad way…

Reesha.7901:

Yeh. I don’t know.
Maybe it is just me failing to understand the thief mechanics. I would hate if I couldn’t use blink when stunned as well. I guess they work much the same then. I am sorry to bother you thieves with questions about this, but I figured the thief forum would be the best place to learn something. (That is why I watched Jumper’s video in the first place after all.)

Warriors are (to put it nicely) slightly over powered. So they are most likely not the class I would compare anything with.
Guardians are usually support specced, so their damage is not a threat like that of a thief.

How about any other dps class then?
It is my understanding (I might be mistaken), that while a S/D thief takes their health away, they (or their team) have a hard time counter pressuring the thief because of the evades.

I am currious. How would you implement a gap then, where the S/D thief can actually be pressured, but without this change to Infiltrator’s return? Or am I again missing something?

The other nerfs thieves are getting are enough to change that, initiative nerf (yes its a nerf) vigor nerf kittene for evades… and the buffs in other classes like mesmer, they are getting really nice buff and changes on traits that will for sure make them really strong, im not a very exp player with eles so i wont coment, about engi i think they are very strong right now and in team fights they can keep pressure on many target at same time really nice, but warr as you said its a on different level. They can specy with zerk amulet and yet stay really really had to drop with some nay blocks, damage mitigation stuff and their burst/stun are as strong as never

PS: sry about my english, its really bad too..

Reesha.7901:

Hi.
I am not sure I understand why a 1/4 second cast time on Infiltrator’s return will render the skill useless.
I understand it is a nerf, but useless?

Forgive me for asking, I am not a thief so I might have missed something completely here.
I asked a thief friend of mines, and he think it is not a problem (for S/D at least), because it is somewhat difficult to counter pressure them in the first place. If you can’t punish them when they are not evading or fail to dodge, then there is very little risk for a S/D to jump someone in the first place.

If anyone eats a full shatter combo or a skull crack followed by 100 blades, then they are in trouble as well. If anyone else gets stunned for 3 seconds and have loads of players attacking them, they are most likely dead as well. If anyone else uses a stun break, they don’t teleport away but are still right next to you and still vulnerable to attacks.

I mean no disrespect, but I honestly don’t understand why a short cast time brings the skill from being strong to be at: No point at ever using it again?
Is it not a very nice disengage to have still, if things are starting to look bad?
What am I missing here?

Cause as it is now if u get stunned u can return BUT u still stay stunned, u just return…
With cast time u WONT be able to return at all if disabled and thats gg a shatter combo on a guard/warr get them in a hard position? lol thats funny they dont even get to 60% hp depending on build but on thieves… its death or 10% hp left

To be what makes warr tough are their insane sustain cause of massive regen + invul + damage mitigation, the longer the fight lasts its more disadvantage to the thief class and a good warr can sustain a fight vs a thief for a lot of time and they know if a stun land and stun break is on cd its their win

Jrunyon.3012:

Interceptor.2653:

Walker.3056:

Hope u can have a stun break every 5-8 seconds or it wont matter plz share that build

If you need a stunbreak every 5-8 seconds, you might want to just roll another class or avoid Warriors entirely. You’re not supposed to be able to infinitely bail out of your mistakes.

Yet a warrior is allowed to infinitely bail out of their mistakes with high mobility and ridiculous damage soaking abilities, while still being able to dish out damage?

“Balance”

nah they dont need to bail, they have 1k+ HP regen passive

Interceptor.2653:

Walker.3056:

Hope u can have a stun break every 5-8 seconds or it wont matter plz share that build

If you need a stunbreak every 5-8 seconds, you might want to just roll another class or avoid Warriors entirely. You’re not supposed to be able to infinitely bail out of your mistakes.

I agree if you could after the changes upload some videos of fights using sword/x against lvl 50+ stun wars, would be grt to learn some tips

Interceptor.2653:

Jrunyon.3012:

We will all enjoy being demolished by warriors in the coming patch. It’s what Anet always wanted for us.

Uhh OK, have fun with that. The rest of us are just going to put a stun-breaker on our Utility bar.

Hope u can have a stun break every 5-8 seconds or it wont matter plz share that build

woutterr.5974:

no one has an opinion about how skill 2 changes will affect us?

So many posts about it already people are aready tired of discussing it cause we know anet wont hear reason

Travlane.5948:

Jumper.9482:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SgWmA2IIw0

This is an example of what I mean when you should have to play well to do well with S/D.
The point at which you dodge predict and bait each dodge from your opponent.
Don’t get me wrong, Folly is a great player. I just counterplayed his counterplays to near perfection in that instance baiting out every single one of his dodges.
This was when Beastmasters were considered near godmode 1v1.
Given, this was before the +1init and -1Boonsteal nerfs, but still..
At the moment you can get away with random 3 spam without even thinking about what your opponent is doing and reacting. What it should be more about is the above.
S/D does probably deserve more nerfs when played to this degree. But to kill it completely in this way is just sad.

all that fancy work…nice and all but in a 3 v 3 your are dead. u barely won that fight and this was BEFORE the LS nerf. if this ranger had a stun break might have been different. good play and you really have a good point. this video really exemplifies the fact that thief shouldnt be nerfed ever again in any fashion. we barely get by as is.

You forgot this fight was when BM rangers were like INVENCIBLE and i mean it, it was so kittenng op they are not the same now…

VladR.9827:

Peow peow.2189:

VladR.9827:

dunno why all cry about so called “nerf” – in few cases it is a boost – i am leveling 3rd thief atm to get him geared after the “nerf patch” … let the haters hate .. i think only true thieves will stay playing

Do you even patch notes

Yea, I do even patch notes….

Unless you are a condition thief, you will get nerfed hard after dec 10 patch thats a fact not a cry.

I used a build almost as your a while back in spvp, not very good 1v1, unless i have thieves guild out of cd to share the venons, but in team fights it just owns… imobilize to everyones attack is fuking awesome and i was using d/p not s/d.
Fun build no doubt

LOL you guys dont fight good rangers… a regen condition ranger wont die for a power thief in like 80% of the time, imo they just have to much armor, hp and regen and their cond can eat you alive if u underestimate it. When i roam with my regen ranger i never, and i mean it died in a 1v1 never… if i cant win i just need to scape and with my regen plus a leap of 6 seconds plus so many evades theres no way only 1 player will kill me

Viking Jorun.5413:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You suppose to get Trickery 10 not CS 10 and pick up Trickster when it becomes Adept.

Then you can add Roll for Initiatives on your build. It’s mandatory when using P/P.

:P

How so? With the upcoming initiative buff there won’t be a need for R4I, and in this meta the condition removal is far superior. I don’t see anything in Trickery 10 that would help this build or its purpose. Uncatchable, maybe, but if an enemy is so close that you have to cripple them to get away, you’re better off blind spamming them and taking them down.

LOL! at the Initiative buff, if you are ever going to use Unload than you will regen far less initiate with the next patch but if you are only AA for damage than you wont be nerfed but you build will have really really low if anyone wants to run from you they will and you wont be able to do anything to avoid that.

PS: the immobilize wont be enough to hold a target that wants to run from you.

Stx.4857:

If they go through with the IS/IR change, it will kill sword in PvP. Period.

So glad I made that Bolt…

LOL i know exactly what you are feeling… Love my sword in PvE and PvP and above that love my Bolt, dont want to use it only while running in LA xD

Cost.6917:

You are a DPS thief in a zerg fight in WvW. You see a brief moment – no heavy AoE, no retaliation up – and go in for some Cluster-spam.
This is the only case, where Opportunist was nerfed, imo. That’s sad, and I don’t really see a reason for it, but I can accept it.
.

Wrong. Any S/P build even in PvE or PvP got nerfed hard since PW hit like 7-9 times in less than 2 sec

Straegen.2938:

Shadow Step doesn’t break a stun but can be activated and move you away from incoming attacks. If they close the gap before the stun is up, you can activate Shadow Return.

Blinding Powder has a similar effect which is one reason I prefer it to Refuge. Something stuns you, you can still pop Blinding Powder which turns you invisible and frequently blinds the danger buying you time.

Wrong Shadowstep utility skill is a stun break.

Imagi.4561:

JonPeters.5630:

You can still avoid follow ups with this. 360 milliseconds is faster than almost any attack and certainly faster than almost all dangerous ones. The only loss here is using this while stunned and using it to teleport finish an opponent.

Would you be able to tell us how it was being used to teleport finish? I’ve played S/D since betas and I never used it this way, so clearly I was missing something.

Start Finish > Return (safe area) > Steal, Inf signet, shadowstep back to land the finisher

JonPeters.5630:

Sondergaard.8469:

JonPeters.5630:

Infiltrator’s Return
The thing I have heard the second most discussion regarding. This is a big change to this skill, but we beleive it is a necessary one. In many cases this is not going to matter. There are only 2 situations where this is a truly impactful change.
1) It stops you from using this skill while stunned, which puts more burden on Sword/Dagger thieves saving their stun breakers. This is the kind of gameplay we want to encourage because it puts more risk in using a rewarding skill like Infiltrator’s Strike.
2) Mostly in PvP, this skill can no longer be used by S/D thieves to teleport stomp someone. This is actually the more impactful moment as it occurs more often, but I think it puts the burden on these players to run a second weapon set that can help them in these situations (OH pistol for instance.)

No, no, no, and no. The reason I absolutely am 100% against this change is the entire thief class is built around the idea that abilities are instant with no cast time with no cooldown (on weapon skills), because they are the only class with a resource pool for their abilities. Make it cost more initiative or give a debuff that slows down initiative gain. Reduce the damage, change the range, etc etc… I don’t care about that. What bothers me is the adding a cast time to a class who’s core mechanic is all about no cooldowns and being able to quickly maneuver around.

I’m not sure what you mean by instant, but this is currently the only instant weapon ability. We are not adding a HUGE cast time to this skill. This skill is going to have a 360 millisecond cast time. ~1/3 of a second.

Jon

The problem is not being able to return when stunned, wich makes it kinda useless since it removes only one condition, removing the return (we still are stunned even after return) will be a killer cause we dont have stability (please dont tell me about DS) or protection and our dodges will be lowered soooo we wont be able to sustain agains heavy disable classes like Wars, Engi since we will prob have one stun break… Shadowstep, After that we will be free kill any stun = death

I would really like you guys to reconsider the sword #2 return change it will make pvp sword builds dead, we will be forced to go dagger if we want to be a little bit effective (high damage, high mobility compared with the new sword)

Thanks for the attention would like to hear why you all think its needed to nerf more the sword return when its the only skill that makes the sword weapon still alive

PS: English isnt my main language but i hope you can understand what i tried to say

Anet just cant think outside the box their logic is totally broken, they make changes trying to nerf one thing but they just dont get it how hard it can hit other areas of the class (areas that are already in a deep hole)

Maesk.8753:

bladie.5084:

Chicago Jack.5647:

There is NO differentiation between a bad S/D player and a good one. Hopefully these changes WILL introduce some type of differentiation between a good S/D player and a bad one. Hopefully the bad ones will have to peel more often, reducing dps pressure. There are reasons why upper-level players left the game, and S/D theefs are part of that reason.

I beg to differ. D/P thieves are probably the majority reason why people are leaving esp in wvwvw (where the majority of the kids are).

And the same can be said about D/P thieves as well. There are no difference between a good d/p and a bad d/p.

>There are no difference between a good d/p and a bad d/p.

Then how me, a dog, beat d/p thief with d/p in wvw?

Checkmate atheists.

I can Say the samething when I play S/D, how do i kill most of the thieves s/D if theres no difference?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Oghier.7419:

D/D didn’t get nerfed. Increasing base initiative gain by 33% is a pretty big deal.

It’s more than a big deal. It’s a MASSSSSSSSSIVE buff to all thief specs.

Dear Tyler Its not a buff since the opportunist trait nerf make up for any buff on the base regen, 5 sec CD is a killer to thief and will affect even pve. PW S/P weapons skill will be feel it as a MASSIVE NERF since its a flury of 9 attacks wich means every time u use it the way its now you will get 1 (or if u are luck even 2) initiative back (since cd is 1sec, doesnt matter if proc chance is only 30%) now with a 5 sec CD do you understand how much of a nerf it is? Even on S/P or P/P builds that arent much viable right now on both pvp and pve this will be a killer

Thanks for your attention hope you guys think better about changes not only to thief but to all classes

Dekk.3459:

I do not understand the term being used by Anet as shaving. I mean are you talking 5 o’clock shadow or ZZ Top beard shaving??? Im leaning to the latter with this proposed update. If youre going to ruin thieves damage avoidance then provide another way to make them melee viable * Please *

Please get your facts straight… Here is a quote:
“We did this by shaving a significant amount of initiative gain from these traits while simultaneously boosting the generic rate of initiative gain by 33%…

…Increased the base rate of initiative gain from .75/second to 1/second."
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dec-10th-Balance-Preview

This statement truly does explain to me how this game is getting more screwed up. That is only a 25% bump not 33%…

PS: Hard to Catch (Acrobatics XI) is subject to the same issues as other shadowstep/teleport skills and is next to useless. Sorry for the bad news.

Math isnt your strong point ahm? but the rest of you post is all right

Hype.8032:

You know you can go into melee range and spam clusterbomb right? The whole subject is pretty off topic though. Sword will be nerfed to the ground with this change.

If you do that in pvp environment you will be completely exposed and since we arent tanky thats not really good. And yes its off topic. Sword will suffer a hard hit =/

Leadfoot.9071:

Just my opinion and no offense intended but I have to agree with Chicago Jack – If you ever spend any time watching Caed stream you will see how effectively he uses SB. He uses it like 75% or more of the time and only switches to D/P to burst down vulnerable/out-of-position targets.

Not saying Caed was bad (hes very good and experienced) but thats why Lady nag nag was much more helpful to his team on the pax final and other games (he too carry a SB but he uses hes melee option more like 60-70% of the time) t=with this he cna keep much more pressure and help team much more than a thief that sits back pew pewing

Again not saying you shouldnt use SB i myself use S/D + SB but the main weapon for thief if you want to help you team to pressure (hats your job) are the melee sets cause if you want to stay more ranged there are other classes that can add that in a much better way than the thief

You win chicago, i am using now SB in fact im using 2 SB and i am winning 1v5 all the time!!! thanks so much for making me and everyone here understand why SB is soooo perfect. i will start my SB thief 5 man team now just hope after anet see us destroying everyone they dont nerf us more

Chicago Jack.5647:

Walker.3056:

Than you main melee weapon set you are totally doing it wrong.

No, you are wrong. L2P shortbow. There is no “main”. Especially with the trickery build.

Bad. If you are not using SB as i explained (teleport/evade/combo finisher/sometimes aoe cleave) and you just sit your kitten using it during all the fight you are doing it wrong. your team and your self would get much more benefit if they had another class or build helping them.

But maybe all the top ranked thieves or 1 year + experienced thieves out there that use SB as secondary weapon are just wrong whileyou are right using it as main weapon, thats totally helpful for your team #sarcasm

Chicago Jack.5647:

First, Caed never used perma stealth thief – they’re dumb and indicative of bad players. Secondly, Caed quit because the game is boring to him and because there isn’t any competitive play anymore due to crappy game balance – not because his build sucks. Hopefully this change will encourage some more team co-ordination, because the game needs more of it.

Everyone needs to quit crying and l2p shortbow.

SB is a weapon set that should be used for evade/teleport/combo finisher some rare times aoe cleave (supportive/situational), if you think its a weapon you should be using more than you main melee weapon set you are totally doing it wrong.

Doggie.3184:

Zacchary.6183:

Nike.2631:

evilapprentice.6379:

So, what do we do? We make a stink.

You will NEVER make more of a stink than thieves made for themselves from the perspective of seven other class communities.

Perma-stealth needed to die in fire.

Off-meta builds get some love with faster general initiative gain and a few scattered buffs to traits that have nothing to do with stealth-heavy builds. Thieve experience more risk from certain types of builds while still remaining hands down the class most capable of disengaging from any fight at will.

The endless refrain to people driven to the brink of hysteria by thieves’ bloody IMMORTALTY via stealth has been “learn to play”.

Learn to play.

People will always complain because in the end they have no desire to learn. They want their kills handed to them and so long as they want that they are going to be bad players.

If I was anet, I would make sure:

1.) At least one of my devs mained every profession.
2.) Those developers theorycraft the kitten out of those profession and give me reports on the condition of every stat, skill, profession exclusive and trait.
3.) Once a month, we collaborate about metas between professions and sand them down so that they don’t remain a meta.
4.) That the classes enjoyment is based on the playstyle instead effectiveness. This means that everything will be effective in everything more or less, depending on the class.
5.) That once the classes are close to how I like it, that they are not touched again until additions are made and the devs tell the screaming little kids THEMSELVES “We are not going to be doing anything to this profession until we add something to it. If you are having trouble with a profession, the best way to learn how to fight one is to either train with your friends in sPvP or roll one. Again this profession is good where it is.”

Because I would rather see something working right than just shut little kids up.

I wish developers would post some wvw and spvp videos of their Thief build ideas~ kinda like what League of Legends does with Champion spotlights. I’m very curious about how they play and how they want to and think they should play.

+1, yes plz ANET show us how thief is supposed to be played to be viable in both tpvp and wvw

Faux.1937:

boumz.9851:

Chicago Jack.5647:

Quit crying and l2p the actual thief class. Not this stupid d/p or s/d cheese in WvW or spvp respectively.

The tell that to all the “meta” builds for all the other classes, thief is a Hit and Run class, a evasions class.

There will always be the “Meta” build, STOP HATING we just lost some of our only meta builds while other classes gets to keep there builds.

Not only that They just destroyed a weapon (sword) it will become comple useless doesnt matter if it s/d or s/p

Maugetarr.6823:

Viking Jorun.5413:

For all intensive purposes, Braveheart was a warrior who fought because they killed his love. I don’t think we’ll ever be on his level.

The thief is our love! :P

And ANet is about to kill it.

Excalibur.9748:

Walker.3056:

Excalibur.9748:

Walker.3056:

Excalibur.9748:

My assumption is that shadow return will not be able to break CC with that 1/4 cast time so S/D is effectively dead in PvP.

With this both D/P and S/D will no longer be viable in tPvP so hopefully we can get some buffs to offset this.

D/P tpvp wont suffer to much since if you want it to be viable you are not going into SA trait line

Isn’t that just Caed who played glass D/P?

No thats any viable tpvp d/p build since if you go SA youfocus on invi to get many advantages and if you stay invi you cant cap or avoid others to cap wich will make your team suffer a lot for some selfish survival

IMHO ofc

So basically what you’re saying is D/P is still viable after these nerfs?

Last time I checked, D/P isn’t even viable anymore. Caed even quit and he is like the last thief to use this spec in tournaments.

Well d/p burst build will be less affected tha s/d and for now we only have those 2 choices thats what im saying

Excalibur.9748:

Walker.3056:

Excalibur.9748:

My assumption is that shadow return will not be able to break CC with that 1/4 cast time so S/D is effectively dead in PvP.

With this both D/P and S/D will no longer be viable in tPvP so hopefully we can get some buffs to offset this.

D/P tpvp wont suffer to much since if you want it to be viable you are not going into SA trait line

Isn’t that just Caed who played glass D/P?

No thats any viable tpvp d/p build since if you go SA youfocus on invi to get many advantages and if you stay invi you cant cap or avoid others to cap wich will make your team suffer a lot for some selfish survival

IMHO ofc

Excalibur.9748:

My assumption is that shadow return will not be able to break CC with that 1/4 cast time so S/D is effectively dead in PvP.

With this both D/P and S/D will no longer be viable in tPvP so hopefully we can get some buffs to offset this.

D/P tpvp wont suffer to much since if you want it to be viable you are not going into SA trait line

To much effort for aomething kinda useless

Karolis.4261:

Asomal.6453:

Fade.7658:

Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.

For a second, I thought they’d replace Last Refuge with Infusion of Shadow then I realised…
Good night sweet princess, I’ll be having fun on my other classes

I dont get it … It says u will get 2 initiative each time u enter stealth. Thats how it allways worked o,o. Wheres the change ?

Basically you cant chain HS over BP for perma stealth anymore

Frenk.5917:

Walker.3056:

this affect more pve builds though

Exactly what I was about to say Thieves in both SPVP and WvW used to rely more on infiltrator’s signet/quick recovery than on opportunist minor trait.

I have a question for you guys: 0.5 initiative is 0 or 1 initiative? I mean, now it’s 7.5 initiative every 10 seconds, but is that 7.5 a 7 or a 8?

Not really s/d evade thiefs suffer hard with opportunist cause they dont fight with time gated bursts, they fight with a stable non stop chain of attacks linked to evades so they will regen far less initiative and guess what… s/d evade is one of the two viable thief builds we have in tpvp with the current meta so we will have less build options fo tpvp too

We had 2 viable meta builds for tpvp S/D evade build and 10-30-0-0-30 d/p burst build…. d/p burst is the only one that wasnt hit so hard by the nerfs so from now on we will have only one viable tpvp build? Thats really bad instead of more builds they are taking away our options

I got a mesmer i like it but i love my thief so hard to take nerfs when i know i wont change mains…