(edited by Walker.3056)
What is this business of “a top thief”? This is quite kitteny to come into a forum and post “a top thief” as if everyone knows anything about this shadow. The ones that advertise themselves get torn down the fastest.
I bet I could nail down this “top thief” >:) What say you good sir? A duel, or multiple?
if you don’t know ningyou you have never played guild wars 2 pvp
thanks for the comment.
I’ve played GW2 PvP, and I don’t know him.
Its prob cause u play Spvp but you dont play it competitive like in a team that only do that or on the leagues thatteams played to get into PAX and stuff like that, if you even watched the games from the top teams going for PAX you would know him and know that hes awesome
I’ve also played tPvP.
Congratz? even my little brother can play tpvp if he wishes.. now competitive level as i said you probably didnt or tried just a little. w/e if you never hear of him its only your loss =/ good luck out there
No. Chose ethe one you think has the best appearance since noone of the racial skills are betther than thief skills when roaming, btw hounds of balt are way worst dps and doesnt have the interrupt skill that Thieves Guild has.
Valkyrie/solider Is WAAAY better than solider/zerker, two words; CRITICAL DAMAGE, same power but extra critical damage, critical damage is really imporant for your damage. screw toughness, your vitality cant match your toughness anywhy, which then means no use of adding even more toughness, try to do for example 1000 armor equals 10000 hp, screw defense thieves already survive as long as you got 15-18 k hp and some experince. Dont listen to incurafy.
Sry bro but unless Valk/sold has same crit damage as a sold/zerk set so you point is invalid, unless you try again and explain wich parts of each armor are you using each stats
What is this business of “a top thief”? This is quite kitteny to come into a forum and post “a top thief” as if everyone knows anything about this shadow. The ones that advertise themselves get torn down the fastest.
I bet I could nail down this “top thief” >:) What say you good sir? A duel, or multiple?
if you don’t know ningyou you have never played guild wars 2 pvp
thanks for the comment.
I’ve played GW2 PvP, and I don’t know him.
Its prob cause u play Spvp but you dont play it competitive like in a team that only do that or on the leagues thatteams played to get into PAX and stuff like that, if you even watched the games from the top teams going for PAX you would know him and know that hes awesome
Im going to make a Video Guide first.
So please have patience with me as this is still a Work in Progress.
Maybe you shouldnt make a thread about it until youve done everything else then?
As i said this guys has a gift
Does he have any videos of his gameplay in tpvp?
I dont know if he has it uploaded on some channel but ive seen him playing some matches as part of Car Crash [CC] (PAX winner) while Lady Nag Nag couldnt play and he just rocked
Its unbelievable ur capacity of creating so many useless threads that say always the same crap with nothing useful to show. Few people have that power be proud of it
These theorycrafting threads get really old where someone says, “Oooh, it’s broken, look at my maths!”
If it’s so broken why don’t you make this character and go dominate PvP completely, then post video(s), then maybe someone will believe you are right. But don’t worry, I won’t hold my breath waiting to see you ranked number one on the charts….
Maybe because it’s already being done? you do realize there are multiple s/d thiefs at the top of both solo and team queue ladders right now right?
And as far as videos go, did you happen to watch the MLG invitational? no? how about the PAX invitational? both had pretty good clips of s/d thiefs abusing evade spam. Go watch 1st map of the PAX tourney, there’s a point when caed tries to finish off CC’s thief down in front of keep and he just spams evade like 10 times in a row until his heal comes up.
That time Lady Nag Nag uses shortbow for evade. Much better than s/d on this point. as Caed could have done too with D/P/SB just need 15 points in trickery
MOST OP THIEF BUILD EVAAAR
looks like more supportive build since iit lacks damage.
If you enjoy this gameplay go for it!
Can’t stand the clicks!
+1 you will perform better without clicking
Only one thing plz explain this with Math
Why any decent team i mean any team close to pro DOESNT run 2 thieves or even 5 thieves cause they are so kittening OP
good luck killing any tough class only spamming evade
warrior regen build that heals more than thief shortbow AA is sure fair too
if you think thief are broken go and duel a good Necro as the one on this video or any other decent one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3o2fB_ADjc
The answer is easy, get ANY MELEE SPEC CLASS and go 1v1 with a THIEF MELEE without any of the 2 move, THIEF will always LOSE thats why it has mobility cause it CANT stay still as a fuking regen warrior for exemple, without evade/blinks thief = dead meat
If you want to know wich set has highest DPS (damage per second) so u can deal more damage on foes DAGGER has higher DPS than SWORD
Dagger AA chain is faster, say that sword AA is higher just because its Chain gives more damage is dumb since its much slower. In the end DPS is all that matters.
If you think wich one has a better AA to pvp not pve than Dagger is far ahead, against any decent player hitting the 3rd and most strong hit of sword AA will be really hard since its as i said before to slow.
I am not saying that dagger is a better weapon than sword, just comparing its AA.
If after all these posts you still dont believe or something just go to HotM build a dps thief for exemple time the kill of 20x golem with sword AA and time another 20 kill with dagger AA see the timers it doesnt lie. (you can do that in PvE too just chose a place with 2 or 3 vets of same type and do it, you will see dagger timer is faster)
(edited by Walker.3056)
Healing is a situation that DEMAND an interrupt and S/D cant provide that even having a daze machanic… sooo ________________________________
Complete that and be happy or not
just cant make you understand here, so many people already tried… lol
(edited by Walker.3056)
Yea never should try to daze a heal skill… so much waste of time…
Just make sure to evade his First stun since he will prob open with that after that u can blind or use shadowstep as u said and dont forget shadow return from shadowstep is a stun breaker too and is availale for another 10 sec +- soits like 2 stun breaks in one skill. I dont see these warrs as a counter to thieves but its not a bild you can face roll it everytime
As you said OP you can win a bunch of time and some you lose, maybe those time you got outplayed?
I dont play warr but the stun build brought them back to spvp competitive level and i think thats good.
I Will stop this cause when you cant admit you are wrong about such basic thing as CC… or worse think you are right means everyone Will Just Waste time here
D/P has CC, daze (from headshot) is considered to be hard CC whereas immobilize and cripple are soft CC.
Blind is another form of CC, but soft CC.
Either you’re making things up or you’re playing semantics. Daze is a disable, not CC. Daze is under “control effect” not “condition”. Cripple, Imobile, chill, fear are all CC — Daze is not.
CC =/= Condition…
CC skills = Crowd Control Effect skills …
loled
Yea the post is crap edited but i realized no matter how i try to explain some people just cant get it back to gw2
No other weapon set has access to this. Even if it cost all our Init, it’s still there, available for the Thief when needed. And using SR cost 2 Init, not 5. IF is used for CC not Condition Removal. (to use SR u need first 3 init IF… and any thief can trait to get cond removal on invi wich is by far much better and with it almost all wepon set are able to clear a cond)— thiefs NOT the ONLY profession that can CLEAR cond with just WEAPON SET
Whether it is good or crap doesn’t change the fact that it is available for S/D. You have no counter-argument here. (As i said the prob are with trait 15 trick and sig of agility, otehr classes like rager got even more than one vade skill on their weapon slots…)
What’s your point? The list I made is not for individual properties of the weapon set, but it is to be perceived as a whole. S/D #2 + #4 gives a Thief a powerful CC skills on demand.
(again u talk about S/D but the thing is almost any class/thief build has it on demand)
The fact is, Stealth is on demand. Again, no counter-argument here from you. (Again u use stealth on demand for S/D builds as an positive aspect from other thief builds but almost all thiefs can stealth on demand and many much easier than s/d thats the point)
Again, another sign of someone who doesn’t understand the weapon set. ( LOL just LOL on the daze aspect… omg… clueless)
Again, you have no idea what you’re talking about here. If you don’t know how this works, please stop responding. (LOL again this is so funny a blind as a stealth attack that must be from front to happen + reveal timer yea thats for sure awesome on demand)
About AA chain just TEST it please before saying things but maybe u are just to proud to admit when your wrong =/ doesnt really matter to me
…just to name the reasons I can think of from the top of my head. (try again plz)
A D/P set can have access to all those stuffs but the cripple, and on many of those aspects its much easier and better than a S/D set.
Really? So where’s your CC? Oh wait, you have none. What about Condition Removal? Shadow Return to get our of tight spot? Here’s an easy one: how about evade? Boon Strip? No?
CC?? PISTOL N4 LMAO
COND REMOVAL clear on stealth much easier/better on a D/P build jesus… learn the class not only one build.
Shdow return cant have it but we got shadowstep
EVADE? omg… again 15 Trick + sig of agility + offhand SB gg so many evades (again learn the class not a build.)
Boon Strip Bountyful thief Boon strip + vigor for everyone around (same as above)
The thing is i play thief.
D/P WvW S/D spvp thats and played on almost every build out there thats why i know what im talking and i know about the class mechanics and you for sure with your line of thoughts have only started playing thief as a S/D
The problem with S/D
The main problem with S/D is the whole weapon set. I preferred using this set over other sets for these very reasons:
- It has the highest auto-attack damage, albeit slow, it’s high.
- Shadow steps allows a lot of tactical mobility
- Condition removal
- Evade on demand
- Cripple on demand
- Stealth on demand
- Boon strip on demand
- Daze on demand
- Blind on demand
…just to name the reasons I can think of from the top of my head.
The key here is the “on demand” portion because it allows me to be very strategic and tactical in my fights. Those who complains about S/D are not complaining about spamming 33333333 — their complains are legitimate because an S/D user can, and will, pull off some crazy combination of what skills are available to them. With the addition of Steal and utility skills, S/D set has a lot of control in a fight.
The OP will make us believe that there’s nothing wrong with S/D in terms of damage, but that assessment is too narrow minded to actually address the issue. Damage only matters if those attack hits, but with S/D’s access to a lot of area control (i.e. shadow step, cripple) and damage prevention skills (i.e. blind, evade), the damage argument fails in this regards.
The problem with Anet
So now that we know what the main problem is, what is the solution? Nerf the weapon set to the ground until it’s no longer usable like what they did in GW1 to Smiter’s Boon?
That was the laziest solution in history and hopefully they don’t intend to repeat it.
So I’ve come to acknowledge that S/D has indeed have a problem, but nerfing the central skill of the weapon set will not only harm the set, but also everything else that is built around it (i.e. gear, sigil, runes).
The Thief community did not asked for “boon hate” skills, this was your idea Anet. So why do you continue to try and harm the Thief community by making knee jerk reactions to complaints? Why not use your “reiteration” skills that you’ve used in the past to make sure that you have exhausted all options that the changes you’ve chosen is completely justified?
Conclusion
The Thief profession is not like any other profession. It is unique in every ways and it needs to be fully comprehended before any changes needs to be made. The last effort to throw a bone at the Thief community by giving us “boon hate” only backfired and exploded on your face. What more do Anet need to finally come to realization that the Thief profession needs a special attention — meaning someone in Anet needs to play Thief full time. In the end, if they have not cared in the past, why would they care now?
Your use of the words on demand is just wrong here buddy…
-Condition removal ( u need to waste 5 initiative to remove 1 cond)
-Evade on demand ( IS evade is crap whats good on evades build is the 15 trait in Trickery + sig of agility, any thief build can use that)
-Cripple on demand (any off hand dagger thief or has it.)
-Stealth on demand (LOL CnD is stealth on demand? only if ur target is a dummy, for example d/p get stealth much easier depending on the build)
-Boon strip on demand ( 5 initiative 2 boons IF people cant dodge, Bountyfull thief trait or whatever its called is a much more reliable boon strip skill)
- Daze on demand (LMAO… the dazze from S/D comes from stealth CnD 6 init + a backstab… yea.. totaly on demand. pistol off hand much better.)
- Blind on demand (LMAO again… pistol off hand or d/p skill 3 come on you are not even trying to think here…)
-It has the highest auto-attack damage, albeit slow, it’s high. (Dagger AUTO attack chain got higher and faster DPS the only thing is thats single target, if u dont belive go and test it.)
…just to name the reasons I can think of from the top of my head. (try again plz)
A D/P set can have access to all those stuffs but the cripple, and on many of those aspects its much easier and better than a S/D set.
Your conclusion on the other hand great, ANet should really give us attention, think about any changes before doing it and not just listen to so many crys out there.
P/D helps nothing since its a condition set and % damage or power doesnt help.
P/P would get 20% more damage PLUS 250 POWER?? lmao u wouldnt even need to stay close range unload everything….
IMHO i htink those changes arent even close to balanace and would only brings more hate to the class
it was an example
another example..thief wins vs warriors in tournys
thief wins vs ele in tournys
vs necros
vs mesmers
vs guardians
vs some engis
vs some rangersagain this is just an example to show you guys there is no atual counter
Man all those pro tpvp players are so bad they should all hear ya and buil a 5man thief team they would win everything so ezzz
After todays patch my GW2 started to lag A LOT (not fps lag) i tought it might be my internet connection but the thing is… i lag only almost every where, WvW, spvp, and 70% of PvE maps. Some maps like FGS i have no lag at all the game runs perfectly.
So i was wondering can this be some side server issue or is it something related to me?
Thanks for the attention.
Tell ya what, how about thieves get a utility that gimps any other classes’ damage, utility or defense? Not everyone plays S/D or D/P. I play P/D and no stealth means no sneak attack (or any defenses gotten from the shadow arts line).
Giving an ability that causes reveal entirely negates a whole trait line for those that spec shadow arts.
Pistols have kitten for a #2 slot, and their idea of a boost for it for team play will be garbage.
I swear to god, the devs are clueless, and have no idea how to properly balance anything. If there was a monthly fee to play, I would’ve taken this off the hard drive 9 months ago.
Aoe dmg kills mesmer illusions and completely invalidated all of their illusion traits.
QQ mesmers useless.
And yet, I’m talking about thieves, in the thief forum, not Mesmers.
It was an example to show how what you said is ridiculous.
And yet stealth plays a much larger part of how a thief operates. Nearly every single spec incorporates it into how it plays.
There is maybe 1 or 2 build types that doesn’t rely on stealth. Mesmer illusions don’t play as an important role in that respect. While I don’t play one, I bet there are plenty of builds that don’t focus on illusions.
You want to a be a thief hater, fine. Go elsewhere and hate on thieves there.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL omg.
You have to be kidding me.
There isn’t a single mesmer build that doesn’t use illusions, a mesmer w/o illusions is literally nothing.
One of the most popular and and strong mesmers build are the Shatter builds, it can generate an insane amount of illusion and guess what they DO NOT need to stay alive for long cause the mesmer will blow them up asap to burst, interrupt, get invult, place conditions and thats why even inside an aoe they still work perfectly, so aoe cant negate a trait line.
Even on phantasm builds that focus on letting illusions up u can buff their HP to a very good amount, this can make them viable to small grp fights and AWESOME in 1v2 or 3. They can divide the foe attention wich usually leads them to death
Reveal on the other hand makes impossible for thief to get any thing out of a stealth trait line
They are giving other classes a reveal apply skill wich hits kitten stealth thieves and ALSO nerfing one of the only decent options for Non-stealth thieves! Way to go ANet!!
Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target.
Ok people want some counter to stealth i can get that but why…
We’re also looking at shaving the efficiency of Flanking Strike slightly, so that it now only removes 1 boon instead of 2.
Why are you guys nerfing the only really decent option of a non-stealth thief too?
Nailing hard both stealth thieves and non-stealth thieves this while other classes get only improvements… we got venomus auroa yey… and some pistol main hand that prob wont even be worth as always
For melee mobs, sword/pistol works great.
All you have to do is use #5 which creates an aoe blind field for 4 seconds and then attack with sword autoattack (which hits much harder than dagger auto).
Although using Shortbow clusterbomb at your feet is also good as well
Not true. If u run tests u will see that dagger AA out dps sword AA (not by much, but still dagger win) and thats what we would expect since dagger is a single target weapon and sword can cleave.
So can anyone clear me one thing?
The calculator say: Effective Health = (Health × Armor)/(Reference Armor)
Soooo…. that means that a build has a higher survivle the higher its EHP get because on the EHP calc it already uses armor wich include toughness (toughness use to give ur damage reduction) therefore the EHP already counts the DR on its calculation
Soooo…. The higher EHP means higher survible no matter whats ur DR on the calc show because it already used it to create the EHP
Is it right? or i dont undertand something? thanks for the help
Technically, the more toughness you have, the less damage you take.
EHP is just your total HP and determines how much damage you can take before you die, if you have no sustain.
If you have a lot of sustain, a lot of toughness is the best way to stay alive. Since you take less damage from attacks, your sustain is worth more. I’ll explain by over exaggerating.
Lets say you have either 10k hp with 0% damage reduction or 5k hp with 50% damage reduction.
Either one will give you the ability to take 10k damage, and both have an effective HP pool of 10,000. Now, lets say you regen 500 HP a second, and take 1000 damage a second.
The first set will drop to 9000, regen to 9500, drop to 8500, regen to 9000, etc, until it dies. The second set will drop to 4500, then regen to 5000, then drop to 4500, then regen to 5000, etc, and never die. This is what aarias thinks is happening when he compare our sets, but it isnt.It’s more like my set has 10k HP 30% damage redution, and regens 250hp/sec, and his set is 9k hp, 31% damage reduction and regens 200 hp/second.
Thanks
Soooo…. The higher EHP means higher survible no matter whats ur DR on the calc show because it already used it to create the EHP
Well yes, but EHP is a bit of a simplification. It’s really a figure that’s most appropriate when applied to Tank characters in PvE situations. Any calculations using it typically assume that vast amounts of direct healing are available, and even then it’s often misleading in many situations.
In PvP scenarios, there are so many other things to take into consideration that I’m really not even sure that just a raw EHP number means…well, anything. Damage profiles change from fight to fight, availability of healing changes from fight to fight, mechanics of damage application change from fight to fight…it’s really more complex than just, “I have this much EHP.”
I understand that u cant say my EHP is (number) cause of many variations during a fight.
The thing that i want to know is if i made a build with more EHP than other and they fight against the same variations the one with more EHP will i last longer? cause it uses both health and damage reduction
So can anyone clear me one thing?
The calculator say: Effective Health = (Health × Armor)/(Reference Armor)
Soooo…. that means that a build has a higher survivle the higher its EHP get because on the EHP calc it already uses armor wich include toughness (toughness use to give ur damage reduction) therefore the EHP already counts the DR on its calculation
Soooo…. The higher EHP means higher survible no matter whats ur DR on the calc show because it already used it to create the EHP
Is it right? or i dont undertand something? thanks for the help
This nerf was just to much even the Steal F1 ability now suck, if my target is just a little around a corner it does not work where the hell is thief mobility??? Not to say that sword main hand was like destroyed by this. Now its really only spam 3 with some dodges… guess going back for the d/p…
Hey guys i was just wondering if Anet has any plans of changing the 2-Team Tournament type of game like there were before 8 team T and stuff cause i think that way was much more fun to play instead of a one game roll.
I just would like to know if they said something about it and if changes are to come how afar are we from it
Thanks a lot for the attention and have a good one!
By zerk thief i think u are saying a thief that use Berserk amulet.
They are really good IF u know what u are and what u should be doing.
in Tpvp they are very strong BUT as u said not 3 in a team… just one is enough and ofc 90% of the thieves in tpvp have no idea what they are doing they just want to kill kill kill and thats what make them and the team fail.
Answaring again zerk thieves are not bad IF they know what they are doing and what they are supposed to do to help their team
Many people say Thief are OP and stuff other say they are weak as kitten. The truth is thieves are good but u really need to know what u are doing or u will get ur kitten kicked if ur opponent is a little experienced
As as i said before i think that 90% of thieves are bad they lose to experienced players and call the class weak on the other hand thieves can kill newbie players fast if they dont know what a thief can do and thats why those people call thief OP
If thief is perma stealth he’s not attacking you. If 10 guys can’t drop a thief when he does attack or use a trap you are terrible players.
L2P IMO.
This.
and that.
And those.
And all the above.
To be honest this Condition build spam build isnt bad.
The real problem is that when u are lvl 80 with his build optimized u will alone be able to 25 stack bleeds on foes and thats the max you can stack in one monster, so if anyone of ur grp play any bleeds ur dps or his wont be maximized
Thats why power builds or even venom share builds are prefered
Aside from that… u should use Roll for initiative so u can spam much more bleeds and shadow refuge this skill is Gold sometimes it will avoid a grp wipe when facing some dungeons or situations
I would say get the Shadows Embrace trait if u want survivability… its amazing
and as Sunflowers said u should really mix some knight or cavalier
You are a thief with ur traits the best way to stay alive is dodge and Oh boy u can dodge A LOT much better than some more vit cause u wont be able to sustain it
I know Dps isnt ur goal but u should have some way to deal damage to be of some help on fights since u will never be a guardian that can just bunk everything and heal/support others like they do
What im trying to say is trade some vit for Dps, Toughness is way more important when tanking and Use your dodges u have plenty of them
One more thing… i dont see how Shadow Trap can help a lot in PvE just go with Roll or Shadowstep or smoke screen for team play
Whatever dude im trying to help ya
just run tests on golem or anything or break it on paper to see that im right… if u still dont want to belive go ahead and play the game having fun is the most important thing
I quit wvw. It’s more damage than 10/30/30 because of the 10% increase when target has a condi.
10-30-30: +150 precision (much higher crit chance) , 15% more crit damage, +10% more damage when 6 or more initiative, 20% more damage target less than half health or 100% crit for backstab + Major Master rune of your choice
all of this ads much more dps than +150 powwer, 5% damage dagger and 10% when condition
Power thief needs crit/crit damage more than anything to have high dps
“Works out pretty good. It’s more damage than the 10/30/30 build.”
No it doesnt have for sure more dps than 10-30-30…. if u want dps u need 30 points in Crit Strikes much more than some extra power… 30 points in CS much higher dps that points in DA.
I was playing GW2 as always finished my AC path 3 run and i got an error saying something like my free trial Account time has expired and i got kicked out and cant log in….. WTH free trial???? its a deluxe account… anyone having same problem?
thanks for the attention hope to get fixed fast
I have the exactly same doubt as you hehe
And yes i agree i dont know if its me but i think that the Axe main hand is not reliable cause its damage skill is the bleed one and is u are in like half of ranger u will only hit with 1 max 2 stacks… not really a big deal i guess… would like to hear other people out too
1-What about the Sword/Dagger weapon set? is it only good on power builds?
If i run Apothecarys is it useful? or should i just stick with sword/torch?
2-Another thing… why people use A/D so much? i just think hat axe is really bad. Its auto attack is weak, the bleed only stacks 5 if u are real close to target otherwise will stack like 1-3 only, the only thing i really think its useful is the chill.
What are your toughts about it guys?
Thanks all those who helped
I got one more question.
Im in love with Sword/Dagger its just to much fun but it doesnt seen like a good set of weapon to roll when you focus on Condition because dagger 4n5 are not nearly as strong as torch 4n5 skills
So if i want to keep using S/D should i go Cleric or S/D does more damage with Apothecary? wich other weapon set would be good with it ? shortbow? Axe/-?
I dont really like axe cause i think its auto is weak and its bleed skill isnt reliable if u are a little far from target.
Thanks again for the help!
Hello everyone.
I was wondering if you guys could show me your thoughts about both types of gear Apothecary’s and Cleric’s. Wich one do you think its better for a Ranger when you want to PvE or sPvP or make solo/small groups WvW.
All that considering a BM build for the Ranger.
Thanks a lot for the help and opnion.
Sorry about my bad english xD
Cya all have a good one
Spec and Gear is in the Youtube page. This is my 4th class to WvW on, the other 3 being Ele/Mesmer/Thief.
Edit: Exploits is my Rangers name
.
Ive been using a build that really looks like this for some time. i just changed the 10 traits from 4th line to second so my pet can deal a little more damage ^^
I was wondering usually i dont see rangers using Sick ’Em… now its only 40 sec CD and when u combo jaguar F2 + Sick ’Em its just soo much damage i love it.
what do u think about it?
Hope to cya in JQ ^^ great video.
Im having a problem like this.
When i open launcher i get an error: Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…
I was wondering…
like 2 weeks ago or something after the last big patch i am egtting some bad lags at FotM ( FotM only, doesnt happened before…) its not a FPS issue its just internet lag nad its wierd cause not even in WvW or any other place in the game that happens just FotM
so… anyone having the same problem? or something like this?
Thanks a lot and sry for my bad english ^^