Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

sephiroth.4217:

RoseofGilead.8907:

mashiara.3452:

I read someplace a long time ago , that named exotics would have a better chance , than for example a pearl whatever that is crafted.

That’s not true, as far as I know. A named exotic is still just an exotic.

Actually I read the same thing from a Dev 6-8 months ago, that some exotics have a slightly higher chance than others…

Yes. Level 80 exotics do have a better chance than the <80 ones. That’s the only factor.

Any source for that?

As far as i know, the only requirement on the weapons thrown in is that they have a combined level of 300, so 4 level 75 weapons will do, or 3 lvl 80 and a lvl 60 weapon.

As soon as you gain access to the mf loot tables (general or type specific) with the precursors on, it doesnt matter anymore, what you have thrown in or any other account or character detail like magic find, level, time of date, buffs, transformations etc.

Market is slow but steady. Just because you dont buy at this price, doesnt mean other dont.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Misguided.5139:

I don’t know how often Spidy updates, but I’d swear I see coins above 15 silver a couple of days ago. Could have just been a blip I suppose.

I flushed the toilet 22 times last night and only got clovers twice.

Spidy doesn’t update as often as gw2tp and it’s had some hiccups. So what you see on the TP, what gw2tp reports, and what spidy reports can be different. The main thing that spidy has is data from 2013, which I don’t have access to from other sources.

So, spidy might not be the best source for certain things, but it’s the only one that allows for an apples:apples comparison of historical prices. It was also the original source for the claim that there is a crisis, so it’s a good choice in terms of showing evidence to the contrary.

gw2tp has full history since aug 26th 2012 but it only loads the graph for the last 6 months by default.
If you want to see all data, click on “Full History” on top of the price chart.
The screenshot i posted earlier, had the full history loaded but i guess you didnt care to check.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

Oxidia.8103:

Long before daily rewards i remember coins dropping only from map completion and bl chests. The price was around 20 silvers.

Mystic Coins were never traded for 20 silvers. It went shortly up to 15s in Jan 2013 for a couple of weeks but thats it.

Regardless, Oxidia’s point remains: mystic coins are only just now becoming as expensive as they used to be.

If by “just now” you mean 3 month ago, then yes.

No, I meant “just now” as in this week.

• Peak sell offers for Mystic Coins (according to spidy) was 15.24s on 7 Jan 2013.
• 3 months ago, the peak (according to spidy) was 14.35s.
• This week, the price is reaching 14.87s.

So according to the data I’m looking at, Mystic Coin prices are still below their peak two and half years ago.

Plus, one could argue that in Jan 2013, 15 silver was hard for most players to come by (I remember saving up for Master Trait Books for my alts) while in Aug 2015, 15s is pocket change for most players. In most cases, the cost of Mystic Coins is currently a relatively small fraction of the forging cost of any particular weapon. In other words, while the current price of mystic coins is just under its historical peak, they are “less expensive” to acquire in terms of opportunity costs.

However, that’s a different discussion. My main point is that — according to gw2spidy (the source used by the OP) — the actual price of the coins remains below its peak (at least, while I was typing this).

17.83s 3 months ago.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Every single BL weapon skin is available on the TP, priced at 80-120g in the first few days and then ending up at 45-110g until it is no longer available for 1 ticket. How much it goes up afterward depends on a variety of factors.

Thus the ticket/scraps don’t “need” to be tradeable nor earnable directly in-game, since the only thing they can be used to purchase is already tradeable (and indirectly earnable).

just nitpicking here but i dont think that fused weapons were ever available for 1 bl ticket, some other sets as well i think.

Arahzor.1832:

Todays new deal(s) is only a 30% discount on the balthazar’s regalia outfit?

30% is the usual discount on outfits and other style items.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

You Hooo ANet! That 4000 gems from prepurchase is still there. Gimme something sweet. I wanna buy.

I bought 5k gems with gold during the last weeks, didnt spend anything yet.
But i am not really looking for anything specific going on sale either.

Rainbowsand.2438:

I see. That means the problem of oversaturation with higher rarities was inherent. The Diablo 3 legendary shower syndrome. They had to make ancient legendaries to have a legendary that isnt an immediate salvage scrap. The last game where rares were actually rare was D2 it seems. Or was it Titan Quest?

Which higher rarity items are oversaturated to a degree that they are less valuable than their lower rarity counterparts?

Just like other posters mentioned, there are plenty of other mats that have a decent value for the frequency of gathering.

The 3 blooming passifloras in SSC are limited to 1 harvest once per day per account, so while its definately good gold for 5 mins, you cant spam it.

Rainbowsand.2438:

Being a noob i havent been to Silverwastes. But you see, you were specifically farming while sPvP dumps it on you for doing the stuff you like to do for fun like most ppl do.

And it in no way invalidates the question of rarity curve being wicked with whites being rarer than blues being rarer than greens.

Nearly all white, blue and green items on the tp are traded for their salvage value, not their crafting value.
Even most of rare and exotic items are traded for salvage rather, rather than crafting value, with the exception of unique skins, collections items and some weapon types, who have a higher value (rare and exotic) than salvage value because they are used to forge precursors.

Edit: Most people assume that a rarity curve for value should exist, just like they think the value of kitten mats should be ascending and there should be value parity between mats of the same tiers.
While its natural to believe so, it isnt neccessary from an economic point of view.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Wanze.8410:

Whatever items they will promote during the anniversary sale was probybly proposed and approved weeks ago.

Whatever you post here, will not influence what we will be getting in the next 3 weeks.

I’ve got some bad news for you: “probably” is not a certainty. There’s no proof that Anet will not change their minds upon seeing a highly requested item.

How is that bad news for me?

MattressDrayke.9318:

Could celestial engine be used in dungeons or no?

Any class with any stat can be used in dungeons.

Whatever items they will promote during the anniversary sale was probybly proposed and approved weeks ago.

Whatever you post here, will not influence what we will be getting in the next 3 weeks.

Leo G.4501:

So the unidentified account bound dyes, are they just regular dyes? Special edition dyes? Can I get duplicates of dyes I already unlocked?

Sorry, never bought these packs so no idea. I’m a little low on good looking dyes but my past record with buying dye packs has left me with a sour taste in my mouth.

Once you open the account bound unidentified dyes, you get unbound regular dyes, which can be of fine, masterwork or rare rarity. They dont contain special edition dyes and you may get some that you already unlocked. However, you can sell those on the tp.

Etien.4601:

Wanze.8410:

Etien.4601:

RNG is RNG.
On the other hand tho we all remember that glorious patch that nerfed the forging. The only thing that is out place – forging lvl80 items which have the possibility to give you results below that level. Still even today me and my friends wonder why oh why this was implemented.
I myself forge at least 60+ rare or exo items lvl80 each day, and in the recent few months I’ve noticed that the below lvl80 output is higher than it used/it should be. Outrageous tbh. Ofc this is only my personal observation.

People used to do statistics about the rate of valuable drops. For science. I ask if someone could do something similar just to see how things are going today. I honestly believe there is something wrong. Because I run constantly with 270%+ magic find, farming different well known spots on a regular basis, and I see the drop of valuable items isn’t what it used to be a year ago. Thoughts?

The lvl 76-79 exotic weapons that got added to the mf drops were intended to add new faucets of salvageable inscriptions and sigils to the game.

I prefer those compared to a lvl 80 pearl weapon, which wont give you any sigil or inscription upon salvage.

This only widens the range, reducing the chance of getting better items. I prefer having a better % of having a precursor. You can keep your insignias and sigils. Am I rite?

Youre right, thats why the droprate for precursors and exotics with unique skins hasnt been nerfed with that change.

Get your gems ready. Thanks Evon.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/anniversary-sale/

Apart from the toxic behaviour, i guess Anet also didnt want new players to level their toons by only champ training through a low level zone.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

Oxidia.8103:

Long before daily rewards i remember coins dropping only from map completion and bl chests. The price was around 20 silvers.

Mystic Coins were never traded for 20 silvers. It went shortly up to 15s in Jan 2013 for a couple of weeks but thats it.

Regardless, Oxidia’s point remains: mystic coins are only just now becoming as expensive as they used to be.

If by “just now” you mean 3 month ago, then yes.

Etien.4601:

RNG is RNG.
On the other hand tho we all remember that glorious patch that nerfed the forging. The only thing that is out place – forging lvl80 items which have the possibility to give you results below that level. Still even today me and my friends wonder why oh why this was implemented.
I myself forge at least 60+ rare or exo items lvl80 each day, and in the recent few months I’ve noticed that the below lvl80 output is higher than it used/it should be. Outrageous tbh. Ofc this is only my personal observation.

People used to do statistics about the rate of valuable drops. For science. I ask if someone could do something similar just to see how things are going today. I honestly believe there is something wrong. Because I run constantly with 270%+ magic find, farming different well known spots on a regular basis, and I see the drop of valuable items isn’t what it used to be a year ago. Thoughts?

The lvl 76-79 exotic weapons that got added to the mf drops were intended to add new faucets of salvageable inscriptions and sigils to the game.

I prefer those compared to a lvl 80 pearl weapon, which wont give you any sigil or inscription upon salvage.

Vayne.8563:

Answers to your questions, even though I’m not Gaile.

1. No. Players will not get a chance to interact directly with devs. Considering there are hundreds of thousands of players, and not as many devs, that would be completely unworkable and unreaslistic. Forums are how you communicate with devs, unless you’re lucky enough to meet one at a con or something.

2. I don’t really understand the question. Forum moderators don’t generally communicate. Are you asking if the conflict between forum moderators and the playerbase is affected how devs communicate? I find that unlikely.

3. Gaile would have to answer that one herself.

4. There are enough negative posts that remain up for long periods of time to make this comment at the very least disingenuous. Posts are removed for many reasons, and disagreeing with Anet isn’t usually one of them. However, unconstructive posts or posts that are offensive in some way are sometimes removed yes.

5. This post, in my opinion, absolutely should be removed. It’s misleading, unnecessarily confrontational and just adding a line like this is combative. If I were a mod, I’d remove it immediately.

+1

Oxidia.8103:

Long before daily rewards i remember coins dropping only from map completion and bl chests. The price was around 20 silvers.

Mystic Coins were never traded for 20 silvers. It went shortly up to 15s in Jan 2013 for a couple of weeks but thats it.

Lame.3819:

I guess i should have put yet anther disclaimer for it being a Wall.. of… text…..
:)

+1

TL/DR: Use Vulcan instead of dx12

Edit: Why is this posted as a question thread anyways?

Zenguy.6421:

Correction: The sudden drop in price is obviously a natural market shift in response to change in underlying supply.

However, the ongoing practice of one buyer (identifiable by the the volume and pattern of their buy orders) blocking out competing buyers has resulted in articifally high margins in this market.

Of course, whether or not that sort of anticompetive behaviour is actually a problem in an MMO market is a question that only someone like John Smith can really answer.

The high margins are due to the willingness of the general player base to sell to the highest bid and to buy listings directly.

Your Mr X has nothing to do with, unless you can present a proper argument that profit margins would get smaller, once Mr X leaves the market.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Wanze.8410:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’ve noticed some T6 mats have nosed dived too. Totems for instance are down to 26silver each, or where when I was on earlier today. *That’s down 10 silver in a week. *

Besides being untrue (the lst time totems went over 35s was 4 weeks ago), its completely off topic.

Then I’m wrong about when it was. But I don’t see how it’s off topic, as the same thing could be happening with T6 mats. Or it just a trend of more people selling there stockpiles of items. And I don’t think it was the 1st time totems went over 36 silver, unless you’ve been keeping track since launch. With out proof, you are talking trash.

Proof:

BrotherBelial.3094:

I’ve noticed some T6 mats have nosed dived too. Totems for instance are down to 26silver each, or where when I was on earlier today. *That’s down 10 silver in a week. *

Besides being untrue (the lst time totems went over 35s was 4 weeks ago), its completely off topic.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

mtpelion.4562:

Wanze.8410:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Anti-competitive behavior would be doing something that prevents others from entering the market at all or results in a long-term manipulation of prices. Neither of these things can happen as long as unidentified dyes continue to drop and/or people throw dyes at Zommy to see what he gives back.

Dont forget crafting. It hasnt been profitable for the longest time but a couple of weeks back, I made a test run and I didnt lose any gold, while crafting color specific unidentified dyes. The profit wasnt great, considering you also have to pay karma but i think its the reason, why some prices stopped spiking.

I wouldnt try it now, though, as prices for dyes have dropped across the board.

I have a spreadsheet that checks unidentified dye crafting profitability which I use every day when I log in. The color that is profitable changes often, but there is usually almost always one that is profitable.

Shhhh!

The main thing is there isn’t much demand for spectrum-specific unidentified dyes, so the profitability lasts only a few days (or hours). There are a number of other niches that are consistently profitable in the same cyclic way and for the same reasons: the demand is low so folks can’t craft arbitrarily large amounts of the item(s) and still profit, which means the competition remains low.

What I, and I guess mtp, mean is to open crafted unidentified dyes and sell the dyes you get for a profit.
But youre right, sometimes its cheaper to buy an unidentified colored dye than crafting it yourself, thats what i did, anyways.

When the wardrobe changes went live, i made a spreadsheet to determine the real value of unidentified dyes, by calculating the average value of fine, masterwork and rare dyes. At that time, the real value was around 8-12s, while it was traded on the tp for 15-20s, iirc.

Its way easier to calculate for the crafted unidentified dyes, as their loot tables are significantly smaller.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Anti-competitive behavior would be doing something that prevents others from entering the market at all or results in a long-term manipulation of prices. Neither of these things can happen as long as unidentified dyes continue to drop and/or people throw dyes at Zommy to see what he gives back.

Dont forget crafting. It hasnt been profitable for the longest time but a couple of weeks back, I made a test run and I didnt lose any gold, while crafting color specific unidentified dyes. The profit wasnt great, considering you also have to pay karma but i think its the reason, why some prices stopped spiking.

I wouldnt try it now, though, as prices for dyes have dropped across the board.

And i also disagree with the term manipulation in this context, because it has quite a negative ring to it.
Granted, I use it myself as it is the commonly used term for these kind of actions.

But i would say the proper term would be market interaction, as you are using the trading post like it is intended.

Even though many people dislike flippers and investors because they think we generally raise prices for them and inflate the market, thats not true and flippers and investors actually play a vital role in maintaining a balanced economy.
Flippers close price spreads by upping bids and lowering lowest listings, investors counter price swings, by buying up items whose supply is greater than demand, so they stop prices from falling to vendor value and once demand becomes higher than supply, they help to counter price spikes, by adding additional supply from their stock that is already available and doesnt have to be farmed by the player base.

Zenguy.6421:

Wanze.8410:

The strategies of “market manipulation” that you described usually never work, unless there is a shift in general supply or demand from the player base, especially for items that are not limited in supply to begin with.

I’m glad you said “usually”, because the masterwork dye market is one example where manipulation has been working.

“How?” you ask.

The first part is simple: control the supply. You do this by constantly overbidding competitors using volumes that would take several days to fill. Do this often enough and, even with large potential margins, other traders can’t get enough supply to justify the time it takes to participate in this market.

The second part is breaking even. Once you control supply, the only place people can get the dye they want is on the Sell market, which pushes up the Sell price.

The third part is making a killing. With the first two in place this becomes easy: Buy orders drop off because the only ones that ever get filled are yours; and as they do you can lower your buy price thereby increasing your margin.

For extra profits, watch for dyes that drop off in supply in the Sell market and hold back selling the supply you’ve cornered of these until the undelying demand causes the Sell price to spike.

All this depends on the follwing factors:
1. Low elasticity of both supply and demand
2. Buyers who want quick trades and will pay full price or leave the market when they can’t get that
3. Sellers who want quick trades and will accept lower prices when they can’t get that
4. Low or no cost for placing and revoking Buy orders
5. Someone with the time resources and inclination to dominate the market in this way

The first four are exactly how the masterwork dye market behaves (which is why it’s such a good market to manipualte), and at least one person (identifiable by the size and pattern of their Buy orders) fulfills the last. (FYI, I estimate this person, who adjusts their Buy orders 3+ times a day, at any time has over 1200g invested in Buy orders for Masterwork dyes, and has been making several hundred g/day profit.)

This is why the masterwork dye market has maintained such high margins, despite its healthy turnover and attractiveness to flippers.

I think you greatly underestimate the velocity of a global market. Even if it only looks like you and another guy are mostly trading in a specific dye, the mayority sales is still done by consumers and players who sell a single dye.

I also disagree that the dye market has a low elasticity in supply and demand. Especially supply spikes at certain times, which is the main reason, dye prices arte so volatile.
Most of the masterwork dyes have a demand of a couple of hundred, which isnt much on a global scale. If supply gets increased (usually through gem store items and BL chests), buy orders drop quite quickly.

So in the end, you are just taking advantage of a volatile market and whatever strategy you are applying, has little influence.

If supply and demand was as unelastic as you say, it COULDNT work anyways.

Lets say a certain dye is being traded 100 times a day, 50 sold to buy orders and 50 through listings and 100 of these days get created every day.

Now you could block other players by constantly having a large quantity bid as the highest one for 10 days, earning yourself 500 dyes. But you wont block out competition completely, maybe 20 people overbid you with an order for one and got it filled, while you were asleep. Some might lose patience and buy directly, increasing sell listings value.

But once you start selling your stock, you are still in competition with other players, who got that dye from a bl chest or an UI dye, so out of a sudden, supply posted on the tp is larger than demand and the price falls. You will only be able to maybe sell half of your listings until you get undercut.

I dont doubt that the market you are working in is quite profitable and you can help accelerate price swings by various means, like large buy orders, withholding supply etc, but at the end of the day, wether you are active on that market or not, has very little influence on the price evolution, which mostly is determined by supply and demand swings triggered by the general player base, like gem store promotions or a surge of new accounts entering the market as consumers.

You also forget investors, who store their investments for a long time and at some point drop their supply on the market.

In the last 3 months, I bought up dyes for about 2.5k gold that i bought during times like these, when prices tanked. They are sitting in my bank and last time i checked, their value has risen to 6.5k gold.
Maybe i have a stack of a dye in there, that you were “manipulating” over the last couple of days or weeks and right when you decide to start selling your stock, i do the same.

And to get back to your initial questions: This is working as intended and is not anti competitive behaviour. Quite the opposite.

Zenguy.6421:

You will have noticed the sudden massive drop in prices for most Masterwork dyes.

Assuming this drop has been driven by a small group of people, it would appear to be a deliberate attempt to drive competitors like me out of the market by forcing losses on recently bought stocks of these dyes.

In commercial markets this sort of behavour is usually illegal. However I realise that the market of a MMO is a different sort of beast.

Is this the sort of market behaviour a problem for GW2?

Thanks

The recent massive drop in prices for identified dyes has come with the last gem store update and the new bundles, which include Unidentified Dyes (account bound but i guess once identified they are tradeable) and Black Lion Keys, so there are lots of dyes coming in from those BL chests also.

I dentified Dyes, especially fine and masterwork ones, have had big price spreads for a long time now, so they are attractive for flippers, so I wouldnt neccessarily agree with your assumption that your competition is just 1 guy or a coordinated group of people.

And even if it was, its not manipulation but how the market in GW2 works.
The competition makes you post higher bids and lower listings, which in good for the general player base because they can sell their dyes for a higher price directly and can buy it cheaper.

The strategies of “market manipulation” that you described usually never work, unless there is a shift in general supply or demand from the player base, especially for items that are not limited in supply to begin with.

The demand for dyes in general has seen a steady surge this year with all the new accounts being created after the 75% off sales earlier in the year and through HoT prepurchases.

Their supply usually spikes with changes to the gem store, like key sales, bundles that contain keys or dyes, special dye kit (like Shadow dyes), which also have 1-2 dozen regular dyes on their loot table, which usually drop hard. Abyss dye, for example, was part of the lions arch rebuild dye kit and dropped from 70 to 30g when it got reintroduced in July and now dropped from 70 to 40g when the new account bundles went live.

Even a newly introduced item to the BL Chest loot tables can spark a sudden supply spike for dyes in general as a byproduct of people going for the new shiny.

Edit: Not all of your perceived competition are flippers in the first place, they might be forgers as well.
For forgers, the price spread of the dye they are placing orders on doesnt really matter. If they want to forge rare dyes, they look at prices for masterwork dyes as a whole and only place orders on the ones with the lowest buy orders.

One masterwork dye might have a price 40s/70s and another one has a price of 20s/30s highest bid/lowest listing. You, as a flipper, might only place bids on the first dye, as it has a higher price spread and profit margin for each flip, the forger will place bids on the 2nd dye, as it has the lower highest bid. Sometimes, a dye is attractive to the forger and flipper at the same time because it has a low bid price compared to all other dyes and a high price spread.

The same goes for sell listings. Someone who dumps a a bunch of masterwork dyes might not have gotten them via buy orders but forged them with cheap fine dyes and paid a lower price than you did, so he doesnt care, if he undercuts you by a couple of silver.

They iddnt implement this for technical reasons, i guess. Many stats dont have exotic jewels assigned, like dire, shaman, soldier etc.

So they either have to make them craftable or salvageable vom trinkets with those stats.

Either way, it would require a good overhaul of trinkets and jeweling.

And compared to weapons and armor, asc trinekts are mostly available from vendors for account bound currencies.

If they would introduce a forge recipe to change stats on asc trinkets, you will remove quite some sinks for those currencies, like laurels, commendations, fractal relics, etc, so they would devaluate those currencies.

I gonna summarize some concerns and my opinion about them with bullet points:

• Not all veterans give better feedback

Thats true. Just because someone is a veteran, doesnt mean he is able to give valuable feedback, that he doesnt water down feedback threads with off topic posts, trolls or give feedback at all. Many of the disgruntled people on the forums are veterans. Most people who get bored or fed up with a game, simply stop playing it. So people who keep sticking around longer than that are more prone to be disgruntled about something.
But the crowd of PPers, who currently participates in BWEs also has those people in them, some of them being veterans, some new players.
So it has to be determined how big those ratios actually are.

• Veteran opinions are biased

Also true. But I dont think its a bad thing. The mayority of concern about the veteran bias seems to be coming from the fear of HoT being tailored towards their wishes. The advantage of having a vet BWE is also that Anet knows the group of people that is giving feedback a little better. I am pretty sure that Anet has a special focus on a certain group of players from a business point of view. Maybe they make more revenue by accounts within their first 6 months compared to accounts aged 1-3. In that case, I would also focus my beta testing on new players.
And thats what they should keep doing, i think. A vet BWE shouldnt take away beta testing from PPers, it should be an addition in the early beta stages. Concerning using a biased group for feedback, I think its a good idea and should could also be implemented for new players, so Anet can focus on their feedback as a target group.
Anet used this kind of bias before during the desert borderlands invitationals and eotm betas, where their focus was on feedback from veterans.

We are on page 2 already and some arguements keep coming up. Many people dont read my additional posts, so I will try to summarize some of my additional posts and general concerns:

Its obvious that a Veteran BWE in the coming weeks wouldnt go down well with the mayority of the players that posted here. I didnt check posting history on the forums or AP in game of those that opposed it ot determine, if they are mostly new players. So I assume, most of the player base, old and new, are against it.

And I agree. My intention wasnt to make Anet do a vet beta for Hot, just so i can participate in one without having to PP the expansion. In fact, my proposal has pretty little to do with HoT specifically (I posted it in general discussions but it got moved here), I am just using the current beta testing phase as an example because we can all relate to it. My main goal was to find out, how feedback in general can be improved (from both sides).
A veteran BWE was just my initial pitch. Another main reason why I opened this thread was to learn something new for myself. I mentioned that i dont have much experience in beta testing before, so I am looking for some insights form people who have. In fact, I have very little experience in online communication and gaming or networking via social media as well for people my age. Any teenager or young adult probably has way more experience in those regards. Thats why I posted some of my personal stuff, to illustrate my personal and professional interest on that matter. I relied on direct personal and professional communication, interaction and feedback for nearly 10 years and only started online gaming, using social media and online communication more frequently a couple of years ago.

I gonna summarize some concerns and my opinion about them with bullet points with my next post.

phokus.8934:

AFK time, time doing nothing but running around and not using the game mechanics. You’re also making a huge assumption that all “veterans” would give feedback. There’s a bigger incentive for someone who bought the game to give feedback other than someone like yourself.

I can go on about how time played doesn’t equate to being good or being able to give positive feedback.

You’re looking for a free handout and have this gross notion of veteran privilege. Buy the game, play the BWE and give your feedback.

I never said that all veterans always give better or more valuable feedback than new players, there are outliers everywhere.

If I wanted to rephrase my initial question, i could also ask:

Does alot of experience in the game in general (or in certain content) make it easier to give good feedback?

Its funny how most posters disagree with my proposal because they think I just made it to be able participate in beta, even though I mentioned that i am not interested in doing so. If I wanted to, I would have prepurchased. I never registered to get a random invite from Anet and also never played a single stronghold match during open beta.
I opened this discussion to see, how feedback in general might be improved.
I never demanded anything and also stated that I dont expect Anet to do a veteran BWE for HoT at this time but people still seem to disagree, just because they think I have ulterior motives.

phokus.8934:

Hours played doesn’t have a direct correlation of being able to give feedback.

You want to play BWE? Be like the rest of us and purchase HOT.

What makes you think so?

If I wanted to get some balance feedback, i rather have it from people, who played 500 hours on each class, rather than someone who only played 1 class for 20 levels.

Varrg.2704:

My future Reaper has Noble Count outfit, Twilight is on the way, now the only think she needs are a pair of bat/gargoyle wings

Chiroptophobia seems a better fit than twilight, though.

Some Risen Illiterates drank her because they fancied a kittentail.

Pistol Joe.3741:

i still dont get it why it got insta deleted ..
but on topic .. Exactly wha tiam thinking .. why me as a human dont have a choice ..

I am not sure if you were the OP of the deleted thread but I reported it.

My reasons were that it was a racist post and the way it was written wasnt very inviting to a constructive discussion.

Wether racism in tyria between the 5 races is the same racism between different races and ethnical groups on earth and therefore punishable on the forums and in game, is debatable.

Especially because its written into tyrian lore past, present and quite possibly future.
I have nothing against some banter between the tyrian races on the forums or in map chat or roleplaying those conflicts.

But the other thread was full of racial slurs and was in my opinion just created to iniate a hateful trollfest.

Roleplayed or not, I dont think it should be conducted on a public forum, thats why i reported it.

100 of those were raffled last halloween.

Publishing an unfinished expansion wont win any of those players over.

Malediktus.9250:

Dhuums Scythe would be nice, but what weapon class would it be if we have no scythes? Staff maybe?

Town weapons!

RSLongK.8961:

Zalladi.4652:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2wv9x0/gw2_hot_preparation_guide/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2tnd7q/what_should_be_done_in_preparation_for_hot/

This is pretty much what i am doing seems pretty logical =x

But most of the things mentioned on those threads are related to account bound currencies, not crafting materials and thats what the OP asked for.

In one thread t1-5 mats were mentioned because people might want to level crafting disciplines on their new revenant but i doubt that this will be an issue because even veteran players will have to revisit lots of the lower level maps in order to finish collections and mastery tracks and we will see additional crafting material rewards from map completion.

Without knowing which mats will be needed for new legendaries, collections etc., its pretty useless to ponder, which crafting mats will rise in price.

While players might need a good amount of t5 and t6 mats after HoT, they probably wont need it right away because they have to finish some collections first or will be gated in some way, so there wont be a demand spike, i think.
I also know of plenty of players, who are hoarding champ bags until HoT goes live to take advantage of adjusted loot tables. So during the first days of HoT, I expect an unusually high amount of champ bags being opened which might flood the markets and we might be looking at tanking prices for mats that are on plenty of champ bag loot tables, at least for a couple of days or weeks.

I stocked up on fine t6 mats and also bought some more lodestones over time, but those are meant for personal consumption, rather than as an investment.

Those mats nearly never saw quick price spikes of more than 50%, so i think they arent a good investment.

Personally I focussed my investments on mats that have been introduced after launch because I think those mats are more likely to get new sinks in HoT. Some of them have limited faucets, compared to the old t6 mats, so they are more vulnerable to price spikes as well.

Other mats I invested in either have pretty limited uses atm and therefore are more likely to get new sinks, like essences of time for example, or are timegated, like mystic coins, charged ambrite or t7 wood/cloth/metal.

IF (big IF) they finally introduce jeweler and chef 500, those markets will see plenty of movement but in those departments I also only stocked up for personal use, not really for investment. The big fractal update might influence prices on items related to it but I dont play much fractals, so i am not familiar with droprates in there.
And i dont play around in markets I dont have a clue about, so I didnt buy much of it either.

Torsailr.8456:

Wanze.8410:

My goal is not to make Anet only listening to veteran feedback, I am just trying to find a way to streamline better feedback, regardless if that feedback is implemented in the game or not.
I am not trying to highlight or filter good feedback but to minimize unconstructive feedback.

I agree that better feedback is necessary; I don’t think a veteran BWE would accomplish it. I think two things are necessary for better feedback:
1. More dev interaction.
2. More player education on good feedback.

Perhaps I’m overly pessimistic but I don’t believe either is possible here. The first because company policy and/or time availability inhibits dev interaction and the second because most players don’t care enough.

Enough with my pessimism though…how could this work? Perhaps a CDI style feedback thread for each issue (Chronomancer, Tempest, Revenant, events, maps, etc).

Start with Gaile or an appropriate dev creating a feedback thread that starts with an overview of the discussion and rules for posting. The rules and overview post is important to tell players what’s expected and what the devs need to know in feedback. It also tells them how to give the feedback.

Follow that with strict moderation that deletes any post not meeting those rules. The heavy moderation is important to keep the thread on track and acts as a negative reinforcement of the rules; if you can’t follow the rules then you forfeit your voice.

Also, frequent dev acknowledgement of the topics discussed would be important. Frequent being at least every other day, preferably every day though. Dev attention alone is usually enough to keep threads civil and on topic. It also allows the feedback to be a discussion instead of a one sided rant.

I completely agree with 2. but as you said, its hard to accomplish. The CDI´s were a good approach in my opinion and I am sad they didnt pick it up again for HoT.
There is one going on on the API Forums, which isnt frequented by alot of players but funnily enough, sees the most red posts of all sub forums, i think. Feedback and discussion in general in the API subforum is quite enjoyable as there are nearly no troll posts.

John Smith, the Game Economist, started a thread about RNG on the general forums a couple of months back. Even though he didnt really participate in the discussion, he moderated a bit. Its by for not an ideal solution but i guess its better than the status quo and i guess we will see quite some changes to the reward and rng system in HoT due to the feedback of that thread.
I quite like the strict moderation approach as well, only allowing feedback in a certain format and deleting all other posts.

Even though i like feedback and interaction from devs as anybody else, i dont know, if more dev interaction neccessarily means more constructive feedback, as a dev post not only animates players that give valuable feedback but also troll posts/rants etc.

Zypher.7609:

I understand your thinking in how this would improve feedback. But I am inclined to agree with some of the other posters in that a veteran player does not mean they will be good at giving feedback.

I think what the forums and devs could benefit with is an improved forum interface. Maybe one that had an internal ranking system that could promote positive feedback. If an arena-net employee sees a post that has very good feedback, they could increase the user’s score. Once a user has hit a threshold they would gain access to a new portion of the forums that only users above a certain point could access. The forums currently are made up of about 20% good feedback, 20% random “i wants”, 40% of “I dislike x and will make sure everyone knows it” then 20% of trolling. (Numbers do not represent any facts at all, but are my opinion on browsing the forums daily.)

The hardest part for the staff is to weed through all the posts finding the 20% good feedback. They really need a section that a user has to earn in order to have access to. Of course this whole idea would get shut down by the vocal 80% that do not ever post positive feedback.

But in the end, I still stick by my thought that the majority of happy people playing the game do not ever touch the forums. So how do you implement a system to weed out the good feedback from the bad? That would be the real issue, rather than trying to say who is a veteran or not.

Yeah improving feedback was the general idea behind this. And limiting feedback to experienced players was my first thought to apply a filter.

An improved forum interface would certainly help, a rating system like reddit might help. Even though I hate if devs release info on reddit and not on the official forums, i understand why they post there as well.

I think restricting access to beta testing and discussion is a valid approach and is commonly used in beta tests for other games.

And after their open, non-NDA approach until now, i guess it wouldnt go down too well with the player base.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Coulter.2315:

Ability to choose bad traits reduced by 99.8%.

If the traits were bad, just fix the traits. Don’t cripple the system.

That was the whole point of the change, its easier to balance now.

Arantheal.7396:

This is possibly the most arrogant & self-deluded thread I’ve seen in a while.
I’m playing since 2 years now, became admin of a Server-community & post on these forum regularly. Still I do not posses the audacity to imagine my opinion being more important than that of others. Regardless how good your actual education is, it is simply impossible for you – or anyone – to emulate the preferences of the majority accordingly. Even tho a good chunk of feedback is worthless from a technical POV, it still very clearly communicates what this player liked, or did not, therefore generating data that just needs to get filtered properly (a-nets job, not yours) to display the actual preferences of the community, hence enabling a-net to possibly craft the best-received expansion possible. If they achieve it or not, is up to discussion, but restricting incoming feedback to a insignificantly small minority would cripple them right off the bat.

You love this game properly as much as I do, or the guy currently grinding queensdale with his first warri.
You know about this game as much as I do, and everyone else who is able to read the wiki.
You understand the technical aspect of the game about as good as I do, which is exactly as much as every new player potentially could do, if he has a IT background, which still pales in comparison to the guys who actually programmed it and know what the engine allows & what not, what can cause issues & which bugs are related to which part of the game.

Your input is as important as mine, and as important as that of every nub. Your ability to give decently structured feedback does not increase the value of said feedback. Get off your high horse and rather post constructive feedback, instead of theorizing together your own brew of “constructive feedback format”.

Also, buy HoT if you want to play the beta. No freebees for you, just because you paid earlier than some other people for it. In fact, we already got a free character slot, so yea, you get 800 gems for free by purchasing it now.

Oh my. I guess you only read the op and didnt care to read my other posts, so i will clear some things up again.
I never said that veteran feedback should get more consideration from Anet than feedback from new players. And I never said they should give new players less access to beta testing than right now.
And i bolded the part i strongly disagree with. Personally, I know significantly more about all aspects of the game compared to 2 or 3 years ago, so i feel better qualified to give valuable feedback now compared to 2 years ago.

I also mentioned that i dont want to beta test atm and i didnt make this post because i feel excluded.

Coulter.2315:

I’m sure there will be open beta at some point, if you want to get your opinion in before that (and you stated you would likely buy HoT before release, assuming money isn’t an issue and you’re passionate about testing) then preorder is always an option.

The veteran beta concept was applied to WvW and PvP because there are ways to rank people who do those game types. There is no such system for PvE unless you count achieves and that would probably cause more trouble than the info is worth.

I think Anet setting up a forum with a template for good feedback would be a good system for the next BWE though.

I dont really want to beta test at the moment and give my opinion about HoT to Anet, if I wanted to, I would simply purchase HoT now. This post is not about how HoT should be like but about the process of getting there.

Torsailr.8456:

This is a bad concept that could not accomplish it’s stated goals.

First, as others have pointed out, what is a veteran? That in itself is a question without a valid answer and attempting to answer it would only alienate people and bring a lot of grief to Anets’ door. But for the sake of argument lets say Anet comes up with a definition everyone agrees with…

You make the assumption that vets are better at giving good feedback than new players; just reading these forums kinda proves that to be false.

You also make the implication that there is a different demographic between new players and veteran players which would lead to better feedback. Without evidence to the contrary it is more likely that new players have a similar, or more likely larger, demographic to veterans. Neither a similar nor larger demographic would inherently give better feedback.

What would doing this actually change for Anet?
There would be a smaller pool of people to get data from which, by default, would mean fewer data points to compare. This would seem to be a bad thing for beta testing.

You’ve prescreened your testers which will skew your results. Many veterans develop a sense of tunnel vision for how the game should be played and play the game accordingly. This automatically removes certain edge cases from testing. Also, in the case of testing specializations that by design change how the profession is meant to be played can create a lot of confusion and bad feedback. If you’re so locked into a certain mindset that you can’t accept a different way to play the profession then you’re never going to give good feedback. New players don’t have this tunnel vision and are more accepting of changes. They bring a new perspective to the feedback that is just as valuable as veteran feedback. Again, veteran only seems like a bad thing for beta testing.

What has this not done for Anet?
Actually improved the quality of feedback.

To do that you need to educate people how to give good feedback, which they’ve tried doing. Sadly, many people don’t want to learn how or just don’t care to learn or just flat out refuse to give good feedback for reasons… And this is a problem for vets and new people alike.

In short, doing this just makes things harder for Anet with no benefit. This just feels like you’re looking for a way to give Vets a higher status than newer players in something.

Youre right, it will be hard to determine veteran status and whatever filter they would apply, there will be players excluded that in general give valuable feedback and there will be players participating that give bad or no feedback.

But that also applies to the current beta tester filter (pre purchase), so even if we dont agree yet that veterans in general give better feedback, we might agree that it wont devalue the general feedback as a whole either. So this wouldnt be a valid arguement to not do it, in my opinion.

Maybe i went into too much detail in guestimating the social background of veterans and new players and players who give valuable and unconstructive feedback.
My main arguement basically is that veteran players give better feedback because of their long time experience of the game. Players who have spent a thousand hours each in pve, pvp and wvw might look at skill or trait balance issues a different way compared to someone who only played pve for 200 hours. Veterans usually see a bigger picture.

My goal is not to make Anet only listening to veteran feedback, I am just trying to find a way to streamline better feedback, regardless if that feedback is implemented in the game or not.
I am not trying to highlight or filter good feedback but to minimize unconstructive feedback.

Some posters voiced their concern about biased feedback from veteran players but I think feedback is easier evaluated, if you know more about the background of your target group that is giving it.

I am not saying that the feedback of veterans should have a priority of implementation in the game, I am just wondering if it would be beneficial for gathering feedback in general, if you apply filters to your group of beta testers. Therefore it would also make sense to me to make a BWE for only new players and then compare the feedback and determine what and how it gets implemented, depending on my target group.

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Jerus.4350:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

I’d say only a few world bosses qualify. While there is a massive team at most, they aren’t something you really work together on, just all stand in a pile and pew pew together. I wouldn’t call that a team, more like a mob.

So whatzs the difference to the current dungeon meta of stack and kill?

Is it worth describing or are you just being silly? Simply put, when I go to do Shatter, Fire Elemental, Svanir Shaman, Karka Queen, Jungle Wurm, Mk II, or Shadow Behemoth I equip a range weapon, run to the area, press 1 when it starts and tab back out to waste time on the forums. If I try doing that same thing in a dungeon I’ll not be in there very long and surely won’t finish.

If you do that its your choice, you still have the option to actually contribute towards a faster kill by using proper skill rotations but you prefer to contribute as little as possible.

By doing so, you make a statement that challenging content isnt what youre looking for but rather the rewards are your primary goal.

These days, completing dungeons isnt a challenge either but it seems the option to complete them faster by stacking and killing and using good rotations is an incentive for players.

You can do the same during world bosses, if that is what youre looking for.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Jockum.1385:

SkiTz.4590:

Open world is their focus.
Spamming auto attack, and getting rewards so everyone is a winner and they can also show off their sparkly new dresses to everyone in the zerg. Its a win win for casuals, which is the overwhelming majority in this game.

On the other hand the only teamcontent are dungeons. Open World is singleplayer content.

You’re forgetting Fractals.

And guild missions and world bosses.

Thing is, my friends and I like playing things with 5-15 people. We don’t want an entire zerg to run with us doing something. Open world missions are always overwhelmed with people. I understand anet ideology is for you to connect with others, but you’re not connecting with other players at all right now. You’re just a mob.

GW1 had 18 dungeons, normal and hard mode. 2 elite dungeons. Also every mission and zone on hard mode equated a dungeon. Our guild would do nothing but dungeons (which didn’t reward a lot of money at all, you just hoped for good drops but mostly you’re doing it for fun).

My post was a response to someone who claimed that there is only single player open world content apart from dungens, which isnt true. Opinions might vary on how challenging that content is for groups of different sizes but guild missions and world posses are definately not single player content.