Guild Wars 2

If your only goal was to provide a resource for your guild then you could have just linked gw2dungeons or [KING] video guides. Yes, I know you didn’t find anything on google but you could have asked here and got a reply within an hour.

Now you spend hours to create something which will very likely be inferior than other sources. But as I said before, what you do with your freetime is entirely up to you.

rfdarko.4639:

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So yeah, I get the the whole “just have a thicker skin, I was offering my honest opinion” type thing, but…a bit of empathy can go a long way. It can help people actually hear your honest opinion, rather then getting annoyed and defensive.

Ye, I know I was being a bit meanie. One of my goals was to provoke discussion and well, I did add some filler words to soften the blow.

My only purpose was to make him reconsider whether he is willing to spend a lot of effort for a very small expected gain. Unless he has a really good plan or is willing to put an enormous effort I don’t think his guide is going to be a thing.

Yes, I could smile and say “good job” or “very nice” like most people but I prefer giving an honest and direct input.

gw2dungeons could use a lot more images and some kind of a system to show them nicely. I just haven’t seen any point for it since currently I’m not willing to put the effort to create all those images.

I also know content wise there is a lot of room for improvement. Different tactics, clarifications, better enemy data, etc. But since dungeons/fractals are so easy/stale I don’t see much need for improvements.

If I understood you correctly you are saying that it would be better to start a completely new guide than fix a simple mistake.

You also seem to talk as if guide makers gained something from their guides. This may come as a surprise but I don’t get paid for updating the guide. The idea that guide makers should compete and do “this and that” is really absurd, especially from a person who prefers to spend more time complaining than helping. Yes, I know, it would have taken like 15 seconds to leave a comment on the guide page.

But yes, looks like it’s always the 7th coffin.

I would love to hear that too. But as usually with negative feedback, nothing useful is really given.

Also I would like to hear why another guide with misleading and missing stuff somehow fixes “misleading and missing stuff” problem? With multiple incomplete sources it’s hard to tell which one is right, if people even check multiple sources.

Thanks for that. Looks like my keywords need some tweaking.

It’s been months since I have received any feedback for gw2dungeons. If something feels off I can clarify but I need to know what is wrong. However, based on how stale dungeon content is, I don’t how much there is to add. For example wiki is still a lot behind than gw2dungeons even when I haven’t really updated it for a while.

Do you think all those world boss timers are useful? Or perhaps some of them are obsolete? Perhaps one wouldn’t be enough but in my opinion there needs be a good reason for multiple applications. Otherwise developers could cooperate and create better application together.

Same applies for guides too. One guide isn’t enough. What video guides lack in detail can be found in gw2dungeons. What gw2dungeons lacks visually can be found in videos. Both complement each other. I personally don’t see how this new guide fits but I can be wrong.

Mirta.5029:

Wethospu.6437:

I would like to see an example for that, especially if linked video guides don’t explain that either.

Sure, we can have dozens of different perspectives. But it must be really fun to check through all of them instead of just one or two sources to find what you are looking for.

the only source I was able to find when I googled was Dulfy. Also who are you to say that nobody else can make guides just because they’re made by you? At the very least it’s useful for my guildies

Where did I state that “nobody else can make guides”? All I did was just give some feedback. What you do with your time is entirely up to you.

I’m bit curious what you googled since using dungeons or fractals should give gw2dungeons on the first page.

I would like to see an example for that, especially if linked video guides don’t explain that either.

Sure, we can have dozens of different perspectives. But it must be really fun to check through all of them instead of just one or two sources to find what you are looking for.

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

The visuals are nice but it’s something you can see in-game too.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Id hope anet can grasp the simple concept that no matter what they do they wont solve elitism and group exclusion. So its better to keep their current system where everything works. I think we just have to put continued faith in anet on this subject. DIfficult I know.

Eventually they will realize that they can add huge “voluntary” grind by making a set of multiple armors optimal / required.

It’s pretty stupid for people to ask for that but wouldn’t be the first time when people try to shoot on their own foot.

There will be options to filter records by player amount and player profession. So if you cap players to 1 you get all solo records. If you further define the profession you only get solo records for that profession.

First version for the interface is finished so in a couple days previous records should be filled in. We ran into an issue about lack of information on previous records so for now there will be lots of “unknown warrior” kind of stuff.

I have started creating the rule page which should done by tomorrow. All in all we are in schedule and can start on next weekend. Since rule meeting was postponed some stuff like solo category will be missing.

Yes, I will add entry format to the rule page once I have time to create it.

If there is time, I think record ownership could also be discussed. Basically do records belong to the guild or the players (what happens when a player switches guild). I’m pretty sure solo players would like to records move with them but 5-man records are probably a different thing.

However, I don’t see this as a big priority (so many topics already) as this can always be decided later when the issue actually happens.

I know records following players feels a bit weird since we have got used to the current system. But technically guilds don’t really have a big role in records, players do. What I’m saying that it doesn’t necessarily have to be like it used to be. For example instead of the guild name in records, tags could be added after each characters name. Then guild profile could be used to see which records members of the guild currently have.

Anyways, I will make an implementation which supports all these options so this can be decided later. Probably needs a meeting since this is quite a big thing and lots of different opinions.

The very reason of a clearly defined system is to avoid any exceptions or special cases. With multiple categories and a history of previous records we will at some point have hundreds of records. Which means any special cases may mean a lot of extra work.

Also one thing to consider is all time records since they may not be easily broken.

Not to mention cases where players from multiple guilds make a record together.

I would like to get opinions regards ownership of records. Should records belong to guilds or players? Basically what happens to records when a player changes a guild? Consider cases

• Guild [A] does a 5-man record. One player switches to guild [B].
• Player does a solo record. He switches his guild.
• Guild [A] does a 5-man record. Entire guild disbands/splits and forms a new one.
• Guild [A] does a 5-man record. Entire group changes guild.
• Guild [A] does a 2-man record. Those two switch guild.

Options:

• Records transfer when a player switches guild. Causes records to be shared between multiple guilds which may get messy.
• Records never transfer. Solo players might be screwed.
• Record transfers if all participants switch to a same guild. Causes solo records to transfer. Allows guilds to disband and reform.
• Record transfers to guild with most participants, priority with original guild. Same as above but not so strict.

hybrid.5027:

dlonie.6547:

I’m happy for my thief, but sad about might.

Edit: I assume the might nerf will prompt a record reset? That’s an across-the-board decrease of 125 power for all party members.

I think its possible, but in lower level dungeons you were probably stat capped (or close to it) anyway with Might and food so it probably wouldn’t change much for sub-80 dungeons. I could see it being something in level 80 though.

Might doesn’t get attribute capped.

Just a quick update. Interface is in pretty good shape. I will probably get initial version done next weekend (will have other stuff to do though) so after that approvers can start adding previous record data. During next week I try to work on site record page design and add filters for different categories. If any spare time, I add guild/player profiles.

Officially we will start after the rule meeting.

IIRC, Lupicus used to have -100% crippled duration.

Painbow.6059:

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people who only play warrior are usually worse
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:(

In the new site restricted runs will automatically compete in unrestricted ruleset. If that makes any difference.

With proper database implementation all these things are relatively easy to do. Also all pages and categories will update automatically when database gets updated. So far the plan is:

Records page
Contains every record. On top there are options to filter data. For example

• Maximum amount of players (solo, duo, etc.)
• Rule set
• Only valid records (for all-time)
• Show dungeons
• Show fractals
• Show specific dungeon/fractal
• Before date
• Before game update
  
  Predefined filters might be used for official categories.

Player page
A list of players. Selecting a player shows his guild, characters, records and videos.

Guild page
A list of guilds. Selecting a a guild shows its players, records and website.

Rule page
Contains current rule sets. Also links to previous rule sets.

For the record page I’m planning to add different view modes. Not exactly sure about exact implementation but some way to show additional like date, game build or even watch videos through the site.

I would also like to see Snow Crows destroyed.

So seems like some sort of a meeting to discuss rules and inform about gwscr changes might be good?

Would stuff like guild / player profiles be interesting? Like you could see which records certain player has participated in or which records certain guild has done.

All this would be much simpler if we had active devs. :/

Since DnT site is functional I don’t see any rush with this. I would say it takes me like two weekends to set this up. Improving current static site and setting up SVN/FTP for everyone (and teaching them to use) would probably take a weekend.

This weekend I will create the database, add some dummy data and create basic dynamic page (will only show current 5 man records). Next weekend I add some basic filters and create the database interface. Third weekend I will polish and fix bugs. I can probably do some stuff during the week too but not going to rely on it.

So current roles and responsibilities so far:

Head administrator
That’s me

• site management (adds features, updates rules when they are decided)
• staff management (appoints staff, manages permissions)
• problem solving (drama, staff issues, site issues)
• calls in rule meeting?
• calls in votes when an record attempt gets contested?
• resets records after balance changes?

Rule meetings
Debby [iV] and Menno [iV] (haven’t asked yet)

• Hosts rule meetings when requested (by head administrator?)
• Contacts people
• Ensures that the meeting goes properly
• Coordinates with the lawyer for updating the rules

Lawyer
Nike (I assume he is posting as hybrid, please correct if wrong)

• Updates the rule text
• Sues people

Approvers
Ravi [DnT], Spoj [rT], Iris [Noob], Rising Dusk [VZ], Snowball [KING], Mhenlo [SC] (amount seems fine for me at this point)

• Tags a record attempt with a post to reserve it (so people see it is being worked on)
• Approves or rejects the record attempt in a clear case
• Requests help in unclear cases (asks other opinions to prevent any conflicts)
• Votes when a case gets conflicted/contested (vote called by head administrator?)

Issues/unclear things:

• Who decides when a record attempt gets contested? Could approvers somehow do it? Should a vote always be done (allows trolling to increase workload)?
• When a rule meeting should be called? Every 4th month? Decided by someone?
• When to reset records after a balance change? Could this be done by approvers if their decision can be contested? How severe nerfs should cause a reset?

Record attempt process

• Make a post on official forums
• Attempt gets tagged by an approver within 48 hours.
• Record gets approved or rejected within a week.
• Anyone can contest the decision with a reason causing approvers to vote.
• Decision by a voting can’t be contested without a 100% proof.

Seems fair?

If I’m able to do a dynamic record page (as mentioned on the other topic) record data will be on a database. In that case ftp and svn become reluctant and approvers either have to know how to use the database or I make an interface for it (likely). Interface would be a website where you could add, remove and edit entries without any special expertise.

It’s not about the people who don’t know the rules. It’s about the people who break them on purpose. Unless we enforce each party member to record their view there will be some blind spots. Camera turns left, people drink stuff on right. Or something else subtle like trait manipulation to change utilities.

I’m not saying these things will happen but it’s good to be prepared so everyone knows what to expect.

I had some time to work on the initial site. Pulled the record data from DnT site and edited colors.

Page and its progress can be previewed here.

Page and its progress can be previewed here: http://gw2dungeons.net/Records.

Introduction
This topic is about what content the record site should have, and perhaps what it looks like. If you feel like talking about staff and communication, feel free to use the other topic.

Content
Dynamic page with filters-

Feel free to share your ideas!

TODO:

• Add a link to the rule set on category column
• Design brainstorm
• Reddit release
• Optimization
• Interface brainstorm
• Additional features brainstorm (record resetting problem)

That sounds good for me.

Zui.9245:

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If you’re going to re-do the system due to appearance of impropriety, I think you should re-do it not with a system that can redress errors in it after the fact, but which actively seeks to eliminate those errors before they occur. At the very least, if a record is to be rejected, a majority of approvers should second the rejection (which isn’t even onerous, because the first person to review it must have a reason why, and can simply say something like “check 4:38 and you’ll notice the thief uses a hylek pot for swiftness” or whatever), and thus, when actually rejected you can say something like “a majority of our approvers are rejecting this for X”, instead of something like “[possible person you’ve got a long standing, ugly, and public grudge with] has rejected your record because X”.
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If rejection is based on a clear rule break why would you need more than one person? If any approver feels uncertain about any decision they could call in a voting.

And yes, DnT approves this.

Happy hatchling slaying!

I will be at work for like 3 more hours, after that I will start working on this. Entries will probably be on a plain text file for easy editing. Once I figure out the format you can fill rest of the entries. Perhaps tomorrow or the day after that.

Generally speaking things should go fine as long as people aren’t approving their own records. But what is important how we avoid drama and bias calling when something gets rejected. I don’t think the individuals matter that much as long as the whole community is represented. Like one approver from rT, DnT, SC, etc.

So everyone could approve and reject non-related stuff on their own but if their decision gets contested then additional approvers would be used. This could be handled for example by a vote from all non-related approvers.

It would be helpful to know if majors guild have interest of having one approver because if all have one it should be more than enough for our needs.

After that we can see if we need extra persons to manage the record table.

Page and its progress can be previewed here.

Introduction
As most of you may already know, GWSCR.com has stopped working so record runs haven’t been updated for a while. DnT took the initiative to resurrect the project and after some discussion we decided it would be the best to host in on neutral site like gw2dungeons.net.

Goal of this topic is to discuss how this should be implemented and to voice any concerns.

My role
To keep things as neutral as possible and to avoid any drama/suspicion I have left rT. Also I won’t take part in any decisions about rules or records. What I do is run the site, update stuff, make sure everyone does their job properly and try to solve drama stuff.

Other roles
To keep rules updated we need someone to call meetings to decide and write updated rules.

As far as organizing rules updates, Debby and Menno from iV have been doing a good job with it. they have far more contacts than I do, especially with the smaller EU guilds who I have probably never interacted with.

Then we also need people to approve record runs (preferably not the guy who writes rules). I have no idea how many people are sufficient so suggestions are welcome. Also how record approval should work is up to debate. I would prefer approvers to have direct access to the record table so they can update it on their own. But gw2dungeons is static content so they would at least have to know how to use ftp and svn. Not a rocket science but if you have any trouble with microwaves… Another option is to for example entirely rely on me updating the site.

Suggested people: Ravi [DnT], Spoj [rT], Iris [Noob], Rising Dusk [VZ]

Record posting
I think the official forums should be used for record posting and any announcements. This means that there would be no separate forum for records. gw2dungeons would still be used to show the records.

gw2dungeons could have a record-applying form to inform us about a new record. I’m not sure if this is really needed though if approvers regularly use the official forums.

Other stuff
I will later make another topic to discuss about categories and what the site should actually have. I know you guys probably have all kind of ideas but please try to hold on them until we get basics settled.

Please discuss and ask any questions!

Windsagio.1340:

Wethospu.6437:

I have only got kicked for meleeing lupi.

Now now, what about when you got kicked for soloing mai after you did the first 3 fractals on your own and the rest of your party wiped before the first cannonade?

That wasn’t really a group play so I don’t think it really counts.

I haunt because I’m a ghost.

I have only got kicked for meleeing lupi.

Jerus.4350:

I will say, what bugs me isn’t so much the glitching, but the fact that people refuse to be open that they are going to do it. If people would simply put “WoR Lupi” or something like that I’d know to avoid that group, but now I just have to ask as soon as I enter and there is a guardian in the group.

I understand why people glitch things, but I simply don’t want to be a part of it when fighting Lupi is the main reason I run Arah.

If plan is to leave anyway you could always take Sigil of Paralyzation and interrupt Lupicus.

Which dungeon is that?

Send me 1 gold or I report you for off-topic.

I saw one of them doing a barrel roll avoiding all damage. Never seen hack like that before.

Any reason why you would track both completion and time to complete?

What I would do:
- If a path is ran more than on average, decrease its rewards
- If a path is ran less than on average, increase its rewards

We got some negative nannies on reddit so please upvote everything as much as you can.

I have only upvoted every topic, but not posts.

Anyways, point was to encourage other people do the same.

To promote dungeon community and positive behavior on Reddit I have decided to upvote every dungeon related topic and every non—totally-idiotic post on them.

The biggest problem is that there are only a couple of skills worth interrupting. If there was a skill which had to be interrupted then it would be interrupted, with or without defiance.

For zerg design, I think bosses should be generally immune to all control except during some special attacks with long casting times. For example boss had a skill with 5 s cast time which did 5 huge PBAoEs in 5 s with a very high damage. At beginning of the cast control immunity would be removed and boss would gain a stack of defiance for every fifth player. So a 50 man zerg would have to use 10 interrupts in 5 seconds or face serious damage.

Defiance itself is a pretty balanced mechanic in dungeons. Lots of boss attacks are AoEs so everyone in the group has to dodge or do something. Similarly party has to use ~5 interrupts to prevent an attack.

Using control properly doesn’t require much coordination. Keep boss at 0-2 stacks and use 3-5 interrupts when you want to interrupt something. For zergs this would be equivalent of keeping boss at 0-10 stacks and using 11-50 interrupts. Everyone just has to know what should be interrupted and what not.

What is a dungeon?

So did you verify is he svanir or icebrood?

So automatic enemy armor calculator would be possible if you can get your own stats and calculate min/max damage?

Thanks skywalker and Zui!