Skeletons actually spawn on people (who don’t block or evade summoning attack). So when you stack they spawn at the same place which allows you to easily kill them with area damage. Killing them means that Lich can’t consume them. If you kill them fast they won’t be able to use Retaliation, Protection and Regeneration which is a huge asset (Retaliation does lots of damage).
Melee naturally allows you to cleave and you do higher damage which helps with the damage race. Also stacking helps with buffs!
Let’s say you make a build with X dps. You test it on static target and get 0.9 * X dps because of ping/lag/whatever. Then you try build with Y dps. Now if assumed that you do same mistakes/lag/whatever you only get 0.9 * Y dps.
Let’s say Y = 2 X which means that second build does twice as much damage than the first one (Y / X = 2 * X / X = 2).
Now let’s compare “real” results. (0.9 * Y) / (0.9 * X) = Y / X = 2 * X / X = 2.
So with static dps test we get exactly same result as we would have got from the spreadsheet. It obviously doesn’t go like this if one build is much harder to play than the other but most rotations are extremely simple to use.
Why? Because after facing those bosses in the Labyrinth, the last thing I want while roaming to get more Trick or Treat bags in the open world is a boss that I cannot beat alone (and in the Horror’s case, can’t outrun either) popping out and slaughtering me in 2 hits. It might be amusing the first few times for some of you, but it’ll just get tedious eventually. Please leave them in the Labyrinth, where they belong.
Because of scaling they shouldn’t hit that hard. At least Lich is fairly easy to solo
This might be a new concept for some people but please pay attention to the Lich so you can evade (or block so use Aegis) his summoning attack. All you have to do is watch ground around him and dodge when it turns black. It has huge range so dodge even far away. If you get immobilized that means you failed and need better timing. If you do it correctly then no Skeleton will spawn on you.
Why is this so important then? Skeletons use group Retaliation, Protection and Regeneration. Once there are enough Skeletons they will have permanent Retaliation and you will melt yourself in seconds (use Boon removal!). Also Lich occasionally consumes nearby Skeletons (when he rises slowly) and heals a lot.
His normal ranged attack also heals him so if he is targeting you then try to dodge/block it whenever you can.
Stands to reason if you contend there’s no difference between spreadsheet and practice in any fight that downplays movement, you’d expect those sorts of fights to pan out exactly the same down to the mili-second.
Do you actually get results like that? I can’t say I ever have.
Trivializing the movement component of a fight is practically a Ranger’s M.O., so whether I like it or not, anytime I wanna’ mess around with a build I experience that sort of a fight. Last time I beat up the Reddit Ram to check out a new build idea that had a very particular order of skills, I got the following;
And that’s a pretty normal thing for me to see.
Occasional spurts of bad, rare spurts of good that are more reflective of the spreadsheet but never really quite there, and then some kind of median. I haven’t been able to manage perfect clockwork millisecond similarity across all instances, and I also haven’t seen practice ever hit the napkin math even on the low-end results.
/*(Semi-reluctant to post these numbers. This is just my playing around with a build, I don’t want to see people taking it as some overall indication of Ranger’s DPS potential.)
And with build with twice as much DPS you would clear it about twice as fast. Any mistakes you made in one build would also appear in the other because there aren’t really any skill shots.
I’m trying to present a pretty complicated concept in the easiest way I can imagine. Everybody can identify with weather and traffic, so they make good examples.
Well, there’s the human factor.
Spreadsheets don’t lapse into autopilot-level attention after 8 seconds and clip a back-loaded autoattack with a utility skill, for example. They don’t lose track of time and swap to the second weapon-set too early because they can’t see the cooldown on the screen. They don’t have brains that are constantly taking the easy way out, or fingers with a built-in lag, or eyes that only look at one thing at a time. It’s not just that spreadsheets are perfect, it’s that they’re not human.
Although, I’ll say it again. The closer you get to actual combat conditions the better, so personally I’d like to see a field test go a bit farther than Ooze so you can learn more.
As already state, the human factor is pretty much same for every build in simple situations like Ooze.
I’m all for a real testing but it should be close to a real run, not close to a spreadsheet.
You’re right in thinking Skill Level has an impact.
But that’s not the alpha and omega of why things are different between spreadsheet and practice.
Any moderately complex system doesn’t predictably paint by-the-numbers once things are in motion (weather). Much less a moderately complex system with any kind of human input (The stock exchange). Even systems that are constructed by man with seemingly limited ways for a human to make input and theoretically limited variation (traffic).
It’s not that you’re using math versus not using math.
(If anything running a field test is just giving you more to math with.)
It’s that to learn more about what’s going in math theory alone you’d need much much much higher level math than the spreadsheet level. And, frankly, nobody has time for that. So it’s just much easier to learn more about what’s going on by running a field test.
/edit: last paragraph was a bit oddly written.
Are you seriously comparing systems like weather and traffic to a static meatbag target in a game (Ancient Ooze)?
Could you tell me what’s so complicated about it? It doesn’t attack (well, does, but can’t hit you) so you just have to stand still and do your DPS rotation. Which is exactly what happens in spreadsheet.
After some time “Waiting for authentication” page seems to time out to “unknown authentication”. Problem is that if you are behind a slow connection that appears usually faster than you can load up the email.
For example I had to try about 10 times until I managed to do all the steps withing the time limit.
Also remembering network isn’t an option when you are connected to some random network.
Sure, in real situation you will always do worse than optimally. However, pretty much every build is so simple to play that difference between optimal and actual should remain same.
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I also never said standing inside him was the ONLY way that he doesn’t do Necrid Trap – the comment was just provided as a tip based on experience. To this day, I have yet to see him cast Necrid Trap on me when I’m standing entirely inside him.
And I have yet to see him cast it when I’m just standing still. So staying inside him may not be necessary. And if it’s not needed then it would be pointless to add.
There has been lots of different info about Necrid Trap so would be finally nice to get to the truth!
I really think we should time as much as possible. If RNG on CoE end becomes a problem that can easily be overruled because we have it timed. Timing actual becomes a problem when we don’t have necessary info. Unskippable cutscenes are also part of the run and apply similarly for every team.
I guess first event/etc is fine as long as they are clearly listed for every path.
The more I think about it the less I care about arah sigil stacking. People do it for casual runs, so it’s not like you’re taking extraordinary measures. The dungeon is designed to facilitate it, so it doesn’t seem crazy to allow it.
People stack sigils during the run, not before it.
Damage formula is extremely simple and isn’t exactly same thing as chess. But I will play along. Static boss so we assume that opponent doesn’t move his pieces. Figuring out optimal tactic isn’t that complicated anymore.
As long as old ways don’t give any advantage then they should be perfectly valid because they are comparable. If they do, then penalty of X seconds can be applied.
For example on arah p1, if you have timed a full run you can easily figure out time from first gate to last boss. If old record used sigil stacking then maybe like 15 seconds of penalty can be applied.
Use common sense per dungeon/path. You need to compare what’s comparable: two runs within a path, not runs accross dungeons. So decide per path/dungeon what’s the best and stick with it.
For instance, I consider AC starts when the big door opens, but I consider the start of TA’s paths at different moments: when you enter the poison path for up and fw, but after you speak to Caithe when you do the new path.
It’s more easier and efficient to decide simple global rules instead of needing to do same for each path.
Also one thing to consider is prestige. For normal people the run is from entering the dungeon to getting the end reward. If we create special rules then our runs won’t be realistic and people won’t care that much.
That’s why I think from start to end should be the base line. And straying from that should have a very good reason.
Yeah I know what you mean. Its just been done so much already it would invalidate half the records.
I meant this for future runs. Old ones would still be valid (since they can be compared, just requires some effort). Also this should more like a guideline, not actual enforcement. For example if a rogue group starts timer 5 seconds later but finishes 2 minutes faster. They would still get the record instead of “lololol you didn’t follow our rules, invalidated!”
I don’t understand either why this is really needed. On static target math should get the same result. If it doesn’t then your math sucks and you should work on that. Once you know that your math works you can generate any kind of situation and try to simulate reality.
I understand wanting check if animations are timed correctly or that skills actually do what they say. Like calculate average DPS for Axe chain and then just Axe chain the Ooze to death. And see if they match.
I think we should try to reach an agreement when to start and stop the timer. That would make comparing times much easier (especially for the casual crowd).
What I’m proposing is:
1)
Timer starts when anyone moves or uses a skill.
Timer ends once you get the end reward.
or
1)
Timer starts once the path has been selected or in first enemy contact (which one happens earlier).
Timer ends once you get the end reward.
Try without pushing him (circle around him). I have couple of times just sat on range and let him come at me and he has never used Necrid Trap.
There are 4 factors which affect or may affect it; movement, downed state, range and pushing. I’m interested whether range or pushing affects it or both.
I would like to see proof that if you stand on somewhere else he will cast Necrid Trap. Or that moving at specific range doesn’t make him use it. Because I still think it is only related to movement.
And I’m not sure what I should say about your “veteran=elite” comment. Have you ever done fractals or any open pve content? Or do you never look at the health bars to check enemy icon?
You should check this , perhaps that opens your mind!
AoE changes are same for everyone else. What makes you think your Elementalist is the special snowflake?
Anyways I would like to remind everyone that their philosophy is to do small changes and let the meta evolve. If they say massive they probably just mean lots of changes.
Just wanted to say i feel really let down by the patch, no great staff buffs where added, infact alot got nerfed.
Why does anet hate so much on ele? but loves warrior?
Do you call this love?
Vengeance: Players are now granted the same duration of invulnerability as rallying upon activation (1 second from 5 seconds).
Empower Allies: This trait has been moved to tier 2.
Anyways the story doesn’t progress at all in the new dungeon (except what you can hear from the NPCs in the start). You just go in and destroy one base.
Learn to survive his special attack. Then all your issues go away!
For example on Warrior I hit Riposte and block 2 waves then dodge twice (with Stability if I mess up) to evade the last 3. It’s quite fun when everyone else dies around you and you are at full health.
I’m curious how you can wipe on Sparki. You can easily get out of combat to get all of your health back. Slick can actually wipe the entire team if you let the puddles stack.
(killing scale 80 Champion Shaman without anti projectile skills)