While there are some differences (CoF1, Arah) most of the difficulty comes from the party you are running with.
All are easy if you know what you are doing and all are hard if you are clueless.
Completed path 1. After 8-9 hours of failing over and over again, the final run took about 30 minutes. http://i.imgur.com/fYLLyzy.jpg
Maybe i’ll do a full solo of path 2 if i sometime can spend 5 hours without a break.
Path 3 will (hopefully) follow.
Nvm i forgot the burrow event at start, so here is the full solo: http://imgur.com/IcmxSO3
I’m not calling for nerfs but they seriously need to buff us weaker classes to your master-class level.
Dungeons are supposed to be end-game so yes if you just hit level 35, suck with your profession, have crap gear, have bad build, don’t have any good skills unlocked and have no idea what you are doing, then you won’t make it.
How to define wiping (one guy wiping, party resetting fight, all dead)?
“Wipe” means “all party members died”. It comes from “wipeout”. A single person dying is a death, not a wipe. I don’t know why some people chose to start calling dying “wiping”, probably a desire to sound more “cool”.
As for the rest of your post, it becomes too lengthy and too tiring to answer you, so I won’t anymore..
Exactly. Current dungeons which allow resetting encounters just don’t work with your system.
If your implementation is too tiring to explain then it is probably too complicated.
I think by tiring, he meant that trying to convince you that you aren’t 100% right is tiring.
He’s probably right.
I’m not saying that improvement shouldn’t be encourage. There was a time when I was “omg Lupicus is too hard nerf him now please thanks lol.” Then I learned how to play my warrior, and realized that I was kind of being a kitten.
On the flip side, not everyone plays the enormous amount that I do, and not everyone wants to work that hard when the play.
Perhaps those people should be denied dungeon rewards by your standards, but I believe that there should be an option.
As a side note, I PUG quite often, and I find that many people actually want to do the dungeon correctly, don’t know how, and are used to elitist jerks that just brush them off. There are problems that stem from elitists as much as from laziness…perhaps you should consider how you are contributing to the problem/solution.
Regarding AC, I think the knockdown is excessive. Otherwise, I enjoyed path 1.
Just wondering are you saying that it is a non-issue that there are two ways to “lose” an encounter while his system deals with just one. Partial wipes are quite common.
My point is that you can have a great idea but its implementation has to be simple enough so that it’s doable. And he has barely scratched the surface, at least I can understand why I don’t fully understand his idea.
In my opinion key is better learning curve. Story-modes are quite useless and they should be reworked to give better learning experience. Make story-modes simpler and clean, just basic mechanics and no fancy stuff. For example you see a room with big spider and NPC advices you to take condition removal and watch out for “glow”.
To make explorable modes better they should reduce “ambushes” because proper preparation is a huge asset (story-wise there can be ambushes but player shouldn’t find himself middle of enemies unprepared and with no idea what to do).
How to define wiping (one guy wiping, party resetting fight, all dead)?
“Wipe” means “all party members died”. It comes from “wipeout”. A single person dying is a death, not a wipe. I don’t know why some people chose to start calling dying “wiping”, probably a desire to sound more “cool”.
As for the rest of your post, it becomes too lengthy and too tiring to answer you, so I won’t anymore..
Exactly. Current dungeons which allow resetting encounters just don’t work with your system.
If your implementation is too tiring to explain then it is probably too complicated.
We should attempt to get as realistic situation as possible. Quite many (most?) people use weapon-specific traits on their builds. And because it is quite simple thing to include there is not much reason to leave it out.
Just wondering, why bother with any kind of math/testing if it doesn’t represent real-life (people running real builds)?
Sure, you proved a point but is it meaningful at all?
It is not. Waypoint zerging has nothing at all to do with “my system”. Also, I did not suggest to re-enable waypoint porting for groups in combat.
WP-zerging also reduced rewards with repairing-cost but that didn’t stop people. Similarly with your system people throw themselves at the boss until it gets easy enough.
And the revamp that has been done was no effort? I think the designer would disagree.
Also, an exploit is supposed to gain you something. Wiping on purpose would not gain you something but lower the reward (or not give a bonus for not wiping).
Did you read the post or just skim it?
Point of revamp was to make dungeon more exciting and fun for everyone, your system doesn’t improve content.
For example how to exploit: Boss which party can’t beat. They can try it few times and wipe after 5 minutes (~15 minutes). Instead they send one guy to wipe on purpose, takes 2 minutes. They saved 13 minutes. Now, depending how your system works, they may actually gain something from this.
There sure are such people. But generalizing as much as you do is just cynical.
Just wondering, how often you pug?
Lowering the rewards for people who play bad is already included in “my system”. Again, did you really read it? What do you suggest, give level 80 players who are bad at the game level 60 rewards? Or no reward at all? Seeing how you look down on them, I guess you do not want them to get anything at all.
There is a difference between an idea and an implementation. I can have an idea of perfect dungeon which is balanced, fun and challenging for everyone. However, implementing that is not that simple.
For me, implementing your system doesn’t sound simple at all. Every encounter needs a parameter to change based on wipes. How to define wiping (one guy wiping, party resetting fight, all dead)? What if party doesn’t want it to get easier? How do you handle “Dungeon Master”? What would be reduced rewards? How to make sure rewards are meaningful / not too harsh (people will complain otherwise)?
To clear up things once more: The “activation time” of the skills ingame or in wiki is not the real time it takes to channel the whole autoattack chain. The damage numbers shown in skills description/wiki are not right. Trying to calculate the overall DPS by doing some maths with wrong numbers won’t tell you much except bullkitten.
GS offers more DPS than Axe, if hitting multiple targets and probably having chance to WW to a wall, about 33% more. If hitting only 1 target landing 100b not fully and only using it all 8 seconds, GS still deals very slightly more DPS than Axe with Eviscerate + Autoattack spam.
Just tested numbers in game, no armor accessories, no traits. Basic weapons.
Can you take a screenshot and/or list your equipment please?
Also, if you ever have time, can you show me a run you do with a party?
I’m not doubting your skill, you are an amazing warrior, but I just want to see how you play in a party and with what gear
You’re one of the few warriors on this forum that can actually prove that he is doing what is he talking about. We need more warriors like you!
I’m pretty good, but no where good enough to solo dungeons… T___T
Not much to list. Berserker Exotic/Ascended stuff with Scholar Runes, Ruby Jewels and Precise Infusions. Berserker weapons with Sigil of Force or Sigil of Energy (off-hands). I don’t really even have anything else than Berserker-stuff (one soldier-backpack for agony).
I’m not really sure what run with party would show. Dungeon-wise I can solo quite many encounters and haven’t done fractals for a long time. I simply go in and smash everything to pieces.
On the other hand, some (you?) want them to be like you can just go unprepared without needing to learn mechanics/bosses (this is what I refer with facerolling) and still win. And this is the very reason we are seeing so many complaints.
I realize it’s not nice that everyone can’t do it and I think there should be better learning curve (generally). But truth is, I’m all up for a challenge and that’s design I will support.
First of all, no it was not “me” I was talking about. I have 2 accounts, multiple level 80s with excellent gear and I run dungeons with friends and guild in teamspeak. However, the “who” does not really matter and only shows once again that you look down on people with little skill. Fact is, there are people who are less good at games, and they want to have fun playing too.
A good/successful game does not send “You are not good enough so you are not allowed in this dungeon” as a message to its players. As I said before, it is not the new dungeon design that is bad. What is really bad, is that this revamped starter dungeon will discourage many casual players from trying/playing dungeons. I will just give one example on how the whole “revamp” could have been done much better (besides the obvious introduction of different skill levels for dungeon runs):
Let the game realize when the group is not good enough. Just as an example if a group wipes twice at one encounter, make it slightly easier. Decrease the number of adds, spawn them with less hp, remove some nasty mechanics. Make it so that the group does not quit in disgust, but still manages to complete the objective. At the end of the dungeon, present a summary of which encounters can be handled better. At the same time, introduce a small bonus for each encounter that was handled well. This will let “bad” players still have fun, and at the same time tell them where to improve and give them an incentive. A group manages to finish an encounter exceptionally fast? Great, give them a little bonus. A group struggles and the boss is still only at 90% hp after 5 minutes because people have bad equipment and do not play well together? Make it easier for them so that they may still finish the dungeon, but have them get a slightly smaller reward chest to reflect the toned down difficulty (again, this would be stated in the summary at the end).
Something like that is even already in the game. When a shaman manages to push a prisoner into the lava in the grawl fractal, the chest for this encounter will not spawn upon completion. But if the group manages to keep all prisoners alive, they get the little bonus for handling the encounter “well”. The general idea behind that particular game mechanic could be used much more than it is now.
PS: Please do not pluck apart details of what I wrote. I was giving examples and a general idea. The exact implementation would of course be a little more complicated than a basic “if a group wipes, spawn less adds”.
Sure, I’m fine with me looking down people with less gaming abilities. That’s something I value in games.
First of all your system would be so horrible to this game skill-wise. They removed wp-zerging because people threw themselves at bosses wiping constantly. This is what your system is encouraging.
It would be also quite big effort balancing all encounters and ensuring wiping is not exploitable. And what’s the gain? People can faceroll. Just seems more trouble than it’s worth.
People don’t really care about improving. They rather afk-ranged with exploits than learn the encounter and melee much faster.
I’m fine with making AC faceroll-dungeon but first remove its “level 80”-rewards. However, I think story-modes should be re-made to reflect explorables more and have improved learning-value. Introduce explorable-mechanics, with reduced difficulty and with npcs guiding you.
PS. Can I get reduced legendary-grind costs because I just can’t do it?
Yes, that’s what I’m suggesting. I’m also suggesting that level 80 pug can’t do level 80 dungeons.
Dungeons were meant to be high-end, going with random kitten and still winning is not high-end.
For that you need to consider sustainability.
To beat an encounter you NEED to have enough sustainability to overcome enemy offense (as long as it takes to kill it). Endure Pain has very poor sustainability. Basically, think how often enemies use their nasty stuff, that’s usually between 5-30 seconds. Then think how often Endure Pain can counter something, that’s 90 seconds.
You can’t rely on that on fight. If you need to use Endure Pain that means you have failed and needed a fail-safe. Learning the encounter and using high health pool as a fail-safe is much better solution.
However, for skipping it’s great because you don’t need long sustainability.
There is a question in this thread that you didn’t answer. Let me reiterate it for your convenience: Is AC Explorable still doable with a group of 35s? ...
To echo some other posts, at this point I would suggest that the Devs create an anonymous lvl 35 alt (equipped with rares). Each Dev should LFG a lvl 35 only group, so 1 Dev plus 4 pug, and run the dungeon.
The Dev is to play without voice chat unless the other 4 already have it, to play to the best of his ability but add no advice on how to clear the path(s)…feel free to post your results.
So your definition of “high-end” content is that random bad people can get together and do it without proper communication?
What I really find weird how some people get bugs literally all the time. I have done it dozens of times after January patch and I have seen her bug once (when she completely stopped hiding).
Now if you combine how average pug tries to do this (chaos, people getting downed all the time, etc)…
Okay, I watched all your videos, and that is awesome, but I take no pleasure in Solo-ing end-game content lol
I was wondering what would the most effective set up for party play?
I realize that there are a variety of roles, but I’m just wondering what you would say.
GS/Axe/Mace w/ what skills? etc. etc.
Nice solo videos though! I enjoyed watching which weapons you used for each situations and the constant changing of skills.
I do that occasionally, but to be completely honest, I just want to stick with fewer things to change and just play where the other 4 members are doing their roles. I can do hard-core gaming, but at this point in my life and a large workload from my final semester of college, I just want to have a pretty decent party build and play pretty casual w/o sacrificing too much
I just do damage, with minimal defenses required. GS + Axe/Mace is good on non-bosses but if you hate swapping I would go with Warhorn for group-mobility. Thing is, I really wouldn’t just stick with same setup all the time, small tweaks really make a difference.
My utilities usually are Frenzy! (fun), FGJ! and Banner of Discipline but again changed based on situation.
A warrior is only as good as his group. Wethsopu solo’s very specific content, where 2 dodges will get you out of any danger.
But if you are in a situation where your in a group and doing a ranged boss and your group is crap and you are getting pelted left and right by ranged auto attacks, adds and special moves, your as good as dead.
That being said some of the boss’s in his solo videos he had trouble with (almost downed) even with crit food, so its likely some of them he wont be able to do. Like the pirate boss I can see being an issue now, and possibly the asura. As the incoming damage might be too much to survive without back to back heals from food.
Still a skilled guy, just sayin its very specific content that you are able to get away with being rambo. And in a bad group your gonna get hit hard, in a good group a good warrior will shine, in a bad group a good warrior is gonna have trouble if there are multiple targets gunning for him…. meaning your going to have to leave melee and kite in alot of situations as you cant rely on food heals.
Against single-target the heal is still pretty good. Alphard was a tough one but bit better game-play and luck it should be doable. Biggest challenge of Belka was to make it look like as if I was actually doing something.
And yeah I pick my fights, I avoid dungeons which require set amount of people. I have tried almost every dungeon (like 4 missing, + some which I might be able to do with more practice).
If you try to melee the Volcano boss then you’re just simply kitten
Not true.
Actually, meleeing Imbued is almost an exploit as it makes the fight a joke.
If you do so the Imbued will continue to use the “fly and stomp” skill thing on you and never focus your team.
Simply put, rush to him, HB, when he goes up in the sky immediately whirl away, rinse and repeat.
If whirl is on CD simply rupt HB and double dodge away.
When adds spawn you break bubble and then stop hitting the boss completely (as should your team if they know how to play), burst adds down then continue the above strategy.
Your team will be immensely thankful to you that you made the hardest boss in fractals into a joke.
Or you could spam Rifle and shout healz from distance while your team dies as all bad Warriors do.
IIRC, you can just spam A and D at distance and its arrows will stray. And when you need to dodge every other second you probably do better at range. Fun though.
He probably wants to see videos with fixed life-steal food. SE Story will be the next one.
No, I just want to see a video, plain and simple
No veterans, but any full end-game instance of your choice.
If you already have one, can you link it?
I have a friend in my guild that goes full Berserk and does it, but he can’t take a video w/ his computer for some reason… and if I watched him throughout the dungeon, I would probably go down from not paying attention to myself xD haha
I don’t think there’s much to tell. 20/30/0/0/20 with damage traits. GS + Axe/X. Dodge all the time, weapon-swap all the time for Sigil of Energy, use burst for Endurance, swap utilities often, swap off-hands often (even main-hands occasionally), stay mobile, did I mention dodge?
After running every path just once:
Again, I can solo Spider Queen on my full-glass melee Warrior. If your team has issues with Queen perhaps you should analyze what you are doing wrong.
If knocks are issue then dodge better.
Hatchling changes are good, can’t just ignore them now. Shutting down Breeder is a lot more important.
Silvers have less health, who can complain about this?
Howling King was easy, three manned it. You can just run around and they hardly catch you.
Ghost Eater was bit weird, idea is nice but execution might be a problem (we just pulled it to one trap which means oozes spawned right on the trap so we had to just hover them).
Colossus was bit problematic. Relying on melee NPC, well, is very unreliable.
But I can see it being problematic because just facerolling seems quite hard (until you guys figure out some exploits).
The problem with your “argumentation” is that you do not seem to realize that your skill obviously is a good deal above average, and that not everyone with a skill below average is able to become as good. Instead of being glad that you are good at the game, you seem to feel the need to bash at those people who cannot control their character as well as you can, even when they try hard. Implying that people who have problems staying alive just suck and “faceroll” is rude and unneeded. Also your generalizing remark about “you guys” finding some exploits is pretty arrogant.
The dungeon with its current skill level would be ok if implemented as a challenge to level 80 players (who have decent gear and a good deal of experience). As an entry level dungeon with an (explicitly stated) “Level 35” requirement it seems more like a bad joke.
They should just make every explorable level 80 and implement up-scaling. Or make that entry-level dungeons have worse rewards than “real” dungeons. Yeah, no good money mobs, no tokens and so on.
I’m well aware that most of you guys suck, some even so horribly that they don’t try to improve. Still, if I can solo something (and quite easily btw) it should give some hint about the real difficulty.
It really boils down to how one thinks how dungeons should be. On my solo-journeys I have noticed that I will do much better and get stuff done much faster when I just walk to enemy and see what it does, intentionally let it hit me and try figure out how to avoid that. This is exactly what I love to see more. It doesn’t take special skill to research monsters, reset and prepare accordingly (not even for current AC).
On the other hand, some (you?) want them to be like you can just go unprepared without needing to learn mechanics/bosses (this is what I refer with facerolling) and still win. And this is the very reason we are seeing so many complaints.
I realize it’s not nice that everyone can’t do it and I think there should be better learning curve (generally). But truth is, I’m all up for a challenge and that’s design I will support.
And I have noticed that when an encounter forces people to learn and analyze it they rather find exploits (arah p3 lanterns anyone?, ac stairs?, list goes on), and yes, usually get huge problems if they have to do it properly.
After running every path just once:
Again, I can solo Spider Queen on my full-glass melee Warrior. If your team has issues with Queen perhaps you should analyze what you are doing wrong.
If knocks are issue then dodge better.
Hatchling changes are good, can’t just ignore them now. Shutting down Breeder is a lot more important.
Silvers have less health, who can complain about this?
Howling King was easy, three manned it. You can just run around and they hardly catch you.
Ghost Eater was bit weird, idea is nice but execution might be a problem (we just pulled it to one trap which means oozes spawned right on the trap so we had to just hover them).
Colossus was bit problematic. Relying on melee NPC, well, is very unreliable.
But I can see it being problematic because just facerolling seems quite hard (until you guys figure out some exploits).
I will keep going with full glass GS + Axe/X, with Omnomberry Ghosts.
X depending on situation or whatever you can find? That’s really broad lol
How do you handle 35+ Fractals with a double melee set?
Thanks for your input~
—
I have been just in F30. Then I stopped because it was still so boringly easy (and I don’t like Agony at all).
But if it gets too tough I can always swap to ranged and faceroll at range.
Wait… that makes no sense lol..
You stopped going further into Fractals because the earlier levels were too easy?
Sigh, I wish there was a good melee alternative to stick too even when things get sticky lol.. I’m seeing some of the Guardian builds and wow…
I just had huge expectations for F30. All that grinding, and then it was just same. Lost all my motivation for Fractals. Then I decided to kill Lupicus instead.
I will keep going with full glass GS + Axe/X, with Omnomberry Ghosts.
X depending on situation or whatever you can find? That’s really broad lol
How do you handle 35+ Fractals with a double melee set?
Thanks for your input~
—
I have been just in F30. Then I stopped because it was still so boringly easy (and I don’t like Agony at all).
But if it gets too tough I can always swap to ranged and faceroll at range.
Only numbers I have seen is that GS does more damage than Axe. However, GS Skill 1 < Axe Skill 1 so it matter how often you can use HB. And that is not trivial.
They wanted to tone it down and it needed to be toned down. Pre-patch it was the best offensive AND defensive food. It should be “weak” because it does both.
It is still very strong food, just not ridiculously overpowered.
