Guild Wars 2

Not to mention what’s the counter supposed to be after you use your 3 seconds of defensive skills?

Another cookie cutter 0/0/30/30/10 build. How innovative. Can’t we get a sticky thread for this kind of thing? “AH and EM are the best traits ever builds”

“Just fine” is not good enough. If you are stacking MF and doing “good” damage, you could be doing even better damage with berserker’s or another set. That is the expectation. So what if your dungeon run was smooth? It could be even smoother and faster if you weren’t leeching.

One of the biggest issues is that the only really legendary looking weapons are Dusk and Dawn. Most of the rest are simply decent looking skins with no interesting effects. There’s also the problem that 2H weapons and 1H weapons all require the same effort but you need 2 1H weapons to make a set so it requires twice the effort.

My biggest gripe with legendaries is that they are pure grind. They aren’t gained by actually accomplishing anything other than standing in front of the TP and/or MF. You can literally buy yourself a legendary weapon. That’s the worst kind of implementation they could possibly do.

Why don’t legendaries require accomplishments in all aspects of the game? You could make it just as grindy and difficult but with far more variety. There should be no gold requirement at all. Base it all on karma, dungeon tokens, world exploration, fractal currency, achievement points, and possibly even wvw currency. You should have to actually play the game. This would be far more “legendary” and far more fun.

Stacking 5 bad things don’t make them all good. If you think healing signet regen is worthless, it doesn’t become better just because you have other equally bad sources of regen in addition.

You can argue that it’s not worth it, or that it’s only worth it if you have high toughness but it makes no logical sense to say it’s only worth it if you have other regen in addition. In fact, it probably becomes less worthwhile as you stack regen because it has a lower effect on your total healing.

Kahrgan.7401:

Yaki.9563:

Kahrgan.7401:

Yaki.9563:

And just how you are going to support your group if you’re downed or dead?

But nice troll post

Why would I be downed or dead?

Bad build is bad, sorry if the truth hurts. Heck you didn’t even take EM which is one of the main synergistic traits with AH.

With the lack of crit in this build, taking EM would be a waste of a trait in my experience. And I appreciate that you have the right to your opinion, but try not to be so aggressive with them, especially in such an immature way.

While we are discussing opinions. Vitality in my opinion, is almost a completely worthless thing to stack, the precision is nice from Magi’s gear, but vit for the most part is something I avoid sans 1 weapon to get above 16k. You get enough from the trait lines in this build to be hard to kill with the amount of toughness and survivability.

and for clarification (I stated survival while helping your group, not that AH helps your group, but 2 birds 1 stone).

I agree Vitality is somewhat wasted but EM is one of the best ways you can enhance your group. This is what I hate about Cleric’s gear, power is almost totally worthless when you aren’t gearing and traiting for damage. WTB Pre/Tou/HP gear.

But you don’t have AH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don’t you know AH provides the best group support in the game even though it doesn’t actually heal anyone!?

It’s because people are hooked on 30 valor and AH, in which healing power really is nearly useless and a big waste. You have to build around support instead of lolfacetank while AH keeps me alive standard guardian thinking.

Angriff.1935:

Taking signet over anything else is only justified really by stacking regen sources. Which means atleast the 15 points in defense for adrenal health and 30 points in tactics for Inspiring Battle Standard.

This makes no sense. Healing is only good if you have more healing?

Brutaly.6257:

the best support you can give in dungeons is to actually keep damage from ever happening, that you wont do with a healing build, healing is reactive.

Imo the absolute best support you can give is to stack toughness, toughness seem to be one of the values anet uses to determine aggro. If you have aggro then your team wont be hurt.

And what Ynna said.

What kinds of instances do you run where all mobs attack one player and there’s no AE damage? Must be nice.

Kahrgan.7401:

Yaki.9563:

And just how you are going to support your group if you’re downed or dead?

But nice troll post

Why would I be downed or dead?

Bad build is bad, sorry if the truth hurts. Heck you didn’t even take EM which is one of the main synergistic traits with AH.

AH doesn’t help your group. At all. 0 amount. It is a purely selfish trait that greatly increases your survivability but please stop pretending that it’s anything else.

This is not a group support build. It’s a standard DPS/utility build using cleric’s gear, which is a waste. If you want group support, ditch valor go 0/15/0/30/5 minimum with 20 points to spend elsewhere. Also, magi gear is going to be far superior to cleric’s because you damage will be mediocre/bad no matter what so you should get lots of crit so that you can proc more vigor (for selfless daring) and might (empowered might).

The rune choice is also very bad imo. Boon duration is so much more useful and supportive.

Archer.1658:

Food was never ment to have builds built around it lol.

Then they shouldn’t have such OP food, but they do.

I think you could do well with a crit + heal power 1h build. Damage would be decent, you would add lots of might stacks to your group, and you would maximize dodging which is the only ability that scales really well with heal power.

killcannon.2576:

On the reverse side of this you have warriors soloing AC. You think a strong aoe class could clear a Dungeon?

In PvE, Warrior is a strong AoE class.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Those 20 odd players are idiots, they deserved to be beaten. The 70 (lol) on their other video are even worse.

Sadly it seems those sheep are the people this game is being balanced around.

Yea it should be balanced to maximize hardcore players’ ability to exploit abilities. If you want that go back to whatever dead PvP game that you already ruined.

AoE AND teamwork, obviously. Just because you use teamwork doesn’t mean what you’re doing isn’t unbalanced.

CrassBippy.4619:

it hasn’t changed, it just sometimes won’t remove cripple AND another cond. depends on what order the cond are in. Sometimes removed both, sometimes doesnt

It only removes both if the other condition is bleed, because the priority for conversion is bleed → cripple → immobilize → the actually bad conditions.

Twill.6217:

here’s how i get “perma” swiftness for traveling with my ordinary dungeoning gear/traits:

10 points in Virtues
2x Runes of Water
2x Runes of Monk
Staff skill 3
Reatreat
Save Yourselves
Superior Aria

result: 60 sec of swiftness and cooldowns refresh faster then it runs out.

enjoy.

All that and you still have a minor gap when you are waiting on symbol pulse. Why bother with all the runes when you’re going to use staff + 2 shouts + traits?

Raenir.9147:

Yaki.9563:

Indure.5410:

Warriors are the best damage dealers period, but there has been quite a lot of research on the subject by people much smarter than me and the Guardian is not that far behind. Like 5% behind. Just because you can do 17K burst damage on your warrior and only 3K on your guardian does not mean the Guardian does lower DPS. From what I’ve seen, when you factor in all the numbers over a LONG period of time the Guardian’s GS can output slightly lower damage numbers to a warriors.

I’d like to see this “research” because it’s a lot more than 5%.

Guardian may be better than other classes (or not) but it’s far behind Warrior.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/70080-guardian-effective-dps-tests/

This doesn’t match up at all with my testing on target dummies in the Mists. Number crunching may be fun to do when there’s no way to test in game, but there is.

Harbinger.8637:

There are so many good traits it’s ridiculous.

There’s really only one good trait, but it’s so OP that it makes it worth spending 30 points for. There are some ok traits but it’s no Honor line.

Guardian is much stronger than Warrior in many ways. Both classes are at the top of the food chain so I don’t think we have any room for complaint in terms of power and usefulness, even if you do find Warriors better (really, they aren’t).

Bullfrog.1324:

Zeefa.3915:

There is no title for completing all puzzles, because it is not all puzzles. There will without a doubt be added more.

There’s a title for world completion, and they’ll no doubt be adding more

And they already have. Southsun Cove is not part of world completion.

Judge Banks.9018:

260 Selfless daring with 100% vigor, I take it
43 Rune of Water at shelter cooldown
130 Orb of Light
292 Regen at 12 seconds which most people aren’t getting
220 Healing symbols which most people aren’t standing in
50 Activating Resolve
162 If battle Presence worked it doesn’t
57 Empower
122 Sigil of Water you overestimate the proc rate

Warrior
384 Compassionate Banner (Still not sure about coefficients and only divided by 10 when in reality it’d be by 11 for cast time)
316 Healing per second with (FGJ)(OMM)(Shake) you can only have 2 shouts if you have a banner
292 Regen at 5 seconds 100% uptime, unlike Guardian’s

Just healing per second numbers of skills at 1300 healing. Gonna go putz around in the mist see if I can figure out the banner heal.

Guardian has a lot more heal abilities but most of them scale for crap and many require some sacrifice in other areas for minimal healing gain.

swiftpaw.6397:

alcopaul.2156:

Brutaly.6257:

alcopaul.2156:

i think im in a room full of GS guardians with berserker’s armor who don’t know what the hell are they talking about.

Or full with people that realize that you can actually support just as well in Berserker with a GS and you arent forced to gimp the dps just because you support your team.

Add up the damage of 5 people with +15 stacks of might versus a single chop from a Twilight. and imagine that 2 of the 5 people are zerker warriors with maxed stack of might, thanks to the +15 stacks of might from the support guardian.

Empowering Might trait + Binding Blade and GS Aoe= constant 10 + might stacks for my party and I actually do damage, I’d say that gives that silly leaf blower staff a run for your money.

By constant you mean the few fights when all mobs are conveniently packed together and then only for a few seconds, right?

Amins.3710:

Valor = Tank line? Your kidding, right?

% Crit Dmg… yep, that’s tank.
5% of Toughness = Crit %… yep, tank there too
Glacia Heart / Purity = yep, more tanky stuff there..

Oh, I won’t even go on about Meditations…

The only “Tanky” aspect of the build is the 300 Toughness and if you spec into Mace/Shield or are building a AH build focused around Healing / Toughness.

But it is in no way “The” Tank line.

/boggle

LOL keep deluding yourself just so you can get AH. Not that it isn’t worth tossing away 30 points for that OP trait, but don’t pretend that you’re getting much else besides for DPS.

Indure.5410:

Warriors are the best damage dealers period, but there has been quite a lot of research on the subject by people much smarter than me and the Guardian is not that far behind. Like 5% behind. Just because you can do 17K burst damage on your warrior and only 3K on your guardian does not mean the Guardian does lower DPS. From what I’ve seen, when you factor in all the numbers over a LONG period of time the Guardian’s GS can output slightly lower damage numbers to a warriors.

I’d like to see this “research” because it’s a lot more than 5%.

Guardian may be better than other classes (or not) but it’s far behind Warrior.

Bas.8976:

Yaki.9563:

Bas.8976:

Yaki.9563:

Bas.8976:

Equip staff. Use the symbol (3), after you get the Swiftness buff use Retreat, and when your boon ends, use staff skill 3 again, followed by Save yourselves! When that Swiftness comes to an end, your Retreat should be recharged. Rinse, repeat, perma swiftness.

Since symbol swiftness doesn’t stack with other swiftness, this is pretty clunky.

You can get permanent swiftness without staff but you need to stack boon duration, and much of it will only apply to you rather than the surrounding players/npcs.

As Brutaly already wrote, if you apply the shout’s buff after getting the buff from the staff symbol, they will stack.

What I meant is that you have to wait for your swiftness to end to get the buff from the Symbol, meaning you will never truly have 100% swiftness as there will be a guaranteed gap in there.

If you really count 3/4 of a second (Symbol of Swiftness) as a “gap” then that’s just silly – the method is as close to perma 33% boost as it gets and arguing semantics here is just nit-picking

No it’s not, because no matter how much +duration you get you HAVE to cast the symbol at a given time and you will ALWAYS have a gap. Compare this to getting swiftness from other sources, where you can afford a bit of overlap and have flexibility to miss the button press by a second or two and still maintain permanent swiftness.

On my warrior, for example, I can get swiftness up to 2+ minute duration because there is an 5-10 second overlap in the durations of my swiftness skills. I’m not forced to perpetually hit the button at the exact right time in order to maintain my swiftness, and it truly is permanent. As guardian your swiftness buff is always dropping and there is always a gap in the buff the size of which depends on how perfectly you are timing your casting.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

I still wouldn’t call the addition healing power a good scaling though. It’s still not a great thing to max out on Guardians, save maybe for the Healway build.

There’s nothing special about the Healway build that makes it any different for healing power than any other build that maximizes it.

Champions are there for group events. You shouldn’t be able to solo them, that’s the point.

It’s only worth it if you are going to stack it to max and build around Selfless Daring (lots of vigor and sigils of energy). Everything else scales so horribly it’s a waste if you aren’t maximizing your dodges.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Xaraxus.2960:

@lcc: Looks like you’ve never played an Engineer.
After Super Elixier got nerfed again, the heals from a Guardian are far superior.

Everything you posted scales horribly with +heal when compared to Guardian abilities. I can easily outheal anything my Engineer can do just by dodging around with my Guardian.

ermm, it’s my understanding that +heal doesn’t scale with Guardians either….

Except for Selfless Daring.

Bas.8976:

Yaki.9563:

Bas.8976:

Equip staff. Use the symbol (3), after you get the Swiftness buff use Retreat, and when your boon ends, use staff skill 3 again, followed by Save yourselves! When that Swiftness comes to an end, your Retreat should be recharged. Rinse, repeat, perma swiftness.

Since symbol swiftness doesn’t stack with other swiftness, this is pretty clunky.

You can get permanent swiftness without staff but you need to stack boon duration, and much of it will only apply to you rather than the surrounding players/npcs.

As Brutaly already wrote, if you apply the shout’s buff after getting the buff from the staff symbol, they will stack.

What I meant is that you have to wait for your swiftness to end to get the buff from the Symbol, meaning you will never truly have 100% swiftness as there will be a guaranteed gap in there.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

But we’re not in other games. We’re in this game. If I want to be a support build, it’s stupid to do it on anything but the guardian. If I want damage, it’s stupid to be anything but the warrior.

You’re right, we aren’t in other games. This game doesn’t require a support role. You can try and mash Guardian into it and not be completely ineffective but it’s still not better than using your Guardian to DPS. You are making the assumption that having a “healer” is necessary or even desirable, which it’s not.

Sigil of Perception increases your precision. You should see your precision is higher than before.

Not sure about the other one.

Bas.8976:

Equip staff. Use the symbol (3), after you get the Swiftness buff use Retreat, and when your boon ends, use staff skill 3 again, followed by Save yourselves! When that Swiftness comes to an end, your Retreat should be recharged. Rinse, repeat, perma swiftness.

Since symbol swiftness doesn’t stack with other swiftness, this is pretty clunky.

You can get permanent swiftness without staff but you need to stack boon duration, and much of it will only apply to you rather than the surrounding players/npcs.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Seriously. I’ve been playing engineer and I’ve been trying to make a good support build, but then I look at the crazy healing that this class can do and I wonder why I would even bother! I thought the whole point of this game was to NOT have a healer class. I thought the point was that ANY class can support, CC and damage just as well as any other. The difference was that each does it in their own way. Their own play style.

Am I missing something here? If this game is trying to kill the trinity, why is part of the trinity still here?

You greatly overestimate Guardian healing. It may be better than Engineer healing, but it’s still far, far, far below that of a healer in other games, Monk included.

Healers in other games heal like Guardians would if they had their Elite skill on 100% of the time. Probably even better than that.

Nier.2478:

I don’t see where this bug is coming from. Last time I checked, the Warhorn trait was working fine.

The issue is twofold:

1. The priority system seems to convert the weakest conditions first. So a bleed and snares will get converted before poison or weakness or confusion.

2. The number 4 skill removes movement impairing effects on its own without the trait. With the trait, it converts the movement impairing effect to a boon (this seems to be #1 on the priority list) first so the effect of the actual ability goes wasted. So if you’ve got 5 conditions on you, one of which is a snare, it will just remove the snare and you’ll be left with the other 4 conditions…basically the same as if you didn’t have the trait at all (yay I got 5s of swiftness! not).

This is a big problem because bleeds and snares are very abundant in PvE and basically cover up the harmful conditions. The most obvious example that comes to mind is fighting spiders, where you pretty much have to time both skills so that you can remove the snare, then the poison or else as soon as you remove the snare it will get reapplied and the poison will never be removed. The way it should work with the #4 skill is that the snare gets removed by the skill and the trait converts the poison to regen.

LOL @ the people who don’t understand probability, yet reference it. No, 20% doesn’t mean a guarantee of 1 per 5 attempts but it does mean an average of 1 per 5 attempts. That means that while over the short term you may get unlucky (or lucky) in the long run you will get an exotic 1/5 of the time. Considering how many attempts it takes to get the precursor, you should be pretty darn close to the average.

The flaw in the OP’s post isn’t the probability part of it, it’s in a) calculating the value of the exotic and b) assuming that the MF returns 20% of rares as exotics. You don’t make 4g from selling an exotic and the 20% figure is just an estimate from the wiki. It could easily only be 15% or less.

Alarox.4590:

JaNordy.6149:

Alarox.4590:

JaNordy.6149:

Actual speed boost when you lay it down, no missing and running over several times; fix stacking and resetting bug for speed boost

Being unable to get more Swiftness when you run over it with Swiftness already applied is intended. Otherwise, you could run back and forth over it per tick and get ridiculous amounts of Swiftness, and it would be incredibly overpowered in comparison to skills like Retreat which aren’t GTAoE but have the capacity to add swiftness.

Although the resetting bug needs to be fixed.

You must be misunderstanding what I said. There is a problem where you lay down Staff 3 and go run over it, and nothing happens. You gotta run back over it to even get buff working. Then another problem, when you have speed already applied and you used Staff 3, it does not add that properly to current duration. There is then also the bug that resets speed, say 20 secs of swiftness, use Staff 3, suddenly your swiftness hits 2 second mark and just vanishes.

I understand what you’re saying perfectly fine.

Your first problem is that you’re stepping on it between pulses. Your second problem is not a bug, it’s an intended aspect of GTAoE abilities that apply boons. Your third problem is an actual bug that needs to be fixed.

You sure about that? The mace symbol applies 1s duration regen, so you’re saying it is completely worthless and doesn’t extend regen duration to people who already have it?

It’s been this way for at least a month.

The bigger issue imo is that the 4 skill should remove movement impairing effects and then convert a condition. Instead it uses the condition removal to remove the movement impairing effect…

As others have said, Forceful Greatsword. It’s the slightly less OP version of Guardian’s EM, yet only useful for GS…so guess what weapon is best for Warrior (PvE at least). That trait single-handedly determines what weapon Warrior should use.

Zumos.2056:

Guardians have a lot more dps than ppl seem to know. Maybe this is because most guardians do not often go full dps. But hammer/GS does insane damage.

Look at this video if you want to see it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdJgVZ4eAUQ

(It’s not my video btw)

Warrior still does significantly more damage.

Go out to the target dummies in the Mists in full berserker gear with both classes and the difference is huge, though it’s pretty much all due to 100 blades.

ShuYue.9345:

Or there is no point for a warrior to play support?

You can play support without relying on ineffective healing power. Shouts can heal, remove conditions, and buff your allies. Warhorn can remove conditions, weaken the enemy, and buff allies with vigor (more dodging = good). Banners can buff and provide regen. Most of those things are not heals.

molepunch.5673:

As a Cleric-geared Shout Warrior, I keep glass cannons up and buff their DPS via bosons and conditions in PvE. In WvW I push the battle lines forward, play decoy, and rez downed allies even when focused.

You accomplish a lot through others. It’s not useless at all. If I solo a GS is enough.

Pray tell what DPS boons do you offer that aren’t given by every other warrior spec? All your cleric gear does is increase the heals of your shouts and that’s it. That is a huge gear investment for not a whole lot of return. It’s not like a Guardian which has a bajillion different heals that benefit.

Grok Krog.9581:

I’ve recently started changing from full Soldier’s gear to Cleric’s. Currently have Masterwork Sapphire jewelery and a Magi’s Spineguard (rare). I’d get Cleric’s armor now but I’m saving up for my Legendary. I really like it so far, when I get my armor my Banner’s regeneration should heal for about 300 and I’ll be getting about 2250 health every 3 seconds from all my regen stuff (Healing signet, Adrenal Health, Regeneration) if I can get 25 stacks of healing power. I’ve lost a couple thousand health but I haven’t noticed a drop in survivability, if not being more durable. Note: I only PvE

Soldier’s gear is even worse than Cleric’s. That doesn’t make Cleric’s good. If all you’re trying to do is survive you’re nearly dead weight to your team.

There aren’t any. If you gear and trait for survivability, you have to give some of that up to gain damage.

Use a mix of Knight’s and Soldiers then.

You can get armor from places other than AC. Sorrow’s Embrace and Arah have the Tou/Pow/Pre layout on armor.

Knights or Berserkers. Soldiers is for…going slow. Magi’s is for pure healing build that wants crit.

Barricade.3210:

Running pure boon guardian is interesting but it’s not that good, it’ll compromise relevant stats you’ll be needing for the duration of the game. I have tested running a 101% boonduration guardian and successfully use it on fractals but i notice that the damage output and the survivability dropped a lot from my previous builds. I must say running at 70% boon duration would be enough and thats all what the team needs.

Boon duration is good until it has no effect. For example, if you maintain 100% protection uptime with 50% boon duration, any more than that has no effect on protection. For might stacks, etc. this is not going to be the case unless you have other classes building stacks as well, but it is for protection, regeneration, fury, swiftness, and other buffs that don’t stack but simply extend duration.

I suspect your build felt weak because you gave up stats on gear for boon duration. That’s not worth it as the values are too small. It is, however, a good deal on runes and food with the right build.