Why on earth does Guardian need spirit weapons and conditions to be good? It’s like a Warrior crying that their physical skills don’t do enough damage so their class sucks or that they can’t stack healing power and be useful.
Let me guess, you’re going to switch to warrior and play the one PvE build they have yet somehow not complain about it. lulz
Same reason the frost gorge train was nerfed, Anet wants you buying gold with your credit card, not earning it in-game.
Or maybe because the whole champ train gimmick was stupid gameplay?
“Boss chests in dungeons are now limited to once a day. Champion loot bags and dungeon tokens from the bosses themselves will not be limited in this way.”
What problem did this fix? Why would you punish somebody (more) for being the fifth in a run to help their guildie fill out a dungeon run that they’ve already done once that reset cycle?
Because some players on this forum and likely in the game take it upon themselves to make it their business how other people play the game or make money. It apparently bothers them if you do it a certain way they do not want you to.
I assume it was, like many other things in this patch, meant to slow down the amount of gold players are making per day.
This game is getting more and more disney land themepark by every update, can’t wait for Arch Age…
Limiting gold income leads to higher gem sales, which is all they kittening care about.
Not true. Less gold earned means less inflation meaning less gold required to buy the items you want. The only people this really hurts are the people who spend significant time using this specific method to get gold.
And god forbid anyone spend some real money on a f2p game.
If it takes you a week to get 100 gold in gw2 you’re either playing 1/2 hours a day and afking half of that time or you’re not doing anything besides sitting in town.
I just sold the leftover materials from making my 2nd set of ascended armor for my warrior/materials I gathered for over 80 gold just yesterday. If I can make roughly 15g a day while actually playing (not sitting in town) in a matter of an hour and a half you’re doing it wrong. You can get 3g a day from ac 1/3 and that takes you 15/20 minutes depending on your group.
LOL no. Even with your exaggerated numbers and somehow getting to run AC 1/3 5 times, you’d still take over 1 1/2 hours to farm that 15g. “Normal play” (doing daily, running a dungeon or two, maybe fractals) won’t get you anywhere close to that.
So your guide is to farm just like everyone has been farming for the last year? How groundbreaking….
Before this could possibly be done with one or two non-berserkers in the group. If you nerf the berserker meta all you do is make that group want more berserkers in the group.
They always wanted more berserkers in the group. Always. The same people who you think are going to demand all berserker gear were demanding all berserker gear before, because it made the dungeon runs faster and that’s all that matters to them. Again, there is not some magical amount of DPS that is “enough” and after that you can have sub-standard DPS builds.
You will need full berserker gear after patch,before you could till do viable damage with just the trinkets(you lose 10% if full zerg other tanky builds is like -40-60% dps)
You have no idea what you’re talking about. If you only wore berserker trinkets pre-patch you will lose less DPS than a berserker build. Meaning the gap between your set and berserker will decrease. LOL -40-60%…
Did you calculate the amount of crit damage loss of trinkets compared to armor? Builds who had zerker trinkets only will lose a greater % of thier crit damage than a full zerk build. Rings get a 45% nerf to crit damage, earrings get a 43% nerf, amulet gets a 38% nerf to crit damage and the back piece gets a 54% nerf to crit damage. If you average it out it is roughly 45% (give or take a couple % since I didn’t calculate the ratio for each trinket individually).
Helm actually gets a 13% increase in crit damage, coat loses 4%, there rest gets a 17% nerf. If you average it out you lose roughly 12.5% from you armor. (Same as above, I didn’t calculate to ratio of each piece individually.)
Except you if you have no crit damage on your armor in the first place, you lose no crit damage from those pieces. You can’t only average the trinkets and say that’s your crit damage loss. Not only that, what I quoted said 40-50% dps loss. Not 40-50% crit damage stat loss (which isn’t even 40-50% crit damage loss).
A kittened off customer base and even more need to have 5 berserker groups to make up for the dps loss.
This makes no sense. There is no more need than before. You act as if there’s some kind of magical time limit to a dungeon run where anything faster is pointless and anything less is horrible.
Before patch: “Hey guys we’re running this dungeon with 3 full berserker chars in 15 mins, should we bother getting 2 more berserkers?” “Nah, why bother going faster than 15 mins.”
After patch: “Hey guys we’re running this dungeon with 3 full berserker chars in 16 mins, should we bother getting 2 more berserkers?” “Heck yea, we’re kitten if we don’t do this 1 minute faster!!”
You will need full berserker gear after patch,before you could till do viable damage with just the trinkets(you lose 10% if full zerg other tanky builds is like -40-60% dps)
You have no idea what you’re talking about. If you only wore berserker trinkets pre-patch you will lose less DPS than a berserker build. Meaning the gap between your set and berserker will decrease. LOL -40-60%…
I havent done any math (frankly because i dont know how) but it just seems logical that with the nerf to crit dmg semi tanky/semi dps builds will fall even more short
Unless all the DPS came from crit damage then the gap will close. For example, if you were idiotically wearing full soldier’s your DPS would be exactly the same while berserker DPS would drop. Same with knight’s. The only set that gets hit harder than berserker is celestial, but who’s wearing that?
Adding up the numbers including ferocity, celestial adds up an extra 1000.
Am too lazy right now to get the actual numbers or source but its in the dulfy website. Berzerker is 900ish power 650ish ferocity and precision totaling to 2200ish.
Celestial have 400ish spread out to 8 traits like power healinh ferocity etc etc etc totaling to 3200ish.If we can build an all in one warrior build to benefit from all stats, it may become something…or nothing.
But if you weight the stats by their usefulness, celestial falls far behind. Even for the most versatile builds it’s inferior. If you can get away with wearing berserker, then you’ve already got 1200 stats wasted on celestial (vit/tou/hp). Even in the best of cases not all the stats have equal value.
If those numbers are true why would you go anything other than hammer in PvE? 5% DPS loss for permanent protection? Yes please.
Edit: and extra defensive stats, boon duration, and group support…
Edit2: Also, lol @ celestial gear beating soldiers and knights armor. Goes to show how broken the crit damage stat was.
because you don’t need protection in most dungeons.
You also don’t need 5% more damage. I’m pretty sure that no matter how much you want to downplay 30% damage reduction to your entire party + 200 extra vitality + slightly longer duration on boons and shorter virtue recharge that even if it is only rarely useful it is still an overall greater benefit than that miniscule damage increase.
If your dungeon run takes 15 minutes and you’re actually fighting (instead of running in order to skip mobs etc.) 50% of the time, the extra damage is going to reduce the length of your run by…OMG 4.5 seconds!
A low percent of an already low number yields obscenely low results. The only way celestial will be usable in any builds is to up that number considerably. Perhaps 20% is extreme, but 6% is extremely low… But as it’s a bit of a pain to get, shouldn’t it actually be worth getting?
I personally feel that Celestial gear should be the “norm”. It should be the best set and the other sets should be just slightly better at certain niche roles. Berserker shouldn’t be double the damage of Celestial, it should be maybe 20% more damage. Celestial is a) the hardest set to obtain and b) supports the most diverse playstyles. Both of those are excellent reasons for it to be the best all-around set in the game. Instead it’s one of the worst overall sets in the game. Heck, its DPS is closer to Cleric’s gear than it is to Berserker gear.
Would you wear celestial after the “fix” as is currently suggested Nike?
Absolutely. I don’t equip Celestial on my ‘primary damage dealers’ because outside of certain auto-crit builds its a terrible choice for DPS. But on several of my support and bunker character I have Celestial because no matter how much you might like to contribute via non-DPS activities you are still ultimately going to have to pitch some damage too. Celestial has value putting slightly larger teeth on a bunker or healer and this change is going to make it even better for those purposes because they probably had pretty mediocre Precision/Crit chance and couldn’t especially leverage the high crit damage bonus anyway. Now Celestial will be giving better Power and Precision, while also giving better survivability traits and Healing power at the cost of the stat that gave you the least return on your investment.
But wearing Celestial your healing and survivability suck just as much as your DPS. It’s not like Celestial has much healing power or vit/tou. It has just as low an amount of those stats as it does of DPS stats.
2. It’s a hard sell to convince someone that a family of gear that is balanced now will be completely crap at everything AFTER it gets a 6% stat increase.
It’s not balanced now. It’s crap now, but not utter crap because it happens to have a normal amount of the best DPS stat in the game. Nerf that stat and 6% to the others is laughable compensation. It will become completely worthless.
20% stat increase and we might see some use for it.
If those numbers are true why would you go anything other than hammer in PvE? 5% DPS loss for permanent protection? Yes please.
Edit: and extra defensive stats, boon duration, and group support…
Edit2: Also, lol @ celestial gear beating soldiers and knights armor. Goes to show how broken the crit damage stat was.
(edited by Yaki.9563)
I just had to post to laugh at the guy that thinks 10% damage reduction to one warrior means 100% damage reduction if there are 10 warriors. I also want to laugh at the guy in the other thread who admitted that 10% attack speed would add on average 10% more auto-attack damage, but still claimed that most of the time it would be less and only sometimes 10%.
Why do these people even bother? Just admit you have no math skills and keep to stuff you actually understand.
People didn’t even bother with warhorn when it removed 2 conditions.
PS: OFC all this is for hardcore players, nabs that haven’t fought good player’s wouldn’t understand.
Forget about fighting good players, what about people like you who aren’t good players?
Now if only they would make mats for 1h cost half as much and 1h weapons have twice the drop rate.
Probably just make toughness/vitality scale better and condition damage/healing power better
That wouldn’t change a thing and would actually make WvW even more unbalanced.
Not if they made toughness reduce condition damage as well.
You should get hit regardless of whether it removes the condition, as you are using an ability which triggers the confusion. So even if it prioritized confusion first, you would still take damage from it.
condi removing skills do the removing first, then the skill. for instance, if you use shake it off with just confusion on you, you dont take any confusion damage.
Interesting that it works that way, but it shouldn’t. Does Cleansing Ire do the same thing? For example you are blinded and use Eviscerate.
no, because your adrenaline is used up (and thus cleansed) after you do the damage. this is done because it synergies with traits that give you buffs with full adrenaline, so you keep those buffs for the burst skill.
this also lets you keep your adrenaline if you dont actually hit your target.
Doesn’t it trigger the cooldown for the burst skill though?
If you are blinded, then Eviscerate will miss and Cleansing Ire will not go off. You have to hit for it to work. The only attack that guarantees it lands is Combustive shot since its a ground targeted spell.
That mechanic works differently then. You’d think that either the skill would activate, then you’d remove the conditions (like CI) or you would remove the conditions, then activate the skill (like QB). That both work differently is odd.
Quick Breathing is supposed to remove the strongest damage condition on you, but it overlooks Confusion completely and will not remove it unless it is the absolute last condition to be removed over anything else.
Where do you get that it’s supposed to remove the strongest condition? If they wanted it to be that way they would have programmed it to do so.
Also, almost no one uses Quick Breathing. Even when it removed 2 conditions no one used it (making it even more absurd that they fixed the bug rather than change the skill to stay at 2 conditions). It took a good month+ for people to figure out that it was bugged and even when I posted about it no one believed it or bothered to try it out. In other words: no one cares about warhorn & QB.
(edited by Yaki.9563)
You should get hit regardless of whether it removes the condition, as you are using an ability which triggers the confusion. So even if it prioritized confusion first, you would still take damage from it.
condi removing skills do the removing first, then the skill. for instance, if you use shake it off with just confusion on you, you dont take any confusion damage.
Interesting that it works that way, but it shouldn’t. Does Cleansing Ire do the same thing? For example you are blinded and use Eviscerate.
You should get hit regardless of whether it removes the condition, as you are using an ability which triggers the confusion. So even if it prioritized confusion first, you would still take damage from it.
enemies cast bars were already in GW1 … no idea why they didn’t added this in GW2.
Extremely blatant animations aren’t enough?
That’s your answer right there. Every boss basically does this…
Which does 5% of your hp in damage. Then 5s later he twiddles his thumbs behind his back and does 150% of your hp in damage.
Extremely blatant animations aren’t enough?
You clearly aren’t playing GW2.
If not HS then what exactly was it that buffed warriors up so much in the same patch that the HS changes came about? Because they went from being decent to being awesome with that one patch. I’m guessing it’s actually HS and everyone who says otherwise is in denial.
Why does anyone care about Lupi? Most worthless encounter in the game that players wave around to enhance their kitten. He’s just a gimmick target dummy. Want to display your zerker skill prowess? Solo some boss with attacks that aren’t slow and predictable and 100% avoidable in a wide open area with plenty of room to dodge around.
If you’re dying regularly using 30/25/0/0/15 + Healing Signet, then the problem isn’t the build, it’s the player.
Duh, that’s what he said in the very first sentence.
It stacks with condition duration additively. So someone with 50% condition duration offensively would have their conditions be reduced by 53% (if you have 103% reduction). 100% +duration completely negates 100% -duration. They are not calculated separately.
so i can tell only one thing. The other day I was playing with some random ppl lvl 26 or 29 fractal I dont remember exactly now. We were doing that lava fractal with grawls. We couldnt kill the boss at the end, so i swithed to Soldier/Cleric guardian I have. We made it on the first try, it took like 5-10 mins. Nobody was complaining about my cleric gear.
Guardian is op on the Legendary Grawl because of projectile reflects/blocks. It’s probably the fact that you brought in a guardian that helped, any guard build has reflects.
Or maybe also that heals are great in that fight since your group takes lots of damage from the adds but no big 1-shot hits.
You could probably conjure up some kind of viable healing build but it’s the fact that people use AH and ignore damage multipliers as well. In good parties anything but zerker is not needed. But in pugs you could probably mix some zerker with some healing with battle presence ect and be useful (picking up damage multipliers aka 10% while endurance not full). But some guards just stick to GS with cleric gear and think they are useful using AH
What skills/traits are most players using primarily for healing?
I don’t know about most people but I run 10/0/0/30/30 Hammer/Mace+x. SYG, PF, and third utility is a wildcard for whatever situation.
Then you don’t have 70% of the dps of a zerker build and you also don’t have the healing of a heal build. Worst of both worlds.
Yaki, a cleric with a spec like 20.0.0.30.20 won’t even hit half the damage a zerker 10.30.0.5.25 will bring. The zerker will bring a lot more than half of the survivability the cleric brings though, simply through reflects, aegis, virtues, conditions removal and blinds. The healing really is the smallest part of our group support.
But damage rarely determines success of failure of an encounter, only the speed of the run. Going cleric’s means your run is going to be slightly slower but you will tend to be more successful. This really only applies to PUGs since everyone else is so pro that they never make mistakes, exploit every advantage, and optimize their group and it’s all about getting the job done quickly.
Can’t cleric gear users gain access to blinds, vulnerability and damage modifiers too?
In order to trait to get those damage modifiers you’re gimping your build. Even though the build is suboptimal in PvE the trait synergy still makes sense. link to build
Those points in valor are in no way the core of the build. They are fluff. If blind/vuln on virtue use is so great, they can be easily ditched for that instead. However, people realize that blind/vuln on virtue use is only good on melee trash mobs so they don’t bother.
I’m sorry but it’s the fact that clerics think they are helping people when they are actually gimping everyone else in the groups survival and taking forever to do anything
You’re not only sorry, you’re wrong. Cleric’s increases everyone’s survival. It just doesn’t matter because survival is not an issue in the first place so all that matters is how fast your run is.
And please don’t bother with the “shorter fights mean less errors” argument. If your group is making so many errors that a 20% longer fight means they’ll make one that wipes the group, there are bigger issues than someone in cleric’s gear.
The fact of the matter is that whenever you have someone in full clerics gear trying to help “group” survivability is a problem with the build that accompanies it. Most guards that run clerics gear in dungeons also run 30 into valor which is by far doing nothing at all to help group survivability. Sure maybe if they run battle presence AND absolute resolution they are getting somewhere, however this is usually not the case… at all. Zerker dps guardians not only never touch valor they are bringing the same boons but more blinds more vulnerability and have better damage modifiers….
Also having a Cleric’s person can screw with mobs aggro tables when you run a group of full zerkers the bosses rotate who they are aggroed on. IF the boss aggros on the person doing the highest DPS then it is one more person they completely ignore there by limiting who they aggor on. If the boss aggros on toughness then that cleric person usually winds up dead on the floor.
So all in all go zerk or knights/zerk combo. Cleric’s is useless in dungeons. i can understand adjusting your BUILD, but your gear should never be cleric guard in dungeons.
In the first paragraph you say the problem is the build.
Then in the last you say go ahead and change your build, but it’s the gear….
Blinds/vuln spam only works on trash. You don’t blind or add any more vuln than any other build when fighting a boss because your virtues never reset. You can easily go cleric’s gear and have a supportive build while still being able to apply just as much blind/vuln as a full DPS spec. It only takes 15 in Radiance.
Also, what cleric’s build uses 30 in valor? You basically cherry picked some horrible build. I can do the same thing: DPS Guardians go 30/0/30/10/0 therefore berserker guards suck. 30 Honor and 20 Virtues is a minimum for cleric’s builds so that leaves at most 20 for Valor. Huh, just enough to put 15 into Radiance for the blind/vuln spam if I wanted it.
I’m sorry but it’s the fact that clerics think they are helping people when they are actually gimping everyone else in the groups survival and taking forever to do anything
You’re not only sorry, you’re wrong. Cleric’s increases everyone’s survival. It just doesn’t matter because survival is not an issue in the first place so all that matters is how fast your run is.
And please don’t bother with the “shorter fights mean less errors” argument. If your group is making so many errors that a 20% longer fight means they’ll make one that wipes the group, there are bigger issues than someone in cleric’s gear.
I don’t understand Lupi kill videos. Is he some kind of test dummy DPS test? He certainly seems to take no skill, judging by the video.
Why don’t you try it for yourself and tell us how easy it is to replicate that video?
I’ll give you some friendly advice: take off your Clerics gear for it or else phase three will be really long.
Hahaha so defensive.
You pressed 8 buttons the entire fight, didn’t move an inch, and never dodged. I don’t know what’s more sad, that you think skill means wearing the right set of gear or that it means autoattacking for 40s and pressing one reflect button to cheese an encounter.
There’s no skill in what you did. If you want to show some skill, do as you suggest and lets see a video of you soloing him wearing cleric’s and no reflect.
(edited by Yaki.9563)
A few days ago i crushed ( and i really mean crushed ) 2 players in WvW in a 2 v 1. As a warrior.
You’re going to start screaming " SEE? OP WAR IS OP – you’ve agreed to it" .
Except one of them was also a warrior. And the other a thief.
This is flawed reasoning. There are plenty of reasons that the other warrior was inferior to you. I would argue that your example is actually pretty good evidence that warrior is OP, because the more OP warrior is the less relevant the thief is in your warrior vs. warrior battle. Your example has as much relevance to warrior not being OP as saying that you won a 1v1 vs. another warrior. You beat a warrior with your warrior, so thus warrior can’t be OP…that’s not logical at all.
So the strategy is..whine and its will get nerfed.. Now i know what ill be doing on class subforums and spvp. I actually wonder what goes to get nerfed, if its UF its can hurt axe/sword+shield power builds.
For me its sound like UW getting moved to GM making it a worthless trait.
You’re probably too blinded by your Warrior playing delusions to think straight, but people tend to “whine” about what is OP.
Its a decent option for zerg and group play if you are tank support build. Heals others like Healing breeze with condi removal and it can do it quicker on a lower cool down. Weak self heal, but I rarely use my heal in full support gear.
It doesn’t heal others.
I don’t understand Lupi kill videos. Is he some kind of test dummy DPS test? He certainly seems to take no skill, judging by the video.
The difference between healing signet and healing surge is not that great.
HS: Slightly less than 400/sec
Healing Surge: 330/sec
The big difference is that signet requires no activation and is always on. Unless you use healing surge immediately off cooldown every time, it’s going to be much worse. It also requires full adrenaline to heal for that much, which is unlikely.
On the other hand, in a short fight healing surge has a big advantage as you can use it nearly immediately. For example if you use it 10s into the fight, you’ve effectively done 9800 healing vs. just 3900 healing from signet. It doesn’t take that long for signet to pull ahead though, maybe a minute or two.
It’s pretty clear to me (as a warrior) that signet is stupid. It heals for too much as a passive and the active is worthless. That’s not how signets are supposed to work.
They dont necessarily have to nerf the class. They could just make the other classes stronger so that they are as viable as the warrior. AS of now in tPvP almost every match is either a full team of warriors vs warriors, or warriors/mesmers with the occasional necro.
May as well call the game Warriors vs Mesmers rather then Guild wars
I agree with you – other classes might needs a buff. But warriors are fine where they are. They are good overall – in most situations – but there is not one particular thing that they excel at – other classes outperform them at specific tasks.
Required for dungeon runs. Great WvW roamers, great WvW group play, good in PvP. If you’re average or above in every facet of the game then you’re not “fine”.
There are no dungeon runs that REQUIRE warriors.
They are required if you want to maximize party DPS. You can slog through a dungeon with any group all using cleric’s gear but why would you? So in the context of relative performance, they are “required”.
Good idea. They never should have buffed the passive so much but should have given the active some kind of secondary effect instead.
They dont necessarily have to nerf the class. They could just make the other classes stronger so that they are as viable as the warrior. AS of now in tPvP almost every match is either a full team of warriors vs warriors, or warriors/mesmers with the occasional necro.
May as well call the game Warriors vs Mesmers rather then Guild wars
I agree with you – other classes might needs a buff. But warriors are fine where they are. They are good overall – in most situations – but there is not one particular thing that they excel at – other classes outperform them at specific tasks.
Required for dungeon runs. Great WvW roamers, great WvW group play, good in PvP. If you’re average or above in every facet of the game then you’re not “fine”.
Pure bad design to make 1-shot mechanics that are expected to be dodged and are only telegraphed to the player via boss animations that are obscured by particle effects. It’s like they took 3 or 4 different things and made them into one extra bad recipe. Change any one of them and it would be fine.