Fastest lupi clear time recorded.
1 Thief, 1 Mesmer, 1 Warrior, and 2 ElementalistWhy the hell are you running a guardian in your group?
Thief and Elementalist have some of the top DPS in the game and add a hell of alot to the team besides that.
So you cherry pick 1% of the content to make it seem like alternate group comps are good. Who even does Lupi? Arah is irrelevant content to everyone except the kitteners.
I did Teq once. As soon as I realized I was just beating on a stationary object instead of an actual monster I decided not to go back again. Not fun, not interesting, loot is crap so why bother.
Because Zergs are easy in easy out type game play, you join when you want to get your loot (carrots) then leave when you feel like it, you don’t affect anyone else.
Raids require coordination, setting up, getting everyone online at the right times etc and can be huge hassles and commitments, not to mention massive dramas..
That’s my take on why the latter doesn’t work at least in GW2.
Lies. Look at WoW LFR system. Join, faceroll easy mode content, get loot.
You can join LFR for 5 mins and get loot? Including the VP which is the grind currency of WoW? Also in LFR you get to enjoy the pleasure of face-numbing trash before each boss. The joys!
Open world raids have been the only kind of raiding that has been any good, ever (ok I’ll admit I had a blast doing Karazhan 10-man, but that’s closer to a 5-man than the typical raiding monstrosity). The open world feels “real”. Instances feel fake. If GW2 was based around raiding for end-game loot I would not be playing.
The appeal to champ farming is that anyone can join. No pressure, no time commitment, it’s open world, etc.
Raids are for baddies who need 24 ppl to carry them because they can’t hack a regular 5-man instance. Devs love them because they only need to create 1/5 the content. That’s why WoW force-feeds them to you now.
Green plum wins the thread. +1000
That is why I laugh at people pretending they are hardcore skilled pve players and defend things like cleric/pvt in anything that’s not pug dungeons or average guild groups.
Most dungeon runs in the game are pug dungeons or average guild groups. By a huge margin.
I can’t even tell you how wrong you are. I have to build defense on my Guardian to keep bad berserkers like you from dying in dungeons and in major events like Teq. Apparently you don’t realize that guardians like me keep you alive while you repeatedly try and kill yourselves because you are the bad ones that do not know how to build a balance of Offensive and Defensive stats. The attack animations for PvE are clear, yes, but you’re going to run out of endurance one time or another. And what are you going to do when that happens? The answer is die. I prevent that from happening while doing decent damage, and my dps probably isn’t too much lower than yours.
No, you’re wrong. Watch any speed run from guilds like DnT, Define or rT, they all roll five zerkers.
And for when you run out of endurance, well you can either get an energy sigil for 50% endurance on swap or use one of your class’s defense skills. Mesmers have blurred frenzy, distortion, illusionary riposte and the scepter block. Warriors have shield block, sword block and endure pain. Guardians have virtue of courage, retreat and focus 5.
What actually happens is these zerkers drop because your DPS is trash (and so the room for error increases the longer the fight progresses) and now you go think zerkers are bad. Don’t worry, lots of people think that. They’re wrong, and you’re wrong but if it makes you feel good.
If you think guardian does good dmg then you’ve never played a warrior.
Guardians out-DPS warriors.
“Guardians out-DPS warriors”. That sentence right there shows your ignorance, and as such, discredits your entire post above that. You might as well not have even posted that for all the good it will do. Berserkers suck. End of story. I’d like to see a Teq fight with 100% berserkers. You would all be dead in less than 7 minutes, guaranteed. Anyway, I’m done here. I can see we won’t agree on anything within this section of the forum.
While I agree with you that the guy above doesn’t know what he’s talking about, I duno what you’re talking about either. I do fractal 48, and the new aether dungeon on my zerk warrior no problem.
All you need is 1 or 2 support guardians, you don’t need warriors in toughness/knights gear when you’ve got that. It would be a waste of DPS.
I do have a toughness/vitality/power set when I’m against non-crit enemies like teq, so I don’t see what your point is. If you’re playing a warrior and you aren’t in zerk gear, you’re doing it wrong.
I’m talking about the more difficult content like Teq, dungeons, and Fractals here. And let me clarify… when I talk about berserkers sucking for this content, I’m talking about them sucking if there were no support build classes present. The support classes give them that extra boost of health/regen/endurance for the zerks to keep going. I was saying that berzerkers are terrible if they choose to have all zerkers in their party for difficult content. I don’t think berzerkers suck in general. The guy above was saying how my build was completely useless because it kept others alive, and that’s where this argument stemmed from.
my guild does lvl79/80 fractals and guess what gear they are using.
right, berserker.and a full berserker guardian can support as well as a pvt guardian. the only difference is, that the full berserker guardian (when he is good and can survive in full berserker) deals more damage and helps the group to kill targets.
we dont even need to talk about healing guardians. healing scales so bad and healing wont help to keep bad players alive and is useless in good groups, because good players dont die anyway.
So my Healing Signet is useless? Thanks for the info.
I think people are mistaking the forum warrior with warrior. Yes, guardians can out dps a warrior but cannot out dps a forum warrior. I hope that clears up the confusion.
Zerker warrior vs. Zerker guardian. Pretty sure warrior takes it every time in sustainable DPS. Enough people have claimed Guardians out-DPS warrior on this forum for me to demand evidence. Doubt it will ever surface though. Everyone wants to talk theory, nothing put into practice.
Your evidence has yet to surface either. Funny.
That post shows no proofs, those numbers could easily be pulled out of the Great Hole in Divinity Reach if you know what I mean.
There is no data on how he got those numbers at all.Proving this is pretty simple; just have one Warrior and one Guardian deal his best possible DPS chain for one minute minumum (else it just proves burst but not DPS).
Then compare the total damage and divide it by 60.Until that test is done, properly and with no mistakes, your claim as the same validity as saying god exists.
The hilarity is you don’t realize the same can be said about your claim.
I don’t see how that’s true. His suggestion sounds like the best solution. Unless you’re saying you wouldn’t believe any numbers those players give because they could be making them up? Think a simple recording of both screens and then a detailed print-out of the combat log would put it all to rest. How could you argue those facts?
The point is he thinks the burden of proof lies on Guardians just because he personally thinks that Warriors do more DPS. Even when someone posted some evidence that, whether he likes it or not, is better than the nothing he has provided.
If you’re a Guardian and you’re having trouble beating even 5 mobs at once…. I really don’t know what to say.
This char could literally take on champions on it’s own even at level 37 and you can’t kill 3 mobs?
What build are you using anyway?
5 mobs? I was killing 20 mobs or 3 champions at the same time when I was lvl 5. Naked.
Also, you can support just as well in zerker as you can in trash cleric gear, so there’s no point using it if you can just DPS and support at the same time.
No you can’t. Your heals are crap. Hmm, no heal on dodge or 2000 heal on dodge? 120/sec regen or 350/sec regen? Symbols healing for 350/sec or no healing symbols? 250/sec VoR to entire group or 80 VoR to just yourself?
You can claim that healing is inferior to DPS, but you can’t claim that you support just as well in zerker because your heals are trash.
Lol that’s funny, I play a zerker guard traited 0/0/30/30/10 and I constantly keep my team alive with those weak heals, my VoR regen goes to the entire group, I easily clear conditions which also keeps my groups alive while still doing a ton of dmg and unfortunately keeping the aggro. I’m sure people would rather have a zerker guard that can do the as,e thing as a cleric guard but with much better dmg.
I’m sure you’re doing a lot keeping your group alive with that sub-100 VoR and 100 dodge rolls. If that’s “keeping your team alive” then surely doubling or even doing 20x the healing of some skills must make them gods.
That post shows no proofs, those numbers could easily be pulled out of the Great Hole in Divinity Reach if you know what I mean.
There is no data on how he got those numbers at all.Proving this is pretty simple; just have one Warrior and one Guardian deal his best possible DPS chain for one minute minumum (else it just proves burst but not DPS).
Then compare the total damage and divide it by 60.Until that test is done, properly and with no mistakes, your claim as the same validity as saying god exists.
The hilarity is you don’t realize the same can be said about your claim.
Even so, warriors have more passive defense and (a little) less active defense (especially party wide) than guardians do. Which seems back asswards to me but I don’t work for Anet so what do I know.
Why? It’s not like guardians do less damage than warriors.
You’re comparing a level 37 guardian to a level 80 warrior?
He compared the level 37 guard to where his war was at when at level 37
Not unless he leveled that warrior in the last couple months he isn’t. Before the Healing Signet change warrior regen was a joke.
Given that Healing Signet isn’t the best open world heal anyway, it’s irrelevant that it used to be worse. It’s hard to think of any leveling fights that take more than 20-30s and most are far shorter, so you should be using Healing Surge.
(edited by Yaki.9563)
Warriors have always had higher passive healing than Guardians. Always. You know why? Because their passive heal is their healing skill. So you get your passive heal in addition to your healing skill. Then there’s all those other sources of healing you have and easy access to aegis, protection, and regen.
Healing signet may be a bit high at the moment but it’s not that much of a difference relative to healing surge.
Wait, what? What game are you playing?
Warriors having higher passive healing than guardians happened very recently with the Healing Signet changes. Prior to that warrior passive healing was largely a very unfunny joke.
And hate to tell you, there is a huge difference between passive health regeneration and burst health recovery. Especially passive health regeneration that strong.
Healing Signet has always outhealed VoR. Always. By a large margin. In addition, warriors have always been able to get Adrenal Health, which also (by itself) outheals VoR.
So try again.
Use swiftness on kill runes. Use staff to run long distances.
No you can’t. Your heals are crap. Hmm, no heal on dodge or 2000 heal on dodge? 120/sec regen or 350/sec regen? Symbols healing for 350/sec or no healing symbols? 250/sec VoR to entire group or 80 VoR to just yourself?
You can claim that healing is inferior to DPS, but you can’t claim that you support just as well in zerker because your heals are trash.
Healing won’t mitigate attacks from bosses well enough, whereas blocks do, which any guardian can use. Reflects do, which any guardian can use. Protection does, which any guardian can use. I don’t even count healing as support, it’s literally just increasing your HP bar, but if you get kicked by Lupicus, unless the heals get your HP bar all the way back up, missing a dodge again will just get you downed anyway.
Clerics guardians can do all that (and some of it even slightly better due to boon duration) in addition to the heals they provide.
Yaki, the problem with healing based supports is that the boss outDPSes the rate at which you can drop cover heals, which makes negation tactics (blinds and reflects) much more effective aside than healing.
I’m aware of that. However, unless the fight is less than a defensive cooldown in duration (as is the case on some trash), prolonging the fight won’t decrease the chances of success and the extra heals may actually contribute to it’s success. You’ll just have slightly longer runs.
Tell him to solo Arah. Let’s see how long he can keep up dodges against Lupicus and his 1.5 million HP pool.
If you can keep up dodges in zerker gear you can keep it up in other gear as well, even if it takes you 100000x as long to kill him. Dodging isn’t the issue.
Also, you can support just as well in zerker as you can in trash cleric gear, so there’s no point using it if you can just DPS and support at the same time.
No you can’t. Your heals are crap. Hmm, no heal on dodge or 2000 heal on dodge? 120/sec regen or 350/sec regen? Symbols healing for 350/sec or no healing symbols? 250/sec VoR to entire group or 80 VoR to just yourself?
You can claim that healing is inferior to DPS, but you can’t claim that you support just as well in zerker because your heals are trash.
If healing is irrelevant then why the hell do healing guardians seem to be popular and wanted? Because nobody wants you to heal them?
They are popular because people think they are being useful. Every person who likes playing a healer in other MMOs has created a healing guardian and wants to believe they can add something to the group, because they like that playstyle.
Wanted? Nope. I have never seen anyone ask for a healing guardian or even give positive feedback about healing guardians. Guardian, yes. Healing guardian, no.
That said, there are obvious reasons why you would only use one or two guardians in a group, and why warriors are so crucial in speed clear settings. The reason is that guardians offer no offensive utility or buffs, whereas warriors come with banners, empowered allies (soon to be nerfed), and instant might/fury/vulnerability. Of those the guardian is really only good for vulnerability stacking.
It only takes one warrior to do all that. 2 banners + FGJ + EA can be done with one standard warrior setup.
What actually happens is these zerkers drop because your DPS is trash (and so the room for error increases the longer the fight progresses) and now you go think zerkers are bad.
So the zerkers are bad. You just admitted they died because they made an error. All the lower dps did is allow more “room” for that error to occur.
Warriors have always had higher passive healing than Guardians. Always. You know why? Because their passive heal is their healing skill. So you get your passive heal in addition to your healing skill. Then there’s all those other sources of healing you have and easy access to aegis, protection, and regen.
Healing signet may be a bit high at the moment but it’s not that much of a difference relative to healing surge.
How do you have lower healing? If you mean passive, afk healing then yes. But you do have a heal skill you know. You also have protection, aegis, easier access to regen, along with a host of defensive utilities.
The sad part is that it wasn’t even remotely OP with 2 conditions being removed. Warriors with warhorn are far superior at condition removal than guardians, but it’s so insignificant that no one on the warrior forum even notices this kind of thing. It literally took weeks and no one believed it because no one runs warhorn, and still no one does even with 2 conditions being removed.
This change makes me sad. I was seriously not really happy with my warrior until the bug came in, then I felt more useful with strong condition removal. I suspect the amount I play will decline. Yes, it’s a bug. But it was a bug that made a weak trait that sacrificed a lot into something halfway decent.
Even if there was no precursor I wouldn’t get a legendary. Way too much mindless cash spending or grinding. If they had made it based on actual achievements I’d be happy to do it, but just blowing a bunch of gold on the AH for materials? Forget it.
Almost every boss behaves differently if the party ranges or melee it. Take spider and alpha for example, if we have someone range-ing any of these, they’ll spam ranged habilities, if everyone is meleeing, you’ll not see said habilities. Pretty sure lupi has some habilities that only affect ranged people as well. I don’t really get how any of that is a bug, it seems like intended combat mechanics to me.
Those seem fine, but “stacking” also refers to things like SE P3 1st boss stacking on the boxes (or whatever they are) or dredge fractal stacking on the wooden supports both of which are clear exploits.
In pve you can determine the enemies style by fighting them often; so you know their quirks, which means you need little defensive attributes to kill them, but use strategy, bugs, and smart means.
Seriously, bro?
I have two explanations for this – You think stacking is a bug.
If the mob is behaving differently because of the stacking, then yes you’re exploiting a bug. If by stacking you just mean “stand somewhat close to each other so we are all affected by buffs etc. and the mob stays in one spot” then no, it’s not a bug.
Wow, you did find a group where you can play the way you want. So how about shutting up now and let people who want to stack because it’s efficient play the way they want.
There’s a difference between stacking for efficiency and stacking so you bug the boss that it doesn’t do all of its attacks. The latter is far more common.
The hammer is the best support weapon imo with pretty much 100% protection up time for the whole team out of the box.
Maybe if you’re running all warriors in a fight that requires no mobility.
It’s funny watching threads like this where the bad DPS from WoW have become king of the hill in GW2 because the poorly designed PvE suits their playstyle. I guess bads need their day too.
I especially love the guy who said Teq was only hard because of all the bad casuals, then guests to another server to get carried. Hahaha!
(edited by Yaki.9563)
now ascended weapons were created (based off of anet’s logic) to bridge the gap between exotics and legendary.
Bridge what gap? Legendary weapons were exotics and no better than other exotic weapons. They only got made ascended when ascended weapons were introduced.
The point of ascended gear, of any type, is to add a new gear/power goal for people. Just like in every other MMO every made.
The day swamp and water are removed, is the day fotm dies.
Water is the worst fractal. Boring, horrible underwater combat mechanics/weapons, and not even all that much faster than some of the others.
Range on shouts and warhorn skills make this not as good as it sounds for group play. 600 range is pitifully small.
Get over yourself. Oh no they added content without fixing the specific bugs that you want! Bugs, I might add, that I personally have not noticed at all.
New hairstyles sounds great!
Where are dungeon posters who will immediate tear apart people who claim to have “good” DPS on their builds? I mean Banner Healing? Main Hand Sword? Is this a joke?
The worst part is you spread this cancer to new players who don’t know any better.
If you’re that worried about conditions then slap on Shake It Off or Signet of Stamina, hell you could even go Lyssa Runes and spam Signet of Rage on a reduced cooldown.
Someone didn’t read the OP….you.
The best example is aetherize dungeon.
While you zerkers have to time your perfect dodge and pattern in order to survive cannon phases, I can just mildly and halfheartedly dodge those cannons while capable of taking more than 4 hits of cannons, and always be the last few people who survive the cannons in a PUG.Then I have to RISK MY LIFE and WASTE MORE TIME saving those zerker noobs who die in the cannon phases. I rather they stay alive but do less damage.
Let’s see if i get what you’re saying here: You run Tanky gear to allow bad play. Neat, next person please step foward, this one is a lost cause.
Margin of error =/= bad play.
A full zerk people will die in 1~2 hits by cannons, plus not all of them have free access to vigor, meaaning less dodge.
So if you zerker make one mistake and go down, it is us who’ll need to help you out to cover your mistake….
So why not increase your own range of “margin of error”?
Don’t tell me you can always play perfect, because the reality I experienced for more than a year of playing GW2 tells me that it’s far from true.Seriously, I can’t feel anything even when you go full zerk…
The boss may die 30 secs faster, but I don’t really care, I just don’t want to see you die and I have to cover your mistake.You should try playing with a good team zerker team sometime. I assure you, you’ll save much more than 30 seconds. Good dps teams finish many dungeons in half (or less) time it takes a support/tanky team.
But not half the time of a zerk team with one tanky/support player, which is what we’re talking about. Or are people thinking that when we say cleric’s is viable, we mean the entire group wearing cleric’s? LOL @ that.
zerk 48 archdiviner solo http://youtu.be/5P7Y4G3lLmU
zerk 48 bloomhunger solo http://youtu.be/Td6ZAB6Lsxc
zerk raving asura http://youtu.be/3EoSxlE2yCw
zerk ice elemental without superheated melee http://youtu.be/yYg2_WU_7rA
Pretty much goes to show how fundamentally flawed ANet’s encounter design is. When mitigation consists of dodging, tons of stuff can be solo’d (in any gear, not just zerk) because your team adds nothing but extra DPS.
Those aren’t “team” encounters, those are solo encounters that you can do faster as a group because you have more total DPS. How thrilling.
And if you think zerker gear doesn’t incrase the success rate of any encounters, let me explain something: if you overextend a fight, it is most likely that anyone with no vigor on critical will be out of dodges, and i guess you do know what happens when someone is out of dodges.
If they haven’t run out of dodges within 1 minute, they aren’t going to be any more likely to run out of dodges in 20 minutes. It’s not like your energy supply slowly depletes over the course of several minutes, it happens quickly. If you can regenerate enough to make it through a cycle or two of dodges, you can make it forever.
If alpha, for example, insta kills you with zerk gear (and he probably will if you don’t go deep in valor), wearing cleric’s will change nothing. Healing power is kitten in PvE, in fact, the only place you need heals is to survive jade maw’s agony in high level fractals, but we have tome of courage #5 for that.
There is damage that lies between 1-shot kills and avoidable.
Also, there is no place in the game where you need zerker gear either. It’s only optimal because you can be successful in it and it makes the runs faster. It doesn’t actually increase the chances of success on any encounter.
Healing power and toughness have almost zero use. All they do is prolong encounters giving you more room for error.
They don’t prolong encounters. The loss of power/pre/critdmg prolongs encounters. I think the “more room for error” argument is flawed. If you’re not going to screw up in the first 2 mins, you aren’t going to screw up in the next 30s. The extra health you give to your group from healing power also mitigates some of the “error”. Much easier to not die when you miss a dodge at 100% health than at 50% health.
For dungeon/fractals no. Compare numbers.
I don’t see the cleric gear in that video. It’s just kittenery at it’s finest.
It’s full zerk. You won’t get anywhere near those numbers with clerics. Wearing clerics gear will just prolong the fight and leave room for error like Colesy said. Healing power is about as good as magic find was in dungeon/fractals. If you are new or have zerkerphobia then knights gear is the next best choice after zerker gear for dungeon/fractal.
So you aren’t comparing, which is my point.
What? Cleric gear is terrible for dungeons. It’s like using berserker against epic bosses, you’ve only got one relevant stat (power).
It is terrible but you’re wrong. Healing power has some use, as does toughness, but they are simply inferior to damage stats. Or are you seriously suggesting that you have never, ever, died in a dungeon from anything other than 1-shot mechanics that you failed to dodge? That’s absurd.
The people still defending/enjoying the game are trapped inside the skinner box
As is every person playing any MMO ever made. How is this a revelation? You might as well be saying the people playing are “trapped in front of their computer”.
we need roles. yes, roles. and content to fit the roles.
roles like: soaker, buffer, debuffer, CC, ranged DPS, melee DPS, healer etc.
and before the anti trinity choir wakes up and start singing;
we were actually promised that every class can play what he want, not that all classes can play only DPS.There are actual roles to play in World vs World whereas your holy trinity is completely useless:
Commander on Teamspeak 3/ Ventrilo/Raidcall: for coordination, and can be harsh at times… and I hope your commander isn’t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX6-gZw2tog LMAOOOOO
Mesmer: for invisibility and ambush
Guardian: Stability and boon provider
Hammer Warrior: Stunner
Thief: perfect dolyak slayer & good for scouting
Scouts: checking enemy fortifications
Guard tower: semi-afk and sitting on an arrow cart.
Trebuchet operator: the most boring role, sitting there for several hours trebbing a tower or a keep’s wall.
Havoc squads: 5-person squad capturing camps, killing Dolyaks, and could sometimes be very sneaky and take a tier 3 keep.
Dolyak escorts: not very rewarding but really good way of ensuring supplies make it to towers and keeps.
Those are skills and activities, not roles. That’s like saying in WoW a shaman is the “bloodlust provider” regardless of whether they are healing or DPSing. And if you still think you’re right, just consider how awful it is that your class roles are just 1 or 2 skills and the rest is completely irrelevant.
For dungeon/fractals no. Compare numbers.
I don’t see the cleric gear in that video. It’s just kittenery at it’s finest.
Why should there be compensation?
Not very. I run full magi/cleric’s and it feels like a waste because I do the same fractals on my non-cleric’s warrior and it’s just as easy and smooth. Then you run into the issue of going cleric’s when some other player is also going cleric’s which is just ridiculous.
the only support that you’re missing is the condition removal/cleansing through warhorn skills. normally the guardian takes over the role of party-wide condition removal because the condition cleansing traits are located fairly conveniently in lines that are already attractive.
Warhorn is far better than guardian condition removal. I’m also slightly amused that you expect Guardian’s to sacrifice their DPS while you aren’t willing to sacrifice yours.
however, if you are hellbent on taking warhorn condition removal I would probably suggest a build like 30/20/0/20/0 (which lacks fast hands + loses out on a lot of damage bonuses) or 30/0/0/20/20 (which has terrible crit chance). I’m not sure which is less detrimental to your personal DPS.
15% less crit is terrible? You’re not into exaggerating at all are you?