Guild Wars 2

Shouts are so bad though…

Doesn’t everyone stack in PvE? Seems to me that would make it easy to hit everyone with the cone. Situationally useful, nothing wrong with that.

I love the way Aegis looks.

DocHolliday.5921:

IndigoSundown.5419:

a t s e.9614:

The amount of heals is ridiculous and it should be fixed.

Funny thing, the amount of heals is dismissed as useless in PvE.

It’s too bad we can’t go back in time and introduce ‘a t s e.96.14’ to PvP resto druids during TBC. That would be hilarious.

Or warriors and rogues with their mace stun procs. It goes both ways.

a t s e.9614:

800hp is with a non-banner build. If a warrior decides to go banner build in clerics its more than 1000.

5 guys can’t do 1000 damage per second? Wow that’s bad…

Also, you know that plenty of other classes can achieve about the same hps and some even get protection thrown in for free (which warrior doesn’t have).

a t s e.9614:

Galtrix.7369:

Not sure what you’re talking about. My guardian can keep regen up pretty much 90% of the time, and it is nearly useless. I’m guessing you encountered a warrior and his passive health regeneration, because regen is absolutely useless for all the health it gives you.

Not sure if trolling. I have a guardian too, that I stopped playing long time ago. And the bunker symbol heal build is nearly unkilllable 1v1. I use my warrior now but im tiered of this broken crap. I would play my thief more if regen got removed from the game.

1v1? You said 3v1.

What’s the problem? It’s not like he’s killing you with his weak sauce dps.

Otaur.9268:

Actually looked like he was in a cage.

He doesn’t need a cage since he never moves….

I’m not sure how ANet ever thought having a dragon that is essentially an inanimate object (from both a mechanics and animation perspective) would be “epic” or fun.

Guardian, using food and buffs as the above warrior, gets 2134 healing power:
*Signet of Resolve: 262/s
*Virtue of Resolve: 265/s (affects allies)
*Regeneration: 397/s (affects allies)
*Writ of the Merciful: 134/s (affect allies, I already reduced by half for 50% uptime)

Already I’m beating Warriors in healing per second. Add in:

*Selfless Daring: 224/s minimum (1 dodge every 10s, also affects allies)
*Tome of Mercy heals
*Healing utility skill like Sanctuary or Merciful Intervention
*The possibility of rearranging traits to get AH or MF

Then guardians have ample access to protection and aegis, as well as blind.

The comparison isn’t even close for pure bunkering. In addition to that, almost all guardian heals affect allies while Warrior just has regen or shouts (not both). Regen may look fancy in a big zerg but you’re totally naive and self-absorbed if you think no one else is bringing regen and regen doesn’t stack intensity.

Scryed.9423:

MarkedOne.1309:

I would like to report Warrior for being the most effective class with the least amount of skill required in every aspect of the game.

In all fairness when this class sucked for the first 6 months of the game, we didn’t drop into other class sub forums and talk mad kitten.

Actually you guys did.

Why does every skill need to be useful all the time? Axe 4 is good when you don’t have perma-fury, like when you’re running rez banner (and isn’t that standard in groups?). Axe 5 is good when you are facing a lot of mobs. It is also far more likely to hit extra targets because it is 360 degree AE vs. the auto-attack which is not.

BTW it’s pretty standard that weapon attacks 2-5 are a DPS loss vs. auto-attacks on most weapons.

wads.5730:

in its current state, only garbage players use dolyak runes.

in its current state, only garbage players use healing shouts.

That makes this the perfect place for those runes!

Orpheal.8263:

LumAnth.5124:

hexes to Mesmers.

Enough of this “phantasms are living hexes” or “confusion iS all the hexes in one” bs excuse

If at all, they belong to necromancers, get your facts straight, ..a hex is a CURSE

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hex.
Necromancers are the masters of curses, not mesmers.

I’m pretty sure Mesmers had more hexes in GW1 than any other class. I like how you use the common, non-GW definition of hexes, and the common, non-GW definition of necromancers to claim that they are the masters of hexes. When all your assumptions are flawed, you conclusion is going to be flawed too. Try again.

AgentChaos.4932:

GUARDIAN POV REMOVES 2 CONDITIONS AND CONVERT 1 INTO BOON

Same for warrior warhorn trait.

Mepheles.2087:

Give Warrior a decent heal not on a stupidly long cooldown. The only reason we rely on Healing sig is because we are constantly being hit with no access to regen or protection, or abundant dodges. Which is why warriors still use GS to run away and wait for Healing surge to come back up.

No you rely on HS because it does more healing than any of the other heals with no casting requirement.

Warhorn trait is just bad now anyway. It got decent with the bug, but it’s back to being useless.

Irsei.6802:

Yaki.9563:

Full cleric (magi back) is only 1064 healing power. Extra 300 from traits (lol), extra 150ish from food gives you a whoping total of about 1500 healing power. That means your shouts heal for 2850 or so. Not 3400. Exaggerate much?

So you’ve got some warrior burning 3 utility slots with short range on the heal, traited fully into worthless defensive trait lines, wearing worthless gear, and otherwise almost entirely worthless just so they can heal some butt-huggers for less than 9000 every 25 seconds.

That doesn’t sound like Guardian at all.

The truly hilarious part? Before the patch they could do the same thing except, oh noes, they only healed for 8000 instead of 9000 every 25s. Did anyone seriously run such a troll build? Nope. Will they now? Maybe if they’re dumb.

You all can ignore this guy…. another warrior trying to defend his op class… man these trolls are coming out of the wood work after this last mega love patch for warriors…

I don’t run shouts and I certainly don’t run cleric’s gear. I also play a guardian. Check my posts on the warrior forums. I make fun of the people that think shout heal builds are good.

And calling a 15% increase to a rarely used (for good reason) trait “mega-love” is hilarious.

Mikau.6920:

To everyone saying that Warrior Healing is useless, do you ever stop to think about full apothecary? Full healing warrior is far superior than Guardian, becouse they can do descent dmg (both in clerics or apothecary) and have insane heals. Not only by shouts, but by perma regen via banners too (400 per sec). Also warriors can heal themselves for 1000+ per second.

How guardian can heal while being useful? We do basically no dmg when we build to full heal.

Apothecary or clerics is not decent damage. Also, you can’t get healing shouts and banner regen. Warriors can’t heal themselves for 1000+ per second. Why am I even bothering to respond, every single thing you said is wrong.

And thinking that damage is the only useful thing anyone provides besides healing is a laughable statement. Yea, WoR useless. Group stability useless. Elite healing skill useless. Group aegis useless. Group protection useless.

Lucentfir.7430:

hybrid.5027:

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Yes especially in a Condi bunker build those bleed burn, torment, and 4 shouts that heal for 2.3k+ are nothing! lets not forget Healing Signet with and Adrenal health useless….oh wait..

Don’t forget the 0 power to go along with those bleeds and torments that do bad damage because of the low condition damage stat. So yes, that is pretty useless. HS and Adrenal Health only affect the warrior, and barely increase at all with healing power.

Red Falcon.8257:

I believe Anet should understand the problem of shout healing isn’t the amount of healing per se, but the fact one is forced to lock all 3 utilities to a narrow selection of mediocre utilities in order to get the full effect.

They could make the trait into something like “using a shout heals 4000hp, 20 second internal cooldown”, that way one is only forced to keep one shout on its bar.
Else shout healing will only be really good when we’ll get more shouts to pick from.

The trait isn’t meant to define a build. Just like most other traits it’s just there to supplement what you were already using. If you don’t like shouts that much (who would?) then you wouldn’t bother with the trait.

Full cleric (magi back) is only 1064 healing power. Extra 300 from traits (lol), extra 150ish from food gives you a whoping total of about 1500 healing power. That means your shouts heal for 2850 or so. Not 3400. Exaggerate much?

So you’ve got some warrior burning 3 utility slots with short range on the heal, traited fully into worthless defensive trait lines, wearing worthless gear, and otherwise almost entirely worthless just so they can heal some butt-huggers for less than 9000 every 25 seconds.

That doesn’t sound like Guardian at all.

The truly hilarious part? Before the patch they could do the same thing except, oh noes, they only healed for 8000 instead of 9000 every 25s. Did anyone seriously run such a troll build? Nope. Will they now? Maybe if they’re dumb.

That warrior build is horrible. Banners buffs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shout buffs, “tanky” is pointless, and the heals you provide are still puny.

Since you gave only 2 choices, the 2nd wins by default.

OP means “obviously pointless”. At least in the case of healing shouts.

Arpheus.6918:

Astos.3609:

Its incredible for how much you can burst heal with Shouts. Their heal scaling was already one of the best in the game and it just got better.
I’m getting about ~3200 heal per shout now in full clerics.

I think the best part of it is being able to pick up reduced Shout Recharge AND The Warhorn cond conversion trait.

That is just crazy. Warriors can take three shouts at 20/20/24 sec CD which like you say heal for 3200 each with cleric gear. Thats about 10k AoE heal every 24 sec. Thats more than most classes can heal themselves per 24 sec.

Guardian heals for that much every 24 seconds just from dodging. And they provided lots of other heals as well. And it doesn’t use up all their utility skills, so they are actually useful.

Astos.3609:

Its incredible for how much you can burst heal with Shouts. Their heal scaling was already one of the best in the game and it just got better.
I’m getting about ~3200 heal per shout now in full clerics.

Yet you are otherwise 100% useless. Compare to say, Guardian, which can do 2000 heal per dodge every 5s and provide lots of utility in addition to the other heal sources they give like regen, symbols, virtue of resolve, staff empower, etc.

Cleric warrior, lulz.

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Dromar.1027:

CC isnt even required on dangerous mobs because of the mountain of dps people have, watch them red bars shoot down before the mobs do anything… and then there’s defiant.

Try Dredge at fotm 79 and tell me that cc isn’t important.

Build diversity is the issue and people are being punished for going another route the game offers. Let’s hope the October 15th update helps with some of the frustration.

It won’t. Here is what I said two months ago about “support builds” and the scrubs who want them…

“A lot of players are used to traditional trinity MMO where a “support” character could hang around in the back out of danger buffing his team not really using any twitch or micro skills and get carried through content because even though his skills are low, the character type is important enough to warrant inclusion and thus the lazy man has a path to success. The lazy and less skilled players gravitate to support/midline roles because it allows them to blend into the background for the most part. They don’t get special credit when a raid goes well, but its also usually not their fault when it fails.
Not saying this description applies to everyone who wants to play a dedicated support character, but it certainly describes a significant enough portion of them to make it the rule not the exception.
As I have said in other threads on this topic, this is an action MMO. You can’t reach the top by playing a support necro who sits at 1200 range with staff auto, casting wells on cool down. You have to be in the mix pulling your weight. If this isnt appealing, this probably isnt the game for you.”

Biased much? In almost every game it’s the DPS that are the lazy ones. This game is no exception: “I just want to press 1 and stack using the same strategy for every fight”.

coglin.1867:

Yaki.9563:

Shout heals are still puny compared to the healing output of Guardians just with dodge heal. If a 15% healing increase makes us “awesome” heal support then we must have been pretty darn good before…but we weren’t even close.

So your complaining. Interesting. Why don’t you send all of the Anet devs a mail, asking for a special line of code that lets everyone get the “15% buff” as you called it except your character. Because honestly, what sense does it make to compare yourself to the profession that is designed to be best at a certain aspect, then complain that if your not on that level, why bother. If you want to support like a guardian, then go play one. But do not complain that you cannot out guardian a guardian.

I’m not complaining, I’m just pointing out the flaw in reasoning that people are making saying that all of a sudden warriors will be amazing heal support. Warriors were crap heal support before and they are still crap heal support. That’s not a complaint that’s simply a statement of opinion.

Daddar.5971:

This game is not only Alt-unfriendly, it is Alt-penalizing.

Here’s why I say this. I have 8 Lv. 80 toons, one for each profession, and all with full exotic gear, and most with ascended trinkets. To get to that point I have had to repeat lots of (to me) boring/grinding content that should have been account bound. I do not want to spend 15 minutes teaching skills to cows on some random ranch just to get a ‘heart’ when I am really after challenging combat. Why can’t WvW skill level be account-bound so that I can play all 8 of my toons with the benefits I’ve earned? Why can’t map completion be one-and-done so that it isn’t boring as kitten to open all the areas for all my toons? Oh, and add to that the fact that the much-touted ‘build diversity’ boils down to full zerker in PvE and PVT in WvW.

I suppose you can say ‘if you’re not having fun then just quit’, but that misses the point. If the game were living up to its stated goals I would be having fun…

So the problem is you hate the game. It has nothing to do with alts, it’s just that you don’t like the game so don’t want to have to play it more than once but for some reason you masochistically play it with one character and are compelled to play it with 8 characters because you like the way they look or something.

If you like the game in the first place, doing it again with an alt wouldn’t be an issue. Plus why do you need to do world completion with all of your characters? Just craft to level cap, buy some exotics, and then do whatever the heck you want…

Dante.1508:

Yes incredibly unfriendly

I have 11 characters and many parts of this game have been made to be Alt unfriendly Ascended gear being the latest in a long list.

Laurels
Dungeons and Fotm
Commendations
Map completions
Bound items
Crafting now after Ascended weapons
Build making
Karma since the nerf.
Guild events and Living story are all alt unfriendly and even level unfriendly.
etc etc

Most of those aren’t alt-unfriendly. You can do them just as well on alts as you can on your main. The only alt-unfriendly things are those that are account limited to once per day, like dungeon paths and laurels.

Shout heals are still puny compared to the healing output of Guardians just with dodge heal. If a 15% healing increase makes us “awesome” heal support then we must have been pretty darn good before…but we weren’t even close.

Irsei.6802:

You hit the nail on the head…. why pick a guardian for support.. ohh a couple of cheesy abilities which you can really go without. While bring a warrior and wow now Warriors get more use out of heal gear then Guardians…. wow and Like I said before.. just watch the video and see how excited the devs were while talking warrior.. and see how dead they were when talking about guardians… you cant hide it.. its obvious they dont care…

My god. You seriously think Warriors get more out of heal gear than Guardians? They only have one heal that affects the group. Selfless Daring alone gives Guardians more effect from their heal power than Warriors…1500+ heal on kitten cooldown kitten . Then add in the regen, the symbols, the mace heal, VoR passive and active, staff Empower, staff orb…. you can’t possibly be serious in your comments.

Any warrior who goes healing power is completely gimping himself.

Brutaly.6257:

25% more heals and considerably better scaling with healing power. So basically we are talking about 7k burst aoe heal while removing conditions (rune of soldier) for my warrior. Combine that with 500 passive regen.

Your healing power warrior is useless anyway so congrats on being slightly less useless.

Meglobob.8620:

Yaki.9563:

Maybe you should play each character more or play fewer of them. If all you do in this game is max gear your chars then retire them to play an alt, I don’t really have much sympathy for your difficulty in getting ascended weapons.

So much for GW2 to being alt friendly and so much for the community in GW2…both apparently suck according to the above poster…

How come I can’t have 10000 alts and deck them out in the best gear possible with only a few hours play time? How unfair! Do you even listen to yourself? Your expectations are completely unreasonable. BTW there is a way to “quickly” gear all your alts with ascended weapons: crafting.

Also, if you so rarely play them that you have little chance of a drop, why do you even care about the puny 6% damage increase?

I don’t see why you would. You can get the speed bonus from elsewhere and everything else is lackluster.

Maybe you should play each character more or play fewer of them. If all you do in this game is max gear your chars then retire them to play an alt, I don’t really have much sympathy for your difficulty in getting ascended weapons.

Not even remotely worth it. Give up 75% of your damage to gain a 10% healing increase? It’s laughable.

Stice.5204:

Sovereign.1093:

You can do that too if you wish with either warrior or guardian as long as you practice.

No amount of practice will make up for the fact that a guardian needs a very defensive trait build and 400+ healing power to equal the amount of passive healing that a warrior gets from just Healing Signet and Adrenal Health with 0 healing power.

There is no existing guardian build that combines the amount of damage and survivability that warrior has.

With that said, no, I’m not rethinking my decision, because I made my guardian specifically to support my group with stability, might and space control skills, which are still things a guardian does better than a warrior. But the fact that guardians still have a niche in team play does not mean that warriors’ current level of passive, low-investment survivability is balanced.

How do you guys always conveniently forget about protection, aegis, blind, etc. I like how you also ignore your heal skill. It’s too hard to press 6?

Carpboy.7145:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAsf7dlUgiDnGyNEf4Eh1DAeQ/VVIeXPoIEbIA-jUyA4rBRTQgILhmKAk+KiGbzoIas6FM9JRUtPpIa1SBYuwI-w

For solo WvW, 1v1s, etc. decent toughness, good crit, really high power, max crit dmg, and perma vigor. The key is to always start out with Sce/F. Use the shield on focus not to block, but for huge burst. Wait a split second until it explodes, then use Sce 3 and Judges Intervention. from there Sce 2. After that either autoattack with Sce or swap to Sw and teleport and auto away. If you use T #4 twice thats also a really big range nuke. On YouTube, if you search Got Boons, he runs an almost exact similar build to mine, except less survivability. When you look at the link i gave, it doesn’t put in Right Hand Strength, so the crit chance is actually 51%. On the 15 its getting a buff. Grab Focused Mind so meditations will give fury.

Believe it or not, you would actually have higher stats with celestial gear. You trade ~100 power for ~100 precision but get slightly more crit damage, toughness, vitality and a bonus 370 condition damage and healing power.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRAsf7dlUgiDnGyNEf4Eh1DAeQ/VVIeXPoIEbIA-jEyAo+BRn8LiGbboIas6+IrXwUtA62k6NKiWtUAmrMC-w

Outside the top 3 I wasn’t really ranking them, just put them in order that they came to mind.

I’ve only played warrior and guardian at high level and it seems to me that they bring far more to the table than other groups. I’m not talking about damage, I’m talking about group support and buffs.

Warrior: 2 banners which bring 180 power, 180 precision, and 15% crit damage. 150 power to group in combat. Permanent 3 stacks might. 50% group fury uptime. AE revive with warbanner.
Guardian: Multiple reflects on short cooldown, group stability, protection, huge heals with elite skill, group aegis
Mesmer: Reflects and group quickness, portals for exploiting
Ranger: 150 precision
Thief: Group stealth
Elementalist: ?
Necromancer: ?
Engineer: ???

It seems like the top 3 can bring huge amounts of damage and utility (ie, reflects are OP in PvE) without giving up good damage, while the rest are just there are filler spots when you already have your warrior and guardian and mesmer. Doesn’t this seem like a gigantic disparity?

This isn’t even going into how Warrior/Guardian are based on melee, which is superior to ranged for PvE content, while some other classes have to use awkward and unoptimized weapon sets to fit into that playstyle (look at ranger sword autoattack chain, for example).

Kilger.5490:

I was totally melee until I saw how a long bow can melt stuff with the right spec (+10% damage for endurance & flanking, +5% for trait, “quickdraw” for lots of rapidfire), and at range where dps isnt interrupted by cc. Now I dont see why there would be any complaint about a ranger with a longbow in the group.

Because you still do less damage than another equally unbuffed melee. In addition, that melee player is getting buffs and providing buffs for the other players that will dramatically increase their damage relative to yours.

Durzlla.6295:

Rutee.1058:

There is definitely such a thing as being ‘too tanky’; especially when you’re outranging most AoE to start with. I don’t worry about it since two of my three stats are damage and I’m usually close, but I’d start to worry if it were just one used for damage, and the other two self-defense.

I use clerics because the healing power helps my allies as well as myself (not that much granted), that or if i go with a more offensive build i’ll take magi and just make a build that boosts my pet up when i crit, and i do have zerker sitting there when/if i wanna use it…

This post makes me cry. Magi is less offensive than clerics. Both of those have the worst DPS of any sets in the game and are not worthy of discussion when we’re talking about damage output. Save that for some kind of ranger support build thread.

Ahlen.7591:

Garakan.8291:

Mepheles.2087:

Unfortunately, I must disagree. As people are already calling for Healing signets head on the chopping block, we don’t need more of a reason for a thorough nerfing. Anything but more healing.

Keep in Mind, Healing Signet is very strong, and the Reason behind People want to nerf it, is because it benefits offensive Warriors a lot.
I dont see anything wrong with nerfing Healing Signet (if the Devs think it is) and therefor increasing Healing where it belongs to, the defensive/support Warrior Builds.
Thank you for your Input.

Healing signet ISN’T very strong though.

Pure math wise, it’s only 20% stronger than healing surge, and has no secondary benefit. It’s also really weak against burst damage. The reason people whine about it is that it’s a good counter to conbunkers. It’s basically “Rock: Scissors is fine, nerf paper”.

Nerfing healing signet would hurt PVE warriors a lot more than it would hurt WvW/PVP warriors.

If they nerf Healing signet, I’d like to see a buff to Mending, make it a shout.

20% stronger is a lot when you consider that surge requires full adrenaline. It will also be far more than 20% because you will never be using surge perfectly on cooldown. No cast time is also huge. Surge doesn’t give a secondary benefit if you use it at full adrenaline.

Mepheles.2087:

Unfortunately, I must disagree. As people are already calling for Healing signets head on the chopping block, we don’t need more of a reason for a thorough nerfing. Anything but more healing.

Put HS on the chopping block then. It does heal for too much (and doesn’t meet the concept of signets either as it has no useful use effect).

urieldhynne.2743:

You still need a guardian in your team, is very important have a guardian in your team or lot of guardians in a zerg, but only for one role and job, for versatility or anything else, pick a warrior.

How can you say you need a guardian on your team and still be complaining?

Not to mention, what kind of versatility are you talking about? Everything positive about warriors is their control and damage. That’s one role. You make it sound like they can switch to some kind of effective support role or then to some ranged damage keep defense role, etc. which isn’t true. Warriors are just as pigeonholed as Guardians but you just like their role better so you’re jealous. Play a warrior then.

George Steel.1804:

Do I think I’m as good or better than the warrior featured in this video? Definitely

Have I ever done so much damage, while disruption so many foes, AND staying alive without much support from allies? Not even close.

Wait, so you want to do better like you currently do AND get all those things that you’re jealous of warriors for having? That’s like going on the warrior forums with a healway video and complaining that you don’t get tons of heals, aegis, protection, group stability, wall of reflection, etc.

Not all classes are the same. Duh. If you’re doing better, how can you possibly be complaining? Sorry, there is no uber-god class that has it all.

TooBz.3065:

Yaki.9563:

The weapon doesn’t make that much difference. The only reason you “need” one is for fractals, but they haven’t even opened 50+ yet.

We play this game to be mediocre. Everyone wants BiS gear. If they didn’t there would be no reason to add this stuff.

And they can have it. Just not instantly unless they want to fork over a lot of gold.

Shelledfade.6435:

it would have made more sense to make 10-man dungeons with more difficult content.

It’s hard to respect your opinion when you think that just having more people makes a dungeon/raid harder.

Zepidel.5349:

“Play how you want”

“Equal playing field for all”

“No grind”

Ya right… There is only 1 reliable way to obtain ascended weapons…

I got an ascended weapon in a fractal.

Why were fractals completed ignored? Now we have 55 AR max but you were too lazy to remove the 50 cap (which was stupid in the first place, i cant even think of a logical answer for putting the 50 cap on fractals).

Think harder. Perhaps because they don’t want people exploiting to beat higher level fractals? That took me all of 5s to think of.

Asceneded weapons could of cost 15-25 relics, giving people who like somewhat challenging PvE content a way to acquire asc weapons.

15-25 relics? Hahahahahahahaha. Maybe 100+ relics.

I mean this game pretty much became P2W/G2W after this patch, you can whine and say its only a 5%/10% increase, but its still goes completely against the GW philosophy to give rich/lucky/gem buyers a sizable advantage over the general population.

The weapon doesn’t make that much difference. The only reason you “need” one is for fractals, but they haven’t even opened 50+ yet.

Sure, when they cost twice as many mats to craft and you only get half a 2H weapon in your ascended loot box.

I liked the way the old runes of speed were. +25% with swiftness duration and swiftness proc doesn’t make any sense. +5% stacking speed does.