celestial items still have more stats on them than other sets, you and everyone else who are complaining about this are doing so completely without merit. If you bought celestial stuff for the paltry magic find gain, that’s your own fault
This is such a bogus argument. Celestial items have more stats but not all stats are equal, regardless of build. You really have to stretch to make it semi-worthwhile and the magic find was the extra bit that it took for some people. Seriously, how is that not hard to understand?
Maybe we should take all those berserker rings and nerf the crap out of them so that their +crit values are in line with armor. Then it would be “your fault” for buying them in the first place.
Just like Legendaries, you pay twice the price for the same thing.
To my humble opinion the only fair compensation to replace Magic Find (soul bound) gear is to add the same amount of MF which was on the gear to the permanent MF account bonus. Replacement stats like suggested would mostly be useless since they won’t match with the player stats.
So a super cheap set of MF gear should reward a permanent bonus that is much harder to obtain under the new system? Yea that’s a great idea…
Bottom line, it appears that anyone with really high end Magic Find sets and items is well and truly brutally screwed.
Aye. That’s how I read the article as well.
It seems, to me, that the game is moving away from a sandbox/open-world format (different styles of play, play the way you want, there is no right or wrong way to play, do what makes you happy, everyone has different goals and different ways to achieve personal goals) to a more linear play style.
Read: less choice, more force.
Maybe they should have just let ppl inspect gear instead. Then groups could boot MF leeches, which is the reason for this change anyway.
Note: To put it another way, when people say, “Ascended’s just a small stat increase”, I ask them, “Would you like an extra 3 trait points?” Because it turns out that’s how much you get just from having infusions. It’s a lot.
Not really. And you don’t get any traits with it, which is the main benefit of trait points. Not to mention it’s a crazy insane cost to get 12 infusions.
13% is A LOT
We are talking about extra 500-1000 dmg on most of the Backstab crits. Or even 2-3k dmg on 100-Blades against PvE target…
Yes, it’s a lot if it were all from one item. But that 13% is for someone in full ascended including armor vs. someone in only exotics. Anyone who plays a decent amount of time has at least ascended jewelry.
The weapon itself will add around 5.5-6%, more than any other single item but by itself not that crazy.
Also not taken into account are buffs. Where’s the fury buff and the might stacks?
Edit: 100B does 23k damage to a single target in PvE?
(edited by Yaki.9563)
Will we get to put that 3% magic find on celestial items into a stat of our choosing?
I would totally put it into crit damage.
I salvaged my mf set when I finished my celestial set. It seems a shame to lose it altogether, but if we do, I want to decide on how, not just lose it and gain nothing.
Even without Magic Find, Celestial still has more overall stats than any other insignia. So the “loss” will not affect its viability. It’s already ridiculously powerful on Engineers and other classes with builds that actually utilize both conditions and direct damage, especially when roaming in WvW.
Hahahaha. What? You can’t be serious. It has more stats but not all stats are equally effective and some are downright ineffective. There isn’t a build in the game that weights every stat equally.
it’s not like he did anything while he was here, who cares
Probably because anet wouldnt let him. He couldnt find ways to tie gem store items into his dungeons, so they canned him. LOL
Take your sense of entitlement to a subscription game.
This isn’t a WvW game. How have you not noticed this in the last 12 months?
No MMO is good for esport. Not a GW2-specific issue.
How is the detonate anything like a blast? I can see some kind of argument for the skill itself but not the detonate.
Well… it is a detonatation. It certainly resembles a blast more than Warrior and Ranger’s warhorn 5 does…
It does? I’ve never notice any animation for it at all except the bubble simply vanishing.
I think the reason many consider it ‘lackluster’ by adding protection, is that a Hammer Guardian can offer the same protection far more regularly and, when symbol traited, can potentially offer it with almost constant up time and across a fairly wide area. … while healing allies and damaging opponents. As part of a natural attack chain.
The shield ability just has a hard time stacking up to that. I too would like to see it changed, just not absolutely certain how.
Yes but shield 4 can be combined with a main hand weapon like mace which provides permanent regen and heals on 3rd autoattack. And you get the projectile shield. Hammer is a 1-trick pony in PvE, while shield can combine with other weapons to have many tricks.
I have only done fractals up to 18, but it doesn’t seem to me like anything is really necessary. Every fight can be done successfully by every group composition. I don’t see this changing in the next 10+ lvls. Given that, do whatever you want and see what you feel works for you.
Skill and build > gear any day of the week. Your a bad pvp’er if you think gear carries in this game lol.
I don’t think anyone said gear carries in this game. However, I’ve yet to see anyone out in WvW naked and PvP’ing. Point being, the combined stats will make a difference for those roaming. Just how big of a majority that is is anyone’s guess.
It’s not going to make a difference until more ascend gear is released. That’s one thing I like that Anet did, they released them in parts. First trinkets, now weapons, then later armor. It’s not like they just released it all at once and said lol.
The problem is that weapons have an extra stat that directly scales damage independently of other stats. A person with only ascended weapon will do nearly as much damage as someone with exotic weapon and ascended gear in every other slot, including armor. ANet goofed on their combat formulas and stuck themselves with this situation. Unfortunate, really.
For WvW? Staff
For PvE? GSYou use staff to do damage in WvW?
You use staff for a multitude of reasons…tagging is a large part, healing, might building, line of warding, etc. – do you actually play WvW or simply roam with your zerker guardian? ^^
My point is if you’re not using it as a DPS source then it’s almost pointless to upgrade that item first. None of what you said is at all dependent upon the weapon damage.
What’s the point of shield in PvE? Just go axe-mace/GS if you want damage. Personally I like axe/warhorn because condition removal is good support that doesn’t rely on crappy healing gear.
106 gold is totally not worth it. If you run fractals, just get your free ascended back piece (though it takes quite some time). If you don’t, the difference between exotic and ascended on the slot with the least stats is completely insignificant anyway.
Unlike most other ascended items, ascended back pieces are around double the stats of their exotic counterparts. That’s why it might be worth it.
Guild Assassin’s Backpack + Exquisite Ruby Jewel:
47 Power
31 Precision
4% Crit DamagePrototype Fractal Capacitor + Ascension:
54 Power
35 Precision
5% Crit DamageWho told you they had double the stats?
Double base stats is what I meant. At least for soldiers gear, I haven’t researched any other stat combos.
Except ascended backs can’t use jewels, so comparing base stats is irrelevant.
Ask the bigger question…why has this tier of gear being introduced?..we were told exotic is the highest, and ear grind wouldn’t happen..yet here we are, grinding for gear,…again…
They haven’t said that for a long, long, long time. I think it was about 6 months ago they were talking about gradual release of ascended over the course of the year and that ascended would be the top tier for quite a while (implying that there would be upgrades from ascended at some point).
here’s a fast forward of the price of Globs during the livestream.
That’s awesome.
This thread is laughable because
a) it takes a puny amount of gold and time to level crafting to 400
b) the actual “crafting” part of crafting an ascended weapon is not significant because you’ll spend far, far, far more time gathering mats
c) ascended weapons are available from other sources
d) pvp players in every single game ever created have a huge sense of entitlement where they feel like they should get the easier version of obtaining anything in the game since they shouldn’t have to do anything but their favorite activity
Stop settling for mediocre junk, and start expecting better. It’s the only way stuff will get fixed and game companies will strive to be better. Game companies have been shipping half-made games and buggy content all because players expect it now. Raise your bars and start expecting better. We shouldn’t expect the norm to be buggy unfinished games. We need to start expecting the best so game companies will stop giving us junk.
You don’t understand game development. Games have always been buggy. Always. It has nothing to do with player expectations and everything to do with the reality of programming and the vastly increasing complexity and scope of today’s games.
That DPS is the only role in the game.
Are you saying shield 5 should be a blast finisher instead of a combo field or in addition to? Surely you meant instead of?
I was thinking when you detonate the shield bubble for healing. Yeah, and no problem with dropping the light field – the duration is way to short to synergise with anything.
Shield #4 doesn’t feel right as a finisher imho – but stun/daze fits perfectly
How is the detonate anything like a blast? I can see some kind of argument for the skill itself but not the detonate.
It’s lackluster to add long duration protection to yourself and several allies? That’s easily better than half the weapon skills in the game.
For WvW? Staff
For PvE? GS
You use staff to do damage in WvW?
Same build as for everything else in PvE. Dying in PvE doesn’t happen because everyone is a pro dodger.
This made me cringe =/
I visibly shuddered
I imagine you must constantly have violent fits given every 3rd thread is some idiot sporting his latest PVT build for PvE. Worst…gear…ever.
WvW:
I feel like I should caution you about Cleric’s gear. While Banner Regen is good, it scales the worst from healing power. I’d only get some if you’ll have other ways to heal your allies via Sigils or something too.
Not sure what you mean here, but regen is one of the best scaling heals that affect other players. It gets 2.5x the contribution that healing signet and adrenal health do. I’m not a fan of banners and banner regen though and it’s our only non-self heal so I’m not really inclined to go cleric’s with it. Was just thinking out loud.
Weapon Strength has a major effect on damage alone. Trinkets weren’t half as bad since they only carried stats.
The difference between just changing a rare dagger to an exotic dagger: negligible stat difference but 15-20% damage output difference.
More info here (my informative posts never get commented on and thus ignored):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Stat-effects-of-Weapons-vs-Trinkets/first#post2732230
They haven’t posted Ascended weapons yet so it’s unconfirmed whether that is the case. It’s also one item slot and the problem would be with Ascended weapons specifically, not with the rest of the gear. 11% stat increase is a lot less than you think it is.
Any other warriors main warhorn? I’m curious to hear about success/liabilities of various warhorn specs in PvE and in WvW. I currently am 10/0/0/30/30 axe/warhorn with knights armor and berserker trinkets, speccing healing shouts with 3 shouts slotted. I stick only to PvE because my limited WvW experience has always been bad. I feel like I do decent damage and I love that I bring massive condition cleansing and boons to my group.
I’ve been tempted to try out 0/25/15/30/0 with sword/warhorn instead and dipping into WvW some. I’m also tempted to slap on cleric’s gear and spec for banner heals but I’m not really sure that would be any good because of regen overlap and other warriors bringing banners as well (there tend to be at least one other warrior in any group).
I understand the confusion. The facts do agree with each other when you consider that ArenaNet is the god of GW and has decreed that what was once is no longer. They decided to change the game by removing Magic Find from gear. They decided that some sets were to be removed completely and replaced with other sets and that Celestial gear would only have the Magic Find removed. They also decided that by doing so, the sets would be balanced based on the new line they created.
Yes, exactly. Thus the confusion. Because they changed the balance, and insist that it remained unchanged. If celestial sets were balanced then, and are balanced now, it is only because the word “balance” got redefined to a different meaning. Especially since the celestial sets were actually inferior to the rest even before MF removal.
Which is completely beside the point, by the way. The point is, that lot of people made/bought celestial gear only because it contained MF stat. many did that even before Anet reached decision about MF removal.
In other words, they did exactly the same thing as people that bought/crafted double stat + MF sets. And yet they are treated differently.They will have the same combat effectiveness. Do you really feel the need to have more boon duration than givers with your already having more crit dmg than zerker?
We all know the % boon duration on giver’s is an utter joke and for whatever reason, not balanced.
And get off the crit dmg thing already. It’s irrelevant as the other stats are so bad that a percent or two is meaningless. No one cares about the crit dmg, distribute it to the other stats for all that it matters. What people do care about is taking an already bad set that had some limited appeal because of the magic find and taking away about the only thing it had going for it. This is made even more frustrating because it was recently introduced and made time-gated to craft (harder than any other armor set).
You should try permeating wrath sometime.
I didn’t know that the measure for good damage was packs of trash, and that burn damage was remotely significant for guardians who wear no +condition gear.
How exactly do you define “healway.” You can go 30 honor and 30 virtues without going full up on healing gear. The virtues line offers just as much if not far more dps than valor depending on the situation.
Hardly. 30% crit dmg vs…..nothing. Certainly nothing beyond 15.
If you want to do super low damage, go Healway.
I think the dance moves in this game are awesome. The asura robot dance with the uh uh uh sounds while doing the moves blew me away when I first did it. Far superior to any WoW crap.
You are making an assumption about stat allocation that is simply not true. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the method for stat allocation is affected by concentration in any stat rather than simply the total stats. So 200 in a stat has a higher budget than 100 in 2 stats. That makes it likely that MF was part of the budget in celestial gear especially since it obviously was part of the budget for explorers.
The fact that the other MF sets are getting new stats and Celestial is losing a stat indicates that my assumption simply is true and that your assumption is wrong.
I’ve got developer action supporting my argument, you don’t.
Except that the situations are not comparable. They are removing the other sets completely. Maybe they don’t want to remove celestial but don’t want to fiddle with the stats either (too much extra work?), so went with the weak solution of not doing anything even though that leaves it subpar. There is a long history of developers not doing the “fair” or “correct” thing because it takes too much time or resources.
There are diminishing returns. Adding 10 power when you have 100 power is not the same as adding 10 power when you have 1,000 power. As you increase power, eventually you reach a point where the increase is only marginal. I believe that there was a thread many months ago with stating this but with toughness.
Theres no dminishing returns in GW2. Period.
Adding 10 is adding 10 power and incresing you damage for that 10 power for same amount whatever your start point is.
The effect of that 10 power is less the more of it you have. Some people just don’t understand relative increases I guess.
They clearly went too far with healing signet.
I’m glad they are releasing Ascended gear. This game isn’t compelling enough to play just for the sake of playing. An MMO without progression is laughable.
Here’s what you’re missing. They already made a game like that. It’s called Every Other MMORPG On The Market. And guess what? That game has never been able to hold my attention. EOMMORPGotM has sold well because lots of folks like that style of play, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But a huge part of Guild Wars 2’s marketing was to people who were burned out by playing EOMMORPGotM. I log in and run off to WvW and revel in the fact that I can play in a massivley multiplayer online space and not have to worry about running on the gear treadmill. Part of why I don’t like leveling alts is because I have to start looking at gear again instead of just vendoring it.
As soon as a game starts feeling like a job, I stop. I have a job for that purpose, except it gives me actual money. I am not alone in this sentiment, and GW2 was supposed to be a little paradise for those with similar mindsets to mine. We were the folks who kept GW1 alive, and that’s why we generally feel so betrayed by this pandering to the target audience of EOMMORPGotM.
“Guild Wars 2 is about having fun, not grinding to the fun reward.”
GW2 doesn’t feel like a job to me. I play it maybe 10 hours per week and I’m happy there’s gear progression.
I didn’t know EOMMORPGotM had dynamic events and no-healer/tank dungeons and WvW and rewards for achievements and world exploration and jumping puzzles and awesome holiday events. Maybe you should consider stepping outside of WvW. Go play Warhammer Online or DAoC if that’s all you want to do.
I would not be opposed to adding Gold or Karma +%, but my main point is that Celestial does not need compensation for the removal of Magic Find because while the other sets had Magic Find at the expense of their stat allocation, Celestial had Magic Find in addition to its stat allocation.
You are making an assumption about stat allocation that is simply not true. It is entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that the method for stat allocation is affected by concentration in any stat rather than simply the total stats. So 200 in a stat has a higher budget than 100 in 2 stats. That makes it likely that MF was part of the budget in celestial gear especially since it obviously was part of the budget for explorers.
The Celestial chest piece has 270 stat points before you even get to the Crit Damage or Magic Find putting it out in front of every other gear set in the game, offset by a lack of focus.
Which is a HUGE offset. Enough so that it’s basically inferior to any other set.
Ascended Trinkets are 5% better than Exotics. Getting Ascended Trinkets isn’t even necessary if you aren’t planning on doing Fractals. What do you even want to do with 5% better Stats? WvW? It’s a big zerg, the 5% more Life, Damage or whatever won’t make a difference if the Weapons and Armor have the same Statistic improvement.
You don’t HAVE to get Ascended Gear if you DON’T WANT. There’s really no need. Yet.
is this actually true. I mean i get 5% better stats but isnt that just one trinket versus another. For example if you have an exotic zerker ring the ascended version is 5% better. Add that up for all 6 trinkets and its alot more than just 5% unless im wrong :p
If they keep the same stat increase across the board (it’s not out of the table for them to increase less or more for different bits of gear) you’d expect to see an increase of about 17% once all gear becomes ascended, assuming they don’t do something like introducing ascended jewels you can apply to exotic, for example.
For example, let’s do the math between Mark of Thethyos Houses (ascended amulet with berserker stats) Vs. a standard exotic berserker amulet
Berserker amulet + exquisite ruby jewel:
Power: 105
Presicion: 79
Crit Damage: 8%Ascended amulet (omiting the fractional for ease of calculations):
Power: 126 – 20% increase
Prescion: 96 – 21% increase
Crit Damage: 9% – 12% increase
Average: 17%So if every piece in average increases in 17% in stats, that’s the full amount you’d expect to see as an increase between a full exotic and a full ascended character.
You got the stats wrong for the amulets. It’s:
Power: 115
Precision: 79
Crit Damage: 8%
vs.
Power: 126
Precision: 85
Crit Damage: 9%
Calculating a % upgrade is also misleading, especially in the case of Crit Damage because it doesn’t account for the base value.
Ascended Trinkets are 5% better than Exotics. Getting Ascended Trinkets isn’t even necessary if you aren’t planning on doing Fractals. What do you even want to do with 5% better Stats? WvW? It’s a big zerg, the 5% more Life, Damage or whatever won’t make a difference if the Weapons and Armor have the same Statistic improvement.
You don’t HAVE to get Ascended Gear if you DON’T WANT. There’s really no need. Yet.
is this actually true. I mean i get 5% better stats but isnt that just one trinket versus another. For example if you have an exotic zerker ring the ascended version is 5% better. Add that up for all 6 trinkets and its alot more than just 5% unless im wrong :p
You’re wrong. If every piece gives you a 5% upgrade, your overall stats from gear increase by 5%. Currently since there are only ascended trinkets, you get less than that 5% overall. Keep in mind as well that we start with 900ish base stats which aren’t affected by any upgrade so even a full set of all ascended gear will be less than a 5% stat gain (assuming 5% is the number, thought it might be 8%).
Edit, i would like to add that it seems like GW2 is a game all around money. If you don’t like to mind money, that’s tough for you, you have to farm because money means everything. It’s like a virtual world of capitalism. It sickens me.
I always had the same impression. Almost everything can be achieved from the TP. Very little is achievable only through “adventuring”.
You mean like gearing up? Full sets of armor, weapons, ascended gear, etc. all available through “adventuring”. The only thing that isn’t are accessories (though some are available with karma) but they have yet to put ascended accessories on the TP so you really don’t need that much anyway.
I feel your pain OP. I have never once gotten an exotic weapon drop. Only one time have I gotten a good rare drop – still not a precursor. The few other rares I ended up with were junk that weren’t worth anything. I give up on drops and BL chests. Period. Total garbage. I play only because I want to at this point. No legendaries for me… no insta-gold drops. Just fun. When I stop having fun, I’m outta here.
I stopped having fun the moment they introduced the ridiculous champion farms. Have been playing other games since then, and tbh, I wish I had quit way earlier. The game became more and more of a chore and that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.
Have you considered not farming them? It sounds like your need to accumulate massive amounts of useless gold is a personal issue.
You’re forced to.
What? You get full set of armor and weapon from dungeons, WvW, or karma. You buy accessories on the AH for less than 10g for a full set, or spend karma. You buy sigils and runes on the AH for less than 10g for a full set. All that gold is earned through natural gameplay. After that, what else is there? It’s all fluff and irrelevant stuff like skins or bag slots.
So the only person being forced to is you, by yourself and your need for massive amounts of unnecessary gold.
I feel your pain OP. I have never once gotten an exotic weapon drop. Only one time have I gotten a good rare drop – still not a precursor. The few other rares I ended up with were junk that weren’t worth anything. I give up on drops and BL chests. Period. Total garbage. I play only because I want to at this point. No legendaries for me… no insta-gold drops. Just fun. When I stop having fun, I’m outta here.
I stopped having fun the moment they introduced the ridiculous champion farms. Have been playing other games since then, and tbh, I wish I had quit way earlier. The game became more and more of a chore and that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.
Have you considered not farming them? It sounds like your need to accumulate massive amounts of useless gold is a personal issue.
Go to any other games forums right now, and you’ll not see a single post about this issue in those other mmo’s, not a single post.
So you’re saying if we take away legendary weapons completely that the game will be better? Otherwise there’s very little difference between GW loot and loot in other games like WoW.
the gap between a high value item and crap is just too big. i was hoping anything will change for good with the loot revamp, but its seem to be even worse now. the day any enjoyable game releases im done here too. the hole loot situation is a flaw.
It’s not flawed at all. You can get the best tier of armor from several sources without spending any gold at all. The only reason for gold is to purchase skins or upgrade your account with gems.