Guild Wars 2

Part of the reason toughness sucks is because it stacks with armor. It should work exactly like power, as a separate damage reduction.

Protection is too powerful though. 20% is far more realistic (and much closer to the offensive version, fury).

It makes much more sense to me to have Aegis block all attacks for 0.5s after first attack. Stacking is just too powerful vs. one opponent.

I don’t agree this should be the case. There would clearly be situations where it is unreasonably powerful and guardians would start every fight with a full stack of aegis…that’s nuts.

If anything should stack it should be damage and healing effects from different sources.

Stelli.3607:

Please look at the trade off. Do you really think that 190 hp every 3 seconds, meaning 63 hp every seconds are worth 1250 healing power? There is food that gives you more healing per second! If you put the 1250 not in healing power but in vitality you have 12500 hp more, that is for sure better.. seriously, the “buff” of adrenal health is way too low. Investing over 1250 healing power should give you much sustain, like guardians get with dodging. 1 hp each point of healing power + base and we can talk about going down that line.

Shout heals.

I believe it gets converted to 3 stacks of might because that’s what the warrior warhorn trait does.

Zaxares.5419:

Don’t forget to throw on a health gain food for even more regeneration goodness!

No.

Healing power adds a significant increase to its effect. 1200ish heal power adds over 50% to the base value. That’s better than any of our heal skills benefit from heal power.

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SADwGETO2U

This is sustain, it means your health is going up instead of staying at 17k forever…

Sorry but this is what you don’t have.

You mean cleric’s gear with healing/defensive traits? Have you considered doing the same with your warrior before you cry about this?

dooger.2640:

Xsorus.2507:

You warriors are aware you only get substain when you actually gear for it right?

My guardian does not need to gear +heal and has insane sustain, so does my rogue

Next.

Not solo you don’t. Maybe in a group where you can exploit AH with it’s crazy high base values that don’t benefit from heal gear anyway.

That healway guardian build in the video is cleric’s gear + defensive/support traits. Put a warrior in those fights with cleric’s gear and 0/0/20/30/20 and you’d do just as fine. Or are you seriously suggesting that guardian dps > warrior dps when both have no damage increasing traits and wearing the same gear?

Edit: That guardian also wouldn’t have beat the elementalist in the OP’s video or anything else with sufficient defensive capabilities.

What MMOs would those be?

phokus.8934:

You’re always going to get that with Scepter as that’s how most of the ranged travel time abilities work. And it would be ridiculously overpowered if it homed in on players. The only change I can even remotely on the table is making it pass through players (one player, let’s say).

I don’t think you know what ridiculously overpowered means. It wouldn’t even be mildly overpowered.

As long as it’s not vigor/swiftness I’m happy. We get those already from the warhorn skills and bleed/snares which are the most common conditions.

Nothing fundamental has changed.

It’s reasonably easy to get your full set of exotics (if you happen to have a stat set obtainable through the easier dungeons), then after that there is no progression so you have no choice but to grind for a legendary (insane) or do WvW and/or PvP just because you like it.

The leveling experience in this game was better than any game I’ve ever played, but shortly after you hit 80 the game basically ends imo.

The whole point of using h.signet is for the passive regen, which didn’t get buffed at all. I don’t even think it’s possible to construct a scenario where h.signet beats healing surge. Even if you allow 20 seconds of regen + the use of the signet, surge still heals for more (bonus: surge has faster cast!). That’s how you know your skill is utter crap.

Defektive.7283:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

I’m missing something here. when did healing surge use adrenaline? is that changing soon too?

Gives adren not uses.

The remove condi is when we gain a bar of adren not use it.

So if you use Healing surge and gain 3 bars, you’ll also lose 3 condis (hypothetically).

You need to read the description again. It says for every bar spent.

tigirius.9014:

JETWING.2759:

Letf fix “Quick Breathing” and Signet of Stamina" of Warrior.

Conversion could be:
- Burn, Bleed, Poison and Torment = Regeneration (DOT = HoT)
- Weakeness = Vigor (low endurance regen = high endurance regen)
- Paralise = Aegis (unable dodge and escape of skills = block incoming attack)
- Chiled = Might (skill usage/mov spd reduction = extra dmg)
- Criple = Switfness (Ok!)
- Blind = Fury (Ok!)
- Fear = Stability (Ok!)
- Confusion = Retaliation (Ok!)
- Vulnerability = Protection (Ok!)

In atual mode, warhorn #5 are useless cause chiled and bleeding grant vigor, and warhonr #5 alredy grants 12s vigor with 16s CD. warhorn #4 alredy cancels chiled/paralise/criple and grants perma swiftness, there is no reason for more swiftness in warhonr #4 and #5. I think this is waste of treat points that affect the warrior.

Signet of Stamine’s passive efect need stack with vigor for grant some advantage, like another Signets that stacks with swiftness and gives advantage in mov spd for another classes.

I think this two changes meke the things more just

Trust me warriors don’t need buffs of any kind. They need nerfs especially in PVE.

Warhorn warriors are OP in PvE? News to everyone…

Arken.3725:

Also, I was surprised they didn’t merge the Symbol traits(assuming this is final). Still too many majors to choose from when they’re better options available.

They aren’t real. Duh.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Yaki.9563:

Patch notes are obviously fake. I can’t think of any MMO that I’ve ever played that basically adjusted every single ability in the game in one patch.

You’re blowing how many changes that are on there out of proportion, considering most changes are things like aftercast and while they may have a big impact won’t totally change the game.

It doesn’t matter if they are miniscule irrelevant changes. There is still such a massive number that it’s almost a complete reworking of the entire game. In one, non-hyped patch. Yea right.

LOL @ all the discussion on fake changes.

Shao.7049:

I should know this but what are “procs”?

It’s when you gain an effect from an action, like getting might from a crit.

Magi’s is better for support but you’ll do slightly worse damage. This is for PvE, where you can regularly hit mobs and proc EM and Vigor. Toughness is highly overrated…look at how many ppl run berserkers in PvE successfully.

Patch notes are obviously fake. I can’t think of any MMO that I’ve ever played that basically adjusted every single ability in the game in one patch.

restoration.2806:

Broadicea.8294:

You can do the story dungeons as you’re levelling up, but honestly I’d just wait until you’re 80 to do the explorable modes. Hitting 80 is really easy, so you wouldn’t be waiting long.

Other than that, I’d suggest finding a good core group of friends/guildies who you can reliably group up with for dungeons.

I disagree this is the reason so much trash is doing AC now. Start at 35 and contribute immediately to each dungeon as soon as you hit the recommended level. That way when you are 80 you know what your doing. I have 80s but I also have lower level chars who I play dungeons with. The idea is to know how to play rather than be solely level 80 but still be terrible at the game. Find a helpful guild and keep leveling. Don’t skip dungeons just cause your not level 80.

Hmm, have a lvl 35 clueless noob or a lvl 80 clueless noob…I’ll take the lvl 80 thanks. Your post implies that somehow beyond all reason the lvl 35 is going to magically learn faster or something than the lvl 80.

Dungeons are broken in GW2 regardless of any overhauls. The reward system (all dungeons give same rewards) combined with the dramatic difference in time required (thanks largely to the ANet endorsed ability to skip trash) results in a 1-2 paths that get run repeatedly and 20+ others that get completely neglected. I see no indication that ANet is even thinking about addressing any of this and they’ll just be squandering resources tweaking dungeons to no effect until they do.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Stop using AH. You will notice the best guardians don’t use the trait, or much of any investment in Valor at all.

Before you complain about classes being underpowered, you should examine if you are playing them right. IMO guardians are the second-best class in the game, just behind engineers, but it’s a bit of a toss-up.

LOL

Agony.3542:

How about making Tactic and Defense Banner useful in Dungeons? They fall short compared to all the other Banners, since you can’t facetank most dungeon bosses anyway, having extra healingpower, toughness, vitality wont help you.

Banner of Strength isn’t great either, since any given attack only benefits from one of the buffs vs. both buffs with Discipline.

Tetra Bug.7134:

I run a banner spec in WvW in groups and the amount of healing it puts out is really unparalleled. You can maintain near perma regen on 20 people. Banners biggest drawback is that they’re clunky. If they had a recall ability that worked at say 3000 range and a burst I’d be over the moon.

You mean you snipe regen from other sources that are possibly even superior. No one needs your crummy 0 healing power regen. Banner regen has to be the most overrated thing on the warrior forums.

Can’t bunker without protection.

DarthInvadeHer.9861:

Did Frodo and Sam just charge through the gates of Mordor? No, they skipped around.
Hadnt they done that, the Lotr series had been pretty short.

You mean they ran through every orc patrol along the way and simply ran until the orcs gave up, even though the hobbits had no way of escaping? Must be a different LotR than the one I remember.

ExaDal.2017:

Kill trash in this game is stupid and useless, why?
1) High health pools
2) High damage output
3) 0 strategy
4) And the most important, no valuable loot, just trash.

So, why you want to kill trash?

Why kill bosses? They are just glorified trash mobs. I should get currency and a chest just for walking in the instance. Heck, why do I even have to spend the silver to go to the instance? I should just be able to click a button in LA and get my loot/currency.

Broadicea.8294:

Ah another “People should play the way I want them to play” post complaining about skipping trash mobs. Never gets old.

I want loot without having to kill any mobs at all, including bosses. Why doesn’t ANet cater to my whims? Any response you suggest will simply be proof that you want me to play how you like to play.

The problem is two-fold. First 40% reduction is not the same as 40% increase. Starting at base damage, a 40% reduction is the equivalent to a 67% increase.

The second problem is the way things stack additively in this game, especially with % decrease. 100% decrease is completely negates the ability, while 100% increase simply doubles the duration. So someone with 100% duration reduction vs. someone with 100000000000000000000% duration increase would mean that the duration would still be 0. That’s horrible game design.

Lets see how it is in practice with just Melandru runes. Melandru runes reduce duration to 75%. Another 40% on top of that then becomes the equivalent of 114% increase. That’s almost 3x as strong as the duration increase food.

Duration decrease food should be slightly more powerful than duration increase food. That’s because you can make a build around duration increase and it affects the majority of your damage, but you can’t do the same thing for your opponents. The real problem is not the 40% value, but the additive stacking.

I’m skeptical that ArenaNet both understands the issue and has the capability to fix it. They will probably just nerf the food to 20% or something instead of addressing the underlying problem. Then the next time something like this happens they’ll again have to nerf the food/trait/ability on a case by case basis. Oh well, math is hard I guess.

Since I quit several months ago there have been updates, but nothing has really changed. I see no reason to come back and play more. So I pay a subscription and play a game that when they do update, contains actual content for me to participate in on a regular basis.

Banner regens are overrated because it just provides a regen boon that doesn’t stack with other regen boons.

Does that stack with vigor?

This is just another example of bad game design. You have to be seriously mathematically deficient to think that additively stacking effects is good especially when it comes to duration reduction.

Navzar.2938:

Please don’t use phrases like diminishing returns without actually know what it means.
Armor does not have diminishing returns. Let’s use a very low 1000 armor as a standard. 2000 armor takes 50% of the damage 1000 armor does. 2500 takes 40%. 3000 takes 33%. Yes, the % is decreasing a smaller amount of the original each time, but that doesn’t mean diminishing returns. 2k armor survives twice as much damage, 2.5k survives 2.5 times the amount, 3k survives times the amount, thus the effect itself is not diminishing. It only appears to be DR because it’s constantly (incorrectly) compared to the original in that view.

There actually is diminishing returns. Just not the gigantic amount some people around here think there is. I showed the math in one of my previous posts.

AlBundy.7851:

lol does Yaki still not understand the 3k armor threshold at this point? This was fact 6 months ago if you know how to use the forums you can search for the posts about it.

I understand your bad math (or faith in someone else’s bad math) and your lack of understanding. But hey, by all means continue your ignorance.

I was under the impression that non-ticking duration effects don’t round, so you are stunned for 2.1 seconds in your example. It’s shoddy programming if they round it either way.

Alt leveling is one of the funnest parts of the game. You get to see a lot of content, play around with different skills, and you get rewards all the time (gear upgrades, leveling, etc.).

Compare this to endgame where you do the same content repeatedly and get no reward.

Without the reward, it’s hard to convince players to risk dying a bunch to learn a fight. Why even bother with dungeons except for fun? Actually the whole game is like that but you die in dungeons more frequently than anything else so I can see why people wouldn’t want to bother.

Nick.6972:

Wouldn’t you love to play extremely hard elite 12 player dungeon which would require 2-3+ hours to complete , which would require you to be skilled, a good player, and require immense teamplay, strategies and preparation?

To spice things up, say, this dungeon would be only open for one time in a week and to enter you would have to pay 5G.
And no waypoints/checkpoints and armor repair.

Personally, I’d love this, I’d even pay arena net for a DLC including this.

As for the rewards, I wouldn’t personally care all that much, perhaps an end chest.

/*********************************************
The question is, why not?

The greater the group size, the less the personal responsibility for each player. Raiding is one of the worst things about WoW and I sure hope that nothing of the sort ever happens in GW2.

But to answer your general question, it’s because a) the rewards wouldn’t be worthwhile thus b) not even the hardcores would do it unless bored. Why develop content that tons of people are going to complain about so that only 1% or less will enjoy?

killahmayne.9518:

Yaki.9563:

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

So you want warriors with nearly 3k armor, 25k hp and ridiculous hp regen?

3k Armor, after 2.7k Armor, armor goes into dimishing returns where it becomes way less, the difference between 2.7k-3k-4k armor is actually very little. Protection pretty much doubles your armor, I find that many people who use the “armor” argument do not know the value of statistics.

Do you? I’ve seen people pull 2.7k out of thin air with no math to back it up. Armor does not scale differently after 2.7k than it does before, so even if there is diminishing returns (which I question), there’s no justification for the 2.7k figure rather than 3.5k or 2.0k.

People like to use 2.7K as a very arbitrary number where they can still keep most of the “cannon” aspect of a glass cannon while still being somewhat survivable.

Armor scales differently for each additional point in armor you add, which means, the more armor you have, the more additional points you put into it sees diminishing returns in damage reduction. You can even test this for yourself on gw2buildcraft.com, the damage reduction values indeed go down even though you add the same constant to toughness every time.

Using the website, for example. Going from 2.7K armor to 3K armor provides a 6.8% damage reduction. However, to get an additional 6.8% damage reduction you need to go from 3K armor to 3,375 armor, an additional 75 armor.

Now, this diminishing return isn’t that huge when you think about it, but you have to consider that 1 point in vitality will increase your eHP much more than 1 point in toughness will if you have been stacking armor and not HP. So in that sense it becomes a diminishing return because you are not making efficient use of your stats.

Another, sort of diminishing return comes from the plethora of damage modifiers that warriors have. Stacking lots of toughness will most likely bring power/precision/crit damage values way down. The way that these damage modifiers stack is that the more power/precision/crit damage you have, the more that you will benefit from these damage modifiers.

In other words, you disproportionately kitten your damage severely at a certain point for some more toughness. And this is made even worse for a warrior because we lack any protection buffs or signets that provide a flat % damage reduction.

So warriors shouldn’t bother with toughness at all. Full berserker. Ok, at least that’s a rational opinion though personally I think it is probably not correct.

EH is not an accurate measure of survivability unless you have no heals at all and take no condition damage. I don’t know about you but my #6 button is a heal and I have access to some passive healing as well. There’s also not many classes that do 0 condition damage.

Daecollo.9578:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/
Here you can see the curves of toughness, after a bit toughness just isn’t worth the investment that you could be putting into other stats to increase your survivability.

Boon Duration/Protection is worth so much more then toughness its not even funny. That is why i’m laughing, because “Protection” gives you 2750 worth of armor in damage reduction. If you combine 2750 toughness with protection, you can lower incoming damage by 33%, then another 33%, Its ridiculous.

I made it simple and easy for you to understand, please reread killahmayne.9518’s posts. Healing Signet deserves a significant passive increase.

Protection has nothing to do with it, because we simply don’t have access to protection. Not only that, but toughness and protection aren’t mutually exclusive. You can have protection and damage reduction from toughness. Protection doesn’t provide 2750 worth of armor unless you happen to have 5580 armor. I don’t know anyone that has that. If you have 2750 armor, protection provides the equivalent of 1355 armor.

You were completely wrong in your previous post about toughness. 1+1=3 might be simple and easy, but it’s wrong so basically useless. I get the feeling that you don’t actually know what you are talking about and are just repeating what you read from other people, and either taking it out of context or misunderstanding it.

The problem is you simply can’t time them consistently if other conditions are present with long durations and/or being continuously reapplied, because the 4 & 5 actions aren’t instant.

Also, the conversion will convert cripple/immobilize to swiftness before removing it with the #4 skill, so you only remove one condition that would have been removed anyway.

Daecollo.9578:

2700 Armor = 32% Damage Reduction. (+1788 Toughness.)

3400 Armor = 46% Damage Reduction. (+2488 Toughness.)

This means after you get 2700 armor, you need 700 more toughness to get 14% DR, AKA it gets less and less and less, that is a whole crap load of toughness (Full Ascended Soldier/Soldier-Soldier gear, its JUST NOT WORTH IT. Imo)

You still didn’t show what 2700 has to do with anything. It’s a number you pulled out of thin air. Why not just say toughness is worthless because it has DR so you shouldn’t bother getting any of it? At least that would be logically consistent.

GW2 wiki gives this as the direct damage formula:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

If that’s the case, the damage reduction for any given amount of armor is:

[1 – (Old Armor / New Armor)] * 100

Armor with no toughness from gear = 2147

2700 Armor, and increase of 553 armor gives you [1- (2147/2700)] * 100 = 20.5% damage reduction

An additional increase of 553 armor gives you [1-(2700/3253)] * 100 = 17% damage reduction

So there is clearly diminishing returns. However, the diminishing returns are not even close to the magnitude you make them out to be. You’d have to be completely irrational to say “20.5% damage reduction is great, but 17% absolutely sucks”. That leaves you with 3 logical options:

1. You think 20.5% damage reduction isn’t worth 553 stat points and can argue your case based on math and/or personal experience. Consequently you don’t wear any toughness gear.
2. You think 20.5% damage reduction is worth 553 stat points, but only barely. You base this on math and distinguish between 20% and 17% in your calculations comparing it with other stat effects.
3. You think both 20.5% and 17% are worth 553 stat points and can argue your case based on math and/or personal experience. Then you wear as much toughness as you can (with perhaps some exceptions on specific pieces because they offer exceptional value in other stats, like crit damage).

You have done none of those and the little math you have shown is not only wrong, but shows that you don’t understand the concept of damage reduction in the first place.

Daecollo.9578:

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

So you want warriors with nearly 3k armor, 25k hp and ridiculous hp regen?

3k Armor, after 2.7k Armor, armor goes into dimishing returns where it becomes way less, the difference between 2.7k-3k-4k armor is actually very little. Protection pretty much doubles your armor, I find that many people who use the “armor” argument do not know the value of statistics.

Do you? I’ve seen people pull 2.7k out of thin air with no math to back it up. Armor does not scale differently after 2.7k than it does before, so even if there is diminishing returns (which I question), there’s no justification for the 2.7k figure rather than 3.5k or 2.0k.

Phira.3970:

Warriors need this trait:

Convert 5% of hp into power

With 38k hp, that’d be +1900 power. Screw 5% armor -> power.

Um, you know that vitality gives 10 hp right? So that would be 10x better than any of the current 5% convertion traits….not OP at all. Might as well ask for 100% hp to power conversion.

Sadly, you rarely get a decent boon because the priority on removal favors the weakest conditions like bleed which gets instantly reapplied anyway. So you end up with tons of vigor and almost never get protection or aegis or regen.

I ran Axe/Warhorn with heal shouts and it was ok I guess. Overall I felt like it wasn’t needed because conditions get reapplied so quickly and the boons provided are so weak.

I hate regen banners because you provide weak-sauce regen that doesn’t stack with regen from other classes. You’re much better off doing heal shouts imo because that never gets squandered.