toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
my scenario proposes that vitality and toughness are balanced. the total hp was low, the investment to vitality is substantial and damage reduction was realistic.
None of this is true. 25% damage reduction = 25% health increase? Um…no. Even if there were no healing this wouldn’t be balanced:
Player A has 2000 hp and 25% damage reduction. Player B has 2500 hp and 0% reduction. They both get hit for 2500. Player A takes 1875 damage and lives with 125 hp. Player B takes 2500 damage and dies.
Do you see now how ridiculous your “example” was?
Neither, full zerker.
I wasted so much gold on Tou/Vit gear just to find out stats won’t protect you in this game.
Warrior is all about evading damage and dealing extreme DPS; anything else is gimping yourself.
Sure seems this way to me too.
LOL @ facedout. I wonder how people learn this stuff.
for all the thoughness fans out there, Condition damage will eat you out in a flash if you dont have some vitality, Poison + Bleed and you are dead, even having just poison will make you suffer a lot more that a guardian with some vitality on
If you got low health, you pack condition removal, especially when you will go and finish some condi heavy maps.
Condi removal is player discretion, not a limitation of a mechanic.
Pretty much this, pure of voice, absolute resolution, Purity, Inscribed Removal, Signet of resolve, Smite Condition, Contemplation of purity, purging flames. Thats not even counting runes/sigils. Also, almost all of those traits can be picked up at the same time as well, granted thats overkill and would gimp your build… kinda… but yeah, we have pretty much the best condition removal in the game, so it should not be something you worry about when choosing gear.
It’s still a factor because conditions get rapidly reapplied, faster than you can remove them. There are also many fights where you get hit for multiple conditions at once. Yes, Guardians can great at removing conditions (should you choose to do so…though I don’t agree that is the best path to take if you’re gearing for healing) but that doesn’t mean you are condition-free.
Note: Warhorn warriors have better condition removal than Guardians (except maybe x/x/x/30/20 with soldier’s, though that leaves out AH).
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
Doesn’t reflect the actual values? Just multiply the HP by a factor and you get the rough estimate.
my example is controlled and unbiased and is pinpointed to compare toughness and vitality in almost precise terms.
your values are biased towards vitality and an overexagerration. 2000 vs 25000? 5% damage reduction? so you mean i traded 23000 health points for 5% damage reduction? i loled.
I guess YOUR example doesn’t reflect the actual values.
You exaggerated and skewed the values. I just upped the ante to show how assigning warped values not based on actual game data can make any sort of result you want.
Would I be wrong in saying that after all those posts the concensus seems to be:
1. Gear inspection for names of items so we can look up skins
2. AR to be visible
3. MF to be visibleI think that is a whole lot different from a complete gear inspection, while providing the more hardcore players the information they are looking for (no more people dieing in fractal lvl 20+ for having 0 AR). What do you guys think about this?
2 and 3 definitely.
I support inspecting gear only because of MF. If there wasn’t MF, I wouldn’t really care. Maybe they can make a MF buff so players can see what your total MF% is.
SE paths 1 and 3 aren’t difficult and you can get a group fairly easily through gwlfg.com. I don’t know about path 2, haven’t tried it as the standard is to go for just 1 and 3 (2 is maybe long? not sure).
I’m rethinking going for Knight’s though. PvE seems to be all about damage output and incoming damage tends to be either a) spikes that kill you no matter what or b) stupid crazy amounts of condition damage. Why bother with inconsistent 30% damage reduction if I can gain 40% damage increase instead? I have to crunch the numbers.
You can get all Magi exotic accessories at the temples now, except for the crests or whatever the things are called you slot into them.
This argument is kind of funny because as Kahrgan says, full support is almost pointless in the current game so we’re arguing over which inferior gear setup is best. That said, I still have a lot of fun on my inferior Guardian. WTB heals that are more than 600 range so I don’t have to chase after ranged players.
toughness versus vitality?
say player A has 2000 health and has 25 percent damage reduction and player B has 2500 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 500 health and leave person B with 500 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1500 health and person B with 1500 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person A will have 375 health and person B will be dead.
so toughness > vitality
Nice made up numbers that don’t reflect actual health and damage reduction values. Here’s my turn:
say player A has 2000 health and has 5 percent damage reduction and player B has 25000 health and no damage reduction. a spike damage of 2000 will leave person A with 100 health and leave person B with 23000 health. Assuming that they heal for 1000. so after healing, person A will have 1100 health and person B with 24000 health. say another spike damage hits both of them with 1500. Person B will have 22500 health and person A will be dead.
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
Only true if you take consistent damage, never get spiked, don’t take much condition damage, and don’t get back to full health during the fight. That doesn’t sound like GW2 PvE.
Without toughness your getting spiked higher, making the healing less significant.
Getting spiked slightly higher, but Vitality gives you a lot more health.
Well, I counted three:
Empowering Might
Vigorous Precision
Glacial HeartIncidentally, I also counter three for Warrior (or four, if you count in Sharpened Axes). Engineer seems to have five. You are welcome to do a count yourself.
EM alone is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the Warrior ones combined.
Im just going to lump all on crit things into stuff cause Guardians just for some reason have by far less than any other class. This post would be forever long if I listed out each trait that adds a bonuses for critting for all other classes. Either it debuffs or adds a condition to your target. Guardians have hardly any of those compared to every other profession. Radiance is our Precion or Crit chance trait and also offers Condition Damage and there isnt a single thing that gives anything for landing a crit. Every single other class has Bleeds or Burns or Weakness or Vulnerability on Crit except Guardians. Whats the point of even having a condition/crit chance oriented trait like Radiance if by putting points into it theres nothing that lets you proc anything on crits?
Haha Guardian has the best on-crit stuff of any class. EM is OP, might to the entire group on crit and if you have AH, that’s 70 healing to you per party member. Vigor on crit is also amazingly good.
Well when they make precision/toughness/healing gear then this argument will be worthwhile. As it stands, you’re giving up vigor and group might procs as well as possibly lifesteal procs for what very well may be a nonexistant gain in survivability. Even if toughness were better, I’d rather add that extra support to my group through dodge heals and might.
Look up on wiki why you shouldnt mix healing power with AH. Wait, I’ll save you the trip. AH takes advantage of 1% of your healing power. Food for thought.
This is one of the problems with AH. It’s far too strong without healing power.
toughness is damage reduction. vitality is damage buffer. you take the exact amount of damage if you have 0 toughness so that means over time, toughness will do you more good.
Only true if a) you never get spike damage b) you take little condition damage c) you never get back to full health in a fight (wearing Vit gear) and d) the fight lasts long enough for the toughness reduction to become greater than the extra health from vitality. Considering how my health spikes from full, to low, to full, to low, while most long-term consistent damage seems to come from conditions, it isn’t readily apparent that those criteria are met. Spouting wisdom from other MMO’s where healer mana conservation is paramount does not make it the right choice in GW2.
Magi > Cleric. Hmm…proc EM and Vigor or not….
Vitality is also better than toughness in GW2 PvE. People are just taking their thinking from other games and trying to apply it here.
not to mention the damage. the more you do, the less you take over time, that should be taken into consideration for the fact that group support, the staff is better… in solo dps the greatsword is better also because of its crowd control. the hammer is even better at giving protection boons and single target than the mace + offhand is also.
If you’re using a Staff or Mace, the damage difference is not shortening the fight by any significant amount.
the problem is, every other weapons outshines the mace when you start getting into build specifics…. like healing + altruistic healing.
the staff far outshines it. it can’t keep up the healing like a staff can simply because the staff turns into a healing machine with AH on (numbers 2-3-and 4 ALL do large amounts of healing with AH on). 1 skill makes the mace obsolete in healing.
and the staff still outshines it in damage because you dont miss nearly as much and it adds up over time. plus keeping your distance while doing dps is far better than being in it jusrt so you can use your block skill on the mace.
So I guess healing your group doesn’t matter. Typical AHderp build mentality.
Not to mention that….gasp!….you can switch back and forth between weapons while Empower is on cooldown.
The issue is that toughness causes Healing power to be more effective. Only giving you straight vitality causes your health pool to become huge, while not mitigating as much damage. The healing power wont keep making up for the difference as say a glass cannon hits you for 6k, you can dodge heal twice to get back 4k, your still 2k down. With a 3k+ armor from added tougness that hit might only do 3k, where as your heal is going to still heal for 4k, netting you actual over healing. Increasing toughness is far better for healing power than increasing vitality.
Only true if you take consistent damage, never get spiked, don’t take much condition damage, and don’t get back to full health during the fight. That doesn’t sound like GW2 PvE.
Magi > Clerics for Guardians in PvE imo. Non-healing stat gear is even better than both, but whatever…I like to gimp myself and pretend I’m a healer of sorts.
Just further evidence that toughness and defensive stats are unnecessary. Full berserkers ftw.
Most dungeons have a faster path and slower paths. Personally I think path rewards should be based on the difficulty of the dungeon, not universal. I think that if you’re in a path of a dungeon that takes twice as long you should get more tokens.
This is the change I want to see the most. It’s disheartening that the 1 hour slog you just did earned you the same amount of tokens as the 20 min alternate path you could have chosen.
I would really like to see how many they actually sell – 3 mill gw2 sold and the retention rate is so so poor and so few playing now.
LOL?
I wish I could boot every Warrior who goes Rifle in PvE.
What do you mean? Healing Surge heals for a good amount.
Dear OP, would you be so kind to define terms: “Extreme”, “Very high”, “Maxed”?
With this build, even in the worst possible conditions you get higher DPS than any other non-boon based build.
The dmg multiplier goes from +38% (only 4 boons), to 48% (when OMM is active) to 58% (when 9 boons).
The average damage bonus is 48%, about 25% more than a normal full glass cannon.It’s also worth nothing that a Warrior with protection has very high survivability.
The damage is a lot lower than the standard 20/20/x/x/x build. You give up might stacks on crit and gain…what exactly? Not to mention you can get all the same damage benefits of from boons by going 20/20/x/10/x and still have 20 points left to spend. So no, it’s not the highest damage. In fact, it’s not even higher than the standard GS build.
Everything has higher survivability with protection. GS warrior in berserkers isn’t any more survivable than anything else in berserkers, actually less so. You get protection for 5s every 48s, that’s negligible. So you really have low survivability.
Movement is quite good, though not nearly as good as if you had Mobile Strikes.
They already posted that they are going to be adding more stat combinations to ascended gear. And no, they don’t think that Knight’s is OP…that’s ridiculous. If anything, Berserker’s is OP seeing as how mitigation stats aren’t needed that much and crit damage has such a large increase in damage output relative to precision and power.
Magi’s > Cleric’s anyway. LOL @ power when you you can be getting might stacks, vigor, and lifesteal from food. Not to mention Vitality is generally superior to Toughness because a) this game doesn’t have a steady stream of damage, it’s burst and b) Toughness doesn’t even work vs. conditions. The downside is that you do less damage than Cleric’s because Power has a much greater damage increasing effect than Precision, but your damage is miniscule compared to the real DPS anyway so whatever.
Events is still the most hit or miss since you can go for hours without seeing 5 events in normal open world gameplay, if you’re unlucky. Even if you know where to go it still takes the longest of all of them.
It’s the fifth, and I’ve got all my monthly done except for just a few more salvages.
People are so friggin lazy and entitled.
Thanks Obama!
I know, all the investment bankers playing this game ruining it for us hard working republicans…oh wait.
Any complaints towards the monthly and daily achievements are and were unwarranted.
Hell, they were pretty much perfect before the patch, now it seems a bit too easy and rewards players who simply don’t deserve completion to begin with.
They weren’t perfect because the fractal requirement restricted it to lvl 80’s geared enough to do fractals, meaning any newish player who didn’t play 15 hours a day wasn’t going to get the monthly done for a couple months in a row.
That being said… Is it really, absolutely going to kill you to do 5 Dungeon runs over the course of a month?
Probably not, but 5 dungeons a month are one more than I’ve done in the whole existence of GW2 (AC & CM (plus one failed CM explo attempt in week one with no one being above lvl 50) story in week one; Fraktal 10 and Fraktal 5 last week).
I know that I could be done with it in an hour or so, if I did fractals, because each of the minidungeons seems to count as one dungeon finished. It’s not the time it would need that bothers me, it’s just that I would have to do something that I wouldn’t normally do.
As you can probably see from my dungeon history above, PVE is not my favourite part of the game. I’ve played PVE till ~lvl 40 and since then only WvW. I’ve been lvl 80 since months and have 30% map completion. I don’t do PVE! Not other than a bit map completion when levelling a new toon, so that he has at least a few utility skills for WvW.
It’s not about the monthly being too hard. I haven’t played a lot but have made quite significant progress in all categories but the dungeon one, where there’s still a glaring 0. I just don’t get, why they always put things into the monthly that force you to play in a special way.
The first monthly ever in the game was quite good for me (the only one I actually did finish). Probably the hardest thing about that was the requirement to get a few 100k xp without dieing. But you could get that done in every part of the game, be it dungeons, map pve or WvW. But afterwards it was always about some seasonal stuff or dungeons…
Then why do you even care about completing the monthly? Just keep on doing WvWvW like you currently do…
When talking about Ret builds, you have to know their greatest strength is when players attack them. This means you want to survive more.
That is a problem. Warriors suck at surviving.
So instead of building on survivibility, you are better off using Warrior’s strength as a weapon: Burst. Be the nuker instead of being a mere AoE fodder.
credit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/17qjxe/dwhite_dynamites_2_best_wvw_builds_for_the/
One change I would make to this build is to switch to sword/axe and axe/shield.
The problem with axe/axe and sword/shield is that it is too inconsistent. With sword/axe, you just leap in and nuke everything, then change to your axe/shield to wreck everything or block everything.
I watched the first 5 mins of that video and it didn’t seem like Retaliation was even a factor. Charge in, AE axe, group finishes off rest of zerg before they even get many attacks in on you.
It is in there, it is hard to see through that quantity of numbers.
It also position you inside the heart of the enemy zerg where ret works best. Where enemies sees you and start attacking you. If ret doesn’t work best in there, ret doesn’t work anywhere else.
I’m just saying it doens’t add much to the total damage. I think when it works best is when you’re 1v1 or 1v2 wearing PVT gear because you gain significant extra damage relative to your normal damage output. In a group, it’s drops in a bucket and the difference is negligible.
Hey guys, I made a build that might interest you.
http://www.gw2db.com/skill-builds/2627-knight-of-the-nine-boons
This build offers:
- Extreme Damage
Ok.
- Very high Survivability
Berserker’s gear + 0 defense + no healing shouts= very high survivability? By that reasoning, PVT geared 0/0/30/30/10 spec mace/shield warrior has very high damage….
- Extreme Mobility
Ok. When you’re not immobilized or snared.
- Very high Condition Removal
I don’t think you know what very high means. Strapping on a warhorn doesn’t give you very high condition removal. No soldier’s runes, no condition removing heal and/or signet…
- Maxed Endurance regen
From what? Warhorn doesn’t give 100% uptime vigor.
I think your 30 tactics is wasted if you’re just getting shout cooldown. Put that into discipline for the movement skill trait instead.
You just need to learn the encounters and dodge stuff. If everyone does this and has good DPS, you roll through everything. There are no effective roles other than DPS, though you can try and add support into the mix. Once you’re beyond noob stage, defensive stats are somewhat of a waste.
When talking about Ret builds, you have to know their greatest strength is when players attack them. This means you want to survive more.
That is a problem. Warriors suck at surviving.
So instead of building on survivibility, you are better off using Warrior’s strength as a weapon: Burst. Be the nuker instead of being a mere AoE fodder.
credit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/17qjxe/dwhite_dynamites_2_best_wvw_builds_for_the/
One change I would make to this build is to switch to sword/axe and axe/shield.
The problem with axe/axe and sword/shield is that it is too inconsistent. With sword/axe, you just leap in and nuke everything, then change to your axe/shield to wreck everything or block everything.
I watched the first 5 mins of that video and it didn’t seem like Retaliation was even a factor. Charge in, AE axe, group finishes off rest of zerg before they even get many attacks in on you.
I think the daileys are easier now. Go find a lvl 1 plains worm, aggro it, and just sit there and dodge while it attacks you. Very easy. If you are already gathering as you go, you have plenty of stuff to do the crafting daily as stated above.
That’s just 1/5 of what you need to do.
LOL, I know that. I’ve accomplished my daily every day. I just like the new layout and I finish it more quickly than the old daily system. But that’s just me.
How is that possible when most of the time you get pretty much what you got with old daily system + extra stuff?
Events are still the hardest to do unless you hit some specific area with frequently spawning events or run the right dungeons (not Sorrow’s Embrace, that’s for sure). I tried to complete my events by exploring today and spent an hour before I finally ran into my first (group) event.
I think the daileys are easier now. Go find a lvl 1 plains worm, aggro it, and just sit there and dodge while it attacks you. Very easy. If you are already gathering as you go, you have plenty of stuff to do the crafting daily as stated above.
That’s just 1/5 of what you need to do.
With the laurel, it has become a bit grindy because you feel forced to do it and it can take a while hunting down events or kill variety.
PPT ainec except maybe in WvWvW, but even there PPT is good.
It’s because that stuff is trash that everyone makes boatloads of while leveling crafting. Tons of people use crafting as a way to turn gold into experience/levels, and couldn’t care less about the byproducts. There is nowhere near enough demand to outpace the massive supply… and most people never use food before level 80 since it takes so little time to get there.
Food buffs are trash, yet they are too valuable to bother using before 80…make up your mind.
The TP has lots of gaps. Food is one of them. Back items is another that comes to mind.
The game is mostly done solo. The only grouping you’ll do is in dungeons and even then, it’s very shallow because of the lack of distinct roles and the poorly designed skill system. The personal story is pretty much solo as well, no group missions like in GW1. Grouping is pretty much a novelty feature in this game. So yeah, mostly alone. When you do manage to find other people in the open world, though, they’ll just zerg the closest event with you and then run away. Not much to it, it’s the most impersonal and shallow experience i’ve ever had in MMO gaming.
It’s less a solo game than most MMO’s these days. WoW for example is even more a solo game than GW2 in every aspect.
What do you do with karma though?
Um on my warrior I have a full pvt set of armor with full ruby orbs and a full set of zerker armor with ruby orbs, I notice a VERY little damage increase with beserkers, and the crit chance gained doesn’t seem to help crit more. I don’t mind running in pvt, never hurts the group.
So you’re saying the game is broken and precision is actually 100% useless?
Some tips for dungeons:
Ditch Healing Power Gear as its worthless. You heal just as good with 0 HP.
Ditch HP gear, yes. But it’s laughable to say you heal just as good with 0 HP. Selfless Daring with 0 HP is 130 heal, with 1000 HP it’s 1130…over 8 times as much. Regen heals for twice as much, etc.
Oh wait, you mean for afk auto-attack AH “healer”. Yea.
You’re all wrong.
What I did:
Run AC, complete dailies, continue to explore, start running SE for another armor set, eventually I’ll run fractals….
I’d like to go and do all the jumping puzzles but I keep getting distracted by the dungeons and exploring. I still haven’t gotten around to trying WvWvW either.
Don’t buy exotic armor sets imo. You can get armor for free by doing dungeons or WvWvW. If you don’t like dungeons then you don’t really need exotic armor anyway.
Mavaho – now that is superb looking armor! Great colours too!
She blocks attacks with her abs.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the nerfed warriors. Specifically 100 blades and the GS might stacking trait. That wouldn’t change much for anything but dungeon speed running, which is what the goal is.