Guild Wars 2

ronpierce.2760:

Its already too good though, everyone wants a lower CD on swapping, people were already envious of that trait as it is, I don’t think buffing warriors as a whole would help that. Maybe if you let everyone have an 8 second CD swap, then maybe we’ll talk. But warrior-exclusive, no thanks. :S

Can I get immunity to incoming conditions like Elementalists too? No? Didn’t think so. Doesn’t make sense to give all classes the same of certain things.

I wouldn’t call this anything close to the truth. Warrior’s aren’t even “immune” for that long, have to slot two utilities to gain that immunity to both types of damage, and have long cooldowns compared to the duration of the skills. Warrior’s don’t get much utility variety as we’re ALWAYS forced to take Berserker Stance or Endure Pain. It’s claimed we sacrifice nothing, but in order to have this “god-like” sustain and power we sacrifice utility slots and true DPS builds.

The people complaining about Warriors being OP tend to be ignorant.

That awkward moment when that super duper ultra passive denies them of a burst heal.

a t s e.9614:

Well Zanryu you aren’t pro either though , warrior is OP but just not this build . Hambow and condi warriors are the best builds of the game . Warrior would be balanced if Healing Signet got fixed . The conditions SS\LB build gonna become the new meta and people will cry for nerfs on Healing Signet .

They shouldn’t even nerf the hammer , it won’t fix the biggest problem which is the healing signet . Warrior is going to be Overnerfed because they are not fixing the right problems.

Never claimed to be, but I can recognize when someone’s going against people who aren’t doing what they should be. Even at whatever level of skill I’m at you can pick up things like that.

Gettin’ better errday though yo.

Well it seems fitting, seeing as people yell at each other anyway. May as well implement it on the battlefield so their characters can join the fun too.

I didn’t know killing people who don’t stunbreak and are at half HP in 2v1s made a class OP. kitten man.. guess Anet needs to take a serious look at all the classes.

If you set out to prove you can kill bads on a Skullcrack Warrior then congrats, you proved it. This doesn’t show Warriors are OP though.

3/10.

Void.4239:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Relentliss.2170:

Lol everyone is a talented Warrior. Just roll forehead across keyboard.

Everyone is a talented (put class here) that loses against no talented warrior.

Thing is after only a few matches I was heaps better on my warrior than on any of my other classes. There was no opportunity cost. Unlike other classes, I could do damage and be very tanky at the same time. I could swap in cc weapons and do all 3. It didn’t seem to matter what order you used your skills at all. There was really no thinking or opportunity cost at all. Missing a skill or using it at the wrong time didn’t matter. I would call that a faceroll.

I did the same with my mesmer and i killed those warriors without many worries (of course i know how to dodge and kite hambows).
Then i picked a ranger and did the same.
In the end i reached one conclusion with this two classes.
I dont even need to actively hit the other player to defeat him. The AI does that for me.
If that is not faceroll…

Now i´m going to start playing necro.

What happens when you get hit on mesmer / thief ?
Compare it to what happens when war gets hit …
You have now figured out what mesmer and thief have to sacrifice while warrior has to sacrifice NOTHING. ( risk vs reward )
btw a war’s dps isnt that far from that of a mesmer/ thief ( just mesmer /thief have to go full glasscanon to get it while war can do it on bunkerish gear setup )

NOW imagine a team fight ….. where you cant just keep your attention on 1 character.

…wut.

I have yet to see any Warrior do to me what a Mesmer or Thief can do to me in terms of damage.

I liked the music but it didn’t fit the video. Oh well, what can you do?

Original post updated with new videos.

Forkada.8376:

Delite all other classes Arena. Why do we need them?

Warrior have passive heal. ( dont need blast, conrol hp etc) Passive Stability, passive Invul, possive anticondition ability, passive DPS ( full PTV set 70% crit LOL WHAT?) Full PTV Traits… vigor 100% 3-4 sec stun wis CD 6 sec LOL WHAT? Most mobility class ever…… and all this in 1 build.

I DONT KNOW ANY OP CLASES IN ANY GAME… ULTRA IMBOLANCED GAme nothing 2 say………….

ALL of this OP in 1 OP buildd wis MINIMAL rotation. Yo dont need brain 2 play this class. Whu Enginer and Elementalist have 50+ abilytes in1 rotation and weeker then Warriors? Srsly delite all clasess…

K. Warrior’s don’t have Invulnerability, however they “can” have passive Stability and Endure Pain provided they get knocked down, stunned, dazed, or launched; or fall under 25% HP respectively. However a build like that takes away the ability to use Cleansing Ire or Merciless Hammer, the first of which NO Warrior will do and the second very few would do if they were trying to fill some niche roll.

Moving on.

Dodged March is only a 33% reduction on movement conditions, conditions that deal damage retain their full duration. Berserker Stance and Signet of Stamina are not passive, but just to cover bases they only work ever so often and can be kited. The other option is to deal direct damage. In order to have Vigor at least semi often, not with 100% uptime, Warriors need to run stances and take the Vigorous Focus trait, which grants Vigor for 6 seconds for each Stance used. On over a 40 second cooldown per stance.

Judging from your post (3-4 second stun and mobility) I believe it’s safe to assume you’re talking about a Skull Crack build with a Mace/Shield and Greatsword in WvW. If you aren’t, then correct me.

A Skull Crack build runs with 0/20/20/0/30. This build only has access to passive Stability, however Cleansing Ire is the choice people go with as this build relies on the burst skill of the Mace to land Hundred Blades. It has no passive Stability unless the Warrior takes that trait over Cleansing Ire, and no access to a passive Endure Pain unless Warrior sacrifices 10 points in Arms or Discipline which takes away either the cooldown reduction on Greatsword skills and 10% critical chance on Burst skills, or the 33% Adrenaline cost of Burst skills and adds 10% recharge rate.

In any case, from what I can tell that’s the build you’re talking about (runes may be off). If you run with Condition duration food or don’t rely on Conditions as your main source of damage this Warrior is perfectly killable. Stunbreaking, Stability, and dodging at the proper times along with applying pressure and CCing the Warrior in return would allow you to kill that build. It’s not going to hurt you nearly as bad as the more common Skull Crack build would, and if you choose to go with Condition damage they have no Cleansing Ire. If they use Berserker Stance kite it off then drop your Conditions on them.

So it sounds like this is the build you’re talking about that “has it all”. I’m sure it would be difficult to kill if you lack Stability, Stun Breakers, or the ability to dodge or keep your distance, but I wouldn’t say it’s difficult enough to justify this thread. It has mobility, passive Stability and Endure pain, passive resistance to movement Conditions, stances to grant Vigor and Stability, direct damage resistance, and Condition immunity (conditions applied previously aren’t affected), and 70% critical chance while the target is stunned.

But it lacks Condition removal, proper Greatsword damage, AoE power, and it’s locked at only 35% critical damage. In comparison to the proper build for the Warrior I believe you’re talking about that’s pitiful. In order to “have everything” it seems to sacrifice a lot of its utility and damage capabilities.

2/10 for making me reply.

Nilgoow.1037:

I would agree that if I lose games there is definitely something wrong with the system. I consider myself to be ‘good at games’ and probably in the top 80% of GW2 players by virtue of [fill this in later].

What I’m saying is that I’m good and Anet needs to build a system that recognizes that instead of punishing me personally because they hate me.

It’s not personal. You get stuck with random people and no matter how good one person is if the people you’re with aren’t good, you’re unlikely to win. Thing of teams like a machine. That machine is only as strong as the sum of its parts, and if a cog or gear is rusty or damaged, that team isn’t going to perform nearly as well as the other team. Even if the gauge or buttons are in pristine condition.

r u be trollin m8

Locuz.2651:

Jax.5261:

Look, I can tell you exactly where you’re going wrong in the video (I’ll even be 100% constructive).
Hopefully being more constructive will show you what you’re missing so that you can see where the Warrior excels too much for the effort put in.

I see a really mediocre warrior in terms of timing and lining up his burst. You obviously lack a lot of exp, which isnt a horrible thing as a relatively new pvper (i saw rank 18 right?). It just means you are relatively unaware off the potential of warrior gameplay.

You cant talk something that is wrong in to something that is right.

I told you before. Warriors main strenght is that its good at pretty much everything, while having relatively few weaknesses.

Hmm. Should I assume you misquoted and mean me?

I’m not saying Bull’s Charge is bad. I had a match today where I wished I had it, however I find that in most cases I prefer to have my utilities be purely defensive. The way I play is different from the way you do, but it works for me. Warrior’s seem to me like a jack of all trades class, much like the class I played on my last game. Good at everything, the best at nothing. We’re great at stuns, that’s what we excel at. However when it comes to damage, mobility, conditions, and bunkering we’re second best. We’re good, but we aren’t the best.

To be honest as long as it gets people to stop complaining I welcome the nerfs, I don’t believe the damage needs to be nerfed quite that harshly, but as long as Warriors don’t become unable to land kills then I’ll take the tradeoff.

In any case.. I’m not here to argue whether Bull’s Charge is good enough or about my rank. I like Bull’s Charge, I just don’t prefer it in most situations. As for rank, well I don’t really believe that holds a lot of importance. Sure, if you see a rank 1 you’ll know the person is new, but once you get to 10+ people can start to become competent. Perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t judge someone by their rank. I’m certainly not the best Warrior, I don’t claim to be, but I know that I do my job at least decently well and have played enough to form a valid opinion on the class.

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m aware, but I prefer opening with an Earthshaker rather than Bull’s Charge. It’s got mobility and acts as a knockdown, but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. They slot two stability’s and Berserker Stance (or in my case Endure Pain, a Stability, and Berserker Stance) and it becomes harder to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Bull’s Charge offers no effect outside of the rushing and the knockdown, and while that’s great offensively and to possibly escape a fight, it’s doing you do good immobilized. Even slowed down it’s far less effective. It certainly won’t help if you’re stunned.

Endure Pain only grants 5 seconds traited. One minute is FAR from a short CD, that generally means you only get to use it once per fight. GW2 doesn’t have 15 minutes fights, someone goes down or runs within two minutes in most cases. The most anyone would get to use those skills is likely 3-4 times in one team fight.

Warrior and Necro share the same level of HP. As for the strongest heal, that’s debatable. Different heals have different abilities that makes them good under certain conditions.

And thats exactly why you are struggling as warrior. Youre not landing CC chains. I watched the video you uploaded last week: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrfvEMGo7Vs&feature=c4-overview&list=UUemuZJXBIqyvL9_mAwDO4yw

Shows exactly that youre just not that aware yet how to play warrior at its full potential. Dont get me wrong, im not either. But i know for a fact that im doing a lot better then you are in skirmishes like that. Most CCs where used randomly, while warriors are about landing that wombocombo that 100-0s people.

What i saw for example is how you tried to get an immob + longbows f1. Problem with is that youre using your adrenaline that you could be using to land a proper hammer F1 in to hammer 5 in to hammer 4 in to bullrush + hammer 2 and 3 while he is knocked down for example.

Getting killed in cc chains like that is what people complain about. In CC chains like this : http://www.twitch.tv/ostricheggs/c/3063182

The only time i am using the LB F1 is:

- when ppl are fighting on point (and i know for fact that ill hit them)
- just before berserker rage as adrenaline dump
- When i know for a fact i whont go in melee range anytime soon. Like when im shooting from a ledge or w/e.

Zanryu.3417:

but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. .

The best defense is a proper offense. He whont be doing any damage if he gets interupted + knocked down for those 2 extra seconds. And if you get him low during that CC chain he will play defensively himselve.

On top of that…i had plenty of moments where i could disengage and effectively avoiding my death due to bullscharge (followed by a reset + reengage). Balanced stance is nice but doesnt create distance insantly like bullscharge does.

How is that not defensive.

Skimmed the video for instances of this, only saw one. If there’s more I’ll have to find them when I properly watch it later as I’m about to begin a tournament.

I’ll also edit my post then, after I’ve read your post completely.

EDIT: I haven’t rewatched the video just yet, in another queue however it seems I have time to reply.

I use Combustive Shot on point fairly often, followed by Arcing Arrow.

I understand the person can’t use skills while downed and that it can be used to put them on the defensive, however one Stability changes that. It renders your stuns and knockdowns worthless for the duration. I prefer to slot all defensive utilities to lengthen my time in the fight rather than to allow me to disengage. I can see the advantages, however the longer I can stay up IN the fight, the more useful I am to my team knocking opponents around and firing off Combustive Shots. Disengaging and recovering, then getting back into the fight is a good tactic and there are definitely times I wish I had that mobility. It’s just that I find the Stability I get instead serves me better in what I want to do.

That’s how I see it anyway. I enjoy Bull’s Charge in WvW, but I tend to get mobility wherever I can when doing that since I roam a lot.

Larynx.2453:

You can’t compare traits across classes because the context in which those traits are in is completely different. A warrior has almost double the base health of a guardian. A guardian has 300 more armor than an ele. A thief has more means of stealthing than a mesmer.

Classes are different, and different classes are balanced around their unique class mechanics.

That logic would hold up if classes didn’t already have multiple traits that do the same thing. However, as I’ve already shown, they do. Certain traits function more or less the same regardless of what class it’s on, and Warriors seem to get the shaft when it comes to minor traits. I’m simply posing the question “Why?”.

It seems more likely that WHERE traits are (Strength as opposed to Tactics, Arcana as opposed to Air) is based on each classes unique builds and playstyles, while a fair amount do more or less the same thing and are tossed in where it would seem fitting.

Sure, class plays a role in it, but Rangers have roughly the same attack power as a Warrior does when it comes to comparing zerk builds. Also, they have more effective range options. I don’t see how them having a skill that grants them AND their pet Might like that for less point investment is really justified.

So again, I pose the question, “Why?”.

Larynx.2453:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

An ele grandmaster trait is worse than a warrior adept trait.

You can not compare traits across classes. It does not work.

The traits listed do similar things. The Ranger traits is far better and requires less point investment. The second example was unrelated to that, however it is something I’d like to see addressed.

I’ll indulge you though, let’s compare the minor traits in each of their respective lines of both classes.

Strength/Fire

Warrior Adept: Reckless Dodge Damage foes at the end of a dodge roll.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Burning Rage Deal more damage to burning foes.

Arms/Air

Warrior Adept: Precise Strikes Chance to cause bleeding on critical hits.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Weak Spot Chance to cause vulnerability on critical hits.

Defense/Earth

Warrior Adept: Thick Skin Gain extra armor while your health is above the threshold.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Enduring Damage Deal more damage when your endurance is full. (Note: This also grants 10% damage, as opposed to 3%.)

Tactics/Water

Warrior Adept: Determined Revival Gain extra toughness per level while reviving.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Bountiful Power Deal more damage for each boon on you.

Discipline/Arcana

Warrior Adept: Versatile Rage Gain adrenaline on weapon swap.

Elementalist Grandmaster: Arcane Precision Skills have a chance to apply a condition on critical hits.

So, you’re right. For all the wrong reasons. You can’t compare traits across different because there’s a substantial difference in their power and effects, which is how it should be. The only skill that’s possibly on the same level, not worse mind you, is Air 25 and Warrior 5 as they both apply conditions on crit.

If anything this supports the question of “Why is a Ranger Master trait superior to a Warrior Grandmaster trait?”

I’m curious to know why a Ranger 15 Trait is now better than a Warrior’s 25 trait.

Mighty Swap gives both the Ranger and their pet 3 stacks of Might upon the pet being activated. This can occur every 10 seconds.

Versatile Power gives the Warrior 1 stack of Might upon switching weapons. This can occur every 10 seconds, or 5 when using the minor trait Fast Hands.

Even with 15 points in Discipline the Ranger now has better access to Might AND it affects their pet as well. In what ways do you believe this to be a balanced trait?

Also, I’d like to point out that Thieves and Guardians get 10% damage while their Endurance is not full while Warriors only get 3%. Shouldn’t the Warrior trait be brought up to a similar level?

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build.

You do realize bulls charge knocks people down for 2 seconds? Which synchronizes perfectly in a CC chain…which is one of the main reasons im taking it. (are you telling me youre not linking CCs?)

So its not just the mobility.

And sacrificing is a big word when you have multiple short CD immunities like endure pain or berserker stance in case youre in really big trouble. A 10 sec window (traited) where you take 0 dmg from condis every minite on top of for example endure pain that gives 6 sec direct dmg immunity.

And thats on top of the mitigation due to control. People whont touch you when they are getting tossed around with our hammer.

And even if some damage gets through. Warriors have the best HPS in the game atm, with one exception: the necro casted heal when he has a full line of condis on him. The rest is all a lot of weaker….and needs to be casted in most cases.

I’m aware, but I prefer opening with an Earthshaker rather than Bull’s Charge. It’s got mobility and acts as a knockdown, but there such a thing as too offensive. What makes Warriors something to complain about is that they slot defensively. They slot two stability’s and Berserker Stance (or in my case Endure Pain, a Stability, and Berserker Stance) and it becomes harder to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

Bull’s Charge offers no effect outside of the rushing and the knockdown, and while that’s great offensively and to possibly escape a fight, it’s doing you do good immobilized. Even slowed down it’s far less effective. It certainly won’t help if you’re stunned.

Endure Pain only grants 5 seconds traited. One minute is FAR from a short CD, that generally means you only get to use it once per fight. GW2 doesn’t have 15 minutes fights, someone goes down or runs within two minutes in most cases. The most anyone would get to use those skills is likely 3-4 times in one team fight.

Warrior and Necro share the same level of HP. As for the strongest heal, that’s debatable. Different heals have different abilities that makes them good under certain conditions.

Locuz.2651:

Zanryu.3417:

Does anyone have any suggestions? Any would be welcome.

Play all other classes extensively in spvp. I can assure you that if you did youd realize how over the top warriors are atm. You’d wish that you never made this thread tbh.

Dont get me wrong…they arent gods and they can die. But its incredibly easy to be succesfull while playing warrior “if compared to other profs”. And thats the most important thing:

- How is my burst compared to other classes
- How is my sustained
- How is my survivibility.
- How is my mobility
- How is my control

And when you look at those you have to keep in mind that for specific things to be strong, a class usually has to sacrifice in other areas.

And thats the problem with warriors atm (that they dont have to make those sacrifices). If i play hammer longbow on warrior….the only thing that isnt top tier is the mobility. And the mobility is still above average, esp if you use bullcharge like i do. In all other categories they are top of the line.

Our burst and mobility aren’t as good as other classes that don’t rely on high HP pools to survive. See: Thief and Mesmer.

Guardians tend to be the better overall option to bunker with, and even as a condition build our performance is outshined by Engineer and Necromancer. Yes, Warriors have builds allowing them to do quite a few things, however what they can do gets outshined by other classes that can do the same thing. With Bull Charge the Warrior has to sacrifice a defensive utility for mobility, and mobility just for mobility’s sake isn’t my idea of a good build. Sure, you can get to points or escape quicker, but when it comes to the fighting you’re going to be worse off than another Warrior using defensive utilities.

I’ve played Necro and Mesmer, and I’ve gotta say they outperform Warriors in condition and burst damage respectively. My Necro was actually capable of bunkering fairly decently thanks to Death Shroud. I’m not saying I was a pro at it as I didn’t play too large of an amount of games as a Necro, but it did fairly well. I even hopped on it lately for a game or two and was landing quite a few kills from conditions spam.

What do you guys think of a trait to decrease off-hand sword skills by 20%? The issue I see with a mainhand trait would be giving a large amount of mobility to Warriors given that Savage Leap would have a lower cooldown.

If what you want is a way for Warriors to have more options as a condition build, such as making those abilities more accessible, I believe a cooldown reduction on the offhand sword would be the way to go.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Zanryu.3417:

The hypothesis is that Berserker Amulet outperforms Barbarian Amulet, and as it offers nothing but pure damage this translates into: Berserker Amulet has enough damage to justify it over a Barbarian Amulet, which grants HP as well as the same crit rate.

No that is NOT a hypothesis that you can test, as it is currently. That isn’t refined at all.

Zanryu.3417:

There is no variance because I use the exact same build, exact same skill, and exact same weapon for both tests. The weapon used was Steady, meaning no variation in the damage it can do.

No there IS statistical variance.

Zanryu.3417:

Shooting 1 Arcing Arrow will net the same results as shooting 1,000 in this case.

No no no no no. This is all wrong. Just all wrong. Again, you do not test the statistical accuracy of a coin flip by flipping it 2 times.

Zanryu.3417:

The only possible variables or deviation would be in testing with other builds or amulets, however I’m comparing the effects of both amulets on this one build.

No this is wrong.

Zanryu.3417:

I’m not shoving personal bias down anyone’s throat. I’ve stated many times, very clearly, that I want an actual discussion.

No you don’t. You clearly have no interest in figuring this out because you constantly constantly provide absolutely terrible testing methods. It is quite obvious you know little to nothing about statistical testing.

Zanryu.3417:

If I was bias I’d say “Yeah man, Warriors aren’t OP and you just suck. I don’t care what your reason is just get out. Warriors 4 lief homiezzz”

You apparently haven’t heard of politicians or lobby groups before. You think they win arguments with their lies by saying, “U suck”?

I don’t need to test crap. The burden of proof is on you, not me.

For christ sake, here is a template of what I’m looking for:

This was from 3 months ago and my questions have been resolved regarding this issue.

You typically have at least 35 trials since its the “magic number” in statistics, but because I succinctly defined my hypothesis, I can test the accuracy rather easily if I had less number of trials. Also note: I’ve set this all up so YOU can run the tests yourself so you can get the exact same numbers that I do. I’ve posted my data set IN the post as well.

1. That was the situation given to me.

2. Tell me how a hit can change on a weapon with no change in damage using the exact same build on the exact same target with the exact same amulet.

3. See above. Steady Weapons are meant to give the same results each time, they’re test weapons. I used them for this purpose.

4. I do or I wouldn’t have made this thread. The test I did has nothing to do with whether or not Warriors are OP, I simply made it to determine the difference in amulets when using my current build.

5. As has been said before, it’s difficult to show whether or not a class is OP. There’s a large amount of variables such as player skill, opponent skill, class matchups, utility skill differences, build differences, starting off fights against ready opponents or opponents with cooldowns, the maps (as different maps can motivate people to use different strategies or even builds). However, rather than “shove my bias down people’s throats” I’m calling for a discussion of the class using whatever people have as proof. I want an actual discussion. If I haven’t made that clear yet I’m not really sure how to.

As said before, I wasn’t testing the other mechanics of my class. I was testing the difference in amulets meaning that type of test would do no good and the one I used is accurate.

6. Oh lawdy.

There’s not really too many ways to actually test the things people say make Warriors OP, as there’s many different situations that occur in tPvP. The option could certainly be explored though, do you have any suggestions?

Does anyone have any suggestions? Any would be welcome.

hooma.9642:

1. moar power = moar dmg with same crit chance and crit dmg!
2. moar power + moar crit dmg with same crit chance = moar average dmg!
3. if u have problems seeing what is op atm i suggest reading the forum!
4. 0/10/30/0/30 + UF + fury > 100% critchance.. so 15% moar crit dmg during spike is enough to justify it

1. I’m aware. I found the difference in damage.
2. I’m aware, see above.
3. I know what people believe is OP.
4. That depends on which you prefer, damage or HP.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Zanryu.3417:

I showed the results of damage tests using both amulets, unless you can point out where that went wrong you should probably stop behaving like a child.

Lol. The insults. Wow.

Zanryu.3417:

Determining the sample size

• A sampling size of 1 regular and one critical hit will be used per amulet, as the results can’t change due to a lack of variables.

THIS is wrong. You don’t preform any statistical observation on the statistical accuracy of flipping a coin by flipping it 2 times.

Beyond that, your data collection is sloppy. Not well-defined. Haphazard. And overall just bad. No expected hypothesis. No Expected Damage calculation. No variance calculation. No standard deviation calculation. No confidence interval. No CHECKING your hypothesis. It’s just a straight up bad “testing” methodology. The same can be said for your “videos”.

All of this shows you have absolutely NO interest in actually finding out what is going on, and instead just trying to shove your personal bias down everyone’s throats. Now people are throwing up on you and you’re yelling at them for doing so!

The hypothesis is that Berserker Amulet outperforms Barbarian Amulet, and as it offers nothing but pure damage this translates into: Berserker Amulet has enough damage to justify it over a Barbarian Amulet, which grants HP as well as the same crit rate.

There is no variance because I use the exact same build, exact same skill, and exact same weapon for both tests. The weapon used was Steady, meaning no variation in the damage it can do. Shooting 1 Arcing Arrow will net the same results as shooting 1,000 in this case. The only possible variables or deviation would be in testing with other builds or amulets, however I’m comparing the effects of both amulets on this one build.

I’m not shoving personal bias down anyone’s throat. I’ve stated many times, very clearly, that I want an actual discussion. I want people to come in and state what they think is OP and why, and to discuss their reasoning and why I do or do not agree.

If I was bias I’d say “Yeah man, Warriors aren’t OP and you just suck. I don’t care what your reason is just get out. Warriors 4 lief homiezzz” but that isn’t the case. I want legitimate arguments, not insults or taunts.

If you think my test is wrong go do it yourself. The test only applied to one build, as that’s the build I currently use which makes it the only relevant build to test with in this situation. I wasn’t testing EVERY build and EVERY weapon, just what I use with my Barbarian Amulet.

Well you get points for originality, I’ve never heard of a support skill that actually makes you take more damage. I think that’s a horrible suggestion for a skill that heals, the drawback you suggest should be used for something that allows you to hit harder rather than something that heals.

A better drawback would be reducing your damage output by 33%, your sustain goes up but you become less of a threat.

I guess you could say the changes that are coming are pretty… Earthshaking.

baylock.1703:

100 blades on moveing.. nenene 2 powerful

Edited the description of Hundred Blades to accurately reflect the downside involved with the skill. -50% movement speed rather than moving at full speed while using the skill.

Burnfall.9573:

Op

The community is already suffering by this OP class mechanic+ their Op weapon/s, why add more pain?

What you proposed to “Earthshaker – Changed slightly.
Stun reduced to 1 second. Damage increased by 10% and range increased to 1000. Skill responsiveness has been increased”- including-Hundred Blades, Arcing Slice, and Skull Crack, are simply Outrageous.

In other words to make warriors hammers, including all its weapons+skill; 2x times more overpower as it already is?.

lastly,

I do not encourage it and will not tolerate it; neither should Arena.net.

Embrace yourselves warriors; the end to your godlikeness is coming, and it will remind you; once and for all, the only one who is entitle as, The Supreme Power in guild wars 2, is Arena.net..

I wouldn’t call 10% damage on one skill and an increase in range at the cost of its main utility two times more powerful.

In any case, I suggested another change to the skill. Launch will achieve the desired effect of crowd control while preventing the warrior from immediately following up with Staggering Blow or Backbreaker, making it more difficult to lock someone.

Nickthemoonwolf.1485:

You leave my kitten earthshaker alone. Thats a pretty terrible suggestion. Adding so much range to it would add unintended mobility to hammer warriors, and a single second stun at max adrenaline basically gibs the hammer entirely, and our hammer is already pretty sub par on HARD CC compared to guardians hammer.

What you’re asking for is for a burst skills stun to be reduced to the shield bash (both 1 second), without any real utillity, unlike the shield bash. Example being that you can land the shield bash and combo it into a evisc. to almost for sure land it, and even then, its cutting it close with the cast time of the burst. IMO the hammer itself is fine, but I think it should not be able to do 4-5k crits while still being with a tanky build, and this seems to be the way Anet thinks about it as well.

Skill responsiveness needs to be increased anyway as well.

Edited Original post to list a second suggestion for Earthshaker. I prefer this change to the one Dae suggested.

Chicago Jack.5647:

“1. Attack a target with a skill of choice using the amulet of choice.
2. Record both base and critical damage. (Chance isn’t factored as the chance is the same with either amulet)
3. Attack the same target with the same skill using the other amulet.
4. Record both base and critical damage.
5. Calculate the difference between base and critical damages respectively.
6. Get whined at on the forums.”

Oh god, just please read the article on statistical sampling. You’re making me facepalm here.

Or you could do some tests of your own. How is my test invalid? Were my results incorrect? Were they skewed? Did I miss a step?

I showed the results of damage tests using both amulets, unless you can point out where that went wrong you should probably stop behaving like a child.

Defining the population of concern

• The damage difference between Barbarian and Berserker Amulets

Specifying a sampling frame, a set of items or events possible to measure

• Arcing Arrow is used as the skill to measure the difference in damage.

Specifying a sampling method for selecting items or events from the frame

• Using a Steady Bow so there are no variables in damage, attack the Heavy Target Golem using Arcing Arrow until both a regular and critical hit have been recorded. Perform this process with both amulets.

Determining the sample size

• A sampling size of 1 regular and one critical hit will be used per amulet, as the results can’t change due to a lack of variables.

Implementing the sampling plan

• I attacked the Golem using the method listed above. For more accurate results I tested on the Light Armor Golem after using the same conditions as stated above. The results were an 18% damage difference in critical hits and 12% difference in regular.

• Sampling and data collecting
  I performed my test and collected the results.

• Data which can be selected
  The results of this test have already been posted.

I don’t know man, seems pretty solid to me. I’m not testing something with a lot of variables, this was something pretty basic.

Maybe now you’ll actually explain what went wrong with the test rather than complain about it.

DragonMind.2983:

I like the ‘Powerful shout’ trait, but at least 4 of the other
traits (mixed minor and major) seems a bit OP.

That said I would like see them add:
More shouts, especially an elite shout …we don’t have any elite shout.
(shouts could be variants, like the concept of banners)

Banners need to be more useful, maybe have them provide
a combofield, which is different from banner to banner.
Have them occupy off-hand, where ‘5’ slot is ‘Plant banner’
(or what it’s called) and ‘4’ slot is the current banners ‘2’ slot skill.

I’d love an elite Shout, though the issue I see with giving Banners a combo field is how long they last. You could easily have combo fields up for well over a minute with no real effort and even carry them around with you.

There is another change to Warriors coming soon, and seeing as there are still quite a few drawbacks in their traits and even some skills I’m going to list some of the changes I would like to see to the class. I’ve been chatting with Daecollo and he gave me a list of skill changes that actually seem pretty good for the class. I read through and edited a few, along with making a few changes to wording and coming up with the mechanic for Burst skills, and now present a list of suggestions for the Warrior class.

Please do not troll this thread, stick to discussion and improvements of the suggestions listed or list your own.

Warrior skill and mechanic changes

MECHANICS:

Burst Skills – Cooldown changes

• Upon missing Burst skills go go into cooldown for their initial cooldown period + half of their cooldown period. This takes into account the cooldown reduction of the Discipline tree. (Missing a Burst would result in a 15 second cooldown (10 seconds + 5 seconds).

• Fix the bug preventing Burst skills to be reduced to 7 seconds, rather than 7.75 seconds in WvW.

SKILLS:

• Earthshaker – (multiple suggestions)

1. Stun reduced to 1 second. Damage increased by 10% and range increased to 1000. Skill responsiveness has been increased.

2 Stun changed to Launch. Range increased.
Launch opponents in the radius. Targets launched are knocked down for 1 second. Time knocked down increases by .5 seconds for each bar of adrenaline.
Range: 900
(Prevents Warriors from easily following up with another CC skill as they have to move to their target. Achieves the desired effect of controlling the opponent while moving them out of melee range making it harder for the Warrior to stunlock.)

• Hundred Blades – Replaces Arcing Slice as a Burst skill.
  Can be used while moving, damage and cast + channel time decreased. Movement speed reduced by 50%

• Arcing Slice – Replaces Hundred Blades on skill slot 2.
  Fury replaced with 5 stacks of Vulnerability. 6 Second Cooldown.

• Skull Crack – Changed slightly
  Range increased to 150 and now hits multiple targets. Upon missing this skill goes into cooldown for double the initial cooldown period. The Asura race will now jump in the air before doing the skull crack to make it easier to see coming.

MINOR TRAITS:

Strength:

• 25: Stick and Move -
  Damage is increased when Endurance is not full.
  Damage Increase: 10%
  (Other classes gain 10% damage for the same trait.)

Arms:

• 15: Critical Burst -
  Burst skills weaken your foes and make them vulnerable.
  Weakness: 5 s
  5 Stacks of Vulnerability: 5 s

Defense:

• 5: Thick Skin –
  Gain regeneration when you are interrupted.
  Regeneration: 5 s (Cooldown: 10 s)

• 15: Armored Attack
  Gain power and precision based on your toughness.
  Toughness converted to Power: 5%
  Toughness converted to Precision: 5%

• 25: Adrenal Health – Moved from Master Minor Trait to Grandmaster Minor Trait (15 to 25). Passive effects removed.
  Gain HP for each strike of Adrenaline gained.
  Grants HP for each strike of Adrenaline gained.
  Health: 57 (0.05*Healing Power)
  (Does not heal once max Adrenaline is reached.)

Tactics:

• 5: Prevention Training
  Reduce incoming Poison, Torment, and Bleed durations.
  Poison, Torment, and Bleed durations are reduced by 33%.

• 15: Fast Healer
  Heal on weapon swap.
  Healing: 670 + (0.6*Healing Power)

• 25: Determined Revival
  Gain Stability, revive speed, and Toughness per level while reviving.
  Gives 5 Toughness per level (not shown as a trait fact).
  Stability: 3 s (Internal Cooldown: 10 seconds.)
  Revive percentage: 15%

Discipline:

• 5: Versatile Rage
  Gain adrenaline on weapon swap.
  Adrenaline: 10
  (Cooldown: 10 s)

• 25: Versatile Power
  Gain 3 stacks of might on weapon swap.
  Might: 20 s

MAJOR TRAITS:

Strength:

• Powerful Shouts (Adept Trait) – New Trait
  Shouts do damage.

• Short Temper (Adept Trait) -
  Gain 1 stack of Might and Adrenaline when you are blocked or miss.
  Might: 5 seconds
  Adrenaline: 5

• Berserker’s Might (Grandmaster Trait) -
  You are always at full adrenaline. Gain 1 stack of Might at regular intervals
  Might: 15 s
  Interval: 3 s

Arms:

• Unsuspecting Foe (Grandmaster Trait) – Moved from Adept to Grandmaster.
  Increased critical-hit chance against stunned foes.
  Chance increase: 50%
  +300 Condition Damage is Converted to Power.

Defense:

• Spiked Armor (Master Trait) – Moved from Grandmaster to Master
  Inflict 1 stack of Bleed and gain Retaliation when struck by a critical hit.
  Retaliation: 5 s (Cooldown: 20 s)
  Bleed: 5 s

• Cleansing Ire (Grandmaster Trait) – Moved from Master to Grandmaster. No other changes.

UTILITIES:

• Shake it Off –
  Convert two conditions on yourself and nearby allies into boons.
  Breaks Stun
  Radius: 600

The next OP class.

evilapprentice.6379:

Zanryu.3417:

Chicago Jack.5647:

Your “testing” methodology is horrendous and this thread is largely a waste of space. Zanryu, reading this might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_%28statistics%29

Seriously, this thread is so full of stupid.

I’d love to know why.

Seriously? I thought I laid this all out.

A) Your “skill” is not something we can map to a mathematic function. You could be an awful player, you could be an amazing player – you could be a member of CC – it doesn’t matter, our ability to qualify your level of skill is not based in entirely in reason, but mostly in observation and emotion. This a more minor point (We have to have SOME level of faith in qualifying “skill” to even do this), but if you want to strictly prove something, you look at statistics, not 1 players experience.
B) Fighting random players proves nothing. We have no idea of their skill level, their spec, their utilities, as well as other extraneous factors (Ping, did someone call their name IRL mid fight, etc).
C) We can’t see opposing players specs/amulet/runes/sigils. There are definitely hard and soft matchups in this game. S/D is probably the best spec to face a well played Hambow warrior, and D/P probably the worst (depending on what utilities Hambow brings, of course). Even if we assume the same skill level, the fights can go very differently.
D) Other factors can play a part – Lets say your fighting a player who is very close to you in skill, and is running a spec well suited for fighting yours. Lag, being distracted, or simple human error (pressing the wrong key for example) can determine the outcome of the fight – do we judge whats OP and whats not when we consider those factors? Of course not.

Team fights are just impossible to judge – there are far too many variables to track, any team fight is purely anecdotal.

If you wanted to get the best data possible (not the most accurate, mind you, just the best we as players can possibly attain), you’d have to set up duels with players with provable (defining “provable” is tricky, but possible within these constraints) skill. We’d have to see both players every detail (Spec, runes, sigils, etc), and test a variety of situations – fighting in a decapped point, defend and assault for both sides, skirmishing outside points, etc etc etc. Even then, the data would be highly anecdotal and not fit for making a true judgement call on whether or not a spec was OP.

This is why we have to trust anet to look at statistical data (which normalizes all the outliers above) to make balance decisions.

In other words, no videos and very few threads can actually be taken as valid evidence for either side? Interesting. I’d love to make something that could show either way what state Warriors are in, but organizing that is a challenge. All I can offer is what I’ve shown so far, being the videos I’ve recorded and the statements I’ve made.

We’ve argued and argued, and neither side wants to give, however the side claiming Warriors are OP tend to stick to insults and otherwise negative posts rather than explain why the Warrior as OP. Even when faced with statements about different builds and gameplay.

Really all we can do is discuss the skills and how they interact with each other, and how those skills are utilized in combat. I’ve already addressed the issue with Healing Signet and Adrenal health, however I have yet to see a counter argument to it. That’s what this is about. Debating the Warrior class, for the side that believes they’re overpowered to prove it by telling us exactly how it’s broken but that has yet to happen. So rather than a reasonable discussion going back and forth we have various videos and insults flying around, which is not the point. You saw what happened when I posted the math that showed my choice wasn’t a horrible on, I got insulted and nothing constructive happened.

If you’d like to discuss this and bring math into it, then do it. You don’t need videos to post in this thread and engage in discussion, voice your concerns and explain why you think the way you. It’s not as concrete as extensive testing and recording, but it’s about all we’ve got and it’s better than just complaining or insulting each other.

The date behind the skills won’t tell you if something is broken or not. Just because it looks good on paper doesn’t mean it’ll do well in practice. Player feedback and discussions (in the case debate) are just as important as raw data in determining if things should be changed or not. Anet actually listens, our voices have impact. Rather than bicker and squander that we should be productive in this thread.

Valentin.2073:

i guess, warriors gonna get a huge nerf. i hope rangers will be the next warriors after the next balance patch.

more power to the spirits. spirit of nature needs more healing power.

My money is on Engineers.

Chicago Jack.5647:

Your “testing” methodology is horrendous and this thread is largely a waste of space. Zanryu, reading this might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_%28statistics%29

Seriously, this thread is so full of stupid.

I’d love to know why.

I tested damage using a Steady Bow, so the results would be the same each time. I used Arcing Arrow as it does the largest amount of damage when compared to the other Bow skills for a Warrior.

I attacked the Heavy Golem, recorded the results, did the math, and the numbers came out as what you saw. I tested on the other Golems and got the same difference in damage.

I’m not claiming the Amulet I prefer is better for other builds, but for a Hambow build it seems to work out pretty well. The test I did seems pretty solid.

1. Attack a target with a skill of choice using the amulet of choice.
2. Record both base and critical damage. (Chance isn’t factored as the chance is the same with either amulet)
3. Attack the same target with the same skill using the other amulet.
4. Record both base and critical damage.
5. Calculate the difference between base and critical damages respectively.
6. Get whined at on the forums.

There were no variable factors, and this was done without boons. The results I got from the tests I did are as accurate as I could possibly get, seeing as it was done on the exact same target with the exact same skill using the exact same weapon that has a flat damage rate.

I chose the skill with the highest damage in order to more accurately gauge the differences in the results, as well as because under the same conditions other skills won’t be able to match the damage output. The 6,000 was more of an example, as the highest number I’ve hit so far in Tournament play is 5,500 on a Thief. My hits tend to average far lower, even on Light Armor classes.

What test would you prefer to show the difference between amulets? If you’re going to criticize me at least tell me what I did wrong and what I should do instead. It looks to me as if my results are accurate, so if they aren’t show me how and tell me a different test to perform.

Here’s a video of two different fights, you can see that we actually struggle to win a team fight or two. Merely being there as a Warrior didn’t turn the tide of the fight to our favor automatically, nor was I landing kill after kill after kill with extremely large amounts of damage.

I’m sure I’ll be called bad yet again, however I still have yet to see any good evidence from the other side of the argument. If anyone has more videos of Warriors destroying people, or better yet of your fights against Warriors, please post them.

In the mean time, here’s a couple of fights I had recently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAiLk7hjnJg

Also, Hundred Blades still requires a fair amount of effort to actually land, especially if your opponent runs Stun breakers or Stability.

zencow.3651:

Damage Formula

As those two said:

You know that it is hard that someone will take your videos seriously until you learn the basics of the combat in this game, right?

Jax.5261:

Maths is apparently too hard.

I’m supposed to take math lessons from someone who doesn’t realize that it’s actually impossible to have “hundreds” of people who believe I’m bad when the thread in question has 167 total posts? Where people create multiple posts?

sorrow.2364:

We aren’t the vocal minority, pretty much everyone thinks that.

I don’t want to blame you for not being a top level player, I’m not the best player too and I really don’t care how good you are as much as I care about what you say.

I’m blaming you because you want to put the question into “video evidence”, despite many people have said that they are not valid and even when someone else have answered your video evidence, you keep considering your video more valid compared to the one Sensotix has posted (which is a well known and good player), despite the fact that many people have said that you aren’t a valid sample because you seems to lack the game familiarity needed to compete at a good level in PvP.

I’m blaming you because you dismissed the mathematical evidences of Phantaram (Oblivion) with horrible arguments.

I don’t recall actually dismissing his arguments, though I have to agree with some of the arguments against him. The math alone isn’t all that matters, there’s the matter of side effects such as block or stealth. Also, as I’ve mentioned multiple times Healing Signet denies the Warrior of a Burst Heal which can be extremely important in certain situations.

So where did I go wrong in my math? My excuse is that it’s 5 in the morning.

EDIT: I never claimed my video was more valid than his, however I am not going to simply accept what he posts without having a good look at it in the same way nobody seems to accept what I post. Simply having that rank doesn’t entitle him or anyone else to being able to post what they want and having it taken as correct. I posted my thoughts on the video in the same way people posted their thoughts on mine, or should I just tell everyone they shouldn’t discuss anything and have the thread closed? I’ll pass.

Jax.5261:

Zanryu.3417:

sorrow.2364:

Zanryu.3417:

I know what barbarian amulet is and I know that it is an horrible choice.

Bersker Amulet: 1,905 Power/3,016 Attack Power
47% Crit Chance/ 50% Critical Damage
21,662 HP

Barbarian Amulet: 16,76 Power/2,787 Attack Power
47% Crit Chacne/35% Critical Damage
26,802 HP

I lose out on 229 Attack Power and 15% Critical Damage but gain 5,140 HP. Why is that such a horrible thing?

Jax.5261:

People would actually get worse by watching your videos.
Posting these are 100% POINTLESS, your mechanics are too awful to prove any of your bad points (bar bad players will lose because they’re bad).

You don’t seem angry at all. EEEEYEWWWWWW.

Not entirely sure how I’m meant to be angry?
Maybe frustrated at how poorly you actually play?

Like “gah how can anybody be that bad, this frustrates me!”

It’s strange how you seem to be the vocal minority who believes I’m a horrible Warrior. You, Sorrow, and that Ahuba guy. This isn’t a thread about my skills as a Warrior though.

sorrow.2364:

Zanryu.3417:

I know what barbarian amulet is and I know that it is an horrible choice.

Bersker Amulet: 1,905 Power/3,016 Attack Power
47% Crit Chance/ 50% Critical Damage
21,662 HP

Barbarian Amulet: 16,76 Power/2,787 Attack Power
47% Crit Chacne/35% Critical Damage
26,802 HP

I lose out on 229 Attack Power and 15% Critical Damage but gain 5,140 HP. Why is that such a horrible thing?

Jax.5261:

People would actually get worse by watching your videos.
Posting these are 100% POINTLESS, your mechanics are too awful to prove any of your bad points (bar bad players will lose because they’re bad).

You don’t seem angry at all. EEEEYEWWWWWW.

sorrow.2364:

Zanryu.3417:

My Hambow build is similar to the one you posted, the main difference being I tend to use a Barbarian Amulet as opposed to Berserker and slot Endure Pain rather than Dolyak Signet.

So.. I’ll toss on a Berserker Amulet and Dolyak Signet then call it a day? Yeesh.

Barbarian amulet?!
You know that it is hard that someone will take your videos seriously until you learn the basics of the combat in this game, right?

sorrow.2364:

Zanryu.3417:

I’m fairly certain I asked for people to post whatever build they feel is OP. Post the build you believe to be overpowered, every specific detail. Traits, Sigils, Runes, Amulet, Weapons, Armor Dyes, Hair Color, everything. Seriously. Tell me which exact build it is so I can use it so as to avoid the “ya dun use da bestest build so ur stuff iz no gud” argument.

Or.. you know. Stop posting.

Those builds have been posted so many times that I’m under the idea that you are just trying to fool us.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-ss-o;1NKVP0f4NLVQ0;9;59T-T;13;0189;157AC-V4;2sV2DsV2D5kD
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sBxF-0-NKVP0f4ZKVQ0;9;49-TT-2;308A48A;1Uok67;1Uwl6Uwl66NN

I’m posting them again, since you apparently aren’t capable to search them for yourself on the internet.

My Hambow build is similar to the one you posted, the main difference being I tend to use a Barbarian Amulet as opposed to Berserker and slot Endure Pain rather than Dolyak Signet.

So.. I’ll toss on a Berserker Amulet and Dolyak Signet then call it a day? Yeesh.

cottage.3274:

first video first 5 sec fear me into stability!
for heaven’s sake saveface and go away already guy.

The tournaments are meant to see me gradually get better as I compete more and more, that video was from my first week of doing sPvP. So where’s that video of an overpowered Warrior?

I dunno man, my Mad King build is still stomping everyone I come across.

sorrow.2364:

Ashanor.5319:

I never said it was in tPvP. Saying I jumped in some games pretty much implies hotjoin, and it also wasn’t a phantasm build. I wouldn’t have jumped into tPvP matches on a class I didn’t know, especially when I only joined solo. I am also not responding to you anymore as you are not bringing anything worthwhile to this conversation either.

I’m under the impression that you don’t want to have a discussion at all.

We have brought proofs.
High-level players have spoken and said their opinion about the Warriors.
We have brought logical and even mathematical evidences in support of our arguments.

You are refusing them all saying that 6 months ago you’ve jumped in an hotjoin match and you managed to kill 3 people as a mesmer?
Is this really your counter argument to the fact that at high level play, Sensotix jumped on a profession he never played and managed to get results every other profession can only dream of..?

I mean, do you even realize the argument you’re bringing? And then you say that I’m not bringing anything worthwhile to the conversation?

Seriously?

Kind of like the one where he only actually had one fight that would even slightly demonstrate what people are talking about, and even then it really didn’t?

Legit.

hackks.3687:

Zanryu.3417:

hackks.3687:

Zanryu.3417:

If your strategy is to apply conditions, then yes, it would be smart to wait for Berserker Stance to wear off before engaging the Warrior via running away or exiting the Sky Hammer via the portal. It’s a widely used tactic and as much as I hate having it done to me, I can see the usefulness. You don’t go headfirst into somebody that’s got Stability up with a Stun or Fear in the same way you shouldn’t engage a Warrior with Berserker Stances up with a strategy involving conditions.

and you don’t see something wrong with the fact that the only counter play is to wait 8-10 secs for the skill to wear off? specially for a build that is mechanically designed to counter bunkers and healing? his strategy has to be to concede 8-10sec of uninterrupted/unimpeded healing?

you want to know why you made this thread? because you don’t actually know what’s wrong with warriors

I didn’t know Berserker stance prevented stuns, direct damage, and dodge rolls. If you want to rely on conditions you’ll have to kite Berserker Stance, that’s a given. It doesn’t block direct damage or stuns though, so even with the stance up Warriors can still be taken down. What do you do when someone uses Stability? You either kite it off or you go in with conditions or direct damage rather than use stuns or fear.

stuns don’t turn off healing signet, direct damage doesn’t counter healing, dodge rolls having nothing to do with any of it.

care to keep trying?

True. Uh.. yes it does? Dodge rolls allow you to dodge CC or large amounts of damage if properly timed.

Do you care to keep trying?

ahuba.6430:

Ashanor.5319:

ahuba.6430:

Ashanor.5319:

ahuba.6430:

Zanryu.3417:

That 2v1 with the Engineer showed nothing. That short fight with a Thief didn’t show anything either. Neither did the fight that followed that, which ended up ending prematurely due to the Sky hammer being used. The 1v1 with the Thief at the Hammer was a matter of you outplaying the thief. They barely even attempted to dodge or lay down smoke fields, and if that’s because they were previously in a fight then you going in with nothing on cooldown and taking down someone who was on cooldown doesn’t show very much either.

No, wait. That Thief was absolutely horrible as seen in the second fight, they barely play to their class strengths. So far it seems to me as if the people you beat aren’t that great and are getting outplayed, regardless of class.

I’m sure people are going to latch onto this video and use it as irrefutable evidence that Warriors are overpowered monsters but I’m not entirely convinced.

its funny that you are calling those players terrible. please tell us your team and solo queue record.

The way these guys talk you would be like “kitten they must really play alot of pvp and be very experienced”. and then you check them out and, for example, this ashanor guy doesnt even play tpvp, or atleast hasnt played in the new meta. and others have like kittenty kittenty win/loss ratios. and yeah, leaderboards are joke, but good players still go up and bad players go down.

Funny how you always try to resort back to insulting people over ranks. lol

I guess when all else fails, insult and defame people. Hey, it works for politics, why not video game forums!

cant you read? i said you dont play tpvp! zzzzz and leaderboard win/loss ratio is a valid argument against ones knowledge of the game when the ratio is really really low… i mean, one of the arguments zanryu keeps tossing out is that people need to l2p agaisnt warrior when he is a terrible player himself lol

Have you watched all his videos, or at least one or two besides the one he posted simply to prove a point? How do you know he is really bad? You don’t.

Keep thinking peoples opinions don’t matter simply because they don’t care to put together a decent tPvP team or think solo queue is a joke though. It’s funny, really.

Also, my team PvP score really isn’t that bad for someone who did nothing but queued solo and did it pre warrior buffs. I was at like 95% or higher (can’t remember how high they went) before I stopped playing tPvP out of boredom. It is 65% or so now because I haven’t touched it in who knows how long.

It doesn’t matter though, as I have already said before. Now, I am going to play some AC IV. Stop arguing and post your “proof” already.

I SAID, that you’re arguments are crap because you havent played tpvp in the current meta!!!! Therefor you have no possible knowledge of the state of warrior in tpvp. Now refute this argument.

He is really bad, not only because he posted a video of him playing like a complete braindead person, but also because he has a 30% win ratio. Good players dont loose 70% of their matches.

34% win ratio in team queue, 38% in solo.

Either way, my teams performance in either of those doesn’t accurately reflect my ability as a player, seeing as those results come from the whole of my team vs the whole of our opponent’s team.

Oh, and I don’t get to pick my teammates in solo.

I’m beginning to think everyone should just stop responding to you as you offer nothing to the conversation.

hackks.3687:

Zanryu.3417:

If your strategy is to apply conditions, then yes, it would be smart to wait for Berserker Stance to wear off before engaging the Warrior via running away or exiting the Sky Hammer via the portal. It’s a widely used tactic and as much as I hate having it done to me, I can see the usefulness. You don’t go headfirst into somebody that’s got Stability up with a Stun or Fear in the same way you shouldn’t engage a Warrior with Berserker Stances up with a strategy involving conditions.

and you don’t see something wrong with the fact that the only counter play is to wait 8-10 secs for the skill to wear off? specially for a build that is mechanically designed to counter bunkers and healing? his strategy has to be to concede 8-10sec of uninterrupted/unimpeded healing?

you want to know why you made this thread? because you don’t actually know what’s wrong with warriors

I didn’t know Berserker stance prevented stuns, direct damage, and dodge rolls. If you want to rely on conditions you’ll have to kite Berserker Stance, that’s a given. It doesn’t block direct damage or stuns though, so even with the stance up Warriors can still be taken down. What do you do when someone uses Stability? You either kite it off or you go in with conditions or direct damage rather than use stuns or fear.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Zanryu.3417:

Enjoyluck.2618:

Here is proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDhWCwlXX20

You know what I saw? Five members of a team playing the same class, but with builds that were different enough that they could still support each other as a team. Isn’t that how it should be? Shouldn’t every class be able to perform every role to at least some degree? Isn’t that a good model to base other class updates on? I wouldn’t call diversity broken. Sure, it makes it a bit difficult to be prepared for each build you could come across, but diversity is a good thing.

You know what I saw? A profession that needs to be nerfed into the ground. Jonathan Sharp said that if you saw team compositions that were running double of a particular profession it was a clear indicator that profession was out of line and needed to be nerfed.

5 Warriors = mega-nerf.

That’s a blanket statement, there are definitely times when that’s viable and does not justify a nerf. Assuming everything is on even terms for the sake of argument, let’s say there was a DPS Warrior and a Bunker Warrior. They both use two very different styles of play and do different things, however because they’re on the same team that justifies some form of nerf to either playstyle? That makes no sense.

If there was a super build running around that could decimate all other builds of all other professions I’d be worried, but as it stands I don’t believe build diversity is a negative thing.

sorrow.2364:

You’re out of your mind.
The first thing thief tried to do is to lay down the smoke field to see them doing nothing to the zerker stance warrior.

How biased can someone be?
Just leave the forums now before you compromise yourself even more.

I noticed they tried in other fights, but during the one on Hammer they only laid one. Also, as I said, they barely dodged. You need to learn to comprehend what other people say. Take the time to properly process it before you post.

If you’d like to contribute something useful we’re all waiting.

sorrow.2364:

Ashanor.5319:

So a thief should always have free blinds on a warrior? lol

Do you understand how damaging blind is to a warrior now that you can’t auto attack it off? Thief should have kited until berserker stance was down or left the hammer until it was down, everyone knows the hammer is great place for cc. The thief was bad to try to fight a hammer warrior in a confined space known for being great for hammer warriors since the day the map released (even before hammer was considered decent).

So you’re saying that the thief made the mistake of engaging the warrior? HOW DARE HE?

If your strategy is to apply conditions, then yes, it would be smart to wait for Berserker Stance to wear off before engaging the Warrior via running away or exiting the Sky Hammer via the portal. It’s a widely used tactic and as much as I hate having it done to me, I can see the usefulness. You don’t go headfirst into somebody that’s got Stability up with a Stun or Fear in the same way you shouldn’t engage a Warrior with Berserker Stances up with a strategy involving conditions.

a t s e.9614:

Omfg I’m done with those forums , I just noticed you are the same guy that posted a video about warr vs MINION FRIGGIN NECRO . Dude thkse videos are so fail … you were fighting 3v1 and got stomped.and this is supposed to prove that warrior is not OP . Is this some kind of joke or something
Post 1v1 videos no laggy mess and skill vs skill . That was such a poor gameplay …. spamming earthshaker in a BLIND FIELD …… Now I know why people say warr is not OP . Even with all this stuff they can’t win ….. i’m serious im not gonna argue about random crap on these forums ,

You DO realize GW2 is more of a team based game, rather than 1v1 right? Tournament fights will be considered more important. In any case, I’ll try to get some 1v1 fights.

a t s e.9614:

Zanryu , I’m still watiing the vid of my build against decent players.

Video of your build in a 4v5 Tournament. It was all I could get before I went to town.

hackks.3687:

If all you’re going to do is ask people to post videos so you can debate what they did right or wrong you should probably change the title of the thread to “Warriors OP? Let’s Debate It.”

I feel the title is accurate, seeing as I’m asking for people to show how overpowered Warriors are.

Enjoyluck.2618:

Here is proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDhWCwlXX20

You know what I saw? Five members of a team playing the same class, but with builds that were different enough that they could still support each other as a team. Isn’t that how it should be? Shouldn’t every class be able to perform every role to at least some degree? Isn’t that a good model to base other class updates on? I wouldn’t call diversity broken. Sure, it makes it a bit difficult to be prepared for each build you could come across, but diversity is a good thing.

Sensotix.4106:

So this is my prove..
I know it’s solo Q
It’s the only video I had online..
It shows me playing warrior for like one of the first times ever in my whole guild wars 2 pvp history completely destroying a thief and an engineer even having my ultimate up after the 2 vs 1
I am annoyed because it was so easy and no matter how well I play my mesmer there would have been no way I could do this with it
I said the mesmer came in but i actually downed both before he even attacked one of them

Minute: 07:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHjBQkhgMlk

That 2v1 with the Engineer showed nothing. That short fight with a Thief didn’t show anything either. Neither did the fight that followed that, which ended up ending prematurely due to the Sky hammer being used. The 1v1 with the Thief at the Hammer was a matter of you outplaying the thief. They barely even attempted to dodge or lay down smoke fields, and if that’s because they were previously in a fight then you going in with nothing on cooldown and taking down someone who was on cooldown doesn’t show very much either.

No, wait. That Thief was absolutely horrible as seen in the second fight, they barely play to their class strengths. So far it seems to me as if the people you beat aren’t that great and are getting outplayed, regardless of class.

I’m sure people are going to latch onto this video and use it as irrefutable evidence that Warriors are overpowered monsters but I’m not entirely convinced.

sorrow.2364:

Rednik.3809:

sorrow.2364:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pin_Down
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hammer_Shock
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Earthshaker

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun_break
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal

You know that if you want to run away from a Warrior you probably have already used them, right?

You know that if you’re in a position where you have to run from a Warrior, it’s somewhat likely he outplayed you. Pin Down, Earth Shaker, Staggering Blow, and Backbreaker can be dodged you silly goose. Basically if you dodge Pin Down you’re gonna be able to escape a Hambow build, simply because the Warrior has such a low amount of mobility outside of Earthshaker’s 600 range.

Thief has teleports, Mesmer has teleports and clones to distract, Rangers can retaliate with a knockdown of their own, Necromancers can knock down or immobilize as well, Guardians can cleanse the Immobilize, Engineers can pull, set up ‘nades, Immobilize, there’s quite a few options for escaping a Hambow Warrior. If the Warrior opts for mobility then it’s unlikely they’ll be able to keep you in place for prolonged periods of time anyway, given they’d sacrifice their bow or hammer, or another cc weapon in order to use GS, Sword, or possibly Warhorn. The point here is, that in order to have that mobility the Warrior will be sacrificing some form of cc or damage.