Guild Wars 2

a t s e.9614:

Zanryu , I’m still watiing the vid of my build against decent players.

I only managed to get a tPvP fight before going to town which is currently uploading to YouTube.

silentnight warrior.2714:

At OP:

You are doing it wrong. You should ask people to put here the vídeos where a warrior beat them for being OP, then we can analise the vídeo and help them to improve.

I say this because even if you are a good player and you loose some fights, people will always going to say that you suck as a warrior and that wont count as a proof.

Edited OP to include this, thanks.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I didn’t play my warrior for 3 months, i just played it in spvp now, guess what? I 3x in row had the highest rank points, and i won several 1 vs 2 it was hilarous, and i don’t master this class yet by a longshot, (enemy team had rank 40 and 61 players, so they can’t have been total noobs).

Counter as many times as you want warrior main owning players, but you are overpowered. Or maybe that’s the wrong thing to say, i think warrior are pretty ok atm. But Anet needs to seriously let go of their bounderies they set for other profession ‘sorry but ele is not about damage, they have more skills then other players so we give them less damage’, these awkward statements, must go away, and deleted forever, like you did with warrior (one class can’t be good in everything, after boost to condi counter, stun improvements, trait improvements, warrior so far is the only profession that’s good in everything, if builded for it). Time to let go of the bounderies on other professions now too Anet.

What build did you use? What Traits and weapons? What Utilities? Who did you fight in 1v2s? Be more specific.

a t s e.9614:

Nope , let him post vids of the build I posted above . I’m using this build and havent lost any. 1v1 yet .

So.. what are you wanting.. 1v1? Or tPvP?

Jackal.8263:

evilapprentice.6379:

Zanryu.3417:

evilapprentice.6379:

Zanryu.3417:

evilapprentice.6379:

You need to more strictly define Point 3 – your list of examples is fulfilled by Cleansing ire and Greatsword.

Mmkay edited. Was a bit busy when I posted this thread. Got a build to post?

For that matter, anyone got a build to post?

GS M/S still seems like it comes close to filling those requirements – enough CC (not as much as M/S H of course), and not much AoE, but it’s still there.

Do you want to post the exact build so I can enter a queue with it and record the results?

Not particularly. I was simply trying to be helpful as far as your list of test cases went.

I have no idea who you are, nor how good you are, so I don’t see how you testing things can prove anything to me – perhaps you’re an amazing player and you make the class look OP when it’s not – perhaps you’re a really poor player and you make the class look UP when its not.

Even if I knew for a fact you were the well qualified for testing, generating a bit of anecdotal evidence isn’t going to help much either way. It doesn’t matter whose point you “prove” with this, conclusions drawn from it will be wrong due to improper testing. Anet has access to the statistics, they’ll hopefully use that information when they determine if any changes need to be done.

Evil, I don’t know you, but I respect you. The way you think and then transfer that thinking to a forum post is top notch. You are one of the few who makes an effort not to allow personal bias are feeling to stain the point you’re trying to make. It is a talent I do not have. Best of luck.

It’s nice to see people can post without being disrespectful or insulting. It’s a welcome break from the attitude this topic generates for the most part.

a t s e.9614:

0\10\30\0\30 hambow
soldier gear+ runes of ogre and para sigil

Utilities: dolyak, balance stance , zerk stance

Why I believe it’s Op:
Immune to conditions dmg : cleansing ire+ zerk stance
Immune to CC: stability 8sec x2
Immune to sustained dmg : healing signet+ adrenalhealth
Massive damage and CC : earthshaker+ merciless hammer+ unspec foes
Massive burning damage with 0 condi dmg : longbow burning

Warrior has 1 weakness : heavy burst damage .
You need a pro thief to take down a passive warrior that use
ground target skills .

Alrighty, gonna start recording this build.

evilapprentice.6379:

Zanryu.3417:

evilapprentice.6379:

You need to more strictly define Point 3 – your list of examples is fulfilled by Cleansing ire and Greatsword.

Mmkay edited. Was a bit busy when I posted this thread. Got a build to post?

For that matter, anyone got a build to post?

GS M/S still seems like it comes close to filling those requirements – enough CC (not as much as M/S H of course), and not much AoE, but it’s still there.

Do you want to post the exact build so I can enter a queue with it and record the results?

evilapprentice.6379:

You need to more strictly define Point 3 – your list of examples is fulfilled by Cleansing ire and Greatsword.

Mmkay edited. Was a bit busy when I posted this thread. Got a build to post?

For that matter, anyone got a build to post?

Valentin.2073:

let’s just make some videos how a warrior can be countered 1v1. how about that?

stupid question: how can i film gw2? do i use a software?

Fraps and Bandicam are solid options. To edit Windows Movie Maker works just fine for basic things, but if you’d like to get fancy I recommend Sony Vegas Pro. I’d use Vegas if it weren’t for it destroying my video’s ratio no matter what settings I choose.

Evilek.5690:

Rednik.3809:

Evilek.5690:

Immobilized on 1 sec in spvp and 2 sec in WvWvW every 3 autoattack because Leg Specialist is broken,OP passive HP regen and 4200 armors in spvp and 4500+ in wvwvw.

Stopped reading after that. Ppl like you should be banned from forum with reason “crazy fat trolling and zero knowledge about class”

What ? Every 3 autoattack you are in immobil.For you every 3 autoattack chain(+-4.5 sec).F 1H sword 3 sec imobil 10sec CD,Savage Leap 1 sec immobil 8 sec CD, Throw Bolas 4sec immobil 20 sec CD, with of hand axe Throw Axe 1 sec immobil 10sec CD or Stun with shield.
Next weapon set Bow: Pin Down 3sec imobil 25 sec CD or greatesword Bladetrail 2 sec immobil 15 sec CD.

It must be really awkward for you that Melandru Runes and Lemongrass Poultry Soup, you know, exist.

infantrydiv.1620:

You are a bad player. No one cares.

Also, please understand that when an experiment is conducted by someone with an obviously heavy bias toward one direction, it isn’t valid.

I’m offering an unbiased video. One that includes entire fights, both 1v1 and team fights. I’m not offering stories of why I think builds x, y, and z are balanced. I’m offering to record the builds people complain about to show whether or not they’re truly imbalanced.

So as I said, let’s see those builds people.

I will be recording tournament fights of each build posted. The purpose of this thread is to use the exact build people believe is OP so there can be no confusion or debate about utilities, traits, etc.. etc.. used.

If you believe Warriors are overpowered post the exact build you believe to be broken .(sPvP Amulet+Runes+Sigils+Weapon Set+Utilities+Traits) Explain why you believe it’s broken if it doesn’t fall into the following category.

Current arguments against Warrior:

• Conditions resistance is too strong.
• Healing Signet is too strong. (Consequentially all other heals now unviable)
• Warriors can “have it all” in one build. (Mobility, DPS, Condition removal, AoE, Sustain, Stunlock)
• Warriors are easy to play and allow high levels of success at low skill levels.

Those tend to be the general arguments against the Warrior class. If a better Warrior than myself would like to take over and post videos of the builds suggested in action, feel free, but until such a time I’ll be doing this as it seems nobody else from either side is.

Also, if you have videos of Warriors being extremely overpowered and utterly destroying you or someone else please post them. Videos from both sides can only help the discussion.

So let’s see those builds people, post ’em if you got ’em.

Oblivion.8307:

Ashanor.5319:

ahuba.6430:

if you havent played in 2 months how the hell can you know what you are talking about. its easy to see that when you talk about a defensive amulet since lb/hammer warriors go zerker amulet. and i dare you to find me a testimony of a recognized high tier player saying warriors are fine.
and its funny because you’re part of the “low rank” you are talking about.

I’m part of the low rank? How do you figure? I was like 95% or higher in team queue when queuing only solo. As for solo queue, I gave up shortly after it was implemented because I kept getting grouped with bad players (I see better players in hotjoin). lol

Bet you $20.00 Defektive would tell you Warrior is fine, but it seems most of the good teams have quit, likely more due to condition spam than what you would have people believe.

Hi, I duo queued to rank 200-220(euteamqboard) when first free trial period was out. I’m currently rank 2 on eu teamqueue (could play 1 game and get rank one if i wanted), Have peaked @ 1 on EU Teamqueue, 8 on EU soloqueue, 1 on NA soloqueue and 118th on NA teamqueue. With these credentials being said, I think warriors are op. Good day.

Credentials are worthless if you can’t post a solid argument. WHY do you think they’re OP?

I made a thread in the sPvP forum and asked for video proof, but so far there is none.

Thread is here, if anyone wants to check it out.

Volrath.1473:

nicknamenick.2437:

There are still other broken classes with OP builds (if played well ofc)

Stopped reading right there! you know what!? you are right!! Some professions can be OP if PLAYED WELL. Warriors can simply roll their faces on the keyboard and get free kills. that’s were the problem is!

No one minds having good competitive Warriors to play with and against, thing is atm every single warrior is competitive, even the ones that played the profession for 5 min, skill is not a requirement to play warrior atm and that is simply lame…

Also lame is coming to the forum whining about other ppl whining. -_-’

The funny thing about this is I created a thread showing a Warrior in a fight. The Necromancer and Thief won and due to this the Warrior was called bad. Rather than accept their own logic and this particular argument, they instead stated that any other class would not have handled that kind of abuse well and the Warrior class alone is what cushioned the fight.

It seems as if the people who believe Warrior is overpowered will find any little thing they can to complain about and if something gets disproved they’ll move on to something else.

Cynz.9437:

Velron.3729:

Every time I read someone complain that Warrior is OP I see it translated by my brain as :

“I’m really bad. I don’t bring stun breakers, or waste them if I do. I also waste all my dodges on auto attacks. I can’t survive for even 8 seconds and waste all my CC during that 8 second immunity.”

Fragg – Engineer | Lil Zek – Warrior PVP R43
[DA] Decisive Actions – Jade Quarry

i lol’d

Me too, I mean it’s pretty hilarious that Warriors should get to have an opinion isn’kitten

NevirSayDie.6235:

Zanryu.3417:

Cynz.9437:

you know there is something wrong when i go to do tpvp and half of the ppl on map are warriors… i am sadly not even extraggerating

That doesn’t necessarily equate to overpowered. That could just as easily be word of mouth or hype.

FOTM doesn’t just happen for no reason. Word of mouth and hype are the same thing.

I’d say warriors are FOTM because they’re incredibly forgiving, easy to get kills with and just a little too powerful overall. The worst thing is that it makes them horribly imbalanced at entry-level PvP, because the starting builds can’t even do enough damage to keep up with the regen.

What do you mean by starting builds? Builds that people just throw together without checking to see how effective it is or without looking at meta builds? ‘cause if you’re using a non meta build vs a meta build, one that’s been tested and shown to work well, can you really expect to do as well as you’d like?

You’re gonna have to define “starting build”.

Cynz.9437:

you know there is something wrong when i go to do tpvp and half of the ppl on map are warriors… i am sadly not even extraggerating

That doesn’t necessarily equate to overpowered. That could just as easily be word of mouth or hype.

Coulter.2315:

Take a mesmer and stand still like a lemon when fighting a necromancer with that same build and check the time differences in death xD

Seriously all you’ve proven is that standing still in red circles and eating every attack is bad and that a warrior can do it for about 35secs longer than most professions.

I didn’t know moving around meant standing still. My bad man, my bad.

Silferas.3841:

I think Zanryu is either an overfed troll or just a crazed lunatic. Of course warriors can be killed. Every friggin profession can. That proves nothing. I can make a video of full bunker guardian getting killed while mashing his skills and it wouldn’t show a thing.

You need to compare what professions CAN do when played in capable hands, and how capable the hands have to be to make those professions work. Quite apparently (assuming from your videos) you are incapable of playing a warrior properly, what you have shown us is a joke.

Okay, so just to confirm… Bad players on Warriors killing people isn’t the issue? People can’t just hop on Warriors and suddenly be better than majority of the people they’re fighting? That seems like what you’re trying to say, and if so then you’re pretty much arguing against one of the main points people on your side try to make.

If a class can’t simply be picked up and used to great effect it isn’t overpowered, if it is strong in capable hands and can perform well in a situation where it is used by a good player that isn’t overpowered, that’s a good player making use of a class and succeeding at beating others.

Hmm. Interesting. Because this leaves us with a few scenarios:

Bad people complaining because they can’t adapt. Opinions no longer valid.
Underskilled people complaining because they can’t overcome. Opinions no longer valid.
New people complaining because they don’t understand. Opinions no longer valid.

Their opinions are no longer valid under your logic of course, being that we should only consider what Warriors can do in the hands of a player that has a lot of experience and performs extremely well. Of course, should we be discussing that, I’d like to bring up how strong Engineers can be. They’ve got pretty good burst damage, fair enough sustain, and the ability to drop a ton of conditions on a target. You don’t see me complaining about them, but they can be used extremely effectively in the right hands. Should I go make a thread complaining about how powerful they are? Or try to find ways around what they do? Which seems more productive?

Ezrael.6859:

Healing Signet is better than Shelter as a personal heal. It will heal 8000 more over 30s than Shelter possibly can. As for the 2s block with Shelter making a difference, if you are in a position to block 8000 damage in 2s you will explode straight after healing anyway.
So if you want to try that argument, it’s unrealistic, but it wouldn’t be surprising to see it attempted by someone like you.
You take no damage while blocking with Shelter? Really? Tell that to existing conditions, unblockable marks, unblockable traps, unblockable Thief, Ele and Warrior strikes.
Renewed Focus is 2 seconds, stop getting your info from out of date websites, it’s 2s in-game.

And an area you can’t get through? Ha, Stability, Pull and Teleport say hi. I’ve even seen people jump over Ring of Warding, you completely overrate it, along with a lot of other things.

Anyway, I’m out of here. Your gameplay is bad and your arguments even worse.

A Warrior isn’t going to sit there for 30 seconds and just not take damage. If the Warrior’s in a fight they’ll be getting hit and under more than one person Healing Signet can be negated for the most part. Healing 400 HP/sec with another 400 thrown in every 3 isn’t enough to make the damage coming in during a team fight inconsequential.

Even with existing conditions that two second Block guarantees a heal, one that’ll recover a significant amount of HP. All while blocking any incoming direct damage outside a very limited set of options. Healing Signet blocks absolutely nothing and doesn’t allow the Warrior to burst heal. That two seconds of Block can mean the difference between staying up or going down. Healing Signet is far overrated.

Warriors are super resistant to Conditions with Bersker Stance and Burst skills? Blind says hi. Weapon swap says hi. Missing the target says hi. Low Adrenaline says hi. Stuns say hi. Existing conditions on Berserker Stance say hi.

Guardians still have more options that can’t be avoided as easily as a stun, knockback, launch, or knockdown. Burst skills don’t last an infinite amount of time. Two seconds can absorb a fair amount of damage and keep you in the fight, and you seem to be forgetting about the 3 second Invulnerability Guardians have as well.

Ezrael.6859:

Sword 2 has a blind? That’s nice Dorothy but you stated the build was using Mace/Shield so what are you on about you utter Trollope. Choose a weapon set and stick with it in your poor arguments.

Renewed Focus is only 2 seconds in duration, the trait extends it to 3, so you’re clueless actually.

And a 2 second block (Shelter) is NOT the same as invulnerability, Shelter can be interrupted by many things, goes on full cool down and provides no healing.

Your game knowledge and understanding is about as good as your skill as a Warrior.

It’s a little awkward how having a 2 second block on your heal that can be interrupted by VERY few things is still far better than quite a few of the other heals in game. Even if it isn’t invulnerability you’re still not going to be taking damage while you heal, and you block out incoming damage.

Mace Shield has a knockback and a heal, along with Protection. That’s pretty good honestly. Combined with the block and invuln, along with two Aegis (the passive then the one from activating virtue) and Guardians are already better defensively than Warriors, even with their lack of HP.

I didn’t run Mace/Shield on my Guardian so I admit I got a little mixed up, but even with that Guardians are defensive beasts. Nevermind using a Scepter or Sword/Focus with a Hammer. Their weapon sets have quite a lot of defensive power behind them, unlike Warriors who rely on the stuns from their sets as their defense and offense, and who only have access to one good block. So let’s compare, shall we?

Guardian (Hammer/Mace+Focus): Aegis x2 (3 if passive is active at start, followed by virtue, followed by virtue again after Renewed Focus), 3 attack block, 2 second block, 3 second invulnerability, launch, and an area that can’t be gotten through.

Warrior (Hammer/Mace+Shield): 3 second block, 1 second block, 3 second stun. 2 second stun, knockback, knockdown.

Oh yeah.. Warriors are definitely get the better end of the stick here.

It’s the same when it comes to damaging, or conditions as well. The classes that are actually meant for it do it far better than a Warrior. Unless you think a Warrior can do a better job at DPSing in PvP than a Thief or Mesmer or apply conditions better than an Engineer or Necromancer. I sure haven’t seen that happen yet, but hey. Maybe you’re right. Maybe Warriors are better at everything than everyone else. Or maybe they aren’t. My money is on the second one.

sorrow.2364:

What you are failing to understand, Zanryu, is that posting a video is not an evidence.

I can post a video of me as a Warrior beating out an afk player and then say “Hey, look! I killed that guy without taking any damage! Warrior is OP”, but that wouldn’t be a proof at all.

On the other hand, comparisons between the warrior meta builds and other build is a good way to prove that something is OP.
Checking the population might be also a sign of something being OP.
People have done that and came to the conclusion that Warrior is OP.

They provide no evidence that Warriors are OP though. My showing a video is more tangible than ANYTHING I’ve seen anyone on this thread say so far.

People complaining with no proof might be a sign that they’re just unable to adapt and really like theorycrafting.

vinceftw.5086:

Zanryu.3417:

vinceftw.5086:

So you’re trying to proof your point by using the 2nd (or 1st) strongest class in the game, the necromancer. If a warrior can’t cleanse conditions enough, think about what others can do? Nothing.

Oh boy. Someone seems to be missing the point.

What you seem to be saying is “I think Class A is overpowered. If someone using Class B can beat someone using Class A, Class B is even more overpowered and all other classes stand no chance.” How is that constructive? How is that at all helpful? The people who think Warriors are overpowered seem to be unable to form proper arguments to support their point.

So let me say this. Before you post here, think. Don’t just type away on your keyboard and tell me Warriors are OP or that I suck. I want you to THINK. Think about your reply, tell me WHY we’re OP. Give a good argument to support your claim. Otherwise I’m not going to take anything you post seriously.

Let’s not have this be a bunch of Warrior haters circlejerking each other with no real counter-arguments.

That was not my point. You’re saying that warriors still melt to conditions and you use the example of the necromancer. The necro has the most conditions in the game and strongest burst condition in the game so it’s obvious they can kill a warrior. Other classes aren’t so lucky with their condition removal.

And I’m not a warrior hater, I have one myself, they’re just OP. Yes, hammer skills are telegraphed but A) people don’t have unlimited stun breaks and dodges auto attacks still hurt.

It’s also funny how you say conditions melt us when the warrior has the best immunity/clearing in the game apart from a necro himself. Try to think what a mesmer would do against those conditions? Jack kitten.

Do you play other classes? I have 6 characters and warrior is currently the easiest to play. You can literally combo people down if their stunbreak is gone. This while still having 2800+ armor, high health and high regen.

If we compare the warrior with what the so-called OP ele once did, the ele looks like a child. He had high healing and mobility, wow, a warrior has those too. He had decent damage, guess what? Warrior’s is higher AND he’s stunlocking you.

Besides, the argument that there’s stability is invalid. They only last a few seconds. In the meantime I’ll dodge/zerker stance/shield block and then go to town after your stability is gone and I baited a dodge or 2. There’s a reason everyone is playing warrior now. Now because they’re finally viable, but because they’re overviable.

And your video evidence is.. where?

Other classes have access to large amounts of conditions or high burst damage. The point is that Warriors can still be brought down, I showed that. If you watched the entire video you’d see that a Thief also landed a kill through high damage output.

Warriors can be killed reasonably well. I wouldn’t call them overpowered as it currently stands.

sorrow.2364:

Zanryu.3417:

You mean Cleansing Ire can actually be avoided?!
So Warriors can’t just auto win fights by spamming skills?!
You mean Warriors have to actually spam Burst skills to purify?!
You mean a Warrior would have to carefully choose his utilities to be effective?!

Long story short: Well there was no story. I said pretty much what I needed to say already.

No, no and no.

Cleansing Ire can’t be avoided on Longbow.
Warriors can win by just spamming burst skills, you didn’t spammed burst skill, just normal skills.
Yeah, you have to spam burst skills to cleanse. Too hard, huh?
Carefully pick… what? You just have to run the meta build, not throwing skills randomly in your bar. You failed even at that.

I didn’t know I had access to LB Burst 100% of the time.
I’ve never seen a Warrior win just from spamming Burst Skills, provide proof.
No, but interesting that it requires a certain degree of skill to cleanse yourself.
In other words.. certain skills have to be chosen to be efficient. Which was my point.

Have to double post. Character limit is as OP as Warriors man.

sorrow.2364:

There is a clear difference between being a bad to mediocre player and completely brainded.
You’re right, playing warrior doesn’t carry braindead players in PvP. Actually, there are some footages of warrior carrying braindead players in WvW tho.

The video is complely spoilt.
The OP did not trigger cleansing ire once in some fights.
The OP didn’t even try to kill minions, he just ate all the damage.
The OP is bad even at spamming burst skill on cooldown.
The OP is running with 3 banners for no apparent reason.

Long story short: the OP acted (I seriously hope that for him) completely brain-dead on purpose in order to prove a wrong point and, as far as I know, Warrior doesn’t carry brain-dead players, but only bad players.

You mean Cleansing Ire can actually be avoided?!
So Warriors can’t just auto win fights by spamming skills?!
You mean Warriors have to actually spam Burst skills to purify?!
You mean a Warrior would have to carefully choose his utilities to be effective?!

Long story short: Well there was no story. I said pretty much what I needed to say already.

whyme.3281:

This doesnt proof anything, because you cant play and what are the builds you used?

Myth1: Healing signed is OP, it is the strongest heal ingame, even troll unguent heals only 340 hps and needs to be activated. All your quotes say HS + AH+ CI is op, only the last quote doesnt say HS + AH + CI. Btw for such a bad skill, you survived impressively lond, how long would other classes need to be killed?

Myth2: Why do you place 4 banners? one is enough for a 100% regen uptime. Then you could use endure pain, or other skills.
In the second fight, you did nothing, only placed your banners and turned you back to the thief…

All I can say is learn to play….. you are the weakest warrior I have ever seen. I think it took you more skill to play bad on purpose than simply playing a warrior.

All you try to do is playing things down and only see every skill at its own. But you have to watch the whole warrior skillset. Its the whole synergie in every skill a warrior has (you totaly forgot endure pain) and that a warrior has nearly nothing to sacrifice if he plays one build or another.

Again, your video doesnt proof anything at all, only you are a bad player

E: in your other videos you can play a warrior and even kill people…. very interesting

So… first I hear just anyone can pick up a Warrior and win, now I’m hearing they have to actually know how and when to use their skills? Your side really needs to make up its mind for an argument. This is getting inconsistent.

Yasha.5963:

Unfortunately, your claims are totally anecdotal, there is nothing empirical in the way you presented your argument. In fact you present no proof or argument.

I don’t think warriors are totally OP-although they are much more forgiving now than they were before buffs, and in the hands of a great player are devastating, but what you have shown us is not empirical proof that warrior is OP or not OP. Its just one persons view of warrior fighting two builds- in the first case not applying the right pressure on the necro, and in the second case fighting a build that can actually consistently take on a warrior if played right (and being well outplayed in both cases).

Let me give you an example of what I mean. A while back, ele was nerfed fairly hard. It was seen by the community as very OP. And it was (certain builds anyway). At the time I tried to play this OP build, but I couldn’t do the OP stuff (they were practically unkillable with huge mobility and could also do decent damage). I just wasn’t good at it. If I had made a video of me failing at ele, it wouldn’t have proven ele’s were not OP. It would have just been embarrassing.

Many are claiming Warrior can be played with high levels of success with little skill. Even if my gameplay sucks the video is still a valid representation of how Warriors aren’t as broken as people believe.

Ezrael.6859:

Zanryu-3417 you are other clueless and writing falsehoods or doing it on purpose to try and make your argument stronger.

A Guardian with Hammer Mace Shield does NOT have a blind. He does NOT have a 3 hit block. He does NOT have 2 forms of invulnerability, where do you make this up?
Renewed Focus is a 2 second Invulnerability on a 90s cool down, Endure Pain is far better! Where is the magical extra 3 second invulnerability?

Sword 2 has a blind. Though admittedly, I was tired when posting and mixed Focus and Shield skills. The have two Blinds, a 3 hit Block, a Launch, and the ability to keep people out of a certain area. I was tried while posting but you seem to lack basic knowledge of the class. Renewed Focus grants 3 seconds of Invulnerability while Shelter provides a 2 second Block. That totals 5 seconds, along with restoring Virtues and giving a decent heal.

Jax.5261:

You didn’t read anything at all,
the reason you didn’t fail MUCH, MUCH harder is because you were a warrior. You effectively just stood still, I just…. wow…
You argument may as well be “guys warrior isn’t OP, I can’t win while afk” well no you can’t you have to press some buttons in the right order but most normal mistakes will be unpunished or the punishment is negligible.

You don’t have game sense to really be commenting on this.

It would seem you didn’t read much at all either, you still don’t state why you feel your viewpoint is valid. You don’t state why Warrior is actually overpowered, your post comes down to “u just stand der n die so u sux n warrior is still OP”. Tell me why the class is OP.

Even if I didn’t play that well, it should have been cushioned far more with how broken the mechanics of a Warrior supposedly are. However, as you saw, Healing Signet+Adrenal Health+Bersker Stance didn’t actually save me. The fight still ended in the Necromancer’s favor.

Which is kind of the point of this thread. To show that what people believe is overpowered and broken actually isn’t.

…Still waiting on that video evidence to the contrary.

Errant Venture.9371:

That’s the definition of an anecdote. You’re trying convince others to accept your opinion about warriors BASED ON YOUR OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE not based on QUANTIFIABLE, IMPARTIAL EVIDENCE.

zzz, trying to explain logical analysis to people on the internet.

You mean the same way people try to convince others Warrior is OP through word of mouth and their personal experience? You’re trying to shut down someone with a video of actual gameplay to back some of their points, but believe people going around stating Warrior is OP because of x, y, and z are fine? Even though they offer nothing but stories? Seems legit.

As it currently stands all evidence of the Warrior being OP is anecdotal at best, at least I have the decency to go and record actual gameplay. I’ve even got other videos of tournament play where you can see that I’m not carrying entire teams and facerolling the enemy due to my class alone.

You’re pretty much saying we should throw at all complaints about Warriors because it’s all anecdotal. The logic works both ways. You should probably try to argue without hurting your cause.

Jax.5261:

This is absolutely appallingly bad gameplay.
By face-roll people mean really easy to play, you can make a load of mistakes and not be punished, you can not really know what you’re doing and still win and you don’t have to pay much attention to the enemy to deal with them.

If you were any other class (or warrior before patch) you would’ve lasted ~20seconds.

• You waste EVERY SINGLE dodge roll
• You waste EVERY SINGLE defensive skill
• You have no idea how to keep damage up on your enemy
• You have no idea how to kite
• You don’t know what/how to dodge
• You don’t know combinations of attacks

That was an awful, awful video. I’m holding back so much more due to the forum rules but you are the one who posted it as ‘proof’.

The ONLY reason you survived nearly as long as you did was because the warrior is broken currently, not beyond fixing but enough to impact the game quite a lot. You literally showcased the opposite of what you were trying to do and embarrassed yourself in the process.

Awesome.

I’d say given my, what so many consider bad, gameplay I was punished severely. Even with how “overpowered” the class I was using is. You do pretty much nothing but say how bad I am and state the reasons people consider the Warrior OP, or rather why you believe they think it’s OP, but if it were truly a faceroll class should I not have done better? Even with my horrible gameplay? Shouldn’t I have been punished far less for mistiming dodges and not landing damaging hits or burst skills as much as I should have?

To everyone else posting: Feel free to post videos of how Warriors are OP. I’m sure others would love to seem them, the same way I would.

Neare.9703:

Zanryu, Regen doesn’t stack in effectiveness, only length of time it is applied. So 1 banner has the exact same effect as 4. I don’t know where you got your build from, but it’s not the banner build most people are playing and as you seem unaware of what the current FOTM is I would suggest not trying to defend a spec that you don’t play yourself.

As someone who does play a banner regen warrior let me explain how it works and why it actually is OP. The general spec is playing 1 banner (usually tactics) with zerker and balanced stance. People will always need 30pts in tactics to get the regen trait. Furthermore at least 20pts in defense to get cleansing ire. Beyond that the rest of the points get mixed around depending on if you’re playing CC or condi. Everyone always uses longbow as it does NOT need to register a hit to activate cleansing ire. The other weapon/s is personal preference depending on the type of role you want to play.

Regen wise for what I play I receive 436+260 HP every second. Plus a further 507 HP every 3 seconds from Adrenal Health. It is basically a permanent TU however I have higher base armor, toughness and HP.
I have access to a total of 33 seconds of stability, with balanced stance on a 40sec cooldown. Permanent swiftness, might stacking up to around 12 stacks with ease. And 10secs immunity to conditions every 60 seconds. I can remove 3 conditions every 10 or so seconds and have a full condition clear on the elite.

I generally play condi spec, between burning and bleeding I can easily manage 1500 condi damage per second + whatever extra direct damage I am doing from 2500 attack.

I roll over everything and it shouldn’t be the way in a pvp game and 1 class is immune to anything another class may bring, warrior is most definitely OP. Everyone should die 1v4 obviously, even warriors. But at the moment I can 1v2 easy, which indicates that Warrior is near twice as good as other classes which is saying a lot about current balance.

It was a build I saw on a video and was told, the only other time I’ve seen it played was against a Warrior running Stomp, Banner of Defense, Signet of Rage, and I don’t recall the other utility the had, likely Endure Pain or Berserker Stance. Even so, that build still lacks either stability or condition resistance so the point stands, though to a lesser degree.

I could very well try a proper build, though I don’t imagine the results will be too different honestly. Yes, I’d get access to more utilities, but the problems will still be there. It’ll still be vulnerable to conditions and burst. The HP sounds like a lot on paper, and it’s hard for another non-DPS build to eat through, but once you start wailing on it with high damage output or a stream of conditions it becomes much less of a threat.

Warrior isn’t the only thing that can 1v2, I’ve seen other classes handle that effectively as well. Because you can do something with one class doesn’t make it automatically better than all others. Warriors are far from being able to sit there and steamroll an entire fight by themselves. Depending on the build they’ll have high DPS or bunker well enough, but I haven’t seen them dominate any fight to the degree people have been complaining about. Immune is a very large overstatement.

Errant Venture.9371:

I don’t think you understand what an anecdote or anecdotal evidence are. Look up the difference between Anecdotal and Empirical evidence.

Not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.

I’m not giving you a story based on my personal account, I’m showing you a video of a Warrior in action. That’s not anecdotal. What most people say about Warriors? That’s anecdotal. They offer no proof nor argument as to why what they say is true, all you here is “Warrior is OP. Signet is OP. Warrior does it all. Please nerf. Warrior’s OP”.

THAT is anecdotal.

Ashanor.5319:

Lighter.5631:

ahuba.6430:

Lighter.5631:

And yea, i’ve been argued all over these days. thing is warrior is good in pvp. but not OP.

in wvw? heck no. i usally don’t argue over it because i dont play wvw or atleast not on my warrior, then i made a meta build warrior in wvw. what is this a joke? 1st it does not do that much high of a damage, it never did.
2nd it’s dead when you see more then 3 people that are fully geared 80. as on my thief i can disengage OR even better i can bring one down before leaving.
cleansing ire simply doesn’t clean enough condi with all the condi meta, and zerker stance can easily be kit off in this huge open world, when in pvp, its more difficult.
and when you encounter a zerg, you are dead as well, on my thief i can easily leave without anyone touching me.
even the GS build is better then the meta pvp build of pvp, simply being the fact that it was the best build when warriors were free kills, when warriors needed to quick engage and disengage.
what a waste of gil and laurels for getting them lyssa and sigils and ascended for nothing.

why the kitten are you talking about wvw

Because over 70% of the kitten complaining about warrior OP every day IN PVP FORUMS are kitten wvwers who has nothing to do with pvp or do only a little bit, if you actually read the forum. not like they have any big accomplishment in wvw either

Pretty much true. Most of the complainers aren’t from sPvP, but they come post their complaints on the sPvP forums. It’s pretty ridiculous to be honest.

Majority of the complaints I’ve seen stem from sPvP.

Let’s try to stay on topic people, and with that said try to keep the whining to a minimum. I’d like constructive posts, not “lulz u sux but wr class still op”.

Let’s face it, if they were really THAT broken it wouldn’t matter if I sucked, I should have still pulled off that victory.

ahuba.6430:

why the kitten are you talking about wvw

OP is a blanket statement, I imagine it can cover both types of PvP. It isn’t complained about nearly as much, but I imagine some people feel this way. Though to be fair, this is Structured PvP and now WvW so.. I supposed you have a point.

Hey guy he quoted, why are you talking about WvW? This is the Structered PvP forum, which is where the main complaints about Warriors come from. If you’d like to discuss the WvW side of things you should make a thread in that sub-forum.

“The Warrior has NO burst heal, no way to restore 10k or so HP in one go”

I suppose I should clarify before I get jumped on, I’m referring to the adrenaline based heal which grants a 10k Heal at full adrenaline.

Darn. A double post. Oh well.

Elfindale.4836:

No,no no, its not how you compare classes, u play a class, u look at the combined strength of the whole tool kit u r getting by playing it, therefore u don’t look at a single skill of a class and compare them, that means u don’t say things like “here is all the class i have, and there is all urs, u have show X number of more invulnerability then i do”
we all agree warrior are overpowered at solo level, this is word of mouth, and u can not deny it, in this game, healing over time at a second by second level is overpowered, i am talking about the healing signet, u don’t see a comparable healing skill on any other classes, its overpowered because it does not require timing, it does not require casting, and the amount it heal with every pulse is very significant combined with warrior’s mobility and CC capability, unless stability and stun breaker are offered to very class on a 5 second bases, we don’t see a way of stoping warrior healing them self while doing tons of cc and damage to u.

So.. if Warriors are so overpowered and if Healing Signet is so great, why is it that even with it I wasn’t able to faceroll the person I fought?

Also, I already stated this.. I don’t know why I keep having to do it, Healing Signet is weak to burst and conditions. Even bleeds will help diminish its effectiveness. The Warrior has NO burst heal, no way to restore 10k or so HP in one go. Once the Warrior eats the burst he has to stall to heal or disengage, otherwise he’ll die from sustained damage.

Well darn, gonna be a double post. Oh well.

Oblivion.8307:

‘Banner regen build’ using 4 banners, wtf are you, kittened? Blind stops cleansing ire? that’s why you take a longbow. Holy kitten people in this game are kittened. Especially people that don’t understand the concept of disengaging, line of sighting etc. ‘Let me take a free 12k damage while i summon my banners cos i got no stunbreaks etc.’ Plus most warriors use signet with lyssa runes. This guy. Holy kitten. This guy.

Inc another infraction for me.

I slotted my Elite to Signet of Rage later on. I copy/pasted that banner build. The lack of stunbreaks is one of the points I was trying to make, along with the inability to reliably cleanse conditions. Lyssa runes only work once every 48 seconds if using Signet of Rage and traited for the Signet cooldown reduction. It’s not very often a team fight or any fight over 1v1 will last that long. I understand the concept of disengaging perfectly fine, I don’t sit around and try to take hits when in a tournament match. Come to think of it, in the context you mentioned Lyssa runes it almost sounds as if you expect me to Signet out of a stun. Signet of Rage isn’t a stunbreaker.

So let me get this straight.. Warriors ALWAYS have access to Bow burst with 3 bars of Adrenaline? Without 3 bars Bow Burst is unlikely to hit what you’d want it to hit due to the radius of the skill being so small. Not saying it’s impossible, but with a moving target it’ll be difficult and honestly without 3 bars you wouldn’t be getting that super duper ultra mega cleanse from Cleansing Ire now would you?

In any case, you haven’t really said anything useful.

Vargamonth.2047:

Guardians are prefered as mid (or any point where teafights are likely to happen) bunkers because of their support.
On their own, they aren’t more tanky than what a warrior (and some other classes) can be and they can’t apply real counterpressure. That’s why you rarely see Guardians holding close point (or any point where the fight is small scaled or the defender is on its own) in any serious match.

Guardian heal is not invulnerability btw. A warrior slots “Fear me” and guardian is either forced to use SYG for healing or pretty much done.

And a Necro or Engi can have good defenses and retaliate with strong conditions. I’ve seen quite a few of both stick on a point by themselves with pretty decent degrees of success. I admit I can’t speak for the higher ranks of tPvP but I don’t imagine a Warrior is so much better than either of those at applying counter-pressure with holding something other than mid in the same way it’s not better than a Guardian at holding mid.

CMF.5461:

Zanryu.3417:

Come to think of it you haven’t really stated why they’re OP, you just went off on this little talk about Guardians.

The warrior has the highest health pool along with arguably the best passive regeneration in the game, without having to invest heavily into healing power or gimping the other stats.

Zanryu.3417:

The thing about a Guardian is it’s far bunkier than a Warrior. It has superior defenses, access to multiple blinds, and good condition removal. It can outlast even a regen banner Warrior. If anything that should show how Warriors aren’t as OP as everyone thinks. They’ve got good skills and builds to be sure, but anything they can do outside of stun and temporary condition immunity others can do better. Condition damage? Necro or Engineer. Direct damage? Mesmer or Theif. Bunker? Guardian.

As for the guardian having superior defense versus a warrior, The classic bunker guard will probably be using staff and mace (no blinds), there are others that might have scepter, or even hammer for a weapon swap for terms of control (no blinds).

Condition removal “is” one of the strong points of guardians, so there isn’t a lot of argument there. I would say current state of condition removal versus current affairs of condition application need to be balanced more, but there isn’t a warrior is OP topic, so won’t go into that too much.

Everyone says warrior do not have the damage mitigation that guardians do, and that is why they are not bunkers yet. Warriors have good access to blocks (maybe more than guards), good access to weakness (guards have protection), and good access to stuns (guards do not have a comparable mechanic to this in frequent use as stuns).

The one thing a guardian excels at over the warrior is group support for team fights. I think that is what keeps guardians on top over warrior for the role of bunkering.

Sword and Focus both have blinds, and can be used with an alternate weapon set. This isn’t about Guardians though.

Warriors have access to a 1 second Block, a 3 second Block with Mace/Shield and a 1 second Block with Off-hand Sword which a bunker Warrior wouldn’t use anyway. That grants a 3 second stun along with a 2 second stun, knock back, and knock down with Hammer. None of our heals give is invulnerability, nor do our elites.

Guardians get (assuming Hammer+Mace/Shield) 1 blind, a block to absorb 3 attacks, passive Aegis and Regeneration, as well as being able to activate those, a 2 second and 3 second Invulnerability (one of which refreshes Virtues), a Knockback, a Launch, a skill to prevent enemies from entering a certain area, and passive condition removal.

Between all that the Warrior is far outclasses in terms of defensive ability, even with stuns. Stability isn’t going to stop that Gaurdian from blocking you whereas the Warrior’s offensive and defensive power are largely reinforced by the ability to stun.

Also, we’ve been over this, Healing Signet can be eaten through very quickly and removes the ability to burst heal without making it useless. That’s its downside. When using Healing Signet the Warrior can’t heal off large amounts of damage in one go, he has to rely on passive healing making him extremely vulnerable to burst damage.

CMF.5461:

Zanryu.3417:

CMF.5461:

……at one point your friend says

“it’s like fighting a giant HP pool”

and you respond with

“Yeah, pretty worthless if you can’t kill anything”

…………..you just described a guardian though…………so is it worthless?

Oh and you stand in practically everything and ask to die.

Guardians don’t have a giant HP pool. They have the lowest HP in the game, tied with Elementalists. Also, I’m pretty sure they’re known as a bunker class for the most part. You have DPS variants but usually people run them as bunkers. People complain that Warriors sacrifice very little in order to be effective at both killing and sustaining, and as you can see that’s not too true. They’re still able to be beaten.

Guardian’s have the lowest in the game, but are supposed to excel in defense and staying alive. While they are focused on “bunkering” they do little to no damage at all.

Thus the guardian’s job is to have a “huge hp pool” through healing, blocking, avoidance.

When is the last time you were afraid of a bunker guardian killing you? Unless you were smart enough to die to retaliation.

To be fair I’m not afraid of anything other than a Theif, Mesmer, Engineer, or Necromancer killing me in a 1v1 situation. You know. Stuff that’s meant to kill. I haven’t met a Warrior yet I was actually scared of enough that I’d need to run away or go off point using the Hambo build.

The thing about a Guardian is it’s far bunkier than a Warrior. It has superior defenses, access to multiple blinds, and good condition removal. It can outlast even a regen banner Warrior. If anything that should show how Warriors aren’t as OP as everyone thinks. They’ve got good skills and builds to be sure, but anything they can do outside of stun and temporary condition immunity others can do better. Condition damage? Necro or Engineer. Direct damage? Mesmer or Theif. Bunker? Guardian.

Come to think of it you haven’t really stated why they’re OP, you just went off on this little talk about Guardians.

ahuba.6430:

lol yeah, one video of a bad warrior will certainly prove all your points.

Yeah, one insulting comment with no counter-argument to the points made will certainly disprove all my points.

vinceftw.5086:

So you’re trying to proof your point by using the 2nd (or 1st) strongest class in the game, the necromancer. If a warrior can’t cleanse conditions enough, think about what others can do? Nothing.

Oh boy. Someone seems to be missing the point.

What you seem to be saying is “I think Class A is overpowered. If someone using Class B can beat someone using Class A, Class B is even more overpowered and all other classes stand no chance.” How is that constructive? How is that at all helpful? The people who think Warriors are overpowered seem to be unable to form proper arguments to support their point.

So let me say this. Before you post here, think. Don’t just type away on your keyboard and tell me Warriors are OP or that I suck. I want you to THINK. Think about your reply, tell me WHY we’re OP. Give a good argument to support your claim. Otherwise I’m not going to take anything you post seriously.

Let’s not have this be a bunch of Warrior haters circlejerking each other with no real counter-arguments.

CMF.5461:

……at one point your friend says

“it’s like fighting a giant HP pool”

and you respond with

“Yeah, pretty worthless if you can’t kill anything”

…………..you just described a guardian though…………so is it worthless?

Oh and you stand in practically everything and ask to die.

Guardians don’t have a giant HP pool. They have the lowest HP in the game, tied with Elementalists. Also, I’m pretty sure they’re known as a bunker class for the most part. You have DPS variants but usually people run them as bunkers. People complain that Warriors sacrifice very little in order to be effective at both killing and sustaining, and as you can see that’s not too true. They’re still able to be beaten.

Errant Venture.9371:

I see a bad warrior losing to an AI pet necro. Anecdotes don’t mean anything.

Do you not understand the meaning of the word anecdotal? This is not anecdotal evidence, you aren’t relying on word of mouth here. This is a recording of a fight that you can actually see for yourself.

Whether or not I’m bad isn’t even relevant for the most part, as I recall quite a few people saying Warrior is a faceroll class. You can pick it up and use it to great degrees of success. So even if I am bad this still shows that Warriors can be defeated even with Berserker Stance, Cleansing Ire, and Healing Signet+Adrenal Health. Not that I personally like to run Healing Signet anyway.

Hello everyone, there have been many complaints about the Warrior class. How Healing Signet + Adrenal Health provide too much healing, how Cleansing Ire is too good at removing conditions, how Banner Regen Warriors are virtually unkillable, and I’m here to put a stop to this nonsense.

Warriors can die. Here’s the proof. Show me those Warriors that are carrying teams by themselves and winning 4v1s on video. Or really anything that shows how OP they are, rather than theorycrafting and telling stories about what happened. Sure, stories can give us some idea of what’s going on, but we don’t know the exact situations.

In other words… watch this video.

ITT: Misinformation and people who can’t adapt.

evilapprentice.6379:

I’ll just run my 30/30/30/30/30 spec with access to great burst, poison, and enough damaging conditions to overpower both berserks and cleansing ire. Fantastic advice, I don’t know how I possibly didn’t think of it first.

Wow, look at all the logic and well thought out points in your statement. Gee wiz, I can’t argue with that!

evilapprentice.6379:

Oh man, moving out of a 240 radius with 600 range, why didn’t I think of that? Obvious its possible for my melee spec to do so in .75s. all my stunbreakers are on a 10s cooldown as well. I’ve been such a fool. Whats the CD on a dodged Burst skill that costs 0 adrenaline again?

You do realize melee isn’t the only style of combat, right? You can’t reduce the effectiveness of something with part of your reasoning being “I can’t dodge it if I’m in melee range”. Many melee users carry a range weapon depending on their build (Hammer/Longbow build anyone?) and aren’t required to stand in range of the attack to hit. The option of dodgerolling is still available in melee range, as well as applying blinds or moving away.

Let me give you some advice when you dodge a burst. Either run away if you feel you’ve exhausted too many resources to be effective, or go all out and burst your target down. This is the second paragraph of your post and you have yet to offer any decent counter-argument.

evilapprentice.6379:

Again you’re right – I’ll use my infinite endurance and 10s stunbreaks to ensure I don’t ever get hit with a burst skill. You can even dodge combustion shot!

More sarcasm that does nothing to help your case. We’re at the third point and you’re still resorting to sarcasm, which would be fine if you actually had some kind of argument. Sarcasm by itself shows you’ve got nothing significant to add to the discussion and should really just step away.

evilapprentice.6379:

Again, countered handily with my 30/30/30/30/30 spec.

Read the above comment about sarcasm.

evilapprentice.6379:

Oh of course, I just have to bring multiple people to fight 1 non-bunker – how silly of me.

Okay, I’ll bite. Warriors can be brought down 1v1, especially by people using DPS builds and especially if the Warrior in question is using one himself. If the Warrior is traited to bunk, then guess what. He’s classified as a bunker and as much as you’d like to complain about a bunker being hard to take down 1v1 and how overpowered it is you need to realize, that’s kind of the point. Bunkers are supposed to be hard to bring down. Oh, and Warriors aren’t the only class that can bunker.

evilapprentice.6379:

Yes, warriors running soldiers amulets and using unsuspecting foe to boost their damage are very weak to burst damage, with their high armor and highest base HP in the game.

Unsuspecting Foe only works against enemies that are stunned, with a Hambow build that Warrior has only one 2 second stun. With a full support Mace+Shield/Hammer build they have 3 stuns, one 1, one 2, and one 3 second one (or more depending on sigils). With a Mace+Shield/Greatsword build they have two stuns. The 1 second stun is nearly inconsequential, as it lasts too little of time to take advantage of Unsuspecting Foe. It’s more for gap closing and keeping the opponent close to stunlock them.

There are stunbreaks, Stability, and utility skills that can grant stealth, invulnerability, block, and all manner of ways to counter the damage done by certain Warrior builds. You’re forgetting to mention that not every build will have Unsuspecting Foe. Also, do I really have to cover Healing Signet’s weakness again?

evilapprentice.6379:

I’m surprised you can see anything at all with the blinders you’re wearing.

Oooh, that one stung. Sick burn man, sick burn. Gonna have to get some Aloe for that one.

evilapprentice.6379:

When I point out their condition immunity and cleansing, you suggest burst. When I point out their high hp, armor, HPS, and multiple way to buy time with stuns, blocks, and psuedo immunes, you point out how they’re not immune to conditions.

So I get it – run 30/30/30/30/30 with my amulet that gives me + 798 to every stat and I’ll be fine.

Quite a few classes have access to conditions along with direct damage. Mesmers can apply confusion and bleeds, Thieves can apply poison and bleeds, Guardians can apply burns and blind, Necros can use hybrid builds with both damage and conditions. A Warrior’s ability to mitigate both types of damage comes at the cost of two utility slots and having to use skills with long cooldowns that do nothing to help their damage output.

I found myself in quite a few tournaments today in which I was paired with level 1-5s, and while that’s fine in hotjoin, it doesn’t seem appropriate to be paired with people who have virtually no experience in tPvP.

Being paired up with people who have little experience and will likely hinder your team as a whole is a frustrating experience in solo or sometimes even team queue, if you go in with under 5 people.

I think a good idea would be to restrict Tournaments to rank 10 and above so as to avoid newer people from participating until they have more experience. It’s great to learn PvP and good that people are interested, but tournament is meant to be at least somewhat competitive. I’m not some elitist wanting to keep people who’ve never PvPed from doing it, but there should be some form of segregation between regular and tourmament PvP.

I’d suggest better team balancing as well, but that’s obvious.

Loco.4561:

Zanryu.3417:

I don’t have time to read through the rest of this thread, but I have read the first page. I’m going to sum this up with a statement I got from a thief when discussing the current state of stealth.

“It’s in the game, so it’s not broken. That’s how it’s supposed to be.”

Nobody ever seems to give a legitimate argument and when met with a counter argument they get raged at or told Warrior are OP without any actual math or experience to back it up. I’ve had this happen to me personally, and while it’s laughable, it shows how pitiful some people can truly be when it comes to the game.

If you think Warriors are overpowered give a good example of how they’re broken. If you can’t do that, kindly save your crying for the next fotm class/build.

Since you haven’t bothered to read through the thread how do you know that counter arguments and math have not been discussed? You have just jumped in and said “I read the first page and jumped to the conclusion everyone is an idiot”

Show’s how pitiful the forums are when people base entire opinions on the first page of a thread…see what I did there?

Interesting, rather than address the arguments and counter-arguments I’ve made, you choose to stick to one irrelevant fact. I just read through the thread and I saw no actual legitimate arguments, save for the math done on Healing Signet+Adrenal Health. Though that’s more of a tidbit of information rather than an actual argument.

So far this thread has had mostly childish posters, much like yourself, posting nonsense and going in circles. Circles that benefit neither side.

With people like you, I guess I’d have to agree. The forums are pitiful. See what I did there?

evilapprentice.6379:

You’ve literally just described every class – blind makes them miss, they run out stunbreakers. Explaining the basic mechanics of the game is not a defense.

Dodge, block, invulnerability, blind, and even moving around are all defensive abilities that can help reduce or avoid damage and are game mechanics. Blind prevents you from being hit, burst skills require contact to utilize Cleansing Ire, meaning blind can effectively prevent that from happening for one round of burst. It takes timing and prediction or just plain luck, but it certainly helps. Dodging or blocking a skill will let you avoid the effects and damage of that skill making them helpful as well.

evilapprentice.6379:

How you feel doesn’t matter – like you said, I want reasons. Explain to me while you feel it isn’t overpowered? My position is that the combination of HS + AH + CI facilitates too much for warriors. HS’s only weakness is poison, since you can’t interrupt it, and CI makes it hard to get poison to stick, unless you have constant access to it on a weaponset that does solid direct damage to keep the pressure up. It helps if that weapon is also ranged, since trying to melee a hammer warrior who can keep hitting Earthshaker every few seconds until it connects (among other reasons why you don’t want to melee them) is a nightmare to deal with.

If how I feel doesn’t matter then neither does how anyone else feels on either side of the subject. I don’t believe the combination of those skills to be as overpowered as you seem to think. Healing Signet and Adrenal Health are great together but HS is weak to burst and poison. Any damaging condition will help to keep the pressure up, Torment and Bleed can help eat through the heals as you’re dealing damage to the Warrior. He either has to tank it out or use HS which takes away the passive heal making him easier to deal with. It may be hard to stack a specific condition but the Warrior has no control over which conditions are cleansed.

A great way to get around Earthshaker is movement. If you move around it becomes difficult to hit you as it’s a ground target skill. That, with blind and dodgeroll can allow a skilled player to dodge it often enough. Stunbreaks can also be slotted to get out of the stun, should it land.

evilapprentice.6379:

Cleansing Ire, Berserkers stance. Every CC and every block translates into more healing time. HS also takes away the ability to interrupt your heal, and is the least effected by poison (except heals that specifically remove poison before the healing) because of the HoT aspect of it.

Cleansing Ire only works if it connects and Berserkers Stance doesn’t affect conditions already on you along with having a long cooldown. Once it wears off it’s unlikely it’ll be off cooldown until another fight. Constant damage and conditions all help to eat through HS. Something with high burst will have significant impact against the Warrior. Even with the HoT aspect Poison is still effective at reducing the healing it grants, even if temporarily. At the very least you can force a burst skill prematurely if the Warrior needs to cleanse conditions.

evilapprentice.6379:

4-5 seconds of no damage = 1600-2000 healing + whatever AH healed. 8-10 seconds of immunity to conditions is 8-10 seconds of uncounterable full HPS from HS and AH, and no way to peel/reduce the warriors effectiveness with snares/debuffs. Berserkers stance doesn’t need to affect conditions already applied, you’ve got Cleansing Ire for that.

That 4-5 seconds isn’t immunity to CC or conditions. Once Endure Pain ends it can’t be used for a very long time and 2k HP is not a large amount at all. It’s decent, but 2k HP in a multi person fight goes away pretty quickly once utilities are used up. Immunity to conditions is not immunity to damage, remember how Warriors are weak to burst damage? You can still capitalize on that. Just because conditions are useless for a period of time doesn’t mean you can’t negate HS+AH heals. Cleansing Ire will only cleanse 3 conditions max. If you hit a target.

evilapprentice.6379:

I’m not complaining they’re unkillable. They just have far too much sustain without having to put a single point into healing power. Sustain is fine…when you spec properly for it.

I disagree. You don’t really offer any argument here, so I see no need to offer a counter-argument. You know, since you can’t really counter something that isn’t there.

evilapprentice.6379:

As you should of before you expressed an opinion that was clearly contradicted by the posts you didn’t bother to read.

I still haven’t gotten around to reading them. I got sidetracked by sPvP. I’ll give them a read now. I should hope they do a better job than you of contradicting my statements.

evilapprentice.6379:

Zanryu.3417:

I don’t have time to read through the rest of this thread, but I have read the first page. I’m going to sum this up with a statement I got from a thief when discussing the current state of stealth.

“It’s in the game, so it’s not broken. That’s how it’s supposed to be.”

Nobody ever seems to give a legitimate argument and when met with a counter argument they get raged at or told Warrior are OP without any actual math or experience to back it up. I’ve had this happen to me personally, and while it’s laughable, it shows how pitiful some people can truly be when it comes to the game.

If you think Warriors are overpowered give a good example of how they’re broken. If you can’t do that, kindly save your crying for the next fotm class/build.

How would you know if anyone made any good arguments when you didn’t read more than 50% of the responses?

Also, I’ve NEVER seen anyone claim that stealth is fine “because it’s in the game” (you might notice my name on ALOT of posts there as well, so it’s not like I’m never over in that section). The argument usually goes “There’s lots of counters to stealth – here I will list them for you”. Further advice is to roll a thief and find the weaknesses in the spec that’s giving you so much trouble.

You’ve contributed nothing to the discussion, specifically because you felt the need to respond without actually reading through it.

People have pointed out the hard numbers on HS and AH. They’ve pointed out how hard it is to get poison to stick on a class that drops 2-3 conditions every 7-10 seconds just by using their burst skills they’d be using anyway. They’ve pointed out the insane sustain 20 in defense and HS gives a warrior – but how would you know? You didn’t bother to read through the thread.

It should have been implied that I would go through and read the rest when time allowed. I was queued up for a tournament while reading the first page so I knew it would be unlikely I could finish.

I’ve seen it. I’ve seen many horrible arguments for different classes, builds, and mechanics and people crying out for a Warrior nerf are no different. The burst skills can be dodged and are affected by blind. The Warrior can’t use them while stunned, so once stunbreaks and Stability are gone your team can proceed to stun the Warrior or immobilize him. I’ll grant you that skills can be used during immobilize, but anything but longrange skills become very limited making immobilize a very effective method of keeping a Warrior in check.

Honestly the sustain obtained from putting points into Defense is nice, but I have to assume you’re referring to the Cleansing Ire trait and the adrenaline based heal, as you specifically mentioned 20 points. If that’s not the case, then please tell me what is. Every class has access to toughness traits, though the secondary boost to stats varies. In any case, while Warrior get a fair amount of sustain from that tree, I wouldn’t say it’s overpowered. People have issues with Healing Signet and Adrenal Health, along with the condition removal from Cleansing Ire. So far that seems to be the main complaint, but those skills are far from unbeatable.

Blind, Stun, Immobilize, Poison, and burst damage are all ways of getting through a Warriors defenses. Assuming the Warrior is using Healing Signet for the passive he effectively has no burst heal, unless he wants to waste the super duper amazing passive heal everyone hates. Poison alone will mess with that, if the warrior uses a Burst skill you can go in for another Condition which will eat up his heals. If you’re a burst class, unleash hell on them. If they pop Endure Pain wait 4-5 seconds while dodging or applying CC effects and get back to applying damage. Healing Signet effectively takes away the ability to burst heal, making burst damage and condition damage both highly effective so long as the Warrior can’t get out of it.

A Warrior 4-5 seconds of no damage, 8-10 seconds of no conditions, and 8-10 seconds of Stability. This is without taking the trait that activates Balanced Stance or Endure Pain under certain conditions. Stability only lasts so long and can be corrupted. Endure Pain only lasts up to 5 seconds and conditions can still be applied. Berserker Stance only lasts up to 10 seconds, does not reduce direct damage taken, and does not affect conditions already applied.

Warriors have access to good stun abilities and a fair ability to survive, but I wouldn’t call them overpowered. They can be countered. They aren’t these unkillable monstrosities that just do not die.

I will now read the rest of the thread. Some people man, some people.. Tisk tisk.

I don’t have time to read through the rest of this thread, but I have read the first page. I’m going to sum this up with a statement I got from a thief when discussing the current state of stealth.

“It’s in the game, so it’s not broken. That’s how it’s supposed to be.”

Nobody ever seems to give a legitimate argument and when met with a counter argument they get raged at or told Warrior are OP without any actual math or experience to back it up. I’ve had this happen to me personally, and while it’s laughable, it shows how pitiful some people can truly be when it comes to the game.

If you think Warriors are overpowered give a good example of how they’re broken. If you can’t do that, kindly save your crying for the next fotm class/build.

Shpongle.6025:

move to blackgate, all 3 were easymode for us, we just pew pew’d them

we even had the candy corn legendary spawn in front of us, and when he was at 40% the skele lick spawned behind us LOL we pwned both simultaneously

Sea of Sorrows disposed of all three bosses easily as well, it isn’t exclusive to just Blackgate.

Oh, and perhaps you should learn to pay more attention. The Skeletal Lich and Grand High Viscount of Candy Corn spawn on opposite sides of the map and don’t move on their own. I very much doubt you move the Lich that far. The creature you’re thinking of is the Labyrinthine Terror, perhaps you should stick to the zerg in WvW before you try to give PvE criticism.

On a side note, we defeated both simultaneously on multiple occasions.

Givin’ this thing a bump.