Guild Wars 2

To OP: Because the combat system has no basis for organization or roles. It’s designed to be a zerg that can be taken on by anyone passing by.

Meaning no special abilities, no punishing mechanics… just zerg for all the DPS classes (read: all the classes.)

Just bad combat design, that’s why bosses are lame.

Raine.1394:

Narkosys.5173:

The date on that article is from May so it isnt valid or holds water anymore. Anything pre Nov 15 doesnt matter and has been proven to be a miscommunication or wrong interpretation or whatever they choose to call it this week.

As for legendaries make them worth getting for all professions. Right now that isnt the case some are significantly better than others in my view.

But what they do have going form them is the raise in stats on release of new equipment. So they are future grind proof no matter how hard the new stuff is to obtain. And I do expect it to be one huge grindfest. In perpetuity so that is a major advantage far beyond looks.

This is really the only thing legendary about the legendary post Nov 15—it’s grind insurance for the weapon slot. Do that grind once and it’s the last grind you do for your weapon.

Which renders weapon switching useless, as who’s going to not use the weapon they just spent hundreds of hours grinding one out.

JaironKalach.4938:

I would assume that this is what LinseyMurdock is mentioning she is working on at this post.

A scavenger hunt? That’s not exactly the type of deep lore exploration or storyline we’re talking about.

Blizzard was excellent at doing this for their Legendary weapons.

The best assessment of the Legendary grind that masquerades as “content” – it’s an abomination to the genre and to the lore of this world. They could have done so much more.

Would having more gold help?

cesmode.4257:

Im curious what all of the pro-raid folks thought the end game would be when they purchased GW2. Or did you think you could eventually influence Arenanet to cater to your needs(the progression-style endgame that most of the MMO community likes)?

Whether or not arenanet always had plans to put in ascended gear(which they did), theres your progression via fractals. This already PO’d so many people. Isnt this enough for you guys?

Point 1: There is no way that I believed ArenaNet wouldn’t have some type of content for guilds, in the form of at least large-scale instances. Or progression. It’s like we’re living in an alternate reality – “COME PLAY GUILD WARS WHERE YOU WILL NEVER SEE YOUR GUILD!”

Point 2: See point 1. 5 people aren’t a guild. They’re on the right track with fractals but they need a) more progression and b) larger numbers (minimum of 10 players, preferably 20 or above.)

Nuka Cola.8520:

Never tried those raids but gw1 had over twice the amount of players for many dungeon so sup!? I want a 10 man dungeon and not in 2 years.

This. AT LEAST this.

CaptainCanada.5374:

There are still many things that they are building and implementing into the game so it will be more fun.

Try going to a keg brawl. Look around and you’ll see there are many other things yet to come.

Just have some patience.

But… we already paid for the game. We’re supposed to wait for it to be finished now?

stjf.7180:

I think you miss the point really. You mention farming; what is the eventual aim of any farming? It is almost always for the attainment of something exclusive, for instance exotic armors. The narrow pursuit of exclusive items is not what GW is about, its about enjoying your journey through the world and through that journeying you are rewarded loot that allows you to progress with equipment that will stand you in good stead for the next areas. There is no need to farm, and introducing farming would be undoing much of what makes GW special to many people.

“The narrow pursuit of exclusive items is not what GW2 is about”?

Hello? Did you really say that? That is the ONLY thing GW2 is about… Legendaries, other skins, etc.

And there is PLENTY of farming to do within those pursuits, and ArenaNet is controlling them artificially… conveniently you can turn to the cash shop.

If not that, then what?

Taste is a very personal thing. There are some people that like having sex with a plastic bag over their head, but that in no way means it’s the best or most popular way to do it.

stjf.7180:

Erasculio.2914:

Mirta.5029:

question: how can a game be addictive, but not fun?

GW2 is, in the end, the victory of humanity over donkeys. Too bad some people want donkeys to win.

I think that sums up my feelings on GW2 pretty well. The moaning about not being able to farm or the lack of certain features that may have been expected to be shipped across from other MMORPGs depresses me more than anything.

Guild Wars is special because it is not other games, it is the humanity winning over the donkeys. For me, Guild Wars is all about the journey. There’s great moments on the journey, just as Fatfox says.

This misses the point entirely. We’re not trying to turn it into other games, but rather communicate what features we found fun and that made sense in virtual game worlds.

Farming for example… as long as there were critters alive that dropped something you needed, you could optionally farm them to your hearts content. Here, in GW2, there’s an artificial DR mechanism that stops you from doing that.

That’s not for the good of the players; that’s for the good of the cash shop.

It’s those kinds of things that they have no business doing in an MMO that is supposed to represent and open persistent world. Just one example.

Sylv.5324:

The day that ANet goes back on its word and introduces instanced content that requires a large group to complete, is the day my monies stop flowing to the CS and I won’t purchase more expansions.

Please, ANet, no raids. I agree with the reasons y’all put forth in the manifesto.

Not sure what you have against it.

If they provided instanced versions of outdoor world bosses, tuned to be more difficult and for a specific number of people, what does it matter? You still get what you want in the open-world zerg, and the team, progression-minded guilds get what they want as well.

Seems like a win-win.

You didn’t hang out on the pre-release SW:TOR forums beating the same drum by chance, did you?

Krosslite.1950:

This game has open raids which folks refuse to even attempt to figure out. There are 1500+ DEs which are open world raids.

Have you made any attempt to solve these? Especially in Orr?

Here’s the strat for every open world event in this game:

1) Show up
2) Die
3) Zerg
4) Loot

In other words, open world events cannot contain the mechanics, strategy, detail or challenge that a large-scale guild-focused encounter can, where communication and coordination can be expected and required.

Mystic Beaver.4795:

Really unnecessary to have such a massive, massive wall of text.

I play on Crystal Desert too and there’s loads of people everywhere, always people for events in every zone, lots of people in WvW. Maybe you’re just logging on at too bizarre times ?

Sounds quite like you’re trying to convince yourself. The game world is empty… there needs to be something done.

Many agree with you, including myself. There absolutely needs to be large-scale group organized PvE content in the game. Otherwise it’s an amazing game-world and lore gone to waste.

Bastion.2457:

Zeldain.5710:

BiJay.9830:

Aren’t most MMORPGs soloable outside of dungeons/instances? Or did I just play the wrong ones?

There is no group content, that’s the problem.

Other than everything in the game designed around dynamic group play, instances, fractals and group events, nope, the game has no group content, you know, other than the entire game.

Nope.

Group content. Content my guild can do. Content that challenges us a team.

There is none of that. Zero.

World zerg events are not group content. Dungeons, as poorly designed as they are, might be group content, but what guild has 5 people in it? Not any real MMO guild, that’s for sure.

BiJay.9830:

Aren’t most MMORPGs soloable outside of dungeons/instances? Or did I just play the wrong ones?

There is no group content, that’s the problem.

Rhysati.4932:

Zeldain.5710:

Genesis.5169:

I really wanted to defend GW2 I got all my friends to play and then they pretty much told me something that changed my mind about this game.

“Too much stuff here is optional”

You don’t even have to speak to another player in game and you can get full Exotics. You don’t even have to talk to anyone and you get credit for Boss DE’s and WvW. I’m starting to notice i rarely party with anyone outside of dungeons. I don’t party with anyone in WvW either, spvpp doesn’t really count.

This entire game is solable and since it is no one communicates outside of LA.

Anyone getting this feel i’m starting to feel that the MM in MMO is lost for GW2.

I realized this early on, so quit at about level 36 and haven’t looked back.

This isn’t an MMO – it’s a single player game that you play along side others, not WITH others.

If you quit, why are you here?

And secondly, level 36? You have one dungeon available to you that you probably didn’t even do. And quite frankly, I cannot think of any MMOs currently that getting to less than half of the max level will have you flooded with group content that needs doing.

Uh, it’s pretty clear I made the right choice. Everyone acknowledges there is no group content.

Vorch.2985:

The game has as much grouped content as you and those you surround yourself with (guild and friends) care to do

There’s not one thing my guild can do in this game together. Not one single thing. Nothing that requires us to act as a team, that’s for sure.

Genesis.5169:

I really wanted to defend GW2 I got all my friends to play and then they pretty much told me something that changed my mind about this game.

“Too much stuff here is optional”

You don’t even have to speak to another player in game and you can get full Exotics. You don’t even have to talk to anyone and you get credit for Boss DE’s and WvW. I’m starting to notice i rarely party with anyone outside of dungeons. I don’t party with anyone in WvW either, spvpp doesn’t really count.

This entire game is solable and since it is no one communicates outside of LA.

Anyone getting this feel i’m starting to feel that the MM in MMO is lost for GW2.

I realized this early on, so quit at about level 36 and haven’t looked back.

This isn’t an MMO – it’s a single player game that you play along side others, not WITH others.

wildcode.5403:

While there are legitimate ways to make money in the game, if a player finds a more profitable way, the onus is on them to find out if it is an exploit or not. In the case of the snow flake jewels, those familiar with crafting knew there was something wrong with the recipe. And those who saw a quick buck are now banned.

I don’t think that’s a great policy. This was a case of a very fine line… mismanaged by Anet.

Conwolv.4329:

Sure, as long as the items are also available by some means outside of raiding as well. Maybe not as easy to get as they are in the raid, but by some means (not by being BoE and sold by raiders).

I want no one to feel like they have to raid to get specific items in game. Even if they’re skins.

I think there should absolutely be content-specific items sprinkled throughout the game, and if you want those items, yhou will have to do that specifci content. Even if that means raiding, crafting, sPvP or anything else you don’t “prefer”. If it’s an object you desire, you have to go a bit out of your way.

I wouldn’t think the Claw of the Shatterer would be avilable anywhere but… from defeating the Shatterer in instanced mode, for example.

No, there is no point. There is no progression system, there is no content for guilds.

Conwolv.4329:

Zeldain, I’m OK with not having anything being exclusive. Maybe greater progress towards a reward for harder content. Like getting more tokens towards a dungeon set than an easier 5 man version of that dungeon.

There’s lots of ways of doing this without alienating other players.

By exclusive, I don’t think it has to be entire sets of gear or things like that. But simply (to use my tired example) “The Claw of The Shatterer” as a dagger skin drop and maybe some achievements… that sort of thing.

I personally like the idea of “world boss encounters” but instanced and tuned for high difficulty for a specific group size of equal to or greater than 20. I had discussed this at length on some pre-release fan site forum, and I think the idea is pretty solid.

1) It doesn’t exclude any players from seeing content – they can do the open world zerg version that we have now
2) It provides a new game mode that allows team-minded PvE guilds activities and a progression path
3) It provides a level of mastery to players who are done with the single player game, and are ready to step up to true team play

Sylv.5324:

Zeldain.5710:

If they provided 20 man “instanced” versions of world events, with loot specific to it (no better mind you, simply “Claw of the Shatterer” style loot) why does it matter? You can still see the content, but if you want to field a team to take on the tougher version and get more exclusive rewards, you’d be able to .

Posts like this further make me hope that ANet sticks to its guns and are why I will always oppose instanced raids.

More exclusive rewards for a more difficult effort… seems to make sense to me.

Sylv.5324:

Conwolv.4329:

Just because in your experience you’ve had a harder time with it than others shouldn’t keep AN from building that type of content for those who can.

ANet disagrees with you, and have said that they don’t want group size to be a barrier to experience all of GW2’s content (and rewards).

There is a missed opportunity to provide team-minded players something to do in an otherwise awesome game world.

If they provided 20 man “instanced” versions of world events, with loot specific to it (no better mind you, simply “Claw of the Shatterer” style loot) why does it matter? You can still see the content, but if you want to field a team to take on the tougher version and get more exclusive rewards, you’d be able to .

This would be a win-win for this game IMO.

Sylv.5324:

Zeldain.5710:

Sylv.5324:

No, it’s not harder. That is why raiders are such a small minority, because getting 20 people with various lives and obligations is a pain.

That excuse just doesn’t hold water.

What about bowling leagues? What about poker night? What about going to the movies? They all require planning ahead for what amounts to leisure time with friends – no different here.

As soon as you get out of high school, planning something with 20 friends, let alone every few days/once a week, for several hours, is a pain in the butt. People have jobs, spouses, kids, illnesses, etc.

I’ve been in big raiding guilds and pvp guilds, and it just kept turning into a logistical nightmare after a while as people started getting older and having lives.

But a guild is just that – a group of like-minded people with interests and abilities similar to your own. So, chances are if you join a guild, they’re going to be of the mindset that it’s ok to plan an online event for 4 hours on Thursday nights.

Namu.5712:

Well cant argue that but, what says you have to go into a instanced part of the world with 20 people to be considered something to do?

Because for team play and guild progression, that’s the only way to test the true skill and knowledge of the team – in a controlled environment without outside influences. That way, all guilds are measured on the same playing field.

Sylv.5324:

No, it’s not harder. That is why raiders are such a small minority, because getting 20 people with various lives and obligations is a pain.

That excuse just doesn’t hold water.

What about bowling leagues? What about poker night? What about going to the movies? They all require planning ahead for what amounts to leisure time with friends – no different here.

The biggest problem with the targeting is definitely to loss of target.

When you click on the screen (perhaps to move the mouse to get a different angle on combat) it de-selects your target. It shouldn’t behave like that, and should ONLY change targets when/if you tab or go mouse-down on another target. Not mouse-down on a bush.

Just to amend to my post above – that could almost function as a guild mode as well. If certain content-specific gear drops from a mob, perhaps they only drop it in some sort of “hard mode” if killed a certain way, or without certain abilities (or him using certain abilities). This would give true team-based guilds a skill ceiling to shoot for, and control what the loot table looks like.

Sylv.5324:

ANet’s view was that locking them behind large raids was too exclusionary to most of the playerbase. Which I agree with.

’They’re just skins!’ is silly to say when the whole point of the game is to acquire cool skins.

What ANet should do (my armchair self says) is finish that guild v guild stuff that they’ve alluded to.

You really can’t have it both ways, though. The skins are unnecessary to see other content, which was the GW2 mantra, I thought? And making them more coveted only serves to make more interesting content for players to go after.

Also, as I mentioned open world content there’s nothing at all exclusionary about it. Everyone can participate just by walking by and tagging. If the Shatterer dropped a claw that I could use for a dagger that I could ONLY get from him, that would make it 10000x more interesting and desirable.

Sylv.5324:

When they start locking specific skins and stats behind 20-man raids, yes, that’s a problem that will exclude many people from being able to access it. Not everyone has access to a large raiding group, let alone one that is mellow.

If they introduce 20-mans, I’ll probably just quit MMOs for good, as GW2 was my hope for an MMO that did not build its game around raids (and I have taken them at their word that they would not create big raids). It was annoying in WoW, it gated stuff out of many people’s reach, caused a lot of resentment, and put strain on guilds and friendships.

I see no problem with locking skins behind content (remember, they are just skins), in fact that’s what makes it interesting.

Honestly I can’t believe they didn’t even do this with open world content… Why isn’t there a “Claw of The Shatterer” dagger I can get ONLY by killing him?

But the need for large-scale organized group PvE content is there… some form of activity/progression for guilds needs to exist.

^^ Well said Conwolv.

The lack of content for guilds is the biggest problem, but as you can see by combat design I don’t think they ever intended it. So It ends up being a game you either like or hate for what it is, and it seems many people dislike it for it’s lack of team-based long-term gameplay objectives/progression.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

You do relize that manny of us actualy enjoy the fact that we are more accountable for our own survivability and we are not completely dependent on some magic healer to stay on our feet.

You’re looking at it the wrong way. It’s not about shirking responsibility to another player… but rather the variety of gameplay that option provides.

The problem with “everyone is accountable” is that “everyone does the same thing” which brings us back to the original problem – no variety in combat and no organized and strategized team play whatsoever.

VOLKON.1290:

Zeldain.5710:

Natural.7013:

Playing this game has really opened my eyes to how much I actually like the Trinity. I’ve went back to another game (Not THAT game) just as my main MMORPG now with this as a side game because of it. Anyone else feel the same way?

The trinity works very well for representing the real effects of combat, but more importantly offering varied playstyles and allowing for more defined roles that are essential for good team-based gameplay. That is missing entirely here on GW2.

Yeah… because every army has that one guy that all the enemies shoot at while the medics keep him healed and the infantry try not to stand in the fire…

Maybe you’ve never heard of tanks in the military, or their role… or the ground support troops that go with them, not to mention the MASH unit…. hmmm.

Mackdose.6504:

My shout warrior in cleric gear would like a word with you.

Can he single-handedly keep your dungeon group alive?

Thought so.

Natural.7013:

Playing this game has really opened my eyes to how much I actually like the Trinity. I’ve went back to another game (Not THAT game) just as my main MMORPG now with this as a side game because of it. Anyone else feel the same way?

The trinity works very well for representing the real effects of combat, but more importantly offering varied playstyles and allowing for more defined roles that are essential for good team-based gameplay. That is missing entirely here on GW2.

Gbok.1039:

Who says we are a small minority. Where are your numbers and data to show that we are in fact the minority?

And maybe you are correct. Maybe there just are not enough people in the world to support a game that you simply play becasue it is fun to do so. Which makes me sad as I have no desire to chase gear like I have done in the past with other games.

And that is all anyone who is complaining about this game is looking for. More gear to chase. There is in fact more than enough activities here to do post 80. Just not enough shinnies for those who need that carrot to keep playing. And by shinnies I mean higher stat gear to feel more powerful than other players.

It really doesn’t have much to do with rewards, honestly. It has to do more with (lack of) progression. An MMORPG is supposed to provide a long-term proposition in terms of character progression… whether that’s through end game, systems like crafting or reputation, or what have you. GW2 has none of that. The only “end game” is to grind for a Legendary weapon.

There simply isn’t enough to keep people playing, and no – simplistic “fun” is not enough for an MMORPG – there has to be depth and long-term character progression options and variety.

Gbok.1039:

It has more than enough content post 80 for other players that want something different such as myself.

I just do not get how you cannot understand this.

Do you like to listen to the same music that your mother does? Do you like all the same foods that your friends like? Do you prefer salty snacks or would you rather have a piece of chocolate?

Do you see my point yet?

The point is, players like yourself are a small minority. And that makes this a very niche game that cannot succeed in the way it was originally hoped (including by myself.).

An empty MMO with no one making cash shop purchases will look like a very different place, as is evident. Plan B isn’t pretty (look at TOR). It was a valiant effort but it’s not working out for most.

Daddyrage.6902:

People the point of games is to have fun, not playing WvWvW because there isn’t enough rewards is silly because there will obviously be more in the future and more stuff will come. Play stuff because it entertains you, why do you always have to be rewarded for what you do?

But I think quite a few people also said “it isn’t fun.” Don’t just pick on the posts that you want to see – there are posts you don’t want to see also.

CMF.5461:

Zeldain.5710:

MistyMountains.3751:

Dont support this- sorry but the holy trinity actually required no real tactics what so ever…played many mmos in my life and action oriented combat will always require more skill and teamwork …

Sorry, didn’t realize it was opposites day.

Not having the trinity results in total, chaotic combat with absolutely zero strategy required and no tactics applied. That’s what we have here in GW2 here now.

Team combat is all but non-existent. It’s a joke of an MMO.

Not totally related, but an fps with no combat roles what so ever has tons of strategy and tactics required in order to hold rooms, clear hallways, and reach objectives.

There isn’t a tank, healer, and dps in counter strike but there are tons of strategies in that game if you want to use them (even if most just zerg a spot)

So positioning and team coordination are still around in non-role oriented combat.

Yes, that’s correct. That’s what makes the zerg combat design in GW2 so perplexing.

MistyMountains.3751:

Dont support this- sorry but the holy trinity actually required no real tactics what so ever…played many mmos in my life and action oriented combat will always require more skill and teamwork …

Sorry, didn’t realize it was opposites day.

Not having the trinity results in total, chaotic combat with absolutely zero strategy required and no tactics applied. That’s what we have here in GW2 here now.

Team combat is all but non-existent. It’s a joke of an MMO.

MaRko.3165:

- but wait – this is a MMO!

As someone who has never played a ‘mmo’ before I don’t see how the ‘mmo’ element makes this game any different. I’ll simply play the existing content and if entertained or interested enough I may roll another toon and play through again (or a few more times).

That’s a single player gamer mentality. This is supposed to be an MMO.

The expectation of an MMO is to deliver a persistent world with long-term goals and content updates on a regular basis. It’s not a “play, play again later…” proposition, and that may end up being quite frankly the final nail in the GW2 coffin.

Brotein.8572:

i find it extremly difficult and frustrating. playing most classes already i cant seem to stay alive during most fights greater then 1 enemy. the combat is too busy to figure out what is going on by time you do your dead.most areas have many enemies crawling and when you finish they respawn right on top of you. playing as a thief it only takes like 4 hits it seems to kill me even trying to evade all these attacks. how do they expect anyone to hang onto this game. comes at a premium ,the players have to be super special buttomn smashers. i know its “not azeroth” but i find the game extremely difficult to get through. im sorry arena youve made me made for the last time and will not be playing any more

It really doesn’t get any better. You will likely get “used” to some of the mechanics, but if you’re like me you’ll never enjoy them.

It’s a complete mindless zerg fest with no strategy and humongous grinds for “content”.

I’d advise just getting the refund while you can.

Monthly achievements are optional I hear.

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

easy peasy, make 8 alts and go to the wvw JP and there done.
4 × 2 alts if you don’t have enough space. (just delete the old ones)

That certainly smacks of great game design, just as the designers drew it up, I bet.

dimgl.4786:

There’s a mount thread every other thread. There will most likely be no mounts in this game and if they are eventually implemented I’ll be greatly disappointed

There’s no rationale to not having mounts in the game. They would do nothing to detract from your “enjoyment” — only add to that of others.

I guarantee you we’re going to see things in the cash shop soon similar to Farmville – “Steps” you can buy with gems to skip certain achievement objectives.