Guild Wars 2

BurnedToast.3781:

I guess it’s related to point #1, but I’m surprised they didn’t mention the horribly shallow combat system. Actually I’d say point #1 is not really a problem, it’s just a symptom of the shallow combat system.

There’s no tanking, no aggro management (if the game has a hate system it’s so incomprehensible it might as well be random).

There’s no control (defiant buff on anything worth controlling),

Buffs are short duration and long cooldown, and healing coefficents are almost universally terrible. There’s no mana/energy or anything like that either making support not particularly viable.

Probably 70% of your survivability comes from the two dodges every single class gets free, 20% from utilities/traits, and 10% from toughness/health. Meanwhile, due to the downed system (and to rez zerging which thankfully they are starting to fix with fractals), it’s not much of a problem if you die anyway.

Meanwhile ANet’s idea of making a fight harder is to slap on absurdly large health bars to the same boring mechanics of every other fight.

They don’t explain the roles better because there is only one role – DPS. Sure, maybe you want to sacrifice a little damage so you die in two hits instead of one, or maybe you give up a damage skill for a banner or shout, but in the end every single classes is invited to that group primarily to do DPS.

Couldn’t agree more about the buff/debuff system. Its unusable and uninteresting in it’s current state.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/19/where-guild-wars-2-goes-wrong/

I think this is an excellent basis for the foundational problems with the game. Try and read it objectively and see if you agree.

Groovy.6749:

100% cosmetic. Skin is amazing hence challenging to get. Nothing more to it than that.
You’re never going to get locked out of a dungeon because you weren’t trendy enough.

“Challenging” to get?

Also, aesthetics is subjective… they are not “amazing” to everyone. Very dangerous hanging “end game” on the look of a weapon.

Kirye.9463:

…who thinks that the game described here in the forums, mostly by haters or QQing people, is completely different from the one I enjoy playing? I mean yes there are some aspects, like the effort needed to craft a legendary weapon, which most people(me for example)really don’t like. It seems like people bring their rage here and write wall posts about “omg the game itz baad I don t like fractal the game iz ruined events suck” just to do something about their frustration. I mean is the game really that bad as described in forums? Coming here without trying the game makes it seem like the worst MMORPG ever in every aspect. I have a thief, 100% fun. Every single time I play. Im having a lot of fun with wintersday events and jumping puzzle and I LOVED Halloween and clocktower.So what’s all this whole rage about? Childish people only? Really? Dunno maybe I’m lucky with GW2 or I don’t take it seriously as some of you do. The game isn’t perfect ok, but I can’t really identify it with the one described in these forums. Just wanted to share these feelings.

It all has to do with the level of passion and attachement you have to something.

For example, some people are happy driving a “car” and can’t understand why some people need to drive a “BMW” and then complain even then that it isn’t perfect.

it’s not that you don’t care, but you care far less than the complainers. They want a perfect game, just as they interpreted in their mind. But for players just playing a game, you don’t notice the problems.

Alloy.2839:

Aside from being artistic, legendary items are status symbols. How much status would they confer have if anyone could buy one for 10g? They are cosmetic and provide no benefit as far as gameplay goes. Also, some players may be dedicated enough to obtain the materials from playing the game, not just buying them from the TP.

That’s missing the point – at least my point.

I’m not complaining about the time to acquire, or cost… but the lack of creativity in the quest to obtain them. It’s a grind, only a grind, and a grind of Asian proportions.

Karizee.8076:

Legendary items will take time. Not meant to be had in a matter of weeks.

Time has nothing to do with it. It’s the decade-old Asian-style grind in the face of “we don’t want players to grind.”

The grind is indeed out of control. There is no creativity in even putting it behind story or other content – just go out and grind grind grind.

And oh yeah, you can’t grind too much because of DR. So we’ll gate you and tell you when it’s time for you to grind some more.

Of course, you can always go to the cash shop to pay money for what you want.

See the trend?

I can say that this didn’t happen to me one time during the entire level up process. It’s a fringe thing that in my opinion doesn’t warrant developer time to address.

projectcedric.6951:

I’m sure it’s just for slogan purposes. Its kind of a contradictory statement. Making an MMO “for people who don’t like MMO”. Does that even make sense?

No it doesn’t, and now we see exactly how it turned out.

Part of the monetization strategy is, yes, to pray on people who have an addiction to gambling.

JMadFour.9730:

I am just wondering why I have to pay to travel to a waypoint when I die.

That’s part of the death penalty. Don’t die!

insum.4890:

Max Bore 3 is getting more votes atm.

It’s a better game than GW2, that’s why.

It’s even a better MMO.

The cost is minimal, and there needs to be something for players to have to make a choice.

They could (and should) add mounts to make traveling on foot a viable alternative.

Tolmos.8395:

This article covers the concepts of Horizontal progression in an awesome way. Atm, there are is only 1 true horizontal progression game (GW1), since GW2 has decided to go the way of Vertical progression. It’s a shame, but I do hope other games will take up the mantle of Guild Wars 1. I’d love to see a true sequel to that game.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/strangesands/122012/24271_What-is-Horizontal-Progression-Really

Horizontal progression is actually a preferable method.

But here in GW2, they tacked it on so it will forever feel “unnatural” and grindy.

Horizontal progression simply does not engage players enough.

xiv.7136:

10-man raids are only 2x a dungeon size of 5. Not a major thing really.

Not a major thing? It’s double. Thats a 100% increased inclusion of people in your guild – your team. Critical for an MMO, no?

They need large scale, organized group PvE content in this game for the long haul. But the combat system needs to be re-worked for that to happen.

xiv.7136:

It’s a staggeringly beautiful game full of stuff to do, with great PVP.

You could ask for raids, which GW2 does not have, and better lore (like TSW) – but everything else it does head and shoulders above any other MMO.

Raids would be a good step in the right direction (this game lacks any team play for an MMO).

But I’m afraid the combat systems and class synergies just would not support it as they currently stand. With no roles not to mention a weak buff/debuff system and chaotic “free for all” combat… it wouldn’t be pretty.

They would have to overhaul the entire game for raids to work… it just isn’t worth it, but its sorely missing.

Venirto.4208:

The game had a rough start, that’s it. I think that the worst is already behind us and that the game will get only better and better.

The problem is, MMORPGs only get one chance. There hasn’t been a single one that has “recovered” from a rough start. They tumble down hill and settle into a playerbase size at a fraction of what they expect, and then the devs have to change their content plans accordingly.

I’m quite confident that GW2 is not the success that Anet wanted it to be out of the gate, and are adjusting resource allocation (staff and money) to produce content in line with their actual revenue – not their original design plan.

Tubular.4358:

I LOVE IT. Thank you Anet for giving us your best effort and giving us these patches/fixes just within a few months. This game in 6 months imo is gonna be “the game” that others will look up too. THx Anet!

Yep, the “REAL” success is always just around the corner, eh?

Yeah, it’s really in a tailspin to be honest… lol it’s a free game and it can’t even hold players. Farmville has more retention.

critickitten.1498:

That said, I do expect the population of this game to probably settle somewhere around SWTOR’s levels, maybe a bit lower or higher. Which would be plenty, honestly.

Yup, that or less. And that’s not a good number when they’re relying on the cash shop to survive and make content. It’s a far cry from Mike O’Brien’s comment about how it will be the #1 MMO passing Warcraft. Suffice it to say, that’s failure.

chopsticks.9853:

Ummm… It’s the weekend. Every game on Xfire almost doubles on the weekend… OP did you know gw2 started with 80k hours played and 9k users?

Even more than that, it peaked at over 100k hours.

Rannulf.9417:

What are you five? of course there’s gonna be decline, every freaking mmo have decline after launch, if you know anything would would now that,.

Haha, no they don’t. Mike O’Brien wants this to be more successful than WoW. WoW didn’t have a decline of any sort until 2010. 6 years. Not 3 months.

Rannulf.9417:

This is the top game from xfire, i never uses it and prob never will and i can never see why it’s important to some people.

The fact that LoL only got 135k shows you how only a small amount of player uses it.

What are you people not understanding?

It’s not the amount of people, but rather the trends it shows.

OF THE PEOPLE USING IT, there’s a huge decline in GW2 activity since launch. But the sample size is more than large enough to predict overall trends.

Vorch.2985:

Xfire does not EVER accurately depict the growth, decline, or overall health of a game.

Hours played by a small sample size can be very manipulative.

Other less-than-perfect, but still better, measures of game health are profits, server loads, and overall customer satisfaction.

Xfire has ALWAYS accurately depicted the growth, decline and overall health of a game.

They want people to buy gold. Of course they’re going to allow the sale of legendaries.

Bastion.2457:

Zeldain.5710:

Bastion.2457:

Don’t try and force what? I love this game, and it gives me everything I want from an MMo and a single player game.

It is you that seems to have incorrect expectations of a game you don’t seem to like.

No issues here

No, you don’t like MMOs. If you don’t like people, and MMOs were designed to be played with people, then you don’t like MMOs.

If fails as an MMO precisely BECAUSE of the things you like about it, and that’s why player engagement has tumbled.

So based on the game that actually exists and is real, and loved by loads of people, and I love too, I am wrong, based on your opinion of a game that does not exist, isn’t real, and isn’t at all available?

What you are saying is I am wrong for liking the game as it was designed, and you are right for hating it because it wasn’t designed how you expect games to work?

I’m not telling yo that you don’t like the game. You like the game.

Others like the game.

But it is not liked as an MMO by players that love MMOs. That is where it is failing.

The Fractals, Ascended gear, etc… why you think they did that? They are trying to remedy it.

Bastion.2457:

Don’t try and force what? I love this game, and it gives me everything I want from an MMo and a single player game.

It is you that seems to have incorrect expectations of a game you don’t seem to like.

No issues here

No, you don’t like MMOs. If you don’t like people, and MMOs were designed to be played with people, then you don’t like MMOs.

If fails as an MMO precisely BECAUSE of the things you like about it, and that’s why player engagement has tumbled.

critickitten.1498:

Bastion.2457:

Zeldain.5710:

Bastion.2457:

It isn’t an MMo anyways, it’s a multiplayer solo game.

And that is precisely the failure.

What failure? I don’t want to play with random buttheads, just friends and guildies, so ill take my MMo world, and my single player mechanics and have fun.

Why should the whole game be gated by playing with others? Many people love MMo’s but hate MMo players (because lets face it in general the vocal ones are vile and nasty little snots). What failure is it where a game is a smash hit, loved by millions, and appeals to me perfectly?

One of the things I loved about Skyrim was it’s MMo feel, in a single player environment. The only thing that game could have done better was allowing me to bring friends into my world with me, not MMo, just Left 4 Dead type gaming, a few friends, exploring and playing together, without the hassle of dealing with the unwashed masses.

I think what you meant to type is “This game is not Vanilla WoW, the one I think I remember based on what a few people said it was like on a forum I read once”.

I already live in a world filled with buttholes and vile people, I don’t want to purchase something that allows me to do the same in my spare time.

I think you’ve just accurately captured what has charmed me about this game more than any other.

Fact of the matter is, I love MMOs but I hate people. Now I have a game that lets me play mostly by myself, and the people I do run into aren’t competing to see how long it takes to tick me off.

They you simply don’t like MMOs. Don’t try and force it.

Bastion.2457:

Zeldain.5710:

Bastion.2457:

It isn’t an MMo anyways, it’s a multiplayer solo game.

And that is precisely the failure.

What failure? I don’t want to play with random buttheads, just friends and guildies, so ill take my MMo world, and my single player mechanics and have fun.

Why should the whole game be gated by FORCING playing with others? Many people love MMo’s but hate MMo players (because lets face it in general the vocal ones are vile and nasty little snots). What failure is it where a game is a smash hit, loved by millions, and appeals to me perfectly? The way it works now, it allows me to play with others when I choose to, not when the game tells me I have to. If I want to go it alone, I can, if I want to go out with friends, I can do that too, and if I want to join randoms, yup, can do that aswell.

One of the things I loved about Skyrim was it’s MMo feel, in a single player environment. The only thing that game could have done better was allowing me to bring friends into my world with me, not MMo, just Left 4 Dead type gaming, a few friends, exploring and playing together, without the hassle of dealing with the unwashed masses.

I think what you meant to type is “This game is not Vanilla WoW, the one I think I remember based on what a few people said it was like on a forum I read once”.

I already live in a world filled with buttholes and vile people, I don’t want to purchase something that allows me to do the same in my spare time.

What failure? They set out to build the best MMO in the world and instead they produced a game that promotes ant-social behavior and eschews player interaction. In other words, it’s that solo game you want. And not the MMO they said (and the rest of the world) want.

That’s why it’s a failure. That niche is not enough to keep it viable and relevant for long.

Sylv.5324:

With all of the speed buffs that every other class has, I as a mesmer an a detriment to any dungeon group that wants to move fast. I’m tired of everyone zooming ahead, and either I have to equip a subpar weapon or drag behind.

And get yelled at.

Heck, the same goes for WvW. If I’m no longer allowed to keep up with my friends, then please make it so I can play without my friends. I’m tired of being yelled at for being slow. I don’t feel like being yelled at anymore. This is not fun anymore.

My roomie is having issues, too. They are my and my sweetie’s aide. If someone has an emergency, or even just a basic physical need, they have to stop, help us, and come back. This was not an issue in GW1, but in GW2, they get to be made to feel like a jerk for just doing their job.

I realise that fundamentally the issue is with players, but most players don’t want to pause or to go slow. And I don’t think that we should have to put up with nastiness just because we play classes with suboptimal speed or occasionally inconvenient real lives. What GW1 did so well was allow folks like us to access the content without the abuse. Please somehow bring it back.

It’s an MMO. Other players are your henchman.

plasmacutter.2709:

Zeldain.5710:

Medazolam.3058:

Honestly, anyone here use xfire?

Doesn’t matter.

What it shows is that of the people who DO user Xfire, it has dropped from 100,000 hours played to less than 9,000.

Decline with a capital D. If this was a sub game, it would be a failure of SW:TOR proportions.

I didn’t know what xfire was until I came to this forum.

Reminds me of that one poll from the 2012 election season that had 66% of its sample as old southern men.

The factors that contribute to someone using xfire could easily correlate to other propensities, such as being more or less informed, more or less patient, more prone to be playing multiple titles, etc.

garbage in, garbage out.

As I’ve said before – if anyone has a better documented indicator of GW2 player engagement, please post it.

Until that time, this is what we have. And it’s 100% accurate in and of itself.

maximus.8635:

Not the first time I’ve experienced this. Last night I was in the hinterlands with my level 49 thief doing a group event where you have to kill some large rock dogs followed by a really men centaur champion. Dogs were dispatched by the group of about 6 doing event then the centaur guy game.

Everytime I took a hit, I died. I have gear and skills appropriate for mylevel.

Each time I died (about 10 times) I had to spend 70 copper to revive nomore than a few feet away from where the event was taking place. So 7 silver in revivies plus repair costs all because of the constant 1 hit kills.

This is outragous

What was your healer doi… oh. wait.

Medazolam.3058:

Honestly, anyone here use xfire?

Doesn’t matter.

What it shows is that of the people who DO user Xfire, it has dropped from 100,000 hours played to less than 9,000.

Decline with a capital D. If this was a sub game, it would be a failure of SW:TOR proportions.

OP is delirious. It’s a holiday spike, just like Halloween. Know what happened after that? It kept dropping MORE THAN EVER.

Well, if you’re going to use it now, then you also have to show what the real trends are:

Dropped over 90% since launch. Fact.

This is a holiday event… if that’s all Anet can draw players back for, game is in trouble.

AlexMc.2083:

leprekan.7248:

AlexMc.2083:

leprekan.7248:

Zeldain.5710:

Why would I do that?

You know what is interesting about your post? How oblivious Anet apparently is to the degree of UNHAPPY a good portion of their customers are.

When I read the forums and can’t find an argument against people calling them money grubbing there is a problem. My “fun” consists of logging in to try and grind gold with DR and AIRDROPS working against me to try and get enough gold to buy the last piece (Dusk) for my legendary.

It feels rather like a blatant SHOVE to try and make me buy gold to finish it. Dusk is 500 and it is obvious that when I reach 500 it will be 800 and then 1,000 etc etc. This is not the same company I loyally supported since they came into being.

I even tried posting a SIMPLE solution of putting in an NPC that sold the items (which would remove gold from the economy … a good thing) their only response was to bury the thread in suggestions.

The honeymoon is over.

When was there ever any illusion that legendaries weren’t supposed to be a grind?

Thank you for the casual players input. The precursor shouldn’t be the grind … the recipe is a LONG LIST of items … THAT is the grind.

… Why should the rest of it be a grind but not the precursor? I’m not really seeing how your point here makes sense.

Because it’s a cash-shop baited hook… it is always just out of reach designed to push players to spend MONEY to buy gold to move it a long. And if Anet doesn’t see what they want? They can tweak the “economy” at will until they do.

This is an atm for them, not a game. Don’t buy into the hype. And to be fair, it’s not just Anet but the people now pulling their strings….

Why would I do that?

Squallion.5631:

I can’t find a group in firefall? Fine. I can’t find a proper battle in PS2?(one that’s not a complete faceroll). Fine. I even rev up WoW to see if there’s a group for a world boss, nope. That’s ok. Guild wars 2 is always there. I was taking a break, but I’m in a grouping mode.

Ten minutes later, I’m suppressed for saying “Ranger LFG for AC story mode” three times.

Three times.

Three times.

If there’s a problem with me posting that I’m looking for a group once every few minutes, then integrate a LFG system. This is ridiculous. I feel like I’m playing a single player RPG and it’s only midnight on a saturday. This is screwed up.

First, your first three game choices were the right one… GW2 is not worth playing. But if you insist…

Get a guild and friends. You shouldn’t expect to be able to do MMO content with just any random players.

MorceluLebeau.5109:

So, logged in I’m in the asuran starting area and I head to open a gift..now, 6 little “toys” pop open and I die…wtf, dieing is Not fun..and who ever thought this would be cute or funny can receive a pink slip for Christmas this year..

Perhaps… you should play an MMO with friends?

Bastion.2457:

It isn’t an MMo anyways, it’s a multiplayer solo game.

And that is precisely the failure.

Yep, the systems did not come together well and it’s more of as pointless grind than a ‘living breathing world’ – without progression or large group organized PvP, the game is very shallow and of no longevity.

Amra.6028:

Fiennes.9568:

If I would you, I’d find a class that you enjoy playing.

The only acceptable answer that will ever be read here.

If you play to win, please leave and never return. There’s plenty of games for elitists that play to compensate.

On the other hand, if that’s how he enjoys playing, who are you to say otherwise? He paid his money just like you did, and from the sound of it I;d rather lose your attitude than his eagerness.

Knowing that it’s the developer’s primary goal to make the classes all equal, I suggest you simply find one you like, not one someone tells you is “better” because they’re lying.

Harder is fine.

Stupid, like this one, is not. Broken design, exclusive game mechanics, etc.

CrusaderRabbit.7460:

Yes I can. Because I can get lined up, I can get prepared for it. This jump puzzle is- load in later than others, have two seconds to get on and off first couple snowflakes, oh didn’t make it? wait a minute before you can start again. There is a major difference between gauntlet style jumping and timed jumping

Yep, this design is insane and I challenge the designer responsible to come in here and explain it.

Fox.3469:

THEN DON’T DO IT

seriously the reward is 3 gifts and some crap , it’s really not worth the effort but the main reason loads of people are bashing their head against the wall now is because there is a wall to bash against, if you make a hole in that wall people will crawl trough it, and never know how good it feels to get over it. If a casual player succeeds after 40 tries and bursts into joy he’ll get much more out of it then if he just did it easy mode and made it in one try, without ever trying the hard version. To keep things interesting you need challenges. Now either go out and make it, or do something else of the 1000 fun activities in this game.

Btw bad design, yes indeed, that is why there are many more thank you for this cool stuff posts here then negative ones, on a forum that’s normally all negative, yes indeed.

Nope.

Then where IS the content for the rest of players?

Reihert.1509:

I’ll pray for your soul teenager.

Reality stings, huh? It’s. Simply. Terrible. Design.

Fox.3469:

Valandil Dragonhart.2371:

wintermute.4096:

The thing is, it is not super hard by any stretch of the imagination. It is mildly difficult at best.

Personally, I loved the clocktower, but apparently, anet has given in to all the whining and made it so easy everyone will finish it now sooner or later.

So… you’re wanting people to fail? How else is someone supposed to interpret that?

So you want noone to fail? even not the guys that give up after 2 tries? or how am i supposed to interpret that?

Yes some people will fail this and yet if everyone made it this wouldn’t even be an achievement. Plz think before you speak, if you want everyone to do everything you’ll take all the challenge away, and challenge is what makes a game fun. You may as well just watch a movie if there’s no challenge…

Why don’t you accept that not every single aspect in a game needs to be completed for it to be fun? If you keep doing something that frustrates you over and over, that’s your problem, not the problem of the game.

You’re basicly saying the same as, dungeons are to hard because you died in them…

GW2 has stuff for everyone, do the stuff that is ment for your playstyle and don’t complain about content that isn’t, cause you know what, you’re not the only person in the world.

This attitude won’t stand. And it certainly won’t retain players. ArenaNet is dutifully aware of this (they see it in their metrics.)

Overcoming challenge is one thing – overcoming bad design in whats should be the most casual of casual content (Holidays) and yes – EVERYONE should be able to do it regardless of their gaming dexterity.

This is NOT a platforming game, people didn’t buy it for one and this kind of thing has to go. Immediately.

It’s simply bad design to have ~10 people jumping at the same time to platforms that disappear starting when the first person touches them.

Apple doesn’t but stuff on sale. World of Warcraft wasn’t on sale for 5 years.

Draw your own conclusions.