Guild Wars 2

I couldn’t agree more.

Also I’ll have you know that I am a cold-blooded elitist like anyone around here, but I think that facing encounters the way they were intended rather than using glitches/LoS/exploits is the way to go. This is especially true when you are an elitist and intent to prove your skills: if you are that good then don’t go the easy way, show the world who is the boss, don’t chicken away.

That’s because not only is it boring, but also it ruins the the expectations of the players. So In the end we all get less fun and you look like sissies.

Edit: and there are not that many useful exploits/glitches around, so just don’t do the few that are obvious!

Ok I see. I don’t add connotations, I am always a happy positive lad and I rejoice at the beauty of the world around me. So yes, I thought we were talking about a 30/20/x/20/x kind of build, which would make sense for speedrunning. Getting 25 in air with a build like 25/25/x/x/x only stacks vulnerability to 3.2 at best, so I figured people went for persisting flames instead with fire field provided by the group so that you don’t even have to swap out of water (swapping out is a big dps loss).
Perma fury for the group > 3 vulnerability, imho

Something on your mind Swiftpaw?

Yes yes I know I have a lot of trouble to comprehend what I read when I manage to read it. Me not so educated me sorry.

So pardon my ignorance, and consider this retort:
Do you apply your own vulnerability stacks?

I didn’t think so either. So you are being carried. Carried as in: your team mates enable you to do your damage. It’s just a technical term, no need to get all spiky about it

You are completely right.

My suggestion is a poor-dev’s solution (easy to implement), but your suggestion is the best way to go.

Approved.

Hmm
I studied statistics a bit and well, that’s not the law of large numbers!

I mean, come on, just use wiki…

Actually my argument is not mainstream, in fact it is against the belief of the masses. But being one against the majority does not make any statement valid anyway.

Dub.1273:

Zelyhn.8069:

Wow wow wow, how do you maintain 25 vuln as an elem??
Besides, if the elem is providing the fire field himself then he does not have the highest damage output of the game, he needs a guardian (or an engi…) for that.

Before conjuring LH just use a blast combo, aswell as before picking a new one up. Doesn’t really lower dps at all.
Also notice how i was talking of 5-25 stacks, not permanent 25.

Yes so you need to be in fire for that, which means that you won’t be in water for the next 8 to 13 seconds, so not 20% bonus damage for that time, so less damage.

Bright.9160:

Zelyhn.8069:

Yeah I mean let’s face it. As an elem you can either:
-burst with FGS
-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried
-damage decently and support with FA and focus

The first is good for speedkills mainly, the second is good for speedruns only, and the last is good for challenging content.

We can not do the three at the same time.

Yes I am emphasizing this a lot, because I don’t want any more nerfs for my beloved class (actually I want buffs, check my sig ).

Wrong on so many accounts. When we run eles, the usual cycle is to run in (scepter/dagger), cast Dragon’s Tooth, followed quickly by Ring of Fire and Phoenix for 2 blast finishers, then the warrior(s) run in and use Warhorn 5, and if you’re good you can squeeze in another Dragon’s tooth for a quick 15 might stacks, combined with FGJ (assuming 2 warriors, if 2 eles, it’s even more), that’s a quick 21 might stacks, at which point you drop Lightning Hammer, and the Guardian takes over the fire fields, which the ele then blasts to keep up 25 might stacks. So at most fights, the ele carries the first 5-10 seconds of the fight actually.

Good luck preaching to the people who actually know how to play at an organized level in PvE.

So you just described

-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried

Yeah but they are going to nerf it to the ground: they said the trail damage is unintended.

They are gonna nerf FGS anyway.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/RIP-conjure-builds/first#post2804501

Ever heard of the condimentalist?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Condimentalist-Kodiak-Build-Vid/first

I almost agree with you Spoj: I think dungeons should have less trial and error. Or more like a way to understand your errors. For instance a flavor text in the combat log that told you what happened when you did a mistake.

Example: against Lupicus
-if if the targeted player does not dodge his wurm incantation: “GL’s curse hit [player name] successfully, [player name] is now affected by the curse”
- as the wurm spawns: “a wurm came out of [player]‘s body as a result of GL’s curse. Kill the wurm before it reaches GL”
-as the wurm reaches GL: “a wurm has been absorbed by GL, his power and defense are increased”

Basically put in combat log all the stuff they usually try to put in very short under the mob’s name, but in much more elaborate.

Yay!

Wait, what?

In PvE this trait is taken for speedkill builds (0/25/25/20/0)

Other than that I guess you could make it work with a sigil of energy: swap attunement right after dodges, optimal if done at most every 10s.

Updated the Build section of the thread for clarity on the thought process involved.

The devs are not against many things.
What we would like to know it what they are in favor of.

spoj.9672:

Zunny zoke.

Zanks!

That’s because I am an introverted narcissist, I put Z everywhere
I am Zelyhn, a zelementalist azura. So zuck off.

[Yes mods, this is meant as a joke]

Yeah I mean let’s face it. As an elem you can either:
-burst with FGS
-damage a lot and buff with LH, but requires to be carried
-damage decently and support with FA and focus

The first is good for speedkills mainly, the second is good for speedruns only, and the last is good for challenging content.

We can not do the three at the same time.

Yes I am emphasizing this a lot, because I don’t want any more nerfs for my beloved class (actually I want buffs, check my sig ).

I agree.
That’s why I have made a suggestion about lingering elements.
Check my signature, and if you agree please post to support.

Right, that’s not what I call “maintaining”.
Also while the elem does that he is not wielding the hammer, so no fury, no might etc.
A hammer elem can maintain at best 4.2 stacks of vulnerability (with 100% crit chance)

Wow wow wow, how do you maintain 25 vuln as an elem??
Besides, if the elem is providing the fire field himself then he does not have the highest damage output of the game, he needs a guardian (or an engi…) for that.

haviz.1340:

Zelyhn.8069:

Also we could consider a role play factor

Great point. Have you ever seen a movie with 4 hackers and 1 bystander watching their efforts or 1 hacker and 4 bystanders? This is coming from someone who plays on RP server so I’m pretty experienced with that stuff.

Hm 1 hacker and 4 bystanders is much more likely!
Also there is only one console. This console has probably only one keyboard, with one enter key, one space key, etc. So a two-man hacking would be difficult.
We must consider the limitations of the processor of the console itself: is it dual core, can it bear two processor-heavy hacking processes at the same time?

I agree with you, it is hard to know.

I think that as a general rule we can say that encounters were meant to be challenging.
Skipping arah is actually challenging.
Hacking the console 1-4 is not challenging.
So if a technique makes an encounter not challenging then it is unintended.
Also we could consider a role play factor

(Yes Swiftpaw, challenge is a subjective notion)

Edit: It happens often that Anet does not fix some flaws in their dungeon designs because it would make the dungeon too hard for pugs and they would whine to the point the dungeon would have to be redesigned. This is what happened to CoF2’s defensive event with magg: they fixed the exploits and players complained so they had to redesign the encounter. But boy did I prefer the encounter before the redesign!

How is 4 warriors + 1 Guardian doing in lvl70+ Harpy fractal?

Yes I know, it is very silly!
But it is just as silly as saying that this whole matter is subjective, so no positive statement can be made.

Now that we have covered all the technical aspects of the discussion we can go back to the matter in itself without resorting to “this is only your opinion” or “this is subjective”, and I will stay away from “I am an Azura statements”.

I guess I am going to state my point again because you probably have forgotten what we are talking about:

It is beneficial for the players and for the game to focus on long term enjoyement. Long term enjoyment is the type of fun that you get from playing the game as opposed to getting completion awards. This is why facing challenges the way they were intended to be faced is better.

I’m telling you that you will understand my point when you grow up!

How weak of me to think I can make a point, especially a law of large number point, without any evidence? I could tell you about the state of the gaming market, I could tell you that the proportion of achievement based games is higher than ever and still increasing, I could tell you about the the decreasing amount of time that people spend on individual games before changing, but that would not be enough would it? I should have recorded my life and that of all the gamers I know to be any close to have the evidence required … Too bad. I guess you win this one Swiftpaw.

Well it is hardly a surprise, this discussion is not new at all. This matter has been discussed over and over. And every time it probably ended up just like this: with lack of evidence from the defendant.

That reminds me of the type of discussion I had with my parents when I was a kid. I would always come up with the best arguments, I would destroy their logic and bring them to the brink of conceding. But every time they would simply end up telling me that they are right, that I should do as they say. They would tell me they would not be able to prove their points to me at that time, but that I would understand as I grow up.

Oh but wait! Now that I am all grown up I can see it: they were always right!

Could that mean that sometimes people can be right even though they have no evidence to back their claims? Does that mean that maybe the only real way to understand their point of view is to have the maturity to see it for ourselves, with good will?

Mysteries of life … Hm! Anyway I always like a good story

/sarcasm off
I am an Azura dude, I know what I am talking about.

swiftpaw.6397:

Zelyhn.8069:

Intuition is just observation and reasoning that you are not consciously aware of. So hard to explain.

You are forming your argument based upon your feelings or intuition. Easy enough to state instead of saying ‘My general comment remains valid’ and then supplying your opinions which do not, surprisingly, validate themselves just because you’ve stated them.

No my argument is logical. What is based upon feelings or intuition is the perception of fun. I am reasoning on the matter of a subject that is considered to be subjective. Luckily for me there is something that beats subjectivity: the law of large numbers. If my observations are numerous enough then I can draw a general rule, which I did. It may not be valid in all cases, but it is generally valid.

Intuition is just observation and reasoning that you are not consciously aware of. So hard to explain.

“Subjective” is just a way to say “hard to explain”, it’s like religious beliefs, or Russia’s foreign policy.
But I am an Azura and I can explain everything.

swiftpaw.6397:

Also your idea of long term fun is not the same as other’s.

Wait you mean like we are all different and that there is no truth so nothing to talk about and no solution for anything?

You make me want to watch The Matrix again.

Yes we deserve some dev attention. Please talk to us!!

Yes it is a completely subjective opinion.
You may decide to ignore it on the basis that it is subjective, or you may decide to see if there is some logic behind it.

Some people find it fun just to get loots. I call them Excel players. Similar to those who farm diablo III: get items so that I can get items so that I can get items and then get bored.
So these players satisfy some short term view of fun.

Some people find it fun to enjoy the game they play in itself, rather than the few lines of text that tell them “good job you have finished the level you can now do the next level which is the same, with bigger numbers, but you now have bigger stats to match the bigger numbers of the level!”. So basically: the players who enjoy the trip rather than the idea of finishing it. These players satisfy a more long term view of fun.

My point is that it would be beneficial for the players and for the game to look for more long term fun.

Come on I think we are all educated enough not to resort to “that’s only your opinion comments” …
Of course what someone says is only his opinion. Unless we are clearly quoting someone everything we say is only our opinion. That’s obvious enough I think. However, it does not take away any of its validity.

What I said is simple: glitching, abusing mechanics, and using unintended techniques ruin the fun one can find in this game.
This is because there is more fun in overcoming challenges than in getting “loots”.
Avoiding challenges to get loots is like playing Excel. It’s like the crafting table. It’s boring as hell.
Avoiding challenges is avoiding the game.

The OP replied to me that he was doing a learning run. That’s his choice, I respect that. But again, it does not take invalidate my statement.

Well Oxxy, if I had 10s for everytime one of these “it ins’t fun” and “stacking/LoSing is wrong/non-intended” post was right then I’d be rich. Maybe not as rich as you, but rich anyway.

I am convinced that conjure builds are a bad way to play the elementalist, so I don’t care if they don’t buff them. I will continue using the conjures situationally and enjoy doing so.

Anyway I think we should be thankful for the first dev sign of attention after months of silence.

Sure OP, I can understand that. If it was a learning run then of course they should listen to you

My general comment remains valid.

Besides, if players have not yet learnt to run balanced builds and how to react to the unexpected by level 80 then they still won’t anytime later.

In my very honest opinion you should simply not do teaching runs in the first place. Or maybe you should teach players how to enjoy the game instead of how to avoid playing it.

Because that’s what glitching is: not playing the game.

Thanks Karl for having the courage to come down in our elem pits and talk to us

Can we know what was this other change that caused the bug please?

I remember at the start of the game I did this dungeon a few times with my guild. At that time we had very little knowledge of the game, we played badly but we were good willed.
We did the hacking part many times, but we had no knowledge of the “stack hacking” method. We did it by killing everything while one guy hacked levels one by one.
It was a noobish method, it was chaotic, it was risky, but it was FUN.

You take away all the fun in the game by facing encounters in an unintended way.
I do not understand why people would want to faceroll Alpha, the hacking part, like this.
Do you really get more fun from having the “loots” fast and safe rather than by overcoming challenges?

I’d probaby act just like that elem in your group.

Guys, I don’t mean to advertise but for the good of the elementalist community you should take a look at two suggestions I made (link in my sig). Consider them thoroughly and if you think like me that they would give us just what we need to fix our class then please post to support them.

According to Pugs, I run bunker traits. Wait that was cruel.

@OP

I like that! really cool ideas.
I think you should add some movement skill facts for the boss, so that it does not stand still and just whacks.

The cake is a li… Living story.

It seems they are aware of a lot of things.
It also seem like they are working on a lot of things.

Living story

I think they said somewhere that somehow they would allow some sort of skin collection in a wardrobe somewhen in the future.

The ele in gw2 is a druid in wow, but shhhht, it’s a secret.

When they release armor.

Chech my signature for my build thread, go to the Annex section, download the spreadsheet, profits.

They won’t let us have dedicated conjure builds, it’s obvious, it would be counter productive for them!

We should use them when the situation allows it and requires it, so not all the time. Also they are meant to be shared.

What would make us good in dungeons would be a fix to lingering elements and a Fresh fire mechanic. Check my signature, I explain it there, and all support for these ideas is highly appreciated.

Link all chat channels between capitals!
Easy!