Guild Wars 2

eleshazar.6902:

Legendary Ascendant

/15chars

After reading the first few posts, that was exactly what I thought of. +1

OP secretly gets destroyed by thieves and wants them all gone. Seriously, none of your posts indicate you actually play or care about thief. They all just encourage people to either stop playing or delete their thieves, which indicates alternative motivation.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey everyone,

I wanted to just chime in here and make some things clear as they may not be clear.

The “Year of The Ascension” achievement do not reset/clear between seasons. Whatever progress you have carries over to the next season.

If you can’t/don’t get the legendary if a specific year then there will be another way to obtain that specific backpack. I can’t go into any details on that, but you WILL be able to get previous years backpacks in some way.

We also understand the frustration of players and matchmaking this season and will do our best to make some changes for Season 3.

What does that mean for people like OP or others in non specific terms? Suppose, for instance, I get all four tiers of wings, make the pre, finish almost all achievements, and I just need one more pip to get my last division crossed and finish the legendary, but then Jan1, 2017 rolls around. Will that progress (or part of it) be wasted? Will the “another way” account for the work we put in this year?

Hahn.6874:

Simonoly.4352:

The best counter to it is simply cleansing and moving away.

You weren’t prepared to counter a rare thief build.

Please do not rely on a trait that pulls condi’s from you once every 10 seconds. Consider using healing spring or a traited troll unguent. Have a brown bear for a pet swap. That thief’s rotation is very tricky, and would be ruined by one good clutch condi clear.

You can’t complain if you don’t come prepared.

Absolutely this. I’d go an extra step and say if you aren’t prepared for this build you won’t survive any condi build on any class. If you have no stun/immob break or condi clear, you have no business complaining about a condi build killing you.

Asazi.7561:

Minx.7521:

Asazi.7561:

MashMash.1645:

So, when will I be getting a partial refund? Or some sort of compensation?

That was one of the things I PAID MONEY FOR as part of the expansion.

If they don’t start offering partial refunds they’re going to have a lot of chargebacks to deal with from angry customers that are sick of being lied to.

If you or someone else that was looking into the legalities can post follow-ups it would be greatly appreciated. If they abandon what was promised, they’re straight-up lying and expecting to get away with it.

Someone posted this link but I’m still reading it.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/advertising-marketing-internet-rules-road

So here’s the primary interesting part:

…a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:

• mislead consumers and
• affect consumers’ behavior or decisions about the product or service.

In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes, or is likely to cause, is:

• substantial
• not outweighed by other benefits and
• not reasonably avoidable.

Depending on what you bought HoT for, this decision could potentially check all of the boxes. However, unless you literally only bought HoT for new legendary weapons and nothing else, it’d be hard to argue that it is “not outweighed by other benefits.” If you enjoy gliding, raids, elite specs, new story, pre crafting, new skins, guild halls, the three existing (soon to be four) new legendaries, or want legendary armor, HoT at least partially outweighs the lack of new legendaries.

Jesus.3298:

This is so upsetting. I feel like I have been slighted. Paid money for HoT just to have WvW be ruined with these terrible borderlands. Chronomancer is useless and now no new legendary weapons. What was the point of buying HoT?

I’ll give you the other stuff, but Chrono? It is meta in every game mode.

Mike, thank you for the communication. Even though I am personally very disappointed, I appreciate the heads up. Can you share anything that might lessen the blow (not necessarily ship dates, but things being actively worked)? I’d be happy knowing someone is working build templates, LS1 story journal, maybe some elite spec hints if anything is in more than just brainstorm phase etc.

Based on the wiki, the damage should be:

1940*(Power/1000)*(2600/Armor)

As noted below, the wiki shows the wrong skill fact damage. It should be 872 at 1000 power instead of 1940. So, if you run Marauder with Scholar runes and you hit a full glass Ele:

872*(2225/1000)*(2600/1888) = 2672

Apply any modifiers (protection, Havoc Master, Scholar etc.) and that’s what you should deal.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

The wiki is wrong. Its 872 damage at 1000 power.

Right you are. As a matter of fact, 1940 is what the game displays if you have Marauder and Scholar runes equipped in the mists. Seems like someone forgot to change gear to get the right tooltip value. Thanks for pointing that out.

jessiestiles.9437:

If you were thinking honestly. “What are some of the things you find obnoxious?” Reflect that back at your own profession. Daredevil, stealth backstab, run off to stealth heal, 100% stealth builds. There really isn’t a profession that epitomises the word obnoxious more.

:D Actually I do really hate fighting other Thieves. Or more specifically mobility competition. Stealth is a pretty easy mechanic to handle, but in my opinion, constant decap and +1 pressure is the most annoying part of Thief. I love seeing stacks of slower professions on the enemy team.

It is 1s even if the one I would apply was 1/4s. Also, BV isn’t the issue. If you run SoH, Stealing in general is a problem. As for blinding to conceal yourself, Mirror isn’t a reflect or a projectile. It just happens and there’s nothing you can do about it.

Again, the topic is not about me not knowing how to deal with certain skills. I’m just sharing things I believe have annoying mechanics.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Use the headshot to bait out the trait. then proceed as normal

I do, but it either opens me up for a burst/further stuns, or makes me blow a stun break, which is why I said the counterplay is poor.

Yeah we have no stability at all. Stun breaks are great, but if I want to stun a mesmer, why should I also have to use stab or a stun break if I don’t want to CC myself?

These aren’t necessarily things I can’t play around, just things that I find very annoying.

I’ve been climbing the PvP ladder this season (very slowly, since I have limited time), and I don’t have too many complaints so far. There are a few things that get to me, though.

Dragon Hunter
I am honestly fine with the traps, but I can’t stand the undodgeable effects (Hunter’s Verdict, Hunter’s Ward, and Pull). Yes there are other methods to deal with them, but it feels so unintuitive and jarring.

Mesmer
Mirror of Anguish is infuriating. Passive stun breaks are one thing, but one that basically makes you stun yourself is silly. The counterplay options for this are all very poor. Chaining Diversion and double Moa are also annoying, but at least I have options.

Revenant
Nothing specific here, I just dislike them.

That’s about it so far. Do you agree? What are some things you find obnoxious?

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Well, I just happened to recently calculate the base DPS values of the three main-hand weapons that thief can use.

Staff: 595 base DPS
Dagger: 582 base DPS + 3.57 poison TPS
Sword: 548 DPS

In a max might situation, the staff auto beats out the dagger auto only when you have 21,384 effective power. That is…. extremely hard to reach, so as far as autos go, you’ll want to stick with dagger.

Are those calculations purely based on damage coeffs? If so, it’s important to note that when you are alone, staff is actually better thanks to the vulnerability application. I did some testing in the Mists and posted the result here. If your party provides vuln and might, dagger is probably better.

Edit: spelling

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Immediately, you have Skale Venom mislabeled as Skelk Venom and you have the duration of torment taking the duration of bleed instead of torment.

I’ll fix the mislabeling. The sheet used to have far fewer options and bleed and torment duration pulled from the same cell. I’ll fix that too.

Other than that, this reminds me of the impracticality of it all. From the looks of things, it looks like you hybridized viper and sinister, and went with geomancy/agony for additional sigils, and then have an hereto unknown rotation that somehow procs geomancy every 9 seconds, and I have to dig to find precisely what I am supposed to be doing with it.

How is any of it impractical? Geo should be every 10s. I’ll fix that, and add something to indicate if it’s on both sets or just one (in which case it’d be every 20s). The rotation is basically use everything off cooldown, and use weapon skills based on initiative cost. E.×. Death Blossom is used every 4s (kitten filter…) so that it is a sustainable rotation, Backstab every 6s, and if you want both, you get one of each every 10s. AA is every 1.68s, and is altered by quickness uptime and other skills in rotation. I’ll add some notes so it’s more clear.

Fact is, the Berserker Rune vs. Other rune debate is exceedingly simple. Just go by a skill by skill basis: On each skill, which does more: the other rune setup, or the berserker rune setup? Once you have that for the skills in the rotation, debates over.

It’s much easier if you just swap the runes in the sheet and see how it affects the final DPS number. No need to go skill by skill, but if you want to do that, more power to you. The more important thing to consider is that different runes may have different ideal stats and sigils.

Edit: Fixed everything mentioned. Lotus Training had the same duration issue, which was also fixed. I tried to clarify things a bit, and added multiple other tabs with some other rune and sigil combos.

Here you go.

You can make a copy to your own google drive to edit stuff. Please let me know if anything seems off.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

So I’m not actually going to get the math. I’m going to get a picture that asserts that the logic I have is wrong without explaining how.

Nope, you’ll get the whole sheet to analyze my logic and mess with as you please. I’ll post the link when I finish updating a couple of things. I somehow didn’t have Afflicted on there before.

You’ll be happy to know that Afflicted is definitely better than Berserker. Depending on the rest of your gear, it is better than Thorn until you get 4 to 5 stacks of the Thorn bonus.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As of right now, I haven’t seen a shred of math to prove that Berserker Runes are better, anywhere. And all of the math I have done says that they are not better.

:D Give me a bit to check my spreadsheet. I don’t think I put Afflicted runes in it for comparison. The sheet calculates DPS with inputs for every condition related skill, trait, and popular rune/sigil combination with selectable stats, might, alacrity and quickness uptime, a few rotation options, and more!

@Blood Red

Trait Debate One
Dagger Training is better than Trappers Respite for many purposes. If you are alone, though, the might from the trap is very nice.

Trait Debate 4
Brawlers Tenacity or Havoc should be the two primary choices. If you run Impairing Daggers, BT is superior and also allows more healing with Channeled Vigor. Pretty easy choice.

Utilities
Like Respite, Needle Trap is good for the might if you are alone. Otherwise, ID is basically king. Besides the conditions and CC, ID also deals respectable direct damage, which no other option has.

Important!
Despite the tooltips, PP does not multiply your poison duration by 1.33. It is a flat 33%, and will not increase beyond the 100% cap.

Runes and Sigils
The extra damage from Berserker or Thorn runes make them superior to other options that increase condi duration, but run what you like. Malice and Bursting are both good sigil options, but I believe Doom and Geomancy are actually better, which is nice since they are cheap. I’ll have to check the numbers on Earth.

Keviin Snow.5760:

Zodryn it was just like the video , i see a in and out shadow like
i went back afew time , even with a my warrior / sentel gears which have 42k hp
still got kill in second without able to see who it was
and my guess its a thief and no i did not notice his class , it was a guess
i had fought thief and i know how they stealth in and out
but nothing like this the pass 2 days in wvw
again it was a guess , cuz thief is the only class with many stealth
and can hit that quick but again i had fought many thief in the pass and Nothing like this , until i found this video on youtube , and it was the same way

In that case, it could honestly be any class hacking. Not much you can do unless you can manage to right click them and report.

Asrat.2645:

But that is my very point: the class is ok..in some way. We will be viable after the op stuff gets shut down. But i dont like the way we are viable. I do not want to rotate, to +1, to support people who are too stupid to win their own fights.
I dont want to be op or completely unbeatable, but I want to be able to kill every player who opposes me on a equal skill level. more so: as long as I dont mess up, the odds should be on my side. Cause that is why I started playing this class in the first place: high risk, hard to master, but extremely strong in 1v1 if played right.

You can’t have what you want on Thief. The problem is the nature of the class requires a higher skill level to succeed 1v1, and the only way to change that is

1. make us basically a Revenant (more stayimg power for 1v1)
2. give us so much burst that everyone hates our guts again

Both will lead to the nerf bat. Currently you can 1v1 many other classes. It just requires more skill (which the ceiling allows for), and it’s usually not a wise choice since it wastes time.

Now that I’ve seen a few other people mention it, Hugh, are gliders a possibilty? Obviously non-HoT accounts would either need access on just this map, or the map would need an alternative for them. Or I suppose it could just be a perk of having HoT, since it isn’t ranked. I would anticipate salt if that were the case, though.

We can disengage and chase easily enough without it (dash, shadow shot, stealth, steal, shadowstep etc.). It would mostly hurt our rotating prowess, but then you’re looking at Rev which would have superior mobility, sustain, support, and damage. Why do we need our stuff taken away so we can be more useful?

Edit: We already have a pretty heavy trade off. We’re very squishy.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Remove/adjust the breakable panels at A and C point or Add second layer under the hole so players dont die, but still lose time for falling into them
  • Which do you like better?

I think the panels are a unique feature and should stay, just less annoying.

• Glass Panels only break from cannon fire
  • What do we think about this suggestion?

Maybe, but it makes fighters dependant on the Hammer for panel plays, and may not be necessary if there is a safety layer.

• Add multiple portals to get to and from the skyhammer platform
  • Does this have to be in both places: in center of map and skyhammer platform or just the skyhammer platform?

Having one way portals closer to A and C from skyhammer would be interesting (maybe it pops you out on the safety layer below the panels). You could use the skyhammer platform as a shortcut to side nodes, increasing traffic to the platform.

• Take away the ability to die from falling damage
  • Do we want to completely remove the ability to die from falling damage or make it only in very specific places?

Perhaps only from skyhammer platform, but then I support gliding or some alternative for recovering from that fall, similar to A and C panel measures.

• Adjust middle point high ground
  • Do we want to completely remove this because of gameplay/camera problems or adjust it as it creates good gameplay but messes with camera

I like it there, but not the camera/los issues.

• Remove Skyhammer from Unranked
  • Do we think the map simply can’t be altered to stay in Unranked?

You could add a check mark for it like with conquest/stronghold if necessary. Maybe eventually it could become a different game type entirely…

Keviin Snow.5760:

pass few days in wvw
i’ve been kill by a thief , its happen so fast that i could not catch a name within 1 or 2 second
so i did a look up on youtube and found the same thing
i never play thief before so can someone tell me
can thief do that ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMDsWeFZg_8

There is a big difference between that video (which is a hacker) and just being killed really fast. You said it was a thief and you didn’t have time to catch the name, so presumably you saw him, noticed his class and maybe a glimpse of his name (should actually show a title not a name in WvW).

Thieves can kill very quickly. Possibly under a second depending on their build and yours. They can also stealth. The question is, did you get killed without ever seeing anything (as in the video), or did he just stealth and backstab?

khani.4786:

Zodryn.4216:

Since it’s already kind of an odd map, why not enable gliding? Suddenly getting knocked off the hammer isn’t as horrible, and you could glide from mid to A or C.

Additionally, Skyhammer damage could be reduced, and you could add a platform under the holes at A and C so you’re still punished for falling through (lost time), but you can ran back up to the point from there.

While I think adding gliding would be fantastic, it would make it so that those folks without HoT would be at a severe disadvantage on this map. Any mechanics on PvP maps needs to be doable by anyone from F2P to expansion owners.

Didn’t think about that…maybe it could be a teaser for F2P players. The only place they can glide in game without HoT. Otherwise yeah, it would be a problem.

Since it’s already kind of an odd map, why not enable gliding? Suddenly getting knocked off the hammer isn’t as horrible, and you could glide from mid to A or C.

Additionally, Skyhammer damage could be reduced, and you could add a platform under the holes at A and C so you’re still punished for falling through (lost time), but you can ran back up to the point from there.

Daredevil
Run Devil Run ~ Girls’ Generation

Thief
Spies ~ Coldplay

PvP in General
Allies ~ MUTEMATH

Also, there’s one line in Spirit of the Radio by Rush that is just unusually perfect for a certain class. I’ll let you find it if you don’t already know what I’m talking about.

Either

A) OP had 7 points, gained 1, and the game glitched and reset her to 5.

B) OP had 7 points, gained 1, accidentally spent 3 on a different line, leaving her with 5.

C) OP had 4 points, gained 1, and thinking the 5/5 mastery required 5 points, is confused why she needs 3 more.

In any of the above scenarios, the line should remain greyed until you have the points to train the last mastery, so that part at least isn’t bugged. You may be able to use gw2efficiency to check how many points you should have total, and compare to how much you’ve already spent to see if it adds up.

Edit: go to Achievements in gw2efficiency, Show: Finished, Masteries Only: Yes. It will show a green number for all of the points you have in each section. Then look at your mastery lines to see what you’ve spent. Should be a very quick and easy check.

ProtoGunner.4953:

I am happy a new player comes and thinks positive about those maps. I also think they are something I never saw in an MMO. There are some single player games like the Metroid Prime series which have huge complex and convoluted worlds. I suggest these series to everyone, you can buy them on Wii as a collection – great series.

I like you.

I completely agree with OP, the maps are great. Many people I think just focus on the events and can’t be bothered to explore and actually enjoy everything. Metroid is a great comparison, and I highly recommend you try out the Prime series if you like the HoT maps and mastery progression.

You’re joking, right? 5v5 teamfights are just a mess of AoE and crazy effects. 1v1 and 2v2 fights are much more skill based and interesting. Conquest was probably the only mode to prevent fracturing the player base (LoL actually deleted a game mode/map recently for this reason). Also, if they allowed capping when you have more people on a point it would totally screw up point defending and invalidate a large number of builds and key strategies.

PvP has issues, but none of your suggestions are even remotely helpful.

Edit: I’m really curious what class you play.

Anomaly.7612:

Yeah, once I have the money I’m going to drop close to $700 on this game to deck out my Thief in ascended and legendary gear. Doing WvW in exo’s and ascended trinks is just torture.

Holy cow. If you can’t win when at a 2-5% disadvantage, you really shouldn’t waste that much money for such a small gain. I run exotics with asc trinkets for 5 out of my 6 builds, I usually forget food and utilities, and I do just fine.

For $700 you could get some great PC upgrades, or other games/consoles, or any number of other things you may really like. Why use it to get a tiny % advantage in one mode of a game? You can get asc just playing the game anyway.

Add some smart AI which actively and dynamically counters what people do so people need to think what they do instead of just doing some pre-recorded rotation. Add some real strategy by bringing more unique and fun roles than just dps only.

That is a fine idea, but let me give you an example. In Skyward Sword, a certain boss will block or intercept all of your attacks based on the way you hold your sword. He dynamically counters what you do. You can try forever and never hit him. To beat him, you must hold you sword so that it seems you would swing one way, then swing a different direction to fool him.

This was a very cool mechanic when I first played the game. Like any AI mechanic, though, once you know how it works, you can account for it and the fight is far easier. Knowledge is power.

All you can really do is make mechanics more complex and require fewer mistakes to succeed. Or you can make mechanics that are totally unpredictable and unfair, but then it’s more about luck than skill.

I agree with Xiahou and Shadow. There is one thing you could have done differently though. If your home isn’t contested and the DH wasn’t at mid, you can bet he was camping far. No need to waste time checking. Even if you could 1v1 him, just leave him be and support the teamfight. If you win that, then your team has the advantage and you have many more options.

Loboling.5293:

I responded in the META thread in the pvp section, but I can hold points. 1v1 I can beat necros easy without losing the point, only rev and dh can force me off the point and get the cap, but if I have enough time I can wear them down. (not usually what I do though) Druid, scrapper, can often decap a point from me, but I can do the same for them, the pressure thieves put out is too much to sustain without leaving the point with the lack of tanky amulets. I’m sure there may be some druid cleric builds that could hold a point, but I don’t ever see that. I find both scrapper and druid can be pressured off the point. (helps that engineer is my second most played profession, after ele and before thief) Druid just has no pressure that isn’t easy to avoid.

What’s your build? I can 1v1 alright, but some classes are too tanky for the amount of pressure I bring, and I’m not gonna fight for 2 minutes on point because that’s not my job.

Did they break it? It was working fine the last time I was online.

I started using DD as soon as I unlocked it. Staff Autos are strong enough that you can get away with it, and Vault is perfect for a number of HoT enemies (pocket raptors, for example). Also, it barely takes any time to get the HPs you need for the spec. I did it before the HP requirement nerf and it still went really quick.

Vanilla Thief, zerk, P/P, signets. You have extremely predictable burst and nothing else. You will die to a light breeze and contribute less than a single DH trap. Improve yourself and change your build before blaming match making.

Artaz.3819:

Note, Super Speed is +100% which means any movement impairing condition applied has no effect in combat.

That’s not exactly true. If you are in combat with superspeed, you have 400 movement speed. If you get chilled, you now have +100%-66%=34% bonus, or 268 movement speed. Sure, that’s still plenty fast (equivalent to swiftness), but chill is still technically slowing you down.

SB 1 is decent for providing some pressure in group fights, 5 is great for mobility. 2 is extremely slow, 3 is awkward, and 4 deals pitiful poison damage.

Straegen.2938:

I notice virtually no difference in combat with this trait activated.

Keep in mind if you have no movement buffs and are out of combat, you have 300 ms. If you then Steal to someone, which stealths you and places you in combat, you will still have 300 ms (200*1.5). Supposing you got swiftness on Steal, when you exit stealth, you will have 266 ms (200*1.33). I could easily see how one would notice little or no difference.

Ok, I did some timed runs in the mists. Here are the results:

Out of Combat

• No buffs – kitten (4 and 0.5s…)
• Signet – 3.6s
• Swiftness – 3.3s
• Stealth – 3.3s

Allowing for a small margin of error, those values correspond almost exactly to 25% and 33% increases. Seems to be working fine OoC.

In Combat

• No buffs – 5.5s
• Signet – 4.4s
• Swiftness – 4.1s
• Stealth – 3.7s

Again, those are almost exactly what I would expect to see for 25%, 33%, and 50% increases. Working as intended here as well.

Ok, so Potent Poison is very interesting…

Tooltips:
All skills that apply poison have 33% longer duration, but, it changes the actual duration of the skill itself. For example, Spider Venom has its duration changed from 6s to 8s. You can then increase that by up to 100%, resulting in a max duration of 16s! This is the way Chemical Rounds works for Engi on pistol skills. This is backed up by the fact that Potent Poison does not alter the tooltip of Dagger Training, since it is an on-hit effect, and not a skill.

Functionality:
When using a skill that deals poison, in is increased by a flat 33%, capped at 100%.

So…it’s possible that it is intended to work like Chemical Rounds, but it currently does not. That or every single tooltip that references poison is wrong.

Good point Dusk, but even when I blow all of my endurance and init on whirling through fire fields it does not make enough of a difference to justify any stat change. Even with 100% duration, it’s only 2s of burning per whirl (assuming the projectiles even hit), which is roughly on par with a proc of Dagger Training (4s poison with 33% extra damage). It’s a nice bonus when you dodge, but it’s nowhere close to replacing AA damage.

If you have enough quickness uptime, Backstab, AA, Lotus is superior to a DB rotation (edit: quickness doesn’t matter, BS>DB), at which point Sinister is superior to Viper since you don’t need as much flat duration. They are in the same ball park though, so it’s not like Viper is invalidated.

After more research, Berserker rune is superior to Thorn if you have 3 or less Thorn stacks, Thorn is better after 4 stacks. They are pretty close in any case so this is again a matter of preference. Thorn has a more even damage spread (50/50 condi/power) while Zerk is weighted more towards power (45/55 ish). At least some Viper is desirable if you choose Zerk since you want to hit the poison cap. I need to test this, but I believe Potent Poison is multiplicative duration, making the ideal flat duration 50% (150%*1.33=200%).

Havoc is superior to BT by a reasonable margin (it has a much larger impact than Zerk vs Thorn), especially with a Backstab rotation. I still like BT though.

As ButterPeanut mention, Viper with Zerk runes is BiS for Engi, so that’s a safe bet, but there are certainly other options. There are many variables involved that make one set slightly better or worse than another, so try not to worry about it too much. Just please, don’t use Sigil of Blight.

Here’s a simple version of the math:

• Assume Bursting is roughly a 5% damage increase for all conditions (not all conditions scale 1:1 with condi damage)
• Since you have 166% duration already, a 20% increase to bleed duration is an effective 12% DPS increase to bleed only
• For 12% bleed to account for an overall 5% DPS increase, bleeding needs to be at least 41.67% of your total condi DPS

Using DB And Lotus, bleeding is somewhere around 30% of your total condi damage, and therefore Agony is worse. It will probably be better if you drop ID and Skelk for Needle Trap and Caltrops, but even then Bursting is competitive.

Looks pretty nice. I used to use wurm runes a lot after the June 26 patch. I’d take Flanking Strikes over TotC though. You already have swiftness from Dash and perma fury in CS. One might stack is not worth more than an extra Haste.

Yeah the build link is a relic from when the template didn’t have stat selection, so it isn’t accurate. Poison is overcapped because flat duration is beneficial to a point for bleed and torment, while the Thorn 6 bonus makes it superior to any other option* besides Zerk runes. A Backstab rotation would probably benefit more from Zerk runes, I just didn’t bother switching to them.

I’ll make the power field update with stat and rune selection so you can easily see how Zerk and Thorn compare. You can swap it now if you want, but it will only auto update condition related stuff.

*Edit: As an example, Trapper/Nightmare result in much less poison overcap, and 25% more flat duration, but it is a DPS Loss due to slightly lower condi damage and the loss of Thorn 6.

Edit 2: The build you posted is good, but the agony sigil is not as good as bursting. Even if DB is in your rotation, most of your damage comes from poison, and you’ll get more mileage out of the 6% condi damage boost. Havoc is a good choice. I don’t have power % mods in the template yet, but I’ll add them.

I’ll test it later to see what’s going on then.

ButterPeanut, the argument is not just about the power from dagger autos, but that the poison on AA 3 is competitive with the bleed from DB and the mod/condis from Lotus. With quickness and the aftercast reduction, I believe they are probably pretty close. You can also run Sinister with Orr or Thorn runes for higher condi damage than Viper since you only worry about one condition. Overall, you should still have plenty of condi output.

Edit: upon extensive calculations (will post shortly), here is what I found:

• Pure AA DPS is almost exactly the same as AA+DB+Lotus if you switch from viper to sinister and have 100% quickness uptime
• If you have 0 quickness, AA only is a 3.5k DPS loss
• With 100% quickness, Backstab and Lotus still improve DPS over pure AA, while DB decreases it
• There is no scenario where best DPS Is AA only

Edit 2: Calculations. Feel free to make a copy if you want to edit the spreadsheet. Turquoise fields are user input. I kinda shoehorned the power DPS stuff in really quick, so the power stat doesn’t auto update based on stat choice, and there are a few other incomplete things.

Edit: Somehow double posted when I edited my previous post. Keep in mind also that besides having better healing than mug, LV also gives the group might and some extra damage.