Guild Wars 2

Make a Norn Thief and go to the mists. You can test any animations you like. I feel like Norn are too slugish, but maybe the quick animations and perma swiftness would help. Otherwise Asura all the way.

Edit: lol I hit reply instead of edit on the OP. Smartphone screens…

I’ll add those ideas to the OP. Lotus definitely seems like it should have poison.

Kallist.5917:

If they really want to improve Conditions, they also need to look at the Pistol. 1 could use a bit of a buff to make it worth using, as it stands right now, I dont even use my normal auto attack, at all. Its not worth the time it takes to fire the thing.

The auto is actually pretty good. I think the problem is sneak attack requires stealth, gated by both initiative and reveal, and shadow strike must be used in melee, but teleports you far from your target. The auto would be an ok filler if the others were easier to rotate in. Not sure how to fix that. Maybe make shadow strike usable as a gap closer and opener ala infiltrators strike?

I knew that would be the main concern, but I don’t feel like it’s much of a problem. Venoms are primarily strong because of burst potential. Shaving 8s (24s vs 32s) won’t make that burst stronger, just make it available often. It won’t affect players who get melted by the first burst, or players with heavy condi cleanse. It will affect bunkers who survive the first burst and raid bosses, which are both good things.

Edit: for that matter, improv can give you two full rounds, yet people aren’t complaining about improv venom thieves. I don’t think anyone would even notice.

I feel like we could use a bit of a boost to give us more competitive condition DPS for raids. Here is what I’d like to see.

Note: we have other issues and things that need tweaking, but i’m only focusing on conditions for this topic.

Dagger Training:
Increase duration to 3s. All skills that involve daggers count as dagger attacks (Dagger Storm, Impairing Daggers, Distracting Daggers, Impaling Lotus).

Dancing Dagger:
Add 1 stack of torment for 3s.

Choking Gas:
Increase stack duration to 3s and field duration to 5s.

Venoms:
Decrease cooldown to 30s, remove cast time from Skelk and Basilisk Venom.

Impaling Lotus:
Add a stack of poison for 6s or replace the bleed with poison.

Vital Shot/Sneak Attack:
Increase bleed duration to 5s.

Thoughts?

Chemical rounds is functionally multiplicitave because it changes the pistol skills themselves. The equivalent would be having potent poison increase poison duration on dagger skills, which would then multiply with extra duration, but do nothing for our utilities, steal, and combos, which is where we get most of our poison. I’m not sure if there’s a way to have it boost our poison baseline, but it would be cool.

Ghotistyx.6942:

CG got its change the exact same update that allowed conditions to stack. It went from 3s stacking duration straight to 2s stacking intensity. The public didn’t have the chance to play with it in-between iterations. Keep in mind the effect to cost ratio.

Correct, and when that happened, this forum rolled their eyes because the reason for the nerf was that it was apparently melting practice golems. We don’t need to play with that iteration to know how it would perform. 6 consistent stacks instead of 4 would not melt anything, but it would at least help it be a more viable damage option.

I did some testing, and with FULL might stacks, 100% poison duration, 33% bonus from potent poison, bursting sigil, and carrion ammy, it took 18 seconds to kill a golem spamming CG. It took 13 without any might on dagger autos using rabid (to avoid power). It took me 20s with no might pistol autos on rabid gear! That means blowing all of your initiative on CG with max might and crazy poison buffs is comparable to just using a pistol auto with no power gear, and worse than dagger autos…there’s your effect to cost ratio for you.

It depends. If there are ads, players with cleave may accidentally waste charges, resulting in poor dps. If you want to intentionally spread the damage, caltrops and traps have higher damage potential. If you want single target dps though, 30 stacks (6 stacks x 5 people) of poison for 12 out every 32 seconds equates to an average of 11.25 consistent stacks, which can’t really be beat.

Ghotistyx.6942:

anything CG related

Iirc CG used to have both an extra second duration, and perhaps an extra tick off application. That changes drastically once you add in 100% poison duration.

CG used to not Reveal the Thief that’s true, but that was a separate change (it happened earlier than lowering the duration of CG). The lowering of duration was the exact same patch that poison started stacking. This is where the issues happened. Downed players were CG bait as multiple allies tried to rez and ended getting all of them stuck with 10+ stacks. Even if allies didn’t try for the rez, the downed player would start eating all that poison and was essentially done before they had a chance. This also want just a pvp problem. Multiple SB Thieves (like on wvw) could guarantee players would not be surviving a poison burst, taking them from 100-0 and through downed state. CG became a legitimate damage threat once poison could stack when before it was more anti heal utility. CG still had a lot of potential, but it’s not quite as crazy as it could’ve been.

100% duration allows you to get 4 stacks consistently. If it wasn’t nerfed on June 23rd, it would have been 6 stacks consistently. Dagger auto can already do that and more at no initiative cost, and saying that it’s a problem because downed players have to eat it is like saying any DPS in the game is a problem because you can cleave downed players to death. Nobody was going around “melting” people post June 23rd with CG. It’s just used to prevent ressing, which is independent of how many stacks are on the player. Even with 3s per stack and 5s field duration, it would still barely compete with other options.

Kallist.5917:

Going to have to agree with Ghotistyx, Poisons can be very pwoerful if you spec a bit for them. IMO, its the fact that we can spam it causing the damage tic’s to stacks while also crippling your opponents ability to heal. Overall I like the build, I use something similar to deal with groups in PVE.

As a condi thief, poison is easy to apply, so they will always have -33% healing anyway. As far as damage, CG gives you 2 consistent stacks, or 4 if you run 100% bonus poison duration. That’s if you use it every chance you get (once every 4 seconds), using all of your initiative. Dagger auto can keep up 6 stacks (or roughly 9 if running dagger training) without using any initiative. I’d say a CG buff wouldn’t hurt. Poison is strong. CG is mediocre (but still fun, which is why I use it).

Ghotistyx.6942:

Choking Gas was literally melting practice golems. The extra poison duration allowed for 3 consistent stacks instead of 2. Spamming CG would make people actually have to condi cleanse if they stood perfectly still in your poison fields, which is why it’s been reduced to current levels. It still hits, but now it’s more difficult to make people even notice that you did anything. You have to run 100% poison duration, potent poison, blow all of you dodges for whirl finishers, and hope enemies stay in the field to make the damage respectable.

Ftfy.

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Zodryn.4216:

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Consider running Runes of the Thorn and focusing on poison instead. You don’t have to make any other changes and you should end up dealing more damage.

Thanks, I’ll give it a shot.

I’ve been doing this in PvE. I run SB D/D but I camp in SB a lot. Whirl through choking gas with spider venom for maximum fun. I do feel like choking gas should last longer though.

Ah yes, I remember when choking gas had five pulses instead of four. And I think the duration of each pulse was a second longer than it is now.

But Anet decided in their infinite wisdom that the extra few seconds of poison was OP

The short bow still has potential though, as you noted. I’m having fun with it, especially with the weapon-swapping sigils equipped. Truth be told, short bow should already have some kind of condition on the auto attack, like 1 second of poison or something. Or at least give us a trait that makes the conditions on short bow longer/better. But there are ways around it with venoms, sigils, etc.

Yeah, I feel like I have to work very hard for my dps compared to zerk. It’s both fun and frustrating. Increasing the poison duration on choking gas and dagger training to 3s would be a very nice improvement. Venoms also should have a lower cooldown. 30s seems about right.

Two can play at that game! Not as neon, but I’ve got swag to make up for it.

Here are two of my five sets.

As an Asura, I’m inclined to take things literally. Coupled with my diminutive stature, many things go over my head…

that baby stealing dingo.7216:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Consider running Runes of the Thorn and focusing on poison instead. You don’t have to make any other changes and you should end up dealing more damage.

Thanks, I’ll give it a shot.

I’ve been doing this in PvE. I run SB D/D but I camp in SB a lot. Whirl through choking gas with spider venom for maximum fun. I do feel like choking gas should last longer though.

Majic.4801:

But is it fun?

That is, after all, how ArenaNet measures success.

I think a big problem is that Anet gives us a choice on how we progress. In Metroid, if I want the grapple beam, I beat a specific boss. To get to that boss I have to get other power ups from other places and play through chunks of the game. In HoT, if I want updrafts I get experience. I could beat challenges, do adventures, progress throught the story, help others etc. I could also grind my brains out doing one thing. It’s the equivalent of Nintendo letting you buy every upgrade from a shop in Zelda, and players farming grass for hours to buy everything instead of actually playing the game. Is it fun? That’s up to you, because Anet gave you a choice.

Swift.1930:

Zodryn.4216:

In less than three weeks, I’ve enjoyed exploring the new maps, testing different builds with the new specs, doing a minimal amount of events, making some easy money off people who have to have everything now, and working on a few achievements. I haven’t really experienced any stress or burnout thus far, and I don’t intend to.

Don’t make things a grind. Play for fun and do what you enjoy. And change things up. Even if what you enjoy is map meta events, running them all day every day is bound to get boring.

I’d say the worst thing is that masteries are a meta-event grind. You simply can’t get them by farming mobs (dare you to try), and unfortunately you can’t choose to level HoT masteries while playing vanilla maps doing random other things to mix up gameplay… plus mastery XP scales pretty insanely per level. So if you want to get anywhere with collections/masteries/HoT progress, you really do have to be on the maps doing meta-events 24/7… =/

I did try. As I mentioned, I’ve done a minimal amount of events (read: less than ten in three weeks), and I have all the masteries I need at the moment, and bladed armor. Three more and the only ones I’ll have left are basically fluff masteries. Events are actually just average experience sources. I get plenty from helping people with HP challenges, occaisional mob farming, accidentally tagging events as I wander, story rewards, etc.

Am I rank 161? No. But who cares? I have all I need to fully explore the maps, work on map vendor stuff and enjoy myself, and the rest will come eventually. If it takes me six months to get to 161, but I am still playing and having fun, doesn’t that beat the guy who got 161 in three weeks and quit because he got burned out on grinding?

Champs can usually be duo’d, and with 3-5 they’re quite easy. I often run into others at HPs when I’m doing them for daily xp. All other HPs are easy to solo. Try asking map chat, people frequently run champs for the xp. You may have better luck than LFG.

Edit: didn’t notice you said you tried map chat. Have you tried asking guildies? If you can’t make it happen, move on to soloable HPs and try again later.

In less than three weeks, I’ve enjoyed exploring the new maps, testing different builds with the new specs, doing a minimal amount of events, making some easy money off people who have to have everything now, and working on a few achievements. I haven’t really experienced any stress or burnout thus far, and I don’t intend to.

Don’t make things a grind. Play for fun and do what you enjoy. And change things up. Even if what you enjoy is map meta events, running them all day every day is bound to get boring.

The second elite spec should provide a few new skills. I like to believe in the freedom of Mesmers to use clones as actual diversions, so here is what I want to see:

Illusion of Integrity: Your clones briefly gain your boons, health, condis etc., effectively making you seem like a clone yourself.

Glittering Prizes: Shatter your Illusion of Integrity (revert clones to normal, doesn’t destroy them) to gain every boon. Boon duration is affected by how much longer Illusion of Integrity would have lasted.

Endless Compromises: Shatter your Illusion of Integrity (revert clones to normal, doesn’t destroy them) to grant enemies a random condition for each boon they have. Condition duration is affected by how much longer Illusion of Integrity would have lasted.

RedSpectrum.1975:

I smell a gunslinger

Quickness isn’t even that great for P/P. You just run out of initiative faster and make it easier to dodge a whole unload.

So you want to nerf our survivability to give us more quickness. We already have enough quickness for a single fight, the CD is just high. We already have perma swiftness and are the most mobile class with ports etc. We don’t have enough health or other forms of damage mitigation to justify a stealth/dodge nerf. What is motivating this request?

Dash is the same speed as every other dodge. It shouldn’t be slower. Please don’t make it a straight line. It’s such a great animation as is.

TGI FRIDAY.6275:

This wasn’t the best expansion despite the pretty good first day. If you don’t enjoy it, move on. I still enjoy PvP, as hard as that is to believe, and I haven’t even bought HoT yet. From what I hear, Anet ruined WvW. Take a break and find something else to do. Come back when everything is, HOPEFULLY, better.

My understanding is the population tanked due to new content (HoT and Halloween) combined with the new map people haven’t learned yet. Once people get their fill of HoT and learn the new map I think WvW will be fine. And how can you say HoT isn’t a good expansion when you haven’t even played it?

You can do a lot even with basic gliding. Train bouncing mushrooms next. What do you like to do in other games? I love exploring, so I unlocked gliding first thing and tried to figure out how to get all of the hero points (you can get all but one in VB with only gliding). Bouncing mushrooms and updrafts made VB feel like a new map. There’s a ton to find and explore, so it can understandably be a bit much, but try and pick something and stick to it (hero points, story, vistas, adventures etc). I haven’t played a ton, so I’m only mastery rank 7 right now, but I know my way around the first two maps very well.

harold.3526:

4 gold per boss, and one raid will have multiple bosses

4g per boss per week.

1-3g per path per day. There are 26 paths.

You did, however, criticize my armor choice to the point where you pity any group I play with because I apparently won’t contribute enough. I get that enrage timers and dps are important. That’s why I want a comparison, and why I posted my numbers.

Thief only has an F1 and F2 ability, and they typically stay in one weapon set during fights. Because of this, thief is MUCH easier to control compared to other classes with F1-5 and their crazy piano playing. Make thief harder to play by giving them an F3 so they need to press more buttons. You could make it toggle dodge types or something.

Dahkeus.8243:

Not sure who here thinks that toughness is the biggest factor, because that hasn’t been said at all.

However, it is a factor. That’s a fact.

It also is in conjunction with other factors, such as damage and proximity. If you’re playing a thief, you already have the proximity factor to your disadvantage.

If you want to survive a hit, that’s fine. You have two options for that: Vitality and Toughness. Vitality totally makes sense for a thief, since you’re already starting out with the lowest health pool of all profession (shared with Guard and Ele).

Toughness, on the other hand, is just counter-intuitive to that, particularly if you decide to stack a lot of it. You’re trading off the likeliness of surviving damage to an increased likeliness of taking damage.

Not only will dire further decrease your damage potential to the group by leaving you with only 1 damage stat on a class and spec that’s already relatively low dps to begin with, but you’re also doing it in a way that will increase the likeliness of you taking damage.

Now, you’ve decided that you want to gamble on what that % of increase is, just because there’s no proven, concrete answer behind that. Even if that was a safe gamble, you’re still really hampering a build that’s already in a weak place.

You’ve made your choice…but I feel sorry for your raid group, as they’ll have to pick up slack due to your build and gear choices.

I asked for advice primarily on my dps with a small amount of dire gear, so no I don’t have only one damaging stat. I have full sinister weapons and trinkets. I have not “made my choice” yet, and I don’t intend to burden my fractal/raid group. I posted my expected dps (not including direct damage) so I could compare with popular condi builds. Give me numbers that prove my dps will be comparatively poor and I’ll look at some other gear or a different build. And since when is thief a low dps class?

Nobody said toughness was the biggest factor in aggro directly, but they did say my small toughness boost would give me aggro 100% of the time guaranteed. That is closer to saying toughness is the only factor. Also, you don’t know what the raid meta will be like. Teams may take a bunker, in which case it makes little difference. Or aggro may be totally different for some bosses. Aggro still really wasn’t the point of the thread.

4g per week for an hour long organized effort seems…like the reason they nerfed dungeon rewards. It would really look awful if you could still get 1g for a 10 minute dungeon run. Maybe the drops will be great, but who knows?

Dovienya.6597:

I’ve played fights where one person claims “the aggro was on me the whole time because X Y or Z” where its confirmation bias. sometimes times the aggro was not on that person most of the time, it only felt that way to them.

Toughness DOES factor in to aggro, but not as much as people tend to think.

I asked a developer how aggro mechanics work and this was my answer, whether its a correct answer or not is up for grabs. Anyway here it is:

The first thing they said is that:

aggro mechanics are looser and less specified than people tend to believe.

aggro in most fight has to do with proximity- some the closest or furthest target, respectively. Proximity changes- as in one person moves closer or further away suddenly.

Most recent/most damage.

Then- Toughness.

If multiple people are all in the same range and same similar gear- then changes in damage spikes are more likely to draw aggro. damage spikes probably why the ele may get seized on, bladex ^

seems reasonable that if everyone in the party except one guy is wearing zerk gear and the last guy is wearing rabid/knights/whatevertoughness- in a fight like lupi he would seize on the one in toughness gear based on the mechanics described- at least a good percentage of the time.

don’t know if that’s the right answer or not- or even what part of the game the guy works on. but it seems about right to me. who knows- may be i’m experiencing confirmation bias also.

That seems reasonable and basically matches the wiki. Maybe everyone thinks toughness is the biggest factor because all other factors are usually equal (stack on the boss, everyone in zerk, everyone deals high dps). Maybe in raids we’ll see aggro go to the highest healing, most boons or something else. It could be really interesting.

Anyway, I’ll try dire armor, but I may switch to carrion or sinister. I just prefer not to be one shot if I miss a dodge.

randomguy.1283:

Zodryn.4216:

randomguy.1283:

Zodryn.4216:

harold.3526:

Zodryn.4216:

but I’m already looking at using a bit of dire for the reason stated in the OP

Please, no toughness gear you will get aggro, unless you want to get almost 100% aggro uptime and you have 100% sure you will dodge/survive almost everything, or you will just keep dieing and make your teammates life harder.

There is no proof toughness has anything to do with aggro.

Actually most bosses are definitely made to aggro on the player with the most toughess, and with my understanding this is true for ALL bosses in the upcoming raids.

Again, I haven’t found any evidence that that is true for current content. People have found the opposite is true sometimes, and even the wiki says it is player speculation based on other MMOs. It may be true for raids, but won’t there likely be someone else with more toughness than me (will need to see how the raid meta works out)? I’m not even in full dire. A heavy barely needs any toughness to match my level of armor.

Again, is it absolutely true for most bosses, lupicus will ALWAYS favor the player with the most toughness. Some bosses have different ways though, such as mai trin targetting the farthest player from her, etc.

Everything I’ve read on lupi says he favors either glassy characters, high dps, or it’s random. It’s been awhile though, so maybe that’s changed? If you can provide any solid evidence that toughness is the biggest deciding factor, I will gladly accept it. Either way, my question was more about if the lost power/precision would make much of a difference. With good timing, I can handle aggro.

randomguy.1283:

Zodryn.4216:

harold.3526:

Zodryn.4216:

but I’m already looking at using a bit of dire for the reason stated in the OP

Please, no toughness gear you will get aggro, unless you want to get almost 100% aggro uptime and you have 100% sure you will dodge/survive almost everything, or you will just keep dieing and make your teammates life harder.

There is no proof toughness has anything to do with aggro.

Actually most bosses are definitely made to aggro on the player with the most toughess, and with my understanding this is true for ALL bosses in the upcoming raids.

Again, I haven’t found any evidence that that is true for current content. People have found the opposite is true sometimes, and even the wiki says it is player speculation based on other MMOs. It may be true for raids, but won’t there likely be someone else with more toughness than me (will need to see how the raid meta works out)? I’m not even in full dire. A heavy barely needs any toughness to match my level of armor.

harold.3526:

Zodryn.4216:

but I’m already looking at using a bit of dire for the reason stated in the OP

Please, no toughness gear you will get aggro, unless you want to get almost 100% aggro uptime and you have 100% sure you will dodge/survive almost everything, or you will just keep dieing and make your teammates life harder.

There is no proof toughness has anything to do with aggro.

Does anyone have rough numbers on engi and ranger dps? I don’t know my direct damage numbers, but I should consistently have 10 stacks of bleeding, 3 stacks of torment, and 25 stacks of poison average. With buffs, max corruption stacks, and might, I’ll have 3275 condi damage plus 10% damage from lotus training and 33% bonus to poison. That’s 2403/s bleeding, 539-1078/s torment, 8221/s poison. Poison is more than 2/3 of my damage.

After 10 seconds, thorn will match berserker runes for condi damage (5% of 2000 is 100, and I get 50 bonus on a 10s cd). Berserker would still boost direct damage more, but I’m already looking at using a bit of dire for the reason stated in the OP, so I’m not trying to min/max power. And again, with those runes I’ll have 100% poison, and I can also have 30% duration for other condis (food and oil). I know viper is considered the best for engi/ranger, but for this specific build I’m not sure.

Edit: does anyone know how things like sigil of bursting and berserker runes work in relation to might, corruption, food etc? Does they boost those stat increases by 5-6%? If so, thorn needs 20s to match berserker.

That’s nothing. I saw a thief use SR to resurrect a dead player in the middle of a swarm of mordrem. No class should be able to help others like that. Give mordrem perma pulsing reveal. Should fix the issue.

Hey all, I want to get into fractals more (and eventually raids), and I’d like some advice on a few things. I play thief btw.

1. I want to run condi. I plan on using thorn runes for the 6 bonus, and they give 100% poison duration with food and potent poison. Is viper worth it for bleeds and torment, or should I stick to sinister for higher ticks since poison is capped?
2. Will it make much difference if I run dire armor with sinister trinkets? Death blossom doesn’t scale well with damage anyway, and backstab applies no condis.
3. How does condi thief compare to ranger and engi dps? Venomshare seems strong on paper, but maybe sustained damage is weaker than other classes?

Burtnik.5218:

MarauderShields.6830:

Sylent.3165:

4. How to beat UA. Retaliation works wonders, as does blocks, and a simple double dodge will make nearly all a revenants damage go bye bye. You then have 12 seconds to take them down, watch for there heal, lay off for 3 seconds and finish them.

Whenever someone tells you to double-dodge an attack that has a 12 sec cooldown you know he’s full of …

How you dodge rapid fire in open field? And what else you really have to dodge from revenant?

Rapid fire: block, line of sight, move out of range, reflect, projectile destroy, stun/interrupt.

The only one of those things that affects UA is block, but shiro can negate up to four blocks, so even that is not a great option.

Danikat.8537:

Precursor collections are the result of all the discussions on a precursor scavenger hunt.

They weren’t supposed to make precursors cheaper or easier to get, only to give an alternative for people who don’t like the idea of buying one (or waiting for RNG).

Yet people are still stuck on the collections because of RNG built right into them. And while many would prefer the legendary quest route, they may lose interest when they realize the mats they’ve farmed could be sold to buy the pre off the tp without depending on the RNG of collections.

Collections are starting to seem little better than the mystic forge. Anet may not want crafting to be cheaper, but honestly they should have made it more achievement and adventure based. It could still take time and dedication without making you feel like you’re making a mistake farming mats and not selling them.

• Bound gives P/P and S/P much needed on demand stealth.
• Lotus synergizes well with condi D/D.
• Dash is amazing for mobility.
• DD has good bruiser traits useful for S/D and staff.
• Impacting disruption allows for interesting hybrid interrupt builds.
• We get enough flat endurance refill to make up for the vigor nerf.
• Daredevil runes + bound make soldier or valk much more viable.

Overall, we have much better build diversity, and some really interesting combos. Other classes are overtuned, but DD provides much more than just feline grace v2.0. I think the main thing that’s lacking on our end is base thief specs.

Pointers:

1. Use sinister, viper, or carrion for a hybrid. Mixing marauder and other condi stats is a bad idea.
2. Staff will do nothing for a hybrid. You don’t have enough direct damage for staff to shine, and the traits and utils work just as well if you take something else like P/D or SB that actually applies condis.
3. Distracing daggers is a poor hybrid choice unless running the interrupt traits.
4. Use the interrupt traits! They are perfect for a hybrid set.
5. X/P is a great choice when running interrupt traits. Try P/P with bound instead of staff.

Edit: formatting.

Give thief a try. You may regret falling in love with one of the least combat capable classes in the current meta, but you won’t regret falling in love with the coolest, most fun class in the game. Regardless of whether or not we’re viable, thief is still supremely enjoyable.

As a thief, I’ve done well with zerk gear, but I also run sinister/rampager and it performs well. There have been a couple of things that zerk didn’t handle well (probably because I’m a thief), and I swapped to dire to avoid getting melted. I think I could make soldiers or valk work. Zerk is definitely still very good though.

Edit: to elaborate, there’s a certain HP in AB with a vet mob that was near impossible on zerk (solo). I ran dire and did better, but it was still a challenge. Honestly that vet was harder than some champs.

Omne.4603:

Or, you could do the upgrades at a slower rate and take advantage of cheaper mat prices next year. Suggesting waiting or being patient is unpopular I realize, but none of this is that difficult to begin with.

Even with lower prices, it’s still a huge amount for a small five person guild. Farming is also a current option, but there is opportunity cost associated with spending the mats rather than selling them, and it’s a lot of work for few people. Also, patience is great, but telling a small guild to wait a year to catch up to large guilds is not great. Guild halls are a big feature of HoT and the upgrading process should be enjoyable, not overwhelming.

Clearly, scaling upgrade requirements would be abused (create a small guild, upgrade for cheap, add 500 members), so I present to you:

Guild Locking!

You can lock your guild at any time, which limits the number of new members you can add to 5 (i.e. a 10 person guild can now have a max of 15 members). You can pay mats/gold/other currency to add more maximum members or unlock the guild. Cost to add/unlock would be based on how many upgrades you have built and how many extra member slots you want. A locked guild allows scaled upgrade requirements, based on guild size.

Edit: lol the topic posted before I was done.

You’re doing it wrong. All I’ve done in HoT so far is explore and do things I consider enjoyable. I have my elite spec totally unlocked, made a good chunk of money from flax and other items I’ve come across, and I have most masteries I currently need. I have tagged a few events, but otherwise I haven’t even bothered with them. I did a couple of adventures, which were fun, solo’d some champs for hero points, etc.

You can grind if you want to, but I’d wager you’ll enjoy yourself much more if you treat it like an adventure game. If you play zelda, would you reload areas repeatedly to mow the grass for ten hours straight to make rupees? I sure hope not. Maybe you could afford everything in the game, but that’s not what it should be about.

Sword:
Stealth attack, pistol whip

Pistol:
Pistol whip, head shot

Staff:
Stealth attack

Steal:
Sleight of hand, mace head crack, skull fear

Utilities:
Tripwire, scorpion wire, ambush trap (thief may use scorpion wire), bandit’s defense, distracting daggers, fist flurry/palm strike

Elites:
Basilisk venom, thieves guild (thief uses scorpion wire), impact strike

And then you shoot at someone from above and your piercing bullets go straight into the ground. Or you shoot someone at 900 range and they don’t really pierce since piercing doesn’t improve range. It works ok on rangers with 1500 range, but that just won’t help us much. Still better than the current ankle shots though.