Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think too many people forget this. Probably because many play the game 40+ hours a week like it is a job.

sigh

So, why not give everyone everything for just simply logging in then?
It is not a job after all, thus everyone should just get everything from the start, right?

Yes Krall, lets give everyone everything and completely negate the entire reason to play what so ever. /sarcasm

Seriously, no one asked for, or even implied, that. Quit shoving words in other people’s mouths because you can’t comprehend the basic point being made.

This is exactly what people are asking for/ They want raids to be doable immediately upon hitting level 80 and getting exotic gear. This takes less than 30 hours of playing the game to get to this point.

Do you honestly think someone who just bought the game 2 weeks ago should be able to complete raids? Because the only thing that separates someone who bought the game 2 weeks ago from someone who bought the game 3 years ago is ascended gear, a solid guild, and experience.

It has already been established that the people in this thread think casual players should be able to beat raids, so there goes the experience part. It has already been said they should be able to pug them, so there goes the solid guild, and now people want it to be done in exotic gear.

So yes that is exactly what they are asking for, and it is absurd.

Torolan.5816:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I will say that if the encounters are tuned so finely that you need ascended gear to complete them then Anet’s raids are a failure before they even launch.

The terrible PvP focused balanced that has plagued PvE since launch is MUCH MUCH wider than the 12% dps difference between exotic and ascended.

The presence of 2 PS warriors in a group makes a 20% difference alone. That means 2 PS warriors will be required in every raid since that is more important than the stat difference.

Ele’s outdamage Necros/Rangers by ~20% DPS, if the encounters are tuned so finely that 12% gear difference is make or break then Ranger’s and Necro’s will have 0 chance of getting into raids.

Either balance needs to be redone or these raids are doomed from the get go.

Is that even a realistic option in the Bizarro Land of Minmax right now, rangers and necros in group content?

I already kind of sensed that raids will begin to eat their children very soon in the trinity thread, and this is the proof. Hillarious, really .^^

Well they still have 3 weeks to either bring the top classes down or the bottom classes up.

Lily.1935:

nearlight.3064:

Well considering axe has 900 range now I don’t see any reason why you’d want to run the old scepter over the new axe for a ranged somewhat underpowered power based weapon, just saying.

Why would I run axe over staff? That seems illogical.

Maybe because the word staff was never even used in the quoted post…

I will say that if the encounters are tuned so finely that you need ascended gear to complete them then Anet’s raids are a failure before they even launch.

The terrible PvP focused balanced that has plagued PvE since launch is MUCH MUCH wider than the 12% dps difference between exotic and ascended.

The presence of 2 PS warriors in a group makes a 20% difference alone. That means 2 PS warriors will be required in every raid since that is more important than the stat difference.

Ele’s outdamage Necros/Rangers by ~20% DPS, if the encounters are tuned so finely that 12% gear difference is make or break then Ranger’s and Necro’s will have 0 chance of getting into raids.

Either balance needs to be redone or these raids are doomed from the get go.

irrumatio.4893:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Honestly if you couldn’t be bothered to get ascended gear then you have no buisness being in a raid as you clearly aren’t serious about the game.

You aren’t serious about the game unless you spend 6 months gearing up! :^)

If it takes you 6 months to get ascended gear then you aren’t good enough to be doing raids. Maybe focus on improving your ingame efficiency before thinking about raiding.

No guild was going to take exotic geared players into their raids anyway.

Honestly if you couldn’t be bothered to get ascended gear then you have no buisness being in a raid as you clearly aren’t serious about the game.

zapv.8051:

The only problem now is LF gen on S/d. If you aren’t getting the skills off it is because your bad. L2P. The damage is also much better now in pvp. Also, they buffed grasping dead quite a bit, don’t know why people are saying it is weaker.

The trait should be changed to grant 180 condi damage and 20% condi duration for your group while wielding scepter. The base durations could go up maybe a second at most. Certainly not the whole 50%.

For scepter/dagger LF gen, we just need one change. Make enfeebling blood, and therefore weakening shroud, grant 3% LF per target hit. The suggestion to grant 4% LF per condi transferred on dagger 4 would be stupid OP btw.

If your enemy can’t avoid a 1.5s cast then I think the people you are playing against need to l2p actually… you can literally walk out of range of scepter 2. the 1s cast on scepter 3 is also a pretty easy tell that is pretty simple to block/dodge.

I don’t see how 4% per condition transferred would be OP. with a cap of 5 conditions that is max 20% LF on an easily avoided/blocked/reflected projectile on an 18 second CD. Compare that to main hand dagger which generates a guaranteed 8% LF every 2.1s. 4% per condition would be under powered imo.

You are doing something horribly wrong if you were running scepter as a power weapon.

I would recommend running Axe as your main ranged power weapon, you can also use staff, or DS. most power builds use DS as their primary ranged damage. Pair that with melee dagger/WH to get very higher LF generation.

Scepter is a purely condition damage weapon, its one broken skill was finally fixed.

maddoctor.2738:

Rasimir.6239:

maddoctor.2738:

Bomber.3872:

Even the most expensive pre’s cost less than 50% of a legendary. I don’t really understand why this thread is always shifted to the ‘I want it cheaper’ idea. Cheaper pre would mean cheaper legendary’s and we all now that anet since release never wanted to change that overall legendary price.

I’ll repeat one more time:
If selling the mats (means you went and played the fun part to get those mats, no skipping of the fun part) required to make a legendary earns you enough money to buy the precursor on the TP and then leave you with lots of extra gold, then what’s the point of this new system?

Having fun on the precursor journey?

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people around who enjoy traveling the world with a purpose in mind, collecting and crafting their own stuff, without caring about selling/rebuying for optimized coin gain.

Let’s say you don’t want to buy the precursor on the TP but instead you go on the fun journey to make the precursor yourself! You travel the world and complete various fun challenges, making the game much more fun and enjoyable in the process. The system works well so far.

Here is the tricky part, once you gather everything in order to craft your precursor, you realize that if you sell everything that is sellable, you will earn enough gold to buy the precursor and then have enough left-overs to begin a new one (!!!)

And to be a bit more exact, according to my calculations selling (not buying) all materials needed to craft the Colossus will net you ~400g, I used a lot of assumptions to reach that price but it doesn’t include the price to craft many of the items needed for the collection itself. For example, they tell us you will need to craft the container that will hold the oozes, you might need to craft the food for your ooze, and so on and so on. In other words, crafting the Colossus might well require materials that if you SELL them you will earn way more than 400g.

If all precursors are like that then the whole process is useless for any precursor that is worth below 400g. What’s the point in collecting materials that will give you 400g if the precursor itself is 200g, just sell the mats and BUY it instead of crafting it! The mats you got having fun and being on the journey btw.

But that’s the beauty of the free market. The time/mats to get Colossus was lower than the price of Colossus so you bought it. This means there is one less Colossus in the game now and you also didn’t create one. Now there are less on the TP, and the price is now 450g.

The next person thinks 450g is still cheaper than making it, leading the price to rise to 600g. Now someone sees that it is 600g and that is a lot more than it costs to do the scavenger hunt. They do the scavenger hunt and sell it for 550g. This price is still worth doing the hunt so someone else does it and sells it for 450g. Now we are back to stage one and it is cheaper to buy it again. This processes continues forever and regulates the price without any intervention.

Now we can apply this same concept to ALL the precursors and something even better happens.

Player 1 wants to make the legendary torch. The precursor is only 200g, but the cost to make it by the scavenger hunt is 400g. The most obvious solution is to just buy it. Player 1 is 200g poorer, but has the precursor. The less obvious and much better solution is to do the scavenger hunt for dusk which is selling for 1200g. It takes the same amount of time as the torch scavenger hunt, still costs 400g to make, but gives you 1200g when you are done. Now you put in the same amount of work as you would have for the torch, but you get the torch + 600g (1200-400-200), now you have your precursor and are 600g richer, which you can use to put towards the other components.

In addition the cost of dusk has now fallen to 1000g. But since this is the cheaper way to get the torch precursor the supply of torches starts to dry up and the price rises up to 400g. Meanwhile people keep making dusks to profit off them and dusk price falls down to 700g.

With this new system all precursors will eventually reach a much closer equilibrium point that floats around (mat cost) + (time cost), with the higher demand precursors being slightly above and the lower demand ones being slightly below.

The exception to this is the underwater precursors which no one wants which will continue to be valued at the random drop cost and not tied to either system.

OlliX.1705:

I also found out last night while doing fractals that you can block unblockable projectiles with it, such as Mai Trin cannon phase. That seems a bit broken, but I thought it was fun. :p

I believe you can do this with all projectile destructions. It isn’t a block, it actually destroys the projectile before it hits you.

mazut.4296:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well I tried it out in PvP last night, here was my experience:

Pretty much worthless in PvP compared to D/WH. The skills take so long to cast that I was dead before I finished casting a single skill for the most part.

The conditions were so short duration and took so long to cast that I rarely got more than 1 or 2 conditions to stick on an enemy at a time. They were either cleansed before my next cast or just fell off on their own without notice.

No one cares if you are putting 1 bleed stack a second on them. It would take like 20 minutes to kill someone that way. We either need to be putting 5 stacks a second on them, or they need to last 30 seconds, not 4.5.

Scepter 3 gives even less LF than before in every PvP situation I tried, so now it is even harder to get into DS.

Scepter 3 also only gives 2-3 stacks of torment at best in PvP due to the speed of cleansing, making it not so great as a burst.

I gave it 3 matches, but switched back to D/Wh after losing all 3 matches.

My experience was pretty similar. The overall pressure get much better with the use of skills like signet of spite and corruption boon, but the scepter by itself is still weak.
Skill 3 really feels better with the the torment, but the LF generation is next to nothing. It works a little bit better with WH, but the rest of the off hand weapons are worthless.
And I think the LF generation is the biggest weakness of this weapon.
If it gets decent LF and a little bit more bleed on auto attack it will be really useful and I will play with it.

I did try it with OH dagger, I think you are right in that WH would have been better. But yes, with the low pressure, low LF gain, and slow attacks it just isn’t really worth it still.

Sigmoid.7082:

4. Scepter 3- Torment is the nicest change to scepter, yet the duration is soooo short that even with lingering curse, 40% food, runes, and 10% utility duration I STILL CAN"T get 100% uptime… This is absurd to me. Double the duration at minimum.

I dont understand how with lingering curse, 40% food, runes and 10% duration you can get over 10s because with just 15% duration and lingering curses in pvp you get 7s.

Lingering curse makes it a base 6s. Just with 40% food you are at 8.4s. You only need another 27% condi duration to be at 10s. Sceptar skill bleed duration has the potential to reach 300% of base because of how lingering curses works. Can be easily seen because you can get 85% bleed duration in pvp and with lingering curses that puts your sceptar #1 kitten bleeds at 12.5s.

2. Scepter 2- unchanged due to lingering curse nerf

Grasping Dead: Increased damage by 14%. Increased bleeding duration from 7 seconds to 10 seconds

This means you went from 3 stacks of bleed for a maximum of 28s (7*2*2) to 3 stacks of bleed to a maximum of 30s (10*1.5*2). It got marginally stronger.

That’s great except you can’t get another 27% duration. You can get 10% from a utility and 10% from runes. The only exception is if you built entirely around torment and completely sacrificed bleeds and took runes of tormenting, but your dps would suffer significantly more that way. So you are stuck at 9.5s plus there is nearly a 1s cast (including animation and travel time) so you really need to hit 11s to get 100% uptime.

And yes scepter 2 got a tiny bit better, but scepter 1 got a tiny bit worse, working out to 0 change between them.

Hero points have nothing to do with skill points. They are completely separate things with no relation to each other.

You get 398 Hero Points from leveling. This is enough to unlock all the current skills and traits for your class.

There are an additional 213 hero points available by completing challenges in the world.

At level 80 every character with full world completion will have 213 hero points.

There have been no announcements about the number of hero points required to unlock masteries, and no announcement about hero points in HoT. Anything you have heard is just a baseless rumor, such as thief getting rifle or ele getting sword.

Well I tried it out in PvP last night, here was my experience:

Pretty much worthless in PvP compared to D/WH. The skills take so long to cast that I was dead before I finished casting a single skill for the most part.

The conditions were so short duration and took so long to cast that I rarely got more than 1 or 2 conditions to stick on an enemy at a time. They were either cleansed before my next cast or just fell off on their own without notice.

No one cares if you are putting 1 bleed stack a second on them. It would take like 20 minutes to kill someone that way. We either need to be putting 5 stacks a second on them, or they need to last 30 seconds, not 4.5.

Scepter 3 gives even less LF than before in every PvP situation I tried, so now it is even harder to get into DS.

Scepter 3 also only gives 2-3 stacks of torment at best in PvP due to the speed of cleansing, making it not so great as a burst.

I gave it 3 matches, but switched back to D/Wh after losing all 3 matches.

Relshdan.6854:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Note: all feedback is related to PvE. This is a raiding game now, time to balance it as such.

unfortunately, devs have made it clear they will never balance anything with pve in mind, if it might upset pvp in the slightest.
this is only reinforced by the very small/safe changes made to balance 2 or 3 times a year.

They really just need to split the balance. In one mode you are facing active defenses against enemies with 10-20k hp, while in the other mode you are facing no active defenses with 5-10 million hp. The two game modes have literally nothing in common except balance for some reason.

I had a few hours to try out the scepter changes and here is what I found:

Scepter 1: With the changes + Lingering Curse the changes work out to a small DPS loss. Faster ramp up time is not at all noticeable unfortunately in PvE. Enemies either die to direct damage burst too fast, or the fight is long enough that the slight change in ramp up time is not noticeable.

Scepter 2: Again with the changes + Lingering curse the changes work out to no change at all. Nothing changed here so nothing to say.

Scepter 3: Average LF gain went from ~15% down to ~12%. Not sure how 3 years of telling you that condition specs need more LF gain gets us a LF nerf…

Scepter 3: Torment is a good change. It allows us to get some more condition burst and slightly better dps. Unfortunately the up-time is not enough. Even with Lingering Curse + 40% food + 10% utility + 10% runes I was only able to get 90% uptime of this skill. Increase the base duration up 1 more second and the change will be perfect. Good dps boost and better overall skill.

Suggestions:

1. Give dagger 4 3% LF per condition transferred. This combined with Scepter 3 would give condition specs better LF generation.

2. Make the bonus of Lingering Curse baseline, and change lingering curse to 30% bonus duration for the whole group. This gives us a use in raids, gives us group utility, makes the trait worth taking, less boring, and brings our dps up to competitive levels in group PvE.

Note: all feedback is related to PvE. This is a raiding game now, time to balance it as such.

Lexan.5930:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well I had a few hours to play around with the changes (PvE) and here are my thoughts:

1. Scepter AA- doesn’t feel any different at all to me. Enemies either die in 5 seconds, so the faster ramp up time makes 0 difference, or enemies die in 2-3 minutes, and the ramp up time makes 0 difference.

2. Scepter 2- unchanged due to lingering curse nerf

3. Scepter 3- The loss of LF gain is just completely nonsensical to me. We need MORE LF gain, not less. No idea why this was done.

4. Scepter 3- Torment is the nicest change to scepter, yet the duration is soooo short that even with lingering curse, 40% food, runes, and 10% utility duration I STILL CAN"T get 100% uptime… This is absurd to me. Double the duration at minimum.

5. CPC- Love this change, this is the best buff of the patch

Other comments:

Disappointing that there were no changes to the curses line, no changes to corruptions, and no change to corruption master. These need a big overhaul before HoT hits.

100% torment uptime would be absurd. The ability to pop up to 6 stacks and have it crit and possibly add a bleed is fine, helps keep condi pressure on any target.

Why? Mesmer can do it, at higher stacks, with higher bleeds, and more direct damage, and access to group buffs, and stealth, and confusion.

So why?

lol most OP profession in the game complaining about a 33% damage buff…

Meanwhile necro’s scepter “buff” got us a net gain of 0% damage…

gg Anet.

Robert Gee.9246:

One of the reasons we are more conservative about axe when it comes to balance is because axe uses a unique attack action in our game that cannot be avoided using positioning. Normal melee attacks have an attack arc and normal ranged attacks use projectiles. Enemy players can use positioning and movement to avoid these attacks. Axe 1 and 2 by contrast just hit you when you are in range regardless of your positioning. While some utility skills (like Corrupt Boon) also use this targeting method, it’s rare on weapon skills and thus we are wary of buffing it too much.

As for the animation on axe 1, it was changed because of an exploit with cancel casting that allowed players to get significantly more damage from the skill by continually canceling it. At the time I tried to just adjust the original animation so we could keep it but due to its construction that ended up not being feasible. The resulting animation looked extremely choppy and didn’t sync well across races. You are always welcome to make suggestions on alternate animations you’d like to see, but going back to the original animation at this point is extremely unlikely.

These sound like PvP exclusive issues. I see no reason that Axe can’t be brought up to normal DPS numbers in PvE.

If this game has any chance of being a serious raiding game then you will need to start balancing around raids and PvE.

Well I had a few hours to play around with the changes (PvE) and here are my thoughts:

1. Scepter AA- doesn’t feel any different at all to me. Enemies either die in 5 seconds, so the faster ramp up time makes 0 difference, or enemies die in 2-3 minutes, and the ramp up time makes 0 difference.

2. Scepter 2- unchanged due to lingering curse nerf

3. Scepter 3- The loss of LF gain is just completely nonsensical to me. We need MORE LF gain, not less. No idea why this was done.

4. Scepter 3- Torment is the nicest change to scepter, yet the duration is soooo short that even with lingering curse, 40% food, runes, and 10% utility duration I STILL CAN"T get 100% uptime… This is absurd to me. Double the duration at minimum.

5. CPC- Love this change, this is the best buff of the patch

Other comments:

Disappointing that there were no changes to the curses line, no changes to corruptions, and no change to corruption master. These need a big overhaul before HoT hits.

I don’t understand how people can be happy with our scepter “rework” which gives us LESS lf and gives a net dps change of ZERO.

Literally nothing has changed, especially for PvE.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Odeezee.7362:

wtf is wrong with you people? sorry but can you not see that other than CPC now Blocking (the only actual buff to Necros btw) everything else is either reshuffling or a straight up nerf? PLEASE view these changes logically in the context of the game as a whole and NOT just in the context of Necros alone; we don’t get many buffs at all so all positive words without any actual substance seem like a buff to some Necros.

What? The only nerf here is that scepter AA needs to finish its combo chain to be at its old levels. However, it is a lot better untraited now. Otherwise they increased damage on 2, added torment on 3 (some LF loss), and straight buffed the axe, improved some QOL stuff and bug fixes. Please tell me what you’re referring to.

All the “buffs” were completely undone by the MASSIVE nerf to linger curse.

Net gain: 0, LF nerfed.

Stilgar.6437:

not as many things as i hoped for, its a very tiny balance patch. but what was implemented is pretty good imo. Scepter is better now (more bursty is better then condi duration), CPC is much better, axe changes are a good start (needs a lot more though). What i would like is LF generation on off hand dagger, Its the weapon with most scepter synergy but your LF generation is very bad. Dunno why dagger is the only offhand without LF skills. Adding some LF there would be huge to really bring scepter condi into meta pvp.

Good start, but there is lot of work still to be done.

Bursty AND duration is what we need. We shouldn’t have to debate which form of 30% less dps we have to take… we should be competitive in our dps.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Well if this had been the usual MMO’s all server would have been down for about 4-5 hours anyway. So GW2 is a lot better.

We already have to deal with server lag, frequent disconnects and slow download speeds in exchange for more server uptime. If we lose the server uptime then we are just left with slow laggy servers that disconnect people frequently…

Mad King Thorn help us if this is what it is going to be like for HoT launch…

Sarrs.4831:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Yeah I don’t understand the scepter changes… Scepter was behind about 30% dps wise.

So they buffed it 30%… then nerfed it 30%

What was the point?

So I never actually played with the scepter since Lingering Curse’s implementation but I thought it might have been because Lingering Curse was contributing to the condition duration cap?

Also I reckon it’s probably for the better because even if it did cap your condi duration Lingering Curse was an autopick and autopicks are not good to have. Since Lingering Curses is no longer so strong they can comfortably buff the base scepter if the changes they’ve made don’t raise its popularity.

It didn’t contribute to the condition duration cap. It increased the base duration of the scepter attacks.

Before changes → max 26 stacks of bleed, 4 stacks of poison, ~15% per skill 3

After Changes→ Max 26 stacks of bleed, 4 stacks of poison, ~12% LF per skill 3, 5 stacks torment

Overall we LOSE LF gain and gain 5 stacks of torment. This is assuming you have 40% CD food.

Not really what we needed imo. Dagger 4/5 needs a LF gain, and scepter durations need to go back up.

Inexplicable.4165:

I like almost all of these changes, but axe is still terrible and Curses remain to be our worst traitline. The Lingering Curse nerf is a bit too harsh.

Yeah I don’t understand the scepter changes… Scepter was behind about 30% dps wise.

So they buffed it 30%… then nerfed it 30%

What was the point?

Necromancer
Blood Bond: Fixed a bug that caused this trait to have an incorrect internal cooldown. Fixed a bug that prevented the actual healing values from matching those listed in the skill facts. This trait will no longer attempt to activate Lesser Signet of Vampirism if the player is either out of range or does not have a line of sight to the target.
Signet of Vampirism: Fixed a bug that prevented the actual healing values from matching those listed in the skill facts.
Corrosive Poison Cloud: Updated this skill to destroy projectiles that enter its area. Increased the poison stacks from 3 to 4 stacks and reduced their duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds. Decreased the duration from 12 seconds to 8 seconds. Increased the frequency pulses from every 3 seconds to every 2 seconds.
Rending Claws: Increased the range to 900. Increased damage by 10%.
Ghastly Claws: Increased the range to 900.
Unholy Feast: Decreased the recharge from 15 seconds to 12 seconds.
Signet of Spite: Fixed a bug that caused this skill to apply 1 stack of vulnerability instead of 5.
Blood Curse: Decreased the bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 4.5 seconds.
Rending Curse: Decreased the bleeding duration from 5 seconds to 4.5 seconds.
Putrid Curse: Increased the poison duration from 4 seconds to 6 seconds. Now also applies bleeding for 4.5 seconds.
Grasping Dead: Increased damage by 14%. Increased bleeding duration from 7 seconds to 10 seconds. Increased cripple duration from 5 seconds to 7 seconds. This skill is no longer split and applies 3 stacks of bleeding in all game modes.
Feast of Corruption: Now grants 8% life-force gain on hit, plus 1% per additional condition on the target. Now applies 2 stacks of torment for 4 seconds on hit, plus 1 additional stack per condition on the target. No longer deals bonus damage per condition. Bonuses cap at 5 conditions.
Lingering Curse: Decreased effectiveness of the condition-duration extension to 50%.
Lich Form: Updated this transformation to no longer destroy your active minions.
Plague Form: Updated this transformation to no longer destroy your active minions.
Vampiric Aura: Updated this skill to no longer be applied to allied objects such as WvW siege weapons.

Bad Wolf.1879:

Well it only took them less than 4 weeks sense my return after 2 years away to begin neutering my main class. Now I remember why I quit playing in the first place. It’s not balancing if your still screwing with things 3 years in.

That’s actually literally the definition of balancing… It would be much worse if they weren’t still making adjustments after only 3 years.

WoW does balance patches every 2-3 months for the last 10 years…

PyrateSilly.4710:

notebene.3190:

What does P4F mean?

Someone else said something about the ‘PU nerf not going far enough’. What’s PU?

P4F or F2P = Play for free or Free to play
PU or PUG = Pick up or Pick up group

PU is a super OP mesmer build and has nothing to do with pugs. When you get burst for 30k in 1s from stealth then congrats you were killed by a PU mesmer.

This balance patch seems like the first patch in quite some time that will actually restore some balance to the game. The IB nerf is amazing, ele and mesmer and being brought back down to earth with the rest of us mortals, and the lowest classes/builds are getting buffs to bring them up a bit.

I think we are actually moving towards balance for once.

Pelopidas.2140:

Silverkey.2078:

Bhawb.7408:

His videos at this point are on par with climate change deniers or creationists releasing “science” to “support” their opinions. His complete refusal to accept what our issues are right now serve only to hold us back by avoiding the actual source of our problems (and therein denying the changes we need) and instead blaming them on the “berserker meta” or people just not following his most recent build.

I do not think he denies our issues. He actually has videos explaining the problem with necromancer’s balance (for example the lack of scaling defenses).

His main problem with the “berserker meta” is not the berserker meta as such but those who blindly follows the metabattle “rules” without understanding the logic behind them or without acknowledging they are not good enough players to adhere to the “meta”.

He knows necro does less DPS than other classes “in ideal conditions” and has less (=almost none) direct support. But he also knows that the lower DPS comes with higher sustain (though with the problem of lack of active/scalable defense) which is why necro is pug-friendly and can out-DPS other classes if not in ideal situation.

Again, I just think he insults so much everyone we could forget what is his message.

This, this is so true, please can we all agree to that.

@Zudet Also, there you go:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reasons-the-Necromancer-is-bottom-tier/first#post5279012

I’m not seeing the wrong part? You claimed that necro was a condition burst class. That claim as horribly laughable and I showed you the math to back it up. You responded in your typical manner with personal insults and no reply of substance.

With the development of the cele signet build we can actually burst using other peoples conditions pretty good now, though our own condition burst is still terrible.

Of course the devs know that I am right, hence the upcoming condition changes to give necro significantly faster ramp up and a burst condition move, hopefully ending this problem once and for all.

I will continue fighting for necros to help correct our class. I fought for 2 years to get conditions fixed, and a number of months to get our condition burst up to reasonable levels. Both of these have been addressed. We have gone from completely unviable to viable but not optimum.

Now I will continue to fight against uninformed people until our overall condition dps is brought up to the correct level, and our group utility is brought up to acceptable levels. With the introduction of raids and reaper I have high hopes that my mission will be complete before the end of the year.

Lily.1935:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Pelopidas.2140:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It is true though that there are scrub players out there who hate on the class. So i dont find anything wrong showing these people that we dont suck like they think. I really dislike not seeing a meta necro build in metabattle, and im sure the devs have decided against buffing necromancer dps for reasons random whiners in forums don’t know (including me). And this has been discussed to death, its not the damage, its the content that doesnt fit our support options, which are also a bit lacking…(soft cc like chill-cripple, fear blinds, lots of vuln.)

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

@ZudetGambeous – Inb4ModBan: 80% of your comments are about how useless necro is, how he sucks at everything etc (remember when you were saying condi necro does like 3k dps…). And the funny thing is your trash talk gets corrected everytime yet you keep your kittenposting.

If the best you can do is reference my dps calculation from before the condition damage changes then I’m not too worried lol. I’ve yet to be corrected on anything, everything i’ve said is or was at the time true.

Except before the condi damage changes the necromancer’s condi DPS was higher than 3k then as well… So.. You being wrong now makes you less wrong then??? 3k is just from the bleeds. This didn’t include the burning, your base damage, the poison, torment and terror. I’m not saying the condi rotation before was fantastic. But it’s average was closer to 5 or 6k in sinisters.

Please show me where I said this? My calculations were correct for the time. Feel free to show me where I made a mistake in my calculations but quoting my entire post.

Good luck

Pelopidas.2140:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It is true though that there are scrub players out there who hate on the class. So i dont find anything wrong showing these people that we dont suck like they think. I really dislike not seeing a meta necro build in metabattle, and im sure the devs have decided against buffing necromancer dps for reasons random whiners in forums don’t know (including me). And this has been discussed to death, its not the damage, its the content that doesnt fit our support options, which are also a bit lacking…(soft cc like chill-cripple, fear blinds, lots of vuln.)

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

@ZudetGambeous – Inb4ModBan: 80% of your comments are about how useless necro is, how he sucks at everything etc (remember when you were saying condi necro does like 3k dps…). And the funny thing is your trash talk gets corrected everytime yet you keep your kittenposting.

If the best you can do is reference my dps calculation from before the condition damage changes then I’m not too worried lol. I’ve yet to be corrected on anything, everything i’ve said is or was at the time true.

Iason Evan.3806:

I’d love to see an official link for the armor pieces themselves dropping. That just doesn’t seem like ArenaNet’s M.O. I would think we’d get a recipe drop and then be able to spend a ton of time gathering stuff to craft it. Legendary items have never been drops. It’d be an interesting change indeed.

When we talk about legendary armor, we are talking about the precursors, not the final items. Only the armor precursors drop in raids. There are a couple key points about what actually drops:

1. The actual precursor- This is the worst possible output, as it means you could loot 50 precursor boots and never get any glove precursors.

2. A currency to exchange- This is better as it avoids the situation above, but it opens up a new problem with people farming the first boss over and over, to get the full set even if they can’t clear the raids.

3. A token to exchange- This is how most MMO’s do it and hopefully how GW2 does it as well. You get a “boot or glove token” as a drop which can be exchanged for either a boot or a glove precursor. However it can not be exchanged for a chest precursor, as the “leg and chest token” only drops for a different wing of the raid that is much further along (probably the final boss).

Solution 3 solves most of the problems and helps keep a logical progression. I.E. bosses 1 and 2 drop glove/boot precursor tokens. Bosses 3 and 4 drop shoulder and helm precursors and bosses 5 and 6 drop leg/chest precursors.

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It was my understanding that this was already how it was set up. Each boss only drops a specific piece of the armor. You will need to beat all the bosses to get all the different pieces.

New raids in the future would drop new legendary skins.

We shall know for sure on Friday/Saturday, but i’m fairly certain this is how it works already. You won’t just be able to farm the first boss over and over for your legendary armor.

Blaine Tog.8304:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

I don’t think that this is really fair to him. As I understand it, he was challenged to get below 10 minutes and did just that. Additionally, the way he did it (with wolves) was less efficient than the way others have done it, not more. His time was then (coincidentally) beaten by a profession and build that has every advantage in this situation.

It isn’t the world record, but it doesn’t need to be to prove his point. Not everyone can solo the Mossman at Scale 50, and I’d venture a guess that most people who can couldn’t beat his time regardless of their profession. He’s (explicitly) not saying this proves that the Necromancer is the best profession, just that this particular build can do a pretty good job in this particular scenario if the player is sufficiently skilled. I really don’t see how anyone could object to that conclusion.

Nemesis certainly goes overboard with the sass to the point of rudeness in some of his videos, but this one is really just impressive.

His video doesn’t prove or show anything of interest. He took some wildly out of context rebuttals to his previous poorly done video, made up his own ideal scenario to “disprove” them, and then showed us something else without any value.

It’s fine that necro can solo mossman, and if that was his accomplishment then great, he did a good job at that! But that isn’t what his video is even about. His last video went on and on and on about how buffing wasn’t important and necros did so much damage compared to PS warriors, then proceeded to show his awesome dps always in a group with a PS warrior buffed out the wazzoo.

People told him that buffing was what was causing his dps to be so high, and that a full dps warrior could easily out dps him and his dps would be much lower without all that buffing. Also he talked a lot about sustained dps but only showed his lich form burst dps.

To top it all off his amazing super dps build wasn’t even used in this video since he needed to be much more tanky to survive.

The fact that there are less wolves which let him get a new “record” that is 2 minutes slower than the warrior record has nothing to do with dps, but everything to do with ability to kite and tank damage, which necros are known to be good at, yet have no purpose in group settings, hence why speed run damage clears are done without the wolves to show a classes damage potential not its solo tankiness.

Finally everyone says that the engineer beat his time by 2 minutes because he can attack without targeting anything…. yet 7 of nemesis’s 10 skills are ground targeted and don’t need a target to hit and made up the vast majority of his damage, so that argument is just absurd.

Edit: even the devs know that necros dps is low, hence why scepter is getting buffed tomorrow. I would actually be interested in the post buff mossman solo to see if it can get closer to the other classes times dps wise. That would actually be a more informative video if nemesis is actually interested in helping the necro community and not just generating page views.

JoaoFA.8475:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

You didn’t see his video. You remind me of current republicans in the USA, talking like that without even seeing the video.

Yet you fail to point out what was wrong with my statement…

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

All this speculation and complaining is probably going to be for naught. Once the new account bound legendary weapons and armor are introduced I suspect the vast majority of people will abandon the current ones in favor of those. They can’t be bought, they must be earned, they will be new skins utilizing 3 years of design improvements, and they will have people playing the new HoT content instead of the same old boring Tyria content they have been for 3 years.

The effect on the economy will be minimal at best imo, and the much greater trends will be determined by what drops in these new zones and what is needed for the new precursors/legendary weapons.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

We have 4 weeks until the launch of HoT! We were told there would be the following information revealed before launch:

1. Legendary weapon blog
2. Legendary weapon Twitch presentation
3. Guild Hall leveling Info
4. Druid presentation
5. BWE 3+4
6. Info on legendary armor
7. Info on raid rewards
8. Info on raids in general
9. Launch trailer (tomorrow!)
10. Specialization runes/sigils

We should be getting the druid presentation today and tomorrow, and I suspect a BWE next weekend, but how about the other info? Looks like it’s going to be a busy 4 weeks!

I’m personally most excited for the legendary weapon info, can’t wait to see what we get.

If I missed anything they told us they’d talk about before launch let me know and i’ll add it to the list.

Well we got info on 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9. Pretty good! And they told us we’d be getting 1/6 before HoT launch.

Should be an exciting 3 weeks. Plus with raids this weekend we will have all the info on raids we could ever want.

mazut.4296:

Rym.1469:

Falcon.8713:

sendaf.8375:

How is an additional bleed added to the auto attack change going to change anything? Scepter still won’t compete with burn stack. These changes are decent but not drastic enough to make scepter compete in PVP.

They can cut bleed duration without much effect. THe bleeds usually get cleared long before you hit a critical mass with them. Or you are burst down before you can complete an auto attack chain

Just wait for more burning nerfs

Deep inside, I expect some small Burning scalling re-balancing and buffs to Bleeding/Poison/Torment

yeah :/ Which leads again to the separation of pve and pvp skills…

one can dream…

Elena.3642:

Let’s chill, everyone, and just wait for complete patch notes on Tuesday. And THEN we can complain.

That’d be great if Anet did balance patches more than once every 9 months. If we don’t get it changed by Tuesday then the next chance to change it is 9 months from now.

Sigmoid.7082:

The only way I can see this weapon being competitive in PvE is if the following happens:
1. add an additional bleed to the scepter
2. Increase bleed back to 0.075 scaling, it is just pathetic at 0.06.

3. Mobs have extremely high toughness
4. Mobs have phases that they are immune to physical damage all together/reflect physical damage.
5. Damage is less readily available because of the need for other stats so you dont get blown up as “zerk meta wont cut it anymore”. Condi damage takes 1 stat and physical damage takes 3.

Forced gimmicks and incorrect information don’t help anyone.

Condition damage takes 3 stats, condition damage, condition duration, and precision. It is worse than direct damage in that it scales more slowly, takes longer to apply, and can be removed before the damage is applied.

Tried out the site, doesn’t even report correct character stats, pretty useless for a gear checker. The economic stuff is useful though.

Well after sleeping on this I have decided these changes aren’t that great. Condition users in PvE do only 60% of the dps of direct power users in ideal circumstances and usually 40-50% of the dps due to cleanses, and ramp up time.

This “buff” increases our overall dps by less than 10%. The only way I can see this weapon being competitive in PvE is if the following happens:

1. add an additional bleed to the scepter
2. Increase bleed back to 0.075 scaling, it is just pathetic at 0.06.

This is probably the last balance change before raids, and right now condition users have no place.

Angel de Lyssa.4716:

MethaneGas.8357:

Holy kitten….

This will buff condi Necros…… A LOT. Scepter is already pretty decent (or at least it used to be) when you chained the auto attack… with the additional bleed (which will scale from stuff like Krait Runes and Barber Precision)… the DPS should be quite nice. And then the Torment…
Krait Runes + Torment Sigil + Tainted Shackles + Feast of Corruption… 12 Torment…. here I come

Corruptive Poison Cloud will be really nice now too, especially on Reaper… I managed to get 22 Poison stacks when using it on Reaper and spin-to-win. At least some good news after seeing Druid…

x12 torment… and inflict a fear with the trait “terror” (fear doing dps) = op, but then you add the reaper specialization, when you inflict fear, also inflict chill, but chill with the trait “deathly chill” doing dps (more dps with enemy 50% life o less) = more more op, and finally, you use epidemic and makes aoe.

OP is a bit of a stretch…

12x torment + terror + deathly chill (assuming 1800 condi damage)=

1900 torment ticks (while moving) + 720 terror ticks + ~700 chill ticks (below 50%)

= 3300 dps, over a max of 2s fear = 6600 damage that can be cleansed. It’s pretty good, but when the meta builds can burst you for 25k in 1.5 seconds I wouldn’t say it is OP by a long shot. If they stun break or have stab, or are imobed, or just not moving then that drops down to ~2300 dps or less, lower than some classes auto attacks.

With a 50% damage decrease It is STILL one of the highest damage skills in the game… that should tell you how absurd it was before. It will still be used the same as it is now.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

The change in lingering curse only decrease condi necro’s bleed by 30-15% tbh, since the same traitline already increase bleed duration by 20% and condi necro generally run nightmare for 15% condi duration and fear damage. Even more negligible in WvW/PvE situations due to food but power dominated there anyway.

Lingering Curse affects the base duration of the Scepter conditions, meaning condition duration works off of the new value.

For example, on live, the 5 second base Bleeds we currently have on Scepter become 10 second base Bleeds . But now is when bleed duration gets applied, so with Lingering Curse, you currently get 14 second bleeds on the auto.

This will get nerfed kinda kitten duration, but maybe the extra bleed stack will make up for it.

It just makes up for it. Auto attack will see a quicker ramp up but the exact same peak dps. Probably better for PvP, really no change for PvE. We get the torment now which is great.

I’m hoping that there are more changes they aren’t telling us because scepter dps is just soooo far behind top tier dps that I can’t see how they would just leave it like that.

Silverkey.2078:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Is it more than one stack on the final hit? Dulfy has it as just a single extra stack.

With the duration decrease it works out to a wash.

Currently:
2 stacks of bleed every 1.5 seconds, or 1.333 stacks/s. Base 5s duration, 100% from runes/minor/food + 100% from LC = 20s duration. This means you max out at 26 stacks from auto attack.

After balance patch:
3 stacks of bleed every 1.5s or 2 stacks/s. Base duration kitten , 100% increase and 50% from LC = 13.5s duration. This means you max out at 27 stacks from auto attack.

This is a pretty useless change unless I am missing something. Scepter is still crap dps.

You are missing that scepter 3 gets 2 to 7 stacks torment. And that they didn’t announce all changes for the scepter so scepter 2 may also get some buffs.

Oh I love the scepter 3 changes, those are great. I just think that scepter is not competitive dps wise. Bleeds are still weak.